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Vector Graphics Lead Wish List For Future Browsers

timothy posted about 6 years ago | from the unlisted-options-involved-pornography dept.

Graphics 321

Coach Wei writes "Community voting results and a summary report have been published from OpenAjax Alliance's recent "community wishlist for future browsers" effort. When the voting closed on July 13th, 222 people participated in this open community initiative, with 143 people voted, 55 feature requests being written up, and contribution from many industry leaders. The voting indentified and prioritized 37 features. The top 10 are related to vector graphics, security, performance, layout, rich text editing, Comet, audio and video. Among all the feature requests, 2D Drawing/Vector Graphics is clearly the most desired feature by the community. It received most votes (110 people voted for it), and highest total score (over 10% higher than the second feature request). Looks like that it is time for all browsers, in particular, IE, to seriously consider supporting standards-based vector graphics."

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321 comments

"Community" ? (4, Interesting)

qoncept (599709) | about 6 years ago | (#24291583)

I don't think the OpenAjax Alliance's poll reaches quite what would constitute the "web browser users" community. I'm also trying to figure out what the "particularly Internet Explorer" comment meant. Not that I read the article..

Re:"Community" ? (5, Informative)

AKAImBatman (238306) | about 6 years ago | (#24291639)

Internet Explorer is the only major browser to NOT implement SVG and Canvas. Which is a major failure on Microsoft's part. One might almost say that they're intentionally trying to prevent the adoption of standards that could replace their proprietary APIs like VML and ActiveX. Almost, anyway. It's not like Microsoft has a history of not implementing the DOM standards or anything.

(*Hint!* That was sarcasm. Microsoft fails miserably at implementing the DOM2 standards.)

Re:"Community" ? (5, Insightful)

IdahoEv (195056) | about 6 years ago | (#24292173)

Internet Explorer is the only major browser to NOT implement <insert ANY interesting/useful non-proprietary feature or open standard here>

There, fixed that for you. The only thing MS is ever first on are the things that can't be implemented in any other browser because MS owns the technology.

Re:"Community" ? (0, Redundant)

mdm-adph (1030332) | about 6 years ago | (#24291643)

I'm also trying to figure out what the "particularly Internet Explorer" comment meant. Not that I read the article..

I'd assume it's a stab at IE's very poor Canvas graphics support (something I've heard about). I don't work with graphics so I wouldn't know for sure, however.

Re:"Community" ? (5, Funny)

Culture20 (968837) | about 6 years ago | (#24291737)

But all 222 "web browser users" worldwide voted. Unless someone voted twice.

Re:"Community" ? (2, Informative)

bunratty (545641) | about 6 years ago | (#24291861)

I don't think the poll was aimed at browser users. It was aimed at web developers, in particular, Ajax developers who are creating new, interactive websites.

and 222 votes? (1)

cliffski (65094) | about 6 years ago | (#24292413)

not to mention that 222 votes is statistically irrelevant. Only a fool would base any business decision on such a woefully small sample size.

Damn graphic artists... (2, Interesting)

mdm-adph (1030332) | about 6 years ago | (#24291605)

...keep your art out of my code (and off my lawn)!

Native JSON should clearly be at the top of this list. I call shenanigans.

Re:Damn graphic artists... (1)

zbend (827907) | about 6 years ago | (#24292417)

How do you have native JSON? I thought JSON was basicly just using javascript arrays for ajax transfers instead of xml, am I missing something?

Re:Damn graphic artists... (1)

mdm-adph (1030332) | about 6 years ago | (#24292637)

I'm pretty sure that most browsers today (that I'm aware of) still have to convert the JSON objects back and forth into strings to communicate with the server.

Re:Damn graphic artists... (1)

Joebert (946227) | about 6 years ago | (#24292421)

Native JSON should clearly be at the top of this list.

Huh ?!

I could have sworn JSON was adopted as a method of transfering data from server to client instead of XML because JS Object Notation was already something native to browsers.

I only have about 5 years of experience with Javascript, so I could be wrong.

