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Nielsen Collects FL Tax Breaks, Then Outsources Jobs

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the can-you-say-ta-ta dept.

The Almighty Buck 572

theodp writes "The poop is hitting the fan over tax breaks given to ratings giant Nielsen Co., which pocketed millions in Florida jobs-creation tax concessions but has turned around and dismissed hundreds of local workers after inking a $1.2B outsourcing deal with Tata Consultancy Services of Mumbai. Lou Dobbs is on the case. Lou may go even more ballistic once he sees the Nielsen-Tata pact, which assures Nielsen that OT worries are a thing of the past ('there shall be no additional charge for overtime work'), allows Nielsen to have unsatisfactory Tata hires replaced within 4 weeks of starting with no charge for the original or re-performed work, gives Nielsen up to 6 man-weeks of free labor when a Tata worker is replaced, and allows Nielsen to make 'any TCS Resource' disappear with no more than 5 days notice if their presence 'is not in the best interests of Nielsen.' Nielsen execs have launched a PR counter-attack, pledging not to bully 85 year-old ladies in future layoffs. In a Letter to the Citizens, Nielsen CEO David L. Calhoun explained that Tata won a 'rigorous competition' to get the job, failing to mention that Tata was also tapped by Nielsen EVP Mitchell Habib in his CIO roles at both GE and Citigroup."

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Hmmmm - interesting.. (4, Interesting)

GuyverDH (232921) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169487)

Has anyone done an audit of EVP Mitchell Habib's bank accounts and lifestyle????

It might be nothing, but then again, it might not....

Re:Hmmmm - interesting.. (5, Funny)

Maxo-Texas (864189) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169529)

I think it's time for one of those incredibly through audits.

They kind that includes a prostate cancer test.

Re:Hmmmm - interesting.. (4, Funny)

Otter (3800) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169619)

Yes, that would be quite the red flag if the former CIO of Citigroup and GE were found to have a lot of money in his bank account!

Re:Hmmmm - interesting.. (1)

GuyverDH (232921) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169741)

Just have to look at where it *came from*... yup... that's right...

Follow the money trail, then see if there's that pesky old "conflict of interest" thing going on...

Re:Hmmmm - interesting.. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24170245)

Yeah, 'cause all rich executives are honest!

My experience at Citigroup.. (5, Interesting)

KoshClassic (325934) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169495)

I was at Citigroup when Habib brought in Tata for a 2nd time. Initially, he brought them in for the credit card division. He was then promoted to CIO of North America and by then it was obvious to everyone that after what happened at GE and in our credit card division that there existed a quid pro quo arrangement between Habib and Tata. So there was no suprise when Tata was awarded the contract for all of North America, even though there was a 'competition' with at least 5 Indian outsourcing companies. I've got no idea if Habib thought that this move was really in the best interests of our company, I only know that he promptly left Citi for Nielsen right smack in the middle of all the resulting layoffs that he initiated. And anyone paying attention knew at the time that Tata and Nielsen would soon be working together, and every IT worker at Nielsen needed to get their resumes polished up in a big hurry.

Re:My experience at Citigroup.. (1)

GuyverDH (232921) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169535)

Sounds like grounds for a massive civil lawsuit... (all the workers impacted by the layoffs) aimed directly at Habib...

Re:My experience at Citigroup.. (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24169683)

Lawsuits won't accomplish anything. All they'll do is make some lawyers rich.

We as American tech workers need to stand up against this. The first thing we need to do is to refuse to cooperate in any way with any Indian company. It may mean that we lose our jobs, but it's better to lose them for taking a stand than losing them to some half-assed outsourcing company.

Second, we need to actively talk with our managers about the risks of dealing with Indian outsourcing firms. The results are always huge disasters for everyone involved, except the Indians. In short, American tech workers lost their jobs, the American businesses get shitty software that never works, but the Indians get the money. That's not acceptable, and the only solution is to avoid dealing with them.

Third, if we come across any of the shit software produced by these Indian firms, it must go. And it must be known to the management of the businesses that the software is pure shit.

If we act now, we'll achieve true results. It won't be easy, but it's necessary.

Re:My experience at Citigroup.. (4, Informative)

zippthorne (748122) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170107)

We as American tech workers need to stand up against this. The first thing we need to do is to refuse to cooperate in any way with any Indian company. It may mean that we lose our jobs, but it's better to lose them for taking a stand than losing them to some half-assed outsourcing company.

If that's your plan, then the zeroth thing you need to do is form a union. This kind of collective bargaining business doesn't work unless there's...a collective. Also, mob ties, to keep the collective in line.

yes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24169717)

TATA is even in the backwoods of Indiana stealing IT jobs for India. I can tell you from experience many of them are extremely racist and only consider other Indians people.

Just Deserts (5, Insightful)

Bonker (243350) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169547)

This is what happens when a apathetic populace lets fascism or corporatism slide. Florida is well used to letting megacorps and others who let their money talk for them get their way. Accordingly, they're the first to be taken advantage of.

Florida's not the only one, certainly. The attitude of letting money talk is endemic all over the country. It's over the entire country. Corporations want cheap labor and will do what it takes to get it. They'd prefer slave labor, but compared to Americans, Indians are cheap enough to make the bottom line look good. Human rights mean NOTHING to them.

Unless the American people stop this, it's going to get worse. WE allowed this to happen. WE allow companies like Neilsen and Citigroup to take advantage of us like this. Accordingly, WE get reamed.

Re:Just Deserts (0, Flamebait)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169627)

what does this have to do with human rights? do you think you have a right to work at Neilsen's or something?

Re:Just Deserts (1)

IgnoramusMaximus (692000) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169687)

what does this have to do with human rights? do you think you have a right to work at Neilsen's or something?

Well yes and no. The primary issue is that humans are not machines and therefore cannot be treated as such when hired by companies. There are some baseline societal "decency" rules that are in effect irrespective of what contract the company managed to foist on you. These involve sufficient notice of being fired, non-discrimination based on race or religion, safe work conditions etc and so on.

