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Net Shoppers Bullied Into "Verified By Visa" Program

kdawson posted more than 5 years ago | from the not-exactly-optional dept.

Security 302

bluefoxlucid writes "According to The Register, several banks are forcing users to opt-in to the Verified by Visa optional service by locking their cards if and when they encounter a Verified by Visa participating site and fail to opt-in. Register reader Steve says, 'This seems like a strange way to implement a voluntary system. On most of the retailers' websites there is no clue that you are about to be challenged by Verified by Visa until you attempt to complete the transaction. This means that you trigger the "fraud protection" unintentionally. And when you have located a retailer who doesn't require Verified by Visa to complete a purchase, you can't because your account is on hold.' Further, '[I]n some cases resetting the password is all too easy. Fraudsters know this and go after these credentials which, once obtained, make it harder for consumers to deny responsibility for a fraudulent transaction. Phishing scams posing as Verified by Visa sites have sprung up targeting these login credentials.'"

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302 comments

This is why I use American Express (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24528087)

Also, I like the fact my card is clear!

Why are all stories tagged "signed"? (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24528113)

Thanks.

Re:Why are all stories tagged "signed"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24528417)

My guess would be that 4chan is being DDOSed again and Anonymous is getting restless. Just consider yourself lucky they're not being tagged "desu"

Re:Why are all stories tagged "signed"? (2, Interesting)

iknowcss (937215) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528499)

There isn't a good way for them to coordinate as their beloved 4chan is currently down. Never gonna run around and hurt you.

Re:Why are all stories tagged "signed"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24529207)

Most of us just goto 7chan and wait for 4chan to come back up.

ps: desu spam is forced crap

Out on a limb (2, Funny)

negRo_slim (636783) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528149)

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that for most people transactions should be limited to those that can be completed via a physical exchange of payment for goods and services. Ya know I hop on newegg to get a part here and there, but when I have a choice I keep my money in my community even if it costs an extra $10-20USD for a part... I'm just saying.

Re:Out on a limb (5, Insightful)

PC and Sony Fanboy (1248258) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528237)

So, do eat local produce? Like the 100 mile diet? Do your clothes say 'Made in China'?

Purchasing locally only works if you live in an accessible area. Even when you buy local, it doesn't mean that you're actually supporting local business (like shopping at your local wal-mart doesn't really help your local economy that much).

Also, people in small communities often don't have the option to buy local? Or, What if the local stores are run by douchebags? Should we be foreced to spend our money to support them?

I'll keep buying online, unless I need something more than just a low price. When I need more than low prices (like, support) then I'll buy local.

I also like shopping while naked - which is easy to do online ... but not so easy IRL.

Re:Out on a limb (0, Flamebait)

negRo_slim (636783) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528435)

Purchasing locally only works if you live in an accessible area.

You're FUD doesn't work on an Oregonian my friend. The fact of the matter a real difference can be made by stopping at the local produce stand and buying your corn from a local. Sure the meat may be grown in god knows where cuz you got it at Wal-Mart but the fact remains you made a choice and purchased locally. That's how it has to start, not an over night revolution but instead simply being conscious of your actions and there repercussions. It's like the tire pressure thing, one little step but a ton of people can make a big diffrence.

Also, people in small communities often don't have the option to buy local? Or, What if the local stores are run by douchebags? Should we be foreced to spend our money to support them?

That's odd, I grew up in a town of less that 4,000 and had no trouble finding hand made clothes, fresh local produce, locally created art, music... You really aren't trying hard enough, I could go to Wal-mart right now and find tons of products that say MADE IN IDAHO right the hell on em, so yeah dude... I've been able to buy local no matter where I find myself.

I'll keep buying online, unless I need something more than just a low price. When I need more than low prices (like, support) then I'll buy local.

Yes because low price is king! Your community is 2nd! Dollar dollar bill ya'll... People not even willing to make one small change in their habits make me sick.

Re:Out on a limb (5, Funny)

Stanistani (808333) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528633)

People not even willing to make one small change in their habits make me sick.

Fortunately, you buy your antacids locally, so his buying habits directly benefit your community. The system works!

Re:Out on a limb (2, Interesting)

The Dancing Panda (1321121) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528775)

What exactly does buying locally help? My local economy? This is the same arguement that isolationists have against free trade, just on a smaller scale. Buying from the place that makes better things cheaper (IE: online, usually), while possibly hurting the local economy slightly on that one issue, helps the total economy even more.

And hand made clothes? Seriously? What, do you kids wear knit sweaters everyday?

Re:Out on a limb (1)

mpapet (761907) | more than 5 years ago | (#24529043)

Buying from the place that makes better things cheaper
To the grandparent "better" IS locally made clothes. Shoe-horning your version of "better" onto his some kind of falacy.

And hand made clothes? Seriously?
All of your clothes are made by hand anyway. Just not in the U.S. Grow up.

How this all relates back to complaints about Visa, this really is just the tip of the iceberg of abuse for them. Most of the abuse is on the merchant side. I guess they are running out of ways to screw the merchants.

