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What To Expect In KDE 4.1

timothy posted more than 6 years ago | from the plenty-of-goodness dept.

KDE 288

andrewmin writes "Recently, Gnome's been gaining a lot of ground on its KDE counterpart in the desktop environment wars. The KDE developers were hoping to change this with KDE 4, the new radical release of KDE, but it was not to be. KDE 4.0 was buggy and unstable, leaving everyone except the hard-core KDE lovers. Mainly, this was because it just didn't work most of the time. However, the developers were not without hope. They promised that KDE 4.1 would be more stable and fix all the holes and problems with KDE 4.0. That time is coming soon: in just four days, K Desktop Environment 4.1 will be released to the Linux masses." A release candidate for 4.1 came out just over a week ago, with binaries available "for some Linux distributions, and Mac OS X and Windows."

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first post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24341703)

3 in a row

Re:first post (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24341791)

3 in a row

Congrats. You have no life.

Re:first post (1)

odiroot (1331479) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342969)

Now he also has cancer.

Re:first post (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24341959)

I actually used KDE4.0 Beta as my main desktop, imagine that. It really wasn't as bad as people make out, I could see it wasn't ready, but the potential is there.

The ideas behind KDE4 are great, all it needs is polish (albeit a lot of polish). This is the point: if it were a turd, no amount of polish would make it good, but KDE4 does not fall into this category. It's just a knob that needs some Brasso. :D

Re:first post (2, Interesting)

Columcille (88542) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342475)

When I read about KDE 4 during development stages I was excited. Everything sounded great. As it rolled out excitement turned into astonishment. I can't believe they ever released it. Polish doesn't begin to describe what it needs. Had Microsoft released KDE there would have been a much, much bigger uproar than Vista ever received. I love KDE. They have released a lot of great work over the years. But KDE 4 has been a mistake through and through. It will take a few releases before they begin to show something solid.

Re:first post (3, Informative)

denmarkw00t (892627) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342917)

I'll agree, 4.0 was terrible. I've been using 4.1 since beta (just got RC1 today) and I'm much more pleased, however the inconsistencies across versions have made me feel like the team was, and may be, quite disconnected. The "dashboard" has taken several major facelifts in terms of both usability and appearance. Same goes for the taskbar (though its much snazzier than any previous release I've used). The jump from 4.0 to 4.1 has just been wonderful - I certainly can't say that 4.0 was "good" by any stretch of the imagination.

What To Expect In KDE 4.1 (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24341711)

4.1 times the Krap!

KDE 4.1 (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24341721)

Hopefuly its KDE 4.Done this time. Las time out KDE stunk worse than a meatloaf fart.

Re:KDE 4.1 (4, Informative)

HappySmileMan (1088123) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342199)

They promised that KDE 4.1 would be more stable and fix all the holes and problems with KDE 4.0.

The KDE developers never promised that all the holes and problems would be fixed in 4.1...

Reminds me of 4.0 when /. was saying it would be a finished DE, despite the KDE developers themselves saying this wasn't the case. People will be happy with KDE when /. stop exaggerating and lying about what it will be like

Re:KDE 4.1 (1)

neumayr (819083) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342577)

Oh please.
They made a release, people of course have certain expectation when software gets released (certain OSes and PC games notwithstanding) - and KDE4 didn't even come close to meeting those.
Yes, they said it's supposed to be kind of a tech demo, a preview to what they're up to in order to increase public interest, i.e. marketing.
But that's just not what releases are supposed to be.

Like BSD (-1, Troll)

ArsonSmith (13997) | more than 6 years ago | (#24341737)

KDE is dead.

Netcraft confirms it: KDE is dying (0, Offtopic)

wiIIyhiII (1327445) | more than 6 years ago | (#24341885)

I for one blame twitter. He is single-handedly responsible for the failures of Free Software, not to mention AIDS and the Holocaust.

Re:failure? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24342321)

twitter is responsible for the failure of AIDS and the holocaust?

Re:Netcraft confirms it: KDE is dying (1)

chunk08 (1229574) | more than 6 years ago | (#24343131)

Trolling a troll. LOL! So, which sockpuppet will show up to berate you? Bets anyone?

NVidia issues? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24341765)

I've been hearing issues about the performance of KDE 4.1 being rather terrible due to nVidia's hopeless support of XRender.

I've run it myself, and I did notice that as soon as you got a few applications running you could visibly see the widgets and windows redrawing themselves, making it a very painful experience. GNOME, on the other hand, remains snappy (though I love KDE 4.1, even just because the picture frame allows pin-ups on my desktop!).

Is this just subjective? Are there any fixes?

For reference, the card I'm using is a 7800GT, and the driver version 177.13 on x86.

Re:NVidia issues? (1, Flamebait)

Sir_Lewk (967686) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342305)

That sounds like more of an issue with your shitty driver than with KDE. Why should FOSS projects have to be restricted in what they can do because some people insist on hardware with poor support?

