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Windows XP Still Outselling Windows Vista

timothy posted more than 6 years ago | from the in-this-house-they're-tied-at-zero dept.

Windows 498

nandemoari writes with an excerpt from an InfoPackets article that says "While Microsoft excitedly tries to sway public opinion by touting that Windows Vista License sales top 180 Million units, Hewlett-Packard (HP) was busy smacking Microsoft down — reportedly shipping PCs with a Vista Business license but with Windows XP pre-loaded in the majority of business computers sold since the June 30 Windows XP execution date established by Microsoft — casting a lot of doubt over how many copies of Vista have actually been sold."

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Wow (4, Insightful)

clang_jangle (975789) | more than 6 years ago | (#24515609)

From TFA:

HP isn't the only one bursting Microsoft's bubble. Microsoft Watch recently reported on the dismal pronouncement on the state of Vista adoption among top businesses. The really bad news for Microsoft is the number of business PCs running Windows XP increased from 2007 to 2008 -- three times the increase in the percentage of PCs running Windows Vista...In a survey reportedly conducted by a systems management appliance company, 60 percent of those surveyed have no plans to deploy Windows Vista and 42 percent are actually exploring Vista alternatives. 11 percent have already made the switch to Mac OS X or Linux.

Wow. Although quoting the statistics from "a survey reportedly conducted by a systems management appliance company" is mighty vague, I'll bet it's not far off. Add to that the rise of the netbook, and it's just looking better and better for Linux.

Re:Wow (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24515695)

this is true. they may just hit 3% market share in the uk before the end of the decade. woohoo!

Re:Wow (5, Funny)

Futile Rhetoric (1105323) | more than 6 years ago | (#24515781)

Do you mean Linux, or Vista?

Re:Wow (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24515867)

I can feel it, 2009 will be the Year of the Vista Desktop.

Re:Wow (5, Funny)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516007)

Yah, because with any luck Windows 7 will be released... Unfortunately, it will probably suck worse than Vista, thus driving up Vista adoption

Re:Wow (1)

endtwist (862499) | more than 6 years ago | (#24515877)

Do you mean Linux, or Vista?

Combined?

Re:Wow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24516529)

GNucrosoft/Vlinstux

Re:Wow (2, Funny)

molotovjester (1273662) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516255)

Why would Linux be the only alternative?

Keeping XP on the old machines, reusing licenses, using ubuntu, and a plethora of other options exist.

Your assumption that linux is the only alternative reveals a bias.

Fanboy much?

Re:Wow (5, Insightful)

computer_guy57 (998179) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516355)

I'm confused--how is using ubuntu an alternative to using Linux?

Re:Wow (4, Funny)

rbane3 (1284976) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516547)

16 UID Ahead of me, submitted = 1m before me... I think I've found my nemesis!

Re:Wow (1)

rbane3 (1284976) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516371)

If I am to understand you correctly, you are referring to Ubuntu as an alternative to Linux?

Re:Wow (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24515787)

How exactly is having more business Linux users "better for Linux"?

Re:Wow (3, Insightful)

mweather (1089505) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516021)

Businesses hire developers.

Re:Wow (4, Insightful)

Vectronic (1221470) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516127)

How is it not? It may not be exponentially great, but it certainly isn't bad.

Those "Business Users" decide to use it for their home use, you start seeing more and more computers coming with it, more Linux boxes on store shelves, headlines about " X Company Switched To X Linux" then comes "hey, I should check that out too"

With "Business Users" generally creates a little more pressure on the dev's to fix/update/perfect the distro they are working on, and those that develop software packages, are more prone to add support to "Linux X".

However, although a lot of the time it creates more demand for interoperability (which I consider a good thing), it's also possible that it will narrow the Linux Field down to a Linux Patch Of Grass, ie: make the "popular" distro's a bit fewer/merged, but that isn't going to stop anyone from making new distro's, and will have very little effect on those that know the ins & outs of Linux.

