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IT Jobs To Drop In 2009

CmdrTaco posted about 6 years ago | from the gonna-get-worse-before-it-gets-better dept.

Businesses 393

ruphus13 writes "A new Goldman Sachs IT report recently released states that IT jobs will be dramatically reduced in 2009, starting with contract and offshore developers. From the article: 'Sharp reductions likely in contract staff, professional services and hardware, and almost no investment in cloud computing.' The article goes on to say 'The CIOs indicated that server virtualization and server consolidation are their No. 1 and No. 2 priorities. Following these two are cost-cutting, application integration, and data center consolidation. At the bottom of the list of IT priorities are grid computing, open-source software, content management and cloud computing (called on-demand/utility computing in the survey) — less than 2% of the respondents said cloud computing was a priority.' Postulating a 'pointy haired boss' problem, an analyst goes on to say, '[Grid computing, Open Source and Cloud computing] require a technical understanding to get to their importance. I don't think C-level executives and managers have that understanding.' But they do control the paychecks ..."

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393 comments

number 1 priority? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24281237)

first post, of course.

Duh. (4, Insightful)

Lemmy Caution (8378) | about 6 years ago | (#24281261)

A lot of IT is an expense without adequate ROI. Huge IT support staffs were a consequence of poor products, badly implemented systems, a glut of unnecessary purchases, etc. While some IT functions will always need on-site support, better-designed systems and software (including middleware) should make it possible to reduce IT staffing costs.

Think of all the other functions that have disappeared over the past century: typing pools, filing clerks, huge mail rooms. The armies of help desk types will go the same way.

Re:Duh. (5, Insightful)

Vancorps (746090) | about 6 years ago | (#24281647)

One of the age old problems is the assumption that IT for most companies is simply capital expenditure. ROI is hard to measure for IT for most companies.

Picture a DR situation where an office is lost to fire. If the company didn't invest in adequate protection then that company is now often out of business losing entire client databases or even contracts. Now proper DR would not only save all your data so you can keep doing business but potentially you might not even have downtime as is the case with banks. This is of course federally mandated but the company I work for is a private entity and practices the same philosophy.

Then of course comes the automation, once a task is automated it is no longer reflected in ROI even though the system is still in place years later supporting it.

Course I'm one guy managing over 40 servers across five sites so I don't foresee a reduction in IT staffing anytime soon for this company.

You're right though, tight times means you spend the extra time to finish your deployments instead of investing in new projects. This means your environment becomes more cohesive and the new stuff later will snap in easier since everything will be well documented by then.

Consider the downtime a nice roadblock allowing you to audit everything you currently have to make sure you are using everything efficiently.

Virtualization for the win, we'll utilize our hardware more effectively while increasing functionality.

Truck driving school here I come! (5, Insightful)

sgant (178166) | about 6 years ago | (#24281679)

Seriously....I look in the paper and it's filled with ads for drivers. That and health care professionals. And as I would rather stick a pencil in my eye than work in health care, I figure my misanthropic ways would be better shifted toward driving.

I'm 46 and have to basically totally switch careers as there are just aren't any jobs in my profession anymore. It's over saturated. I hardly ever see an ad for IT or anything related in my area. As scary as it sounds, changing directions even this far into life may not be a bad idea.

Even with fuel prices sky-high, trucking will be with us for a while as lets face it....everything within your eyesight right now reading these words was all delivered or transported some way via a truck (unless you're looking out your window at a tree or something).

Re:Truck driving school here I come! (5, Funny)

stewbacca (1033764) | about 6 years ago | (#24281791)

And as I would rather stick a pencil in my eye than work in health care,

Keeping up the high demand for health care professionals since 2008!

Re:Truck driving school here I come! (3, Funny)

Brigadier (12956) | about 6 years ago | (#24281911)

let's see;

never being home ..check
illiterate CB Radio Banter ... check
wonderful stereo type (see above) ... check
spending nights on the side of the road ...check

being able to work in your uderoos ...pricelss

Re:Truck driving school here I come! (1)

Metasquares (555685) | about 6 years ago | (#24281941)

Surviving in a saturated market requires standing out in some way. If you succeed at it enough, you'll be surprised at how many recruiters will come to you (assuming you have a web presence, of course... but if you're in the IT field, you should). Now, I'm only half your age and consequently at a much earlier stage of my career, but I don't see why this wouldn't generalize.

But do what you feel is best. If you think truck driving is a good career, great!

Also, healthcare is not only direct clinical practice. There's a lot of work that goes into it, much of it IT-related.

Re:Truck driving school here I come! (4, Insightful)

gad_zuki! (70830) | about 6 years ago | (#24282171)

There are ads for these positions because:

1.They have a lot of turnover.

2. Newspaper ads attract certain industries. For you, you should be looking at dice, careerbuilder, etc.

Employers dont really expect IT people to be looking at dead tree medium for jobs.

Re:Truck driving school here I come! (2, Insightful)

Bucc5062 (856482) | about 6 years ago | (#24282201)

Two words...Ice Road truckers...okay I mean three words...World's Deadliest catch.

As a 47 year human, 28 year vet of the IT industry I can feel your pain. However, the road is long and he who lives in the mind can easily go batters on the mind numbing crawl that is the highway.

If possible, reinvent the skills and sell the hell out of the fact you got more life experience then those snot nosed zombies coming out of college factories (with minimal respect to current graduates). If that does not work, there is always the lottery. I got my eyes on the next power ball to provide my next career change, owner manager of an equestrian center.

One can dream...

Re:Truck driving school here I come! (1)

tekiegreg (674773) | about 6 years ago | (#24282215)

I was thinking of a big higher scale, my thinking though I have no stats to prove this is that trains are being looked at more seeing as it's a greater economy of scale. I figured train engineer school might be the best place in light of high fuel prices, thoughts?

Re:Duh. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24281851)

"A lot of IT is an expense without adequate ROI. Huge IT support staffs were a consequence of poor products, badly implemented systems, a glut of unnecessary purchases, etc" - by Lemmy Caution (8378) on Monday July 21, @06:20PM (#24281261) Homepage

Want the 'cure'? It's a LOT like "Gordon Gecko's" was in the film "WALLSTREET"...

