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Interview With an EVE Pirate

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 5 years ago | from the life-in-the-shadows dept.

Role Playing (Games) 222

Within any game, especially massive games, there is usually a well established culture. This of course ultimately leads to some sort of counterculture (usually a la griefer). CCP's EVE has been able to give life to a counterculture that isn't completely destructive and makes for a very rich gameplay experience. Massively recently had a chance to sit down with one of EVE's leading criminals to discuss life as an outlaw. "One notable criminal organization devoted to piracy is Veto Corp, headed by their CEO Ethan Verone, who is without a doubt one of New Eden's more notorious pirates. Under his guidance, Veto Corp has been linked to numerous incidents of ransoming, hijacking, and illegal arms sales, among their many other crimes. Their modus operandi of shunning territorial control in favor of remaining fast and free ensures that Veto can conduct 'business' and hit targets anytime, and practically anywhere."

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so much for notorius (4, Informative)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 5 years ago | (#24483207)

I don't speak for all of Eve players, but I've certainly never heard of them.

Re:so much for notorius (4, Funny)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 5 years ago | (#24483541)

In his mind, he's a legend. In real life, a fry cook at Denny's.

Re:so much for notorius (1)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 5 years ago | (#24485039)

I know a fry cook at denies. HE does something else now because he could get the orders correct.

Re:so much for notorius (3, Funny)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 5 years ago | (#24485165)

In his mind, he's a legend. In real life, a fry cook at Denny's.

That's just his secret identity!

I've heard of Ethan Verone (1)

StCredZero (169093) | more than 5 years ago | (#24483563)

I've heard of Ethan Verone. I used to read his posts on Eve-Pirate.

Re:so much for notorius (2, Informative)

Sta7ic (819090) | more than 5 years ago | (#24484121)

I don't recognize the character's name, but VETO's been around the block long enough to curb stomp a lot of other corps (guilds). Mean customers that most of the old hats know well enough to take seriously.

Re:so much for notorius (1)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 5 years ago | (#24484273)

how do they stand up to say, BoB?

Re:so much for notorius (2, Informative)

Sta7ic (819090) | more than 5 years ago | (#24484563)

Never dealt with VETO. I'd imagine they'd have fewer numbers, but a LOT more T2 cruisers & T2 battlecruisers. It's an apples-to-oranges comparison, though, since BoB is territorial and "holds space", while VETO looks for soft targets to pirate.

Re:so much for notorius (1)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 5 years ago | (#24484927)

so for people that are like veto, where do they stand up?

Are we talking excess squads of slepnirs or something?

Do they compare to AAA or is AAA considered wholly territorial?

Re:so much for notorius (1)

Sta7ic (819090) | more than 5 years ago | (#24486525)

Respectively:

* I've never dealt with VETO. Go find them, or check their KB.
* See #1
* I haven't dealt with AAA in the last 12 months. Go ask AAA.

Re:so much for notorius (5, Insightful)

indy_Muad'Dib (869913) | more than 5 years ago | (#24488029)

you spelt it wrong, its BoD.

Band of Developers.

they run into problems they have their pet admins fix it for them.

Re:so much for notorius (1)

Volatar (1099775) | more than 5 years ago | (#24484485)

Well I have, and I haven't played EVE for 2 years.

You must just live in 1.0 :P

Yar! (5, Funny)

Kingrames (858416) | more than 5 years ago | (#24483215)

Just doin his part to keep EVE Online free of Global Warming.

Re:Yar! (-1, Redundant)

Toandeaf (1014715) | more than 5 years ago | (#24483387)

This is a Flying Spaghetti Monster reference, for those who didn't get it.

Re:Yar! (-1, Flamebait)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | more than 5 years ago | (#24485101)

No, it actually has nothing to do with the FSM, as I recall the image. It's linked to by Wikipedia's FSM page, but the image itself doesn't mention the FSM, it's just about logical fallacy.

Re:Yar! (4, Informative)

The Iso (1088207) | more than 5 years ago | (#24486241)

The pirate/temperature graph has been part of FSM scriptures [venganza.org] since the beginning.

What about the EVE Clowns? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24483231)

And who will win the eternal battle between clowns and pirates?

Re:What about the EVE Clowns? (1)

BobMcD (601576) | more than 5 years ago | (#24483927)

Stop! You had me at Ninjas...

ugh god (5, Interesting)

deathtopaulw (1032050) | more than 5 years ago | (#24483245)

this is why I love eve
the developers don't try to shelter their users
they openly designed it so there could be things like this.

eve is a real mmo the way it should be done

Re:ugh god (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24483401)

Whatever EVE may be, it doesn't generate a ton of reponses...

Re:ugh god (1)

CogDissident (951207) | more than 5 years ago | (#24483409)

So endless masses of spreadsheets and gameplay so slow that a sloth swimming through molasses makes it look "fast paced"?

Re:ugh god (2, Interesting)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 5 years ago | (#24483579)

And this is why Eve will forever remain a niche MMO. Fine and dandy with me if it helps keeps the assholes off WoW and Guild Wars.

Re:ugh god (1)

Hairy Heron (1296923) | more than 5 years ago | (#24483611)

As long as you carebears stay away all is good.

Re:ugh god (3, Interesting)

darkwing_bmf (178021) | more than 5 years ago | (#24483881)

No problem. I tried Eve. I found that the only way to beat the game, if griefing is not your style, is to not play. The game is made for griefers and, at it's core, is nothing more than an unbalanced pvp game. The few times one of the corps I joined pvped, it was mind numbingly boring (space is big). And when I was solo trying to mine, well, there was no point really. The missions get old. Honestly, if all the carebears would use some common sense and stay away, the pirates would have nothing left to do and the game would die. Pirates never fight on even terms (they always hide when out gunned), which means if there were only pirates, they'd either be waiting out other pirates that were hiding (boring) or they'd be hiding themselves from bigger pirates (also boring).

Re:ugh god (4, Insightful)

Rakshasa Taisab (244699) | more than 5 years ago | (#24486667)

I don't grief yet I find it enjoyable to play. (non-carebear industrialist) Think of the griefers as NPC's, as if AI had advanced (or receded) 100 years. They are your opponents in the game.

If you keep thinking of the other players as 'intruding on _YOUR_ game', you'll never understand EVE. The players are the game, not the brainless rats.

Re:ugh god (2, Interesting)

HanClinto (621615) | more than 5 years ago | (#24486905)

If you keep thinking of the other players as 'intruding on _YOUR_ game', you'll never understand EVE. The players are the game, not the brainless rats.