Re:Damn graphic artists... (1)

mdm-adph (1030332) | about 6 years ago | (#24292593)

It hasn't been adopted officially, hence the use of "eval()" to turn it into a JSON object. Otherwise, it's still just a string. :(

I'm gussing "Native JSON" would be able to accept a string from the server, automatically turning it into a JS object.

Re:Damn graphic artists... (1)

Joebert (946227) | about 6 years ago | (#24292689)

I don't know, something about this still sounds redundant.

Re:Damn graphic artists... (3, Informative)

mdm-adph (1030332) | about 6 years ago | (#24292887)

Trust me, that's why it's called JavaScript object "notation" -- it's not actually a JavaScript object. You still have the extra step of converting it out of string form when you get it from the server.

Re:Damn graphic artists... (1)

moderatorrater (1095745) | about 6 years ago | (#24292723)

But it's implemented everywhere and quite easily. JSON is, by definition, native javascript code, the only part that gets added is the validation to ensure that no other code sneaks in at the same time. Asking for native JSON support in javascript is like asking for native array support in C.

we'll vector you right up (5, Funny)

spazdor (902907) | about 6 years ago | (#24291617)

Guys, guys.
We've got it covered. Just close your eyes, bend over, and wait for Silverlight.

Hopeful in regards to Silverlight? (1, Insightful)

Enderandrew (866215) | about 6 years ago | (#24292453)

Maybe I'm drinking the Kool-Aid here, but I'm a little excited for Silverlight.

* Microsoft assisted with a Linux version, even though the Linux version is OSS, and the Mono guys own that code.
* Silverlight supports Firefox as well as IE.
* Silverlight supports 32-bit and 62-bit browsers.
* From what I've read (I'm a shitty web designer who only barely knows PHP and CSS) scripting in Silverlight is easier and more efficient than in Flash.

Adobe has zero intent of really supporting Linux, nor 64-bit. Silverlight is better than any alternative out there right now. So why all the hate?

If Apple released Silverlight, I imagine the community response would be vastly different for the same platform.

Re:Hopeful in regards to Silverlight? (1)

AngryLlama (611814) | about 6 years ago | (#24292641)

I knew it! Silverlight supports 62bit browsers, and not 64bit browsers. There is the catch. I wonder if Microsoft has a patent on 62bit computing?

Seriously though, Silverlight does seem nice, and I actually do hope it is a Flash-killer. At least, some competition is always welcome. Especially if MS is actually playing nice. However, Silverlight is no excuse to lack proper SVG/Canvas support.

Re:Hopeful in regards to Silverlight? (1)

Gewalt (1200451) | about 6 years ago | (#24292667)

Then we shall wait til next month, when apple does release one.

Re:we'll vector you right up (1)

Joebert (946227) | about 6 years ago | (#24292521)

Just close your eyes, bend over, and wait for Silverlight.

That has inspired me to install a traffic signal over my headboard.

Re:we'll vector you right up (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24292761)

For Open Source guys,
JavaFX will cover all your needs... and you'll not need to bend over. It may be late but I think it will be a real Internet Tsunami. Time will tell.

Vector graphics can't work (4, Funny)

Mordok-DestroyerOfWo (1000167) | about 6 years ago | (#24291619)

Where I work we're constantly scaling our web software needs to fit the situation, and I have yet to be able to cross a vector and a scalar!
<ducks>

Re:Vector graphics can't work (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24292317)

Here I was trying to dot a vector and a scalar thinking I had the biggest problem in the world! You certainly do, sir!

SVG ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24291621)

I tought SVG is already implemented in most modern browsers...

Because too many end users still use IE (4, Insightful)

tepples (727027) | about 6 years ago | (#24291833)

I tought SVG is already implemented in most modern browsers...

Not when you weigh each browser by its usage share on home and business workstations. As long as Windows Internet Explorer doesn't implement SVG, and as long as Windows Internet Explorer has more than 50 percent usage share, "most modern browsers" don't implement SVG.

Re:Because too many end users still use IE (1)

mdm-adph (1030332) | about 6 years ago | (#24291883)

You mistake IE for a modern browser. Be mindful of the fact that the only reason why you're still not using a seven year old release of IE6 is because Firefox lit a fire under their ass.

