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Inside Apple's iPhone SDK Gag Order

samzenpus posted more than 6 years ago | from the the-first-rule-of-iPhone dept.

Handhelds 495

snydeq writes "InfoWorld's Tom Yager takes a closer look at Apple's iPhone SDK confidentiality agreement, which restricts developers from discussing the SDK or exchanging ideas with others, thereby leaving no room for forums, newsgroups, open source projects, tutorials, magazine articles, users' groups, or books. But because anyone is free to obtain the iPhone SDK by signing up for it, Apple is essentially branding publicly available information as confidential. This 'puzzling contradiction' is the 'antithesis of the developer-friendly Apple Developer Connection' on which the iPhone SDK program is based, Yager contends. 'You'll see arguments from armchair legal analysts that the iPhone developer Agreements won't stand up in court — but those analysts certainly won't stand up in court on your behalf.' Anyone planning to launch an iPhone forum or open source project should have 'a lawyer draft your request for exemption, and make sure that the Apple staffer granting it personally commits to status as authorized to approve exceptions to the iPhone Registered Developer and iPhone SDK Agreements,' Yager warns."

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Linux is illegal! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24314831)

Linux is illegal! You are breaking the law, and hurting yourself and your family with your illegal software. Your IP has been noted and is being forwarded to the SPA with a recommendation that they investigate your criminal activity. Please destroy all your unpatriotic linux software before the government finally cracks down on you people and you all end up as lampshades or soap.

Try not to choke. (-1, Offtopic)

Leftist Troll (825839) | more than 6 years ago | (#24314921)

Mac users know all about gag orders.

Re:Try not to choke. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24315043)

A secret survey conducted by the Rand Corporation in the 1970s confirmed that any person attracted to white, plastic machines completely without sharp edges is an utter homosexual, subconsciously wishing to insert them into his rectum. (This thesis was famously defended by Sigmund Freud at least 100 years ago.) This led some to theorize that the miraculous upsurge in sales at the dawn of the new millennium, after a long period during which no one would buy an Apple computer, was the result of a coup backed by the CIA. It could not be a coincidence, it was argued, that every new design released by Apple had a counterpart amongst the suggestions presented in the Rand Corporation survey, which had recently been made public, to which it was almost identical. The CIA's interest in the coup supposedly was to divert the interest of the inhabitants of California towards "expressing themselves" with shitty programs such as iPhoto, Pages and iMovie (all designed especially to appeal to homosexuals) so that the Republicans could regain power from the Democrats in the 2000 presidential elections. The CIA confessed its partaking in the coup after the Republican Thousand Year Empire was secured in 2004, and admitted to doing this 'for the lulz.' Deterring many budding fags from crossing the threshold is that Apple doesn't allow it's software to be used for lulz. In summary, Apple products represent precisely what you don't want to be either in mind, body, or spirit. Avoid all traces of this evil in your otherwise rewarding journey through life and never forget to enjoy the occasional chuckle at the expense of the typical Apple dweeb in your neighborhood.

Re:Try not to choke. (5, Funny)

zapakh (1256518) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315073)

A secret survey conducted by the Rand Corporation in the 1970s confirmed that any person attracted to white, plastic machines completely without sharp edges is an utter homosexual, subconsciously wishing to insert them into his rectum.

Wow. I gotta watch Wall-E again...

Re:Try not to choke. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24315279)

Would the fine folks who are currently DDOSing 4chan please stop so this idiot can go back where he belongs?

Two can play at this game. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24315369)

A secret survey conducted by the Usenet Corporation in the 1970s confirmed that any person attracted to 4chan is an utter homosexual, subconsciously wishing to insert them into his rectum. (This thesis was famously defended by Sigmund Freud at least 100 years ago.) This led some to theorize that the miraculous upsurge in cat pictures at the dawn of the new millennium, after a long period during which the amount of idiots and trolls on the Internet was low, was the result of a coup backed by the CIA. It could not be a coincidence, it was argued, that every new mouthbreather released by 4chan had a counterpart amongst the suggestions presented in the Usenet Corporation survey, which had recently been made public, to which it was almost identical. The CIA's interest in the coup supposedly was to divert the interest of the inhabitants of the internet towards "expressing themselves" with shitty memes such as longcat, imma charging my laser and motivators (all designed especially to appeal to homosexuals) so that the Republicans could regain power from the Democrats in the 2000 presidential elections. The CIA confessed its partaking in the coup after the Republican Thousand Year Empire was secured in 2004, and admitted to doing this 'for the lulz.' Deterring many budding fags from crossing the threshold is that 4chan doesn't allow it's forum to be used for proper punctuation. In summary, 4chan, and the AC above, represent precisely what you don't want to be either in mind, body, or spirit. Avoid all traces of this evil in your otherwise rewarding journey through life and never forget to enjoy the occasional chuckle at the expense of the sewerage of the Internet.

Re:Linux is illegal! (0, Redundant)

The Master Control P (655590) | more than 6 years ago | (#24314925)

Can we please have a "-1, Stupid" mod?