Wow, that was insightful, thanks.

In all seriousness, this may be one reason why I've never understood EVE.

I'm intrigued.

Re:ugh god (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24487023)

There is no "beating" Eve. It's an expansive MMO with an ongoing storyline. It's massive to the point that no single person - regardless of how many accounts they own and how much free time they have - can fully explore all parts of the game from all points of view.

Yes, the game starts out slow. And it has to - the interface is so complex, powerful, and loaded with features that you'd be lost beyond hope if it started out fast-paced. The gameplay starts out slow for the first few days (unless you immediately join a 0.0 corp) so you can learn how to use enough of what's available to you to actually accomplish something.

Carebears can do just fine in Eve. In fact, you can do just fine in a big corp in a big alliance in Eve living in 0.0. As long as there are plenty of others around you to fullfill other roles (security, intel, defense, etc), you can sit and mine all day every day if you want. Or you can salvage ship components. Or you can trade on the market. There's a ton of money to be made for anyone who moves ships and equipment to 0.0 space. Alternatively, you can avoid corps altogether and run around high-sec all day every day. As long as you're in a 0.5+ system, the chances of getting ganked are about 10,000 to 1. Having played for years, I've never once been suicide-ganked in high-sec empire space. And honestly? I've never heard of anyone I know getting ganked in high-sec empire space.

And of course pirates don't fight on even terms. What kind of idiot would? Do you get extra points for winning an evenly-matched fight? No, you get a damaged ship and/or damaged equipment. (ie. you get a repair bill). It's a brutally open universe. I can get 20 of my best pals together with battleships and sit on low sec gates all day blasting the Hell out of people in the tiniest of ships. No one forces them to go through there. The game provides ample information for finding out about gate camps before anything is lost. So why do people decide to blow through without paying attention? Laziness, ignorance, or some other personal problem. Want safety in low-sec? Have someone scout for you. Want to safely transport expensive good across large, dangerous areas? Contract out the job.

Eve is a game where you can go for years without dying if you're smart and pay attention (and are highly averse to risk). However, one of the beautiful things about Eve is that no matter how much you die, no matter how much you lose, you can always come right back. Ships and equipment are disposable in Eve. Once you get used to the fact that you ARE going to lose everything at some point (unless, again, you play the 'safe' game), it becomes a whole lot easier to accept loss.

There have been times when I've been trapped in a hostile system with no chance for escape. Did I cry in a teacup because of that? No, I joked on the local channel (which is viewable to all in the same system) with the guys trying to kill me. I did what I could to throw off their scans, I ran for the gate when I had the best possible chance, and then I got popped. Did I run around screaming and crying and calling people names? No, I updated my clone and went about my business.

Eve is not a game that will coddle you. It is not a game for people who can't handle losing. It's definitely not a game for people who are terrified at the thought of not being safe by the design of the game. Eve is wide, wide open, and has just enough safety built in to make for a good story and a reasonable chance to get yourself started.

Pirates fight whenever they can (3, Interesting)

Wee (17189) | more than 5 years ago | (#24487453)

Pirates never fight on even terms (they always hide when out gunned)

Not at all true. We get in all kinds of fights that are even, lopsided, traps, whatever. You get a couple fleets slugging it out, and them you get stomped. No problem, you know now you can bait their big stuff out, so you plan ahead and then get your payback (and not necessarily with a larger fleet; more often than not, good planning and little quick thinking is more important than sheer numbers.

Another example would be faction warfare PvP. There's gangs of all sizes flying around. You have 12, they have 21? Well, what sizes are we talking about? Hmmm, we have two more cruisers than them, yeah, might work, if we can take that ship first, then that one, then either of those two. Good tactics and a good fleet commander making good decisions easily doubles the size of your fleet.

I think you were fell victim to one too many can flips and finally got pissed enough about all that veld you were losing that you quit -- without a full picture of what the entire game has to offer. You use the phrase "mind numbingly boring". What is mining if not that? Where's the excitement in watching a mining laser fire off again and again and again...

-B

Re:ugh god (2, Insightful)

Das Modell (969371) | more than 5 years ago | (#24484761)

Yes, because wanting to play a game without some sociopath constantly ruining and interrupting it is being a "carebear." Give me a fucking break.

Re:ugh god (0, Troll)

Hairy Heron (1296923) | more than 5 years ago | (#24486211)

Have fun in your instanced PvP, carebear.

Re:ugh god (1)

Das Modell (969371) | more than 5 years ago | (#24486743)

You could not provide a real counter-argument because you know I'm right.

Re:ugh god (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24487595)

You can plan Eve that way. Find a nice, out of the way system in high-sec empire space (plenty of those) and mine/run missions/fly in a circle/trade on the market/kill NPCs/etc, or whatever it is you want to do, 'til your heart's content.

The game gives you options. It gives you the option to be safe, and it gives you the option to be suicidal. And best of all? It gives you the option to be anything in between.

If you want a game that coddles you and gives you a straight, specific path from A to B, Eve isn't it. If you want a game that gives you freedom, give it a try; just be prepared for the fact that you're not the only one who gets that freedom.

Re:ugh god (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24485821)

No, eve will stay niche because it is incredibly slow, tedious and boring. Plenty of people like PvP, they just want it to not be sleep-inducing.

Re:ugh god (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24486727)

WoW is populated by angsty teens with too much free time on their hands.

Eve is populated by their parents.

Re:ugh god (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24483717)

EVE is awesome. It's exactly what the developers wanted it to be, and I'm glad it exists. Every second you bastards spend playing it is one more second you're not talking about tits on my servers.

I salute you, CCP.

Re:ugh god (1)

dontPanik (1296779) | more than 5 years ago | (#24483909)

Sounds pretty cool, I may try it out, although it doesn't sound like it's very newbie friendly...

Re:ugh god (4, Interesting)

azuredrake (1069906) | more than 5 years ago | (#24484185)

It's not newbie friendly at all, in that it takes literally years of paying CCP your monthly fee in order to reach the point where you can fly the big ships that bring in the massive profits.

EveMon [battleclinic.com] will let you see how long it would take you and how much ISK (Eve money) it would cost you. Basically, I quit when I realized I'd get more enjoyment running a mining bot for two years while I was at work than I would if I were actually playing.