Re:Wow (3, Informative)

kesuki (321456) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516141)

business users like control, order and stability. the more business users evaluating linux, the more likely bugs will be discovered and patched, that give linux better features, furthermore, closed source development will evolve, and prosper, IBM already has worked many hours bringing lotus technology to linux, if it thrives and prospers, other closed source developments will follow, vendors will 'lock' into linux platforms based on the solutions available, and some of those solutions will be open source software.

as more business users get used to enterprise class linux solutions, more of them will turn to 'linux' at home as desktop users, some of those users will be talented high paid programmers, with pet needs, and will donate time and energy to free open source software, thus giving a direct payback to linux.

you might as well have asked, why did people use DOS when there was unix developing, or instead of CP/M. they used it because business used it. if business doesn't come back to windows tech, microsoft has lost control of the most important root to have control over. just as ISS never over took apache, microsoft will be in free fall if wide spread linux in the business is adopted.

Re:Wow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24515955)

Of course they are selling more XP. Company's are not adopting Vista. It is becoming more a consumer OS.

Re:Wow (4, Informative)

Sockatume (732728) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516179)

I'm not sure that avoidance of Vista translates into good news for Linux. If you have a volume licence to install XP on your whole site, then regardless of what hardware you purchase in the interim, the deadline for switching is 2014 when Extended Support stops. They can sit on XP for that long, I'm sure, by which point the "Vista alternative" being explored will be Windows 7. If you're buying an OS licence tomorow, then getting something other than Vista is a priority, but I wonder how much of MS' business revenue that accounts for.

More statistics (5, Informative)

Lonewolf666 (259450) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516509)

From the latest Valve survey (Windows only):

Windows XP ------------- 80.77 %
Windows Vista --------- 15.08 %
Windows Vista 64 bit - 2.68 %
Windows 2003 64 bit - 0.70 %
Windows 2000 ---------- 0.61 %
Other -------------------- 0.15 %

So even in Windows Gamer Country, Vista has reached only 15% market share...

Microsoft sucks cock (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24515621)

They can't even compete with themselves and do it right. Mod me down but you know you agree, Microsoft sucks cock.

Stop paying MS for bad software... (5, Informative)

xzvf (924443) | more than 6 years ago | (#24515651)

OK, I'm a zealot, but if you mostly use a computer to browse the web and get email and write an occasional document buy a Linux computer.

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (4, Insightful)

joshtheitguy (1205998) | more than 6 years ago | (#24515729)

I agree with you completely. If I were not a gamer I would not have Windows installed on my computer at home.

There is absolutely no reason to run any variety of Windows as a web browser or email checker as far as I'm concerned. Most distributions of Linux are easy enough for anyone to use.

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (0, Offtopic)

Naturalis Philosopho (1160697) | more than 6 years ago | (#24515747)

You've never met my sister, have you?

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24515799)

You've never met my sister, have you?

Who hasn't? You're mom isn't too bad either but your sister is definitely better.

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24515987)

Hi there, welcome to Slashdot. Aside from keeping up with twitter sockpuppets, the one thing you need to remember about posting here is that you never, ever mention your sister or your mom. Certainly not in such an exploitable way.

Following these guidelines will result in many years of continued geeky fulfillment. Thank you, and enjoy your stay.

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (0, Troll)

A beautiful mind (821714) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516105)

Your sister is easy too?

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (1)

MarkvW (1037596) | more than 6 years ago | (#24515909)

I feel the same way, only different. If I could get the Adobe CS suite running on Linux, I'd be gone from Windows in a heartbeat.

As far as games goes, I'd be willing to suffer a little. DirectX was very smart of Microsoft. Does LINUX afford something equally good?

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (1)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516047)

OpenGL is as good as DirectX, the downside is, it is hard to get native Linux games, but a lot of them run in WINE.

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (2, Informative)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516309)

DirectX is a little more than just graphics.

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (1)

mweather (1089505) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516067)

So what's your trouble? The guide at Wine's AppDB doesn't work for you?

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (1, Flamebait)

lgw (121541) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516319)

Yes, your fellow linux users will welcome you to RTFM NOOB! This is why it will never be the year of linux on the desktop.

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (1)

HeronBlademaster (1079477) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516011)

I find the lack of a good, intuitive Subversion GUI a major roadblock to me booting into Gentoo instead of Windows. Call me crazy if you want, but TortoiseSVN is so much easier to use than anything I've tried in Linux that I boot into Windows just for that.