Re:Linux is illegal! (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24314969)

Only if it applies to those MacFags.

no sale, here, then (5, Interesting)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 6 years ago | (#24314837)

I had no idea about this. I don't follow apple things (...) but given how sue-happy they are, they can certainly live without MY buying any of their gear.

simply because of this, alone; I vow not to buy an iphone. I was not really in the market but now I know for sure that apple is on my blacklist (at least the evil phones).

apple: are you trying to dislodge MS as the most hated computer company around? keep it up, mate....

Re:no sale, here, then (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24314899)

Yes, Do Without.

I really don't understand why everyone is willing to buy Apple products at inflated prices with draconian contracts of adhesion.

A phone is a phone is a phone. Don't fall for it.
Buy generic phones, or better yet, just take the free one provided with your wireless providers contract of adhesion.

If more people thought this way, there would be less of this insanity in the marketplace, and manufactures would have to compete by price alone.

Re:no sale, here, then (2, Informative)

Goldberg's Pants (139800) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315225)

I own an iPod Touch and it is HANDS DOWN the greatest tech device I've ever bought. There is nothing else like it on the market right now.

Of course it's worth is increased exponentially when hacked and jailbroken. Apple charged iPod owners $10 for the 2.0 software update. There is some claim that business law requires them to do this, which is nonsense as Sony routinely give the PSP new features for free. MS released their 2.0 Zune update for free for older Zune's etc... So I'm not sure why Apple is defended in this practice when Sony and MS are possibly two of the most evil companies out there.

As it was, I scored the 2.0 update for free thanks to an Apple fuckup. HAHA!:)

Re:no sale, here, then (5, Insightful)

BhaKi (1316335) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315389)

Every anti-competitive trick used by M$ is also used by Apple. However, M$ has a monopoly and Apple doesn't. For some people, this is reason enough to abstain from hating Apple. Unfortunately, such people don't realize that they are just becoming silent promoters of such tricks.

Not quite accurate (3, Interesting)

StarKruzr (74642) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315459)

There is nothing else like it on the market right now.

http://www.consumerdepot.com/products.asp?id=N810RB&referer=google [consumerdepot.com]

It is not only "like" the iPod touch, it is far and away more capable.

Re:Not quite accurate (1)

beelsebob (529313) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315503)

It is? It's got a slower CPU and less memory, what makes it more capable?

Re:no sale, here, then (5, Insightful)

Grey Ninja (739021) | more than 6 years ago | (#24314951)

apple: are you trying to dislodge MS as the most hated computer company around? keep it up, mate....

They're already there, as far as I'm concerned. Apple's business practices just reeks of some mad power trip in general. They absolutely despise people using their products (be it hardware or software) in ways that they had not intended. Microsoft is FAR their superior in that regard. The main evil with Microsoft is seen by the IT professional, not the consumer. With Apple, it's generally the other way around.

The only explanation I can see for Apple's recent surge in popularity is their marketing, which is absolutely top notch.

Typical Steve Jobs... (4, Funny)

PC and Sony Fanboy (1248258) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315067)

With a mad dictator like steve jobs at the helm, what more would you expect?

He'll demand that people conform to his world view, and demand that the people working for him force their customers to conform to his world view.

Now, he's demanding that his workers force his customers to force THEIR customers to conform...

*phew*... I'm so glad I don't work for / with / against / near Apple. I get winded just thinking about them!

Re:Typical Steve Jobs... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24315167)

That's okay - Jobs will die from cancer soon then Bill can buy Apple through a shell company.

 

Re:no sale, here, then (4, Funny)

theantipop (803016) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315163)

The only explanation I can see for Apple's recent surge in popularity is their marketing, which is absolutely top notch.

Really? That's the only explanation?

Re:no sale, here, then (1)

GaryPatterson (852699) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315189)

single problem.

Oh, wait.

But at least Vista is the user's best friend.

Oh.

(to avoid potential derailment, I quite like Vista and it's my Windows OS of choice)

The only explanation I can see for Apple's recent surge in popularity is their marketing, which is absolutely top notch.

Yup, Apple make nothing whatsoever that couldn't be made elsewhere. Their success is purely down to marketing and the way that every single customer is blinded to their faults. Every. Single. Customer.

Apple's competitors somehow managed to *not* deliver products that could compete. But that'd be marketing again, wouldn't it? Maybe the marketing guys came up with the whole OS X thing, 'cause we all love the letter "X" don't we?

Crazy guys.

Hate Apple all you like, and good luck to you. Just drop the whole "marketing" meme. It wasn't true last year, it's not true now and it doesn't look likely next year. It's a weak excuse for failure to compete, and that's all it is. If you can't identify the reasons behind their success, it's your loss.

Re:no sale, here, then (1)

story645 (1278106) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315265)

The only explanation I can see for Apple's recent surge in popularity is their marketing, which is absolutely top notch.

