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Mandriva Linux 2009 Alpha 2 Released

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 5 years ago | from the still-needs-some-ironing dept.

Mandriva 156

AdamWill writes "The Mandriva Linux 2009 Spring Alpha 2, marking the first public pre-release of the upcoming Mandriva Linux 2009. This alpha introduces several significant changes, most obviously the inclusion of KDE 4 — 4.1 beta 2, specifically — as the default version of KDE, and the latest development version of GNOME, 2.23.4. The kernel has also been updated to release 2.6.26rc7. Another feature of interest to many users will be the addition of orphan package tracking (and optional automatic removal) to the urpmi package manager. Of course, many applications have been updated (although the default version of Mozilla Firefox is still currently 2.0.x), and most of the distribution has been rebuilt with a new GCC version, 4.3. Mandriva warns that this is a true alpha, likely to contain many bugs related to the new version of KDE. Please install it only in a test environment, and especially do not use it as an upgrade from any earlier Mandriva Linux release."

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156 comments

News? (-1, Redundant)

otacon (445694) | more than 5 years ago | (#24156895)

How is an alpha release of Mandriva news?

Re:News? (5, Interesting)

Xtravar (725372) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157115)

Not to start a distro flame war, but...

How is an alpha release of Mandriva news?

BECAUSE IT'S AWESOME! Name me another distro that:
  - installs easily and with lots of options
  - has integrated configuration utilities for GUI AND console that don't mind personal hacking of the config files
  - has bleeding edge packages, if you choose
  - doesn't exclude dev packages in pursuit of user friendliness
  - has native packages for nearly every application you'll use

In other words, they provide a professional, up-to-date Linux environment that is simple enough for newbies, flexible enough for advanced users, and hassle-free for those of us who have no time to waste on configuration and compilation.
Also, it appears to be a rare example of a major distro that still supports multiple desktop environments out of the box.

I'm stoked for Mandriva 2009 and I'm glad to know it's coming...

That said, there's no way in hell I'm installing an alpha of it, so you may have a point. :) But at least I can start prepping my hard disk partitions! WOOO MANDRIVA FTW!!!

Re:News? (1, Troll)

nebulus4 (799015) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157203)

Ubuntu?

Re:News? (4, Interesting)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157567)

Doesn't have anywhere near MDV's range of configuration utilities, which is what the OP was getting at. Also we'd argue our centralized backports repository system is rather better than Ubuntu's "seventy billion PPA" system, for bleeding edge packages. (Yes, for anyone who didn't get the memo yet, I work for Mandriva).

Re:News? (2, Interesting)

the_womble (580291) | more than 5 years ago | (#24158005)

You are ahead on configuration, and do KDE better than Kubuntu, but you are behind on packaging.

I have come across several packages with minor problems (such as missing dependencies) which has hardly ever happened to me with Ubuntu. RPMDrake is also not as good as Synaptic, or even Adept, but I have complained about that before on the Mandriva forums.

The problems with packages is something I have come across more recently. I hope it is just a bad patch rather than showing an underlying lack of QC.

One more thing Adam, you and a few other people do a great job on the forums. Thanks.

Re:News? (4, Informative)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 5 years ago | (#24158067)

When you find a package with an error like that, please report it on the forums or (preferably) to Bugzilla - it'll help in getting it fixed. It does happen sometimes, mostly to contrib packages when the package gets rotten (because a maintainer leaves or stops maintaining a package for some reason). For 2009 there should be no such problems within the /main repository, we are working on ensuring that at present.

Re:News? (1, Interesting)

the_womble (580291) | more than 5 years ago | (#24158473)

I do report problems.

It does usually happen in contrib not main. Unfortunately a lot of useful stuff is in contrib.

Re:News? (1)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 5 years ago | (#24158587)

Do you have any reports like this ATM which don't seem to be getting addressed? If so, email me or PM (on the MDV forums) and I'll take a look at them myself.

Re:News? (1)

nebulus4 (799015) | more than 5 years ago | (#24158619)

No need to get defensive ;) I wasn't saying it was better, just named another distro with all the features the parent was so excited about.

I've used Mandrake for a couple of years before and then the first Mandriva, so I know you've got some superb configuration utilities. The only reason why I switch to Debian was the packaging system, and I just loved apt-get. And today I'm pretty happy with Xubuntu.

Re:News? (1)

multisync (218450) | more than 5 years ago | (#24159487)

Adam, on the subject of packaging, can you tell me if there are any plans to re-introduce some of the functionality that has been removed from the Mandriva package management/update utility in the last couple of releases?

I wrote [slashdot.org] about this last October:

You get a list of packages that have updates available, pre-checked for your convenience, but no info on their size.

Selecting Update starts the downloads. A dialog box pops up - stealing focus, btw - and shows the total size of the file currently being downloaded as well as the progress, but it doesn't tell you how many more files remain to be downloaded, their size or how far along you are in the whole procedure. No problem, I'll just look at that list and see how many files follow the one currently being downloaded. That'll give me some idea. Bit if the list is too long to fit the screen, you can't scroll down because the download dialog has focus.

Later, when packages are being installed, they do tell you 1/20, 2/20 etc. But it just seems klunky.

I've been using Mandrake/Mandriva for years, and I clearly remember their package manager/update utility used to show you the size of all packages selected, how far it had progressed on the packaged currently being installed and the overall progress. As it is now, it only shows you a progress bar indicating how far along you are on the current package but nothing on your overall progress.

Why have they made this regressive change?