Re:Out on a limb (5, Insightful)

PC and Sony Fanboy (1248258) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528933)

I think you're missed something.
  1. Wal-mart doesn't bring money into your community, it pays minimum wage and the money goes to the shareholders. A purchase at wal-mart is a geographically local purchase ... but not an economic one.
  2. You may be from Oregon, but I'm from small town Ontario (canada). Your local food shopping may work in your geographical area, but it doesn't generalize to the entire world population.
  3. Our government doesn't subsidize our produce nearly as much as your does - so local food isn't an option, unless you eat wheat and corn year round.
  4. If I buy something locally, and a better product is available from somewhere else, at a better price, then I'm being 'screwed' locally, so why should I support someone who takes advantage of me, local or not?

Buying locally only works if you're buying from locally owned/operated business. If you're buying 'local' from a multi-national chain, then you're not really buying local, you're just lying to yourself. The suggestion that we can buy local is only benificial if you buy from people who live in your town, and they also buy locally - otherwise, there is no point, since the local purchase doesn't stay local.

Yes because low price is king! Your community is 2nd!

This is true when my community isn't competitive because they don't have to be. When someone takes advantage of my situation, I'm less loyal to them. When someone charges me much more for a product because they CAN, not because they're being competitive, then I'm going to shop elsewhere, somewhere fair and reasonable. And why would I discriminate against another community, simply because of geographical distance (for example: Why should I deny the japanese my money when I can buy a perfectly good american car?).

Why? It all comes down to value. You can spend your money locally, but I'm only going to spend it locally when there is more value (which depends on the type of purchase) in shopping locally. Price is not king. But I'm not in a position to give excess money away for nothing. If you are in such a position, I'm happy for you.

Re:Out on a limb (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24529375)

>Wal-mart doesn't bring money into your community, it pays minimum wage and the money goes to the shareholders. A purchase at wal-mart is a geographically local purchase ... but not an economic one.

False. Walmart pays higher than minimum wage, and, in fact, higher than most local supermarkets. They also have a benefits package that surpasses not only most local supermarkets, but of many national-branded ones.

>You may be from Oregon, but I'm from small town Ontario (canada). Your local food shopping may work in your geographical area, but it doesn't generalize to the entire world population.

Funny coincidence! I'm in Ontario, Canada too.

>Our government doesn't subsidize our produce nearly as much as your does - so local food isn't an option, unless you eat wheat and corn year round.

Interesting. I live in a medium-sized city (KW) and we have two local options for locally grown food, a famous farmer's market (St. Jacobs) and the smaller one in Kitchener. Both have lots of selection. I'm not sure which part of ON you're from, but Kitchener/Waterloo, while somewhat large, isn't anywhere near being the biggest city here.

Not that I use either, since personally, I don't care. That and sanitation/ is a problem, as many products are sold "raw", eg: Unpasteurized apple cider.

>The suggestion that we can buy local is only benificial if you buy from people who live in your town, and they also buy locally - otherwise, there is no point, since the local purchase doesn't stay local.

True! That's why we have those farmer's markets, the stalls are run by the people from the farms the produce comes from.

>When someone charges me much more for a product because they CAN, not because they're being competitive, then I'm going to shop elsewhere, somewhere fair and reasonable. A

Agreed!

>Why? It all comes down to value.

Absolutely! Which is part of the reason I shop at Walmart, and feel good about it. Ask an employee at one while they're outside smoking (so they don't have to worry about getting in trouble from the boss), preferably one that has worked in a similar position elsewhere (eg: Zeller's) and get their opinion. It really isn't such a bad place to work. Is it great? No. It is a good career decision? Probably not. Does it comparable favorably to similar positions elsewhere? Yes. Especially considering the health plan, something very few other similar status jobs offer.

Wal-mart, for example. (0)

PC and Sony Fanboy (1248258) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528967)

simply being conscious of your actions and there repercussions.

Maybe you should learn about world economics, and perhaps finance. You'll see that many big companies, while they may have a local presence, aren't actually benefiting anyone except their shareholders. When you buy from them, you're not shopping local.

Shopping local means buying things that are made locally, not sold locally.

Re:Out on a limb (1)

PapaBoojum (232247) | more than 5 years ago | (#24529083)

People not even willing to make one small change in their habits make me sick.

That's ok. Self-aggrandizing holier-than-thou tools make me sick.

Re:Out on a limb (2, Funny)

fishbowl (7759) | more than 5 years ago | (#24529225)

>That's odd, I grew up in a town of less that 4,000 and had no trouble finding hand made clothes, fresh local
>produce, locally created art, music...

Yes, Oregon is generally something of a paradise in this respect.

You probably don't realize that you're being elitist here.

Re:Out on a limb (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24529313)

Um, I live in a rural community where there are *no* farmers markets within 75 miles of here. "Locally Grown" to me means the gifts of food that my neighbors bring from their gardens. This time of the year, yes, you can find produce that's been grown in Utah, but that's about it. As for internet shopping in general, I would rather go online and find what I need when I need it, rather than calling around to local shops who tell me "well no, we don't have it but we can order it for you". The products range from computer parts to craft equipment and supplies that are almost never sold locally. We *finally* got a local knitting shop that has a good selection of yarns, but before that I had to order everything online. I never purchase computer parts locally because they always have to be ordered in anyway. It would be nice if small towns had everything that everyone might need, but I think it's a pipe dream. Thank goodness for online shopping!