Then there is a general, society-wide expectation that Capitalism is supposed to work to the advantage of all members of the Capitalist society, not just the top richest 0.1%. Otherwise it is pointless as a "societal contract" between individuals and the society for majority of its members. An extension of that is that anyone willing to work hard has an expectation of being hired and rewarded for that work. So no, one cannot expect to work for Nielsen specifically but one can expect to find gainful employment with some company, otherwise (along with many other such indicators being unmet) the whole fucking thing is demonstrated to be a gigantic scam (which is my humble opinion of the state of the present societal arrangements around the globe).

Re:Just Deserts (3, Insightful)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170157)

i agree with you that you should have the right not to be discrimnated against based on religion,sex or race. any company that did so is mad because the only thing that should matter is your ability to do the job, and given the labour shortages we have company's can't afford to.

BUT i don't think employment should be elevated to a human right. doing so only dilutes the term and makes real human rights seem less legitimate.

and here is why it's not a human right - someone employing you isn't something you need to survive, you can easily go work for yourself if you don't like what's being offered, or you can move onto the next 100000 jobs out there.

far too many issues get taken up as a rights crusade.

Re:Just Deserts (3, Interesting)

stinerman (812158) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170209)

We have labor shortages? There might be labour shortages on your side of the pond, but we certainly don't have any labor shortages over here.

"Low" unemployment rates be damned. I know a quite a few smart college-educated people who are making minimum wage. And they're the lucky ones.

It's not corporatism, its racism (3, Interesting)

tjstork (137384) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169635)

Read the story. One Indian guy goes from American company to American company, merrily f--- over Americans to benefit Indians back in India. Has nothing to do with corporatism and everything to do with nationalism.

Re:It's not corporatism, its racism (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169663)

I wonder what sort of cut he is getting. I bet there are some kickbacks to him or to some of his family back home.

Re:It's not corporatism, its racism (1)

tjstork (137384) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169675)

I wonder what sort of cut he is getting. I bet there are some kickbacks to him or to some of his family back home.

Of course there are.

BAD MODS! (4, Insightful)

Eli Gottlieb (917758) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169759)

Parent is not a troll. He's just telling the truth. When an Indian man always hires the same Indian company to do his work for 3 different American firms, it's ethnic/racial favoritism plain and simple.

Re:BAD MODS! (1, Flamebait)

IgnoramusMaximus (692000) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169841)

Parent is not a troll. He's just telling the truth. When an Indian man always hires the same Indian company to do his work for 3 different American firms, it's ethnic/racial favoritism plain and simple.

You would have a point if a) the Indian company paid American income taxes, b) the Indian company adhered to all the American labor laws, c) the Indian company workers spend their earnings in America, amongst other things.

Why? Simply because the economic boundaries of most societies are also their national boundaries, i.e. their economies are designed to work as a unit within the national borders. If you operate inside such a unit, taking advantage of all of its benefits (tax breaks for job creation amongst others as was in this case) and then turn around and in order to maximize your profits redirect all of the economic benefits which your company is supposed to bring back to that society to another instead, abroad, it becomes a far bigger issue then mere "ethnic favoritism". It crosses the line into "economic sabotage".

Re:BAD MODS! (1)

Zorque (894011) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170111)

Or maybe it's someone he worked with previously and enjoyed the quality of work they provided. People don't have to go in a new direction every time they do something.

Re:It's not corporatism, its racism (1)

GuyverDH (232921) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169805)

Same thing happened to the company I work for... We're still digging out of the abyss caused by this, 5 years after the bastard was fired...

Software took 4 times as long to write, had so many bugs, and grammar/spelling/wording was pathetic.

Add to that the fact that outsourced workers like CSRs and data entry personnel get additional income by SELLING PERSONAL FINANCIAL and MEDICAL information of the customers of the company's that hired them...

No company that deals with any kind of Financial, Medical or Personally identifiable information should be allowed to outsource any of their positions, or software development.

Re:Just Deserts (4, Insightful)

RodgerDodger (575834) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169721)

This is what happens when a apathetic populace lets the free market or capitalism slide

There, corrected that for you.

Free market forces, along with the incentives in capitalism, says that the labour market shifts to where the labour is cheap. I thought Americans were fans of the free market?

(FWIW, I'm not a fan of the free market, and I'm not American)

Re:Just Deserts (1, Insightful)

liquidpele (663430) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169823)

Okay, first off, *please* stop with the "I corrected that for you" BS. It's almost as annoying as the "FAIL" crap on reddit.

Secondly, a free market does not mean that people should be allowed to take advantage of the market, companies, and workers. The market should also be fair. Americans are fans of free markets because of their efficiency, but we also realize that the markets have to be regulated or they become unfair (see the American History during the industrial revolution and where Unions gained power).

Re:Just Deserts (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24169975)

hehehe. Unions gaining power in the US. Or you either not American, or you are from Cosa Nostra...
Trade Unions and Workers Associations in the USA are long gone. They are just arms of the Mafia.
Please stop to dream. We love free market economy because when you get from the workers side to the employers side is just too good to crush stupid pathetic dreamers souls like yours.
Capitalism has not to do with freedom and democracy, this is a fallacy we created to crush the Commies during the Cold War.
Real capitalists, like us on the US Corp. world, really hate this stupid human rights and democracy thing.
 

Re:Just Deserts (1)

MindlessAutomata (1282944) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169993)

First off, don't pretend to speak for me.

Secondly, the free market only "fails" (what is a failure? What is "fair" supposed to even mean in the context you use it--your personal opinion on how business should operate or people should be paid? Meaningless.) when the people allow it to fail. You can talk about empowering people to vote and democracy and all that crap, but if the free market "fails" because it means certain businesses get "too large", then democracy itself cannot work as the people will allow even greater and worse failures to occur with government, as you can avoid a corporation--not so the government.

Re:Just Deserts (5, Insightful)

IgnoramusMaximus (692000) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169999)

Secondly, a free market does not mean that people should be allowed to take advantage of the market, companies, and workers. The market should also be fair. Americans are fans of free markets because of their efficiency, but we also realize that the markets have to be regulated or they become unfair (see the American History during the industrial revolution and where Unions gained power).