I apologize for throwing this at you on Slashdot, AdamWill, but judging from the other comments in this thread, it appears that you are somehow associated with Mandriva. Can you offer any insight in to why this change has been made, and whether there are any plans to return some of the functionality that we used to enjoy?

Re:News? PCLinuxOS? (2, Insightful)

davidsyes (765062) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157847)

I LOVE PCLinuxOS, but am seriously checking out MDV2008.1 Spring FREE (and, that could be where my problems lie...). However, NONE of the current kernels intercepts the shutdown/suspend buttons on my laptop to do proper/graceful shutdowns. PCLOS (from 2007) does, and my VirtualBox install runs just fine...

I am having a HELLUVA time getting MDV 2008.1 to run my .mdi files as my own user account. I can open another user account, open konsole, su to myself, and THEN run my VirtualBox instance of vista, so, after a few days of head-banging, i've decided i must create a new instance of my user account, copy the .vdi in, and re- chown -R (just in case) my VirtualBox files, and then try again. Failing that, reinstall Vista and all my apps and re-register them. Presumably that is all unnecessary.

Likely, my problems also lie in minor changes tween VirtualBox 1.5.4 and 1.5.6, like in Free there is no set of extensions readily apparent. I had to copy them from my other drive.

But, I am reallllly tempted to plunk down for the Powerpack. In my past experiences with MDK/MDV, the Powerpack tended to resolve in one go all my issues with Free.

Another potential area of my problems is that the install disk that came with Linux Magazine might be damage, or it could be my wonky DVD burner, since the install aborts EVERY SINGLE TIME at the same place, forcing me to copy the entire DVD with auto-skip-on-error of a file copy. After that, I managed to create a local repository from which to install and upgrade in place the Mdv 2008.0 Spring I installed back around February.

Not knocking Mandriva. But one of the best personal reasons for me to avoid Free is I am sick of the crippling of the rotating background, and when I show off Mandriva, I hate having the Free background overriding the settings i made.

Nicely, the 3D Compiz works, tho, humoursly, Metisse DOES NOT, on my laptop. I ran a DVI (Azumi 2 for those interested) in LinDVD (which, now makes me care less and less whether it's Xine or VLC or Kaffeine as long as I can damned watch damned legally-paid for DVDs, and as long as having LinDVD mitigates or obviates the fracking risk of the federales confiscating my laptop for having dvdccs on my machine JUST to watch DVDs I legally paid for.)

Re:News? PCLinuxOS? Some Clarification (1)

davidsyes (765062) | more than 5 years ago | (#24159163)

By crippled background I meant the LOGIN screen. It's REALLY kewl to me when in public having my login screen up, but in the background having the images rotate every 60 seconds. This is neat advertising of Linux when in kiosk situations.

Usually, when it comes time to upgrade, I usually do a quick assessment of what I could not handle having broken, and then i often go ahead with a complete new install. Often, for me, things are just "cleaner" that way.

As for VirtualBox, I found that one of my Lotus Approach "apps" I created is running gnawed-dog-slow and now I have a reason to miss Win4Lin in my previous installs on my desktop. But, on my laptop, Win4Lin (3x) won't run in the latest kernels. And, installing win98 in VirtualBox is painful in the end because the f*ker refuses to STICK with 1020x768. Same ole crappy problems I hated win98 for in the past when I was in IT. Sucker only sticks to 640x480.

So, I cannot fall back on win98 for its relative leanness and speed over vista when running Lotus SmartSuite. (No, there is NO WAY IN HELL that anything in OpenOffice can one-for-one replace my Lotus SmartSuite addiction, functionality, or other aspects that make SmartSuite a smart suite. It's aged, but SmartSuite is what IBM should have morphed into Symphony, and it would have paid a helluva better homage to the lineage of Lotus when it was cutting edge.

Now, I'm contemplating having to plunk down some $170 for xp pro cuz vista just PLAIN SUCKS. Well, so far. I probably will see gains if I get ahold of a patch to it, but I only want the patch if it's not requiring me to hook my machine (vista) to a LAN. I only want a single download, and I hope the bandaid/patch is under 500 MB, or something REASONABLE.

After all, on my Gateway having an extremely (relatively) limited Intel i810 chip with a max of under 300 MB shared RAM, the speed gains from using XP in VirtualBox will trump anything Vista Home claims to offer. Moreover, the Compiz 3D graphics on my laptop are spiffy, impressive, and snappy and offer more than Vista does for the eye candy sugar's worth. Now, if only Compiz didn't compress KDE multiple desktops into ONE desktop. It should automagically create the number of cube sides matching the number of virtual desktops already present, and then match them to the cube's sides. I am suspecting that many of my past and current issues in Compiz have something to do with .kde config files being munged here and there.

Xrandrtray was crashing on EVERY SINGLE BOOT of KDE, well, until this AM, when I chose a different Mandriva-modded kernel from the Grub list. I was surprised to see KRR running without crashing. Interestingly, my virtual desktop display was behaving as if ~~2000x6000, because it was HUGE, but I right-clicked and disabled auto start of KRR, and reduced it to my preferred 1440x900.

Some of you might have issues where Vista DOES start, but then your disk just thrashes for 4 hours (mine did for longer, and when I woke up I had to shut it down so I could bag up my lappy and head for work) with sluggish mouse response, where 10 seconds would pass before the mouse would move. VBox menus didn't respond, so maybe 5 times in the past 4 days I had to reboot the laptop. But, for $80, before I pay for MDV 2008.2 Spring, I sure as hell want a FULL install (maybe timed demo modded disk) that I can put thru the motions and then send in the USD $80. I'm all for rooting around in Linux, but mostly at the power user, but not hacker or anywhere NEAR hacker level.