Re:NVidia issues? (1)

AngryLlama (611814) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342409)

NVidia = poor Linux support? Would you mind telling me what card _you_ use??

Re:NVidia issues? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24342705)

He's right you know.

8xxx and 9xxx cards with the closed nvidia driver will have slower 2d than with the vesa driver.

7xxx and before work fine though.

Re:NVidia issues? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24343335)

They don't. No-one is forcing them.
Of course if KDE takes the high ground then everyone with an nVidia card will not use KDE.

Slashdot Effect Channeled (5, Interesting)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342347)

QT 4 and thusly KDE 4 use XRender quite a bit, and Nvidia's driver has horrible XRender support. You could go to the OSS Nvidia driver, and lose 3D acceleration, or stick with KDE 3.

Ideally, I'd like to see the Slashdot effect channeled. This site has tons of users. We bring down sites accidentally with our massive numbers, but I've never seen the Slashdot Effect channeled for good.

Can you imagine CmdTaco posting a story tomorrow asking every to pepper Nvidia with petitions all on the same day, demanding an improved driver?

Re:Slashdot Effect Channeled (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24342759)

Or is it just XRender junk that doesn't work with nvidia driver?
Write a piece-of-crap software and DEMAND everybody to adapt to it. Way to go genius...

Re:Slashdot Effect Channeled (3, Informative)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342911)

The ATI drivers work fine with XRender. The Intel drivers work fine with XRender. There are people with low end systems, and basic on-board Intel video reporting great performance with KDE 4, where as there are people with high-end systems with top-notch Nvidia cards reporting unbearable performance.

I think you have a reasonable question, as to whether or not XRender is just bad, but every one seems to utilize it without a problem.

Choices (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24341779)

KDE 4.1 candidate version is quite good. And by the time it is adopted by "mainstream" linux users it should be excellent. The nice thing about the KDE project right now is that both the 3.5.x and 4.x lines are usable, so people have a choice for when they want to adopt 4.x.

Special Memo To John McCain: +1, Fight Alzheimer's (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24341785)

To: John McCain
From: President Dmitry Medvedev

As Medvedev advises, learn about
computers [smh.com.au]
or find a shuffleboard court in Arizona.

Sincerely,
K. Trout

TFS is a lie? (1)

Gewalt (1200451) | more than 6 years ago | (#24341789)

That's not how I remember it. KDE 4.0 was stable libraries for people to learn with, and very new/unstable implementation of the libraries. KDE 4.1 was supposed to be a stable implementation of the already stable libraries. AFAIR, noone, except hardcore testers was every supposed to actually USE kde 4.

Re:TFS is a lie? (4, Insightful)

Actually, I do RTFA (1058596) | more than 6 years ago | (#24341929)

KDE 4.0 was stable libraries for people to learn with, and very new/unstable implementation of the libraries. KDE 4.1 was supposed to be a stable implementation of the already stable libraries.

Ummm... okay, so you can rewrite the article: KDE developers don't understand release version concept, confuse users with improper 4.0 version number, and gain a reputation for a buggy major release.

Re:TFS is a lie? (0, Redundant)

jc42 (318812) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342163)

... KDE developers don't understand release version concept, confuse users with improper 4.0 version number, and gain a reputation for a buggy major release.

But doesn't everyone know that you don't buy a release that ends with ".0"?

More generally, one of the standard rules is that you avoid releases whose bottom digit is even. Those are the releases that contain new stuff. The next release, with the last digit odd, is the one that contains the bug fixes for all the new stuff.

That's why I didn't get KDE 4.0 on my new machine a few weeks ago. In fact, I decided to give Gnome another try, since it's been a few years since I last rejected it in favor of KDE. It seems to work OK now (though I do sorta miss Konqueror).

OTOH, I did install Ubunto 8.0. The Ubuntu crowd seems to have developed a reputation for violating the usual rule that .0 releases are buggy. Still, I held off for a while, to see the first reports. They were almost universally "thumbs up", so I decided to give it a try. It seems to work pretty well.

(Except that, as usual, I gave up after about two hours of trying to get their apache2 configured like I wanted it. I uninstalled it, downloaded the latest apache2,and in about 20 minutes had it compiled and configged. It ran correctly the first try. Why do the linux vendors insist on fscking this up so badly? ;-)

Re:TFS is a lie? (4, Informative)

leenks (906881) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342453)

Ubuntu 8.0? Ubuntu doesn't have version numbers, they just have dated releases - perhaps you meant 8.04 (April 2008) - followed by lots of patches as they appear to the various packages.

The Apache setup in Debian and Ubuntu is one of the best around, and I've not had any problems with it - what exactly could you not do with it?

Re:TFS is a lie? (2, Informative)

devman (1163205) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342519)

Ubuntu versioning is timetable based not feature based. Hardy Heron 8.04 is 2008 April. So the even/odd rule doesn't apply. Seems like more people are moving over to time based releases these days (including the linux kernel itself [slashdot.org] ), I rather like it myself.

Re:TFS is a lie? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24342533)

Uhh...