Get rid of the mgt. that can't even code or setup a system themselves (leave the ones that can do networking of coding for example, they CAN actually be useful), much less an entire network: They're the DAMNED DRAG on things & a HUGE expense for WHAT ROI? The kind you are noting (negative/loss)?

I.E.-> After all: They MADE the 'bad decisions' you note & doubtless have seen, since they are the 'controllers', & they say "we get greater pay due to greater responsibility", what a crock of CRAP! I know, having been in mgt. for QUITE a while professionally in an organization with over 255 units nationwide (loss prevention).

E.G.-> Mgt., especially excessive upper to middle levels, are NOT production workers, period! Big deal they 'take risks & make decisions', everyone does on the job in decision making & yes, taking some risks - what makes a dolt with no experience in a field capable of leading others that CAN DO the job??

So - Is some stooge that can't do the job, worth 150k U.S. Dollars & up per year?? Hell no... not in MY eyes at least, vs. actual production workers.

Here? Well, I blame stockholders & boards of directors (but then, these mgt. clowns stick together like glue, because they HAVE to... this is about all they are good at, fucking others over, who actually CAN DO THE JOB!)

Hey - we've ALL seen plenty of that type I am sure in our time in this field (the majority of mgt., especially in MIS/IS/IT as "CIO"'s etc., are a joke (MBA + MCSE bullcrap, little to no hands on in the trenches, & not "grown internally" from w/in a companies' ranks no less)

----

Now, this is myself talking, having been a mgr. in this life for years & led an entire chain in loss prevention stats for a year straight while I was prepping for going to school for comp. sci., & I know what is what, from BOTH ends of the spectrum (workers to managers).

Why did I go comp. sci.? Well, to get "hands on years to decades in the trenches" prior to becoming mgt. in this field... I do NOT want to be one of those "fake it till you make it" b.s. cert. bearing bozos, is why. TO be the "better boss"? You had best have walked MANY A MILE in your employees shoes to understand & to know how to motivate them, AND to get their respect, too. Crucial to leading men, imo... having their respect.

----

Yes - Tou can blame THAT type of 'bungler/fake-it-till-you-make-it' so-called 'superior' for the mistakes on decisions like you note, after all - they're the blatant fakes making the erroneous decisions (& can't think for themselves usually, & hire on MORE staff to compensate & cover for their obvious inadequacies in this field.)

I.E.-> You know it, & I know it (most likely if you're a pro in this field of many years to decades @ least) - most "mgt." in this field is largely incompetents.

Most of them hire others to know what is what, the stupid fools. Piss one of your advisors off, & you WILL get 'bogus advice' that will floor you idiots, due to your lack of understanding of this field & its facets @ all levels in MIS/IS/IT (coding to networking mostly, without understanding them, you are lost - you can't fix things that are broken, until you understand them, period).

----

No, not all of them are: I've had 4 bosses over 16 yrs. time in this field that knew ONE HELL OF A LOT & funniest part is? Most of them wanted back "in" to doing the actual "hands-on" in the trenches, but, were often TOO "bogged down" in paperwork, personnel mgt. & scheduling, plus spending the budget properly.

2 of them were absolutely brilliant coders too, the other 2 were hellishly good network administrators/architects, but the rest? LOL, you know. Fakes or blatant bungling incompetents who had a job because they were family members of the company owner or majority stockholders, or frat pals with someone "high up" in a company, period.

This happens mostly in 'small fry' operations, not so much @ higher levels (take AMD's new CEO: The man's @ least got some hands-on & degrees in this field, & hopefully does a LOT better job than "Mr. Ruinz" did @ AMD, the past couple years now vs. Intel & their CORE architected CPUs).

Man! Bottom-line:

What a joke this world & field have become, when a stooge that can't even DO the job of his subordinates (much less better than THEY can) are in control... or, doesn't "bushby" only exemplify this more, @ the national political level?

Re:Duh. (1)

chris_mahan (256577) | about 6 years ago | (#24282109)

Would someone be kind enough to rewrite the post in English?

Re:Duh.Get your ADD/Dyslexia meds Chris Mahan (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24282191)

"Would someone be kind enough to rewrite the post in English?"by chris_mahan (256577) on Monday July 21, @07:41PM (#24282109) Homepage

LOL, clever (original? NOT) - so, "ahem": Would someone get the brain damaged ADD or Dyslexia victim Chris Mahan here his meds above, please, lol...

(& his first grade education as well? Thanks... well, that or "hooked on phonics" might help him!)

Hey Chris? By the way -o you have a PhD in English asswipe???

NO???? Didn't think so!

So... what makes you the 'expert' on writing idiot? I've been alive longer than you have speaking this language odds are, lol... another 'wannabe english professor', lol, in a computer oriented discussion.

Go away you waste of life. Go to some English writing forums, ok????

Re:Duh. (1)

bobstreo (1320787) | about 6 years ago | (#24281893)

Maybe so, what is the ROI of having your just in time manufacturing systems, Internet e-mail and of course access to Slashdot while you're at work? The unfortunate truth ends up, if it's working there is no ROI. If it's DOWN, then there's a huge negative ROI. So just where are the resources to better design systems and software coming from? Yeah, I though so...

I doubt.. (1)

pickyouupatnine (901260) | about 6 years ago | (#24281263)

that offshore jobs will go first. They're cheaper than local jobs.

Re:I doubt.. (5, Insightful)

Foofoobar (318279) | about 6 years ago | (#24281545)

Well having to have had to manage a team in the Phillipines, miscommunications, missed deadlines, inability to follow instructions, redundant programming, lack of teamwork or cooperation, poor scheduling and more makes the low pay only part of the cost when the overall expense of the project eventually becomes 5-10 times what it needed to be had we hired local developers.

Outsourcing only pays off for VERY well managed and VERY well organized 3rd party organizations that you can trust 100% and as a rule, they don't exist because they don't exist ANYWHERE. You need to have an onsite presence much like IBM and Microsoft has in order for offshoring to really payoff. Otherwise you are not saving anything and may even be paying more... regardless of what some pitchman may tell you.

Re:I doubt.. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24282185)

My firm works with a group down in South America of all places and it has worked out extremely well. We attribute this to the lack of a major time difference, and that their english skills are for the most part good enough that there are no real communication issues. We make sure to spec out everything extremely well, follow up with them to ensure that they understand the specs, and we write the business logic, while they make the prety gui's.

