Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Israel Moves Toward a National Biometric Database

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the breaking-ground-for-england dept.

Privacy 476

An anonymous reader writes "Israeli's government has approved the creation of a biometric database which would contain fingerprints and facial photos of all Israeli citizens. If the bill becomes law — and it is at an early stage — the biometric information of each citizen would be embedded in their passport and national ID card. Israeli citizens would be required by law to submit to biometric testing upon request by government employees, soldiers, and policemen, so that their biometric info can be compared to the info embedded in their ID card / passport. The declared purpose of the bill is to combat forgery of passports and ID cards, and also to aid identification 'in cases of a mass disaster.' The bill was approved over objections from civil rights groups and the Israeli Bar. The article notes that no other democratic country has a comprehensive biometric database of all citizens."

cancel ×

476 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

You would think that they would learn from history (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24457647)

The creatures outside looked from nazi to jew,
and from jew to nazi, and from nazi to jew again;
but already it was impossible to say which was which.

Re:You would think that they would learn from hist (1, Funny)

The Clockwork Troll (655321) | more than 6 years ago | (#24457883)

What do you mean impossible?

If you read the article, the Nazi's RFID tags are clearly shaped like swastikas, duh.

Re:You would think that they would learn from hist (5, Insightful)

h4rm0ny (722443) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458005)


And the Israeli tags are shaped like a little star because the government decided that it was a shape that conveyed their aspirations for a better, more peaceful society. And they're bright yellow to make them harder to misplace.

Of all the nations in the world you might hope would be wary of pervasive monitoring, you'd think one that bills itself as a "jewish state" would be it.

Re:You would think that they would learn from hist (1)

DaedalusHKX (660194) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458103)

Wow... I just won a bet over a prediction I made 3 years ago. Thanks Slashdot.

They finally made it public eh?

Re:You would think that they would learn from hist (1)

h4rm0ny (722443) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458711)


Out of morbid curiosity, why is my post modded as troll and why is the GP modded troll and flamebait? The historical resonances are pretty overt.

Re:You would think that they would learn from hist (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24457901)

"but already it was impossible to say which was which"

But already it was impossible to tell which was kosher.

FTFY

Re:You would think that they would learn from hist (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24457971)

The creatures outside looked from nazi to jew,
and from jew to nazi, and from nazi to jew again;
but already it was impossible to say which was which.

Indeed. [heretical.com]

Re:You would think that they would learn from hist (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24458247)

I'll post this as AC, to avoid karma-whoring.

The parent is referring to a book by George Orwell called Animal Farm. It's out of copyright in the UK, so can be read online [readprint.com] (I did the other night, stayed up all night in fact. Yeah yeah, get out more, but if I did that I wouldn't be a Slashdot reader!).

I also highly recommend that, when the reader has finished the book, they do a little mental excercise in matching the animals to the actual people involved in the rise of Stalinist Russia.

Bear in mind that Orwell was writing before the events of the cold war, as far as I can tell the book ends here [tcnj.edu] . Which brings us neatly back to what the parent is referring to:

The creatures outside looked from pig to man,
and from man to pig, and from pig to man again;
but already it was impossible to say which was which.

A little off-topic, but what's a threaded conversation system for?

Re:You would think that they would learn from hist (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24458369)

Thank you for clearing that up. We were probably all as lost as you.

BTW, your literature teacher called. He said get off of slashdot and finish the same report that everybody else had to do in high school.

Re:You would think that they would learn from hist (3, Funny)

Screaming Cactus (1230848) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458351)

Godwin's law on the first post!

Re:You would think that they would learn from hist (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24458373)

The creatures outside looked from nazi to jew,
and from jew to nazi, and from nazi to jew again;
but already it was impossible to say which was which.

It deeply saddens me that this kind of comment can get score 4 on this forum. Is some bad legislation enough to justify opinion that there is no difference between jews and nacis? Or is it just an excuse? Shame on you.

Re:You would think that they would learn from hist (1, Troll)

abstract daddy (1307763) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458421)

I can't believe this shit got modded +5 insightful. Oh wait, this is Slashdot, the home of rabid antisemitism.

This has fuckall to do with Nazis forcing Jews to wear yellow stars. Every citizen of Israel, which is a Jewish country, will be included in the database, which is being built by the aforementioned Jewish country. For the life of me I cannot understand how this is perfectly equal to Nazis forcing Jews in Germany to wear yellow stars right before genociding them. But hey, the complete absence of logic hasn't stopped leftists before from spouting stream-of-consciousness bullshit.

Re:You would think that they would learn from hist (4, Insightful)

Curtman (556920) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458637)

Oh wait, this is Slashdot, the home of rabid antisemitism.

Do you have to be an antisemite to disagree with the politics of Israel?

I mean really.. Do you really believe that saying that Israel behaves badly toward its neighbours and even its own citizens means you are prejudiced or hostile toward Jews?

Give it up.

Re:You would think that they would learn from hist (5, Insightful)

h4rm0ny (722443) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458757)

Do you have to be an antisemite to disagree with the politics of Israel?

The Israeli government and many of its citizens are always implying so. The Israeli governments continual pretense (or perhaps its a genuine delusion) that they represent the Jewish people is one of the most insidious pieces of political trickery in the modern era. Being Jewish does not imply a particular political viewpoint of national affiliation. But some people don't half push the idea that it does...

