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95 comments

It sucked. (-1, Troll)

Gerafix (1028986) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691037)

It was terrible.

Re:It sucked. (-1, Troll)

Gerafix (1028986) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691201)

Narrow cinematic, shorter than a nomad, insta-troll mod because of Blizzard fanboys, lame.

Blood in the Water (1)

flitty (981864) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691161)

Sounds like Blizz is trying to silence some of the WAR talk that's been going on in the last few weeks. It will be interesting to see how they react in the few weeks after WAR launches if it does well. "free month for old subscribers" sounds about right...

Re:Blood in the Water (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24691367)

New WAR Cinematic [fileburst.com]

Re:Blood in the Water (3, Insightful)

Tridus (79566) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691579)

Sounds like they've got an expansion coming out this year and want to market it, the same as... oh... I don't know... every other game company on the planet that has a game coming out in a couple months?

Re:Blood in the Water (2, Insightful)

Bieeanda (961632) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691615)

Perhaps, but Blizzard has also released teaser cinematics for all of their games since Diablo II. MMO subscribership is not a locked-in, partisan thing either-- if WAR attracts 500,000 WOW subscribers (and that is an 'if' on the scale of Kipling's), that's no indication that any of them will stop subscribing to WOW. Likewise, while the games are similar in theme, you're more likely to see cross-pollination in new subscribers than outright competition, as newbies hear 'This sucks, I'm going back to WOW' and 'I'm sick of this, I'm going to WAR instead'.

Re:Blood in the Water (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24701249)

>>MMO subscribership is not a locked-in, partisan thing either

Actually, it really can be. Most people who are attracted to the MMO treadmill only play one at a time in order to be the "L33T." You can't be "elite" if you're playing too MMOs at one time, because they're designed to take as much time as possible.

WAAAAAR (3, Funny)

atari2600 (545988) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691665)

Blizzard could just pick up Edwin Starr's song: WAR, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing...

Re:WAAAAAR (1)

Goldberg's Pants (139800) | more than 5 years ago | (#24692931)

Say it again.

Re:WAAAAAR (1)

shivamib (1034310) | more than 5 years ago | (#24697985)

Blizzard could just pick up Igor Dolvich famous line: WAR, what is it good for?

Here, fixed it for you.

Re:WAAAAAR (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24707773)

Blizzard could just pick up Edwin Starr's song: WAR, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing...

And Mythic could pick the theme from Cannon Fodder.
WAR! Never been so much fun.

Re:Blood in the Water (1)

Puffy Director Pants (1242492) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691755)

Why? Because Blizzard is doing the same thing they did when BC came out?

Re:Blood in the Water (1)

ockegheim (808089) | more than 5 years ago | (#24746177)

As someone who mainly does BGs these days, WAR does look interesting, though I guess there's no real reason why the proportion of idiots should differ.

Oh, I have a Mac. Ah well..

Can't Wait (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24691169)

I'll be buying it.

Can't wait to play the new hero class!

I can wait. (1)

DRAGONWEEZEL (125809) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691211)

I got burned out about January. I just can't commit the kind of time it takes to play. Odly enough though I do have fun uncovering the fog of war, and the seige tanks look cool. We shall see...

Re:I can wait. (2, Interesting)

PC and Sony Fanboy (1248258) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691445)

I felt left out when blizzard switched to a mmorpg model for the warcraft story - I enjoyed war3, and I don't feel like losing my soul and social life to WoW just to find out how the story ends...

Re:I can wait. (4, Funny)

dtml-try MyNick (453562) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691577)

The story doesn't end, ever.

Although..
10 million paying customers and then suddenly a last final patch... "The destruction of Azeroth"
"Sorry guys, the story ends here, game over, you won!"