They focus on the web aspect which they excel at, we focus on our business which is our job. I think outsourcing can be done, but it just has to be managed and divided well. I am not privy to their exact hourly rates, but from what I understand they make a fraction of what a good gui team would make here in the US.

I am not saying it works for everybody or every situation, but it can work. I feel the intimidation and fear as well, for while we deride the majority of outsourced developers right now as poor in quality, they will more than likely get up to speed in time and then those of us in the rich nations are going to have to reinvent ourselves or find a niche. Remember, there was a time when the Japanese were derided as making low quality products as well- now try to find an American made TV (hint: Zenith took the last train out of Dodge some time in the 90's IIRC).

We are being marginalized much like the journeyman and apprentices were during the advent of the industrial revolution, but at least this time for every programmer in the US that loses their job, potentially a whole family in the developing world can rise out of poverty and into the middle class.

Re:I doubt.. (1)

elnyka (803306) | about 6 years ago | (#24281573)

>> that offshore jobs will go first. They're cheaper than local jobs. Oh, please. That's already happening. The supposed ROI with offshore jobs is not materializing due to a lack of quality and experience, in addition to a high turn-around (specially with offshore-based IT operations and support.) Many IT shops are already facing the reality of increasing costs in the form of loss of productivity when going "the cheaper" way. There are offshore teams that are of high quality, but they aren't as cheap as some pointy hairy bosses would like to believe... and they are finding this the hard way as they are trying to keep their budgets above the red ink. Others are still buying the offshore==cheaper fallacy, and as the economy dives down, they'll get hit hard at some point. Offshore is for IT 2008-2009 what the "new internet economy" was for IT back in 2001.

Integration (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24281273)

If there was ever a semi-mindless task that brings home the bacon, integration is it.

Make this work with that and that work with this.

Ok.
*scratches ass*
*does it*
*gets paid then laid*

bad article (4, Insightful)

jgarra23 (1109651) | about 6 years ago | (#24281275)

I didn't see any reasons backing up these postulations. Especially the downturn in contractors. Is this yet another case of these companies reporting something just so they can report something?

Re:bad article (4, Interesting)

Red Flayer (890720) | about 6 years ago | (#24281617)

The report was based upon a survey. So, the reason for the reporting is "Most CIOs we interviewed expect to reduce expenditures for contractors and discretionary IT spending". If you want reasons, you'd probably need to contact the CIOs that were interviewed. But here's my guess: pressure from owners/the board to reduce costs in the face of lower forecasted revenues.

Take the article for what it is... not an analysis of why and how companies will reduce spending, but instead the results of a survey.

Re:bad article (4, Insightful)

Vancorps (746090) | about 6 years ago | (#24281759)

Yeah, our revenue stream was less than expected for 2008 so they decided to start slashing budgets. One would think a 16% reduction in revenue would result in a 16% reduction in budget but I actually had mine cut by more than 50% and IT isn't alone here.

Executives like to use the times are tough argument to carve out more money for themselves thus making times tougher. It's hard for me to believe cash flow is low when private planes and houseboats are being bought instead of the owner reinvesting back into the company like he had already done. It's his right to do so of course since it is his money. Of course I know the ole times are tough argument is simply BS.

Re:bad article (1)

Whitemice (139408) | about 6 years ago | (#24281789)

I don't know. Most of the conclusions make sense. (a) there is allot of interest in technologies that make obvious good sense such as virtualization and consolidation and (b) little interest in technologies that have yet to demonstrate there is any "there" there such as cloud computing. And (c) "Open Source" isn't a "technology", and of course CIOs don't care about it - they aren't paid do. That doesn't mean the same CIO won't run a department that won't use and contribute to Open Source; Open Source provides a tool-chain to provide the CIO with what he wants: the things he has to present to the board-of-directors.

As for more-or-less contractors and what not? Who knows, I don't. I still don't see the medium sized business out-sourcing, and they are the places it is much more fun to work anyway. And when taken in the aggregate employ more IT staff (or any other kind of staff for that matter) than the Fortune 1000.

bullshit. they will drop maybe in u.s. (4, Interesting)

unity100 (970058) | about 6 years ago | (#24281281)

but, will they really drop globally ?

AND, since, our area, i.t., is a field that is kinda the originator of the concept of telecommuting, wont many i.t. people in u.s. be able to find work overseas, working through telecommuting ?

i dare not say demand for i.t. people will go down worldwide. its kinda impossible, since i.t. revolution is on full steam right now - we, as a civilization, are little far from trying to integrate our toilets to computers and internet.

Re:bullshit. they will drop maybe in u.s. (1, Interesting)

jgarra23 (1109651) | about 6 years ago | (#24281311)

I agree. Especially with the industry becoming more commoditized, developers and IT staff are a necessary evil these days, like the plumber or the electrician. Maybe the article means it will be harder for shitty IT staff to get work :)

Re:bullshit. they will drop maybe in u.s. (1)

unity100 (970058) | about 6 years ago | (#24281431)

even shitty i.t. staff can take on small stuff from small businesses and make a decent living these days.

Re:bullshit. they will drop maybe in u.s. (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24281549)

>even shitty i.t. staff can take on small stuff from small businesses and make a decent living these days

It's always good to hear from the voice of experience when discussing such things. Thanks for the perspective.

Re:bullshit. they will drop maybe in u.s. (1)

unity100 (970058) | about 6 years ago | (#24281631)

too much sarcasm and smarthmouthing is bad for your stomach. increases ph and punches holes in its walls.

Re:bullshit. they will drop maybe in u.s. (1)

defaria (741527) | about 6 years ago | (#24281933)

Real 100% telecommuting jobs are rare if at all available. And you're trying to say people will get across the country/globe telecommuting jobs? I don't see it happening!

well (2, Interesting)

unity100 (970058) | about 6 years ago | (#24281985)

me and my colleagues actually are telecommuting.

i kinda own my own business though. but, judging from the possibilities available in dev communities around the net, i can say that there are decent number of telecommuting jobs for many programming positions. provided that you can prove experience and track record. elance is one.

what i think is, many people who always worked in corporate culture either dont know where to look telecommuting jobs, or look down when they find them.

Re:bullshit. they will drop maybe in u.s. (1)

mrbluze (1034940) | about 6 years ago | (#24281963)

But, will they really drop globally ?