Don't discount the shiny factor. They make very pretty products: other products try to look like macs, not the other way around. This is key to their demographic, which judging by their commercials and the like is the style conscious pretty toy crowd. Most everyone else is gonna buy something that's cheaper but works just as well. (Ipods are one of the few tech toys that have as many (if not more) female users as male ones.)Cool toy factor is important: I know a kid who wasn't even allowed to watch videos, but still wanted a nano just 'cause it was the hot new thing. (I ended up selling her on a mini, which was a pain to track down. Apples release cycle is also fabulous for sales, matching constant new toys with a demographic that doesn't really get the technical improvements and just wants the latest toy.)

Also, the average apple user probably doesn't know (much less care) about what an sdk is. These are people who download whatever games other people have developed and buy unlocked iphones. Proprietary lock in's aren't that bothersome if you don't have any reason to run OSX on anything but a mac (for example), and apple makes all their big profit getters (itunes) work on windows for market share. The biggest complaints I usually here from mac users is about trying to network with windows (or some program not working, but dual booting has gotten rid of that.)

Re:no sale, here, then (5, Insightful)

HumanEmulator (1062440) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315337)

The only explanation I can see for Apple's recent surge in popularity is their marketing, which is absolutely top notch.

So in the past 10 years, the switch to a unix based operating system with modern object oriented apis, the switch to intel hardware that made an easier transition for windows developers, the acquisition and development of technologies like multi-touch, the negotiating with record labels to break out of the subscription model, the adoption of open source for many parts of the operating system (from Darwin to WebKit) and so on had nothing to do with it?

Yeah, it's silly that they haven't lifted the NDA yet, but it's not like developers have gotten excited about their platform because of brightly colored commercials.

Re:no sale, here, then (3, Insightful)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315055)

What, you thought Apple was nice, warm and fuzzy? Where have you been? They are just as cut-throat as Microsoft. They just have cooler stuff at higher prices.

Re:no sale, here, then (5, Interesting)

loganrapp (975327) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315075)

Well, that's one more reason to wait and see how the HTC Dream and other Android-using devices work out.

Re:no sale, here, then (1)

JT The Geek (1121759) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315217)

Wow, I was actually going to give in and get rid of my old HTC for the 3G. Not a F'ing chance. Screw you apple!

Re:no sale, here, then (1)

Spy Handler (822350) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315495)

"apple: are you trying to dislodge MS as the most hated computer company around? keep it up, mate"

Steve Jobs' evilness > billgates' evilness

Re:no sale, here, then (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24315505)

"armchair legal analyst" is your source

this is the analysis of someone not qualified to do so

I was not really in the market

you couldn't handle it, if you were

apple fucking sucks (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24314843)

suck a cock saint jobs

Re:apple fucking sucks (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24314911)

Imagine a giant cock flying towards your mouth, and there's nothing you can do about it. And you're like "Oh man, I'm gonna have to suck this thing", and you brace yourself to suck this giant cock. But then, at the last moment, it changes trajectory and hits you in the eye. You think to yourself "Well, at least I got that out of the way", but then the giant cock rears back and stabs your eye again, and again, and again. Eventually, this giant cock is penetrating your gray matter, and you begin to lose control of your motor skills. That's when the giant cock slaps you across the cheek, causing you to fall out of your chair. Unable to move and at your most vulnerable, the giant cock finally lodges itself in your anus, where it rests uncomfortably for 4, maybe 5 hours. That's what using Mac OS X is like.

It's Apple (0, Redundant)

Qwavel (733416) | more than 6 years ago | (#24314855)

nuf said

What bugs me (3, Interesting)

CODiNE (27417) | more than 6 years ago | (#24314859)

Is the way the iPhone dev Center refuses to use a cookie and remember your login info. Every stinking time you want to download the new SDK or check for new sample code, you have to log in. Again. Then you close your browser and and hour later, oop, sign in again. I've downloaded the SDKs now a total of 9 times, so I've definitely typed in my login name and password at least 20 times now. Considering there's no software update for XCode I'd imagine most other devs have too.

Re:What bugs me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24315215)

Oh yes. Android phones, please come out soon :(

Typical Apple (4, Insightful)

BoldAC (735721) | more than 6 years ago | (#24314873)

I am a big Apple supporter and member of the apple rumors community... however...

Apple can get away with this because they can outspend almost any web/forum site. If they are in the right or wrong, who cares? They can keep throwing lawyers at you until you give.

They attack Apple rumors site on a routine basis for BS claims of copyright or trade secrets. If I take a picture of somebody else holding a pre-release iPhone, how is that copyright? They are in the public!

Look at the EULA and Apple attacking the company making mac clones. Most lawyers do not think that the EULA would stand; however, no company (other than microsoft or google) could tolerate the time/money that fighting would cost.

Re:Typical Apple (5, Insightful)

paroneayea (642895) | more than 6 years ago | (#24314979)

So... I guess this kind of mentality puzzles me. There are a lot of apple users out there, who, like you, acknowldge that they're being dicked around mostly even because you take interest.

