Microsoft Investing In "Open Source" Lab In Philippines 95
jaromil writes "Following up its cozying up to OSCON, now Microsoft is launching its first 'open source' lab in the Philippines, paying for a huge media coverage. From the press release it seems they are also advertising the issue of 'interoperability' to outnumber one of the strongest features of open source in Asia: recycling old computers. Any suggestions for good stories about MS interoperability so far? :)"
Oh oh oh! Pick me! Pick me! (Score:3, Funny)
Any suggestions for good stories about MS interoperability so far? :)"
There won't be one. Because everyone knows that Microsoft are just an evil faceless (and overweight and prone to sweating in excess) corporation, am I right? :V
GPL (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:GPL (Score:4, Funny)
Yes, we all want World Peace and and End to Hunger as well.
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I've never heard of those projects - are they on SourceForge?
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Re:GPL (Score:5, Insightful)
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Headline: The government in the Philipines has seized all of Microsoft's assets within the borders of the Philipines. An official of the government has stated that all software seized will be released under the Government of the Philipines License.
Careful what you wish for. :P
Re:GPL (Score:4, Informative)
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Why was this marked troll? Systems which prefer to distribute under a BSD license cannot include GPL code, just like how the GPL'd Linux cannot include the extra restrictions of CDDL code.
Re:GPL (Score:5, Informative)
this isn't a lab like that - MS has several similars labs, eg the performance lab I attended once.
This is a place where you can bring your open source apps and test them working against MS products. eg, if you made an Outlook clone, you could bring it in and test it against Exchange.
Of course, it also allows MS to have a sneaky look at the competition.....
Re:GPL (Score:5, Funny)
Sure. Because if there is anything open source projects are about, it is secrecy and control of information...
It's not like open source software is... I don't know, *open*, during its development.
Re:GPL (Score:5, Insightful)
Why? Don't you think it would be good for BSD and Apache and many other free software projects to benefit, rather than just those free software projects that are under GPL?
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Ok..I know BSD and Apache are under different licensing schemes, but, what in those schemes prevents them from using/inclucing GPL stuff? I mean, GPL just states you have to give credit to author, and make source code available...what's wrong with that?
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The licenses are incompatible basically and legally.
I work on a relatively large BSD licensed project, and keeping GPL'd code from tainting the codebase can be a relatively drama filled fun job.
The short of it is - with Apache 2 you cannot combine with GPL 2 and distribute the result legally. With BSD and GPL you can only distribute the entire project under the GPL when combined, it has extra fun when you throw in things like optional linking against GPL-incompatible libraries.
I'd probably wager that a larg
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I'd probably wager that a large chunk of GPL'd projects actually violate the terms of their own license since most people dont know any better.
I wouldn't be surprised. I'm in a similar situation - (co)running a BSDL project and trying to keep GPL'd code out. We also have issues with incompatibilities between LGPLv3 and GPLv2.
Most of the people who release their code under the GPL display a woeful lack of understanding of what the license actually says. Even on Slashdot usually the people most vocally advocating the GPL don't actually understand what it says.
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Most of the people who release their code under the GPL display a woeful lack of understanding of what the license actually says. Even on Slashdot usually the people most vocally advocating the GPL don't actually understand what it says.
This isn't anything special to "open source" licenses. It's a property of nearly every legal agreement. If you've ever hung out with any lawyers, you've probably heard them comment that they don't know what a law or contract really means, and the only way of knowing is to
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The extra restrictions also prevent non-open source applications from using GPL code.
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Including making the source code availiable?
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That's GPLv2, GPLv3 works the same way I believe, but I'm more familiar with v2.
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Why? Don't you think it would be good for BSD and Apache and many other free software projects to benefit, rather than just those free software projects that are under GPL?
Why do you think it has to be released under only one license? The choice of the license is up to the owner of the code, so they can release on GPL, and BSD, and Apache, and Mozilla,and Microsoft draconian all at once. And why do you think anybody but Microsoft will benefit?
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I think the worry is that Microsoft will release under a license that is purposely incompatible with the GPL, which means it will also be incompatible with the BSD license.
In case you don't believe me, it should be pretty obvious. BSD code can be used in GPL projects. Therefore any rule that prevents the code from being used in a GPL project will also prevent it from being released as BSD licensed, because part of being BSD licensed is the ability to use it in GPL code.