ISRAEL WE BLESS THEE (0, Flamebait)

vviIIyhiIIl (1334013) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458595)

Today, while driving through town, I wound up behind a minivan that had a big sticker on the back. The sticker had an Israeli flag in the middle of it, and under it the quotation from the book of Genesis that reads âoeI will bless those who bless thee.â

I would like to take this time to list my own reasons for thanking and blessing Israel, our lone ally in the Middle East, for everything she has done for us, since I am quite sure most Americans are unaware of just what kind of friend she has been to us.

For extorting from me and my fellow Americans $4,000,000,000.00 a year for the last 4 decades, we bless thee.

For taking our most sophisticated weapons technology and stealing it for yourself without paying the American patent holders, we bless thee.

For taking that high-tech military technology and selling it to our enemies, such as the Russians and Chinese, thus further endangering us, we bless thee.

For using that weaponry in a sustained attack against a United States ship, the USS Liberty, in an attempt to sink her, thus preventing US servicemen from revealing to the rest of the world information concerning the war crimes they witnessed you commit against Egyptian soldiers in the Sinai Desert during the Six Day War, as well as for the purposes of dragging the US into yet another one of your murderous adventures, we bless thee.

For killing 35 and wounding 170 American sailors aboard the USS Liberty, we bless thee.

For bribing the United States government into covering it up, preventing any justice from being done for the benefit of the families of the lost sailors - as well as the American People, we bless thee.

For sending your agents into Egypt and blowing up American buildings for the purpose of blaming the Arabs in an event known as the Lavon Affair, we bless thee.

For sending your agents into Libya during the Reagan administration, and broadcasting radio messages in Arabic that were designed to sound like âoeterrorist cell planningâ so that the US would initiate military strikes against Khadafi in an event known as Operation Trojan Horse, we bless thee.

For withholding information from us concerning the planned attacks against the US Marine barracks in Lebanon, attacks you knew about through your moles in the Islamic world and about which you deliberately refused to warn us in order to further your interests against the Arabs, we bless thee.

For employing Jonathon Pollard, an American serviceman paid to spy for Israel in order to steal even more of our National Security secrets for your parasitic purposes, we bless thee.

For blackmailing President Clinton through one of your sayanim, Monica Lewinsky, in order to prevent a coherent peace program from being pushed forward between yourself and the Palestinian people whom you have brutalized and murdered for the last 50 years, we bless thee.

For breaking every agreement you have made with your Arab neighbors, stealing their land, displacing, murdering, and treating them like the animals you see them as, we bless thee.

For using your agents within the first Bush administration to involve us in the first Gulf War, causing the deaths of American men and women, and exposing our servicemen to whatever bioweapons were and are responsible which have led to Gulf War Syndrome, we bless thee.

For your role in the September 11 attacks in this country, and for blackmailing and bribing the US government into deporting back to Israel the 100 or more intelligence agents that were arrested after the attacks, we bless thee.

For suppressing the information from the American people of your involvement in the September 11 attacks and sending us in the wrong direction in search of answers, we bless thee.

For using one of your agents in the US Army Weapons Lab to steal anthrax and distribute it into our mail system, terrorizing US citizens and killing several in order to blame the Arabs, we bless thee.

For using your agents in the US Government, namely, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, Abrams, and the rest into initiating this war in the Middle East so that you could bring to heel all the enemies you have made during the last 50 years, we bless thee.

For using your agents in the media to lie to us on a minute by minute basis about the war, lying to us as to how âoejustâ this cause is, and what the real reasons behind it are, we bless thee.

For using your agents in the Christian Evangelical community, such as Falwell, Graham, Swaggert, Robertson and the rest who praise you as Godâ(TM)s chosen people and further keep Americans in the dark about who you really are what you have done, and what you are truly about, we bless thee.

For bringing idiots like Limbaugh, Liddy, Hannity, Beck, Oâ(TM)Reilly and Savage to the forefront as paid liars who will support you and further lead Americans astray, we bless thee.

For making America your attack dog, and for sending her sons and daughters to fight and die in all your future wars, we bless thee.

For using your influence in the media to hide the real statistics about the war, the dead and wounded on both sides, we bless thee.

For using us in such a way that not only further inflames the Arab world against us, but as well has succeeded in our alienating ourselves against those nations with whom we have been friendly for over a century, we bless thee.

And finally, for using your influence in our media and academia to flood our minds with pornography and lies, as well as inculcating in us a hatred for our history, religion, and culture, for dividing our nation between races and sexes, and for releasing into our society all of your plagues and filth that have left us a rotted out corpse of a once great nation, oh Israel, our friend,

we bless thee.

And if you listen closely... (1, Insightful)

clang_jangle (975789) | more than 6 years ago | (#24457657)

...you can just hear the maniacal cackling of the engineers of the Third Reich. Weird how the more time passes, the more it appears they didn't lose the war, after all.

Re:And if you listen closely... (4, Insightful)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 6 years ago | (#24457779)

...you can just hear the maniacal cackling of the engineers of the Third Reich.

Israel is reacting to the threats of regular terrorist bombings.
The Nazis were trying to breed the ubermensch and wipe out the undermensch.
If you want to draw a tie between Nazis and the Israeli State, you're going to have to work harder.

As for the engineers* of the Third Reich, they were ahead of their time. One of the reasons the USA grew so strongly after the war is that we took all the highlights of German industry by way of war reparations.

*engineers as in guys with slide rulers, not the politicians

Re:And if you listen closely... (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24457857)

Israel is reacting to the threats of regular terrorist bombings.

So, if I choose to come and steal your land and you fight back that would make you a "terrorist"? Not buying it.