Re:Out on a limb (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24529363)

Sorry but no one should be coerced into buying local because of some sense of community. The world has changed, the internet is here and there are bigger companies selling for less. Sure there are draw backs such as quality, customer service, etc BUT if the local guys want to compete they need to find a niche they can compete with. I live in New York and there are plenty of local shops in manhattan that compete with the likes of super markets, ikeas, target, etc. You know how they stay in business? They try to provide something the big impersonal corps can do. Whether it is better quality, personal service, or anything else that can be better done by a small group or shop. I call bullshit on forcing someone's hand on local shit. Might work in Oregon but it doesn't work everywhere else.

Re:Out on a limb (5, Funny)

jafiwam (310805) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528355)

I buy all my hookers and blow locally.

Re:Out on a limb (4, Funny)

negRo_slim (636783) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528469)

I buy all my hookers and blow locally.

I doubt the blow is produced locally, unless you meant to say methamphetamine? Either way I applaud you for helping to support your local Escalade driving youths!

Re:Out on a limb (3, Funny)

uberjack (1311219) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528785)

I buy all my hookers and blow locally.

I doubt the blow is produced locally, unless you meant to say methamphetamine? Either way I applaud you for helping to support your local Escalade driving youths!

I live in Merced (CA), and I can say with pride that all our meth is made locally!

Re:Out on a limb (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24528541)

Your hookers were manufactured by the Chinese and your blow by the Columbians.

Re:Out on a limb (3, Informative)

sm62704 (957197) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528791)

"Blow" is the powdered form of cocaine. Most of the drug addicted hookers smoke crack cocaine, not powdered coke. Although some of the ones I know are heroin junkies, some are alcoholics, and some aren't addicted to anything except money (those are my favorites).

I pay 'em in cash, let 'em buy their own damned dope!

Re:Out on a limb (5, Funny)

fahrbot-bot (874524) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528903)

I buy all my hookers and blow locally.

They accept Visa? It really is everywhere you want to be! I'm guessing that for everything else you use Mastercard.

Re:Out on a limb (5, Informative)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528567)

Geat idea for you rich guys. When I buy a $19.95 cable off newegg, I can't afford to pay $45.00 for it locally.

When I become rich like you, I'll buy locally, until then, I'll stay a price whore.

Re:Out on a limb (1)

Shakrai (717556) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528935)

Eh, as with anything there is an upper limit as to what you can spend. I'll spend a few more bucks to get something locally -- but $45 vs $20? Forget it. I'd get it online in that scenario too.

Re:Out on a limb (3, Informative)

rthille (8526) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528957)

Heh, the way people get rich is to be price whores, or just not buy shit that doesn't _make_ money (stocks, properties, tools) at all. If someone is paying $45 for a cable, they probably didn't become rich, the were born that way.

Re:Out on a limb (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24529115)

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that for most people when the price and convenience of buying locally is equal to (or better than) that of buying online that they will buy locally.

I live at the northern most edge of silicon valley and can't even find the electronics I'm looking for half the time unless I want to drive 20 minutes or so down to Fry's. Even then, depending on the item, they may not have exactly what I want. Heck, even Best Buy is 15 minutes away. That may not seem much to you, but with gas at over $4.50 I limit my 30-minute round trips whenever possible - and it's only 30 minutes when the freeway is clear.

We have a Circuit City, but the last I heard it was closing and they almost NEVER have what I want, and certainly not at a price I am willing to pay.

And in this context "buy locally" doesn't even make sense. We have no mom & pop stores. These are huge chains, with the majority of the money leaving the area. I suppose I could keep the local misanthropes employed by shopping at the circuit city more often, but I'm hardly going to do that if the bastards can't even be bothered to provide a bare minimum of customer service!

VbV doesn't seem to work the same with newegg (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24528173)

I notice my newegg transactions redirect through a verified by visa page at the end of the checkout transaction.

I was never asked to opt in or provide a password or any other additional information or join anything.

Not sure where the problem is on this side of the pond.

Frankly, I'm cool with any additional security measures as long as I'm not forced into signing up special. And I assume all my personal info is already known by both newegg and visa.

Optional abuse (4, Interesting)

gilbertopb (1286258) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528199)

I was a costumer in my country, from a major nation bank who used these kind of "optional" verification service. If you don't accept the web service don't work to you. In this case, their site installed a java plugin and because this ALL my web urls was sent to the bank main server (!!!) to check if I was entering an "insecure site". I sent this info to the federal police and the Central Bank, and claimed as being a ilegal sniff processes and they (the bank) sent a group of lawyers to my house trying to force me to sign a paper where I must agree to won't use the site (the unique way to not install the plugin again) or migrating to Firefox with all kind of firewall (at my own effort) setings to lock the back IPs... When I read this kind of service happening, I just wander what kind of CEO that company has.

Re:Optional abuse (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24529235)

Gee, and I thought Andy Kaufman [wikipedia.org] died long ago...

I've always cancelled past this.. (1)

Channard (693317) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528207)

.. and not had a problem so far.

Re:I've always cancelled past this.. (1)

pilgrim23 (716938) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528341)

pictures of dead presidnets. -these seem to work no matter what. I realize powers that be claim that paying cash for all debts public and private is so 19th century but, it works...