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Their last release to ADOdb (a PHP project) was under the LGPL license, so I don't think GPL is very far away
MS? Really? (Score:1)
Ha-ha!
http://op-for.com/simpsons_nelson_haha2.jpg [op-for.com]
Interoperability (Score:4, Insightful)
"Any suggestions for good stories about MS interoperability so far?"
Windows has interoperated with my trash can just fine. Does that count?
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"Any suggestions for good stories about MS interoperability so far?"
Windows has interoperated with my trash can just fine. Does that count?
ARE YOU CRAZY!?! The trash can will explode!!!
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Windows has interoperated with my trash can just fine. Does that count?
You're not the only one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVbf9tOGwno [youtube.com]
Why the Philippians? (Score:3, Interesting)
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I'm just speculating but it could be that there are now enough computers in the Philippines that MS want to make sure they don't get the Linux bug.
Vista practically forced me to use Linux in order to get any work done.
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You got it - Linux is getting big in the Philippines. The school system has started using it.
link [computerworld.com.au]
link2 [google.com]
What country owns the IP? (Score:4, Interesting)
Why does an American company need to outsource thinking? Will Americans be expected to pay for this?
Smoke and Mirrors... Otherwise Known as Buzzwords. (Score:5, Interesting)
This is why I have such a dislike of "big business".
Forget for a moment the wasteful philosophy getting people to upgrade for new shiny (and I am by no means saying the 'upgraders' are guilt free).
Dismiss the fact that Microsoft has no desire to "embrace" open source -- quite the opposite, it wants to control the market with it, or rather redefine the market on its terms -- sure, you can use all of our codebase that we provide as open source, but you only get to plug-in our components, using our tools, with our licensing restrictions.
What irks me most is this marketing bullshit that gets thrown into the air. Right now, reading through the PHB technical mags and rags, one can't go an issue without seeing something on "open sourcing" saving money here, or "interoperability" brings new efficacy to the table, or "free software" causing a major paradigm shift breeding synergy in the multi-faceted workplace.
And that is what this is. It has nothing to do with functionality, and certainly if one goes by Microsoft's track record with open source, it has more to do with embrace and extend.
Now, at this point it would be easy to say: "don't condemn them yet, IBM was once seen as Satan too!" (Not withstanding IBMs frivolity in the patent market).
All I can say to that is maybe, and I damn hope them have learned their lesson. The open source community, however, has been burned far too many times with MS' carrot and the stick act.
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This is all about making sure all Open source apps work on windows so that the likelihood of there being a killer app that won't work on windows is reduced.
The downside for Microsoft is that now OSS apps can compete directly with windows apps and eventually if they take over then managers may very well wonder why they are paying for windows if everything they use runs on Linux anyways. But that is a much slower rate of loss than you would get from a much needed app that runs only on Linux.
That's putting a bright face on it (Score:3, Insightful)
My first instinct reading the summary was, well, now that they've embraced/extended the word "open" so that -- astonishingly -- their tarball of an XML format qualifies in common parlace, I suppose they'll start in on making "open source" mean something other than what it actually means.
For Act III, I don't imagine they'd have much difficulty in redefining "free software" so that it means "MS software with a price tag of $0"
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I don't imagine they'd have much difficulty in redefining "free software" so that it means "MS software with a price tag of $0"
You should be careful there, because corporations have a way of imposing a price that's much greater than the money involved.
It's entirely likely that, if you sign on to any of Microsoft's "open source" plans, and they show you their source code, they could "pwn" you thereafter. They'll have the legal right to demand access to the code you write, not just for yourself, but for any
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No matter what Microsoft's intentions may be with regards to the open-source community, the entire Mono codebase is licensed with GPL. That is supposedly Microsoft's future wrt all the MCSEs training with Visual Studio and C#. I'm not convinced .NET is an "upgrade" from VB in terms of performance - it is more an upgrade to security wrt the dangerous and stupid things programmers have been allowed to do in VB.
Whether people upgrade to the .NET world or just start sandboxing their Windows environment is up
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Well you can always ensure that if it isnt GPL'ed or a BSD or similar license that you just toss it and make your own. That is the beauty of open source and with the courts opening their eyes and curb stomping retarded software patents (ZOMG ONE CLICK!) the future might not be so bleak for open source in regards to the patent minefield as well.