Re:And if you listen closely... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24457873)

This might work if the land was stolen from the so called "palestinians", but in reality the land was swapped from one empire to another a couple times before a new one was created on the land.

So? (1)

FatSean (18753) | more than 6 years ago | (#24457979)

The people living on that land had very little to do with the Empires which claimed to own the land.
They were just living their lives and saw that some outside forces had made claims. It wasn't until the creation of Israel that those empires had real effects of the average resident. That's when they began to fight back.

Imperialism and nation-building always fails.

Re:So? (0, Troll)

OeLeWaPpErKe (412765) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458123)

Great ! Because it's Jews that were living there, and it's Jews that ARE living there.

So if you really believe in the argument that land belongs to the people living on it, there cannot be any possible argument about the land of Israel : it's Jewish.

The first people in recorded history to live on that land were ... Jews ... and that's just about the only bit of data we have on them.

And if you take the historical Israel : let's not forget that that was quite a bit bigger than the current little spec of land. In fact the original Israel included a few cities that you might have heard of : Damascus, Mecca, Medina, Kirkuk, Amman, ...

These cities are, as historical books accurately described, stolen, by massacres, from Jews. And compared to the amount of Jews that the muslims killed and how long they kept killing them, Hitler looks like an annoying fly on the wall.

Also let's not forget that muslims still execute (as in KILL) people for disagreeing with the statement "Non-muslims are the uglyest animals on the face of the earth", followed by advice on what to do if one irritates you : kill not just one, but enough, so that non-muslims "know their place".

Of course, statements like this do not make islam racist. They would make anything else racist, obviously.

And that would be a really cool definition of where land goes, since that would make over 99% of the muslim lands not really anyone's at all, since, in case you haven't noticed, with a few exceptions (which, almost without exceptions, were quite recently mainly Christian lands, e.g. Turkey before the Armenian Genocide, Sudan, ...) muslim lands are desolate empty wastelands. So someone really ought to go live there, and just claim it as an independant country, right ?

Muslims merely want to conquer, to steal everything from others, like they have stolen so many things already, like the paedophilic massacring thief that was their "prophet". They even stole the temple, and the kaaba, both of which cannot be called muslim by any stretch of the imagination. If you remain unconvinced of the kaaba being non-muslim, google for allah's daughters, and read some history.

"Muslims are the uglyest animals on the face of the earth. Remember, if they do anything bad, do not just kill the muslim that did it, but kill enough muslims, so that the rest knows their place" (Quran 8:22, with "infidels" replaced by "muslims")

Does it? (1)

DaedalusHKX (660194) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458125)

USA USA USA... Canata... Canata Canada... oh wait... Mexic.... oh wait... Brazi... Braz... nvm... lets see... UK UK UK... nvm... wait... where exactly has it failed? I'm not sure the original denizens of any of those lands have descendants left alive to make any claims that empire has failed. Empire has alway succeeded beyond its wildest dreams.

Re:And if you listen closely... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24458443)

A terrorist is someone who fights dirty for a minority / the less empowered. Just because they are passionate about their beliefs doesn't make them right. Buy it.

Oh, yes, terrorists of course; (1)

AxeTheMax (1163705) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458185)

Governments use terrorists. States use threats to its own people to get more control over them. 'Terrorism' has been very useful for this purpose; much better than burglars, 'communist' union activists, or even paedophiles. For a parallel, most Chinese will refer to Tibetan protesters of any kind as terrorists; just what the Chinese government needs.

Re:And if you listen closely... (1)

Leading Stoker (1338003) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458211)

A society that doesn't, or refuses to learn from history, is doomed to repeat it. In this case, Israel is doing exactly what the Nazis did prior to WWII: documenting "real" Germans from Jews, and State threats (e.g., communists; socialists; and about any other 'ist). Today, Israel -- the State -- is watching it's own in the pretense of security. Security won't come from the State in that situation, it'll come when both sides realize they're humans, and humans need peace and understanding to go anywhere.

Re:And if you listen closely... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24458597)

It has nothing to do with terrorism and everything to do with crime. We have Jewish criminals, y'know.

Re:And if you listen closely... (1)

Leading Stoker (1338003) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458741)

That is what the State always says. Hitler said the same to Germans, "it's for the Fatherland's security and yours". The USSR did the same with it's citizens, letting them live under the boot of the KGB. Now will Israel repeat history, and pick the M.O. of either? I hope not, because citizens don't need the State spying on them, as that tells the citizens they're not trusted. A very ominous sign, and one best avoided from any government -- once the government loses trust in it's citizens, that when they'll abuse their power for themselves.

Re:And if you listen closely... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24458627)

okay - keep in mind that the Jewish state originated out of the war with the very people to which you claim the connection is specious. The line of thinking back then - propaganda as a weapon, elitism by race, manipulation of the masses - spread to all parties.

The Israeli's are not an exception.

Re:And if you listen closely... (1, Flamebait)

Curtman (556920) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458679)

If you want to draw a tie between Nazis and the Israeli State, you're going to have to work harder.

Yeah.. The Nazis were already in Germany. The Israelies stole the land of their undermensch and forced them out.

Endless cycle of violence (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24458081)

The purpose of the biometric testing is to restrict the movements of non-Jews in Israel. Jewish businessmen want Arabs to do their less desirable work, but Arabs may not support Jewish policies, so all of their movements must be tracked.

The U.S. government is already fighting a war with Iran [newyorker.com] . There is talk of "diplomacy", but that is only to limit awareness of what the corrupters are doing. There are three groups of people who want war with Iran: weapons investors, oil investors, and Jews. The situation is the same as before invading Iraq. There was talk of diplomacy, but the leaders in Iraq knew that the U.S. government would invade, no matter what was said, so they acted in a hysterical fashion.