But doesn't everyone know that you don't buy a release that ends with ".0"?

I don't know, Firefox 3.0 seemed pretty good.

More generally, one of the standard rules is that you avoid releases whose bottom digit is even. Those are the releases that contain new stuff. The next release, with the last digit odd, is the one that contains the bug fixes for all the new stuff.

There is no "International Versioning Standard". On many projects, your "rule" is reversed: the odd-numbered releases contain new features and are intended for developers; whereas the even-numbered releases contain bugfixes for those features.

That's why I didn't get KDE 4.0 on my new machine a few weeks ago. In fact, I decided to give Gnome another try, since it's been a few years since I last rejected it in favor of KDE. It seems to work OK now (though I do sorta miss Konqueror).

KDE 4.0 was unstable because it was meant only for developers. That said, it should've been called "KDE 4.0 RC1" or perhaps even "KDE 3.9".

OTOH, I did install Ubunto 8.0. The Ubuntu crowd seems to have developed a reputation for violating the usual rule that .0 releases are buggy.

Ubuntu's releases are based on the year and month in which they are released: Ubuntu 8.04 was released on 2008 in April, or 8.04.

Re:TFS is a lie? (1)

snoyberg (787126) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342537)

Thanks! I've learned so much from your post! I'll avoid even-number-ended releases like Ubuntu 8.04. Can you point me where to download 8.0?

Re:TFS is a lie? (2, Funny)

neumayr (819083) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342715)

OTOH, people that configure their Apache usually don't use Ubuntu. You don't belong their target market.
Disclaimer: I never really used Ubuntu, except on a LiveCD, but that's the impression I got from interacting with Ubuntu users.

Re:TFS is a lie? (3, Funny)

segedunum (883035) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342783)

OTOH, people that configure their Apache usually don't use Ubuntu. You don't belong their target market.

You are fucking joking, of course right? I mean, your post will be modded funny, right?

Re:TFS is a lie? (2, Informative)

neumayr (819083) | more than 6 years ago | (#24343075)

At this time, the mods are as confused as you seem to be.
I'll just wait and see.

Actually, I probably should have said "configure their Apache manually, editing httpd.conf, knowing exactly what they're doing". But then, there wouldn't be as big a chance for a funny mod...

Re:TFS is a lie? (2, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342183)

Ummm... okay, so you can rewrite the article: KDE developers don't understand release version concept, confuse users with improper 4.0 version number, and gain a reputation for a buggy major release.

I think they completely failed to understand that when you make a release of KDE, people expect it to be a release of the K Desktop Environment, not some libraries that might be used to build the DE. "KDElibs 4.0" "KDE4 Developer Release" "KDE4 Framework" take your pick but don't call it a KDE release if the DE isn't ready for release.

Re:TFS is a lie? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24342869)

so you are the kind of user that started XP without waiting for SP1? and the same with Vista? ok sorry this is not OSS but still the concepts hold if you opt for stability you go for the first service release ea xp.1 vista.1 KDE 4.1 etc. etc...
You probably haven't tried it out yet.

Short Memory Huh? (2, Informative)

JoeSixpack00 (1327135) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342555)

Ummm... okay, so you can rewrite the article: KDE developers don't understand release version concept, confuse users with improper 4.0 version number, and gain a reputation for a buggy major release.

Really? And was the same said of GCC 3.0 & 4.0? I suppose the same was also said of Kernel 2.6?

The bottom line is this: OSS projects are ready when the maintainers tell you they're ready. It's always been like this, and it'll probably always be like this.

ps. I should also point out for those with short memories that GNOME 2.0 wasn't exactly a great release. It was buggy, it lacked features AND applications, and it didn't even have a decent file manager. Nautilus was buggy and dog slow until version 2.4

Re:TFS is a lie? (3, Insightful)

segedunum (883035) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342717)

Ummm... okay, so you can rewrite the article: KDE developers don't understand release version concept, confuse users with improper 4.0 version number

Hmmmm. OK. So there's another one who doesn't understand how open source development works.

Re:TFS is a lie? (4, Interesting)

ospirata (565063) | more than 6 years ago | (#24341933)

That's true, KDE 4.0 was supposed to have stable core libraries, so major applications such as Amarok, Koffice and Kontact could be ported at KDE 4.1. The big issue was this numbering schema. If KDE staff have numbered in the classic way people wouldn't have created so many expectations, and thus there wouldn't have dissapointments.

Re:TFS is a lie? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24342101)

what classic way? I'm no hardcore linux geek - I've been just toying with linux (and KDE) for about 3 years - and even *I* know that any x.0 release, of anything, will be buggy, unstable, and generally not for production use. x.0 means "it runs more than it crashes; but don't expect any sort of solid stability, to get any work done, or for anything to be exactly the same in the x.1 release"

The blame lies squarely with distributors. I wanted to install KDE4 for tinkering purposes, it took me a whole hour just to find the packages - KDE themselves are not trying to push 4.0 onto everyone's desktop because they know that it isn't production quality yet, but still everyone blames them because distributors are sending it out with the latest releases anyway.