Anyone have any alternatives? I'd really like one integrated into Gnome (or KDE, I'd switch for this) the way TortoiseSVN integrates with Windows Explorer, but failing that I'd like one more user-friendly than RapidSVN...

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (4, Informative)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516077)

Like KDESvn [alwins-world.de] ?

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (3, Informative)

Just Some Guy (3352) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516175)

If I were not a gamer I would not have Windows installed on my computer at home.

Correction: if you were not a PC gamer. I'm a gamer with a PS2, Wii, and DS; I don't own a Windows PC and don't miss it.

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24516239)

You've never worked in an office either I guess. An office that isn't full of computer professionals. Most people would rather pay to use MS Office over OpenOffice, you think they want to learn Linux? You're dreaming.

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (1)

loonycyborg (1262242) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516403)

I bet they don't want to learn Windows either..

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (2, Insightful)

xzvf (924443) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516573)

No worse than learning Vista, or the new version of Office, etc.. I've deployed a number of Linux desktops for a number of large companies. The workers have to be trained on anything they get. The advantages of a centrally managed Linux environment with locked down browser and OO is far more useful than a full blown XP desktop. Fewer techs required to support, can use older or less powerful hardware plus it's harder for users to screw up the system permanently (nothing a kickstart rebuild can't fix).

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24516289)

What really makes me mad about this whole scenario is the almost absent support of DX10 in windows XP. I keep waiting, but it seems that I'll have to get vista when I step into 2009 with a new gaming PC.

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (1)

dashesy (1294654) | more than 6 years ago | (#24515751)

I may keep an XP on dual boot for extremely OS dependent applications, but no way I keep Vista garbage.

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (2, Interesting)

Joe U (443617) | more than 6 years ago | (#24515833)

OK, I'm a zealot, but if you mostly use a computer to browse the web and get email and write an occasional document buy a Linux computer.

Why not just buy a WebTV then? At least if you're running Windows you can go to circuit city or best buy and get some software for it.

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516029)

Or you can just get what you need for free on a linux box.

The software bought boxed in those stores is always garbage.

For the average user the distribution will have everything they need.

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (1)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516111)

Yes, but I can just type in

sudo synaptic

And have the same results, only I don't need to spend any money. Most of the software sold in boxes are a load of crap. With the exception of games, but if you are a gamer, you will be running Windows for a long time.

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516155)

Try crossover or wine.

I play lots of windows games that way. HL2 and all its derivatives work great.

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (1)

mweather (1089505) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516137)

So driving someplace and paying for software is a better than downloading free software?

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (2, Insightful)

Joe U (443617) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516399)

So driving someplace and paying for software is a better than downloading free software?

For my dad? Fuck yes. I'm not tech support.

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24515949)

If that is all you're doing, wouldn't Vista work just as well? Sure there are tons of reasons not to use it, but your argument can easily be reversed.

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (1)

mweather (1089505) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516349)

Yes, so would Blue Gene.

Re:Stop paying MS for bad software... (1)

xzvf (924443) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516627)

Duh, you are paying for Vista... Despite what they say, the OS that comes with your new PC isn't free.

Numbers are accurate (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24515675)

if they still vista business + xp license together they're still selling a copy of vista

Re:Numbers are accurate (4, Funny)

clang_jangle (975789) | more than 6 years ago | (#24515713)

Oh Balmer, give it up already...

Re:Numbers are accurate (-1, Troll)

sir fer (1232128) | more than 6 years ago | (#24515811)

if they still vista business + xp license together they're still selling a copy of vista

I see English is your second language.

Re:Numbers are accurate (5, Funny)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 6 years ago | (#24515827)

You're not doing it right! Look, you're not supposed to post anonymously. People will think you're a troll! No, you're supposed create an account, say some good stuff about Apple, get modded up, get good karma and THEN post our stuff! You're fired! *throws chair*

Astroturfers! Astroturfers Astroturfers!

Thanks,
Steve B

Re:Numbers are accurate (4, Insightful)

Zymergy (803632) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516113)

Who modded this insightful?
I suppose you believed Bill Clinton when he said he did not inhale (right) and that other time when it all depended on what the meaning of is *IS*...