Actually, this is an oversimplification. Many Americans (particularly Republicans and Libertarians) are fans of the "free market" (as in pretty much 100% unrestricted and unregulated), some other Americans are for "fair market" instead (although what is "fair" is subject to debate). Then there are those in between.

The current state of affairs is however that the prevailing position amongst those in power (which is the only thing that counts in the long run) is that "free market" is a cure-all wonder solution to all economic problems and those individuals are ramming through "reform" after "reform" to that end. Those for the "fair market" are resisting any way they can (read: "feebly").

The situation is of course not restricted to America, as the same kind of forces are at play all over the world. It is the eternal battle between those who are, despite of their many protestations, sociopaths (i.e. see only themselves as the center of the Universe and all others as mere objects, to be used as tools, abused and discarded when broken, since the Universe exists solely for the benefit of its "center") and those who see themselves as a part of a bigger whole and who wish for that whole and themselves to exist in mutually-beneficial harmony where no one is left to fend desperately for himself alone and where well being of the group's members takes precedence over rapidity of accumulation of possessions. There are even those who schizophrenically attempt to have the cake and eat it too, i.e. they believe that if only the entire world was arranged with unlimited and unbound personal greed as its sole Holy Purpose, then somehow (by means magical and divine) the society would end up being the inclusive, mutually-beneficial "got your back pal" arrangement sought by the second group.

Re:Just Deserts (2, Insightful)

RodgerDodger (575834) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170269)

Aw - that's the first time I've ever done the "I corrected that for you" meme... :(

As for fair vs. free, you can't have both. Free markets are unfair places to be, because nothing in the free market provides incentives for "fair". To get fair, you need a lot of market regulation, and then it's still not clear what "fair" means, as "fair" is subjective.

Case in point: Neilsen got their tax subsidy by promising to deliver 1100 jobs, acording to the FA. After the layoffs, there will still be over 1300 jobs, so Neilsen is still overdelivering on their promise. So why are the locals made? They're still up 200+ jobs.

Re:Just Deserts (4, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169847)

Free market forces, along with the incentives in capitalism, says that the labour market shifts to where the labour is cheap. I thought Americans were fans of the free market?

How do tax subsidies make for "a free market?"

Re:Just Deserts (4, Insightful)

MindlessAutomata (1282944) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170011)

More than half the time someone brings up "free market", they have no idea what they are talking about. A great deal of the time it's projecting an idealized version of what the market is supposed to be in their own heads, like the poster above you.

A free market is an unregulated market, with no government subsidies, bailouts, handouts, or funding, where the customers ultimately are responsible for the successes or failures for business based on whether they patronize them.

If this does not work, then democracy does not work, as it'll fail just as hard or harder for the precise same reasons--apathy, ignorance, malice, or what have you. Of course, market capitalism doesn't really make decisions for you, it simply allows more or less avenues and possibilities for you to enjoy or pursue, while government steps in and forces you to do something (or not do something) at the threat of punishment.

You probably knew that--that was aimed moreso at other people than you.

Re:Just Deserts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24170149)

A free market also has low barriers to entry, allowing healthy competition between businesses. Of course, it takes a bit of oversight to ensure those barriers stay low, though it sounds like you're willing to sacrifice competition in the name of the free market.

Re:Just Deserts (1)

MindlessAutomata (1282944) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170171)

A free market is simply an unregulated market; an "ideal" market or something would probably be what you are describing. A free market says nothing of what the prices are, the barriers to entrance or, or how much competition there is. A free market is, at its most basic, one thing: products being sold and customers (be they other businesses or individual consumers) buying them for that price.

Trying to create an "ideal" market means you 1) have to prevent the masses from making a decision they would have made because they are too short-sighted to make the good "proper" decision, 2) take away freedoms because of that fact. And then "ideal" is subjective anyway--"ideal" in this case usually means "serves me the best", and has little to do with "free".

Freedom is messy and few really want it. They just want what's best for them, and they call it freedom, but it's not.

Re:Just Deserts (1)

RodgerDodger (575834) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170223)

Tax subsidies make for a free market by allowing for competition between local governments for the economic benefits of the subsidised activity, of course. What, local governments aren't allowed to take part in the marketplace too?

Re:Just Deserts (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24169933)

We American are not all hate-filled, poor-loathing Libertarians, and it's bigoted to imply that we are.

Re:Just Deserts (4, Insightful)

Toonol (1057698) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170129)

We American are not all hate-filled, poor-loathing Libertarians, and it's bigoted to imply that we are.

And yet calling all Libertarians 'hate-filled, poor-loathing' is fair-minded and liberal? I've always been amused by people who manage to reveal their hypocrisy in the space of one single sentence.

Re:Just Deserts (2, Interesting)

MindlessAutomata (1282944) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169967)

Maybe you're upset that certain laborers can out-compete local labor; normally I thought the left was all into helping other people, but then I realized if 1) someone local is losing out 2) it's being helped through getting a job then it's no good. Outsourcing isn't evil, not unless you have a populistic "us vs. them" mentality; break free of those notions and realize it doesn't matter who gets a job, you're neither owed a job nor does one owe you a job. That Indian guy getting a job or that Chinese guy getting a job probably, y'know, needs the money--but of course, since it's a job, I'm sure you'll label it "exploitation" and wave it away with some sort of communist gobbledegook about the "bourgeoisie". Outsourcing is virtually no different from exporting a product. If that troubles you you can always just enjoy fresh produce and the beautiful ty-die t-shirts made at your local commune instead and not buy imported crap.

For the left to be so quick to talk about "Othering" people, it seems to be the modus operandi when it's outsourcing. Anything to make business look bad, though, right?

Americans are not fans of the free market, at least, not really, and are becoming less so, as nobody wants to be accountable for shopping at places which may become "monopolies" like Microsoft. For every Microsoft, Walmart, or Starbucks there are many, many customers buying their products and supporting any possible shady activity they do.

The left simply wants to control people, they want them to "behave" according to their ideas of what "behaving" is, to push an agenda of economic egalitarianism because of the "power disparity" or whatever terms they'll use because they've taken the idea of "equality" to an extreme where everyone is equally in chains.