Re:News? PCLinuxOS? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#24160091)

But, I am reallllly tempted to plunk down for the Powerpack. In my past experiences with MDK/MDV, the Powerpack tended to resolve in one go all my issues with Free.

I will never ever spend money to buy an upgrade because it fixes a bug.

I have in the past made contributions to software, and will do so again. I may even pay for targeted bugfixes. But this just doesn't seem right.

Incidentally, Metisse is pretty nifty-looking, but it doesn't support GL redirection and it's unclear when that is coming. So don't be too sad. Compiz is more important. Ever tried to build Metisse? It's exciting and the instructions don't work. (The authors of Nucleo and Metisse, however, are more than willing to provide assistance on the mailing list.)

Re:News? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157907)

Don't know why you were marked troll, should have been something else negative :) Ubuntu is a PITA when it comes to configuring it in that the online documentation is poop. If you don't already know how to do what you want to do you have to go find out in the most gruesome manner possible. With that said, Ubuntu mostly does things in pretty standard ways (with some exceptions in driver-land) so you can usually adapt the means of fixing a problem on many other distributions to Ubuntu.

Re:News? (2, Interesting)

nebulus4 (799015) | more than 5 years ago | (#24159053)

I don't know either, wasn't trolling, just answering the parent and expressing my honest opinion.

Anyhow, I've got to agree with you, documentation is not only a poop, but practically doesn't exist. You've got to use the forums. But when it comes to configuration... I don't know, may not be as smooth as on Mandriva, but was straightforward... at least for me.

Re:News? (1)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 5 years ago | (#24159847)

It's not that there's anything wrong with the tools Ubuntu *does* have (actually, they're mostly well designed and work well) but it just doesn't have the range of tools that MCC and YAST have. Among the tools you likely won't find on Ubuntu (I didn't check for a couple of releases) - fax server setup, UPS setup, network profile manager, internet sharing wizard, Windows font import tool, log viewer, backup tool, snapshot tool, SMB and NFS server and client setup tools, firewall, parental control, bootsplash configuration tool.

Re:News? (1, Insightful)

Fri13 (963421) | more than 5 years ago | (#24159051)

Ubuntu lacks good OS and System configuration tools.

All tools what Ubuntu offeres, are mostly from GNOME. Mandriva has own great tools what are used on other distributions too, example a PCLinuxOS. Other great distribution offering good tools is OpenSuse (Suse).

That's why I dont recomend ubuntu for novice user because almost all littlebit advanced configuration needs commandline, sudo this and sudo that and sudo gedit this and that.

If Ubuntu would get MCC/Yast, it would be good distribution for novice, not it's just for those who are happy what ever they get or real experts who knows how to "code" what is needed.

Re:News? (1)

spun (1352) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157261)

Name me a modern distro that doesn't do all those things. Seriously, have you used Linux recently? OH, sorry, sorry, you were being sarcastic, weren't you? Damn, I need my humor sensors adjusted.

Re:News? (1)

brunascle (994197) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157313)

I believe

doesn't exclude dev packages in pursuit of user friendliness

was a jab at Ubuntu. I dont know if the latest release is the same, but i remember being flabbergasted because i get anything to install from source. I think i had to manually get something from synaptic (libc-dev, maybe gcc, I dont remember). Whatever it was shouldve been there by default.

Re:News? (1)

spun (1352) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157453)

Most distros do not include the dev packages in an install unless you ask them to. There is no reason for most users to have dev packages on a desktop, and there is no reason for dev packages to be on a production server. If you want them, they are easy enough to install.

And they aren't excluded for 'user friendliness.' Most users would have no idea if a dev package was installed or not. If anything, since they are invisible to people who don't need them, the user friendly thing would be to include them by default.

Re:News? (1)

ottothecow (600101) | more than 5 years ago | (#24158599)

I seem to remember mandrake/mandriva offering choices at install that would allow me to select the Dev tools. Now the first thing I install on ubuntu is build-essential or whatever the meta-package that gets make, gcc, etc (I think build-essential might actually be the kernel header meta-package but it invokes dependencies on all the dev tools I need)

I gave up on mandriva about when it made the name change (I switched sometime late 2005/early 2006) mainly because I wanted to give the new ubuntu thing a try. I don't remember what it was, but it stuck (even gradually pulled me from kubuntu to ubuntu)

Re:News? (1)

Xtravar (725372) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157595)

Actually, that was a jab at Lycoris, a distro I tried and absolutely enjoyed until I couldn't find up-to-date dev packages I needed.

I tried Ubuntu once. I was not impressed. It definitely didn't seem as simple to install and configure as Mandriva is. Not to mention, it didn't have the choice to run multiple desktop environments if you so choose.

The thing about Mandriva is that it's kinda like Windows - it tries to be everything for everyone, and has the flexibility to do so, and indeed succeeds most of the time. Newbies, power-users, gamers, and server admins all wrapped into one.

My experience with Ubuntu was that it's more of a "install on your grandparents' old machine and forget about it" type of distro. Perhaps a lot has changed since then?

Re:News? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24157797)

Not to mention, it didn't have the choice to run multiple desktop environments if you so choose.

Wait, what? Any DE you install from the repos will show up as an option in GDM.

Re:News? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24159403)

Didn't Mandriva absorb Lycoris?

Re:News? (4, Informative)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157597)

The main point is configuration utilities. Of the other mainstream distros, only SUSE's YaST has anything like the range of the Mandriva Control Center, but it doesn't take kindly to you altering the files it controls manually (it tends to just reset them, completely overwriting your manual modifications). MDV doesn't do this. That was what the OP meant with that point. Ubuntu and Fedora (and derivatives) have nothing like MCC / YaST.