I needed a copy of Windows XP for my Dell, but in compliance with Ebay's policy, software could only be sold with hardware.
So, I ordered a metal blank case slot cover that said Dell on it, and what do you know? It came with a free copy of Windows XP Professional SP2 for Dell OEM PC's...
Does this mean that metal case bracket sales are up? NO decidedly not.

Even if Microsoft shipped a glazed canned ham and a 6-Pack of Bawlz with a downgrade disk copy of WinXP, they still sold a copy of XP (and some other crap people did not really want). This would not entitle the canned ham department over at Microsoft to claim superior sales versus XP at this point...
-Nobody pays the premium OEM charge for their "downgrade to XP rights and media disk" unless they intend on NOT using Vista and only using XP...

Re:Numbers are accurate (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24516577)

Even if Microsoft shipped a glazed canned ham and a 6-Pack of Bawlz ... people did not really want).

So... if you're not going to eat the ham, can I have it?

Does this even matter?... (5, Insightful)

Miladinoski (1280850) | more than 6 years ago | (#24515677)

'cause Microsoft still gets the $$$, no matter what OS sells more...

Re:Does this even matter?... (0, Flamebait)

The End Of Days (1243248) | more than 6 years ago | (#24515757)

Of course it matters, because this is an opportunity to jerk off all over Microsoft. Don't you know that the only way the world ever changes is when a bunch of zealots get together on the Internet to masturbate together?

Re:Does this even matter?... (5, Interesting)

captainstormy (1107081) | more than 6 years ago | (#24515771)

It matters because MS spent alot of time and money developing Vista. If customers continue to demand XP and refuse to upgrade to Vista then that time and money was a waste.

While I'm certainly no MS fan I gotta admit that its sort of a compliment that people like XP so much they refuse to upgrade to Vista. Granted some of that is because of possible problems with Vista, but alot of it is that many people do not see the need to upgrade XP.

Re:Does this even matter?... (3, Informative)

im_thatoneguy (819432) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516229)

Yes but two things:

1) XP was dramatically improved by code ported from Vista development (SP2, Windows Search, Windows Media Center, etc etc...)
2) Businessess are ALWAYS slow to upgrade. I have friends who work at fortune 500 companies who were JUST allowed to install Windows XP from Windows 2000.

If Microsoft hadn't backported a lot of their code for the good of XP users then Vista would have been a tremendously greater shift than it has been. Microsoft could have just said "too bad upgrade" but instead they actually minimized the reasons for people to upgrade in order to keep existing customers happy.

Windows XP isn't the Windows XP that shipped originally... it's a quasi-Vista.

Re:Does this even matter?... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24516275)

I just bought 4 Dells with XP loaded & Vista discs. Our main app is a stinking pile, and they're only barely supporting Vista at this point. I think it's crappy apps, more than Vista's merits or lack thereof, that are holding back adoption. Once I'm comfortable that my app won't screw up I'll switch, and I'm glad that Vista is forcing some better practices on developers.

Re:Does this even matter?... (4, Insightful)

fm6 (162816) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516365)

I'm certainly no MS fan I gotta admit that its sort of a compliment that people like XP so much they refuse to upgrade to Vista.

That's like saying having a dog that pees on your rug isn't that bad because at least he doesn't eat your children.

People bought XP for years because they had no alternative they can live with. And that's still true. It's just that the alternatives they can't live with have gotten a little more diverse.

Re:Does this even matter?... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24516475)

No, a lot of it, a BIG lot of it, is that Vista is different from XP.

I.e. it is exactly the same crap you have to fight when trying to get people to switch from XP to Linux, or MacOS, or something else that is not XP.

Re:Does this even matter?... (1)

_Sprocket_ (42527) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516433)

That's today's sales. This "story" (such as it is) is just as much about tomorrow's sales as well. And in an even bigger scheme of things, it's about tomorrow's technology.

Future sales are much easier to achieve, and predict, if you control the future. You control the future by being the one to deliver it. You do that by laying the foundation of that tech today and getting everyone to follow along.

Incremental changes today lead to overall change tomorrow. And that means your predictions today is tomorrow's reality. Take that, pundits!