Re:Because too many end users still use IE (1)

Haeleth (414428) | about 6 years ago | (#24291995)

Semantics is a fun game, but being realistic, if you don't consider the market leader to be a "modern browser" then the concept is pretty useless, because pretty much anyone writing a modern web site is likely to want to cater for IE users -- however much you might wish they'd upgrade to a better product like Firefox, Opera, or Safari.

Re:Because too many end users still use IE (1)

mdm-adph (1030332) | about 6 years ago | (#24292167)

Hey, I'll agree it's a bit of semantic fun to make fun of IE, but it's up to us to try and influence users to start using decent web tools (no, IE is not decent). It's not like web application designers are advocating the use of something superfluous (like Gnome over KDE or something) -- IE is a very, very poorly made browser (though, it's getting better, slowly).

Re:Because too many end users still use IE (2, Interesting)

Sloppy (14984) | about 6 years ago | (#24292565)

but being realistic, if you don't consider the market leader to be a "modern browser" then the concept is pretty useless, because pretty much anyone writing a modern web site is likely to want to cater for IE users

I'd say that making "modern" become a synonym of "widely deployed" is what makes the concept useless. If you want to write a modern website, it's ok to exclude MSIE. If you want to make a popular website, then perhaps it doesn't. But why can't we say "modern" when we mean modern and say "widely deployed" when we mean widely deployed?

Trashing the language and changing the meaning of words can sometimes be ok, but in this instance, it doesn't get you anything because words that mean what you want to say, are already available. But it also comes with a cost (now we need a new word that means what "modern" used to). It's a cost with no gain: a net loss no matter how you look at it. So why do it?

Re:Because too many end users still use IE (1)

dave420 (699308) | about 6 years ago | (#24292147)

That is complete guesswork on your behalf, obviously. Unless you are in on the IE development meetings, of course, which I seriously doubt.

Re:Because too many end users still use IE (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | about 6 years ago | (#24292487)

Hey, they have IE8 coming up which borrows features from Flock in the way that IE7 borrowed all their features from Firefox. IE8's compliance mode often renders "compliant" code worse than IE7, and it is boat loads slower. Oh, and still no SVG/Canvas support. But IE8 will be the newest, most-modern browser on the market!

Re:Because too many end users still use IE (1)

Billhead (842510) | about 6 years ago | (#24292223)

Internet Explorer is one modern browser.
Firefox, Safari, and Opera together are three modern browsers.
I honestly don't know about the Safari and Opera's SVG implementations, but assuming they support SVG, 1 3.

Re:Because too many end users still use IE (1)

Billhead (842510) | about 6 years ago | (#24292271)

That is supposed to read "1 < 3"

Isn't that called VRML? (2, Insightful)

mmell (832646) | about 6 years ago | (#24291669)

8^O

Re:Isn't that called VRML? (1)

Svet-Am (413146) | about 6 years ago | (#24292035)

exactly what I was thinking when I read TFA. We've already been here before and the industry decided that it didn't want vector rendering of the web.

Re:Isn't that called VRML? (1)

Joebert (946227) | about 6 years ago | (#24292599)

the industry decided that it didn't want vector rendering of the web

That was when vector artists had artistic abilities of a rubber stamp.

Alot has changed since then.

Re:Isn't that called VRML? -- No (1)

Culture20 (968837) | about 6 years ago | (#24292775)

I suppose at a basic level they're the same thing; rendering a 2D image on the desktop from a mathematical function, but their implementations are very different. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRML [wikipedia.org] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SVG [wikipedia.org] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_graphics [wikipedia.org]

yea. ajax. it has given us so much (3, Insightful)

unity100 (970058) | about 6 years ago | (#24291689)

and also openajax alliance constitutes what we call 'browser users' on the internet ...

that alliance should try to make ajax actually something of use to the internet, rather than trying to shape future browsers to their preference by staging limited scope polls and then pushing it as browser community's preferences.

or, we can just kill all buzzword crowd and get it over with.