Re:News? (1)

Fri13 (963421) | more than 5 years ago | (#24159127)

MCC and Yast just rocks. Altought I like more MCC because it is cleander and more simpler to do with easy-to-use wizards.

I'm hoping that someday, there would come Qt version of MCC so GTK+ could be forget, because sometimes I run to that point when I run MCC, it gets nonkind theme from GTK+ and it is ugly. But it is small price about the tools.

I hope that MCC could be ported to other distributions too because it would bring GNU/Linux even wider area, currently all other (excluding *suse and MDV based distributions) distributions lacks such intuitive and easy-to-use tools :-)

MANDRIVA in Love Internet Cafe in Philippines (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24157541)

I just came back from the Philippines last week where I set up an Internet cafe with Mandriva 2008.1 version Power Pack edition. During the winter this year I tried every version of the major distributions on my systems at home and chose Mandriva for the cafe because it is so well set up for administrative control, firewall control, etc .. I have been using SUSE for over 8 years and the Mandriva looks fantastic visually, has all the software you need and offers CEDEGA to run Windows based games for online gaming. I mention this aspect since all the main users there are young guys who play on line games in the cafes. Almost all of the MMORPG games were Windows centric and CEDEGA allows you to play them with Linux. This is a clear case for better Linux gaming capability needing to come about to make Linux a real options for game players who spend a lot of money in cafes in the Philippines. I was actually forced to creat dual boot systems with four of the computers with XP so that CONQUERONLINE would play on the machines. I was quite distrubed to be forced to buy XP for those machines but ECONOMIC REALITY overrode my real desire to have Linux only cafe computers.

Re:News? (1)

b0bby (201198) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157637)

In other words, they provide a professional, up-to-date Linux environment that is simple enough for newbies, flexible enough for advanced users, and hassle-free for those of us who have no time to waste on configuration and compilation.

That's it, in a nutshell. I've tried most distros, and I still find that for my use, Mandriva is the least hassle. There's always less annoying stuff going wrong, and their default selection of tools works well for me. Despite all the press and presumably developer effort that Ubuntu gets, I still think that Mandriva is nicer. YMMV.

Re:News? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24157865)

Okay, thanks for trying to answer that because I was wondering what the point of Mandriva was now. But...

In other words, they provide a professional, up-to-date Linux environment that is simple enough for newbies, flexible enough for advanced users, and hassle-free for those of us who have no time to waste on configuration and compilation.

... does all this need to be in one distro? I'd figure Ubuntu would keep the market for "newbies" (people like me who've only been playing with home computers since '78, and I guess just want an appliance now) and "professionals" would go for a distro that's /entirely/ unencumbered by newbie friendliness.

I'm not seeing how putting the two together can win a market for Mandriva. Although variety is good -- If Ubuntu screws up, there's an easy option for all those people to shift to. But counting on Ubuntu screwing up isn't enough to make a reasonable business plan.

I read the Wiki article, and I'm still not sure how Mandriva's making money right now. Do they have a big enterprise licensing income from something?

Re:News? (1)

laddiebuck (868690) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157929)

SUSE. I've used both; OpenSUSE kicks Mandriva's arse. It has all that you mention and is more stable and has better packages to boot.

Re:News? (1)

Fri13 (963421) | more than 5 years ago | (#24159159)

I'm currently using OpenSuse 11.0 and MDV 2008 Spring on two machines. What I like is one-click repository management on OpenSUSE, but I more like the "easy urpmi" site what is needed to run once. On OpenSuse I run all place the web to find where is packages etc. Samething goes sometimes with Mandriva when Ubuntu has most of packages but I just get newest usually for MDV what I need. There is few packages what I would like but I get them more easily with SVN ;-)

I like OpenSuse but MDV just has my heart.

Re:News? (1)

jaguth (1067484) | more than 5 years ago | (#24158101)

installs easy? maybe now, but it wasn't too long ago when mandrake's install was craptastic. thats when i decided never again to use mandrake. so, with all of those perks you mention, you must be praising slackware, right?

Re:News? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24158475)

Name me a distro

Slackware.

Re:News? (1)

f2x (1168695) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157195)

Well, it's like the first buds of spring! I always look forward to the Mandriva releases because it gives me an idea of the tone this release is going to bring to the Mandriva distribution.

Personally, I'm hoping to get better hardware support for my EEE in their *Free edition, faster boot times, a cleaner/more responsive KDE, and less overall bloat.

I'm going out for the weekend, but this news gives me something to check out sometime in the coming week.

Re:News? (2, Insightful)

sm62704 (957197) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157375)

How is all of what you hear about Windows 7 news? The fact is that progress of any new version of any OS is news. Do you complain when there is news about an upcoming yet unreaeased Mac OS?

If you made the same comment about a Windows 7 news item you would have been modded flamebait (not by me, mind you; I'd mod it as "overrated").

I'm excited about the progress; I use Mandriva dual boot; of the distros I've tried, it's my favorite. I haven't tried Ubantu yet, but that's only because I've been happy with Mandriva.

Oddly, I'm posting this comment on IE in Windows =(

Re:News? (1)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 5 years ago | (#24158055)

How is all of what you hear about Windows 7 news? The fact is that progress of any new version of any OS is news.

Yes, it's news, but is it worthy of Slashdot or not? The market adoption do have something to do with it. Really. But yes, Mandriva is pretty popular -- on the other hand, this isn't even a beta release. Windows 7 though, that's the sequel to the most common line of desktop operating systems in the world.