The purpose of invading Iran seems to be the same as the purpose of invading Iraq: to restrict the supply of oil even further, so that oil prices will rise even further.

Jews want U.S. citizens to pay for a war with Iran because Jews supported a war with Iraq, and that made other people in the region feel even more threatened, and there is talk of war with Israel. Jews supported a war with Iraq because Saddam Hussein did not like the way they were treating Arabs.

Israel is a country formed of immigrants. The Jews in Europe were not wanted there, because they were seen to be destructive of the common good, such as involvement in manipulating the currency. Jews were restricted in Russia. The idea of forming Israel was that Jews weren't welcome anywhere, so forming a new country would give them somewhere to go. But they have made themselves unwelcome in the region around Israel, also.

Re:Endless cycle of violence (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24458181)

Jews try to take control of any discussion of Jews or Israel. It's probably a good idea to browse this story at -1, so you will see what they don't want you to see.

MOD PARENT UP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24458375)

For fucks sake, how about modding the truth up for a change? Instead of blindly modding things, that don't happen to coincide with your twisted world-view, down?

Freedom! (1, Interesting)

FatSean (18753) | more than 6 years ago | (#24457663)

Sounds more insidious than some of the neighboring countries we decry as anti-freedom.

I wonder how many of my tax dollars are being used by their government to subjugate their people? I don't like this at all, not for any nation.

Re:Freedom! (1)

foobsr (693224) | more than 6 years ago | (#24457787)

I wonder how many of my tax dollars are being used by their government to subjugate their people?

I have heard that the "Near East" is used as a test bed for a variety of contraptions. Thus, be sure that you will have the pleasure to experience all the benefits of each dollar spent.

CC.

Re:Freedom! (2, Interesting)

Dr_Barnowl (709838) | more than 6 years ago | (#24457799)

I wonder how many of my tax dollars are being used

Many. The Israeli security industry benefits enormously from Western spending ; they are respected and renowned as the people with the most experience of dealing with terrorism.

Someone with thicker tinfoil on their hat might suspect that this was a prototype project, pushed through by rich Israeli security industry lobbyists keen to prove their ability for the contracts for Western nations. Someone with double-layered tinfoil might even believe that they already have a contract and this is just the testing phase...

Re:Freedom! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24457915)

"they are respected and renowned as the people with the most experience of dealing with terrorism."

Am I alone in feeling that 60 years of warfare is not a successful strategy that one should try to emulate?

Re:Freedom! (1)

cheroke (1309711) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458171)

Not successful, but they have no choice - Jewish country amidst Muslim region...

Re:Freedom! (1)

OeLeWaPpErKe (412765) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458157)

Actually in reality you're going to find that Arab countries get a LOT more of your tax dollars than Israel does.

Did you know that Saudi Arabia actually demands that the U.S. pays them food aid ?

So do a host of other oil-producing muslim countries. Including, but not limited to : Lybia, Tunisia, Sudan, Algeria, ...

Tax dollars that are, in more than one case, being used to eradicate whole cultures. Currently Sudan is in the news, but you should ask yourself this question : as recently as 100 years ago, people reported seeing entirely black cities on the south of the mediterranean.

What ... what happened to those blacks ? Because there isn't a single black city within 1000 km of the mediterranean coast left.

"jihad" you say, Omar al Bashir ? Now what's that ? Oh right ... "inner spiritual struggle" ... So that's what massacring black people is called these days.

Re:Freedom! (5, Informative)

tukang (1209392) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458007)

Sounds more insidious than some of the neighboring countries we decry as anti-freedom.

I wonder how many of my tax dollars are being used by their government to subjugate their people? I don't like this at all, not for any nation.

According to "The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy" [wikipedia.org]

Israel is "the largest total recipient since World War II" of U.S. aid. "Total direct U.S. aid to Israel for this period amounts to well over $140 billion since World War II. Israel receives about $3 billion in direct foreign assistance each year, which is about one-fifth of America's foreign aid budget." The authors claim that "This largesse is especially striking when one realizes that Israel is now a wealthy industrial state with a per capita income roughly equal to South Korea or Spain."

"Israel is the only recipient of U.S. aid that does not have to account for how the aid is spent." According to the authors, this makes it "virtually impossible to prevent the money from being used for purposes the United States opposes."

Re:Freedom! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24458697)

I wonder how many of my tax dollars are being used by their government to subjugate their people? I don't like this at all, not for any nation.

Every fucking Israeli is on U.S welfare, buddy. [google.com]
I say we cut them off.

Once Again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24457669)

Once again, Jerusalem does what Washington can't do yet.

Excuse (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24457677)

Now other countries can use the excuse that Isreal did it, so "we're not alone"

Re:Excuse (1)

pjt33 (739471) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458453)

The article may be right to state that no other "democratic" country has a comprehensive biometric database of all citizens, but the UK is working towards it. It already has the Act of Parliament.

What about dual citizenship Jews? (1)

peektwice (726616) | more than 6 years ago | (#24457681)

A friend of mine has dual citizenship in the US and Israel. How would this affect someone like him visiting Israel, even though the U.S. is his home?

Re:What about dual citizenship Jews? (0)

foobsr (693224) | more than 6 years ago | (#24457813)

A friend of mine has dual citizenship in the US and Israel.

How comes it that your handle is "peektwice" ??

CC.