Re:TFS is a lie? (1)

xtracto (837672) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342371)

know that any x.0 release, of anything, will be buggy, unstable, and generally not for production use. x.0 means "it runs more than it crashes; but don't expect any sort of solid stability, to get any work done, or for anything to be exactly the same in the x.1 release"

Is that the standard for Open Source projects? if that is, then it is sad. Usually a x.0 release starts with 1.0, marking the first feature complete, tested and QA-ed and out of alpha and beta test software.

Version minor version revisions were usually caused by minor modifications (i.e., minor feature enhancements). Whereas mayor versions implied a major rewrite, major feature additions or whatnot.

Re:TFS is a lie? (1)

xtracto (837672) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342333)

I think what they should have done to name what they released as KDE 4.0 something like Klibs 4. In order to make very clear that what they were releasing was just the underlying stuff.

Maybe they could have even released the K Desktop Envionment 4 as a "public Alpha".

That way media and people would not be confused about WTF to expect from "KDE 4"

Re:TFS is a lie? (3, Informative)

SiChemist (575005) | more than 6 years ago | (#24341935)

On the KDE website, there was no mention of KDE 4.0 being a developer release. It hinted strongly, in fact, that KDE 4.0 was a general release.

It was only after all the problems and complaints that the KDE devs said that the release wasn't for mainstream users.

Re:TFS is a lie? (3, Informative)

amRadioHed (463061) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342467)

That's not true. I remember when KDE4 was released and the expectation from before day one was that it was not ready for mainstream usage.

Re:TFS is a lie? (1)

JoeSixpack00 (1327135) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342601)

Yeah, as if the vast majority of it's users actually compile it from source...

Most people use whatever version their distro decides to ship. It wouldn't be that big of a strech to assume that distros know when Desktop Environments are stable. They just shipped KDE 4.0 anyways, because it enhanced their coolness factor.

Re:TFS is a lie? (5, Informative)

toga98 (109028) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342901)

On the KDE website, there was no mention of KDE 4.0 being a developer release. It hinted strongly, in fact, that KDE 4.0 was a general release.

It was only after all the problems and complaints that the KDE devs said that the release wasn't for mainstream users.

KDE 4.0 wasn't a developer release. What it was, was the first release with major architectual changes for public consumption. This was the first release with a stable library and without this release, a large number of KDE application developers wouldn't have a platform for porting and polishing their applications for KDE 4. Ultimately it is the decision of the distributions on what to include in their releases. I wouldn't consider KDE 4.0 a proper replacement for KDE 3.5.x, but I would make it available for use by application developers.

All this was well known and openly discussed during the planning and development of the KDE 4 platform including 4.0, 4.1, 4.x. To state otherwise is disengenious at best.

See http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20080710131440951 [groklaw.net] for more information.

Re:TFS is a lie? (5, Informative)

Uberdog (73274) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342027)

The main problem is the dichotomy between the KDE platform and KDE environment. It was a stable release of the platform, but not of the environment, because the tools which use that platform and create the environment (all the applications) hadn't been ported yet. They should really be two separate releases.

Re:TFS is a lie? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24342059)

I find the best way to inform people that a release is actually an alpha release is to tell them that it's an alpha release. It seems to me that the KDE developers did not do that.

Re:TFS is a lie? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24342091)

No, only the cake is a lie.

KDE 3 (4, Insightful)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 6 years ago | (#24341811)

I love KDE 3 and I'm quite content to use it. I spent about two years sitting very eagerly getting all excited about KDE 4, and now I'm a little apathetic about it. I'm not sure when and if I'll switch.

KDE 4 has a lot of great things going for it like Phonon, Solid, Akondi, Sonnet, SVG rendering, Decibel, multi-platform, etc.

I'm just not crazy about the desktop experience with it.

KickOff (1)

Ted Freeman (1319075) | more than 6 years ago | (#24341819)

I hope they have done something about KickOff. Last time, v 4.0, visually everthing looked slick and modern ... except for KickOff. It looked like it was part of another project altogether. I didn't like the look or the layout, although the functionality it offered was a big improvement.

Re:KickOff (1)

metamatic (202216) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342357)

KickOff's functionality may have been a big improvement for you, but for some of us it is a huge leap backwards [ath0.com] .

Shouldn't that read... (2, Funny)

jasidwa (246641) | more than 6 years ago | (#24341841)

"K Desktop Environment 4.1 will be released onto the Linux masses"

Calling Capt. Logic (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24341867)

Has Gnome really "gained a lot of ground"?
A lot?
Because of KDE 4.0?

Something about that just doesn't add up. My suspicion is that the vast majority of KDE users are still on 3.5x and jumping ship to gnome doesn't make sense either way.

Re:Calling Capt. Logic (2, Interesting)

budgenator (254554) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342589)

Anybody that has used KDE for a while isn't likely to switch. Going from KDE to Gnome feels almost a foreign as going from KDE to Windows.