Re:ugh god (1)

NightRain (144349) | more than 5 years ago | (#24485901)

You can get in to a tech 1 battleship in no time at all (something like 2 months?) and that's all that's needed to run level 4 missions. And once you can do that, you've got a license to print money, and you will make far more money than you will from mining (unless you're talking about mining in 0.0)

Re:ugh god (1)

pragma_x (644215) | more than 5 years ago | (#24486077)

I'm glad someone posted about this.

I tried the free trial they have/had (?) and was dismayed at how penalized I was for beeing a newbie.

1) select waypoint for warp.
2) guide ship into hyperspace bridge
3) [alt+tab] to do something else for 5 minutes
4) mine asteroids
5) go to step 1

...and that got me through the newbie storyline, and I still didn't have enough ISK to do very much.

The insider tip is that you glom onto some friends of yours that are experienced and they "finance" you up a few rungs to get decent ships and tasks. The rest is all experience.

Re:ugh god (1)

FinestLittleSpace (719663) | more than 5 years ago | (#24486691)

Yep, I played the trial and found the mining monotonous but the game still massively enthralling. I hung about a few areas and went on chat and a nice small corp actually handed me quite a LOT of cash to do something proper with.

Thing is, you have to know how to spend that money wisely to really benefit from it.

I decided that I may actually lose my entire free time (and job) (and girlfriend) if I carried on playing Eve anymore. It got me hook line and sinker. It's brilliant but I figured there MUST be better things to do with my spare time!

Re:ugh god (3, Funny)

shannara256 (262093) | more than 5 years ago | (#24487087)

Basically, I quit when I realized I'd get more enjoyment running a mining bot for two years while I was at work than I would if I were actually playing.

In that case, have I got a game for you: http://www.progressquest.com/ [progressquest.com]

Re:ugh god (1)

silvermorph (943906) | more than 5 years ago | (#24487265)

Maybe they should add a "mining bot" entity to the game world, then. Since players seem to find it too boring to do themselves.

Re:ugh god (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24487899)

this is pretty much bullocks. you can fly things like battleships with the appropriate skills very well in only a few months; no different from what it takes you to reach a high level in WoW if you play a reasonable amount of time per day.

Re:ugh god (1)

tukkayoot (528280) | more than 5 years ago | (#24484181)

this is why I love eve
the developers don't try to shelter their users
they openly designed it so there could be things like this.

Yes, it certainly makes for a nice change of pace.

EVE appeals to me as a role-player and someone who likes to be immersed in games I play because there the your actions in the world (and the rewards you earn in the world) don't feel overly contrived as they do in most MMOs. In EVE, there are a lot of ways you can make your fortune: join a non-Empire Alliance and enjoy the fruits of 0.0 space (while fighting wars to control that space, or paying "rent" to someone who does so for you), you can be a mercenary, a pirate with varying degrees of honor, a pirate-hunter, a participant in Empire factional warfare, an Empire mission runner, a space trucker, a trader, a market manipulator, an industrialist of various types, a ninja-salvaging vulture, a miner, an explorer, a con artist ... and those are just roles that the game mechanics more or less explicitly support.

All of these different "roles" you can play feel more or less natural in the world, and you ARE what you play. In a game like World of Warcraft, if are a blood elf paladin, and that dictates the sorts of abilities you have at your disposal (and thus the sort of mechanical "role" you play in the content you experience) but the different roles you play don't really feel like they have a lot of connection with the flavor of the world you're playing in, so there's no real sense of immersion. You can be a PvP or PvE tank, healer or DPS, but you don't FEEL as much like you're a knight in shining armor, or a warlock in control of wicked dark arts as much as you FEEL and like you're a pirate in a game like EVE.

eve is a real mmo the way it should be done

Well, to some extent. I say different strokes for different folks, but EVE definitely gets some things right that no other MMO has even come close to nailing.

The problem (well, the one BIG problem) for me is that the interface is absolutely atrocious. After playing WoW, with all of its options for customization and modification, when I play EVE, I feel like I'm half-blindfolded and wearing mittens. The font is difficult to read, and against the nebulae in the background I often have a hard time telling which modules are active. Simple actions (like looting a wreck) are a lot of more tedious (and sometimes physically painful) than they need to be. I'm sure most of the EVE oldtimers have gotten used to it all and are hardly bothered by it, but for me it's a game-breaker and a deal-breaker.

Re:ugh god (1)

Cornflake917 (515940) | more than 5 years ago | (#24485477)

You can be a PvP or PvE tank, healer or DPS, but you don't FEEL as much like you're a knight in shining armor, or a warlock in control of wicked dark arts as much as you FEEL and like you're a pirate in a game like EVE.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Pirate isn't really a player class in Eve. It's more of an occupation if anything. As a pirate in EVE you choose to ruin other people's evenings by destroying their hard earned ships and taking their equipment. You can achieve the same thing in a WoW PVP, by going around and ganking noobs of the other faction while they try to finish quests. It might not be quite at the same level of assholness, but it's the same idea. In WoW, you can also be a market profiteer, a crafter, a guild backstabber, and oooh even a fisherman (beat that EVE)!

You can't really talk up EVE's immersion too much because when you run the exact same mission 18 times you should begin to think: "Didn't I already destroy this NPC pirate stronghold?"

Re:ugh god (1)

NightRain (144349) | more than 5 years ago | (#24486079)

You can't really talk up EVE's immersion too much because when you run the exact same mission 18 times you should begin to think: "Didn't I already destroy this NPC pirate stronghold?"

The reason that's not much of a problem though is because missions are such a tiny part of what eve is and what you can do. Yes, the repetitive missions do damage the immersion, but the fact that there is an ingame reason for why you respawn when you die that's not available to the entire universe, the fact that you can skill up where you want without the restrictions on a class, the fact that it's got one of the most developed and complex economies in any single MMORPG, the fact that it's a sandbox playstyle game where you largely have to find your own direction and goal etc all make up for the issues with the missions in a big big way :)

Re:ugh god (2, Informative)

tukkayoot (528280) | more than 5 years ago | (#24487229)

You're comparing apples to oranges. Pirate isn't really a player class in Eve.

Well, yeah. Since EVE doesn't have any player classes, the role you play is your occputation which is your "class" of sorts. In WoW, sometimes class feels like little more than window dressing, and people think more in terms of "tank, healer or DPS," with class distinctions only becoming really important in certain tactical situations.

As a pirate in EVE you choose to ruin other people's evenings by destroying their hard earned ships and taking their equipment. You can achieve the same thing in a WoW PVP, by going around and ganking noobs of the other faction while they try to finish quests.