Re:What about dual citizenship Jews? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24457933)

How should I know, why don't you ask him?

Good for them (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24457691)

This will improve their security. And before all of you Ben Franklin quoters start yammering, the key word Ben Franklin used was "essential." Biometric databases don't infringe on essential liberties. If you doubt this, then look it up in the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Re:Good for them (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24457713)

...because we all know that the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights is the indisputable authority on what is an essential liberty.

Bullshit.

Re:Good for them (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24457773)

This was obviously modded troll because the moderator didn't like the opinion, not because it wasn't a valid point of debate. It is a valid point of debate. While it may be a minority opinion here at Slashdot, there is no denying that it isn't a majority opinion in many countries around the world (for example, the security obsessed UK).

Moderators: don't moderate down posts just because you disagree with them. That is not the point of moderation.

(Posted as AC to prevent the karma hit from mods who will disagree with this post.)

Fucking cowards. (1)

FatSean (18753) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458023)

Pants-filling pussies disagree about what is an essential liberty. That's fine. They might not like what happens if they actually get their wish and crush the 'non-essential' liberties cherished by many of their countrymen.

This liberal is a proud gun owner.

Re:Good for them (1)

pjt33 (739471) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458547)

While it may be a minority opinion here at Slashdot, there is no denying that it isn't a majority opinion in many countries around the world (for example, the security obsessed UK).

I think you may have miscounted your negatives. On the presumption that you meant to say that in the security-obsessed UK the majority opinion is that a national biometric database doesn't infringe on essential liberties, permit me to observe that the government sold the ID database to a significant (but not exclusive - terrorism was mentioned) extent on matters such as job security: i.e. it will cut down on working by illegal immigrants. Why they believe that employers who don't currently check National Insurance number cards will check biometric ID cards, I have no idea.

In short, a series of Home Secretaries claim to believe that a biometric database of the entire country is so far from infringing on essential liberties that it can be justified without recourse to security.

Re:Good for them (5, Insightful)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 6 years ago | (#24457827)

And before all of you Ben Franklin quoters start yammering, the key word Ben Franklin used was "essential."

Actually, the way that reads, it doesn't sound like he's implying that liberty is essential, not that there are a select number of essential liberties, and all the rest are forfeit. Here's the quote:

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

And if there's really any doubt in your mind of what Franklin's intent was, here's a quote from Poor Richard's Almanac:

Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.

Look, if you really have no problem giving up your liberty, go for it. I'm not stopping you. If you have no problem with the Israelis giving up their liberty, I'd love to hear your argument.

But picking apart the semantics of a historical quote, and then using that to imply that the man agrees with you -- that just makes you look stupid. Honestly, do you think any of the Founding Fathers would've consented to biometrics, when they literally got up in arms over a tea tax?

Re:Good for them (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 6 years ago | (#24457837)

And I should use Preview more often:

it does sound like he's implying that liberty is essential, not that there are a select number of essential liberties...

Re:Good for them (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24458177)

Essential means basic in this context. To talk of 'essential as in necessary' liberty is repetition.

MARK OF THE BEAST (1, Flamebait)

Wonderkid (541329) | more than 6 years ago | (#24457705)

Once again, the Jews set the terms for their own destruction by failing to believe just how evil the outside world is and making it much easier for people who gain access to this information to target specific individuals. Very worrying for one reason: It is not optional! What can you do? Refuse to have your details obtained or leave the country.

Re:MARK OF THE BEAST (2, Interesting)

dvice_null (981029) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458025)

It is not just them. I just run a gallup on a forum where "normal" people in my country like to hang out (mostly female parents). 7/8 of them think that collecting fingerprints from everyone is not just acceptable, but actually a good idea (to catch criminals). They also fail to believe how things could get worse if we accept that. I'm fairly certain that we are doomed.

Re:MARK OF THE BEAST (0, Flamebait)

vviIIyhiIIl (1334013) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458315)

The mark of the beast is SIX SIX SIX.

SIX LINES
SIX TRIANGLES
SIX VERTICES

The Star of David.

Enough said.

A history forgotten (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24457709)

Israel seems not to have learned the lessons of the holocaust.

Part of a middle east solution (0, Troll)

linzeal (197905) | more than 6 years ago | (#24457737)

Why don't they just build more land off the coast of Israel like they do in Dubai instead of occupying other peoples land?

Re:Part of a middle east solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24457791)

Religious fanatics fighting religious fanatics because of a worthless desert, logic doesn't enter the equation.

Re:Part of a middle east solution (1)

4D6963 (933028) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458009)

We should have just officially given them Florida instead... Problem solved.

Re:Part of a middle east solution (1)

ciphersort (1333553) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458591)

That would never have worked because the residents of Florida are one of the best armed populations on Earth.

Re:Part of a middle east solution (1)

4D6963 (933028) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458687)

That would never have worked because the residents of Florida are one of the best armed populations on Earth.

But they're all Jews already ;)

They're almost twenty-five years too late. (1)

pagewalker (1286802) | more than 6 years ago | (#24457775)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four [wikipedia.org]

The implications for privacy and surveillance, are not insignificant.

(Plus there's the implied assumption that citizens are doing something wrong until they can prove otherwise.)

Argh! Comma! (2, Funny)

pagewalker (1286802) | more than 6 years ago | (#24457803)

> The implications for privacy and surveillance, are not insignificant.

Tarnation! I relocated a parenthetical and left a comma in!

Ah, well. Maybe I can captain a starship now.

little green crescents (1, Flamebait)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 6 years ago | (#24457789)

Will they make the Palestinians all wear little green crescent badges on their clothes ?