Re:News? (1)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157489)

Honestly? I wish I knew the criteria. I submit every significant bit of Mandriva news. Almost everything gets rejected. For instance, Slashdot did not post a story on the *final* release of 2008 Spring - that one was rejected. So I just throw everything at the wall and hope something sticks. I didn't really expect this to, but we'll take it. I think it probably involves rubber chickens and stuff.

WHAT THE SHIT? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24156925)

[a@localhost firefox]$ ./firefox ./firefox-bin: error while loading shared libraries: libpangocairo-1.0.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[a@localhost firefox]$

Would this happen in windows or mac? No

Re:WHAT THE SHIT? (3, Insightful)

dameron (307970) | more than 5 years ago | (#24156969)

Would you be dicking around in a windows or mac alpha?

No, you wouldn't.

Re:WHAT THE SHIT? (1)

alexborges (313924) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157129)

One might if one ever got the chance to get ones paws on a win or osx alpha.

Which doesnt happen.

Re:WHAT THE SHIT? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157911)

I don't know about an alpha, but I did run a prerelease build of Windows 95. I got it on 21 floppy disks from a guy who ran a local 'elite' BBS. It was better than Windows 3.11...

Re:WHAT THE SHIT? (1)

electricbern (1222632) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157455)

That would not happen in windows. It would be something like: "Error 0xFF3041123. Contact support.". On a pop-up. Without a close button. With "always stays on top".

Re:WHAT THE SHIT? (1)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157819)

Why are you trying to run a random copy of Firefox out of your home directory instead of just using the packaged copy like everyone else? And how the hell do you not have libpango0 installed? Just about nothing will work without it these days, and that's the package with libpangocairo-1.0.so.0 in it...

Hrm... (1)

voltel (1323287) | more than 5 years ago | (#24156941)

Says their including KDE4. Is KDE4 really ready for the limelight yet? I mean, from what I can tell, kde4 doesn't feel like its quite ready for regular users yet. Perhaps we'll see with the 4.1.x release branch. I'm sure looking forward to 4.0, once its got all its nice applications from 3.5.x migrated over.

Re:Hrm... (1)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157641)

No, it's not, which is why it's just as well the final release of this comes out in October, not now. :) By October we reckon KDE 4 will be in pretty good shape. If it's not we can still revert to KDE 3, but we don't think it'll be necessary.

Re:Hrm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24158385)

I beg to differ, I have been using KDE4 since Kubuntu 8.04 Beta 1. Though it has it's annoying quirks now and then still nothing has made me think to myself "Wow this is terrible I'll never touch it again." I'd say it is perfectly fine for any type of user.

Yeah it isn't completely stable but I never found KDE 3.5 nor GNOME that stable either.

What is the point of using a computer that works all the time? That wouldn't be fun in my opinion.

2008: Year of Linux on the Desktop (5, Funny)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 5 years ago | (#24156959)

Having taken a look at this latest release, I'm convinced that THIS IS THE YEAR that Linux will be the dominant desktop OS. Easy installation, advanced package manager, FREE!, and tons of community support; there's really no reason that it won't win the hearts and minds of users everywhere.

And with the cost of oil skyrocketing, people have less money to shell out to Microsoft, so a free OS is just what this ailing economy needs. It's surprising. Just a few months ago I was mentioning to someone just how good Linux was, but at that time he scoffed and said his grandmother still wouldn't be able to use it. However with this latest Mandriva Alpha (cool name) release, I think we're looking at a watershed moment here.

I'm looking forward to upgrading my systems post haste.

Re:2008: Year of Linux on the Desktop (1)

otacon (445694) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157025)

I read this post 3 times and there wasn't one bad analogy, let alone an analogy in the thing. Lots of sarcasm yes, and very much appreciated.

Re:2008: Year of Linux on the Desktop (1)

clampolo (1159617) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157561)

Well, looking at market share, [hitslink.com] even though Linux is still under 1%, it's almost doubled it's share in a year.

So even though the year of the Linux Desktop is a bit away, the time is coming closer.

Re:2008: Year of Linux on the Desktop (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24157885)

It's actually about 2%. The hitslink numbers are low because so few tech/Linux focussed sites use the hitslink stats counter.

Re:2008: Year of Linux on the Desktop (1)

ypctx (1324269) | more than 5 years ago | (#24159313)

I would recommend to be more skeptic of the guys that SEO themselves to the first position of Google results.
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp [w3schools.com]
Linux is near 4%!

Re:2008: Year of Linux on the Desktop (1)

clampolo (1159617) | more than 5 years ago | (#24159429)

Yeah, your number is probably more correct. Either way, it's a messy subject because of the inaccuracy of polling. The hitslink numbers (as the AC pointed out) could be artificially low because they base their polling on hits to 20 websites they have selected - a server sure as hell isn't going to be hitting those sites.

Re:2008: Year of Linux on the Desktop (1)

ypctx (1324269) | more than 5 years ago | (#24159591)

Not only an inaccuracy because of Linux being the best server OS, but also because Linux desktop users tend to visit different websites than the average Windows user, IMHO..
If say, those 20 websites were developer portals, I think Linux would be around 45% (wild guess).

What is Mandriva's market anymore, anyways? (4, Interesting)

paroneayea (642895) | more than 5 years ago | (#24156995)

Back in the day, when I started using Linux, Mandrake (now Mandriva) was a great distribution that helped newbies like me hit the ground running. But now it seems like Ubuntu has gobbled up that market. Afaict, they don't have much of an "enterprise" market, and they don't have much of a "hacker" market... or am I wrong? What market is Mandriva serving these days?