That would be awesome *eg*

Re:I can wait. (4, Interesting)

Goldberg's Pants (139800) | more than 5 years ago | (#24693011)

That'd be awesome if they did that. One thing that has always pissed me off is how nothing ever changes in the game. Those poxy gnomes have been running out of Gnomeregan for 3 goddamn years now! The big thing they did, with the pyramid things outside the cities (I completely forget what they were now) would have been awesome, except they HYPED IT UP before it happened. (And completely bollocksed it when it came out.) I think it's far better to spring huge stuff like that as a surprise. Stuff to make people say "Holy shit!" and think anything could happen. Even hardcore addicts I know begrudgingly agree with me that, despite Blizz claiming it's an "ever changing world", nothing ever changes, and it's by and large the same crap for years.

I don't know what other MMORPG's are like in regards to changing the game world. I remember Matrix Online offed Morpheus in the game. Anyone care to make a comparison? Because I like WOW (most of the time) but nothing in the world ever changes. There is no random element to it to imply a living, breathing world.

Awesome cinematic... Cool to see Sauron... I mean Arthas... (Peter Jackson has a lot to answer for.)

Re:I can wait. (1)

Tridus (79566) | more than 5 years ago | (#24693535)

Sometimes stuff changes. Shattrah City changed over the course of Burning Crusade, with NPCs moving, others changing factions as new ones formed, etc. Some stuff is also changing for the new expansion, like Dalaran and Naxxramus both leaving old world and going to Northrend.

In general you're right, stuff doesn't change a lot. They do that because they still have new people coming to the game, and how would a new person run Gnomeregan for the first time if it was taken back over by the Gnomes?

Re:I can wait. (2, Insightful)

snuf23 (182335) | more than 5 years ago | (#24695539)

Come on really now. It's time Gnomeregan was taken back by the gnomes. I can't stand that place.

Re:I can wait. (1)

Walkingshark (711886) | more than 5 years ago | (#24698447)

how would a new person run Gnomeregan for the first time if it was taken back over by the Gnomes?

Caves of time my friend.

Re:I can wait. (1)

Phyvo (876321) | more than 5 years ago | (#24707889)

So you expect level 30ishes to make a run through Tanaris to complete their quests?

You are a cruel, cruel person.

Re:I can wait. (1)

happydays (1333825) | more than 5 years ago | (#24704451)

A long time ago when I played Asherons Call I remember there being huge world events, like the pvp God entering the world turning all the water to blood until he was killed, and once he got killed he didn't respawn and only one player recivied his loot. Of other memorable stuff there was a meteor crash which destroyed one of the excisting cities, and an invasion of shadows.

All those things had in commen was that I never personally saw any of it (except for the red water), and while I personally found it interesting to read about on webpages I'm sure a lot of people were unhappy never getting to see it. Perhaps that is why Blizzard have chosen another direction, and they're hardly the only MMO company to do this.

Interestingly Anarchy Online had similar events, and even had GM run quests for small groups of random people - and as far as I know Age of Conan doesn't. Which seems to suggest that perhaps the "living" world isn't as popular as it would have to be before Blizzard took it seriously.

As for gnomeregan, I agree it's about time the gnomes got their city back - but then again - it'd take quite a lot of work to create the capitol of the gnomes and that's deveolment time which would come out of creating new content.

Re:I can wait. (4, Interesting)

edremy (36408) | more than 5 years ago | (#24694107)

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they *do* do this someday.

WoW is not going to last forever- looking at the player growth curves it's been leveling off for a while. Someday, eventually, it will begin to decline no matter how many expansion packs they manage to make. Lots of MMOs keep running at this point- you can survive with 10k subscibers if you don't bother with new content.

But WoW could be different: Blizz is smart enough that they should have something ready to go when this happens- World of Starcraft, WoW2 in a new area, something. Once that game starts off the ground, announce end of life for vintage WoW in six months time. Script an invasion of horrible baddies and follow through, with various zones falling to them while the horde and alliance frantically try to hold on. Make it so defended areas fall more slowly and let players see how long they can hold out, then burn Ironforge and Org a few days before turning off all the servers.

Follow that up with some free play time on The Next Great MMO for existing WoW players, maybe some sort of character transfer where you can move a "child" of your toon to the new world if it's WoW2.