You can believe what you want, but don't pretend what you're advocating is freedom. Freedom isn't always efficient, it's not always even pretty; freedom does not mean "allowing what I like and disallowing what I don't like"; and freedom is far from "making decisions for people or preventing them from making decisions I'd disagree with or find abhorrent".

Re:Just Deserts (3, Interesting)

blahplusplus (757119) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169787)

"This is what happens when a apathetic populace lets fascism or corporatism slide."

Accurate but missing the reasons why. This is what happens when it takes two incomes, and 50-60+ hour work weeks to raise a family, add in long communtes, then on top of that add in all the distractions and whatnot and you get an overworked, overtired population with scarce little time for everything else.

If we want this not to happen we have to take people out of the market and pay them to do nothing but investigate and manage these issues, so that they can be reasonably informed instead of sheeps at the slaughter house against trained shady scientists and marketing people who manipulate them.

Treating these issues like the average person can do it in the free time is nonsense today in the increasing complexity and sophistication of propaganda sciences that take advantage of advancements in psychology, neurology, biology. Not to mention the other areas of technological expertise. It may have been ok 100 or even 60 years ago. But today it's not because of all the technology and the increasing sophistication of business using science unethically to manipulate the government, and the increasing overwork and distraction of todays society.

Most people simply do not have anywhere near enough time. To really get a grasp of todays complex issues basically means a full time commitment like a full time job for a few years, we should be using public money to 'hire' (or rather shield their wages when they talk 'time off for citizenship') random selections of citizens for a couple years and subsidize the lost wages. This way we can subsidize democracy, so they can take a few years off their job, talk to people, get informed so they can start being a good citizen. Since it really takes a long time to really grasp and read the volumes of stuff out there today.

Time is a finite resource, and the public doesn't have anywhere near enough today. Thinking the public can do it without the necessary years of time off to focus 100% on these issues shows a lack of perception in how society has changed and how complicated it has become.

Re:Just Deserts (5, Insightful)

Karrde45 (772180) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169947)

Saying "The world is too complicated" sounds like a cop-out. Sure there's more information available than ever before, but there's also far more effective methods of accessing it than ever before. Knowing how to use google and wikipedia (and evaluate the credibility of the resultant sources) can give you answers to just about any question you can think of. If people are sitting at home watching 20 hours of reality TV a week, then they have no excuse for being ill-informed.

Re:Just Deserts (1)

blahplusplus (757119) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170043)

"If people are sitting at home watching 20 hours of reality TV a week, then they have no excuse for being ill-informed."

According to actual SCIENCE they DO have an excuse, all of you who think 'the public needs ot be informed' need to see the 2nd video called Decieving images. It's the juiciest one and exposes the 'enightenment fallacy' (enlightenment view of reason), but you ALL should watch all three.

http://www.linktv.org/programs/orwell_deceiving [linktv.org]

Re:Just Deserts (1)

blahplusplus (757119) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170055)

For you that want to see it immediately, skip to 17 minutes in and watch it until 22ish minutes on the slider.

Re:Just Deserts (1)

MindlessAutomata (1282944) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170065)

Nonsense. People with an agenda always want to paint "the masses" in a rosy picture of hard-working, smurf-like proletariat struggling to get buy. The reality is the "masses" are fat off Big Macs, know they are bad for you, and don't really care so long as they are happy.

You make a lot of very vague claims, like using science to "manipulate" people; I presume you are implying the tailoring of advertisements to try to entice to buy a product or service? There is a lot of scare mongering in your post but you qualify none of it.

The average person, the innocent hoi polloi as you want to paint them, does this on a daily basis; guilt trips so someone will do you a favor, withholding some of the truth to avoid shame or to take responsibility in fear of a negative outcome; a girl using her good looks to get favors from guys is little different from advertisers using sex to sell things, and so on: these are all intrinsically human, and what you write is simply a fact of existence. It's true we are not absolutely free-acting agents but little can be done.

As for education, people have enough time to educate themselves reasonably. They are just more concerned with watching the next episode of Generic Sitcom or trying to get attention from the opposite sex to really care.

Try talking about science with the average person, and see if they care.

They don't and they'll try to change the conversation to cars or a movie or something.

The world you want to live in simply requires a type of man that does not exist.

Quite blaming "the system". The rich, the powerful, they're not controlling or hurting you. The masses are not innocent smurfs; bread and circuses applies here quite well

The reality is, and always has been, most people don't really care.

Re:Just Deserts (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24169789)

On the other hand, what's the point in being super-rich, super-powerful and super-connected if you can't do whatever you want whenever you want to whomever you want without interference from the proles? Honestly, high-quality recreational drugs and depraved sexual favors from supermodels, private bankers and those on your blackmail list can only entertain for so long, right?

Re:Just Deserts (4, Insightful)

Joebert (946227) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169857)

The market will fix itself.

Everyone in America will eventually be too poor to buy anything, forcing these corporations to target the countries they outsourced to, chasing the money. This will make room for new pioneers in American business & the cycle will start all over again.

I hope I live to see when this situation repeats itself driving corporations to the moon.

Re:Just Deserts (1)

OfficeSupplySamurai (1130593) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170257)

I hope I live to see when this situation repeats itself driving corporations to the moon.

It wouldn't be so bad if some corporations though were driven into the sun instead.

Has anyone contacted the Florida A.G.'s office? (0)

GuyverDH (232921) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169551)

You know, point them in the right direction... Sure sounds like fraud or scam to me...

Re:Has anyone contacted the Florida A.G.'s office? (0, Redundant)

GuyverDH (232921) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169725)

Uhm - wtf? my freak here again?

Let's see - company applies for massive tax credits, then fires everyone after receiving it, and outsourcing...

Yup - that sure smells of fraud alright... In order to get the money, you have to provide the jobs in Florida (AND KEEP THEM IN FLORDIA)...

This Is Not News For Nerds (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24169599)

I can't see how this story, if true constitutes news for nerds in any way.

How the fuck news about the Nielsen company make the front page here? They don't do techy things, make techy things or relate to tech at all.

Oh wait, it's another kdawson special anti-corporate story. I see now.

Re:This Is Not News For Nerds (1)

KoshClassic (325934) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169631)

Nielsen is in the business of gathering and selling information. You know, the "I" in "IT". And they have a very large IT division. So I have to respectfully disagree with you when you say that "They don't do techy things, make techy things or relate to tech at all."