Yeah? Then how come... (1)

Channard (693317) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528379)

.. nowhere will accept my crayon drawing of Zombie Lincoln in lieu of cash?

Re:Yeah? Then how come... (1)

dugjohnson (920519) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528655)

That's because it's crayon.
Do it as an oil, on canvas, large and splashy enough and it will be "art" and you can exchange it for all kinds of things.

Call it "The Counterfeit Series" and do all the bills.

Re:Yeah? Then how come... (1)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528851)

The Crayola people will be coming after you for implying that crayons can't create valuable art so don't be surprised if you wake up with a significant portion of Burnt Umber up your back side.

Re:Yeah? Then how come... (1)

Achromatic1978 (916097) | more than 5 years ago | (#24529057)

so don't be surprised if you wake up with a significant portion of Burnt Umber up your back side

... oh no, is it Friday again?

Re:I've always cancelled past this.. (1)

daveatneowindotnet (1309197) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528433)

And the bartering system exists today inspite of the invention of paper money. That don't mean it's the best way to go in all circumstances

Re:I've always cancelled past this.. (3, Informative)

Dr. Manhattan (29720) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528481)

Not at TigerDirect, at least not with my bank. There was no way to opt out, period - and I looked very carefully.

Opt-In != Required (or at least it shouldn't be) (4, Insightful)

CodeBuster (516420) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528233)

How can it be "opt-in" if you basically cannot use your card if you don't?

Re:Opt-In != Required (or at least it shouldn't be (2, Insightful)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528339)

How can it be "opt-in" if you basically cannot use your card if you don't?

Well, I guess you can opt to use your card with their authentication to shop on-line, or you can opt for a different method of payment.

Sadly, that's probably how they see it.

Cheers

sounds like change to Mastercard (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24528257)

If Visa is going to behave badly, dump them.

Re:sounds like change to Mastercard (5, Funny)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528363)

If Visa is going to behave badly, dump them.

Driving your customers to the competitor: Priceless. :-P

Cheers

Re:sounds like change to Mastercard (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24529111)

+5, only funny reference to the MasterCard ad campaign *ever* made.

Re:sounds like change to Mastercard (1)

Sandbags (964742) | more than 5 years ago | (#24529257)

Unfortunately for a lot of us, we don't use credit cards, but Visa Debit, which is the only option from almost every bank in America. I have a few credit cards, but I never use them. Why should I buy on credit if I have the cash today (with the exception being interest free, which I always opt for)

Sure, I could pay it off immediately, and on most cards, still get it interest free within the grace period, but then I'm processing 2 transactions to buy something once, and if I forget, (or if the check is lost by the fools at the post office) then I'm out the finance charges...

besides, on those credit cards, I have fraud protection... same goes for the bank account i debit from. If they want to add security that inconveniences me and simultaneously reduces their own risk, potentially placing blame and responsibility on me instead, then they need to up the interest rate on my savings account!

Re:sounds like change to Mastercard (3, Interesting)

Thelasko (1196535) | more than 5 years ago | (#24529015)

If Visa is going to behave badly, dump them.

From TFA:

"We like to support anything that aims to cut plastic fraud but Verified by Visa is flawed. MasterCard SecureCode works in much the same way and is no better," Goodwill added.

Visa and Mastercard are a cartel. [cnn.com] If one screws over the customer, so does the other.

Re:sounds like change to Mastercard (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24529161)

If Visa is going to behave badly, dump them.

I tried, but my bank dropped MasterCard and sent me a Visa a few years back.

This is probably a good thing, cardholders... (2, Interesting)

spentrent (714542) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528293)

Verified by Visa, 3D Secure, etc are GOOD for you.

"Card not present" transactions -- and especially online payments -- are inherently risky. 3D Secure essentially makes your payments password protected.

The dark side is that the card networks are pushing this so that they can move fraud liability from the merchants to the consumers.

Re:This is probably a good thing, cardholders... (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528649)

I'm not so sure.

I think all of my cards have switched to Mastercard now, but at least one of them was a Visa credit card until fairly recently. I came across this "Verified by Visa" thing out of the blue one day, having had no prior warning from either my card company or the merchant that I should expect it.

So I did what any smart person does when a web browser surprisingly pops up a window they've never seen before and asks for their confidential information: I left the site immediately, cancelled that card and reset all my security details, and shopped elsewhere using a different payment method in the meantime. Both Visa and the merchant in question lost out on that one.

Re:This is probably a good thing, cardholders... (3, Informative)

HTH NE1 (675604) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528867)

I think all of my cards have switched to Mastercard now

MasterCard has an equivalent system called SecureCode. I haven't encountered it yet, though I checked and the bank with which I have my MasterCard does support it.

Maybe if they were competent at it. (4, Insightful)

argent (18001) | more than 5 years ago | (#24529089)

Verified by Visa, 3D Secure, etc are GOOD for you.

Adding an inherently insecure stage to every transaction... which provides another opportunity for fraudsters using cross site and cross zone attacks to steal your authentication tokens... is good for you?

On what planet?

Re:This is probably a good thing, cardholders... (1)

mpapet (761907) | more than 5 years ago | (#24529337)

The dark side is that the card networks are pushing this so that they can move fraud liability from the merchants to the consumers.