That's why marketshare and, ultimately, mindshare is so important in the IT industry - and especially to Microsoft. The industry is rough. It is littered by the corpses of companies and tech that didn't make it despite whatever advantages it had (real or imagined) at the time. Throw in distruptive technologies and a few hardball business tactics and you end up with a very volatile business offering considerable challenge to succeed in. But it helps if you have an inside track on where the industry is going and a reasonable assurance it's going where you predict it will. That is the key to Microsoft's business.

It is clearly Microsoft's intent for the industry to move to Vista. However, this is a rare time when momentum and marketing is faltering for Microsoft. That could have rather startling repercussions not just for Microsoft but also for businesses that have sought shelter under Microsoft's product lines. It could also mean significant change for just about everyone in the IT industry.

That's what makes this whole thing so interesting. It's not about today. It's about tomorrow... and who can tell what that will bring?

Obvious Explanation (1)

Oh no, it's Dixie (1332795) | more than 6 years ago | (#24515699)

The majority of business software is compatible with Windows XP.

Re:Obvious Explanation (1)

Greenmoon (656273) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516339)

That is true, but less and less exclusively every day. The truth is, the majority of real business software (apart from standard "Office tools" like Doc editors, spreadsheets, etc; which are very cross-platform these days) are web-enabled to some degree, and many others are only available to typical users via other types of thin client (i.e. Citrix).
I took over running the IT dept for a small (~300 employees) company and there was really no reason why everyone had Windows on their desktop. Nothing specifically tied to job function (including a multi-module ERP system, reporting tools, etc) required Windows or couldn't have been run on some Linux variant. They just "always had it that way".
I think if people could get over the change issue, you could easily see a huge percentage of converts to Linux in the workplace.

Reminds me of my high school (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24515761)

But at least they have better reasons. (Why would you buy PCs with Win 2K Pro licenses for every classroom and computer lab in a school and then downgrade them all to 98? Because "Linux servers don't support Win2K"!)

To quote.. (4, Funny)

nawcom (941663) | more than 6 years ago | (#24515763)

Beavis from an old Beavis & Butthead episode commenting on an artist of a music video, Microsoft "Probably went to a doctor to see what's wrong and the doctor said, "You suck"."

Yep. Vista just sucks.

Perhaps the more accurate (1)

JohnnyGTO (102952) | more than 6 years ago | (#24515803)

measure is how many copies are being used.

Re:Perhaps the more accurate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24516379)


measure is how many copies are being used.

Microsoft knows well enough by seeing what OSs are doing updates against their servers (not including places with WSUS boxes)

THOSE are the numbers they dread revealing.

MrBoston (2, Interesting)

MrBoston (1340555) | more than 6 years ago | (#24515839)

Kudos to HP for still shipping machines with XP pre-installed; Dell requires the purchase of a $150 license with "downgrade" rights.

Re:MrBoston (4, Informative)

Taelron (1046946) | more than 6 years ago | (#24515903)

They just raised it... Two weeks ago when I ordered 6 new computers for two different clients it was only a $50 upgrade to get it with XP pre-installed.

Oh well, you can always exercise your downgrade rights under the EULA and use a privious Dell OEM XP Cd if you have one laying around from previous systems, and still be legal without paying the Down/Upgrade tax.

Re:MrBoston (1)

HeronBlademaster (1079477) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516039)

Not really. Most Dell OEM XP cds are tied to the hardware they ship it with, unless they've changed that recently.

Re:MrBoston (4, Informative)

Taelron (1046946) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516427)

Nope, Any Dell OEM XP Cd shipped since 2000 will work on ANY Dell computer built after 2000. It looks at the BIOS codes... I routinely rebuild client computers and just use the first Dell OEM cd I grab that matches what version it has installed...

Used a Dell OEM XP Sp1 cd from like 2003 on a brand new Dell Laptop the other day after the person decided to open the box himself and go online before we installed antivirus or malware protection software...

Toshiba and HP do lock the OEM software to certain versions. And IBM and Dell lock the Server software to particular models, but not the XP home and Proversions.

You cant use an Dell cd on an HP box without having to call Microsoft and explaining and manually activating the machine.