Well, IT is a commercial industry and most of it is not part of 'essential services' and so most of it is able to contract in the event of an economic downturn. You're aware of an economic downturn, aren't you? It doesn't matter how you work or where you work, if nobody is confident enough to spend money on new stuff, your business stalls.

Re:bullshit. they will drop maybe in u.s. (3, Insightful)

unity100 (970058) | about 6 years ago | (#24282047)

no, i.t. is not the same as other fields.

if you are a mechanical engineer, you may not be able to find any jobs. you cant lower your expectations and go doing plumbing.

but in i.t. we have the ability to downgrade our expectations. a programmer can downgrade expectations and work during a recession coding small contract jobs until economy gets back on track, for example. even by only himself/herself. or a network engineer/ server admin can find small jobs enough to make a living in web hosting industry in the meantime. actually many of them can turn into full time jobs. a civil engineer cant do that.

Re:bullshit. they will drop maybe in u.s. (1)

mrbluze (1034940) | about 6 years ago | (#24282225)

a programmer can downgrade expectations and work during a recession

True up to a point, and that's my point.

Not quite (2, Informative)

dreamchaser (49529) | about 6 years ago | (#24282123)

It is taking fewer and fewer people to do jobs that used to take more people to do them. Cuts in the overall number of IT jobs will continue for quite awhile. This is especially true in front line jobs like IT support and Help Desk. The former are fewer because hardware has become more redundant and commoditized; it's easy to just plop a new box down or have your redundant drives/servers take over the load while you get around to fixing it. The latter are fewer because more and more organizations are moving towards 'self healing' and 'self help' type support models.

Re:Not quite (1)

unity100 (970058) | about 6 years ago | (#24282173)

but the opportunities are also increasing. 15 years ago there were high wages for i.t., today lower, but we have elance, rentacoder and a lot of area of interest i.t. communities. people come and post when they look for some certain professional.

whilst i.t. was a corporate playground, today it has become the daily life. so people may find themselves coding an estore to a grampa from ohio nowadays.

And you propose to work for lower wages (1)

jeko (179919) | about 6 years ago | (#24282145)

than the five gazillion Indian and Chinese IT workers?

Re:And you propose to work for lower wages (2, Interesting)

unity100 (970058) | about 6 years ago | (#24282203)

everyone gets paid per their quality. there are indian coders that ask for $15 hourly, which is a phenomenonal rate for india. as you build up your reputation, you can ask even up to 40 hourly and get jobs from within u.s. even if you are outside united states.

my guess is that if u.s. it workers can lower their expectations a bit, they can survive anything. but then again they need to be not indebted with mortgages, kid college fees etc. but then again with the global recession looming these kind of commitments would be a problem anywhere in the world.

PHB gets it (3, Insightful)

larry bagina (561269) | about 6 years ago | (#24281285)

Grid computing, Open Source and Cloud computing] require a technical understanding to get to their importance. I don't think C-level executives and managers have that understanding.

In my country, we have a saying: "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" In this case, the milk is open source software and the cow is the developer.

Re:PHB gets it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24281905)

You have two cows. You kill both to eat, and take the free milk.

You mean they won't just throw money at people? (1)

istartedi (132515) | about 6 years ago | (#24281293)

Plainly, they just "don't get it". Hah! Remember that one?

Re:You mean they won't just throw money at people? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24281427)

For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares?"

Aaack! Stop it, stop it right now!

Re:You mean they won't just throw money at people? (1)

stewbacca (1033764) | about 6 years ago | (#24281813)

And "all intensive purposes" is no longer (errrrm, has never been) a phrase.

Open Source 'clouds' (1)

nurb432 (527695) | about 6 years ago | (#24281313)

Now that mosix is dead, what sorts of "general use' open source 'clouds' exist now?

I also can see a legit use for root kits like this, just make all your PC"s appear like a VM server and spread the load around.

Re:Open Source 'clouds' (1)

Whitemice (139408) | about 6 years ago | (#24281725)

Was MOSIX really about "cloud computing"? I though MOSIX was more about clusters, which isn't really the same thing.

The problem here is that most real business problems are I/O constrained not CPU constrained. So cloud/cluster/whatever is neat, but I just don't think it meets a real business need (yet) until MUCH higher bandwidth is more universally available at a MUCH more reasonable price.

Re:Open Source 'clouds' (1)

nurb432 (527695) | about 6 years ago | (#24281945)

mosix was based on transparent sharing of CPU resources across dissimilar machines, so its sort of the same idea.

if you have fiber to the desk, I/O isn't as big of a problem.

Need? I agree not yet, but it could leverage what you have better..

Re:Open Source 'clouds' (1)

Icegryphon (715550) | about 6 years ago | (#24282219)

Simple OpenMosix 2.6 is being 'Worked on' and by being 'Worked on' I mean it is at a dead stand still with no packages released at sourceforge. It annoys me so much I want to complain, Because Mosix has a 2.6 but the license screws you over.
Quick someone bug the heck out of the Simple OpenMosix 2.6 guys and lets get atleast one src.rpm package done.

Just the harbinger of the wider economic collapse (3, Interesting)

gillbates (106458) | about 6 years ago | (#24281337)

This doesn't surprise me too much. There's been a bad recession on the horizon for quite some time now, and it looks like it's coming home to roost.

For the first time since I graduated college, I'm not getting called for interviews, even for positions which I'm eminently qualified. It's getting tougher for people to find jobs, regardless of what they do. I've heard Republicans say that we're going to be in the worst recession since the Great Depression - which means that we're probably in quite a bit of trouble.

Perhaps I'm speculating a little too much here, but I'll bet the money that would have gone for IT salaries, etc... is now going into the coffers of the oil companies. Because our economy is so dependent upon oil for everything we do from growing crops to power generation to transportion, any rise in the price of oil is going to have a ripple effect.

Perhaps GW and Co saw peak oil coming and thought if we could just take Iraq, that we'd have enough oil. Perhaps they didn't understand that the loss of Iraq's oil on the world market would drive up prices - or maybe they did...

Re:Just the harbinger of the wider economic collap (1)

tthomas48 (180798) | about 6 years ago | (#24281723)

Or we could see a rebound propelled by technological innovation in green power and technologies.

But speaking from personal experience the oil companies are spending on IT. Now if they'd only spend on exploration or R&D.