Yes, you can grief in either game. The difference is, in WoW, the consequences of having your character killed are relatively minor. It's an annoyance. If the griefers are persistent, it can become a major frustration for that play session. Griefing in this event is something that doesn't really profit the griefers, it's just a person being an asshole.

In EVE, however, there can be real consequences to failure and misfortune. You can lose a large percentage of your character's net worth in a single incident. Likewise, as a pirate, you can make a big score by destroying or ransoming the right ship. I personally think that's pretty cool, but I can see how it doesn't appeal to everyone. "Pointless" griefing still happens, but most people would prefer to turn a profit. This means that in EVE, you always have to calculate the risk of undocking. You balance the advantages of flying an expensive ship (or carrying expensive cargo/modules) against the advantages of doing so, and if you figure you're vulnerable, you can take other precautions (scout your route ahead of time, fly a tougher or more evasive ship, arrange an escort, etc.) The high [potentially] high stakes are all a part of the game, and is a part of the relatively unique allure of EVE.

In WoW, you can also be a market profiteer, a crafter, a guild backstabber, and oooh even a fisherman (beat that EVE)!

All of this is true, but in EVE, the market/industrial aspect of the game is a bigger part of the overall picture, and has a more robust implementation in game mechanics.

You can't really talk up EVE's immersion too much because when you run the exact same mission 18 times you should begin to think: "Didn't I already destroy this NPC pirate stronghold?"

This is an issue for every MMO in existence. If it's not repetitive missions, it's repetitive raids and instances. As NightRain already pointed out, the "sandbox" and more player-driven, player vs. player style of play makes EVE's flaws in this regard somewhat easier to forgive.

Unique... (4, Interesting)

Last_Available_Usern (756093) | more than 5 years ago | (#24483411)

Eve is very unique in that there is only one universe. In Warcraft, if you develop a bad name, you can change servers, even change your name. If Eve, you have to make the best (or worst) of whatever lifestyle you choose to follow. As a Lawful Good resident, Eve quickly became a little terrifying since the only way I could expand my experience of the game was to move into less-friendly territory, something I was slightly reluctant to do with a Navy Raven with the best equipment. I suppose I (and others like me) could hop into a clone and take a cheap ship anywhere we wanted and experience that universe, but it just seemed too much like starting over. As more and more people grow into the position I was, we'll probably see an ever growing ratio of pirates to lawful citizens. At that point it will be very interesting to see what direction the game takes. It will probably be a Mad Max world at that point.

Re:Unique... (4, Insightful)

im_thatoneguy (819432) | more than 5 years ago | (#24483723)

Or you find yourself alone in a scary place and you team up. You start a militia and you maintain peace about yourself at the point of a well fueled missile barge.

If it's dangerous to wander out into the dangerous bits... form your own gang to survive. Soon your gang becomes a colony and then a fleet and then a nation... and suddently the dangerous bits are just home.

Re:Unique... (1)

Kenoli (934612) | more than 5 years ago | (#24484215)

Players can't really develop a bad name in WoW like they can in EVE, since they don't prey on each other for wealth and power. The worst someone could do is maybe suck at playing their class so people won't raid/arena with them.

Death system (5, Insightful)

Drakin020 (980931) | more than 5 years ago | (#24483483)

I think a lot of this has to do with the price of death.

When you die, you loose your ship and that can hurt a lot. This causes players to think more before they act. It offeres a bit of suspense when one gets into a battle. No other game has this, and if the death system was not the way it was then EVE would crumble.

If you die and get your ship back for free, what's the point?

Re:Death system (1)

ByOhTek (1181381) | more than 5 years ago | (#24483615)

not just your ship, but if you lose enough money, and cant afford a decent clone, you risk losing quite a bit of time/effort in training as well.

Re:Death system (1)

Greyfox (87712) | more than 5 years ago | (#24483901)

Ultima Online used to be like that. In a lot of ways EvE reminds me of Ultima Online, back before EA fucked it up. For the first few years nowhere was completely safe and even in the guard zones you could very easily lose items to pickpockets. Later they added no-PvP zones, item insurance and a WoW-like item grind. Oh, and new "mini-expansions" every month which added a few new items to the WoW-like mini-grind and cost $20 or so to buy on top of the subscription fee.

If EA ever tries to buy EvE we'd best hope the attempt gets fended off or the game will be turned into shit, just like everything else EA touches.

Re:Death system (1)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | more than 5 years ago | (#24485375)

Games EA was involved with recently which are good:
  • C&C 3
  • Crysis
  • Rock Band
  • Rock Band 2 (ok, I cheated a little bit, cause this isn't out yet)

You have an overly broad definition of "everything", methinks.

Re:Death system (3, Interesting)

Drakin020 (980931) | more than 5 years ago | (#24485529)

That's why I can't stand people who call for WoW like death systems....Hurray...you loose durability. Big deal right?

It brings no strategy or suspense to battles.

Re:Death system (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24483969)

No other game has this,

You haven't tried very many MMOGs have you. Ask any Everquest player how okay they are with dying. The impact of death in an MMO is always something to be carefully considered by the devs. Too harsh and you drive off players, too lenient and it makes the deaths meaningless.

Re:Death system (2, Insightful)

Cornflake917 (515940) | more than 5 years ago | (#24485077)

When you die, you loose your ship and that can hurt a lot. This causes players to think more before they act. It offeres a bit of suspense when one gets into a battle. No other game has this, and if the death system was not the way it was then EVE would crumble

Since the price of death is so high in EVE, you never really get to see too much PVP. And when battles do occur, it's usually very lopsided. If your fleet leader is halfway intelligent, he doesn't engage in battles that would destroy half his Corp's ships, but doesn't hesitate to attack when he has the clear advantage. Sometimes there are large battles that are fun, but those are usually lag fests. It's disappointing when a PVP oriented game has such boring and flawed PVP.

I personally don't see the appeal of spending hours and hours on obtaining something (virtual mind you) and then possibly loosing it. Especially when outside factors like lag (which EVE has issues with) can be the sole reason why you lose your ship. EVE is like Diablo2 with only the hardcore option. I graduated college and have a job now. My "hardcore" gaming phase is over.

Re:Death system (2, Insightful)

NightRain (144349) | more than 5 years ago | (#24486131)

Since the price of death is so high in EVE, you never really get to see too much PVP.

I don't know when you last played, but since the introduction of faction warfare, PvP is fairly easy to find, and you can get away with using small disposable ships if you want as well, because plenty of others are doing the same.