Re:MrBoston (1)

HeronBlademaster (1079477) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516539)

It seems I stand corrected.

Re:MrBoston (1)

homesnatch (1089609) | more than 6 years ago | (#24515965)

Bull$&*t... I just bought 9 Latitude D630 laptops and the Vista Business edition includes downgrade to XP free. Upgrade from Vista Home to Business costs $99, but Vista Business with XP is the same price as Vista Business without XP. If you want, you can complain about nobody offering Vista Home downgrade to XP Home.

http://www.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/latit?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd [dell.com]

Old news? (4, Interesting)

sexybomber (740588) | more than 6 years ago | (#24515847)

I work for a computer consulting firm, and we've known about this for months now. In fact, we've switched from selling almost all Dell systems to almost all HP systems because of it; our clients just don't want Vista, and this is a really convenient way to satisfy them. I actually thought HP was doing us a favor shipping the XP systems because we do so much business with them, but I guess it's standard policy!

I hope HP continues to offer this option, because if we're any indication, the OEMs and resellers *really* appreciate it.

56% market share (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24515861)

In their latest earnings call, Microsoft claimed to have sold 40 million Vista licenses last quarter. Presumably that includes XP downgrades.

The thing is, approximately 72 million PCs were sold during those three months, meaning Vista licenses for a little under 56% of new PCs. That's better than the 39% market share last year, but rather unimpressive for a company which once had more than 90% of the market.

Re:56% market share (1)

rnswebx (473058) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516419)

Your numbers are only accounting for Vista and say nothing about XP. So, while Vista may only have 56% market share, XP is probably making up the other 30+% to keep MS near or possibly above the 90% threshold they tend to hover near.

Vista "Business", not Home/Ultimate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24515865)

This makes a lot of sense. Businesses that are ordering new machines but have not migrated to Vista yet will continue to order XP machines. This would be news if significant numbers of home customers were still ordering XP downgrades.

Re:Vista "Business", not Home/Ultimate (4, Interesting)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516213)

Home customers feel like they just can't do anything about it. A lot of them hate Vista, I have heard people tell me that they got a new computer, and I asked them how it was and they said that it was good except it had Vista on it. And no, these weren't the people who know much about computers. They see that Vista is pathetically slow and they don't want it.

A lot would downgrade to XP if they had either A) the right drivers B) an XP CD and C) the knowledge to downgrade.

Same thing I'm seeing (5, Insightful)

ErichTheRed (39327) | more than 6 years ago | (#24515937)

I wonder what Microsoft's thinking. Vista does have _some_ nice features, but a very long list of things to worry about. Every one of my IT peers I've talked to (I'm a desktop systems guy) has said their large company is putting off Vista migrations and waiting for Windows 7. We are too, not because we hate it, but because it's just not necessary yet.

It's been a pretty bad combination of factors:
- Features cut from the original Vista release that might have made it worth the pain
- IT departments who just spent 6 years getting XP stable enough
- Bad economy means that IT departments are cutting back, so it's not feasable to implement Vista even if you're a volume license customer. No one has time to research it properly with a reduced staff.
- XP SP3 is out, and is looking really good.
- Just a general "Oh no, here we go with a new OS again" malaise across IT departments in general.

Small businesses, on the other hand, are perfect Vista candidates. 3-user companies who don't run anything more complex than QuickBooks are Vista's target market right now. And now that it's on every computer you buy at any retail store, there's no reason for a small business to switch back. Large companies are basically not affected by June 30th because we can just buy Vista licenses and downgrade, which explains the inflated sales numbers.

On the "big company" side, I have lots of fun stuff to deal with. Internal web-based apps that were written when ActiveX was king. Business critical software last updated in 1996 and sometimes even before that. A constant mix of brand-new and 8-year-old hardware. Plus a user population that's not necessarily the earliest adopters.

I really hope Microsoft has something big planned for the next release. Swithing to Linux or Mac is totally not feasable for us (again, when you don't have 20 years of legacy Windows code to deal with, it's definitely a consideration.) It would take another major flop on their part to even think about migrating some of our business apps away from Windows.

Re:Same thing I'm seeing (3, Insightful)

HeronBlademaster (1079477) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516071)

It's even harder when you're not just *using* 20 years of legacy Windows code, but *developing* it...