Re:Just the harbinger of the wider economic collap (2, Interesting)

TheCaptain (17554) | about 6 years ago | (#24281799)

This doesn't surprise me too much. There's been a bad recession on the horizon for quite some time now, and it looks like it's coming home to roost.

I wonder if your exact area of expertise or geographic location is a factor in that? I haven't been looking for work in months and still get occasional calls to see if I am looking for work. (The most recent one was just last week, and they were looking for a 1-2 year commitment.) I've heard of some people having a hard time, and others are up to their eyeballs in work.

Re:Just the harbinger of the wider economic collap (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24281931)

Iraqs oil was up on the market before?

You are doing a little bit of fear mongering there.

I.T. and construction are taking some of the hardest hits.

Regarding the Iraq comments; (-1, Offtopic)

Jorophose (1062218) | about 6 years ago | (#24281937)

Off topic, but:

If it turns out the US have massive stashes of oil, or we can figure out cold fusion, or they use coal liquification, GW Bush will be seen as the worst US president.

On the other hand, should we run out of fuel, and he continues on to grab Saudi Arabia and Canada on all that power mongering, along with possibly Iran and Syria... He will be seen as a national war hero, a legend amongst men, the greatest US president ever, who helped his nation fend off the communist wave of the modern era...

Pund-IT? (5, Insightful)

Red Flayer (890720) | about 6 years ago | (#24281339)

FTA:

Charles King, an analyst at Pund-IT Inc., said that such hot-button technologies as cloud computing deployments may slow down. "The message here is CIOs are looking primarily to tested, well-understood technologies that can result in savings or increased business efficiencies whose support can be argued from a financial point of view," he said.

I'm sorry, but it's hard to take your message seriously when your company name is Pund-IT. From the name, I think you'd have been better off with Pun-dit. Or Pwnd-IT, which is pretty much what a lot of consultants are going to be feeling like next year.

At any rate, anyone who has been around business through a down-cycle or two would know that this is common sense. New programs, new ways of doing things, are saved for when the budget Gods are feeling generous with surpluses, not when eveyone is tightening their belts. There are, of course, exceptions to this... but anyone who thought that, in general, discretionary spending would increase over the next year really needs to have their head examined.

Re:Pund-IT? (2, Interesting)

metlin (258108) | about 6 years ago | (#24281497)

I'm sorry, but it's hard to take your message seriously when your company name is Pund-IT.

Indeed. Also, I'd definitely like to read the original GS report that the article is supposedly based off of.

Pund-IT may be crap, but Goldman is not, so it would be interesting to see the original report.

Or Pwnd-IT, which is pretty much what a lot of consultants are going to be feeling like next year.

Contractors, maybe. Consultants? Not very likely.

Re:Pund-IT? (1)

Red Flayer (890720) | about 6 years ago | (#24281553)

Well, it's anecdotal at best, but I've seen a severe reduction in consultant expenditures over the past 6 months, and I don't think that's going to improve over the next year or two. Depends on the nature of the consultant of course... but most consultants are contractors.

Re:Pund-IT? (4, Insightful)

metlin (258108) | about 6 years ago | (#24281739)

Well, as someone who is in consulting, we tend to use the term consultant to define someone who comes in, provides a solution, and goes out (e.g. strategy consulting, management consulting etc). Typically, the purchasers involve C-level execs (or other top execs) who want to define a strategy (short term or long term, business, finance or tech etc), oversee an M&A deal etc.

An example of a top tier consulting firm would be McKinsey.

Contractors are people who are hired to actually do the job (e.g. a coder who is brought in to code) rather than consult. A tech consultant in my experience would assist the architects with defining the technology strategy and choosing the right vendors, SOWs, SLAs etc, but would not be part of the implementation process. A PMO consultant would assist with the program management process, but not necessarily manage the program per se. A marketing segmentation consultant would analyze the right market segments and tell you what markets to pursue and how, but not actually do it for you.

If the economy is doing badly, people need consultants to optimize the organization, help them with the layoffs, assist them with restructuring etc. Also, bad economic conditions are perfect conditions for companies to swallow their competition and other smaller companies, so more M&A deals and an increased demand for more sales etc.

Just my two cents!

Re:Pund-IT? (1)

Red Flayer (890720) | about 6 years ago | (#24282233)

I see your point... and definitely agree, except for a small nitpick, which is why I lumped consultants as a subset of contractors.

If I hire a consultant to consult for me on a contract basis, then the consultant is a contractor. I've dealt with McKinsey, with E&Y, with (showing my age a bit) Deloitte Haskel & Sells, and with JH Cohn on this basis.

If I hire resources to serve my clients on a contract basis, then the resources I engage are subcontractors... I'm the contractor.

In the past, I've hired consultants as staff, and I've hired them on contract basis. Consultant refers, in my experience, more to the role being fulfilled, than to the means of employment.

Why this is important in the context of this discussion is that when budgets need to be slashed, often contract consultants are vulnerable, just as contract workers are. There are some consultants who specialize in areas where they are in higher demand during cost-cutting cycles, but those are few and far between. Typically, the long-term planning that those kinds of consultants engage in applies to more than the short-term budget crunch -- so demand for their services does diminish at crunch-time. That said, there are plenty of management teams (and ownership) that don't plan well in the long term, and their companies may need more consultants in times like this... I'm just saying that my experience suggests that good companies have that consulting done in times of plenty, not times of want.

Re:Pund-IT? (1)

Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) | about 6 years ago | (#24281603)

I figured their name might be "Pun'd it", given the humorous nature of their comments.

But then I actually read their comments, and they are right on the money. Why on earth would most CIOs care about "cloud computing"? It's an idea whose time will probably never come, at least for most people. It's just another grand architectural vision, with lots of consultants talking about it and a few big companies signing up to offer facilities, but where would the real demand for it come from even if the money were available tomorrow?

And though it's heresy in these parts, I'm not surprised by the ambivalent attitude to OSS either. At best, in a perfect world, it provides similarly powerful software to what most businesses already run anyway, and saves the corporate licensing fees for a few key items. At worst, it provides inferior alternatives to software the company already uses, thus incurring a productivity hit, has substandard support when things go wrong, incurs a second productivity hit on the migration, and winds up costing more in support and retraining in the long term than the commercial alternatives. In the grand scheme of things, at a time like this, that's hardly a good sales pitch for OSS.