I dont see the point of putting this on slashdot (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24483553)

Stuff like this happens in any and all games. The difference is EVEs focus on PvP and the ensuing legalization of practically anything. There are very large portions of the universe where you can quite literally get away with what would be consider a crime, your only real protection will come from being in a large player gang, as there is simply no protection from NPCs. Even in so called "high sec", theres still a risk of getting blown up by an overpowering strike force before CONCORD (the space cops) can show up and defend you. Further more, any in game "corporation" (eve's guilds), can declare war upon another corporation, or groups of corporations that have banded together in an alliance, allowing them to be attacked anywhere, including the safest systems, as you've basically paid the cops to look the other way for a week. Several other mercenary corporations besides VETO exist as well. In fact I've hired a few of them to take out worthless targets simply because I can afford it and I got a good laugh from pissing the victims off.

Re:I dont see the point of putting this on slashdo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24483685)

"Nerd makes nerd frat online where he has some virtual power and virtual friends" seems like something that a lot of slashdotters would be interested in.

He's not a pirate! (4, Funny)

BertieBaggio (944287) | more than 5 years ago | (#24483715)

He's infringing copyri... oh, I see.

Very well, carry on.

Life as outlaw... (5, Funny)

r2rknot (1102517) | more than 5 years ago | (#24483755)

Buy cheap ship, gather in groups.

Wait/look for ship you can take down fast to wander by.

Destroy ship, maybe pod the pilot.

Repeat.

Encounter force larger/better then your own.

Return to Station, go afk and watch a movie while they spend hours 'camping' you. You have a good time, and make people spend tedious hours watching your avatar in station.

Obligatory (5, Funny)

Caboosian (1096069) | more than 5 years ago | (#24483933)

Re:Obligatory (1)

Cornflake917 (515940) | more than 5 years ago | (#24485865)

That graph would be funnier if the creator understood graphs (or at least labeled them correctly). Eve online is notorious for being harsh towards newbies. So if anything, the gaming skill would rise slowly over time. Unless, of course, the creator meant "gaming skill required" , then that line graph would make much more sense.

Claims to be a pirate? (2, Funny)

jollyreaper (513215) | more than 5 years ago | (#24483995)

Yah? Does he pay CCP each month? If so, he's a soddin' carebear. Real pirates steal their accounts as well as their l00t.

piracy and eve (2, Informative)

Digitus1337 (671442) | more than 5 years ago | (#24484061)

Most pirates in EVE, including VETO, are not generally regarded as very good players. They spend most of their time in systems with "low" security status rather than systems with "zero" security status. This amounts to the same as PVPing in the beginner zones of other MMOs, as the game prohibits fighting in "high" security systems. Low security systems still provides some automated defenses for a player that does not initiate combat, tends to have NPC stations (a place in which a player can dock up to hide or repair) and does not allow some of the more advanced ships to operate. These guys are roughly equal to mid-to-high-level horde players that hang out in Redridge.

Re:piracy and eve (1)

Sta7ic (819090) | more than 5 years ago | (#24484227)

'course, much like Burn Eden (who took a spin through the chunk of 0.0 I call home), usually ignore the "good" part and favor "effective" part. If you treat Eve like a war game, it's less an issue of how much "skill" or "class" you exhibit, as who leaves the field with most of their ships and most of the loot. Nobody is opposed to a turkey shoot if it puts meat on the table ... except the turkeys.

Re:piracy and eve (1)

atrus (73476) | more than 5 years ago | (#24486407)

I would call Burn Eden "good". They've managed to use the game mechanics at near 100% efficiency for killing people, and not getting killed in return.

But good does not equal not annoying :)

Re:piracy and eve (1)

Etrias (1121031) | more than 5 years ago | (#24486837)

Actually, low-sec has a fair amount of action. It's not 0.0, but there's a certain amount of risk. The real carebears are those who war-dec new corporation who operate in Empire and think they're hot stuff.

Re:piracy and eve (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24488033)

this is inaccurate, low security space is often more dangerous than the " 0.0 security " space which is ruled by player alliances, and mostly empty.

it's a different kind of pvp, you can' t call 0.0 a "progression" from low-sec.

This is a tad over the top... (1)

BobMcD (601576) | more than 5 years ago | (#24484167)

Criminal? Outlaw??

While most citizens in New Eden follow the rules society dictates, there are some free spirits who shun the status quo -- and the law -- and live on their own terms.

What law, exactly, are they shunning? It was my understanding that in EVE there really was no law. That the PvP was full-on and unrestricted.

Now, if I'm incorrect, and EVE has an FBI, Interpol, or the like, then this may be more worthwhile.

Otherwise, this may as well be a story about playing Horde in Alliance territory - just another player playing a game as it was intended.

BFD

Re:This is a tad over the top... (3, Informative)

TheGeniusIsOut (1282110) | more than 5 years ago | (#24484741)

CONCORD is the npc police force of EVE, and each empire has their own Navy, but they only patrol in 0.5 or higher (Empire) space. All pilots have a security status ranging from 10.0 to -10.0, which increases for destroying pirate npcs, and decreases from destroying player ships, and decreases even more if you "pod" them. If your security status is below -5.0, you are kill on sight by all police forces in Empire space. And CONCORD has near limitless resources with a fast response time. Then there is the addition of bounties that can be placed on pilots which, for some of the more notorious pirates, reach into the tens, or even hundreds, of billions of ISK, adding incentive for player bounty hunters to track them down and kill them.

Re:This is a tad over the top... (2, Informative)

TopSpin (753) | more than 5 years ago | (#24484847)

It was my understanding that in EVE there really was no law

Eve players have "Security Status". This number is used by the game to enforce certain rules; players with low Security Status cannot enter systems with high security rating, for instance. Players with very low Security Status are not avenged by NPC security forces when they are attacked. Low Security Status is also indicated visually to all players, and bounties may be placed on the head of a player below a certain Security Status. Security Status is altered by certain acts of aggression.

Keep in mind that an Eve player may obtain as low a Security Status as he wishes and still play the game just fine. It's a choice, with consequences. The life of a dedicated "pirate" quite distinct from the common Eve player, yet there is a large, healthy population of them.

That the PvP was full-on and unrestricted

That is overly simplistic. The majority of space in Eve, called 0.0 ("zero zero"), is unrestricted PvP, except for political implications among players, which are not trivial in themselves. The rest is "empire" space where graduated levels of Security are enforced. Exceptions in "empire" also exist in the form of "kill rights", war declarations, faction warfare, criminal status, etc.

Eve is half a decade old now. It is complex. Very few generalizations hold.