I'm guessing that they want to collect more from consumers and slow down the increase in penalty rates the merchants with fraudulent transactions.

Not only that (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24528299)

But this Verified by Visa malarkey also encourages poor design and security choices by customers and merchants:

- Merchants must embed the Verified by Visa site inside their own checkout page (there must be some kind of xss hole there somewhere).
- The Verified by Visa redirect page requires javascript.
- Verified by Visa forces a customer to login to their web-bank; "elevating" a simple shopping session into a high-security web-bank login session.

What if the customer is using another PC (for those with web-bank logins tied to their home PC)?

What if the customer doesn't have their web-bank tokens / one time pad sheet with them?

In my opinion, the Verified by Visa scheme is overly simplistic and makes unwarranted assumptions about the customer and merchant which aren't appropriate in a "web 2.0" world.

Travelocity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24528367)

I just bought a trip package through travelocity the other day, and they forced me to opt into this verified by visa crap.

This is how businesses work (1)

gooseupfront (1120847) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528375)

It's sad but true. When businesses change their products, the best way to move the user base is to "encourage" them while keeping it voluntary. I say encourage because there really isn't that much of a choice. Its the same with vista, if you buy a new computer, odds are you're stuck with vista. EZ pass is my sworn enemy. I don't want to switch, but I hate when I hit a toll in the road and there are two exact change booths with huge lines, and ten ezpass lanes without any backup at all. Its just forcing people to accept new products.

I came across this as well... (2, Funny)

Taibhsear (1286214) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528393)

but slightly different. My bank never informed me that they were implementing it or of what this program even was so I never signed up for it online. Sometimes I could cancel the order and it would go through anyways (good to see the software is working properly, lol). But after a while that stopped working. Several sites wouldn't let me purchase anything unless I did sign up for it. So I either had to go to some shoddy shady website to buy what I needed (if the option even existed) and end up possibly paying more, or sign up for this, yet another, "layer of protection" for my account. By the time I'm middle aged my account will be so wrapped up in layers it'll look like a Michelin Man Mummy.

Merchants instantly lose chargebacks if they don't (5, Informative)

Coopjust (872796) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528445)

If a merchant doesn't use the Verified by Visa program when a bank offers it (Target Visas, for instance, do not use the program), and they get a chargeback, the merchant instantly loses and is charged the transaction cost + $35.

It sucks, but it's very understandable from the merchant side. It only needs to happen a couple times with big $$$ buyers for a small shop to be badly hurt.

Re:Merchants instantly lose chargebacks if they do (1)

Splab (574204) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528869)

Why why WHY!!!!! do you guys accept this kind of treatment?

In Denmark, if something is charged to your account and its fraudulent or something is amiss with the transaction, the bank is the one carrying the charge, not the customer or company.

If it turns out you are screwing around with them you are of course going to jail, but at least we assume that something really did go wrong.

Re:Merchants instantly lose chargebacks if they do (1)

Shakrai (717556) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528971)

In Denmark, if something is charged to your account and its fraudulent or something is amiss with the transaction, the bank is the one carrying the charge, not the customer or company.

So what you are basically saying is that in Denmark the bank charges higher fees to make up for the loss instead of the merchant charging higher fees?

Sounds like the consumer is still paying in the end.....

Re:Merchants instantly lose chargebacks if they do (1)

argent (18001) | more than 5 years ago | (#24529021)

So what you are basically saying is that in Denmark the bank charges higher fees to make up for the loss instead of the merchant charging higher fees?

The issue isn't the cost of the protection, it's the implementation.

There's no other option at this time. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24528455)

What most people don't seem to realize is that 3dSecure is the *only* option for online retailers to protect themselves. Visa and Mastercard won't take responsibility for fraud, they just charge it back to the merchant. 3dSecure is the only option they offer to avoid that.

What that means is that if the merchants do NOT adopt 3dSecure, then prices go up on the products you buy to cover their additional costs.

You may not like the interface, but the reality is, it will save you money in the long run. The other option is not to buy online.

A bunch of spoiled whiny babies in this world.

3dSecure isn't secure for the customer... (4, Insightful)

argent (18001) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528951)

ANY system that redirects me to a framed third-party page that I can't verify to provide authentication information is inherently insecure and I will not use it. I've had problems with identity fraud online even without this extra layer of insecurity...

If this means I only buy online with Paypal (which I have funded by an account with a limited balance that I *only* use for Paypal) and one-shot debit cards from the grocery store, I guess I should thank them for making me shop more safely online.

Does Skype do this? (4, Interesting)

ardle (523599) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528479)

A few months ago, I tried to buy credit on the Skype website and was unable to bypass the "Verified by Visa" bit as I had in the past (it wasn't easy to do it then, either - I think it involved hitting the "back" and quickly copying a link before I was redirected to VBV again).
I haven't been back since.

Re:Does Skype do this? (1)

jgtg32a (1173373) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528543)

Yea they use it. Hell when I saw that I thought it was BS and a phishing attack to I bailed on that and just bought a calling card instead. (needed to call internationally)

Re:Does Skype do this? (1)

orielbean (936271) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528813)

I know that NewEgg uses it with my local credit union. Very irritating when using NoScript in firefox...