Re:Pund-IT? (1)

Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) | about 6 years ago | (#24281665)

Sorry to reply to my own comment, but I just realised I had mis-attributed who was saying what. In fact, the final comments by the guy from "Pun'd it" are indeed quite humorous.

I'd be surprised if they start with contractors (5, Interesting)

Debased Manc (1313649) | about 6 years ago | (#24281355)

Can't speak for the US, but in the UK we're ideal for economic downturns.

We don't cost holiday, pension, bonuses or sick pay, we don't have loads of employment law red tape and we can be brought in for specific projects and timeframes and tend to come with much shorter notice periods.

Plus the public sector loves us.

We'll see a freeze in rates, maybe even a reduction, but if anything economic downturns signal a bad time for those in permie jobs.

Bob the permie coder might be on half my hourly rate, but if he's only got three months work in a year he's going to cost you more than twice as much as bringing me in for 3 months.

Re:I'd be surprised if they start with contractors (1)

jez9999 (618189) | about 6 years ago | (#24281845)

So why don't companies use contractors for everything?

Re:I'd be surprised if they start with contractors (3, Interesting)

bigbird (40392) | about 6 years ago | (#24282111)

Of course they'll start with contractors. I contracted in the UK for almost 10 years and economic downturns always resulted in contractors getting cut.

That's the whole idea behind having contractors - flexibility. Large numbers can be quickly shed without paying redundancies and without lawsuits.

I might add that the rates I was earning in 2000 in the UK (just before the huge IT cuts post Y2K) have not yet been reached again in the UK in the 8 years since.

all your money are belong to us (1)

juhan pruun (939183) | about 6 years ago | (#24281357)

in tomorrows news: Internet to be shut down in 2009. Related jobs cut. $$$ saved.

consolidate for growth (1)

fyoder (857358) | about 6 years ago | (#24281381)

There are companies who aren't constrained by money as much as by electricity. There are colos with plenty of space, yet do not have the juice to feed racks and racks of units. Asking individual servers to do more, and looking at green solutions not so much for the environment but for making the most out of the least juice makes a lot of sense when your potential growth is constrained by available resources. In these cases there's no threat to jobs, if anything it's the opposite, allowing for growth by making the most of what until recently has been essentially squandered.

Re:consolidate for growth (1)

Dan667 (564390) | about 6 years ago | (#24281641)

I'd rather have 1 rock star coder than 20 mediocre ones. If you rock, I would hire you permanently as I would get more for my money than trying to get 5 to 10 middle of the road programmers to get the same thing done. And it would be cheaper.

Re:consolidate for growth (2, Funny)

stewbacca (1033764) | about 6 years ago | (#24281825)

I'd rather have 1 rock star coder than 20 mediocre ones.

The article is about IT. They don't do code.

More out of work programmers means.... (1)

introspekt.i (1233118) | about 6 years ago | (#24281383)

...more free time to develop open source programs?

Your guess is as good as mine.

Re:More out of work programmers means.... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24281513)

Surely companies must be feeling the pinch of the US dollar on their offshoring deals.

and after the downturn, a bounceback (1, Informative)

petes_PoV (912422) | about 6 years ago | (#24281389)

This is nothing new. there have been reduction in the job market before - they've always come to an end and been followed by new investment, more jobs and sexy new technologies.

The same thing will happen again. If there is going to be a tough time (and we're certainly talking ourselves into it) then all it means is that new stuff will be delayed a bit. However, during that time we'll be able to filter out all the froth and hype, leaving us to get on with the good stuff when the money returns.

It's not the end of the world, just be patient.

Re:and after the downturn, a bounceback (0)

xda (1171531) | about 6 years ago | (#24281441)

All of this has happened before, and it will happen again. Kara Thrace is the harbinger of death.

An obvious lack of application (5, Interesting)

gamanimatron (1327245) | about 6 years ago | (#24281453)

Until someone with the correct technical understanding can actually go to their manager and (with a straight face) say, "I'll use cloud computing to solve this problem because that'll save us money and time" there's no real reason to expect anyone to get it.

Successful blue-sky projects are mostly run by strong companies in good economic times. So, not so likely right now. Someone who's playing with their own money could well take advantage of this lack of understanding or vision or whatever, but that's not really a bad thing. Unless you're stuck in cubicle land and still want to play with the latest, coolest buzzwords.

Cheer up, the outlook is great! (5, Interesting)

$criptah (467422) | about 6 years ago | (#24281503)

If you are a seasoned IT professional or somebody who is starting out, things are looking bright for you as long as you have what it takes to be an engineer. I welcome any sort of clean up or a downturn in IT economy because most of the time it means that the bottom of the IT-wannabes will be laid off. This will benefit everybody in the long run.

First of all, engineering, unlike being a pizza delivery person, requires some knowledge and a certain set of analytical skills that one is born with. You can train people to deliver pizzas and punch cards, but it is hard to train people to resolve problems or come up with elaborate solutions. While books and schools may help, you either get it or not from the very beginning. Downturn in IT will mean that people who were there just for the sake of it, will probably lose their jobs or move on. This is great for the folks who -- while being good peole -- are simply not suited for jobs in the field of information technology.

While we all cry about off-shore development labs and cheap labor around the world, we are forgetting one thing: Americans are cheap now. Due to the falling dollar it makes less sense to run costly operations overseas. With China, India and Russia on the rise, people in those countries may see little in jobs and environments that make them work for the global companies (aka capitalist pigs).I would not be too concerned about wages if I were you. In fact, bad conditions in the U.S. sent many people who are currently employed via visas overseasas. Several friends of mine have moved back to their home countries alrady because "There is nothing to do in the U.S." This happens because while U.S. economy may go down, the world's economy is still expanding and there are plenty of things that have to be done in Moscow, Mumbai and Beijing. Good fore those who go back home and establish companies there. Good for the rest of us who are here.

And finally the loss of IT jobs should not be seen as the judgement day. I found that many people with engineering and business skills are more than capable of starting their own businesses and running their own shows. If you do not belong to the first group of people -- the ones who were not doing anything productive -- and you're not on a visa -- and you cannot go back home to start something new -- use the settlement to start something new. Many large companies are losing business because of the bad decisions that were made across the corporate ladder. A bust is only a bust if you think this way. In reality, it is a great opportunity for improvement for those of us who would like to grab the bull by its horns.