Re:Same thing I'm seeing (1)

// (81289) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516397)

> [...] written when ActiveX was king [...]

Jeez, I must have slept through that bit... When was this exactly? :-)

Re:Same thing I'm seeing (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24516435)

Well, as a regular Slashdot reader I won't install Vista anytime soon because of the... well, the "FUD" this site (and some others) has generated.
No, really. I imagine Vista as an incompatible-to-XP and constantly crashing DRM-laden OS full of bugs with an evil UAC-Clippy constantly nagging me because I moved the mouse and prohibiting me from installing Firefox or third party media players, which also needs 10 minutes to copy a 1MB file because it probably sends another copy straight to Redmond and all drivers are still in beta or not available.
Even if that weren't far off, there are simply no interesting features worth the price-tag.

Re:Same thing I'm seeing (5, Insightful)

dtml-try MyNick (453562) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516661)

I think it's quite simple, Windows XP just works and does the job properly.

Windows XP with sp2 or sp3 is rock stable. There is tons of support to be found around the web if you do run in to trouble. You can't imagine a device, no matter how obscure, and you can find decent drivers for it.

Almost all the software you can think of runs on XP by now (except for the odd highly specific packages perhaps) XP will run nicely on older hardware by now, so no need to upgrade.

Most of the users use XP at home or are already familiar with it, so there is little to none training required.

I know I'm talking to the wrong crowd here but Microsoft actually made XP too good. Businesses and home users have little to none reason to upgrade.

The extra security added in Vista? If configured properly XP can be just as safe.
DirectX 10? Hardly any use for that in a business environment.
Other then that? Not much except for the eye candy.. Woohoo.. yes, that will make your office a lot more productive!

So why would any sane organization go through the trouble of upgrading all the machines, training the employees and running after all the new security holes and troubles that come with a new OS?

Linux and Apple are clearly taking advantage of this situation and MS... Windows 7 must be damn good otherwise Windows domination will soon be a thing of the past.

I think this whole Vista thing will be a disaster for MS far greater then Windows ME ever could be.
MS knew ME wasn't all that good and it was presented as a in-between OS, no big marketing and probbaly not so high expectations profitwise. Vista however was hailed as the 2nd coming of Christ.. well hello there Satan.. :)

TFA and summary are wrong. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24515941)

The quote in the summary misunderstands the slight-of-hand going on in an illustrative way. The controversy IN NO WAY casts doubt on how many copies of Vista have been SOLD. It casts doubt on how many copies of Vista are INSTALLED and being USED.

All the HP sales involve the sale of a Vista license. They're just installing XP instead of Vista (something the Vista license expressly allows). The customer's paying for a Vista license.

The clever marketing trick is MS would like you to believe the 2 numbers are similar, desipte significant evidence to the contrary. They want you to look at the big "sold Vista licenses" number and think "Wow, a lot of people are USING Vista".

Why don't people want Vista? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24515959)

OK, so assuming XP is outselling Vista, why are people choosing XP or even linux and MacOS over Vista?
Are people turned off for ethical reasons - is it something like the "Trusted Computing" and DRM that Microstoft put in there?
Or is Vista slower or less secure? Or are there just not enough apps that have been optimized to run faster on it than XP yet? Or is it something else?
My own reason not using Vista is that Vista doesn't seem like an upgrade for the reasons I listed above.

What does Vista get me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24515967)

All my apps work under XP, and they work *well*. I don't use an operating system, I use the applications.

I guess having DX 10 graphics would be nice, but I'd also need a new graphics card. That's a lot of money and migration hassle just for some new shader effects.

MS would still be shipping XP if (1)

denis-The-menace (471988) | more than 6 years ago | (#24515979)

Customers had to choose their OS.
Windows or Windows is not a choice.
Windows or Nothing would be a start.

I said it before in the Blu-Ray thread (2, Insightful)

night_flyer (453866) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516001)

There is no real advantage to upgrading to Vista or BluRay for most people

Re:I said it before in the Blu-Ray thread (1)

SpaceLifeForm (228190) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516051)

Plus, many don't want to spend the money to upgrade hardware even if there was any advantage.