Re:Calling Capt. Logic (5, Informative)

piquadratCH (749309) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342617)

I think you misunderstood the excerpt. What it says is that KDE lost ground in the last few years, which it did. Even SuSE, once a cornerstone of KDE's market share, defaults to Gnome now. Kubuntu is not on par with Ubuntu, and Red Hat/Fedora always was a Gnome shop. Today, no major distro has KDE as its default desktop environment. I'd call that "losing ground".

I hope KDE 4 is able to stop or even reverse this trend. I use 4.1 on a daily basis since Beta 1. It's mostly stable and shows big improvements compared to 4.0.

Developers vs. Marketers (2, Interesting)

overshoot (39700) | more than 6 years ago | (#24343251)

I think you misunderstood the excerpt. What it says is that KDE lost ground in the last few years, which it did. Even SuSE, once a cornerstone of KDE's market share, defaults to Gnome now. Kubuntu is not on par with Ubuntu, and Red Hat/Fedora always was a Gnome shop. Today, no major distro has KDE as its default desktop environment. I'd call that "losing ground".

And how much of that loss was due to any technical deficits in KDE? How many places to the right of the decimal point will you need for your answer?

Bottom line: GNOME has better marketing. It started with the "we don't use the eeeeeevil proprietary QT library" thing and hasn't let up. SuSE switched to GNOME after Novell bought SuSE, for instance, and Miguel de Icaza took over. Nothing that KDE can do about that.

For those who don't like the GNOME environment (count me in, but that's taste) this isn't going to change. GNOME has won the marketing war, and due to its total lock on default distro desktops it's impossible to avoid installing GNOME libraries -- but all too easy to skip installing KDE libraries. Which means that developers can count on having the GNOME libraries present, and can't count on the KDE enviroment. Which means that they're going to develop for GNOME, not KDE.

It's not quite over yet, but it's getting there. I'm seeing a fair number of complaints about Amarok requiring KDE libs; some traffic asking when a native GNOME version will be available. KDE 4.x may or may not achieve technical maturity, but right now I'm pretty sure that there won't be a 5.x series.

Re:Calling Capt. Logic (1)

visualight (468005) | more than 6 years ago | (#24343319)

I hope KDE 4 is able to stop or even reverse this trend.

Not ever gonna happen. Companies like RH and Novell have a lot of influence of Gnome and none over KDE, and that is the main driver of which desktop is the default. Stability, features, user base (-Novell!), etc., will not help.

Re:Calling Capt. Logic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24342893)

Perhaps the long delays for KDE4 caused ship jumping?

hey (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24341873)

Shouldn't it be like "in just four point one days"?

kubuntu uses kde 3.x right now (1)

kesuki (321456) | more than 6 years ago | (#24341883)

i've had issues (possibly hardware related) with gnome, but only on one computer...

hopefully kde 4.1 doesn't break on my hardware like gnome did, otherwise i'd have to force 3.x version.

the only part of kde i dislike is dolphin, i like nautilus better. oh yeah, and i still use firefox even with kde.

Re:kubuntu uses kde 3.x right now (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24342021)

The only part of KDE I dislike is also Dolphin, which I loathe and detest with the fire of a thousand suns. I was bothered when it was made the default, but it was easy to remove and get back to Konqueror.

Not that I actually use that much of KDE on a daily basis. If Konqueror, Amarok, and Kate work seamlessly, I might not even notice any changes.

Re:kubuntu uses kde 3.x right now (1)

kesuki (321456) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342449)

oh neat, i switched to nautilus.

"Alt-F2, run "kcontrol". Go to KDE Components -> File Associations, select inode/directory," in application preference order click 'add' then type 'nautilus'. that easy. newly added default to the top. then apply settings and close it.

nautilus needs to be installed of course, it was on mine because i used the meta package to switch to kde.

I switched from KDE... (1)

neoprog (1006513) | more than 6 years ago | (#24341897)

to FVWM. I'm so much happier now. So, thank you to the KDE devs for showing me something better.

Re:I switched from KDE... (1)

armanox (826486) | more than 6 years ago | (#24341945)

FVWM, FVWM2, or FVWM95? FVWM2 is much better then 1 IMHO.

Re:I switched from KDE... (1)

neoprog (1006513) | more than 6 years ago | (#24341977)

Aha. Good point, FVWM2. On Arch, btw.

Wow. (4, Insightful)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 6 years ago | (#24341911)

I know that my writing sucks but this article was bad even by my standards.
Just from the burb.
"The KDE developers were hoping to change this with KDE 4, the new radical release of KDE, but it was not to be. KDE 4.0 was buggy and unstable, leaving everyone except the hard-core KDE lovers."
Leaving everyone except the hard-core KDE lovers what????

Re:Wow. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24342117)

Leaving everyone except the hard-core KDE lovers what????

Nononono..

That sentence makes perfect sense.

Obviously, it means that KDE4 gained sentience, and decided that KDE lovers made it uncomfortable, and so it left them.