Re:Cheer up, the outlook is great! (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24281831)

I welcome any sort of clean up or a downturn in IT economy because most of the time it means that the bottom of the IT-wannabes will be laid off. This will benefit everybody in the long run.

Except the people who get laid off and their families of course. Hard to see how this benefits them.

But yeah - let's force everybody who doesn't meet your standard of what an ITer should be onto welfare then do some more of that "decrease the surplus population" thing. Yay food riots - yay poverty!

Thanks for your insight Ebenezer - its been a real slice.

Grid computing, open source and cloud computing (0, Redundant)

bugs2squash (1132591) | about 6 years ago | (#24281509)

Don't have the backing of microsoft telling the C series execs what to think.

They should rename themselves Masonsoft.

Re:Grid computing, open source and cloud computing (1)

Whitemice (139408) | about 6 years ago | (#24281681)

Or possible these things just have no business value. I know that grid and cloud computing have no interest for me or my employer - computing power isn't the problem, it is cheap and plentiful.

Making applications with business value is the hard part, that requires smart people, which are scarce. Not just programmers, but management that can articulate what is needed, and a front-line of users who can spear head the adoption of better practices. That is the hard part. Partitioning resources, especially in a virtualized environment, isn't rocket science for most businesses.

Maybe these priorities are right on the money.

Cheap Shot (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24281999)

Why take the cheap shot at Microsoft? They are not even mentioned in the article?

Why I do trust this survey, but see it as flawed.. (2, Insightful)

RyanFenton (230700) | about 6 years ago | (#24281567)

Software development isn't something you do as a businessperson because you want to pay for people to work on computers - it's something you do because you want something made or done.

Businesses will still want things made, and they will still want things done, because they are still going to be responding to a changing market, and they still want to be able to make new stuff, or change the stuff they currently make.

Software may be expensive to develop and test, but it's still one of the cheapest things you can mass produce, and one of the cheapest ways you can modify an existing product line to expand your market.

The emphasis will certainly be on return on investment - and there will be very nice plans on exactly how to spend the least possible, but the moment the competition has a feature that looks to harm the product line, *gasp* - suddenly the design for the product will have to be retrofitted, testing will have to be expanded, or the product release cycle will have to be accelerated to get that new feature in!

I completely understand this survey though - while companies do care if they end up spending more than they initially estimated, they just need to estimate low costs now, thanks to economic pressures to show the illusion of fiscal improvement and concern for the shareholder's resources.

So to show productivity when all you have are plans, you plan to make better features, spend less, and beat the competition - then ask for more money when you have more to show, which would only go to waste if you stopped now.

What this illusion accomplishes is a bit backwards though - there simply won't be as much open planning of large software project, and more emergency dollars and small contracts. You end up spending much more - much like the shift towards low cost estimates, but then using contractors and emergency spending in the Iraq war. It's the way the game tends to be played in poorly planned business and government - and it's very alluring if you only care about a small set of things going into it.

Ryan Fenton

Oh no! (3, Insightful)

TheDarkener (198348) | about 6 years ago | (#24281583)

Someone in the media said I.T. jobs are going to drop next year? They *MUST* be able to tell the future! =p

On a serious note, I'm glad I.T. jobs are going to decrease. Hopefully it will align with I.T. jobs demanding more expertise and more actual work getting done, instead of having a "cloud" (or "grid", if you will) of Windows-only support drones reading scripts to you over the phone while you try to get support for a purchased product.

I think it'll go the other way... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24281901)

IT jobs will become a "skilled labor" job - i.e. blue collar.

Re:Oh no! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24282131)

Considering that there are a large number of U.S. banks that are insolvent at the moment, its not surprising the decision has been made now to cut next year. Its just going to take about a year to reach out and touch you.

There are some h1-b people I know that are upset about the dollar. Its very expensive to fly the family to and from India. The dollar exchange rate is not as good as it use to be. It is possible the dollar could loose another 30% in the near future because of all the bad loans in the U.S. Just have to tell them the more they screw the american worker the lower the rate will be! The wheel turns...

I am with Bjarne on this one (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24281613)

I am with Bjarne on this one.
Bjarne Stroustrup, creator of the C++ programming language, claims that C++ is experiencing a revival and
that there is a backlash against newer programming languages such as Java and C#. "C++ is bigger than ever.
There are more than three million C++ programmers. Everywhere I look there has been an uprising
- more and more projects are using C++. A lot of teaching was going to Java, but more are teaching C++ again.
There has been a backlash.", said Stroustrup.

He continues.. ..What would the world be like without Google?... Only C++ can allow you to create applications as powerful as MapReduce which allows them to create fast searches.

I totally agree. If Java ( or Pyhton etc. for that matter ) were fast enough why did Google choose C++ to build their insanely fast search engine. MapReduce rocks.. No Java solution can even come close.
I rest my case.

Re:I am with Bjarne on this one (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 6 years ago | (#24281929)

Except C++ (like Java) is just a real horrendous language. I absolutely loathe C++.

Re:I am with Bjarne on this one (4, Funny)

Surt (22457) | about 6 years ago | (#24282021)

What would the world be like without Google?

Well, it would have a few more dissidents.

Another empty pundit pontificating (3, Informative)

postbigbang (761081) | about 6 years ago | (#24281669)

Goldman Sachs IT, eh? Yesterday it was Gartner. These are guys with funded track records of largely failure, IMHO. I wouldn't give them much creedence. The industry is ripe and rife with change, be it the blossoming of mobiles/cells to the enormous competitiveness of online commerce platforms, incredible changes in entertainment delivery systems, etc.

There's a small problem in the US economy that will actually be improved no matter who is elected US president, as it always is a honeymoon between investors and the new government every four years. And it's very likely that with a new regime will come a drastic cut in oil prices.... further spurring money back into tech, where we've made the most gains in the past few decades.

Gotta love a doom sayer; it's done so they can by the stock cheaper now, then sell it higher later. This is called capitalism, and the propaganda is called marketing.

Or Maybe (1)

thirtimecharm (1253100) | about 6 years ago | (#24281689)

C - Level executives realize that the technology needed to make the experience persistent for their end users when using cloud computing is iffy at best. Ask our friends using Google Mail, GDocs and me.com how that is going Maybe once there is a cloud of 4G wireless covering the US with enough redundancies.

