DHS Official Considered Shock Collars For Air Travelers 673
"The Washington Times is reporting that the DHS wants to replace your boarding pass with a GPS-enabled shock bracelet. Plans for the device include subduing passengers remotely as well as onboard interrogation. There's even a promotional video."
Perhaps Paul Ruwaldt (the official named in this story) has been watching "The Coneheads" a bit too much, or not actually flying enough. Expressing interest is not quite the same as ordering mass quantities, but it's scary enough.
Dangerous slide (Score:5, Interesting)
Flying into this country is becoming more and more of a hassle [utah.edu] and every time that I fly outside the US, it is apparent that the DHS is completely corrupting business and pleasure travel at the expense of our freedoms and economy.
If our government seriously thinks this is a viable option, then we have truly lost and the slide towards a fascist government will be complete. Yeah, go waaaay beyond "papers please" and treat *all* of your citizens as criminals when they travel.
What I suspect will happen is that this is a trial idea floated to the media and will be explained away as saying "Oh, well.... we intended this to be used for transporting criminals" or some such nonsense like that. This idea is one of the most absurd and dangerous ideas I've heard from my government in a long time and it moves us dangerously close to a threshold that will destabilize this country.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
So TSA's main job now is justifying their job.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not completely sure why the fear level is so high in American culture, but I'd hazard to guess that it's the result of a combination of being too used to being too comfortable and too safe too much of the time - similar to tyrant's paranoia - and the fact that the media and the current administration both cultivate fear (for different reasons).
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Interesting)
The fear level in American culture is, as Noam Chomsky puts it, "off the scale."
The weird thing is that I don't feel afraid (and I travel frequently) and I don't know anyone who is really afraid. Where are all of these scared people ? Who are they ? More importantly, do we know that the above statement is really true, or is it just what we are told ?
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
Where are all of these scared people?
They are in the government, and they are scared of getting their budget cut, so they keep a constant state of fear in motion to grease the wheels of spending and reduction of freedom.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not so much that people go around wearing body armor in case some evil foreign-seeming type terrorist blows himself up in the local Starbucks. It's that nobody really protests when government officials say that such a scenario is A) actually plausible and B) can be prevented if we throw out just a couple of tiny little freedoms or spend vast amounts of money on whatever it is they're trying to sell. I have quite a few American friends, and except for a few, most tell me "it's worth it if it prevents another 9/11" whenever we discuss things like the TSA's idiocy, or illegal wiretapping, or whatever it is that goes on at Gitmo, etc.
I would call that a form of fear, though I haven't had much sleep so I'm probably just not coming up with whatever the better word for it is.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
I wish I could mod you up higher than 5. Eisenhower warned us about the military-industrial complex, and we did not listen.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm right here. And I'm scared to death. Of my government.
Years ago, I laughed off an idea like this (tasers strapped to all air passengers). Surely, I said, no one would seriously consider this -- passengers would decline to travel rather than strap on one of these things.
How wrong I was. It seems that no idea is so evil that it can't find a proponent in my government. Fsck me.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
I used to work with several guys from an Air National guard base.
One year they were way under budget, and the commander bought nearly 80 $50 leathermans for his ground crews. They didn't need them, each one was listed as a tool for the their tool boxes but in reality each tool was walked home and a gift to each of the guys.
you never come in under budget in a government job. doing so means next years budget will be slashed to that amount minus 10%.
Re:Using up the Budget (Score:3, Interesting)
I spent a few years in the Canadian Military, and we have the same mindset up here. Every year my unit was allocated $X for purchasing rounds for the range. During the first Gulf War, my unit was deployed to the Middle East (and I sadly didn't get to go). When our range qualification time came up, they had us (about 20 out of 250 or so troops) drive out to the range, and then fire off enough rounds to account for the entire unit qualifying - even though they were deployed to a *war* - because otherwise next
Re:They are your average uneducated citizens (Score:4, Insightful)
is that so mad? I remembe catching a train out of london that day, and being a bit nervous about the whole 'being in a packed capital city that jet airliners fly over every minute' until I got home (out of London)
It's easy to forget the uncertainty of that day. The first plane was an accident, the second and some heavy shit was going down. By the time I saw footage of the pentagon covered in smoke and rubble, I was on the phone wanting to speak to my family. Once a military icon like the pentagon is on fire, its not too many steps to see a nuke being lobbed at Afghanistan in response, and it all going haywire from then on.