To me it almost seems like an abusive relationship. You care about them, they beat you up, and you keep coming back. Why?

Note, I don't mean you, per se. But it seems pretty common in the Apple fanboy communities.

Re:Typical Apple (0, Troll)

Leftist Troll (825839) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315071)

this kind of mentality puzzles me. There are a lot of apple users out there, who, like you, acknowldge that they're being dicked around ....You care about them, they beat you up, and you keep coming back. Why?

Makes sense to me. They like dick.

Common Fanboy Behaviour, in general... (5, Insightful)

PC and Sony Fanboy (1248258) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315083)

Can you think of a single fanboy that doesn't defend his obsession to death? ... then again, I guess that *is* the definition of fanboy.

Re:Common Fanboy Behaviour, in general... (5, Funny)

Concerned Onlooker (473481) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315375)

Indeed. Remarkable insightful for someone who has "Fanboy" in his username. :-)

Re:Typical Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24315343)

There are no alternatives that are an improvement to Apple in all aspects. Your analogy can apply to Windows and Linux.

Windows - viruses and still kinda sucky for development. Windows mobile not so great.

Linux - So much just doesn't work right. Not even Ubuntu (wireless). OpenMoko is just a piece of crap.

Pick your poison.

Re:Typical Apple (1)

dreamchaser (49529) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315361)

It is *exactly* like an abusive relationship, and that's what troubles me the most about fanbois in general. I appreciate the quality of Apple's products, but I do not like the company one bit and because of that I am not buying another Mac until they change their arrogant attitude towards their userbase.

Re:Typical Apple (1)

wumpus188 (657540) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315531)

We need a Slashdot poll for that.

I am...
  • with abusive Hot and Sexy.
  • with abusive Fat and Ugly.
  • in a mom's basement, you incensitive clod!

Re:Typical Apple (1)

mmeister (862972) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315409)

The EULA issue is COMPLETELY different issue and one that Apple is in the right here. The Mac "clone" folks are buying upgrade copies of OS X and treating them as full licenses. They are modifying the code and passing it as an Apple-compatible product, directly benefiting from APPLE's trademarks.

That has absolutely NOTHING to do with their current stand on the iPhone SDK. Will the SDK be opened up soon enough, very likely. There is no conspiracy here.

Re:Typical Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24315435)

IANAL. There, I said it, so anything I say can very well be wrong. I think Tom Yager made a mountain out of a molehill. His concern stemmed from

"You agree not to disclose, publish, or disseminate any Confidential Information to anyone other than to other Registered iPhone Developers who are employees and contractors working for the same entity as you and then only to the extent that Apple does not otherwise prohibit such disclosure in this Agreement."

Now, anyone who wants to download iPhone SDK must sign up for an ADC membership. Even if you download the SDK for free, you are an iPhone Registered Developer. Now the next part is "who are employees and contractors working for the same entity". If you develop for the same open sourced software as Joe Coder, are you working for the same entity? I think so. You may get $0 as the compensation for your work, but technically your work for the same entity (not necessarily a company or incorporated organization, open source groups qualifies as an entity).

So, you may not be able to disclose secrets in the public forums, but you could always set up a private forum or a mailing list for your fellow developers.

So basically, no learning help? (4, Insightful)

TellarHK (159748) | more than 6 years ago | (#24314883)

So with this NDA issue, I can't buy a book, read a forum, get any assistance at all with writing my iPhone application... So what the hell good is an SDK you can't talk about? Is this cellular fight club or something?

Apple, fix this shit. Really. Fix it now. There's no excuse for not letting the NDA go, no way that it protects you. The phone's been jailbroken, it _will_ be unlocked, so why stifle development?

Re:So basically, no learning help? (5, Insightful)

AllIGotWasThisNick (1309495) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315019)

Is this cellular fight club or something?

Not quite. I expect the iPhone SDK NDA bullshit will end with the end of the Android SDK NDA bullshit. Neither wants to show their cards first.

No, it'll end when... (4, Insightful)

PC and Sony Fanboy (1248258) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315097)

It won't end until the piratebay.org steps in and provides a safe, secure, overseas forum to discuss apple products.

OH wait, this isn't even piracy. It isn't even 'stealing' ... its just talking to another human being who has the same program you have... like, Idea sharing.

I guess they really mean it when they say "Think Different". As in, don't you DARE think what he's thinking. Don't even think about thinking about it...

Mod parent up! (1)

GaryPatterson (852699) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315111)

That comment actually makes sense and isn't the over-emotive whining elsewhere.

Re:So basically, no learning help? (1)

mmeister (862972) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315429)

More likely, Apple is still getting all their iPhone developer program ducks in a row. I think Apple probably rushed the SDK a bit and wants to address some core issues before having to counter all the nay-sayers that will start rambling as soon as the lift the NDA.

I doubt Apple expect quite this much interest in the SDK. They need to get the developer licensing process setup, the review process for adding new products to the store and the review process for handling updates.