Linux Haters Blog (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24342335)

http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/

Slashdot is completely useless for KDE news. LHB is the place everyone is going to now to keep up on the latest open source/Linux news and developments.

FriSst p5ot (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24341915)

KDE Release X.X In A Nutshell (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24341917)

* Some things are fixed/added
* An equal number of things are broken to keep a perfect balance
* KD devs will hang out as ACs flaming everyone and be in general a bunch of miserable pricks
* Sites like http://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/ will continue to mock the sorry state of desktop Linux
* A variety of completely pointless Gnome vs KDE threads will pop up
* Desktop Linux continues to flounder
* Some poor sod has to go inc the 'XXXX is the year of desktop Linux' counter

What is in it for me ( a user ) (2, Interesting)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 6 years ago | (#24341919)

No, I'm serious. Other then some questionable eye candy, what can i as a user get out of 4.1 that would make me want to switch from 3.5.x?

I dont have time to be a developer, so all the 'under the hood coder stuff' isn't directly important to me.

Dont get me wrong, ive always preferred kde, but after 4.0 giving me nothing but grief i need good reasons to switch again.

Re:What is in it for me ( a user ) (2, Interesting)

xtracto (837672) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342407)

For what is worth, is it possible to format an SD or USB thumb drive in any way using the GUI?? I could not find how to do such a thing in Ubuntu (Gnome), Fedora or KDE, the last time I tried (about a month ago), so I had to reboot to windows to do it with a simple right-click format.

Re:What is in it for me ( a user ) (1)

wuulfgar (703966) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342835)

In Kubuntu (KDE of course), I just use: GParted It appears in the K menu as Partition Editor. You select a partition, then click Partition (menu) > Format to > (selection). That's GUI and pretty easy.

Re:What is in it for me ( a user ) (4, Informative)

Kjella (173770) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342443)

1) All KDE applications using Phonon and thus the same sound server, no more "oh I can't play audio here because I'm playing it over there". Or maybe that's pulseaudio's job to really fix, but I'd be happy either way.
2) The Phonon framework hopefully means I can use one media player (Dragon Player?) for all my needs, with a codec backend like on other operating systems. Right now mplayer/xine/vlc work on different media.
3) Once the KDE4 applications are up and running, you can use the same applications on Windows. No need for learning a separate application when you have to use Windows.

That's at least my top three...

Re:What is in it for me ( a user ) (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24342839)

oh joy.. so I can use buggy players (that don't "just play" the content I want), listen to music in application that loads my 5000+ files playlist in stunning 120 seconds (yes, you, amarok), AND have the kicker replacement (don't even remember it's name) that I can't resize because, like, why would I wan't to do that?

I hope (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24341955)

They fixed the menu (is it so hard to add a option to have a normal menu?)

KDE 4 has been very underwhelming (5, Interesting)

slashdotlurker (1113853) | more than 6 years ago | (#24341997)

I have used KDE for almost 10 years now. Tried Gnome many times, but always go back to KDE. In looks there is no comparison, gnome is and always has been plug ugly.

Until KDE 4, KDE was superior in functionality as well. However, KDE4 suffered from multiple problems :

1. It was never meant for everyday users. For instance, a lot of indispensible KDE applets/widgets never made it on release date and some of the simplest tasks (plugging in a USB key) became needlessly complicated. It became good at obfuscating the essential and hyping the beautiful. It should never have been released - or perhaps released as KDE4-CODE which targeted developers alone. I understand that the open source development process depends on people trying out new software and reporting bugs, but this was too big a leap.

2. The developers paid too much attention to the looks of the interface and not much to the interface itself. I have used windows 95/98/NT/2000/XP over the years as well OSX in its many reincarnations, but KDE was always a relief to return to. With KDE4, that is no longer true.

I am not dissing the ideas behind KDE4. Perhaps many of them are overdue improvements if linux is to make it to the average desktop user (an outcome in which I haven't the slightest interest), but it was released too early. It gave an impression of being pre-alphaware and has ruined many people's opinion of the project.

Hopefully 4.1 will win people like me over and give us a compelling reason to upgrade from KDE 3.5.7.

Re:KDE 4 has been very underwhelming (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24342067)

Um... KDE 3.5.9 isn't a compelling enough reason to upgrade from KDE 3.5.7? :-)

Still not a complete transition (5, Insightful)

proxima (165692) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342005)

I'm a big KDE fan, and I've been looking forward to KDE 4 for some time. The volume of complaints about KDE 4.0 surprised me; it seemed fairly clear that 4.0 was about getting a usable but not feature-complete release out so that application developers could target the new platform. By feature complete, I mean supporting all the options that KDE 3.5 has, which blows away every other desktop environment I've ever used. This is, of course, by design, as Mac OS X and GNOME are designed with sensible defaults and a fairly limited set of options.