Thank fuck it didn't go that way, but I don't blame anyone for feeling jittery on the day.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Interesting)
Way back in the late 70's (or early 80's maybe, I forget) I and several of my friends set up a couple of Dobsonian telescopes in my grandmother's backyard. A half-hour or so later a police car pulls up and two cops get out and come around to the back to ask whats up?
They'd gotten calls that "Suspicious looking people" were setting up "mortars" aimed at the city.
Yes it really happened.
It turns out one of out neighbors had issues with my grandfather and was trying to use the cops as his private thugs. He came out pointing with the classic waving finger prattling on about hippies and pipe bombs and such.
There are a lot of unstable people out there and we are currently dealing with two political parties who both seem convinced that more govt. power is needed. It is now useful for govt. to use these people to shoehorn it's new policies into place.
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Just responding to reinforce your situation. I have a 10" solid tube dob (Orion XTi) that I would set up on the campus of the university where I worked on clear nights.
One such night, a university cop pulled up and asked what I was up to. He didn't seem alarmed, but made a off-hand comment as he left, saying that it looked like I was sighting in a mortar.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Where are all of these scared people?
Actually, I think I found them the other day. Now, I need to preface this by saying that I grew up in a rural area near a college town-- I now live in a city. The girlfriend and I went for a weekend in the mountains. It was mostly peaceful, except for when we went for a jog. 10 minutes into the run, and we discovered that the dirt road we chose was basically un-runnable. Every hundred yards or so, some person's big, snarling guard dog would race out of a no-trespassing-staked-yard, barking like mad, w
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:4, Interesting)
do we know that the above statement is really true, or is it just what we are told ?
I think you already have the answer - GP cites the opinion of Noam Chomsky as his evidence. So, we're all scared because Noam said so.
Where are all of these scared people ?
Living inside Noam Chomsky's rich imagination, apparently.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Conservatives/Fly-Over People (Score:4, Insightful)
None. Now. if you had asked how many people are willing to let the gov't snoop into their neighbors lives and bedrooms, then lots.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
Just remember, the only thing we have to fear is...
Um...
Well, is our government it seems.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
Here is an example [wikipedia.org] of how fearless we were. This one [wikipedia.org] was approved by the same administration that said we have nothing to fear...
I dig the fangs and the blood-drenched knife. Where are my posters of Muslims with blood-drenched swords to keep me awake at night??
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
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At least during WWII, there was something to actually fear; the world was at war. This fear of terrorism is a joke.
Very insightful, during WWII there were a lot of German submarines outside the east coast, and there were also a few Japanese outside the west coast of the US.
Using aircrafts as tools for terrorism is probably no longer a feasible issue, the idea behind terrorism is just to kick in when least expected. Give it 10 more years and we shall start to worry because then every mistake made in security will repeat itself.
Worry more about all the containers arriving from other countries. A large-scale destructio
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
American culture doesn't have this level of fear. Nobody I know of has cut short travel plans because of the terrorism threat, though I imagine some people have. Nobody I know of thinks TSA is making air travel safer.
This whole fear thing has been manufactured by the government as an excuse to remove our civil liberties.
Don't ever EVER think that the American people are demanding it. We're not. This is being done TO us, not FOR us.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
I stopped flying specifically because of the TSA restrictions, NOT the fear of terrorist hijackings and bombings. I refuse to be treated like cattle by the airlines and shoved into a tiny tin can after being accosted by glorified mall security guards for hours at a time. They're making it as inconvenient as humanly possible to fly in this country these days and frankly, if I need to travel I'll just drive. If I can't drive somewhere and a ship is infeasible then I really don't need to travel there.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
Nobody I know of has cut short travel plans because of the terrorism threat,
I suspect far more people cut travel plans short because of the TSA.
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I agree with you -- it's not average Americans who are doing this. Average Americans are going WTF??
But the media has discovered that fear makes a good eyeball magnet, and they're all about selling eyeballs to advertisers. So the more they can convince us we're in fear of [insert bogeyman here] the richer the media outlets become.