"Override Back Button Event"??? (5, Interesting)

PontifexPrimus (576159) | about 6 years ago | (#24291691)

Ok, I'm normally a peaceful person, but if someone invents a way to trap me on a page and disable my back button I'll hunt that guy down and kill him. Seriously. I understand that AJAX doesn't play well with the back button, but if this cancellation of functionality is implemented so that every site can deploy it easily it will break the web as we know it.

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (0, Flamebait)

mdm-adph (1030332) | about 6 years ago | (#24291749)

Do a lot of web development? This is one feature I would love -- users can completely destroy how a web app works just by clicking on the back button and asking "where'd all my data go?"

And nothing "traps" you in a page; just close the tab.

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (2, Interesting)

repvik (96666) | about 6 years ago | (#24291825)

And nothing "traps" you in a page; just close the tab.

That kills the browsing history of that tab. Thank you very much for trapping me on that page.

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (1)

mdm-adph (1030332) | about 6 years ago | (#24291925)

Well, if you're using a decently made web app it's going to have opened in its own personal tab/window anyway. No history concerns that way.

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (2, Insightful)

repvik (96666) | about 6 years ago | (#24292057)

Well, if you're using a decently made web app it's going to have opened in its own personal tab/window anyway. No history concerns that way.

If a web-app is well made, all is well. But this is going to be abused by those too lazy to make a good webapp. Anyway, if a webapp opens in a new window, will it ever have a history to go "back" to? Will the back-button even be enabled in that case?

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (1)

mdm-adph (1030332) | about 6 years ago | (#24292101)

Anyway, if a webapp opens in a new window, will it ever have a history to go "back" to? Will the back-button even be enabled in that case?

You make a good point (using a new window is how I do things). I guess I was just playing Devil's Advocate -- to be honest, I wouldn't even need this feature. :P

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (3, Insightful)

bberens (965711) | about 6 years ago | (#24292075)

I don't consider any webapp that opens its own special window to be decently made. The window I open you in should be quite sufficient tyvm.

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (1)

mdm-adph (1030332) | about 6 years ago | (#24292235)

Do you like all system applications to open in the same window, too?

What if you need to get information from another web page to use in the application page?

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (4, Insightful)

pjt33 (739471) | about 6 years ago | (#24292353)

Then I right-click the link to the webapp and choose "Open in new window". In fact, as a browser user, the number one feature I'd like to add is an item in that popup menu: "Open in this tab".

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (1)

mdm-adph (1030332) | about 6 years ago | (#24292451)

There's actually a feature in the TabMixPlus extension for Firefox that allows you to force this behavior. Try it out!

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (1)

amRadioHed (463061) | about 6 years ago | (#24292411)

No, if it's decently made then it will open in the my browser window, or a new tab if I chose. Gmail and google maps are both decently made I think and they don't refuse to open in the current tab. They don't disable my back button either.

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (1)

mdm-adph (1030332) | about 6 years ago | (#24292561)

Aye, but isn't there the possibility of data loss if you go back in the history?

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (5, Insightful)

Overzeetop (214511) | about 6 years ago | (#24291847)

As an end user and a project manager, I'd have to ask you why your code doesn't allow such a possibility. Not that I don't understand the added effort and difficulties (okay, technically, I don't; I don't program for the web), and it would suck to have to make it all work properly, but that's kinda your job.

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24292329)

The problem is the back button causes a very very very large break in the sanity of web applications. You can kiss a consistent state goodbye. Creating programs that can work correctly in nearly any state at any time is practically impossible. Disabling the back button isn't about being lazy, it's about bring some sanity back to the model.

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (5, Interesting)

Mongoose Disciple (722373) | about 6 years ago | (#24291891)

Do a lot of web development? This is one feature I would love -- users can completely destroy how a web app works just by clicking on the back button and asking "where'd all my data go?"

They sure can. This might put the onus on you as the web developer to build a smarter app. Or to not build that particular as a web browser app at all. You've got options, and it's not like the back button is a new feature that's surprised you and thrown off your assumptions.