Re:I said it before in the Blu-Ray thread (4, Insightful)

Thelasko (1196535) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516057)

There is no real advantage to upgrading to Vista or BluRay for most people

Actually, both come with a major disadvantage, DRM. Coincidence, I think not!

Solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24516041)

Sadly, on some new models, they are only coding Device Drivers for Vista. My current Dell Laptop has this problem, I cannot find drivers that are native to XP.

What is Vista? (2, Funny)

OrangeTide (124937) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516201)

I never heard of this Vista. I switched from AIX to Linux in the 90s. Are fringe operating systems like Vista really appropriate front page news for a respectable publication like Slashdot?

Standard OEM procedure? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24516249)

A small company that my friend works for also preloads copies of XP and chalks up Vista sales. I wonder if Microsoft makes them do this or if there's some sort of incentive...

Lipstick on a Pig (1, Funny)

curmudgeon99 (1040054) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516269)

As the saying goes, you can put lipstick on a pig but still nobody is going to want to kiss it. So goes with Vista.

Re:Lipstick on a Pig (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24516481)

Have you been to Alabama?

Secret Agreements? (1)

LoudMusic (199347) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516393)

Are there some kind of secret agreements between hardware and software developers that causes them to both make products that require the other side to develop products that require the other side to ... I'm sounding redundant.

I'm all for the progression of technology, but that doesn't mean 'more features without hardware usage efficiency'. The software being written these days is so bloaty that it requires hardware that hasn't even been produced yet.

And they're able to do that because people buy it. They're buying whiz-bang overpowered computers to run flashy OSes and bloated software just for the sake of the OS and software. It doesn't provide them with anything more than what they had before - just more bling.

Yes I enjoy a pretty interface and some animation on my screen. But after a couple weeks of that I just want it to do what I ask when I ask and quit showing me all that extra crap. I turn off all the animation and extra skinnings I can in everything I use - WinXP, OS X, Ubuntu. Why does a window need to animate opening? It just needs to open. Why does the menu bar need a gradient or transparency? It needs to be concise and legible.

It just doesn't make sense to me to use my computer's display as an accessory to my life, or decorate it like a room. It's like, ricing out a car. Why would you do that?

Interesting timing for this article (3, Informative)

bobcat7677 (561727) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516431)

Kindof ironic. Earlier this morning I got an e-mail from our IS people outlining the software policy of the school district (I'm currently working for a large school district).

IE7 was found to not have any compatibility issues with current software used so that is allowed but not mandated. Office 2007 seems to work ok, so they will be rolling it out or the compatibility pack updates "soon". And Vista was found to be not compatible, of little usefulness, and generally undesirable. Officially it is to be avoided and the district will look forward to upgrading to Windows 7 when it becomes available.

What this means to us, is that if a new workstation or laptop is requested by a user or their supervisor, and the district cannot procure a machine with XP, the request will be denied. Vista will only be allowed if the user submits a justification of why they need it (IE, have to run some software in the classroom as part of the curriculum that only works with Vista) and that justification is approved by their supervisor and IS.

Plagiarism (5, Interesting)

mothrsuperior (981616) | more than 6 years ago | (#24516463)

the second link: http://apcmag.com/xp_still_killing_vista_in_sales_volume_hp.htm [apcmag.com]

the third link: http://www.infopackets.com/news/business/microsoft/2008/20080801_windows_xp_still_outselling_windows_vista.htm [infopackets.com]

these two stories are word for word, character for character, 50-70% identical. Yet authorship is claimed by two completely different sources.
 
This would suggest to me that _somebody_ is a shitty squat blog, plagiarising for page hits.

What's the reason? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24516585)

Usually, I would say the reason for Vista not selling is that XP is just a very good and stable OS and there is no need. Unlike the switch from 95 to 98 to XP, which was needed because the former Systems constantly crashed.
The same strategy seems to work for many other companys though... e.g. who needs the latest Photoshop, when you can archieve the same functionality with some freeware-plugins? Still, it sells like sliced bread. What's the difference?

Playstation 2 still outselling Playstatoin 3 (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24516649)

Playstation 2 still outselling Playstatoin 3

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