And the younger generation of yuppies who've never lived outside their city cocoons are already half-afraid of anything unfamiliar (in much the same way little kids are often afrai
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I wasn't clear enough in my original post, and I didn't give the context for the Chomsky quote. Policy and culture are two different things. Yes, it may be true that the government response to terror is not commensurate with the actual level of fear that Americans feel. But the actual level of fear Americans feel is vastly higher than that felt by people of any other culture. That is what Chomsky was talking about, and if you've ever spent any appreciab
Sorry to burst your bubble, but.. (Score:4, Insightful)
I live in the southeast.
The region is packed full of these "scared people".
The flags on display here remind me very much of the prevalence of the swastika in nazi germany, and people here think bush is the next best thing since apple pie.
Interestingly and predicatbly enough, a large number of these people are also creationist, and in the past couple years a so called "psychic" on a nearby road bulldozed her tar paper shack and built a 6000 square foot mc-mansion because her business has taken off so much.
This region is where things like kinoki foot pads get shipped to by the train-full.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm not completely sure why the fear level is so high in American culture, but I'd hazard to guess that it's the result of a combination of being too used to being too comfortable and too safe too much of the time
I believe it has more to do with centuries of knowing with absolute certainty that there were two stonking great oceans between you and the rest of the world. That has tended to make you feel that the rest of the world can screw itself up and you'll be fine. For quite some time that was true too.
Until 9/11 no-one had attacked American soil (as in the continent, not counting Hawaii here), aside from that poor woman who got killed by those Japanese balloon bombs in WW2.
You were, not to put to fine a point on
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I suspect that an attack by the British in 1812 doesn't really count as making people able to cope with risks in the modern world on a day to day basis.
Anyway, if you guys had just knuckled under and bought the damn Tea, I'm sure none of this would be happening...
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I agree with your conclusion, but not your reasoning. I think it is time that Americans (and I am one) wake up and realize that anyone, anywhere, anytime can be killed, intentionally or by accident. Put MORE fear into the bastards. It's kind of like the kids who grow up washing their hands every two seconds for fear of germs. When they finally do go outside they have chronic asthma and allergies and god knows what other health problems. All because their immune systems are overwhelmed by never being ex
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What was it... Southpark or Team America? Anyway, did you see the scene where the bunch of scared white guys (in funny hats) leave England, come over to the US, find themselves surrounded by friendly natives and, being scared white guys, shoot them all?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Why? These politicians keep getting reelected. A revolution would be needed to fix the system. The system is working fine, the people are getting the government they want.
I prefer to think of democracy as two sheep and a wolf voting on what's for lunch. So you end up with
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Amen, brother. Don't even get me started on not carrying 100ml of fluid or taking my shoes off at the security gate. Forget Loose-Change style "Bush did it" conspiracy theories, Al Qaeda is probably a puppet of the security companies.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless the passengers are taken out by shock bracelets. Good job, TSA!
Your Agonizer, Komrade!! (Score:5, Interesting)
This technology is well-understood and widely available -- the canine shock collar first came into use in the 1950s. Today's models are highly refined, capable of variable shocks from "barely a tingle" to "FRY". (Note: as a professional dog trainer, this falls into my area of expertise.)
Setting aside the "Your agonizer, Komrade!" aspects for the moment... how much will this cost us in tax dollars? How many passengers are in the air at any one time, at a wild-assed guess about 50,000?? The most basic canine unit costs about $200, but that one won't be sufficiently reliable or securable for airline use, nor does it have enough range for a large terminal, so let's upgrade to the $700 unit (which has a range of up to one mile under ideal conditions). That's $35 million just to purchase the units.
[And the average lifespan, in daily use, is about 3 to 5 years, then it's off to The Collar Clinic, which charges about 30% of the value of the collar for repairs.]
As to hackability -- this has been a problem since way back; one of the design challenges was ensuring that the transmitter from one collar didn't make another go off by mistake. And there are only so many radio frequencies available, and that too is old tech.
If I were bent on causing chaos on a plane, I wouldn't even get on board myself. I'd hide a scanning transmitter in the luggage, which would start transmitting "FRY" across the spectrum at random intervals. Passengers would never know who was going to get shocked next, or when the next shock was coming. Wouldn't that do wonders for air travel! (Encrypted signal required, you say? Okay, I'll just set my trigger to hit the electronics AFTER the decryption point.)