Re:little green crescents (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24457997)

No, any religious or national identifier on the ID card was illegalized in 2000, there is now a line of stars for nationality. Palestinians per the PA leadership do not want Israeli citizenship so they retain their PA ID cards making them different.

Re:little green crescents (1)

x1n933k (966581) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458091)

Why would they need to, without an Israeli passport they won't be able to stay in their own country.

[J]

Almost (2, Interesting)

tinkerton (199273) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458345)

In fact all Israeli identity cards till recently had to mention the ethnic/religious group. I shouldn't say "since the beginning" but at least it has been like that for a long time.

It is not possible to be "just an israeli".

UK National ID Card (5, Informative)

nickovs (115935) | more than 6 years ago | (#24457819)

The article notes that no other democratic country has a comprehensive biometric database of all citizens.

But the UK is working on it [no2id.net] .

Vrooom, Vrooooooom! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24457823)

Start your Jew-Hating engines up!

(don't forget to post how you're only "anti-israel" and not "anti-jew" - some people might actually believe you!)

Re:Vrooom, Vrooooooom! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24457931)

There's a big difference between the millions of Jewish Americans and Europeans living their simple and/or modern lives as westerners, and Israeli Zionists. Unlike the Israelis, most groups of Jews don't kill thousands every year.

Re:Vrooom, Vrooooooom! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24458779)

And don't forget to post your zionist crap anonymously.

Begin the jokes about (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24457829)

Anthropometry and jewish noses.

Only 5,499,000 Jews in Israel, 14 mil in the world (1)

Futurepower(R) (558542) | more than 6 years ago | (#24457865)

It would be good if Slashdot stories provided some perspective.

When stories about small countries are posted, it is useful to know the population. The entire country of Israel has a population like a big city. There are only 7,282,000 [jewishvirtuallibrary.org] people in Israel. There are only 5,499,000 Jews in Israel. There are only about 14,000,000 [jewishvirtuallibrary.org] Jews in the entire world.

Slashdot often runs stories about New Zealand. There are only 4,270,605 [stats.govt.nz] people in all of New Zealand, both north and south islands.

There are only 21,382,480 [abs.gov.au] people in Australia.

Re:Only 5,499,000 Jews in Israel, 14 mil in the wo (3, Insightful)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458209)

but with the U.S. funding and supporting Israel those 7.2 million get carte blanche to do things for which the 305 million in the U.S.A. get blamed

Almost completely irrelevant! (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458337)

So what? The article is about a democratic country (NOT a religion) passing draconian, Orwellian laws. The size of the population has little to do with it. A nation is a nation.

Re:Only 5,499,000 Jews in Israel, 14 mil in the wo (1)

Dr. Cody (554864) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458527)

Slashdot often runs stories about New Zealand. There are only 4,270,605 [stats.govt.nz] people in all of New Zealand, both north and south islands.

However, there are 45 million [virtualoceania.net] sheep.

The ultimate identity theft (1)

DigitAl56K (805623) | more than 6 years ago | (#24457903)

* Forge ID card
* Find some way to have "your" details "corrected" in the national database
* Who would possibly believe the real identity owner?
* .. without DNA
* .. which I'm sure will be the justification for taking that next.

DNA Forgery (1)

Digestromath (1190577) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458113)

I suppose the next step will be DNA forgery. Underage kids will need some Gattaca like setup to buy beer. It's just the end of freedom as we know it.

A light unto the nations (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24457937)

The French philosopher, Gilles Deleuze wrote the following [blogsome.com] prophetic words 30 years ago:

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a model that will determine how problems of terrorism will be dealt with elsewhere, even in Europe. The worldwide cooperation of states, and the worldwide organization of police and criminal proceedings, will necessarily lead to a classification extending to more and more people who will be considered virtual "terrorists." This situation is analogous to the Spanish Civil War, when Spain served as an experimental laboratory for a far more terrible future.

Today Israel is conducting an experiment. It has invented a model of repression that, once adapted, will profit other countries...This conflict is a curious kind of blackmail, from which the whole world will never escape unless we lobby for the Palestinians to be recognized for what they are: "genuine partners" in peace talks. They are indeed at war, in a war they did not choose.

National Registration Act, Singapore (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24457949)

Singapore's had their National Registration Act since 1966.

Every Singapore Citizen is registered, with their facial photograph and fingerprints (and more).

Re:National Registration Act, Singapore (1)

Hideyoshi (551241) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458087)

But Singapore is not a democratic country. Sure, they hold elections, but the results are as predictable as those of any election held in the Soviet Union ...

Israel is not democratic, either (1)

Conley Index (957833) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458549)

> But Singapore is not a democratic country.

Neither is Israel as argued by many political scientist. (I am not one, so look out for better sources if my arguments sound clumsy.)

You know that elected Arabic Israeli representatives have to agree to Israel being a Jewish state? Otherwise they cannot go into parliament. Do you think the Arabic minority feels represented by them? And then, no one will work with them on principle -- many members of parliament will leave once the Arabic representatives are speaking.

Moreover, Israel occupies a country. The Palestinians are not given citizenship. Is that democratic?

If an Arabic Israeli citizen chooses to live in the West Bank for some time, he will lose his citizenship (and right to vote, return to Israel, etc.). Weird democratic country.

The refugees are denied their right (human rights carta) to return home -- because Israel is afraid not to have a Jewish majority anymore. Is it democratic to select your citizens like that?

Israel fails many aspects of a modern democracy.