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (1)

mdm-adph (1030332) | about 6 years ago | (#24292017)

Unfortunately, there's very little you can do in the situation about an application's intelligence -- the web browser is basically your development environment for web apps (and one that wasn't originally intended to be such), and things like the back button are (almost) unavoidable frustrations.

And do you honestly think I'm choosing the web as a platform? It's what I'm told to do, so I do it. :P

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (4, Insightful)

Jeffrey Baker (6191) | about 6 years ago | (#24292129)

If you consider yourself a "web developer" and don't know how to manipulate the URI fragment to make the back button work with AJAX, then you should just quit right now and become a politician or a lawyer or something. The back button is fundamental and all AJAX applications should work with it.

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (2, Insightful)

mdm-adph (1030332) | about 6 years ago | (#24292281)

Hey, that's a bit harsh, don't you think? I develop for the web. Just because I don't use every trick of the trade, you shouldn't try to call me names (lawyer).

Should I not call you a "car driver" because you can't do the Nurburgring in 8 minutes? No, because that would be silly.

(Or, like has been said elsewhere, just open a web app in a new window/tab. Problem solved.)

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (2, Insightful)

Mongoose Disciple (722373) | about 6 years ago | (#24292257)

I do web development work. I'm not completely talking out my ass here. You do have some options.

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (0, Redundant)

mdm-adph (1030332) | about 6 years ago | (#24292323)

Never said you were. ;)

And yes, you can open an app in a new window. No history problems.

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (1)

fracai (796392) | about 6 years ago | (#24291911)

Seems like instead of a trap there needs to be a mechanism to override the back action and deal with it as appropriate. Or is that what was originally meant by "trap"?

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (2, Informative)

mdm-adph (1030332) | about 6 years ago | (#24291951)

There kinda is -- you hook into the "onunload" event on a web page, prompting the user with a dialog. It's how web apps like Meebo.com handle this problem.

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (4, Interesting)

ShieldW0lf (601553) | about 6 years ago | (#24292089)

Would seem to me that both camps can be made happy by allowing the developers to indicate that "THIS" page should not be added to the browser history.

So, if the user goes to the home page, then goes to a "view product" page, then goes through a purchasing process, you could suppress the pages involved in the purchasing process from being added to the history. If the user hits the back button half way through making a purchase, it would take them back to the "view product" page. If they then hit "forward", it would do nothing, because the "view product" page is the most recent entry.

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (1)

jlarocco (851450) | about 6 years ago | (#24292239)

Do a lot of web development? This is one feature I would love -- users can completely destroy how a web app works just by clicking on the back button and asking "where'd all my data go?"

You mean one of the fundamental features of every web browser ever created breaks your web app? Maybe that's a hint...

If anything like that ever gets added to Konqueror or Firefox I'll release a patch disabling the "feature" just out of basic principle.

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24292373)

And nothing "traps" you in a page; just close the tab.

Right, that does it, I'm going to rape your eyesockets. Seriously, how fucking stupid do you have to be? You might as well go "Oh, no, it doesn't stop you from closing the window, just kill -9 the process or shut it down from the task manager."

Excuse me, mister drooling webmonkey, but I accidentally clicked on a link to your crappy crap McCrappins web site, and I would very much like to exit your fucking link farm and return to my google search.

Luckily I know Opera won't stand for this shit, but when IE developers occasionally pull their heads out of their asses long enough to actually implement some functionality, this is exactly the kind of thing of user hostile POS feature they seem to home in on.

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (1)

GuldKalle (1065310) | about 6 years ago | (#24292519)

Well, the back-button is not gonna go away, so you might just have to make your web-app work with it. Look at how other web-apps are doing it. set location.hash to something different every time you go to a new logical page, and set an onunload-event to save the data when users are leaving the page. That way you can use the back-button as a natural part of your app, instead of providing ugly, self-made buttons to confuse your users.

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (3, Funny)

Dr_Banzai (111657) | about 6 years ago | (#24291813)

That's what the Super Back Button is for.

This could be the start of the back button arms race...

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24291953)

If Iran develops Nuclear Back Button technology, the terrorists win.

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | about 6 years ago | (#24292185)

We must not allow a Back Button gap!