MS promises to feign interoperability better (Score:5, Interesting)
MORDOR, Washington, Friday - Microsoft today announced carefully-phrased promises to appear more open about its business practices and technologies, so as to expand its reach through developers, partners, customers and competitors' wallets.
The interoperability principles and promises are an apparent, lengthy, reluctant, and necessary step for Microsoft's sudden efforts to fulfill the obligations outlined in the September 2007 judgment of the European Court of First Instance (CFI). And to have half a chance of getting OOXML through ISO.
"These pronouncements appear to be an important change in how we share information about our products and technologies and a significant expansion in apparent transparency," said Microsoft CEO Heave Stallmore. "While we've promised considerable progress over the past several years, today's announcement takes our virtual commitment to a new level.
"For the past thirty years, we have carefully shared misinformation with thousands of now-bankrupt partners around the world. By promoting greater interoperability, opportunity and choice, we hope to share even more of their information to our benefit. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."
Microsoft has already embraced and extended the open source paradigm to its users' personal files, which can be accessed freely by hundreds of thousands of Web sites providing self-installing keyloggers, adware, rootkits and botnets. Work is under way on a graphic markup language for more powerful commands, such as embedding an individual letter "t" with a directive to send the last ten recorded fingerprints from the user's touchpad to a Nigerian Web server.
To enable third-party developers to connect to Microsoft products, Microsoft will publish !!!for free!!! voluminous documentation, setting a new low in information per page, to contaminate developers with claimed knowledge for which their employers can later be sued, should they not cough up what Microsoft considers reasonable and non-discriminatory (or not unreasonably so) royalties. Open source developers !!!may use these protocols too!!! precisely so long as they do not do anything that involves people not giving Microsoft money.
"Microsoft's new promises will benefit the broader IT community," said Vomit Togel, head of Microsoft partner Perception Management, "where 'IT community' is defined as 'Microsoft partners.' This provides remarkable opportunity for IT consultants and increased choice of us in the marketplace."
Microsoft will expand industry outreach and dialog through a new Interoperability Forum and Fee Collection Channel. In addition, an initiative will address data exchange between widely deployed bank accounts.
"Sincerity is the key," says Microsoft founder Jill Bates III. "If we can fake that, we've got it made."
Founded in 1975, Microsoft (Nasdaq MNPLY) is the worldwide dominator in software, services and solutions that make people and businesses help it realise its full potential.
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Open Source? (Score:1)
Uh, what's that you say...?
Microsoft like open source... (Score:2)
.... when it's on windows.
Don't hold your breath on them ever producing something that could run on Linux or BSD.
Interesting that this is being done in the Philippines. Not to trash Filipinos but IT isn't exactly what comes to mind from that region.
How can it be open-source and WIndows-only? (Score:1, Insightful)
I would agree, but this brings up an interesting question: how can something be open source and still be Windows only? Answer: somehow it depends on a certain Windows behaviour.
I had thought about the opposite: if I wanted to promote Linux by making an open-source killer app, what subtly devious thing could I do that would keep someone from porting it to Windows? I could rely on features in Linux, such as symbolic links, which don't really exist on
Make no mistake. (Score:5, Insightful)
Make no mistake, MS is not, and will not, become a good open source citizen. The only reason they will do something like this is to defend themselves from open source.
Do you wonder why they are doing this in the Philippines? It seems likely that Open Source/Free software is taking a hold there and Microsoft is looking to build a market. Who is going to buy MS software if it's incompatible with what they are currently using (or are in the process of moving to)? This puts Microsoft out of the game. But if they can get free software developers to do the work for them and make their projects compatible with MS software, they are suddenly an option, at which point, MS can do what they do best, which is compete and destroy.
Embrace, extend, extinguish. This is no different.
Embrace: Hey, we'll join your open source club.
Extend: Now that we're compatible, why don't you run some of our software too?
Extinguish: That software of ours that you are now reliant upon? Well, here's the new version, and it doesn't work with your open source software anymore, so pay up, junkie.
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They are doing it because the entire Philippines (population circa 91m people), has been using a single corporate licence key for XP since the day it was released (well in fact before actually, as we tend to see a lot of beta releases here even before the real product launch day).