Re:This Is Not News For Nerds (3, Informative)

Mongoose Disciple (722373) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169685)

How the fuck news about the Nielsen company make the front page here? They don't do techy things, make techy things or relate to tech at all.

You're quite mistaken. Their business extends well beyond TV ratings.

A friend of mine manages a team of developers there. I'm sure interested in what's going on.

Re:This Is Not News For Nerds (3, Informative)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169879)

How the fuck news about the Nielsen company make the front page here?
They don't do techy things, make techy things or relate to tech at all.

You mean like http://www.nielsen-netratings.com/ [nielsen-netratings.com] ?

People in India (0, Flamebait)

Kohath (38547) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169625)

People in India need to feed their families too.

Re:People in India (-1, Flamebait)

tjstork (137384) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169665)

Let them starve. I don't see any Indian troops fighting with the USA in Iraq. Where's that Indian help in Afghanistan? Jobs in the USA should go to Americans first.

Re:People in India (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24169819)

Why was parent modded as Informative?

There's a huge population in India, there are plenty of workers to replace lost ones, despite facing lost weekly revenues for the ones who are fired.

Why should the Indians care about US's foreign policy disasters anyways. India did not tell the US to go invade anyone. The Americans came to India because of cheap labour, you pay us, we do your work. Simple business, why are you dragging politics in here?

Re:People in India (1)

liquidpele (663430) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169863)

Why should the Indians care about US's foreign policy disasters anyways. India did not tell the US to go invade anyone. The Americans came to India because of cheap labour, you pay us, we do your work. Simple business, why are you dragging politics in here?

They dragged in politics because they were trolling. While I agree with them that companies should have incentive to keep jobs in America, trying to support that viewpoint with Iraq is extremely juvenile. The sad thing, of course, is that they were modded informative, even though they provided no information, only an opinion.

Re:People in India (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24169849)

You're a horrible sociopath if you think the only measure of a person's worth is how much they assist in somebody else's personal battles.

Re:People in India (3, Insightful)

Branka96 (628759) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169931)

India provides a lot of help to Afghanistan, trying to stabilize the country. I suggest you do a search on "India+Afghanistan". Also, the most deadly suicide attack in Afghanistan this year was against the Indian embassy (a week ago). Why do you think the militants would attack the Indian embassy? Because they are sitting idle on the sideline?

Re:People in India (1, Troll)

dbIII (701233) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170193)

Let them starve. I don't see any Indian troops fighting with the USA in Iraq. Where's that Indian help in Afghanistan?

It's a complicated plotical situation due to support for the Taliban from various Pakistani factions and the existing disputes between India and Pakistan. India in Afganistan could be a spark to spread the war furthur so it's really a lot better that they are not there.

Iraq is a completely different story but unlike the USA there is absolutely no benefit to Indian companies to participate. There is not likely to be any benefit to the Indian government either - Australia was rewarded for it's participation by a "free trade" deal that turned out to be a one sided poisoned chalice. There really is no ideological reason for them to do it either and it wouldn't take a long memory to remember the US technology sanctions on India.

All that aside I agree with you that most of these jobs are better off done by locals or at least people within the same company so there is some degree of accountabiity. Personally I think most of the outsourcing is about shifting money about on the books to make one area look good while the overall cost may have even increased. There's also a very unhealthy obsession with wage costs even in areas where it is a very tiny fraction of expenditure and where employing people on cheaper wages can drive those other costs up dramaticly. In some situations things are cheaper simply because the outsourcers are not worrying about expending extra money to deal with risks - they will get their money whether things work or not. The ultimate stupidity is outsourcing everything other than management and sales to India - especially when the Indians are far better at both of that than the average US manager or salesman and they are on the other side of the world so there is nothing legally that can be done if they hijack the entire company to sell outside the USA. In China they have mastered the act of the "second shift" - knockoffs that ARE the same product as the original just made after the end of the production run and often made at the expense of the contractor.

Re:People in India (3, Insightful)

KoshClassic (325934) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169695)

So are you willing to give up your job and your ability to feed yourself and your family so that more Indians can feed their family? If not, you've got no business saying that.

Re:People in India (1)

thejeffer (864748) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169997)

I'm willing to improve myself and prove to a company why I'm worth more to them than an outsourced worker. If they don't see that value, I'll find someone who does. Jobs aren't a right. They're a contract between two willing parties. If you're not worth any more than an Indian worker, then why should an employer hire you?

Re:People in India (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24170181)

Do you seriously think the competition is on even ground here? Simply being a better worker isn't enough when the other guy's cost of living is far lower.

Re:People in India (1)

thejeffer (864748) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170221)

Then become your own boss and hire the other guy.

Re:People in India (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24169727)

In America, we software developers don't just program to feed our families. We also provide high-quality software that allows for our businesses to be more productive, thus increasing our standard of living.

In my experience working with Indian outsourcing companies and Indian-trained programmers, the quality just isn't there. And without the quality software, the productivity of our businesses drops significantly. And so our standard of living drops, eventually reaching a level as crappy as that of India. Frankly, I do not want that to happen.

Re:People in India (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24169961)

I have to agree. I am a US citizen and TCS was my first employer after college. I couldn't believe the horrible quality of the code being produced. What's worse is the client (a state agency) was clueless as to how poorly things were being designed and how outrageous estimates for development time were. The funny thing is that the estimates were accurate because it would actually take these guys that amount of time to do the work. My point is it could be done faster by workers that actually know what they are doing and for whom the main design method is not copy-paste...This is sounding like to much of a rant...Glad I'm out of there; it was a depressing experience.

Re:People in India (4, Informative)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169765)

Yes, but it is time that India starts to play fair. The west has created many open trade policies. India is doing a china action back at all the other countries. They have total protectionism in place. For example, we can not sell there, unless there is company created there. That company must be 51% owned by Indian. When I go to India, I am charged a ridiculous rate because I am white. My SO is Indian, though british born, so we put things in her name. That way, we get charged 1/50th of the price.