Re:What is Mandriva's market anymore, anyways? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24157063)

What market is Mandriva serving these days?

The KDE holdouts market?

Re:What is Mandriva's market anymore, anyways? (1)

blahbooboo (839709) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157065)

Back in the day, when I started using Linux, Mandrake (now Mandriva) was a great distribution that helped newbies like me hit the ground running. But now it seems like Ubuntu has gobbled up that market. Afaict, they don't have much of an "enterprise" market, and they don't have much of a "hacker" market... or am I wrong? What market is Mandriva serving these days?

What's mandriva? :P

Re:What is Mandriva's market anymore, anyways? (1)

davidsyes (765062) | more than 5 years ago | (#24159315)

"What's mandriva? :P"

I see the :P, but I'm still peeved that those hurst people coerced Mandrake to change names, munging Mandrake with Connectiva. Mandrake the software company wasn't selling porn, or writing or distributing newspapers, didn't operate out of a sex-howling castle in the sky or off the beach cliffs. I'm STILL pissed. I LIKED the name Mandrake. And, the word Mandrake preceded by HUNDREDS OF YEARS that so-called empire that acquired the name Mandrake through (a)sexual reproduction... It's not as if Linux Mandrake/Mandrake were selling seeds, roots, stems, buds, or other agricultural/recreational materials...

I want my MANDRAKE back. I think I'll keep calling Mandriva Mandrake just to rattle some cages and cattle some rages. Damned lawyers (when they're on the wrong side....).

Besides, what IS a "mandrake"?

See wikipedia...

Re:What is Mandriva's market anymore, anyways? (5, Interesting)

f2x (1168695) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157377)

How about the market for people who just want their systems to work out of the box?

Now I did just have a couple of unexpected meltdowns recently after some 2008.1 updates, but overall, my Mandr(ake|iva) installs have been exceptionally stable compared with my (*)buntu experiences.

Re:What is Mandriva's market anymore, anyways? (3, Informative)

davmoo (63521) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157477)

I swear I don't mean to be difficult here, I'm just stating my own experiences.

>What market is Mandriva serving these days?

The market that wants the stuff to work. Out of the box. With no bit twiddling.

My PCs are not bleeding edge, and they don't use anything non-standard. Same for my laptops. And I have not even once been able to get any version of Ubuntu, or any of its derivatives, to install correctly on anything I own without having to majorly fight with it. And that includes Hardy Heron.

Mandriva, on the other hand, is just the opposite. It has never once failed to install correctly, straight out of the box, no hammering required.

Contrary to what everyone here likes to report, I've never had problems installing any version of Windows on any hardware I own (and that includes Vista). I expect Linux to be no different. If I have to fire up so much as a text editor to make alterations to get the distribution to install, then its garbage. I should be able to put the DVD in a drive, fire it up, answer some questions, and get a working installation. Just like I do with Windows. Mandriva, and Mandrake before it, is the one distribution of Linux that "just works" for me. Each and every time, on each and every machine I put it on.

I'll probably install the alpha on a test machine tonight.

Re:What is Mandriva's market anymore, anyways? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157983)

I am getting ready to drop Ubuntu from my laptop. That's an annoyance because I would like to have just one distribution in my house, but... "oh well." (I like Ubuntu LTSP, so I guess I will stick with it for my server. LTSP5 isn't one of those "add-on" kind of things.) But I have had a different problem with graphics not caused by the nvidia driver in each of the last two versions of Ubuntu. With the same driver on all distributions, on Feisty everything pretty much worked, on Gutsy Xgl would white screen, and now on Hardy fullscreen SDL black screens. My laptop is not bleeding edge either but it is slightly wacky (I have Quadro FX1500 graphics, otherwise it's pretty standard centrino stuff) but regardless, Ubuntu definitely has been breaking things in new and exciting ways and I'm getting tired of it. Windows XP, of course, works flawlessly on this machine; HPQ actually mailed me CDs when I complained that the on-disk image burning program failed. So I may just fall all the way back to Windows XP so that I can play games and rapidly run streets and trips, and just netboot the system so that I can run LTSP. I wonder if I could use a dynamic routing daemon so that I could boot from the wired network, then switch to the wifi once started. Or maybe I'll just get an 8GB SDHC and install to that. I wonder if it will work in my nw9440?

Re:What is Mandriva's market anymore, anyways? (1)

sconeu (64226) | more than 5 years ago | (#24158109)

I've used Mandrake/Mandriva since about 2001. And I hope to hell that 2009.0 is a lot better than 2008.1. 2008.0 was good, but when I upgraded to 2008.1 they changed the way a lot of stuff worked (I still haven't figured out how to get the full hdlist.cz instead of the synthesis) or just plain wouldn't install right (the urpmi version of nvidia drivers).

Re:What is Mandriva's market anymore, anyways? (2, Informative)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 5 years ago | (#24158531)

We don't use full hdlists any more; it was replaced with a system where the information is split across several .xml files. This allows the necessary file to be downloaded on-the-fly (for instance, if you try to look at a package's file list in rpmdrake - or run urpmq -l - then the .xml file that contains file lists for all the packages in that repository will be downloaded at that time).

If you'd rather have one big wait when you update your repositories rather than a smaller wait the first time you try and access a specific type of data for a given repository, you can go to the repository editing program, go to Options / Global Options, and set "XML meta-data download policy" to Update-only. That should give you basically the same behaviour as you used to have with full hdlists. I'm not aware of any general problem with the packaged NVIDIA drivers. They work normally for most users. If you give more specific information about the problem (maybe in our forums or by email), I will try and help.