And it's often broken unless you run IE (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24528483)

It didn't work with my old bank and Safari or Firefox(and the netbank was not too good either).
So when a bank contacted me about changing to them, I asked at the meeting if they supported one of those browsers under OS X which they did(and their sites stated it also).
Must suck to have a great site that works with all types of OS and browsers only to have people rejected because their bank sucks. :)

Re:And it's often broken unless you run IE (1)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528651)

Maybe they implemented it wrong because I use Safari and FF on Windows and FF on Linux and never had a problem with Verified by Visa.

Re:And it's often broken unless you run IE (1)

Vancorps (746090) | more than 5 years ago | (#24529003)

It's a problem if you run noscript, when you go to allow the site to run the script you can't refresh and it screws everything up. So basically you have to know that your merchant uses Verified by Visa and enable it globally before you click the final checkout.

Of course once you're done you turn that feature off. I had noscript screw up my Newegg order before. The OS doesn't matter, it's purely FF where I've seen this and strictly because of noscript. Firefox without noscript has no problems with it.

planet residents bushwhacked into subservience (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24528539)

fear is unprecedented evile's primary weapon. that, along with deception & coercion, helps most of us remain (unwittingly?) dependent on its' greed/fear/ego based hired goons' agenda. Most of yOUR dwindling resources are being squandered on the 'war', & continuation of the billionerrors stock markup FraUD/pyramid scheme. nobody ever mentions the real long term costs of those debacles in both life & the notion of prosperity, not to mention the abuse of the consciences of those of us who still have one. see you on the other side of it. the lights are coming up all over now. conspiracy theorists are being vindicated. some might choose a tin umbrella to go with their hats. the fairytail is winding down now. let your conscience be yOUR guide. you can be more helpful than you might have imagined. there are still some choices. if they do not suit you, consider the likely results of continuing to follow the corepirate nazi hypenosys story LIEn, whereas anything of relevance is replaced almost instantly with pr ?firm? scriptdead mindphuking propaganda or 'celebrity' trivia 'foam'. meanwhile; don't forget to get a little more oxygen on yOUR brain, & look up in the sky from time to time, starting early in the day. there's lots going on up there.

http://news.google.com/?ncl=1216734813&hl=en&topic=n
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/31/opinion/31mon1.html?em&ex=1199336400&en=c4b5414371631707&ei=5087%0A
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/29/world/29amnesty.html?hp
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/02/nasa.global.warming.ap/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/weather/06/05/severe.weather.ap/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/weather/06/02/honore.preparedness/index.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/01/opinion/01dowd.html?em&ex=1212638400&en=744b7cebc86723e5&ei=5087%0A
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/05/senate.iraq/index.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/17/washington/17contractor.html?hp
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/03/world/middleeast/03kurdistan.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080708/cheney_climate.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080805/pl_politico/12308;_ylt=A0wNcxTPdJhILAYAVQms0NUE

is it time to get real yet? A LOT of energy is being squandered in attempts to keep US in the dark. in the end (give or take a few 1000 years), the creators will prevail (world without end, etc...), as it has always been. the process of gaining yOUR release from the current hostage situation may not be what you might think it is. butt of course, most of US don't know, or care what a precarious/fatal situation we're in. for example; the insidious attempts by the felonious corepirate nazi execrable to block the suns' light, interfering with a requirement (sunlight) for us to stay healthy/alive. it's likely not good for yOUR health/memories 'else they'd be bragging about it? we're intending for the whoreabully deceptive (they'll do ANYTHING for a bit more monIE/power) felons to give up/fail even further, in attempting to control the 'weather', as well as a # of other things/events.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=weather+manipulation&btnG=Search
http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=video+cloud+spraying

dictator style micro management has never worked (for very long). it's an illness. tie that with life0cidal aggression & softwar gangster style bullying, & what do we have? a greed/fear/ego based recipe for disaster. meanwhile, you can help to stop the bleeding (loss of life & limb);

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/28/vermont.banning.bush.ap/index.html

the bleeding must be stopped before any healing can begin. jailing a couple of corepirate nazi hired goons would send a clear message to the rest of the world from US. any truthful look at the 'scorecard' would reveal that we are a society in decline/deep doo-doo, despite all of the scriptdead pr ?firm? generated drum beating & flag waving propaganda that we are constantly bombarded with. is it time to get real yet? please consider carefully ALL of yOUR other 'options'. the creators will prevail. as it has always been.

corepirate nazi execrable costs outweigh benefits
(Score:-)mynuts won, the king is a fink)
by ourselves on everyday 24/7

as there are no benefits, just more&more death/debt & disruption. fortunately there's an 'army' of light bringers, coming yOUR way. the little ones/innocents must/will be protected. after the big flash, ALL of yOUR imaginary 'borders' may blur a bit? for each of the creators' innocents harmed in any way, there is a debt that must/will be repaid by you/us, as the perpetrators/minions of unprecedented evile, will not be available. 'vote' with (what's left in) yOUR wallet, & by your behaviors. help bring an end to unprecedented evile's manifestation through yOUR owned felonious corepirate nazi glowbull warmongering execrable. some of US should consider ourselves somewhat fortunate to be among those scheduled to survive after the big flash/implementation of the creators' wwwildly popular planet/population rescue initiative/mandate. it's right in the manual, 'world without end', etc.... as we all ?know?, change is inevitable, & denying/ignoring gravity, logic, morality, etc..., is only possible, on a temporary basis. concern about the course of events that will occur should the life0cidal execrable fail to be intervened upon is in order. 'do not be dismayed' (also from the manual). however, it's ok/recommended, to not attempt to live under/accept, fauxking nazi felon greed/fear/ego based pr ?firm? scriptdead mindphuking hypenosys.

consult with/trust in yOUR creators. providing more than enough of everything for everyone (without any distracting/spiritdead personal gain motives), whilst badtolling unprecedented evile, using an unlimited supply of newclear power, since/until forever. see you there?