Probably not part of the theory, but if a minority of extremists in power does everything not to come to peace with the Palestinians, which the majority wants in some way or another, there is something wrong. The same applies for the Palestinian side, of course, but the West Bank and Gaza is not a modern democracy, either, aside from the fact that they are occupied and cannot rule themselves anyhow.

Re:National Registration Act, Singapore (1)

Tunfisch (938605) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458293)

In Spain, every citizen must provide a picture and fingerprints for the national ID card, which is compulsory from 14 years of age.

Spain is a democratic country.

It's just one worrying trend (5, Insightful)

Kupfernigk (1190345) | more than 6 years ago | (#24457951)

Orthodox rabbis get to choose who is Jewish. This may not seem odd or eccentric to non-Jews. But the State of Israel is special. Many Jews - especially the most highly educated - are not Orthodox; they are Conservative or Reform. For those who have been following (if anyone) the goings on in the Anglican Church, with the progressive Episcopalians being attacked by the fundies who are attempting to marginalise them, similar things happen in Judaism. In the UK, possibly the three best well known rabbis in recent years are Lionel Blue, Jonathan Magonet and Julia Neuburger. All Reform. Who does the Government regard as being the "leader" of British Jewry? The Orthodox Chief Rabbi, head of a shrinking population of Orthodox who are actually observant. Some people, myself included, would describe him as a not very nice person who exaggerates his own importance. Others might use stronger language.

Many Reform jews are pro-Zionist (think the State of Israel is a good thing) but strongly disapprove of the way it treats Palestinians, the Lebanese and their other neighbours, and object to the hypocrisy of Israel having 200 nuclear warheads and then complaining about regional destabilisation (e.g. the letter from Gerald Kaufman MP in the Guardian this weekend). The result is often quite vicious attacks by Orthodox Jews.

Now look at this in the context of this biometric database. It is a wonderful opportunity for the Orthodox in Israel to identify Jews who they may regard as troublemakers. (They already routinely do things like refuse to recognise marriages of non-Orthodox Jews, or refuse to recognise conversions ratified by Reform rabbis). This database will give the police and the army more power to identify and harass, not only the Palestinians, but people who disagree with the settlers and the ultra-Zionists.

Many of the founders of Israel were secular; a lot of them were socialists. I think they would be horrified by this proposal and would even quote the Torah against it.

Ah, the irony (1)

hyades1 (1149581) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458021)

A system Hitler would have had wet dreams about, and it's a right wing Jewish government that is bringing it into being. How long until some uniformed Israeli soldier struts up to a family and arrogantly demands, "Your papers. Immediately!"

I would bet the majority of Jews around the world and in Israel are horrified by this measure, and disgusted by the people who want to implement it. What price security?

How long? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24458213)

How about "long ago"?

Israeli citizens already have to produce the mandatory ID when a policeman requires it. The only difference is that under the new law (if it passes), the policeman would be able to veryfy that the ID his been given really belongs to the individual holding it.

As an Israeli, I see no problem here. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24458101)

It seems as if the common American citizen has an unreasonable fear of it's government. It's a sentiment most of the world doesn't share.

I don't think my government is "out to get me". For the most parts, it has my best interests in mind. After all, if the elected officials fail to meet my expectations, I won't vote for them comes the next election.

Could it be used for evil purposes? Sure. So what? Almost everything could. I could run you over with my car, does this mean that all cars should be outlawed? Let them have their biometric database and keep a vigil watch to ensure they only use it appropriately.

Re:As an Israeli, I see no problem here. (1)

Tuoqui (1091447) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458297)

The problem with these sorts of things is they tend to be secret databases that John Q Public cant just go and check if things are being used appropriately. When the watchers are the ones who get to select their own watchers then potentially extremely inappropriate uses can and most likely will occur.

Re:As an Israeli, I see no problem here. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24458411)

But how could it be used? They'll have my name (which they already have), picture (already have), and fingerprints (ditto). The only difference is that now, the police could verify these on the field, without a court order.

Think about it: Mr. Smith goes into a bank, produces a forged ID and open an account under the name Mr. Jones. The real Jones will discover his life savings just disappeared because there was no easy way to verify his identity! We have stories of honest citizens getting fines on offenses they had nothing to do with, because the true offender used a fake ID. With this system, such forgeries would be much harder and therefore much rarer.

Embed and identifying code into the ID card and the only way to get this data is by producing the actual ID card; the evil policeman won't be able to pull the data by typing my ID number into his computer terminal. Sure, there's probably a way to abuse this system, but that's true to almost anything. the real question is not whether it can be abused but does the benefits outweigh the risks - and in this case, they are.

Obviously not a history major. (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458391)

You have no problem with this? Read your history! You should have EVERY problem with this.

--
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - And variations on this theme, commonly attributed to George Santayana

Reality Check: They have had this data for years (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24458117)

Since most the country does compulsory army duty, they already have everyone's fingerprints, photos, dental records and blood tests etc. (things that army needs to identify you when you come home in multiple pieces)

Since the US and UK have mandated biometric passport data, they would be collecting biometric data anyway.

The only thing that this does is cover the remaining percentages and have dogged the army.

A national ID card has been around for many many years. Luckily for Israelis they do not have a governments that seem to abuse this data nor a high court that bends over and looks the away when people try and abuse this power.

The reality is that the data exists. The only new factor here is that it will be embedded on your ID card rather then click away on a terminal.