These devices are generally safe, as they are designed to be painful yet harmless. But someone with a weak heart or epilepsy could be in big trouble -- on FRY the shock is similar to a weedburner-type electric fence; it'll put you right on your ass. Even on "tickle", what happens to someone wearing a pacemaker??
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yep... so explain to me again how this will stop anyone from executing their nefarious plans??
And no need to prepare; just pull out your hanky, or get some toilet paper from the commode, and shove it under the contacts.
Re:Your Agonizer, Komrade!! (Score:4, Insightful)
While what you say is correct... in the current climate of eroding personal rights and increasingly invasive government, I think discussion of how gov't agencies COULD get out of hand is a useful exercise, in that it gets people thinking about the "What if" aspects, and how both current and potential gov't (mis)behaviour can impact their everyday lives. What could we do if the situation came to pass? How would it be implemented? how much will it cost us in tax dollars? what alternatives would we have? Better yet, how could we prevent it? In California, sometimes the best way to halt stupid legislative ideas is to show the costs (including failure of revenue) to the Appropriations Committee.
Far from being mental masturbation, this is good exercise for sheeple not accustomed to thinking in terms of how good technologies can become bad policies. And f protest rises against even a nonexistent erosion of our rights, it serves as notice to those we elect and appoint that this is not acceptable to the Citizenry, and if they do have any such thoughts, they'd best rethink 'em.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
There will never be another hijacking of a plane with americans on it. The shock/terror value was in the fact that it hadn't been done or talked about to the extent that it happened that day. Now that we all know, the terrorists lose the "shock/terror" value and must move on to some other thing. If you reveal what their plan is, it defuses 99% of the shock value, which is why i support reporting on any given terror plot, no matter how unlikely, because once it's out there, the public knows about it and t
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I think it's the randomness of it that scares people, not the novelty and shock value.
For example, the suicide bombings in Israel are neither novel nor particularly shocking, but the factor of "Oh shit, this could have happened to my family" is what gets to most people.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
There will never be another hijacking of a plane with americans on it.
Exactly. That's why all four planes were hijacked in the same hour. Flight 93's reaction ("it's them or us") is now the default.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:4, Informative)
I am pretty damn sure that screaming something about Allah and then trying to take over a plan is going to be a good solid way to be torn limb from limb for a couple of decades. The only way I could possibly conceive of hijacking a plan in the US now would be actually be the plane's pilot from the beginning. Even if you could overcome the passengers by having enough men armed with guns to kill the majority of able bodied people before they tear you limb from limb, that still won't save you from the fact that US pilots are now taught to do very unpleasant things if some asshole tries to break into the reinforced doors or starts shooting a gun (the only conceivable way of subduing an airplane full of people).
Even if you had half a dozen men with guns they slipped by security, the pilot is going to have you sitting on the ceiling the second he hears a gun go off. If he wants to be a real dick, he can also see how long you can go without oxygen by depressurizing the airplane, all the while tossing you from one end of the airplane to the other.
Can planes be blown up? Sure. Can they be used as cruise missiles? Sure, but it isn't going to happen on a commercial airliner any time soon. If it happens again, it will be because someone smuggled themselves aboard a FedEx plane and shot the pilots before they knew what was happening.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Funny)
Wrong!
If they put a shock collar on me, I'd blow the damn plane up on general principle.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
With these devices it would seem far more likely to happen. All you'd need to do is hack the system that controls the bracelets and you've just subdued the entire passenger compliment. This seems like a massively stupid idea.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The truth is that another hijacking is unlikely to happen.
Maybe, but a recent survey [maybethiswillwork.com] (a kiosk at Smithsonian Air & Space - July 4, 08) says that out of 29,319 people, 11,300 believe that the current airport screening process should be more stringent than it is.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
That's right, keep the conspiracy flying.
I don't think the passengers had time to watch the news, call their families, and say goodbye.