I think Fedora may have made a mistake in defaulting to KDE 4.0 in the latest release; the KDE folks could perhaps have made the release more explicitly a "technology preview" release. Kubuntu had the right idea - offer it in the repository, but leave the default at 3.5. This allowed me to try out okular, the new document reader (which rocks, btw - finally a decent non-Adobe PDF reader which supports annotations, though they could still use a little work). But having read the early release info, I knew that KDE 4.0 wasn't for me, so I haven't tried it.

The new release brings the kdepim apps to the new KDE libs. Unfortunately, Amarok is on a separate release schedule, so we still have to wait there. For those that use KOffice, that too will be released later in the year, IIRC.

Re:Still not a complete transition (1)

DataTracer (973261) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342253)

The developers were very clear that 4.0 was meant to be a dirty release in order to get the development ball rolling on applications. I have been following the dev closely and for each new milestone, I have tried the live cds. I wouldnt dare use it as my main desktop yet. If you thought 4.0 was supposed to be stable, you obviously dont read or pay attention to what the devs have been saying all along! I really liked the new direction the 4.x is headed in. It will take some getting used to for those who naturally fear change, but by 4.2 or later, I am sure we will look back and praise the devs brave steps... or curse them, ha! We will have to wait and see how Kde shapes. I think the growing pains will be worth it.

Re:Still not a complete transition (1)

slashdotlurker (1113853) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342587)

As a person who uses annotation heavily (I use xournal), I have never figured out a way to *save* the annotations one makes in okular.

Re:Still not a complete transition (1)

proxima (165692) | more than 6 years ago | (#24343299)

As a person who uses annotation heavily (I use xournal), I have never figured out a way to *save* the annotations one makes in okular.

okular saves its annotations based on the filename in your ~/.kde (or ~/.kde4) directory in XML files. This has limitations - you must label your files uniquely, and since the annotations are not embedded in the PDF it's messier to share annotations between people or computers. Still, it's a start. My problems with it have been some rendering glitches and the inability to recognize two-column formats when highlighting more than one line.

wow, didnt know it was a war (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24342053)

how many people have died?
ho many combat deaths? how many injuries?
how are the civilians doing? millions homeless? millions displaced or refugees?

ho many reporters dead? alot of ptsd?

oh? whats that?

its a bunch of people arguing on the internet?

ok.

thats not a war.

KDE 4.1, 4.x release dates are immaterial to me (5, Insightful)

pxc (938367) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342081)

For me, KDE 4 is ready when Amarok 2 is out.

Generally, this should be true. We'll know that KDE is really ready when the next generations of Kopete (IM), Amarok (music), K3B (CD/DVD burning), K9copy (video DVD backup/authoring), and the other end-user applications are ready and integrated. Otherwise, to use KDE apps I'd still need to have the KDE 3.x libs, and if that's the case, why rush to switch?

Re:KDE 4.1, 4.x release dates are immaterial to me (3, Funny)

DarrenBaker (322210) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342301)

All these Ks are giving me a HeadaKe (it's not a tumour).

using KDE 4.1 (5, Informative)

lukrop (1302325) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342131)

Since Archlinux is providing packages for of the KDE 4.1 tag from svn in it's testing repos I've merged to 4.1 and I'm amazed how everything works. I only had to find a new irc client since konversation isn't ported yet but I found Quassel and compiled the second alpha of amarok2 and now I'm happy :)

Just keep using KDE 3.5.x until you want to switch (4, Insightful)

Pooh22 (145970) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342155)

From what I've been reading KDE 4.1 still will be a little on the rough side and there are issues with the closed source nvidia driver (get other hardware!).

There's no obligation to use KDE 4.1, since KDE 3.5 will still be there and supported as well. I don't understand the whining from users feeling let down or dissapointed, you always have a choice.

I try using KDE 4.x.x every now and then, I suggest you try the same without a feeling of being forced to use it, just curiosity!

In the long run, I believe KDE 4 will be a very solid platform for desktops for a very long time (until the next big change of course ;-)

Cheers (and no worries!)

Simon

Less features (0, Redundant)

VincenzoRomano (881055) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342179)

and more bugs, accordingly to bugs.kde.org.
As it has less feature and stability than KDE3, fewer people will use it, thus degrading the use-report-fix cycle.

RC1 on windows? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24342203)

Where's the binary for windows?

Re:RC1 on windows? (1)

andreasg (1010787) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342219)

I was about to ask the same. I Really wanted to try out Konqueror on Windows, the current 4.0 version seems buggy, was hoping this would be better.

I like it (4, Informative)

xrayspx (13127) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342379)

I've been using every weekly build for SuSE 10.3 since 4.0 came out and have seen it get more and more stable. I have some issues, some are KDE's fault, some aren't.
  • No OTR for Kopete yet, which is in Kopete 3.5
  • In Kopete, if you're logged in, and log in from another computer, rather than saying "there are now two of you logged in", it crashes
  • Okular (Awesome!) keeps losing the ability to show me PDFs. I figured this out and fixed it once, then it broke a couple of builds ago and I can't remember what I did.
  • I've never successfully burned a CD with k3b 4.x
  • There is a checkbox that is basically the "make KDE go fast now" option, if I wasn't on a Mac right now, I'd say where it is exactly. The box is set to "slow" by default
  • I can't figure out how to move plasmoid applets around the desktop. So if I have a weather applet, it goes in the top left corner and can't be moved. Luckily, if I make a Folder Browser plasmoid, it goes right over the weather one, and also can't be moved, so...problem solved?