IMHO, I think once those ducks are in a row, Apple will lift the NDA.

Re:So basically, no learning help? (1)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315069)

So with this NDA issue, I can't buy a book, read a forum, get any assistance at all with writing my iPhone application... So what the hell good is an SDK you can't talk about? Is this cellular fight club or something?

"If you download the SDK, you have to code." :)

Re:So basically, no learning help? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24315287)

What's stopping you from downloading the SDK? Is it the fact that you can only get it through Apple?

It's pretty obvious why Apple is doing what they're doing, and there's no Evil Thought Control plot in play. They're making sure that the people that obtain information from or use the SDK are agreeing to their terms. It's pretty obvious, even if IANAL.

The NDA is to make sure that someone else doesn't get information out of the SDK second hand. "This code? Oh, I didn't get it from Apple! Joe Coder gave me this! He might have the SDK, but I'm sure it's really GPL-ed code, so that's how I'm treating it."

Which brings me to another thing, and what brought me to respond: name a license that doesn't impose restrictions of any sort. Even the BSD license has some caveats over and above Public Domain.

Re:So basically, no learning help? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24315467)

Mr. Coward what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no mod points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Re:So basically, no learning help? (2, Funny)

wellingj (1030460) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315307)

The first rule of Apple SDK is that you don't talk about Apple SDK.
The second rule of Apple SDK is that you don't talk about Apple SDK.

Or one could look at it from the stand point that a population that isn't
allowed to talk to one another is easily controlled, ala 1984...
which would make this all the more ironic. [youtube.com]

Re:So basically, no learning help? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24315449)

"So what the hell good is an SDK you can't talk about? Is this cellular fight club or something?"

It's Scientology all over again.

I had assumed this would be lifted Real Soon Now. (4, Interesting)

w3woody (44457) | more than 6 years ago | (#24314889)

After all, the iPhone SDK cannot remain a "beta" forever, and once it's no longer a beta, I presume the SDK will show up side-by-side with the MacOS X Cocoa SDK from which it was derived.

Most of Apple's beta stuff has the same confidentiality agreement, so I presumed this was just a bug.

A EULA bug like... (0, Troll)

PC and Sony Fanboy (1248258) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315103)

A bug ... kinda like that one that said that Safari had to be installed ONLY on apple branded computers?

You know, the safari that apple pushed out through the itunes update to a whole bunch of PCs on purpose?

Re:I had assumed this would be lifted Real Soon No (1)

wumpus188 (657540) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315547)

It's no longer a beta since iPhone 3G release. But NDA is still in effect.

How things work (3, Insightful)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 6 years ago | (#24314895)

The market will bear it, and that's that.

This will have to change... (5, Informative)

Karpe (1147) | more than 6 years ago | (#24314905)

Stanford has announced [tuaw.com] that it will be offering an iPhone development course. I would also expect that many books on iPhone development are being edited to be published soon. For these to occur, iPhone development information cannot be under NDA. So it's just a matter of time. Apple is not stupid.

If this is the computing model of the future (4, Insightful)

paroneayea (642895) | more than 6 years ago | (#24314915)

...then the future for computer users and developers is heading toward some pretty shitty seas.

Re:If this is the computing model of the future (4, Insightful)

TheNucleon (865817) | more than 6 years ago | (#24314949)

It is, no doubt.

I mean, look at the programmable hardware platforms out there that "the powers that be" won't let you program. Game consoles, smartphones, even APIs for stinking video cards. This is all hardware that WE BUY, yet, we can't find out how to write our own stuff unless we are a big dev house and pay tons of $$. Ridiculous.

Developers, developers, developers, developers.

Old news, etc. (1)

PC and Sony Fanboy (1248258) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315115)

It is the old argument that us PSP owners with custom firmware keep using - "I bought it, so I'll do whatever I damn well want with it."

except with the SDK, you don't buy it.. they give it to you, so you don't have that leverage.

Re:Old news, etc. (1)

Hes Nikke (237581) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315475)

thats also the argument that us jailbreakers have. but man, Jailbreak 2.0 land is so.... empty.... :(

Re:If this is the computing model of the future (5, Informative)

trawg (308495) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315269)

I like Nokia's new advertising platform:

http://www.opentoanything.com/ [opentoanything.com]

At a glance it looks like they've identified Apple's closed stance is a big gripe for developers and hardcore tech-types, and they're going after that market.

Obviously they've also got Google on the other side, but I hope they do well out of this. If they stop spamming out a billion different mobile models a year and focus on getting some nice, neat hardware backed by some good open source, get enough developer support, and they could have something going on.

Re:If this is the computing model of the future (1)

n dot l (1099033) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315515)

In general I agree with you. But there are some notable exceptions...

Game consoles, smartphones, even APIs for stinking video cards.