On a more serious note, wouldn't it be nice to be able to attach a confirm box to the back button, which allows the user to still go back if they desire, yet lets them know that they may lose the data within the ajax app?

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (5, Insightful)

urcreepyneighbor (1171755) | about 6 years ago | (#24291869)

<sarcasm>Well, you see... our new, half-assed, pieced-together technology will only properly work if we force users to use it the way we want. Remember: it's OUR content, so we get to determine how the USERS use it!</sarcasm>

<serious>UseIt.com [useit.com] .</serious>

Re:"Override Back Button Event"??? (2, Interesting)

CopaceticOpus (965603) | about 6 years ago | (#24292135)

Overriding the back button would lead to evil behavior on some websites. I think what would be better is to have a way to register "the page has advanced" events with the browser when dynamic content is loaded. In other words, the back/forward buttons could be tied to application states that aren't necessarily a result of a complete page load. This would be like the YUI Browser History Manager [yahoo.com] , but with a simpler set up and no libraries to include.

The only problem is that sites could load up the application history with 500 fake events, and thus render the back button useless. Still, they can probably already do this using the same methods as the Browser History Manager uses, so the point may already be moot.

222 random people on the Internet (3, Insightful)

TorKlingberg (599697) | about 6 years ago | (#24291705)

It seems the vote was open to anyone on the internet, and only 222 people answered. There will probably be more people writing comments in this thread.

You know, in case it comes up, am I the only one.. (3, Insightful)

mdm-adph (1030332) | about 6 years ago | (#24291713)

...who doesn't want cross-domain access? I'm perfectly fine with making server side code to parse whatever I need and then feed it to the browser via the local domain.

Am I missing something? Something about making a browser more independent of the server or something?

It's called SVG (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24291763)

I've messed around with it a bit, some really neat stuff can be made with SVG. My two examples: http://layerv.com/jsdraw/index.xhtml [layerv.com] http://layerv.com/games/hack/index.xhtml [layerv.com]

It's called preinstalled IE (1)

tepples (727027) | about 6 years ago | (#24291949)

I've messed around with it a bit, some really neat stuff can be made with SVG.

Right. But other than Apple, which major home and business PC maker installs a web browser that implements SVG on new PCs that it builds? As far as I can tell, most PC makers install IE 7 as the suggested (or only!) web browser without an SVG plug-in.

Re:It's called preinstalled IE (1)

IBBoard (1128019) | about 6 years ago | (#24292693)

Dell? At least they probably do on their Ubuntu pre-installs (Firefox).

Heh (1)

Shade of Pyrrhus (992978) | about 6 years ago | (#24291823)

Heh...you said "IE" and "standards" in the same sentence...

Sliding Panes (2, Interesting)

Doc Ruby (173196) | about 6 years ago | (#24291829)

I'd love Firefox to let me set not just exclusive tabs each with their own page, but also to let me slide around a dividing border between two panels, each with its own page in it. Side by side, or top/bottom, or a grid of X x Y. Let me look at two (or more) pages at once, scrolling each independently inside its pane. Comparing. copy/pasting. Like Excel and OO.o spreadsheets can allocate ranges of cells to separate window "portals" onto the sheet below.

Re:Sliding Panes (1)

smussman (1160103) | about 6 years ago | (#24291997)

And along with that, I'd like it to scroll when I put the mouse over it and scroll my mouse button. It drives me nuts when I try to scroll a background window in Windows, and the foreground window scrolls.

Re:Sliding Panes (1)

Otter Popinski (1166533) | about 6 years ago | (#24292207)

Almost every platform that supports Firefox will allow you to open more than one instance of it and tile the windows. Should this really be handled by the application?

Re:Sliding Panes (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24292299)

Opera.

Re:Sliding Panes (1)

ZERO1ZERO (948669) | about 6 years ago | (#24292357)

OK, not exactly like the 'ssplit' option in excel, but have you tried Opera? It has a proper MDI interface and can do multiple webpages within the main app window.