Not me that's for sure (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24157591)

The name is too close to "Mangina" for my comfort.

Re:What is Mandriva's market anymore, anyways? (4, Informative)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157897)

The same market as always, better than Ubuntu does. ;) No, seriously, give it a try, you might be surprised.

We do actually have a reasonably large enterprise business, mainly in Europe (and particularly France, obviously). We also have several significant OEM deals, including a pre-load deal with one of the largest Brazilian PC manufacturers (several thousand PCs are shipped pre-loaded with Mandriva in Brazil every month). We also have an involvement with Intel's Classmate PC program, we're involved in a large project in Angola to basically revamp its entire national IT structure, and there's a netbook / mini-laptop / whatever you call them coming out with Mandriva pre-loaded later this year - the Gdium (http://www.gdium.com). But yeah, we still have a significant (and growing) user base among normal every day Linux users. Sales of the Powerpack and Flash are pretty strong, and there's many times more people using the free editions.

Re:What is Mandriva's market anymore, anyways? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#24160137)

the Gdium (http://www.gdium.com)

Do I want to know what a Gayaplex is?

Re:What is Mandriva's market anymore, anyways? (2, Interesting)

Fri13 (963421) | more than 5 years ago | (#24159237)

Ubuntu has got the spotlight because it does few things better than others.

1) Nice slogan "Ubuntu means humanity to others"
2) Few applications on menus (was then, now everyone has only best ones on menus!)
3) Came right time out when Linux got good HW support and GNOME got good versions out so it was looking good for Windows XP user!

And that's it. Now it has great package support (thanks to Debian!) and big support from magazines etc, who dont know anything else than Ubuntu and thinks that Ubuntu is someway different OS what just use Linux as kernel, than other distributions.

So Ubuntu actually rides only with its fame.
If you place Ubuntu, Mandriva, OpenSuse, Fedora and PCLinuxOS for normal user and you ask them to do different task, like configuring computer, installing applications etc, Mandriva (+PCLinuxOS) and OpenSuse comes first ones, depending what is taste of tester. Ubuntu and Fedora stays behind.

I install Linux for normal users who like to get new OS and are tired for Windows. I give them a demo about all three distributions and give them try them and if they want, they can testrun them few weeks on their machine before choosing and it's always Mandriva or OpenSUSE, sometimes PCLinuxOS but Ubuntu stays behind, even by those who have heard only about it!

Re:What is Mandriva's market anymore, anyways? (1)

Heddahenrik (902008) | more than 5 years ago | (#24159373)

I'm not exactly "Mandriva Market" as I haven't paid for my membership in years, but Mandriva is the only OS I use on my mother's computer, my desktop and servers (That are running Elftown [elftown.com], Elfpack [elfpack.com], Elfwood [elfwood.com] and more).

Mandriva isn't perfect, but I'm not in the mood to learn another package system after learning RPM (and Mandriva's urpmi-tool) so Ubuntu isn't really interesting until I really have to.

I'm really not happy about that they aren't shipping Firefox 3 though. Right now I think I have a badly (halfly) updated Mandriva 2008-2008.1 system that can't run Firefox 3 properly. I have no spelling-control (I hope that isn't seen in this posting...) and GIF-images bigger than 420px*152px will not show (Firefox 3 in Wine 1.0 works just fine though, and it works fine on my mother's Mandriva 2008.0). So an upgrade with RPM-dependency Firefox 3 would be nice. Although I have to say that the installation programming and instruction documentation for Firefox 3 on Linux are way beyond shit. No instructions available in the dist, only a link to a non-working URL, no checking if you have the libs needed, no bloody nothing! Even Sun's Java was easier to install correctly... (And that demanded looking at a web-page, doing some very specific copying to the right dirs and an ldconfig-command, if I remember correctly.).

Re:What is Mandriva's market anymore, anyways? (1)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 5 years ago | (#24159895)

There's a Firefox 3 package in the /main/testing repository for 2008 Spring (incorrectly, actually - it's supposed to be in /main/backports). It just won't be shipped as an official update unless Firefox 2 goes out of maintenance.

well? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24157083)

isn't vista still at the alpha stage?

An alpha open source? (1)

sm62704 (957197) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157145)

Have the definitions of alpha and beta changed? An alpha used to be an in-house test, while a beta was released to outsiders.

I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how an open source project can have an alpha phase?

Re:An alpha open source? (3, Interesting)

mhall119 (1035984) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157357)

Alphas are released for developers (which don't have to be "in-house"), while betas are released to testers.

Re:An alpha open source? (1)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157767)

There is no One True Definition of what's an alpha, what's a beta, what's a release candidate, and what gets released to who. Everyone does it differently.

Re:An alpha open source? (1)

penguin_dance (536599) | more than 5 years ago | (#24158033)

Yes, for instance, if it's a Microsoft product, the pre-release is really the Alpha and the final release is actually the beta. They figure, "Hey the more beta testers, the better, let's roll out that SP3!"

paid ad? (-1, Troll)

homesnatch (1089609) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157175)

Seriously wondering if this is a paid ad by someone in the Mandriva camp to get exposure... Are they even a relevant distro anymore?

Re:paid ad? (4, Informative)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157751)

Slashdot don't take paid ads as news. I submitted this through the submission form same as everyone else (and as noted above, /. rejects 95% of MDV-related stories). My contact address is .mandriva.com, so whoever reads the submissions knows I work for MDV.