Re:This is a tad over the top... (3, Informative)

Charcharodon (611187) | more than 5 years ago | (#24486277)

PvP is full-on only in several situations.

Your corporation is at war with another corporation. You may then blast each other to bits any time any place.

You join a Faction (one of the 4 races). Then you may kill any member of an opposing faction any time any place. Not all factions hate each other.

Space is divied up in 0.0 to 1.0.

0.5-1.0 is patrolled by NPC's who will come and murder you if you attack another player. This takes time though. Suicide ganking is using throw away ships/pilots to kill a fat target before the authorities can kill you. Then you use a second alt comes in a picks up the loot from your targets wreckage.

0.1-0.4 Gate and station guns will attack you if you attack another player, but NPC ships will not respond to aggression, so pretty much its full-on anywhere not near a gate or station, but some ships are tough enough that can tank those guns so those areas are not safe either.

0.0 space. There is no law but what you make. Death comes swiftly here with big pointy teeth. This is the region where the big ships and big corps roam. Anyone may attack anyone else at anytime.

Lastly when you attack enough players your personal sec status drops. It goes down some when you attack another player, it goes down more if you blow up his ship, and it goes down alot if you murder him (blow up his escape pod). Once it's below -.5 you can be attacked by anyone, anywhere, anytime and the hi-sec space NPC's will be gunning for you as well..

There are other ways to be able to legally attack or kill other players. Stealing give you a 15 minute window to blow up the theif's ship. Murdering another player give that player 30 days to hunt your ass down and kill you.

Essentially no place is 100% safe, though most places are not 100% lethal either. There are ways of mitigating the risk, but even so the risk is always there.

This is what keeps Eve interesting.

Is it too late to start? (4, Interesting)

dave562 (969951) | more than 5 years ago | (#24484233)

Every time Eve comes up in discussion I think about checking it out. I get the sense that it is really geared toward people who have lots of time to play it and it isn't very friendly toward casual players. What do you guys think? Is there any point in playing it if I only have 5-10 hours a week to devote to it?

Re:Is it too late to start? (1)

slashgrim (1247284) | more than 5 years ago | (#24484449)

They have a two-week trial. I tried out but I don't know anyone else that plays it. IMHO, it's really a social game. I like the concept but playing by myself was too much mining (aka grinding) to make a profit. I'll probably try it out again later.

Re:Is it too late to start? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24484529)

Every time Eve comes up in discussion I think about checking it out. I get the sense that it is really geared toward people who have lots of time to play it and it isn't very friendly toward casual players. What do you guys think? Is there any point in playing it if I only have 5-10 hours a week to devote to it?

If you only have 5-10 hours you are going to miss a good deal of what eve has to offer.

Also, the game is insanely hard on newer players.

Re:Is it too late to start? (1)

AdamWeeden (678591) | more than 5 years ago | (#24484599)

I would say it's not likely for you. I have a similar time profile to you and I gave Eve a try. Definitely was not my thing.

Re:Is it too late to start? (1)

TheGeniusIsOut (1282110) | more than 5 years ago | (#24484907)

The beautiful thing about the EVE skill system is that you continue to train skills while not in game. Since all skill training is in real time, there is no possibility of power leveling, and even being given loads of money and equipment is useless if you don't have the skills to use them. That being said, with minimal skills and enough monetary support, you can buy the much more expensive "named" equipment to compete with the much less expensive T2 gear, which requires more skill levels to utilize. The player base is growing all the time, and they have made major improvements to the new player tutorials. When I first started about 4 years ago, the initial tutorial covered the basics of space flight and that was about it. Even a couple hours a night to play can easily earn you enough money to buy skill books to train up while you are at work/school/wherever, and if you get on the recruitment channels you can usually find a representative of a corporation that caters to new players and give them training to succeed, and a suportive environment. Many even have ship replacement programs available.

Re:Is it too late to start? (2, Insightful)

sammyF70 (1154563) | more than 5 years ago | (#24486163)

The beautifull thing about EVE is that playing doesn't involve actually *PLAYING*. you pay CCP for the right to level while offline.
If you feel the urge to actually go online, you should have some good mining bots. This way, you'll be able to watch a movie on your tv-set in the living room, instead of having to check whether it's time to hit the "return to base to unload button"
Once you've spent enough time not playing, you'll be able to join corporation-wide battles, which involves incredibly high-tech weapons which can kill your opponents half a light year away. Of course, that means you won't actually ever see exciting battles. You'll only survive/be able to stay in your corp, of course, if you do exactly what your commanding officer says. Soloing is *NOT* an option

So, join EVE! It's like real life, you'll work for others while doing highly repetitive tasks,but at least you don't have to log on much!

Re:Is it too late to start? (1)

shannara256 (262093) | more than 5 years ago | (#24487389)

If you feel the urge to actually go online, you should have some good mining bots. This way, you'll be able to watch a movie on your tv-set in the living room, instead of having to check whether it's time to hit the "return to base to unload button"

Um, no. This is a good way to be banned, and then you can not play forever.

Once you've spent enough time not playing, you'll be able to join corporation-wide battles, which involves incredibly high-tech weapons which can kill your opponents half a light year away. Of course, that means you won't actually ever see exciting battles.

Also no. First off, very rarely can you not see a battle you're participating in (excepting after you get killed, obviously). Secondly, there are a whole range of options, including a lot of small-group stuff and the new factional warfare, which you can get into with a brand-new character. Finally, to be a bit pedantic, most battles take place in a volume maybe 150km across - a far cry from half a light-year.

You'll only survive/be able to stay in your corp, of course, if you do exactly what your commanding officer says.

No, no, no. Of course some corporations are like that, but equally of course - and this is the part you seem to have missed - some are not. As to following the advice of more experienced players, that would generally help you survive, but if your corporation is requiring absolute obedience, and you don't want that, find a different corp.

Soloing is *NOT* an option

So much no. EVE is a MMORPG, so of course you have more options when you play with other people, but there's plenty of PvE stuff that you can do by yourself - off the top of my head, missions, exploration, and trading. Arguably carebear stuff, but if you don't want to play with other people who cares what they think?

Re:Is it too late to start? (2, Insightful)

Paranatural (661514) | more than 5 years ago | (#24485055)

The biggest problem with EVE is that you have to be really committed to it. You can't just sit down and play by yourself a few hours. There's no picking up a PUG and doing something.

They have guilds they call 'Corps' that are generally very big, and they 'own' a certain section of space. If you join that Corp you are usually fairly safe in that area unless another corp comes in to attack. But the thing is, you can't go at anything alone. Or if you do, you'd better be able to run away fast.