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."

meanwhile, the life0cidal philistines continue on their path of death, debt, & disruption for most of US. gov. bush denies health care for the little ones;

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/03/bush.veto/index.html

whilst demanding/extorting billions to paint more targets on the bigger kids;

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/12/bush.war.funding/index.html

& pretending that it isn't happening here;

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3086937.ece
all is not lost/forgotten/forgiven

(yOUR elected) president al gore (deciding not to wait for the much anticipated 'lonesome al answers yOUR questions' interview here on /.) continues to attempt to shed some light on yOUR foibles. talk about reverse polarity;

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article3046116.ece

Verified with Visa isn't that bad (1)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528573)

I registered for it ages ago and it's not a hassle. In fact I only have one place that I frequent that uses it.

However if you're given the option to opt out then that should be the case even if they are trying to protect people with verified by visa.

Verified not to work (5, Interesting)

Fear13ss (917494) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528613)

HAHA, Verified by Visa, such a joke... I have verified by visa on one of my accounts. I also like the thought of protecting myself where I can. So my browsing preference is Firefox + cookie whitelist + NoScript. That combination is enough to fully bypass Verified by Visa. A few months back I put in an order at NewEgg where I was challenged by the Verified by Visa system (which was not white listed for cookies or scripts) upon making the white list change to NoScript, the window refreshed and amazingly I had successfully completed the Verified by Visa Challenge (by allowing scripting on the page). Order went through without a hitch. Another satisfied customer (of NewEgg), if I was paying for Verified by Visa, I'd demand my money back.

I've never had a problem (1)

Monty845 (739787) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528617)

I use a VISA card and have never had a problem with an online merchant refusing a transaction after I declined to use verified by visa... Of course I only use my card when dealing with major retailers, is there some segment of the market the author is dealing with that is paticularly prone to charge backs or something?

No way to verify (5, Informative)

Todd Knarr (15451) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528643)

One of the reasons I've avoided Verified by Visa is that the way they implement the "authentication" page it's impossible for the customer to tell whether they're entering their password into the Visa site or some random black-hat site. And I have a simple rule: I don't enter my account's password into any form that's not on a page clearly and verifiably served by my bank's Web server.

Of course, if I'm buying on a Web site, I'm most likely using my Amex card which doesn't have this issue. If the merchant doesn't take Amex, I'll go to one that does.

Re:No way to verify (1)

digitalaudiorock (1130835) | more than 5 years ago | (#24529165)

One of the reasons I've avoided Verified by Visa is that the way they implement the "authentication" page it's impossible for the customer to tell whether they're entering their password into the Visa site or some random black-hat site.

Are you saying that they actually implemented it in a way where you can't clearly see an address bar??? That's simply beyond belief! That's the first thing anyone with any knowledge of phishing looks for. I'm using a Mastercard...I hope they don't start this crap...jeez.

Verified by Visa useless to customers (1)

smallshot (1202439) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528657)

I've been using verified by visa for some time now, but every time I make a "large" purchase online, EVEN AFTER verifying my visa password, visa still puts a hold on my card and calls a few DAYS later if I don't call them first, asking me to verify my purchases... Tell me how useful that is?

Re:Verified by Visa useless to customers (2, Interesting)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528839)

I've been using verified by visa for some time now, but every time I make a "large" purchase online, EVEN AFTER verifying my visa password, visa still puts a hold on my card and calls a few DAYS later if I don't call them first, asking me to verify my purchases... Tell me how useful that is?

I had that happen to me a few months ago, but at the time I thought it was perfectly reasonable.

I bought a digital SLR on-line (about $1200CDN). They have no history of me shopping on line (I usually don't), and a big purchase stuck out.

The next night I was paying for dinner and the card was declined. Right away I knew I'd flagged their system and called them the next day.

Personally, I kind of liked the fact that they're monitoring my account for atypical transactions. The alternative is much worse.

I guess VISA and the merchants are in a tough place -- if they don't scrutinize stuff, they get defrauded. If they do, they might irritate customers as their security flags lock the account.

Cheers

Verified by........? (1)

blankaBrew (1000609) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528673)

Did anyone else read the headline as Verified by Vista?

Re:Verified by........? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24528901)

No. I can read.

Re:Verified by........? (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528949)

I did.

What's frightening is that I wasn't that shocked. It seemed perfectly believable -- just somewhat frightening. I was contemplating possible routes to take to continue using Linux instead -- everything from cracking it to angry letters to lawsuits...

Wasn't till I clicked through to TFA -- and even then, only after I noticed that there seemed to be quite a lot of mention of Visa. Were they the only company stupid enough to make a deal with Microsoft about Vista?!... Oh. Oh.