SVG animation (5, Insightful)

gr8_phk (621180) | about 6 years ago | (#24291863)

I'm glad Firefox has SVG and is improving it. I really want to see SVG animation. It sucks to use java script just to cause a diagram to have a few moving parts when animate transform would do the trick.

Re:SVG animation (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#24292029)

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=216462 shows there is a patch waiting to be reviewed and checked in, but today was the code freeze for Firefox 3.1 alpha 1 so looks like it missed the boat there. Perhaps in a later alpha/beta? Otherwise we'll have to wait till at least 2010 for Firefox 4.

Re:SVG animation (3, Interesting)

gr8_phk (621180) | about 6 years ago | (#24292277)

That patch has been available for a while (and has improved) and was there prior to Firefox 3.0. It was "too late" for 3.0 so was to be postponed until 3.1. And now history repeats...

Re:SVG animation (1)

Unending (1164935) | about 6 years ago | (#24292365)

Oh that's annoying, I love SVG and was hoping Firefox would put some effort into improving their support.

There is a comment by an AC in this thread that links to a paint program made in SVG, also some sort of hex tile engine made in SVG.

Also there is this http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/27/150233 [slashdot.org]

Rich Text Editing? (2, Interesting)

apathy maybe (922212) | about 6 years ago | (#24291937)

Don't we already have that? Yes, yes we do, it's called TinyMCE [moxiecode.com] and it is licensed under the LGPL and can be included on your form with just a couple of lines in your HTML code.
Oh wait, you want native rich text editing? Yeah, like you are really going to get a consistent experience across different browsers...

You know what I want from my web browser? I want it not to freeze when loading large (and/or lots of) images, and I want secure JavaScript, including killing off all JavaScript easily (none of this take over the browser with 50.000 alerts crap). Yeah, I know Opera has that last one, but I want a [i]free[/i] browser as well.

Anything else? Security sounds nice. I personally don't have much of a use for vector graphics as a developer, but I can see how they would be useful for everyone else.

Ummm... Maybe I'm just not very imaginative, but I tend to find that stability and security top my list of what I want nearly every time.

(Though I have to admit, the new address bar in Firefox 3 is nicer then the Firefox 2 bar.)

Re:Rich Text Editing? (1)

apathy maybe (922212) | about 6 years ago | (#24292001)

Oh, did I mention I run NoScript? And I apologise for the BB code, I haven't done any HTML stuff today, but I have posted on RevLeft.

Yeah, right. (1)

gamanimatron (1327245) | about 6 years ago | (#24292111)

TinyMCE - half a billion fragment loads later, it might work. Or maybe it won't; my one and only experience with it was trying to hunt down a bug with image link embedding in some wiki I was evaluating. I'd really rather have something standards-based in native code. Something that still works when I decide to kill off all the JavaScript on the page.

Speaking of which, the NoScript extension for Firefox is absolutely fantastic at limiting the amount of crap scripting running in your browser.

Personal Info Insertion (3, Interesting)

Doc Ruby (173196) | about 6 years ago | (#24292003)

I'd like HTML forms to include a tag that uniquely identifies the site publishing the form, and the form itself. Probably a hash of the form's field names, signed by the site with its SSL certificate. Then I could click an option on the form to repopulate it with the last data I already inserted into that same form the last time I filled it (or any previous time, in a history). Storing that data on my local terminal, rather than leave it stored at the remote site.

And I'd like for the full range of common personal info fields to have standard names, so I could click to fill out the neverending series of personal info forms the Web challenges me with all day, every day. Click to refill the form with the same info as last time I visited it. Or one dataset from a list of named profiles stored on my local machine. So I don't have to remember what personal info I disclosed to this or that site, or scrounge for it from the other places I keep that info stored personally.

If the system let my browser point at a "personal info server", I could click to populate these personal info forms using anyone's terminal, not just my own, though I'd have to trust the terminal not to exploit the personal data exposed while using its browser as a transfer point. Maybe these personal info forms could also take a URL that points directly at my personal info server, and let the challenging server direct its request to my personal info server, which lets the challenging server login (as prearranged) and get the data specified as available to it.