Microsoft has already half-opened up the 360 with the XNA Game Studio. No, it's not open to the point where you can run Linux on it, but it's better than what was available before. And since every release adds a bit more functionality it may actually lead to a decently open XBOX at some point. It might be enough to force Sony to unlock the rest of the PS3 (right now it runs Linux, but the GPU can't be put into 3D graphics mode when anything but a signed PS3 game is loaded). Who knows, hell might even freeze over and Nintendo might allow homebrew games on the Wii.

Smartphones I don't know much about so I won't comment.

But as for video cards, I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about. The DirectX and OpenGL SDKs are publicly available for free. Do you want to use the GPU without jumping through the Direct3D/OpenGL hoops? NVIDIA already has a freely available API out for that (CUDA) and last I heard AMD was going that direction too. Want access to the hardware specs so you can hack it as you please? AMD has already released those (NV probably won't for a long time, but they may go that route some time in the future).

Apple doesn't support developers. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24314931)

Apple doesn't support developers.

They focus solely on end user consumers.

Wait... apple doesn't support consumers. (2, Insightful)

PC and Sony Fanboy (1248258) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315123)

apple doesn't support end user consumers either. It only supports people who conform to their idea of an end user consumer...

Re:Wait... apple doesn't support consumers. (1)

Hes Nikke (237581) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315485)

Also Known as Steve Jobs

Sorry I can't talk about this. (5, Funny)

blanchae (965013) | more than 6 years ago | (#24314937)

This forum is in contempt of the NDA.

Re:Sorry I can't talk about this. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24315065)

Since this is slashdot however, I'm sure nobody has actually bothered reading or even agreed to the EULA, therefore we can all talk about the SDK as much as we want with little or no basis for facts...

Re:Sorry I can't talk about this. (1)

RuBLed (995686) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315135)

Yup, and I could assure you that their SDK causes global warming, or so I heard...

Re:Sorry I can't talk about this. (1)

tpz (1137081) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315275)

The SDK kills pirates?!?! ;)

Motive? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24314997)

I'm puzzled as to the "why" of this. The excerpts support the article's claim well, and I presume the excerpts are genuine, but the part I'm missing is why Apple would even _want_ something like this. It seems like the SDK is the next big piece in ensuring iPhone world domination, so it seems like they'd want to foster an active, healthy development community, and not strangle it. Do they have a paid community site which offers tutorials and forums to members or something?

Re:Motive? (2)

legallyillegal (889865) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315137)

control: steve jobs wants total control over everything. he wants you to have only one choice - his choice, hence why it took forever to get an i/macbook in something other than white. want variety? $200 or no soup for you!

developer-friendly Apple Developer Connection? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24315001)

This 'puzzling contradiction' is the 'antithesis of the developer-friendly Apple Developer Connection'

What parallel universe is that in? When I connect to my account there, I cannot share bug reports with anybody else and search the bug database for similar bugs already filed, how's that dev friendly???

Message Received. (5, Interesting)

mkcmkc (197982) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315009)

Apple doesn't want me to program their hardware. I hear and will obey...

Re:Message Received. (1)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315207)

Wrong meme dude, "Imperious Leader" should be in there somewhere.

Apple hosts public iPhone discussions (4, Informative)

reversible physicist (799350) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315013)

If you do a Google search for "apple developer forums" the top hit is the developer discussion at "discussions.apple.com". Most of the discussion there at the moment is about iPhone development. This discussion is in no way private.

Re:Apple hosts public iPhone discussions (5, Funny)

Coolhand2120 (1001761) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315273)

And therefore violates the terms of the iPhone SDK EULA! Which is what makes it so entirely silly.

The EULA for Safari for windows [theregister.co.uk] also forbids the installing of safari on windows. Again silly. Apple needs to become about 638% less litigious. Yes, I quantified it, wana fight about it?

Take it to court, then (2, Insightful)

caitsith01 (606117) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315025)

You'll see arguments from armchair legal analysts that the iPhone developer Agreements won't stand up in court â" but those analysts certainly won't stand up in court on your behalf.

Well, maybe that's because, like most other professions, lawyers need to be paid money in exchange for work done.

Giving legal advice and running proceedings costs money and exposes the lawyer to risk (i.e. suits from the person receiving the advice if they rely on it and it turns out to be wrong).

Actually, most law firms... (1)

PC and Sony Fanboy (1248258) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315129)

Actually ... Many law firms are required to provide a certain number of pro-bono (free) hours... so...

Re:Actually, most law firms... (1)

caitsith01 (606117) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315195)

True, I was simply making the point that the customary approach if you have legal rights and want to establish/assert them is to pay a lawyer to run a proceeding for you. Sitting around bleating that people don't want to represent you in court for free is just silly.

Re:Take it to court, then (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24315333)

This is no argument! Lawyers should work for free like programmers programming for freedom! - And /not/ for money!

Hmm (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24315041)

Oddly enough winpwn 2.0 was released within minutes of this posting oO

WTF? Link to XKCD? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24315079)

This is incredibly surreal.