Right. Because the recorded phone messages of flight attendants and some of the passengers are completely fabricated. The families made them up after the plane went down to gain sympathy.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:4, Interesting)
What conspiracy ? Given a choice between shooting down a plane and killing everyone onboard or letting some lunatic ram it into a building, killing everyone onboard anyway and lots of people besides them, which would you choose ? Cold-hearted, perhaps, but also the path of least corpses.
BTW. Is the edit box in this section supposed to be postal stamp -sized ?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Dude, that's a pretty scary illogical leap.
The question of what I might choose, or you might choose, in a hypothetical scenario is irrelevant to the matter of what actually happened. Even if I agree arguendo that it could be justified, that is not in any way evidence that that
My work here is done (Score:5, Funny)
I found the problem with your post.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Insightful)
And any pilot with half a brain knows that a cabin full of dead people is still better than a plane and building full of dead people.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I predict a great future for video conferencing companies.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, go waaaay beyond "papers please" and treat *all* of your citizens as criminals when they travel.
Why stop at travel? Why not just have everyone wear these all the time? You'd probably have to randomly test-shock people to deter tampering, but hey, such is the price you pay for Freedom. Er.. Liberty? No, what was it the US government always swore to defend, again?
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, go waaaay beyond "papers please" and treat *all* of your citizens as animals when they travel.
There. Fixed that for you.
Re:Dangerous slide (Score:4, Insightful)
From an "evolutionary" standpoint,this is probably the beginning of the end for "big birds" and large long flights.
Fuel is an issue as well as alternative travel options,now we have DHS. I admire their enthusiasm but they lack in the brains dept.
I predict that the small aircraft industry and charter flights is gonna boom because of the added aggravation.
Big birds can't get any lighter without using toilet paper in place of aluminum and fuel costs are already killing the industry. I predict people will drive long distances now in silly little cars or motorcycles.Tents will replace campers.
People will chose comfort and peace of mind over cost and aggravation any day of the week.
So long 747,I might see you flying across oceans now and then,but your days are numbered.
I'm all for it (Score:4, Funny)
I don't understand why (Score:5, Insightful)
What I suspect will happen is that this is a trial idea floated to the media and will be explained away as saying
These kinds of proposals aren't random; by making ridiculous suggestions like this, they move the boundaries of what is acceptable. Compared to shock collars, some of the other things they come up with will seem tame now.
What I don't understand is why people go for this bullshit. Why is it the government's responsibility to make air travel safe? Who cares? I've been flying for nearly 40 years, and the same risks we have today existed all that time and were just as obvious. And except for the fact that in 2001, the air planes plowed in a big building in Manhattan, 9/11 seems not much different from any of the numerous other plane hijackings.
People should just not vote for any president or representative supporting such measures.
Shocking ! (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Give me your agonizer!!! (Score:3, Insightful)
Life imitates "Mirror, Mirror." Swell.
Nothing to see here, move along (Score:5, Insightful)
Letter from Ruwaldt (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.lamperdlesslethal.com/news/upload/pg2HomelandSecurity7_06.pdf [lamperdlesslethal.com]
Re:Nothing to see here, move along (Score:5, Funny)
Why did this fake story even get posted?
Because it's amusing? If only they had tagged it with a Monty-Python style foot and posted it to 'idle' so that we had some indication that it was silly instead of serious news...
Re:Nothing to see here, move along (Score:5, Informative)
TFS liks to a blog post which itself links to part of a letter (page two, so we don't even get to see the whole letter).
Well, WRT page 1, I used my superior hacking skills to alter the URL http://www.lamperdlesslethal.com/news/upload/pg2HomelandSecurity7_06.pdf [lamperdlesslethal.com] to http://www.lamperdlesslethal.com/news/upload/pg1HomelandSecurity7_06.pdf [lamperdlesslethal.com].
I don't think it is so far fetched for the FAA to want to know about this technology. Wanting to know about it doesn't necessarily mean they intend to mandate it for general use. In fact the letter mentions what occurred to me to be some obvious legitimate applications of the technology, such as prisoner transport.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
You're right - most of the applications mentioned in that letter are for security applications by law enforcement or military.
However, there's still the matter of one little sentence:
"In addition, it is conceivable to envision a use to improve air security, on passenger planes."