Yes, I agree that India needs the jobs. So do we. But if there is to be real competition, then open your borders. And at this time, I say that we really should change our policies to match the countries that we deal with. The west has pretty open borders WRT business. Yes, there are still barriors there. But shortly, EU will throw up tariffs based on pollution as well as openness to trade. Before that time, America will have changed our attitude WRT to CO2 emissions (new president), as well to jobs.

So a question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24170049)

"My SO is Indian,"

How are indian chicks in the sack? Do they really know all that Kama Sutra stuff? Or is that just in HBO movies?

Are they open to anything? Or really uptight (like my wife).

Re:People in India (3, Interesting)

rossz (67331) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169769)

I don't have a problem with them taking whatever job than can get. I do have a problem with American companies screwing over American workers. If this keeps up, no one will be able to afford the products or services of these companies, so they're basically trying to put themselves out of business.

Not what H1B Visas are for (4, Interesting)

RevRigel (90335) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169641)

I was under the impression that H1B-type visas were for skilled workers of which there was a shortage in the US. It goes against the entire purpose of the program to say 'We can't find people to fill these positions domestically, we have to import them.', and when these are jobs that are only available because the Americans currently doing them are being fired. This sounds less like a job for the Oldsmar city council and more like a job for Congress, to address this complete abuse of the visa program. Sounds like everyone should call their Congressperson and ask them to inquire with the INS about just how and why these visas were granted and continue to be granted to Tata Consultancy.

In other words... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24169745)

It's time to say "Ta-ta" to Tata...

Re:Not what H1B Visas are for (1)

Eli Gottlieb (917758) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169793)

Read this. [slashdot.org] Most H1B visas go to outsourcing companies, with the remainder going to exactly the intention of the program.

Re:Not what H1B Visas are for (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24169965)

FYI - H1B workers would be too expensive in such a contract... These workers do not come on H1B but on L1 which has no salary requirements or number limits.

Also, Tata leads the world in the number of L1 visas - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-1_visa

Re:Not what H1B Visas are for (1)

mochan_s (536939) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169981)

Tata consulting is in India. There are no H1B visas needed. The work is now done in India instead of the US.

A Policy Suggestion (4, Insightful)

Nova Express (100383) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169649)

No private company should ever receive special tax breaks or subsidies for any reason. Instead, just lower business taxes so everyone has a chance to profit equally. Then these sorts of things wouldn't happen. It would also radically reduce the cope for corruption.

(The only necessary exception I can see to this rule is for National Security-specific products and research, since protection the citizenry is the primary function of government, and in many cases (nuclear weapons development comes to mind) that nature of the product produce precludes recoupment if R&D costs in the private sector.)

You won't get money out of politics until you get politics out of money.

Re:A Policy Suggestion (1)

RodgerDodger (575834) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169739)

These are local government tax breaks, not state or federal. Local governments give these tax breaks because the lost tax revenue is made up for by having lots of new jobs being created, and people to fill them moving into the area (or unemployed locals getting them). This stimulates the local economy, and becomes a net plus to the area.

Local governments compete with each other, offering economic incentives to win economic rewards. This is the free market at work, and when it does work, it is very popular with the local residents.

Notice that nobody's bitching that Neilsen got the tax breaks; they're bitching because Neilsen effectively broke the contract.

Re:A Policy Suggestion (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24170105)

This, of course is absolutely correct. Local governments are incompetent at best and corrupt and incompetent at worst. They simply shouldn't be competing for companies. (All such competition does is ensure that large employers always avoid these taxes -- their threats to relocate, credible or not, always lead local governments to grant these kinds of abatements.)

It should also be stressed that there is absolutely no problem with the decision to outsource -- it could end up being bad for Nielson, but as a policy matter it is absolutely essential that companies be allowed to do it.

This just in.... (4, Funny)

HTRednek (793937) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169681)

Ratings Giant Nielsen Outsourcing Workers...
In other news: ratings indicate that television shows with a strong patriotic theme experiencing a marked decline in popularity.
Back to you Rob.

It's time to knock it off (5, Interesting)

TheNucleon (865817) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169747)

Yeah, call me protectionist, and queue all the rebuttals, but it's time to just knock this offshoring stuff off. I honestly think it should be made illegal at this point. Banned. For good.

We are gutting good jobs from our economy at a time when we truly can't afford it. We are watching CEOs and other greedy executives make off with literally millions of dollars by making these decisions that take food off the table for countless US families. The people who lose their jobs to crap like this then cannot buy goods and services in America. Guess what that does to the economy? But hey, those CEOs have their mansions and BMWs! They definitely have the mansions and BMWs!

My cell phone company uses an offshore support center. Recently, I spent 50 minutes trying to get two simple questions answered about my calling plan. The rep would "put me on hold while my issue was researched". We're talking REAL EASY questions, but they weren't addressed on the website (which was probably also offshored). This experience, by the way, has happened repeatedly with this provider's customer service. Note that my cell provider didn't lose anything - I'm locked into my plan, just like most other people who suffer from the cellphone cartels. They saved money by offshoring. But I lost 50 minutes of my life, because some bean counting boogerface decided to get himself a big bonus with his "cost saving offshoring" plan. I wish I could have spoken to someone in the US - someone who would then have money to buy stuff here, and who would have answered my question in perhaps only 10 minutes. I am a consultant who is paid by the hour. Should I bill my provider for the extra 40 minutes?

Some people think that offshoring will just raise the level of jobs we have here, and make more room for higher-level salaries. BULL! Where is the evidence? Sure, a select few get to play project manager or supervisor or offshore liaison, and the rest get to go home and wonder what to do with skills they have spent years honing. By the way, I know this might surprise some of you, but NOT EVERYONE wants to be a manager. Some people here would love to have those call center jobs (or those programming jobs, or whatever). Trust me, some people would really like to have them, especially now.

Darn it! Companies that made their fortunes on US ingenuity turn their backs on the US for a quick buck, and we continue to allow it to happen. It makes me sick and enough is enough. We are stupid, especially in the face of growing trade deficits, to send good jobs somewhere else. Wait, we peons are not stupid, it's the bigwig decision makers who AREN'T ACTUALLY HURT by the decisions. We should stop them. Congress should stop them. Which would be easy, if Congress wasn't attached to them at their wallet.