That infrastructure would take some work. But it would save me a lot of trouble every day. And therefore save a lot of trouble for millions of others in the same boat. While lowering the transaction barriers, without sacrificing security. And indeed increasing security, by minimizing the personal data stored outside my control, at numerous (and forgettable) unaccountable remote servers.

I'd just like /. to work (2, Funny)

oodaloop (1229816) | about 6 years ago | (#24292313)

You'd think on a geek website the CSS would work, links wouldn't take you to random parts of the page, text wouldn't constantly overlap, etc. If maybe we could get that simple stuff to work first before we take on all this over stuff.

It's a good thing IE doesn't do graphics... (0, Flamebait)

lordofwhee (1187719) | about 6 years ago | (#24292391)

Remember what happens when IE DOES do graphics?

*points to the VML exploit*

I say let M$ keep their incompetent hands off anything they can't properly secure (which (flamebait :D) seems to be everything).

back buttons (1)

chrisboredwithlogins (1324041) | about 6 years ago | (#24292405)

The reason people stupidly attempt to knobble the back button is they seem to think its quite okay to do things like ?id=23 in a url or have a hidden field in a form for an id

This makes for a *very* insecure site, the easy way round is to encrypt the data items together and use a one time page impression hash.

When the back button or history is used, silently fail the one time hash and act as if the appropriate action was selected.

A little care needs to be take with multi part forms to make sure you start at the beginning of whatever process.

Doing this with php is basically trivial, but it does take a little extra thought....

The *slight* extra time needed for a query and some encryption is more than made up for by the increased robustness.

SVG animation in Inkscape. (3, Interesting)

doti (966971) | about 6 years ago | (#24292463)

Funny, just now I was checking the Roadmap for Inkscape [inkscape.org] . SVG animation is planned for the next-next release (0.48, it's 0.46 now, 0.47 will be basically some internal re-factoring).

Unfortunately, multi-page support, which was the feature I was looking for, is planned for 0.49 (or 0.50?).

OpenAjax is still not widely known (1)

OpenDomain (1330725) | about 6 years ago | (#24292539)

I have been trying to help create a universal, Open Ajax library for years, and so I have thought 'OpenAjax' would be the solution. the problem seems to be that is is driven by the corporate hosts and no the individual developers. Also - if you look on any job board, you will not find ANY job specifying 'OpenAjax' as a requirement. I have written about these issues at Open Ajax blog [openajax.com]

The ONLY thing that is needed is... (5, Interesting)

JustShootThemAll (1284898) | about 6 years ago | (#24292553)

The ONLY thing that has to be added, and needs to be added about ten years ago, is a date input field in forms.

One that is locale-aware (DD-MM-YYYY, MM-DD-YYYY, or whatever you're locale used). Currently you have to jump through several hoops and it is near impossible to get a foolproof date input.

Finally! (1)

TornCityVenz (1123185) | about 6 years ago | (#24292579)

Finally Maybe someone can make that Tempest transition screen between pages I've been waiting for!

Flash is crossbrowser.. use it. (1)

tiago.cardoso (976597) | about 6 years ago | (#24292611)

There are a couple of developments in flash to port SVG to it. ImputDraw (http://www.mainada.net/inputdraw) lets you have a draw flash component online. But the new version will allow a big set of SVG in it. (here is a early demo: http://blog.tiagocardoso.eu/mainada/comics-sketch/2008/07/04/svg-viewer-demo/ [tiagocardoso.eu] ) Zoom in to see the beauty of SVG!!! :D

Re:Flash is crossbrowser.. use it. (2, Interesting)

Unending (1164935) | about 6 years ago | (#24292885)

Flash should never be a solution to anything IMO.
Really I don't think anything on the web should require a plugin to view.
Obviously this will never be true, but it is my ideal view of the web.

'Bout time (4, Interesting)

rs79 (71822) | about 6 years ago | (#24292619)

Oh sure, NOW people understand we need vector graphics.

I saw NeWS demo'd by sun in 84. I used native postscript extensively in 88+.

Then I watched html make a mess out of nearly everything to do with the network (html email? huh?).

Bout friggin time poeple woke up.

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