I'm sorry, but anybody who envisions that this is conceivable has no fucking clue what it is that they're trying to protect anyone from. I realize that this is the beginning of an invitation to participate in a bidding process, and t
Re:Nothing to see here, move along (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, I don't think a public servant ought to be pilloried for thinking, even about a bad idea. It's not thinking that is the problem, it's acting without thinking.
"Conceiving" that somebody might "envision" using this for general use is hardly a ringing endorsement. It seems to me to be a self-evident truth. If this thing is in specialized use, then in some future scenario there will be a suggestion to put it into general use. Probably that future scenario will be like 9/11 -- an environment where people are demanding action, not reflection.
So, if the technology exists, then I think we ought to consider using for everybody. I expect we'll discover all kinds of reasons to reject the idea, which will be good to know when the demand is to do something, anything.
If an administration is foolish enough to put this into effect except in the aftermath of a 9/11 type event, then it'll deserve what it gets.
I would want independent confirmation of this. (Score:3, Insightful)
Living in the DC area, and seeing the Washington Times (owned by the unification church) in action, I don't consider it a reputable paper and would want some independent confirmation of this.
So what if I... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
The Onion (Score:5, Funny)
Hahaha, man.. The Onion has the best articles!
Hahaha... wait, wtf?!
%#$$%#@!!!
This helps terrorists if implemented (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh no (Score:5, Funny)
Instead of shocking people with a collar (Score:5, Funny)
...why not just show them Slashdot's new interface?
On a practical note. . . (Score:5, Insightful)
you're an airline pilot. A terrorist organization just used Semtex to destroy your reinforced door. I know my gut reaction is to look at a list of passengers and type in an id number to shock a specific individual.
As much as I don't like Tasers, it makes more sense to have a Taser gun than Taser wristbands. Those wristbands have to either be activated individually by number - not happening in an attack - or all at once - pissing everyone off.
For those that want to get outraged, this is an area where big business (airlines) can be your friends. The airlines won't allow this. Anything that makes flying more of a pain reduces their profits - even things like the new security fees on airline tickets reduce their profits. They aren't going to pay more money (I'm guessing at least $15-a-bracelet for the materials, location tag, and shock element considering that a Taser costs hundreds of dollars) to piss off customers.
So, this won't happen.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
you're an airline pilot. A terrorist organization just used Semtex to destroy your reinforced door.
Well, at that point, you are probably dead, given where the blast would go. But the thing to note here is that
Pilots don't need weapons
They have the plane ! They are belted in and have Oxygen masks. They can
- depressurize the cabin
- turn the plane upside down
- cause sufficient acceleration to incapacitate the passengers
- pu
Re:On a practical note. . . (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
NASA's 'Vomit Comet' is a Boeing 717/KC-135 (707 variant used by Air Force). It is indeed reinforced for cargo and aerial refueler duties. Got to catch it one time and do a turn around, back in '88, up at Fairchild AFB. Also, the 707 platform is very good. Check out the 707 prototype, doing a barrel roll [aviationexplorer.com] over Seattle.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
FedEx Flight 705 (Score:3, Interesting)
What are they going to do, hit the hijackers over the head with the aircraft? Firstly, only combat aircrew wear oxygen masks at all times; commercial aircrew only don them during emergencies (and under certain other conditions required by regulations). Any hijackers who manage to breach the flight deck would view with suspicion the flight crew grabbing for their masks. The first option might have some hope of succeeding if the flight crew had ample warning o
why limit it's use (Score:3)
The major benefit is when they get attached to politicians, these bracelets would provide a form of instant feedback for their popularity. Maybe theirs could be fitted with an extra heavy shock capability to let them know when it's time to step down.
Democracy and freedom! wouldn't ya' just love it?
"Running Man" anyone? (Score:3, Insightful)
Flight crew would use them to punish passengers (Score:4, Insightful)
Freedom is really troublesome (Score:5, Insightful)
To authoritarian people, the very idea that the masses have freedom is a scary.
Whether true or not, this story shows a very real reaction some people have to idea that they can't control other people. Freedom is, amongst other things, is also based on a "trust." At some point, a free people will rebel against an increasingly oppressive government. I think we are seeing the U.S. government racing to reach a state of control and surveillance BEFORE people start to rebel en mass.