By the way, I have nothing against the folks in other nations to which we offshore this work. They are doing what I would be doing in their shoes - making their best play for these attractive jobs. If you walk up and hand someone an opportunity, you can't blame them for taking it. It's not their fault. It's OUR FAULT!

Not wanting to see our own economy gutted is not the same as being protectionist. This offshoring thing was a bad idea, ill-conceived and unethically promoted. Worse, it's been shamelessly allowed by our do-nothing Congress, and even condoned by brainwashed people who drink the "it'll free us up for more high-level jobs" kool-aid. If you run a business in the US, run it in the US. Employ people here. Between inexpensive overseas goods, offshoring of services, and oil, we seem absolutely hellbent to send every bit of value we can somewhere other than here. ENOUGH!!!

Admittedly, I need to relax a bit. My typing fingers hurt.

Re:It's time to knock it off (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24169829)

Admittedly, I need to relax a bit. My typing fingers hurt.

Maybe you could outsource your typing to an Indian over the phone.

Re:It's time to knock it off (0, Troll)

homer_s (799572) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169831)

We are gutting good jobs from our economy at a time when we truly can't afford it.

You don't seem to understand the difference between jobs, income and wealth. You should apply for a job with either Lou Dobbs or Obama.

Re:It's time to knock it off (1)

TheNucleon (865817) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169885)

I have considered and rejected complex economic theories that make it a "good thing" for us to send these jobs overseas. Note that I preemptively dealt with this in my post. However, if you are up for it, please enlighten us.

Should Obama's organization call and offer me a job, I will strongly consider it. Thanks for deeming me worthy of that honor.

Re:It's time to knock it off (0)

homer_s (799572) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169949)

However, if you are up for it, please enlighten us.

Sure. [amazon.com]
You can pass that to Obama once you are done with it.

Re:It's time to knock it off (0, Flamebait)

rhizome (115711) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170141)

Sure.
You can pass that to Obama once you are done with it.

Try reading it yourself dickhead, you don't even know the first thing about it. You're just a troll with an Amazon affiliate account but that doesn't mean you know what you're talking about.

Re:It's time to knock it off (1)

homer_s (799572) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170189)

Ah yes, my grand plan was to spend all this time and try to make you buy a $10 book from a direct link to amazon.com and somehow make $1 off the transaction.

Even when you try to insult someone, you betray your lack of economic knowledge.

Re:It's time to knock it off (1)

MindlessAutomata (1282944) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170153)

I like how he's presumably into the whole unity/Obama thing and yet he gets upset over some "Other" person getting a job that presumably "SHOULD" have gone to an "AMERICAN".

Might as well get rid of any imported goods where foreign laborers or workers made it. Yep, everything's gotta be local, otherwise we're being screwed!

Of course, he holds the silly premise that just because they sell products he has to give them money for in his local area that they should only hire people in his area, which makes no sense but invokes some tribalistic anger within him.

Re:It's time to knock it off (1)

homer_s (799572) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170211)

To me, the more interesting thing is when he claims that he has 'considered and rejected complex economic theories'. But then he confuses jobs (which are a cost) with income and hence wealth.

He reminds me of those people who claim that spending billions of fighting global warming 'will create jobs'.

how would you ban it? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24170083)

Do you propose banning or highly taxing all imported goods? Even just sticking to software, that'd have a lot of consequences. For example, Ubisoft is a large French videogame company, with additional offices in Canada, which sells a lot of games to the American market (as well as elsewhere). Would you support protectionist measures that aimed to increase the market share of EA at the expense of Ubisoft? If not, how do you distinguish this case?

Re:It's time to knock it off (2, Insightful)

gujo-odori (473191) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170093)

You don't need to relax. You're completely right, and political change is usually effected by angry people. The Boston Tea Party wasn't held by people who thought they needed to relax. We need to start punishing politicians who do not support America - and the American people - first. You can bet the politicians in (some) other countries are certainly doing so for their constituencies. I have great respect for the Indian government. They're obviously working hard to promote the best interests of their country and their people. Our worthless, gutless, spineless politicians could learn a lot from them.

Re:It's time to knock it off (2, Insightful)

solios (53048) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170175)

Agreed. This kind of capitalistic darwinism has gone beyond sucking the country dry and has passed into total economic terrorism.

Thanks to the rampant, selfish, gold parachute greed of the boomers and their yuppie hellspawn, I fear CEOs more than I will ever fear Al Qaeda. They can (and do) screw up my life - and the lives of millions of others - much more thoroughly, and they stand to gain much more from doing so.... and they have nothing to lose.

Re:It's time to knock it off (1)

dbIII (701233) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170255)

The rep would "put me on hold while my issue was researched". We're talking REAL EASY questions

An easy question for somebody that works for the company, but unfortunately a bit harder to work out for somebody answering the phone for half a dozen companies. That is why it is so cheap, so bad a service and why it is so wide open for the competitor of a company to get confidential information. If you give them your credit card number or other ID you are giving it to a person a couple of steps removed from the company you are dealing with that is on the other side of the world and all parties are effectively immune to any legal action when things go horribly wrong.

Personally I think the only solution is to cut the cocaine supply to US management.

1.2B???? (1)

sitarlo (792966) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169833)

That'll buy you a huge sweatshop in Florida full of foreign workers. Why does a ratings company need 1.2B in outsourcing services anyway? This must be a corrupt deal. Somebody's getting a BIG kickback.