The best way to imagine it is almost like being in a RL army. You can't just hop in your jeep, drive to Germany, and have a fight. It'd be you Vs. dozens, or hundreds of them. You have to basically travel in a pack with your guild because alone, you die.

Re:Is it too late to start? (1)

dave562 (969951) | more than 5 years ago | (#24485399)

Thanks for the description of how things are. That has been my sense of things. I guess that I'm stuck with WoW. Not that I don't enjoy playing it, but it would be nice to have some alternatives and the Eve environment does seem pretty attractive.

Re:Is it too late to start? (2, Interesting)

TheGeniusIsOut (1282110) | more than 5 years ago | (#24486011)

It is not quite so vicious as others have stated, if you stay in empire space, but the real PvP occurs out in 0.0. To get the hang of the game, you can easily go it solo in empire space running missions for various factions, which can earn you a decent amount of ISK, as well as faction standings that give you discounts on manufacturing/research facilities, and loyalty points which can be spent in special faction stores to get faction specific and higher end items at a reduced monetary cost. My first year was spent mostly running solo missions, building up standings, money, and skills, while extending diplomatic ties to various groups, and gaining insight from some friendly, and some unfriendly, veterans. But like most things of value, you get out of it what you put in. If you only give it a couple of weeks where you spend most of your time complaining about how steep the learning curve is (which is one of the major reasons the average player age is over 20 years old, and not 12-13 like some others)you will not have an enjoyable experience, but if you approach the game with the preconception that there is great diversity in what you can do, and seek out those who can give you advice, you will likely find you enjoy the game, and possibly find yourself a group of like minded individuals to group up with. Many corps even have starting builds they reccomend to new players that want to begin in a particular role, and since you aren't locked into any particular class, you can expand into other areas as you learn and grow. One thing I have heard from dissatisfied players is that they want to know how to "beat" the game, or get to the end game content like there is in other, hack and slash style, MMOs. There is no "end game" to EVE, as it is a dynamic virtual world, with shifting political landscapes, and new expansions adding features, skills, ships, and more on a fairly regular basis, and best of all, they have never charged for an expansion. You pay $20 for the client initially, and can download it from the site at any time, and the base clent download gets updated with the latest patches, so you don't have to spend hours downloading, installing, and then downloading years of patches. I would recommend you give the trial a go, and if you have a Steam account, you can get a 21 day trial. Just be sure to seek out those with more experience, try the recruitment channels, and expect to lose some ships. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, and you just might find yourself a new addiction.

Re:Is it too late to start? (1)

CaptKeen (92992) | more than 5 years ago | (#24486069)

Thanks for the description of how things are. That has been my sense of things. I guess that I'm stuck with WoW. Not that I don't enjoy playing it, but it would be nice to have some alternatives and the Eve environment does seem pretty attractive.

It's not as bad as all that. No-one says you have to jump into 0.0 on day one, and if you did, things might not look as great.

I've been playing EVE for something like 10 months now, and for 6 of those months, work was really demanding and I didn't get much play time at all... (maybe 15 minutes a week). You're not going to earn tons of ISK that way (or any), but you can still learn your skills.

EVE differs from WoW in that you don't have to be in-game to progress. No levels, no XP grinding. To be able to use your equipment better, you need to skill up - and skills train in real time.

Now, granted, if you aren't in a corp, you're not going to easily find people to play with, but with some basic skills and attention to detail, you can run solo missions just fine. Your tutorial agent should be able to hand you off to a beginner agent, and with the ISK you earn from those missions (mission rewards, time bonuses, bounties, and loot) you should be able to get a decent frigate for your race, and fit it properly. With a properly equipped combat frigate - tech1 equipment or cheap named, not even tech2 - you should be able to complete the majority of level 1 missions. With the ISK from that, you can buy the skills and ships to move up a half step to destroyers, which should let you stomp any level 1 and a good chunk of level 2s, or into cruisers which should allow you to complete the majority of level 2s. By that point, you'll be more familiar with the game and ready to take a look at one of the thousands of different corps available in game.

And while everyone mentions mining as a way to make money, there's more options than that. You can run missions, do trade runs, produce goods, all sorts of things.

Anyways, take a look at Hammer's EVE [blogspot.com] , a kind of guide for EVE for current WoW players.

Fly safe!

Re:Is it too late to start? (1)

dave562 (969951) | more than 5 years ago | (#24486205)

Thanks for the reply. I'm okay with not being the best of the best. I just want a game that I can get into and play for a while to kill some time. It seems like Eve might offer that. I'm going to grab the trial and check it out.

Re:Is it too late to start? (1)

TheGeniusIsOut (1282110) | more than 5 years ago | (#24486517)

Good luck, keep you head up, and try not to be overwhelmed by the options available to you. And remember, right-click is you friend, almost everything clickable has a context menu. EFT (EVE Fitting Tool) and EVEMon are two tools that will help you plan things out before spending any ISK on them.

Re:City of Heroes (1)

Phrogman (80473) | more than 5 years ago | (#24486279)

If you find you don't have a lot of time to play during a typical week, why not consider a more casual friendly MMO? City of Heroes/City of Villains is very casual friendly in the sense that you can login, play for an hour or so and know you accomplished something towards leveling your character. You can easily find a PUG on most servers, although the quality of players varies considerably and finding a good guild - Supergroup in COH parlance - is a good idea if you find you like the game.

The combat system is first rate, the grouped combat is awesome, almost any character type (Archetype or AT in COH parlance) is capable of soloing - although more support oriented classes are slower at it of course, and the game can be quite addicting once you get used to it. There are still tons of low level characters being leveled up that you can group with (the game is very prone to Altitis and many people are constantly making new characters). You can have a lot of characters per server so you can try out many of the ATs to see what suits you etc.

Its not a big PvP game, although PvP is available in special zones, but you are also never forced to PvP. Gameplay consists mainly of getting and completing missions (usually takes about 10-20 mins to complete a typical mission) and Task Forces (takes much longer as they are a series of missions for a group and you can't take regular missions until you complete the TF or quit it).

It has collision detection - unlike the majority of MMOs - and this is a major attraction for me an my friends. You can actually physically block a door with your character and contain the mobs etc, they can't just run through you, and you can't run through your teammates. The combat system is well designed, and each character has a definite role in most groups, although it can vary depending on your spec).