And, yes, of course we're relevant. We're probably the fourth biggest distribution overall (behind Ubuntu, SUSE and Fedora / RH). We're the largest remaining independent commercial desktop Linux distributor (excepting Canonical, which is not really a conventional company but basically entirely funded out of Mr. Shuttleworth's pocket) - if you want a company that exists by providing Linux distributions to end-users (and doesn't do it as a loss leader or a development spin off), Mandriva is basically it. And 2008 Spring got probably the best overall reviews out of the crop released at the same time, as noted by Distrowatch this week.

Re:paid ad? (1)

GnuAge (528559) | more than 5 years ago | (#24158857)

Yup [distrowatch.com].

On the distribution front, we have had the pleasure of seeing new releases from all major Linux makers. Once again, Mandriva seems to be a winner here, earning high marks from both the reviewers and the users on various forums for its 2008.1 release. ...SNIP... Still, it seems that Mandriva was the distribution that found the best balance between features and stability. Despite that, the company continues to struggle as its flagship product still lacks the mindshare and popularity of the other three distributions.

Since April I've done fresh installs of the latest versions of Mandriva, Kubuntu, Ubuntu, opensuse11, sidux & Debian testing Lenny (and was scared off from Fedora 9 by the lousy reviews), and I have to say I was most satisfied with the Mandriva process and result.

That said, the Mandriva upgrade process has always been kind of rocky for me, particularly if I try to skip a release or two, and Mandriva only supports its free product with "base" upgrades for about 18 months and "desktop" updates for a paltry year. I hate reinstalling, so I prefer a rolling release like Debian or a release with relatively longer shelf life, like Ubuntu LTS or even opensuse's 2 years of support.

That said, like someone mentioned above, I have been impressed by the efforts made by the Mandriva staff to help me through the bumpy stretches on their forums. I'm secretly convinced that this so-called "Adam Williamson" character is just a code-name for about 50 hard-working guys.

Re:paid ad? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24160259)

Thank you from mandriva, I'm a huge fan of mandriva.
I agrea totaly with what you say, ofcourse mandriva dosent hav the power bost the blogs about how mandriva is nor the capital to move half the comunity across the globe for some pseudo developers meeting.
Mandriva is a honest distro trying to make a honest living. Thank you!!!

Shouldn't they fix 2008 first? (2, Insightful)

kwabbles (259554) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157201)

Instead of just releasing another hosed major version?

Anyone remember back when it was Mandrake and it actually worked?

Re:Shouldn't they fix 2008 first? (1)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157217)

Anyone remember back when it was Mandrake and it actually worked?

You mean back when they were just a rip off of RedHat?

Re:Shouldn't they fix 2008 first? (2, Funny)

kwabbles (259554) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157259)

You mean back when they were just a rip off of RedHat?

Yup. Which was back when RedHat actually worked.

(I'm jabbing at Fedora, not the pay-for-functionality ES series.)

YaY! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24157249)

As Keoni Morrell, trucker extraordinaire, would say: "YaY, YaY, YaY!!!!!"

BYe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

This may be the least interesting thing ever. (2, Funny)

Madball (1319269) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157263)

Congrats /. has really outdone itself now. Hmmm... Maybe I could submit a post about my pocket lint.

Games (1, Insightful)

Zombie Ryushu (803103) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157417)

I've been able to put together a better gaming Linux setup on Mandriva than Ubuntu. Mandriva has alot of things Ubuntu doesn't.

Re:Games (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24160199)

do you have the Power Pack version with CEDEGA? What is your experience with MMORPG?

Any stable desktop? (4, Insightful)

MMC Monster (602931) | more than 5 years ago | (#24157531)

A beta version of KDE4? A development version of Gnome, and a RC of the kernel?

At least this is only an alpha.

Which makes me wonder how this got to the front page of /..

Re:Any stable desktop? (1)

AdamWill (604569) | more than 5 years ago | (#24158141)

As I said, I really don't know what post selection criteria gets the post on 2008 Spring's *final* release rejected but this one accepted. Which is why I just submit everything and take whatever we can get published, these days. KDE 3.5 is available in contrib - aside from that there's no stable release of a major desktop included, though GNOME 2.23 is actually working quite well for me, and there's Xfce or IceWM or whatever to fall back on. But yes, this really is an alpha.

I THANK YXOU FOR YOUR TIME (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24158221)

against vigorous ero5ion of user Reformatted legitimise doing don't feel that least I won't FreeBSD at about 80

Who does Mandriva appeal to? Me! (3, Insightful)

gukin (14148) | more than 5 years ago | (#24159125)

I've been running Mandriva since MDK 7.2, I had a few issues with 8.2 but everything "just works".

Yes I've tried Ubuntu, it's very shiny but I can't get into the guts of the beast; besides I'm better at using Mandriva.

What I really like best is I can use my Power pack (yes I'm a silver member) or I can use Mandriva-mini and, once I"ve set up the repositories, I can type "sudo urpmi mythtv-backend" and it all goes and works.

To me, that's a pretty damn neat trick. That's a lot neater than going down to Best Buy and buying whatever TV tuner they've got and trying to make it work on Vista.

Mandriva is more newbie friendly (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24159485)

Mandriva is great. It is quite smooth. Suse is the only other distribution that it can be compared to. Graphical interface for configuring everything on a Linux desktop. Ubuntu does not have that. Samba works better out of the box than it does out of Ubuntu as well as zeroconf. It connects well with OSX.

However, it does have it's own quirks. I haven't been able to run it on my laptop since the 2007 release. I have to recompile the kernel to get it to run smoothly. Mostly because I have a craptastic hardware in my laptop. On the other hand Ubuntu runs quite well on my laptop. I'm not quite sure what the difference is since they use similar kernels.

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