Poop? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24169891)

The poop hits the fan? What kind of vulgar expression is that?

the laws of economics (3, Insightful)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 6 years ago | (#24169895)

trumps nationalism

if someone can do what you can do for a cheaper price, the market gravitates to take advantage of that. not much protectionism will prevent that

people talk about politicians and laws fixing these things. there's not much a politician can do to stop the basic laws of supply and demand, there's not many laws that can be enforced against rules of economics without hurting the entire economy

the economy changes. protecting the jobs of steamboat captains or horseshoe blacksmith doesn't mean much when people start using trains and cars. you change with the world, adapat, and new opportunities present themselves. or you whine loud enough so that politicians protect your steamboat captain's job. which, under increasing pressur eof irrelevancy every day, loses its lustre and its income anyways, because the entire economy of steamboats is drying up

CHANGE, motherfuckers, do you speak it?

rather than complain about a job leaving the usa, why not train for a job that can't be outsourced? that makes more money?

you may now pillory me into oblivion. but go ahead. i hate you. i hate the story summary. to me, it represents the worst of the usa: fat whiners with a sense of entitlement. you're the worst of this country, the lowest character

i actually think outsourcing strengthens the country. it forces people to retrain. people seem to think getting one stupid job and entrenching yourself in that position for the rest of your life is some sort of nirvana. its not. its stagnation, mentally and financially. but it is nirvana for people who want to do nothing in their lives but shuffle paper on a desk and get paid more than their worth

change has risks. and plenty of people who lose their jobs to outsourcing will never get a job that pays that well ever again. such people are usually useless overpaid dead wood anyways. they deserve to work at mcdonalds, they got the higher paying job by mistake in the first place. and outsourcing is the rational economic change that shoves them down to where they belong on the economic ladder. of course they whine about that

meanwhile, anyone with any real skill and brains moves on, makes more money. the good float to the top, the shit sinks, whining and moaning the whole time. protectionism is for the weak. you're weak if you depend upon protectionism, you're the worst of this country. risk is challenging, it works your brain like a muscle. if you are too weak to stomach that, go clean toilets

those who whine the loudest, to me, represent nothing but the worst of the united states: "if i whine loud enough i get what i deserve"

no, asshole. you rise or sink based on your abilities and challenges are GOOD for you. they build you like rsistance to a muscle. or they kill you, in which case you are a weak loser who deserves no more than to be a grave digger

you don't deserve anything in life. you aren't entitled to anything. you work, you take some risk, you shut up and play the game called life, and you eventually make your mark. or you bitch and whine and moan about this or that not being fair. because you are fucking loser

now mod me into oblivion, you flabby whiny fucking losers at life. anyone with real skill is busy shutting up and moving on to better pastures and living their fucking lives. but anyone who knows nothing better, nor will know any better, than the jobs that were outsourced are sinking in their socioeconomic status, as they fucking DESERVE

fuck you flabby whiny losers. fuck you all. the worst of this country

Re:the laws of economics (1)

TheNucleon (865817) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170005)

Wow, your rhetoric epitomizes the worst of economic "survival of the fittest" in your post. Congratulations on being both profane and profoundly wrong.

We're not talking about jobs that are becoming obsolete. Your steamboat captain analogy is worthless. These are simply jobs that are being displaced. If the jobs are obsolete, why does someone overseas still need to do them?

In a job market where tasks and skills are increasingly complex, it is not trivial to completely retrain yourself because your company threw you under the bus for someone overseas who would do the job more cheaply. Sorry, that just doesn't fly.

No one said anything about locking in one job for the rest of their life. But as you'll see on job postings, companies require years of skills these days. Unless you have half a decade or more, they'll turn you away. So yeah, people get locked in by the companies, which then abandon them.

I wouldn't mod you down. I would just hope that karma doesn't someday knock on your door for your angry assertions.

Re:the laws of economics (2, Insightful)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170061)

My analogy is perfect: change. The internet means jobs are sent overseas. What can you do? You can't fight inevitabilty. Someone can do what you can do for much less pay. Go aheadn fight that. Fight the rise and fall of the tides while you are at it. Or go with the flow

And yes, retraining is hard, is not trivial. Absolutely. WElcome to life, it isn't easy

Re:the laws of economics (2, Funny)

gujo-odori (473191) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170033)

If I'm going to be nothing but a gravedigger, may I please start with yours? Note that this is not a death threat. I want to dig the hole, then you off yourself and fall in. It'll be good for society, trust me. Think of it as a form of outsourcing yourself.

Re:the laws of economics (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24170057)

"change has risks. and plenty of people who lose their jobs to outsourcing will never get a job that pays that well ever again. such people are usually useless overpaid dead wood anyways. they deserve to work at mcdonalds, they got the higher paying job by mistake in the first place. "

I hope this happens to you, asshole. There aren't any jobs left to get when they all go overseas. Soon, the Indian companies will have wealthy CEOs and there won't be any big companies left to have CEOs with lots of money in the US. We'll all be in trouble. I think we should put earnings caps on employees like some countries in europe. The CEO can only make so much percent over the lowest paid working INCLUDING oursourced work. Then when they pay an indian peanuts, it will cost them too. Worst case, they'll hire the best person for the job. If I love to someone from india because I'm not as good as them, I can deal with that. Eventually the world economy will even out. India is already much more expensive than it was a few years ago and they have worse inflation than us. The jobs will move to the next cheap place. I predict south america and africa are next on the list. Most of asia is already tapped for cheap labor.

holy shit! (1)

unfunk (804468) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170023)

...and we in Australia thought AWAs [wikipedia.org] were bad news! A few years of the Nielson Workplace Agreement down here would have had everybody gagging for AWAs as sweet relief!

my experience with tcs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24170085)

I'm a US citizen and worked for TCS for a short time (first job). I found it to be a horrible experience. My Indian coworkers were friendly; I had no problem with any of them personally. But I found the quality of the work to be horrible. Simple applications took way too long to get done. Ex. 8 to 16 hours to make a ASP .NET to display a few fields from a database, come on. Enhancements/maintenance to existing apps were a nightmare due to rampant copy/paste. Yikes - but at least I got out...They didn't seem to be trying to produce junk, but nonetheless...Anyone with similar experiences?

crime or no crime? (1)

fishbowl (7759) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170139)

So... Is anyone alleging that a crime has been committed here? As in, saying the specific law that was broken?
Or is this another case of accusing somebody of ... doing something that is legal ...

If there is evidence of a crime, the perhaps something can be done... otherwise, like it or not, you are harrassing somebody for doing something that is not illegal.

The article really doesn't make clear which it is. Legal? Or Illegal?

George Carlin Would Be So Glad... (2, Funny)

d'baba (1134261) | more than 6 years ago | (#24170259)

Now you can say tatas on TV.
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