Its not for everyone, but its a great game, one of the best designed MMOs out there IMHO, and after years its still going strong and they are still adding (free) content to the game on a regular basis. It takes very little time to figure out how things work but there is enough depth that it takes a while to master a particular set of powers.

http://www.cityofheroes.com/ [cityofheroes.com] if you want more information.

Re:Is it too late to start? (1)

Paranatural (661514) | more than 5 years ago | (#24486857)

It's a very pretty game. At first I was really into it; I liked that skills kept training while you were logged off, and I liked the first few missions where you go mine stuff and fight off some NPCs and stuff. But then, I talked to a friend who'd been playing a year and watched him play some. You basically start off in a protected newbie area where you can just do your own thing and have some fun, but once you get out it's a no man's land of sharks, and the only way to survive is by joining a gang and staying close by them. It just doesn't seem all that fun.

Re:Is it too late to start? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24485701)

Every time Eve comes up in discussion I think about checking it out. I get the sense that it is really geared toward people who have lots of time to play it and it isn't very friendly toward casual players. What do you guys think? Is there any point in playing it if I only have 5-10 hours a week to devote to it?

Not so much play time per week, but how long your account has been active.

On one hand it's nice that you don't have to play 40+ hours a week to see benefits, but it'll take you a few years to catch up in skill points compared to the average player.

Re:Is it too late to start? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24486043)

You learn skills outside the game. ISK is not hard to make, regardless of what some people say. If you can plan ahead and take the time to figure out the game you'll be fine as a casual player.

Better than any other MMO as a casual player anyways.

Re:Is it too late to start? (1)

Apache (14188) | more than 5 years ago | (#24486233)

The NPC mission system is fairly casual and widely available, just not what some would consider "end game" (which is ok if you only play casually - it will take a year to outgrow the npc missions).

I know a few ways to play eve in only a few hours a day that involve market manipulation or manufacturing. It's rather complicated and not available right off the bat to most players.

Eve is a game that has fun in it, but the fun does not present its self as a bright yellow "!". It takes some discerning - but some people consider discerning fun :)

Re:Is it too late to start? (2, Insightful)

NightRain (144349) | more than 5 years ago | (#24486337)

I'm a casual player myself. I put in maybe and hour 3 or 4 nights a week, and then whatever time I can get on the weekends. I get by just fine. Unlike most games, Eve lets you train your skills when you're not logged in, so being a casual player is less of a problem than in many other games. That being said, being a casual player in an NPC corp can be very hard (read as boring). Pick up groups are hard to find in EVE, so you end up doing a large amount of stuff by yourself, and often without much assistance. If you've got friends who play the game or can join a corp that has similar interests to you (and there are those out there who will take new players) the game changes hugely. The social aspect, the fact that you now have goals and things to achieve for a reason other than simply making money etc make the game what it is.

Re:Is it too late to start? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24486745)

As strange as it might sound, with the way training new skills is setup you don't have to devote nearly as much time playing EVE to experience new things/exploring new aspects of the game than with any other MMO I've ever played. It is a game where you can spend lots of time if you want or spend just a few hours putzing around having fun every now and then. That is what is so incredible about it. I always have something new to try or do and it won't suck up a bunch of my time to do it.

I saw the previous comment about it taking years to train up for huge ships, the part that person failed to get is that you don't use those ships alone. It takes an alliance of hundreds of real people to even build a titan or mothership (the largest ships in the game) and they exist for fleet battles where you have literally hundreds of real people fighting on each side. A really incredible experience by the way. With the way EVE is setup though what you have the skills to fly and what you have the isk to afford tend to coincide nicely. It gives you a continually changing and new experience. Something I think the dev's did RIGHT.

Re:Is it too late to start? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24487341)

I only play 5 - 10 hours a week, and I have for years.

Fly solo while you figure out the interface and decide what kinds of roles interest you (trader/mission runner/PvPer/etc). Then, find a FUN corp with friendly people who are more interested in having a good time than in being 'the best'.

Re:Is it too late to start? (1)

Nicodemus (19510) | more than 5 years ago | (#24487689)

Well, one nice thing about Eve that helps casual gamers is that you are constantly leveling, wether or not you're logged. In a lot of ways, imo, that actually ecourages people to not play and instead live their lives while they train up skills. So after a year, you will be at the same skill point level as someone who plays 40+ hours a week. You won't have nearly as much money or ships, etc as them, though. So yeah, you can play just 5-10 hours a week and still have fun, and still progress at the same rate as everyone else. I've actually done that before... just set up EveMon so it tells me when my skills are done training, and only log in to start the next skill training. Then when I got to the point I wanted to be at, I started playing more to be able to afford the new class of ship or weapon I trained up and had fun. Just know that Eve is very much a blank slate type of game. It's all what you make it. If you want quests and level progress and what not, go play wow. If you want some of the best PVP available, go Eve. Just know that it's going to take you months to years to really get into it and understand it. It's got an extreme learning curve.

-Nicodemus

Re:Is it too late to start? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24487693)

Absolutely Not. Eve is VERY much a "Play whenever you want" type of game. You dont have to sit for hours grinding, killing rats, bears, spiders, goblins and crap just to advance. The only time limiting factor is ISK (in game money), which can be made VERY fast if you know anything about commodity markets. (Even then, you dont need to know much to make isk) Game advancement is Equal for all players (well aside from the variances in Implants/Stat points, but that doesnt make a huge difference)

5-10 hours a week may not be much, you won't be flying titans, but you'll have fun, and thats what its about right? You may not be the richest player out there, but if you and Bob started at the same time, you'd be about equal in strength.

(6 year Eve player here, and currently on month 4 of a break, Haven't stopped advancing the whole time, mmmm Phoenix when I get back)

Competition (2, Interesting)

ZeroConcept (196261) | more than 5 years ago | (#24485395)

If anyone is interested about the psychological aspects of competion-based games, I suggest to grab a copy of No Contest By Alfie Kohn:

Google Preview [google.com]

Makes a interesting case about the underlying stimulus for competition-type personalities. I often found interesting that PvP servers and games attract a specific type of personality, that book makes me feel better about myself in comparison to them (for the humor-impaired that was a joke related to the book).

Where is my Privateer online EA?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24485469)

All EvE does is make me sad that EA got its claws into Origins. :(

Rick Roll (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24486155)

Be warned. Eve is like being Rick Rolled. At first it seems great. MMO. Space. But then when you get there you find out it is horrible and people just played a horrible trick on you.

Do you really want to be Rick Rolled? I don't think so. Friends don't let friends play Eve.
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