Those are the ones that I've had problems with that are KDEs fault. This one probably isn't, but it makes 4.0 worthless to me:

  • Horrible graphic tearing, mostly in KDE 3.5 apps or GTK apps (kpdf, Thunderbird, Firefox, also any rdesktop session). This seems to be due to be due to using a compositing desktop. I notice it in Compiz too under 3.5. I believe the issue might be that for anything to work, you should sync on vblank, however if you have multiple monitors, sync on vblank freaks out and makes things worse?

Overall though, I really like it, especially since someone clued me in to the Make It Fast setting. This is coming from a KDE user since 1.x. I loved 2.0 when it came. Hated 3.0 (which grew into my favorite GUI of all time including OSX), hated 4.0, like 4.1 OK so far.

The .0 releases. (3, Insightful)

haeger (85819) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342451)

If you've been in the IT industry for a little while you learn to avoid any and all .0 releases. They are more trouble than they're worth. Always.
Windows NT wasn't usable until SP4 I think. XP started behaving semi-resonable after SP2. Vista? I've heard that the latest SP fixes a few of the more critical things (from a users perspective).

OpenOffice 1.0? Not all that great. Firefox1.0? Better than the competition, but good? FF2.0 wasn't without errors.
Actually the first .0 release that I've seen that's been fair is Firefox3.0.

"Avoid .0 releases for they are crappy and full of bugs". You can call that haegers law if someone hasn't named it before.

.haeger

Re:The .0 releases. (1)

eclectro (227083) | more than 6 years ago | (#24343173)

"If you've been in the IT industry for a little while you learn to avoid any and all .0 releases.

What, you have a problem with being at ground zero?

Um.. Come Again? (2, Insightful)

JoeSixpack00 (1327135) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342481)

Recently, Gnome's been gaining a lot of ground on its KDE counterpart in the desktop environment wars.

According to who? At best, this is purely a matter of opinion. From a technological standpoint KDE 3.5.9 is better than Gnome 2.2, and I say that as someone who rather enjoys using Gnome.

Exactly what proof do you have to substanciate this seemingly erroneous claim?

Most of the comments are about 4.0 (3, Insightful)

Filip22012005 (852281) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342571)

Too bad we don't have a good discussion about 4.1. Most of the criticism I read is about 4.0 or the way it was marketed. When 4.1RC1 was available I finally uninstalled 3.5.9. KDE4.1 is really great (except for the nvidia thing, obviously).

I love the plasmoids. It's another dimension of configurability, which is why we loved KDE in the first place. I don't get the ZUI, and it's completely useless to me. KDE4.1 is incredibly stable for me. The looks and responsiveness rival OSX on my system (which is a quad-core with 3GB). Except I decide what colors I want to use.

Better, but Core System Apps not there yet (2, Interesting)

dlevitan (132062) | more than 6 years ago | (#24342905)

I've used KDE 4.1 RC1, but its just not there yet. First, it's still not as stable or bug-free as KDE 3.5. This is partially due to packaging (since Ubuntu hasn't quite figured out all the dependencies yet) and partially due to the code itself. An even bigger problem, however, is the lack of core system applications that just aren't there yet. For example, KPowerSave and KNetworkManager are essentially requirements for any laptop. Neither of these is present nor, for example, does 4.1 let me suspend the system. The backend (Solid) for a lot of these things is present, but now someone has to write the front end that someone can actually control.

And, as others have commented, amarok, digikam, and koffice aren't ready yet either. I think it's going to take until at least 4.2 or 4.3 for it to be really usable and 4.5 until its actually fully polished.

Who started with KDE3.0? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24343065)

I seriously got a question who of you all started using KDE3.0 directly when it came out?
At first i prefered the 2.x version because it gave me much more usability but after a few weeks i slowly started using KDE3.0 more and more and with 3.1 was totally hooked on the new interface and desktop it gave me so much more pleasure then the 2.x version. it still missed out on features but slowly but surely most of them were reitergrated into KDE3
so all in all this is just the evolution of KDE4 into a replacement of KDE3. you will not be forced into the new KDE4 right away.
you can wait and make the switch when you think it is ready

What a wierd, inflammatory summary (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24343113)

As my sibling posts point out, the summary includes opinionated unsubstantiated claims about Gnome, sensationalism regarding how fast KDE is catching up, high claims about the KDE that the devs didn't even make, a false dichotomy, and bad grammar to boot. This summary, in short, was deliberately designed to rile up both the KDE and the Gnome fans. Disappointing, Slashdot.

i know what you expect... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24343121)

expect a lot of dick sucking you dumb fucking faggots.
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