Not really surprising. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24458267)

Speaking as an American, I can't say I'm very surprised. For all our talk of 'war on terror' and Israel's experience with terrorism, I find it amusing how a nation founded by terrorists [wikipedia.org] , terrorist organizations [wikipedia.org] , and terrorist acts [wikipedia.org] receives such unflinching support from the US. I pray that someday somebody in Washington will have the guts to review our foreign policy and aid towards Israel and see that Israel is more of a liability than an asset to our relations with other Middle-Eastern countries. In short, Washington needs to tell AIPAC [aipac.org] to fuck off.

not a democracy (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24458275)

Israel is a racist kleptocracy kept in power by a military dictatorship styled junta, with a few similar alleged political parties who spend all their time trying to rip each other off. Home to the biggest hard drug dealers and slavers and business thieves on the planet. It is not a democracy, 2/3rds of the people there, people born there with unbroken lineage going back thousands of years, can't travel freely or vote and are routinely subjected to imprisonment on a whim, arbitrary execution in the streets, beatings, torture, etc. They let people die at checkpoints because they can't travel to a hospital. The nation has no ethical legitimacy, none whatsoever, it is based on a WW2 incident done by europeans to other europeans, so any "homeland" for the victims should have been carved out of germany and italy. Oh ya, how "dare" the victims fight back with whatever they have, the nerve of those people, they should just lie down and let the bulldozers go to work on them. Kids who have grown up in total despair and hoplessness behind barbed wire in camps and bantustans throwing rocks at tanks, call them "terrorists" and shoot them in the head.

Typical israeli behavior, military junta jerks. This doesn't make me a fan of the mullahs or sheiks either, they are exploitative jerks as well to their own peoples, but let us not exalt israel as some shining example of freedom, it is not, it is based on state sponsored terror and slow genocide of the people who really have a legitimate "claim to the land" there. And it continually puts the rest of the planet at peril for some global war, even including nuclear weapons, because they got allowed to have them no questions asked. Might as well go down to the 'hood and pass out free 'nines and grenades, it is that stupid to have allowed that to happen.

And Germany, what hypocrites, all "sorry" for WW2 and hate speech crimes for holocaust researchers and so on. Put up or shut up Germany, you could still do it, move completely out of an entire province and give it to the israelis to move to for a legitimate homeland, until then, stop whining and saying you are sorry. Actions speak louder than words. You just exported your mess and refuse to take responsibility for your actions, that and the US and UK who were more than willing to dump the jewish refugees over on some poor area in the middle east. Freekin hypocrites.

Wow. fuck you Nazi trolls (0, Flamebait)

gelfling (6534) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458495)

Nothing like a technical article that includes "Jews" or "Israel" to bring out all the fuckheads.

Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You

Die screaming all of you.

I am an Israeli (5, Interesting)

Shohat (959481) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458639)

This thing probably won't pass. I know that for Americans it's very hard to understand, but being a liberal and serving in an elite combat unit goes hand in hand here.
If you don't believe me, just read the news stories, and the bios [wikipedia.org] of the kidnapped [wikipedia.org] soldiers. The front lines are CEOs, lawyers, scientists, mathematicians, accountants and what not. The middle+ class are the people that go to war. The most leftist and liberal leaders were always the best generals - Rabin (Oslo) , Barak (pulled out of Lebanon), and in his last years, Ariel Sharon who pulled out of Gaza. And most importantly, there is not a single religious general, and Israel never had a religious leader.
I design complex real-time control systems (Mostly based on PIC/NEC/Toshiba ), and like any Israeli, for 28 days a year, I become a soldier. Despite what you may or may not understand about our society, chances are that there is plenty of holes in your understanding how this microscopic 5 million people country works.
But point is, nobody here trusts the government, the current government is extremely weak, and on the verge of being replaced. This thing will not pass. Most people here read 1984 =).

Isreli Laws require Some experience (5, Informative)

shlompo (1338043) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458713)

Before you all get excited: the law stands at "kriaa tromit", which means it's just now readt to be voted on. Each law has to be voted three times after this stage... I'm sure it won't pass, since other draconic laws were blocked. This particular stage, is very easy to pass, for any law, even crazy ones....

But i don't think you appreciate the situation with Israeli documents: they are the most popular forged documents in the world right now: our passports are the easiest to mangle with, and because many countries trust Israeli passports, it's the most bought passport in the black market. Even the Israeli ministry of foreign affairs issued several rules to disencourage Israeli tourists from selling their passports... Our IDs are also quite popular, since we still have problems of women trafficking...

And about terrorism... well, i doubt anybody actually thinks this system will have anything to do with that. There are a very few actual cases, compared with the total, where Israeli citizens Arabs were involved in terrorist activity...

And the last comment i have on this issue, is that in the end, friends, it all comes down to money. Some CEO, with a security system, is related to some government official, and is going to rip off the treasury, when he accidentally of course, win the auction for creating the system. At least that was true for many other security related systems in Israel, the ones that did not go through the defense industry.

Hope I shed some light.

Democracy? (1)

tinkerton (199273) | more than 6 years ago | (#24458751)

It is a bit contentious to call Israel a democracy. A few years back a poll from the Israeli Democracy Institute (IDI) [idi.org.il] concluded: In sum, from the relative ranking across all the indicators, Israel may be classified as a formal democracy that has not yet succeeded in incorporating the characteristics of substantive democracy. Not exactly a suspect source.

Democracy? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24458797)

"Democracy"? Really?

I guess like any "good" democracy, they marginalize a significant portion of their "populace". (Of course, I can't use the word "citizens" since Palestinians aren't considered citizens.)

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>