Moral of the story: Always Read TFA.

Last year called, it wants its story back (1)

Alpha Whisky (1264174) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528767)

Seriously, this happened to me LAST YEAR! I presumed "Mastercard Secure" would pull the same shit, so I'm enrolled in that.

Say no to yet another set of credentials (1)

nohup (26783) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528827)

Look, first it was credit card number and the expiration date was the confirmation. Then they went to the CVV2 codes as verification. Now they want yet another additional layer of protection "verified by visa".

The phishers/pirates just have to get more info each time and with each increasing layer it just inconveniences the consumer.

THIS NEEDS TO STOP.

What we need are smart cards. That would solve all these problems once and for all.

Re:Say no to yet another set of credentials (1)

Lead Butthead (321013) | more than 5 years ago | (#24529339)

...THIS NEEDS TO STOP. What we need are smart cards. That would solve all these problems once and for all.

Except that issuing smart cards to millions of "customers" costs THEM money and generates no revenue, but forcing another "optional" service onto "customers" does. As a profiteering company, the choice is obvious.

Ah, Visa (1)

phoneteller (1261402) | more than 5 years ago | (#24528861)

For a moment there, I thought it said "Verified by Vista"... maybe Microsoft was forcing everyone to buy Vista!! On closer look, I saw it was Visa and not Vista. Same thing though, from the article.

Hello Americans, British and European banks laws (2, Interesting)

olddotter (638430) | more than 5 years ago | (#24529027)

BITE

Seriously, while we live far from a legal utopia in the US, the little bits I have learned about banking laws and regulations in Europe make we amazed that those folks don't keep all their Euro's and pounds in their mattresses.

It seems that often Europeans have no recourse against banking mistakes. But on the US side of the pond banks would rather take the losses from robbery than but in "unfriendly looking" security that might make customers feel uncomfortable. Hence they also take the loses on Fraud, identity theft, etc.

And you wondered why your credit card charged 22% interest.

Verified by Visa Backdoor (5, Informative)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 5 years ago | (#24529037)

I am a religious user of disposable credit card numbers. [findarticles.com] The numbers are user-generated using a little flash-applet that I requires a login and password. They are linked, at the bank's end, to my 'real' credit card account be it visa or mastercard.

I have never signed up for verified by visa, but I have found that every time I use a disposable number linked to my visa account that it automagically passes the verified by visa tests - I'll see the verified by visa web page come up, and without any other actions on my part, it says that I passed or was verified or whatever and my transaction goes through just fine.

Re:Verified by Visa Backdoor (5, Interesting)

osmodion (716658) | more than 5 years ago | (#24529211)

I used to use disposable credit card numbers all the time. Occasionally I would give a friend without a credit card a one time use number so he could buy something online. By accident, he used the same number twice, after it was supposed to be invalid. The charge went through without a problem. These disposable numbers aren't nearly as safe as the banks make them out to be.

I had my Visa Locked because of this (2, Interesting)

cheezitmike (537630) | more than 5 years ago | (#24529055)

"Verified by Visa" screwed up my Visa card a few months ago. My wife was purchasing airline tickets on-line and unexpectedly got to a "Verified by Visa" page during the checkout. This was the first time either of us had ever heard of or seen "Verified by Visa". Since I'm the primary cardholder, but the tickets were in her name, the Verified by Visa page denied my wife access (even though it's a joint account and we each have our own cards with our own names on them). Then our credit card account got locked for "fraud" (which I found out after calling customer service), so I couldn't even buy the tickets in my name.

We ended up having to get a new card issued with a new number, which took a week, during which I had to make sure that nothing like Netflix auto-billed my old "locked for fraud" card number.

These programs suck... (1)

kabocox (199019) | more than 5 years ago | (#24529227)

I was looking at http://www.lbweyewear.com/ [lbweyewear.com] and using a debit card that you could use anywhere on the mastercard system. The site mentioned something about a Secure MasterCard program. So I did what anyone intelligent would to. I went to the mastercard website to look up the damn thing. What is it? Basically another PIN that you have to enter for you to use your card.

I was hoping/wanting to go to the mastercard site and have them generate me a unique one time card ID for either each individual online transaction or for each individual online merchant. That's what I'd have considered secure and worth signing up for. They basically wanted me to register my card for an additional online PIN that would allow the card to be used for online purchases. What individual came up with that scheme? It didn't sound secure at all to me other than the naming of it.

I'd sign up for what I consider decent security in a heart beat. Heck, I don't mind having a mastercard login that I'd sign in to each time to preapprove all purchases and would give me tools that would help with keeping my account secure. I don't want something just labeled "secure" so their marketing/PR departments can say its now "safe" to use their card through the internet.

Why not proper authentcation? (1)

GuldKalle (1065310) | more than 5 years ago | (#24529259)

For a short while I was wondering why Visa didn't use a two-factor authentication model when they made Verified by Visa / 3-D-secure.
Then I remembered: they care only about their own losses, not their costumers'

A positive (2, Funny)

sjonke (457707) | more than 5 years ago | (#24529379)

When I bought that iPhone App, Verified by Visa outright verified that it was *I* who was rich, and not some spineless imposter.

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