I guess it's time to jump ship (4, Interesting)

bogaboga (793279) | about 6 years ago | (#24281709)

Well, I think I should prepare to jump the IT ship pretty soon. My friend, with whom we were in this IT sector, jumped to the health-care field.

His Bachelor's and two Masters degrees in the IT sector at age 37 helped him get admission into one of the most coveted Nursing courses. He now practices as a nurse manager, earning close to US$80K. This does not include part-time work which he has to run away from.

This fella makes close to US$145K. I envy him. Guys, the health-care field is booming. Reports say nurses are in short supply and this will be the case for another three decades!

I am seriously considering jumping ship before it's too late.

Question is: Am I wrong?

Re:I guess it's time to jump ship (2, Insightful)

justinlindh (1016121) | about 6 years ago | (#24281883)

Happiness isn't money. Happiness is doing something that you enjoy during your 8 hour workday. I'd MUCH rather make a lesser salary than your nurse friend and solve problems for 8 hours a day than changing people's IV's and checking people's medical charts. Yes, I'm over generalizing the nurse... but my point is that if a career like that sounds equally as enjoyable as your IT career to you, then by all means... jump ship.

Here's my worry (1)

bogaboga (793279) | about 6 years ago | (#24281967)

I worry that I might be pushed off the ship at some point not far from now. Since I must have some form of income to survive in today's America, I thought that being pro-active and NOT being reactionary is better, when the inevitable happens.

By the way, I agree with you that happiness is not money - how can it be? For many, including yourself I guess, money is an important part of happiness.

If you can be really happy with zero income, accept my apologies.

Re:I guess it's time to jump ship (1)

defaria (741527) | about 6 years ago | (#24282009)

Definitely.

Let me get his straight - he's making $145K in IT and jumped to nurse manager for a whopping $80K!?!?

Sounds like a drastic cut in my book.

But, by all means, if you can't figure out this math then I do seriously suggest you jump to healthcare too. Just let us know which hospital/practice your at so we can avoid it!

Re:I guess it's time to jump ship (1)

Surt (22457) | about 6 years ago | (#24282083)

Do you want to be a nurse, do you want to be in IT, or do you not care and want to optimize for maximum likelihood of having a job, or do you want to optimize for maximum earnings?

If you want to be in IT or optimize for maximum earnings, stick with IT and get good at it. If you can't get good at IT, go for nursing.

If you want to be a nurse, be a nurse.

If you want to optimize for maximum likelihood of having a job, be a nurse. Specialize in elder care. There is a huge segment of the population that is going to need elder care soon. If you like changing adult diapers, there is going to be endless employment for you.

Re:I guess it's time to jump ship (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24282099)

If you like the work, do it.

Personally I don't really like sick people, so I'd make a lousy nurse.

Nursing? I love IT! (1)

roster238 (969495) | about 6 years ago | (#24282165)

I work in Healthcare IT. Sometimes when I think I have stress to deal with I walk to a patient care floor and watch what the nurses do for a living. I have seen a nurse changing a mans diarhea filled diaper in one bed while the patient in the other bed began to vomit violently. She helped both patients clean themselves with a smile telling them not to worry about the mess. This often helps me realize how much I love working in IT.

World still manages to function without geeks (1)

sundarvenkata (1214396) | about 6 years ago | (#24281717)

>>>C-level executives and managers do not have that understanding This kind of geek bone headedness is what irritates me sometimes. Have you ever thought that they think about the actual prohibitive maintenance cost (instead of the *insert uber-geek cutting edge stuff*) involved in these things?

Silver lining (1)

krkhan (1071096) | about 6 years ago | (#24281787)

Open-source shall finally be getting more developers. I mean, KDE 4 might actually get some people to use all those hip-new-technologies-and-APIs-that-no-one-has-used-yet-but-are-awesome-anyway.

The writer is clueless!!! (2, Insightful)

roster238 (969495) | about 6 years ago | (#24281793)

The statements that Cloud Computing, grid computing, and open source software are not priorities is ludicrous. These are tools that are used to solve problems. It's like saying a hammer is a priority rather than building a house. No C?O will ever say that these are priorities while they may say that virtualization is a priority because it is often considered a project to virtualize as much as possible for DR and to cut costs. If spending on IT does dip we all know that only the bottom 10% will get their walking papers. I would assume that Charles King will be one of them.

np. we'll just move into finance or real estate (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24281857)

Oh wait...

Not what I've heard (4, Interesting)

lilfields (961485) | about 6 years ago | (#24281915)

My sister is in the higher-ups of a large healthcare corporation, and she has just told me a few weeks ago that they are actually short of IT personnel and are going to start hiring them straight out of college, when normally they would require previous work experience. Then again, Goldman Sachs seems to talk their own books, not to say they aren't a great firm...but, they aren't always right but seem to cause a significant short term impact on markets.

Re:Not what I've heard (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 6 years ago | (#24282067)

IT is like any other industry. It will have its ups and downs with the economy, though some sectors and some companies will go against the trend. In my neck of the woods, the biggest problem is a lack of experienced technical staff. Colleges seem to be pushing out lots of guys with pieces of paper, but what a lot of businesses want is people who have actually demonstrated abilities. I can well believe that the shit-end of the profession; that is the call center guys and the other assorted bottom rung $12-$15 an hour types may find themselves out on the street, but I don't see the same thing happening to those with actual skill sets, and in particular those with generalized skills. All those Windows-drones who think networking begins and ends with some shitty Dlink router and a Windows server are probably going to find themselves in some trouble.

Cloud computing does NOT take techs to understand (0, Redundant)

The-Trav-Man (913000) | about 6 years ago | (#24282065)

Quite the opposite, cloud computing takes marketing savvy and buzzword compliance to understand.

It's re-branded SOA, end of story

Re:Cloud computing does NOT take techs to understa (2, Interesting)

DragonWriter (970822) | about 6 years ago | (#24282139)

Quite the opposite, cloud computing takes marketing savvy and buzzword compliance to understand.

It's re-branded SOA, end of story

Cloud computing is not the same thing as Service Oriented Architecture in the same way that the interstate highway system isn't the same thing as an automobile.

Re:Cloud computing does NOT take techs to understa (1)

The-Trav-Man (913000) | about 6 years ago | (#24282205)

So you're saying that cloud computing is infrastructure to support SOA?

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