The race is to get to a point where there is no way the people can rebel without losing their jobs, savings, houses, lives, etc. This is why students and kids protest, because they don't have a life's work of savings to lose.
The irony is that the corrupt powers that be had better fix the economy pretty damn quickly, as people with a lot to lose are easier to control that people who have lost everything. Once we have a major depression, the ideologies of abortion, gun control, "family values," become second to jobs.
If a mob of 1,000,000 people march on the white house with pitchforks and tourches demanding justice, there will be justice.
Re:Freedom is really troublesome (Score:4, Informative)
If a mob of 1,000,000 people march on the white house with pitchforks and tourches demanding justice, there will be justice.
No, they will be labeled a "Violent Mob", and the Anti-Riot control Sonic weapon vehicles can be deployed to drive away the protesters. Or the National Guard, Military etc.
You Americans may have the right to unseat an unwanted government via a second revolution, but the Government also has the right and duty to preserve the peace and can use any means required to stop a violent protest can't it?. I have never understood that dichotomy personally speaking
To me it looks like the US is sliding slowly down the path to fascism of a sort, all in the name of supporting corporate profits and the continuation of the current government. Its kind of frightening to watch actually, but I hope it all turns out well :P
This will work great (Score:3, Insightful)
Until the terrorists figure out that you can circumvent it with a small strip of aluminum foil.
Terrible extrapolation of facts (Score:5, Informative)
There are no "plans for the device" on the part of DHS. The idea for outfitting passengers has originated from the company trying to sell them, Lamperd FTS. Why? Because selling tens of millions of these bad boys is a lot more exciting to the business than selling a few thousand.
By reading the response from the DHS (http://www.lamperdlesslethal.com/news/upload/pg1HomelandSecurity7_06.pdf [lamperdlesslethal.com]) you'll see exactly what they think of the idea. DHS asks for a written proposal, and outlines the areas of interest for them, which are almost solely around prisoner detention and transport. The official also finds it "conceivable to envision a use to improve air security, on passenger planes," but the tone of the letter effectively takes Lamperd's pie in the sky multi-billion dollar contract off the table. Lamperd sends DHS a brochure with their cockamamie idea, DHS responds saying "we can see how you got there. Now here's how *we* would use it, so send us a proposal that focuses on our needs."
That's it. End of story. Yet some kook at the Washington Times puts two and two together and gets ZOMG THE BUSHNAZIS WANT TO PUT SHOCK COLLARS ON US!!!11!!!!ONE!!1!!
Eisenhower said it best (Score:4, Informative)
Re:How much is a pilot license? (Score:5, Insightful)
That is just it... I can load just about anything I want into my private plane and fly anywhere in the US without having to go through security, without having to provide biometric ID, without having to take my shoes off, without having to wear shock collars, etc...etc...etc...
That is why this whole thing is security theatre.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Typical Private Pilot training runs $6,000-$10,000 and about 75 hours of your time.
Once you have it plane rental can run $100-300 an hour (fuel is typically included in the rental rate)
Or buy your own for $50,000 or more then tack in $6.55 a gallon for 110LL Avgas.
Expect about 15 Nautical Miles pr Gallon from something like a Cessna 172 (25 gallon fuel load, 315NM range)
You can get a plane for less but expect some big bill in the near future for required maintnance.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I will dissolve the DHS
How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?
Re:WTF? (Score:5, Funny)
No, TSA-mandated 12" exploding buttplugs would be scary. (which is what it'll take for the public to wake up)
Shock collar boarding passes are merely funny.
Re:WTF? (Score:4, Funny)
I dunno... exploding 12" butt plugs sound funny to me.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Isn't this the same politically conservative Washington Times that's owned by the Moonies?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
If you RTFA...
C'mon, this is Slashdot.
--Having it on paying air passengers is "conceivable"--> this is the sticking point for most of the ./ discussion. It is outrageous, insane, and fascist. It is not, however, close to reality (yet).
Were that the only possible application of the device in an air passenger context, then one could interpret the statement made in the letter ("In addition, it is conceivable to envision a use to improve air security, on passenger planes") to mean putting shock collars on passengers. However, that is highly unlikely what the DHS official means, especially considering the rest of his response focuses on the detention and transportation of bad guys. It's much more likely that DHS is i