I went to ADC on iTunes [apple.com] , click on a link and get referred back to a page (which had an appIdKey, so that's why I'm not listing it)... and WTF but the link to the Registered iPhone Developer Terms and Conditions is a link to XKCD.com

Not that I mind much (excluding being able to read the conditions), but WTF?

Bad marketing decisions (1)

LM741N (258038) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315095)

Back in the mid 1980s during that chip recession, companies turned to "Customer Service" to differentiate themselves from the competitors, as common integrated circuits were averaging a penny per pin, so there wasn't much profit unless you had a big presence and focused on ASICs and cranked them out fast enough that the competitors couldn't keep up. So there was some humility in the high tech business back then. And the recession affected not only chip makers but every company that used them. Too much inventory.

But now I think the companies that survived the dot com crash have become incredibly arrogant. They never seem to learn from history despite others losing everything as they went out of business. They don't care about customers since they think they are invincible after surviving. Well history doesn't play very well for that attitude. Once you are on top, the only place to go is down. Witness Microsoft.

Re:Bad marketing decisions (1)

mdmkolbe (944892) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315371)

The non-consumer chip market still focuses on "Customer Service", it's mostly the (consumer?) software market that is so arrogant.

Freescale (f.k.a. Motorola) or Atmel give away CPU samples and hardcopy user documentation for the asking. (My team did this to get the parts for a school project.) I suspect this is because they are selling to other companies so each "sale" amounts to so much money that it is worth the cost of giving the first few away. But even beyond that, good customer service has a tangible cost for the companies that are buying these chips (e.g. better documentation leads to shorter development times and cheaper development costs (engineering time is *expensive*)) so that may be effecting the quality of service as well.

The first rule of Apple SDK Developers club is.... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24315119)

...you don't talk about Apple SDK Developers club.

That's amazingly stupid! (5, Interesting)

zullnero (833754) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315127)

When I first got into Palm development 10 years ago, there was a vibrant and amazing community...I used to participate heavily in the mailing list and forums back then. If you wanted to do something that wasn't explained in the manual, you could post a question...and there was a good chance the person giving you a reply was one of their top OS design engineers. Microsoft started doing some of that later on when they had so many employees with free time on their hands...but you couldn't put a price on that kind of interaction. It seriously helped me pick up the platform so quickly, and that helped me build a pretty good career for myself. Even now I'm still a Palm OS hobbyist for mainly that reason.

I can't see that happening with iPhone. What a stupid, stupid way to go about things. Palm didn't even have a robust platform, and they kept a huge market dominance way longer than they should have by making it easy to develop for their platform by keeping things out in the open. You had to sign agreements, but it wasn't this fascist Apple crap for sure. I'll take on any Apple fanboy on that point.

Re:That's amazingly stupid! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24315257)

Settle down Beavis. Of course this is just a temporary situation. The SDK was in Beta, during which time confidentiality is required.

You really think there won't be iPhone books and courses and such?

People just love to get worked up about things they know nothing about.

Re:That's amazingly stupid! (2, Interesting)

mmeister (862972) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315453)

Relax. This is a temporary situation. I think they had to rush things a bit for the iPhone 3G date and are prepping for the final release of the SDK (probably linked to a 2.0.1 update).

Yes, it would have been nice for them to release it from the NDA when it shipped, less than 2 weeks ago. But they're probably addressing some internal process issues before opening the flood gates, lest they have you bitching about how the process to sign up is too slow, etc, etc.

Because we all know... (3, Funny)

lazycam (1007621) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315145)

nothing good has never come out of sharing development ideas: http://sourceforge.net/ [sourceforge.net]

Par for the course (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24315175)

This is par for the course for Apple. They make a habit of suing or gagging (by gag order) enthusiast sites... Apple fans almost joke that they know when a leak is dead-on when the lawsuits start. They mismanufactured (and maybe still do -- who knows?) the Intel Macs, specifying a full tube of thermal paste per CPU instead of a dab... and when someone published an excerpt of the service manual which ALSO said to use a full tube.. instead of Apple saying "oops", they Cease and Desisted them into pulling this info down. There's the wireless card driver hole from last year* -- Apple pushed the people who found this hole into using a 3rd-party card to demonstrate it -- and THEN had the nerve to play it up as "ohh.. that didn't even involve Apple wireless hardware", and making sure Apple fanbois filled in the blank (inccorectly) as "Apple wireless hardware drivers were not succeptible" instead of the truth that Apple just strongarmed them into not demonstrating it. That's just from the last year. In general, Apple suppresses info about hardware flaws both on their forums and to a lesser extent elsewhere. Between this and PR, people seem to think Apples are flawless, and they are far from it. I would NEVER buy a Macintosh because of a) general dick-like behavior of the company and b) I'd NEVER, EVER get a straight answer on if a model has any production problems, bugs, flaws or "issues".. as I can about Dells or just about any normal model.

*Which also was present in drivers for quite a few cards -- buffer overflows, allowing possible exploitation without even being associated to a wifi network by sending out corrupted wireless packets.