Coupled with the fact that before the "I Love You" worm (proudly made in the Philippines), we didn't even have any hacking laws, never mind IP laws. You can still go to any shopping mall and pick up a DVD of Vista for 120 pesos (ab
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Ah, but this isn't precisely true. Reread the parent post; over the long term, Microsoft certainly could do worse than selling zero copies: dwindling mindshare. Sure, you can have an entire nation not paying for your product, but as long as they're still using it, they're still addicted to it. They want it, because they need it, and eventually this is something you might be able to pr
Interoperability Shminteroperability (Score:2, Interesting)
How is that Evolution exchange-connector working since the deal with Novell and the promise of interoperability? That's right, it isn't
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Exchange is that bad?!?!
"open source" vs Open Source (Score:2)
You can tell Microsoft is new to this... I'm pretty sure that all software from the Pacific rim is "open source", heh heh.
M$ trying to distract people away from true FOSS (Score:2, Interesting)
Open source lab? (Score:1)
In Soviet Philippines (Score:2)
Microsoft Windows is a Free Software.
smell a rat... (Score:3, Interesting)
definitely smell a rat in here... these friendliness towards OSS lately (which used to be the devil, according to ms) is puzzling. ...though it'll be interesting to see what comes out of this, right now it doesn't sound too exciting.
I can think of many instances of FOSS/MS interop. (Score:3, Insightful)
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There is no *nix about that... it was pulled from BSD.
The BSD stack is different than the Linux/Unix Stack.
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Interoperability is not Open Source vs. MS (Score:5, Informative)
There was an interesting study recently published on word processor interoperability. Here's a link to the abstact. [ssrn.com]. A download link for the full paper is there.
They found serious interoperability issues among open source programs, and serious interoperability issues among closed source programs. The best interoperability was between OpenOffice an MS Office, ironically.
This study tested two things. One test was to make a basic ODF word processing document in OpenOffice, and then check how well other programs (free and non-free) could handle that document. The other test was similar, but using an OOXML document generated by Word 2007.
Here is the conclusion from the paper:
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There are OOXML implementations whose deviations from the spec (ECMA or ISO) are as small as the deviations of OpenOffice from the ODF spec.
So, it's your choice: either there are no working OOXML implementations but also no working ODF implementations, or there are working OOXML and ODF implementations.
Wikipedia Entry (Score:1)
Überoperability (Score:3, Informative)
"One thing we have got to change in our strategy - allowing Office documents to be rendered very well by other peoples browsers is one of the most destructive things we could do to the company. We have to stop putting any effort into this and make sure that Office documents very well depends on PROPRIETARY IE capabilities."
Bill Gates, 1998, in a memo to the Office product group.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Bill_Gates#proprietary-ie-capabilities [wikiquote.org]
http://antitrust.slated.org/www.iowaconsumercase.org/011607/2000/PX02991.pdf [slated.org]
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Of course Gates would say that. He's the one who wanted to get rich selling software from the very beginning of his career, and he's viewed anyone who would give away software as free to use or modify as a hindrance to his business.
Perhaps Gates views GPL software as "tainted", much as Free Software and OSS people regard proprietary software as "tainted". Technologically, OpenDocument would have provided the time- and vendor-proof file format ideal for easy access and archival. However, I believe he pushed
Shocking!! More Off-shore development (Score:2)
Nothing like being a megacorporation that could expand operations outside of Redmond, but inside the US and moves to go to the Phillipines.
Their GDP PPP is $3,400.
My findings about MS interoperability (Score:2)
I'm happy to report that Windows is fully comaptible with upgrading to Ubuntu :-).
Heard at the labs... (Score:1)
Professor 2: What is it?
Professor 1: This code...it's like...completely readable, and they DISTRIBUTE it that way!
Professor 2: Really?!
Professor 1: Yeah, and they do it for FREE!
Professor 2: OMG no way!
But does Microsoft understand the word "share" (Score:2)
Phillipines? Open source? (Score:2)
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good stories about MS interoperability (Score:1)
We know the drill.... (Score:1)
Extend.
Extinguish.
Old systems and interoperability (Score:2)
Yeah, they should all run DOS just fine...
alien autopsy (Score:2)
Think of the "Microsoft open source lab" more like an "alien autopsy" lab than, say, Mozilla labs.
Labs (Score:1)
The M$-definition of "Interoperability" (Score:1)
No Free Beer (Score:1)