No browsers, no API, players or background apps (5, Insightful)

Coolhand2120 (1001761) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315201)

The SDK EULA also says a lot of other bullshit:

3.3.2 An Application may not itself install or launch other executable code by any means, including without limitation through the use of a plug-in architecture, calling other frameworks, other APIs or otherwise. No interpreted code may be downloaded and used in an Application except for code that is interpreted and run by Apple's Published APIs and built-in interpreter(s).

Kaspersky dosen't like that idea [palluxo.com]

Slashdotters [slashdot.org] apparently don't like that you can never write browsers, music/video players or background applications.

Voice over IP apps like Skype that attempt to use the cellular data connection will be blocked. Competing web browsers Firefox and Opera are forbidden.

I can't think of any other company that has ever done anything like this. I'm really just curious, has any company ever publicised a SDK that has been so very private and restrictive? No other browsers?!?

This story reminds me of the time I tried to hook my Apple cinema display up to my Cable box's DVI port, it's just not worth it, even if you get it to work, you have 5 more lbs of monitor [apple.com] you've got to hide somewhere, just because Apple wanted to squeeze a little dough out of people with more proprietary cable connectors.

Apple has always been about "Show me the money", every action they take reemphasized that they are only interested in more money, not innovation. Here though, they really go out of their way to stifle innovation with literals like "...calling other frameworks, other APIs or otherwise...". It really says it all, don't bother trying to write this for our hardware, you may compete with us in such a way that we can't fuck you properly.

Re:No browsers, no API, players or background apps (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24315377)

Cable boxes with DVI ports did not exist when Apple sold displays with the ADC port (combining video, power, and USB on one cable). It was very innovative for its time and a very good solution to driving a display from a computer. It is too bad the slip on latching connector it used is not used in some form today (HDMI could really use a simple latch).

You're complaining about ancient history, but I wonder about the relevance of wanting to display DVI TV on a 23-inch or less screen.

Then I read the rest of your post and realized you were trolling.

Re:No browsers, no API, players or background apps (1)

Spy Hunter (317220) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315439)

has any company ever publicised a SDK that has been so very private and restrictive?

Yes, it's quite common actually for various closed platforms. The most obvious are game consoles. Microsoft's XNA SDK has similar restrictions (when used for XBox 360 development). PS3 Linux locks out various features including access to the graphics card. I'm sure the official dev kits come with 10-mile-long EULAs; not to mention the iron-fisted control the manufacturers maintain over distribution.

For an even more direct analogy: I seem to recall, back when I was fiddling around with TI's handheld graphing calculators, that TI had a very similar situation on their hands. That is, they at first weren't going to allow native code development at all. Then after hobbyists broke in, ported GCC, and started development without TI's blessing, TI released a restricted SDK of their own and tried to lock out unauthorized apps.

Re:No browsers, no API, players or background apps (3, Informative)

scottgfx (68236) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315537)

Apple hasn't made an ADC monitor in several years. ADC was basically a DVI port with extra connectors for USB and power for the monitor. Apple's adapter had to provide power for a monitor that lacked a power supply. I managed to use Apple's computers without running into an ADC monitor. Getting a simple ADC to VGA or DVI block wasn't that expensive or hard either. And most video cards had ADC and a VGA port, so I used the adapters to run dual displays.

It's Apple's playground so you and I don't have to play in it, but I guess you can bitch about it, if that makes you feel better (superior).

Apple? Classified? really? (2, Insightful)

partowel (469956) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315243)

Apple.

Sign your life away, forever.

Apple is your god now.

Your life as you know it is over.

Apple is to be worshipped forever and ever.

Apple tv, Apple phone, Apple cpu, Apple

games [ lol ] , Apple colours, Apple [noun].

Apple is as open source as [ I can't think of

a good pun ].

Apple will go open source when pigs fly.

There. I got it.

So what's to stop an irc chat room? (2, Insightful)

mark-t (151149) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315301)

Who will they sue, exactly?

If you want users and... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24315331)

If enough users fail to read the EULA, can a latin precedent for "Let the Manufacturer Beware" be argued?

but surely... (1)

thekm (622569) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315335)

...this just means that you need to host the forum in Antigua, China or any other country currently not willing to tow the USA's line. Certainly wherever they're currently hosting DeCSS

To stop a beta-API polluting online knowledge (1)

bestinshow (985111) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315535)

Is the SDK out of beta yet?

They probably just don't the internet covered in websites with out of date SDK information, so that 5 years down the line Google searches will still bring up incorrect changed API tutorials online.

This is a big problem sometimes with other platforms.

It's rather obvious why the NDA exists (4, Insightful)

cybereal (621599) | more than 6 years ago | (#24315553)

If you read the documentation that is available after agreeing to the discolsure agreement, you'll see that it is all marked as unfinished. They have a reasonably strong argument in their favor of preventing the widespread publishing of stupid wrong information based on incomplete and potentially incorrect documentation while they finish it up.

The NDA will surely be lifted when the documentation is finished.

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