You would have *legions* of retired players come back for this- most of the folks who have left WoW were just bored with the same old content, and frankly watching the sand castle get kicked down would be great fun. Get them excited again, get a ton of quick cash, give the players a reason to move to TNGMMO and not your competitor's and get rid of all your legacy support issues in one huge ball of fun.

Re:I can wait. (1)

Walkingshark (711886) | more than 5 years ago | (#24698465)

Even if they did something like this, they would open up "legacy" servers with unchanging (except for bug fixes) content so that new people could play. There's too much content there that could be potentially generating revenue without having much cost other than maitenance of the servers.

Re:I can wait. (2, Interesting)

Mythranax (970659) | more than 5 years ago | (#24699931)

Dramatic narrative needs to be finite, otherwise there is no catharsis. MMORPG's need to get rid of the die/respawn mechanics, which turn them from finely crafted story environments, into a point scoring system.

Character, and drama are about the mortality, and finitude of plot, setting, and character.

Until MMORPG's implement character mortality, they will be inflationary, grinding, point scoring systems.

I know the common objection is, 'nobody will play a game where they put months into a character, only have them die, and have to start over.'

The obvious exception to this argument, would be the paper and dice RPG's where character mortality tended to be the rule.

From a game mechanics, physical realism perspective, death is rarely instantaneous, even from potentially mortal wounds, with a few exceptions.

Mitigating the finality of dying can be built in to the game environment, allowing PC's and NPC's to give aid to mortally wounded characters. Death by lag, and technical mishap can be arbitrated while 'in game' the character lies on their deathbed. A 'final judgement' scenario, in game.

Inheritance and allegiance systems can be built into games to allow character legacy to retain time spent.

PVP griefers can be handled by implementing account karma, which when positively or negatively accumulated, limits or allows varied options for character creation, and character legacy.

There are a wide range of possibilities for implementing a mortality rules MMORPG. It just hasn't been done, given the historical hysteria about the notion of someone 'loosing the lvl 100' character they spent months/years leveling.

The problem with that perspective is that 'level 100' characters are themselves a symptom of the inflationary game mechanics. Overpowered characters, superabundant and deadly NPC's and creatures, all built into a game to accommodate the undying locusts of PC gamer types raping the richly detailed story environment for LEET loot, whose value is flash, and point mods.

There are few famous player characters, the only 'celebrated' MMORPG 'player character' (Leeroy Jenkins), is ironically someone who committed a hilarious kamikaze spoiler on a pent up in game raid. A perfect example of how mortality serves to highlight character.

For story to 'happen' characters have to die, PC's, and NPC's, the world has to be subject to change, the basis for story, and drama; in human experience to date, is mortality, and the permanent change it implies.

To suspend mortality from a story medium, and then be chagrined that the story is weak and uninviting shouldn't surprise anyone.

The cynical argument I find most persuasive for why a real, story based MMO will never have mass appeal, is that there is an expectation of a certain well edited literary style, among fans of a genre. The wide range of literacy and imagination, or lack thereof, of players (in the current market), will always end up spawning worlds where some PC's try (badly) to speak like they fell out of a shakespear play, and others, spurning the affectation speak colloquially, or worse.

Stories, real ones, that are enjoyable to read, are subject to editing. Building an MMO environment where an editorial standard is enforced is more a cultural challenge than a technical one.

Personally I'm hoping to someday see a real story driven MMO environment, with a mortality based system of game mechanics, but the level grinding MMO's are killing the enjoyment and viability; possibly for a generation, of MMO's as cinematically driven story environments. Despite the best efforts of game writers and artists to create compelling story elements, the programming and business logic dictate the games remain fundamentally inflationary point scoring systems.

Re:For story to 'happen' characters have to die... (1)

phildem (1349631) | more than 5 years ago | (#24710263)

Aristotle's Poetic's right ? Sympathetic characters have to be done away with in order to create interest from the audience ? The purging of human pathos via the externalization of the real forms of drama in human life. Yes the MMORPGs' are lacking this dimension, but I question whether or not the medium lends itself to any kind of meaningful dramatic narrative. The chorus of consumer idiots always present, tends to muck up any attempts to deliver dramatic content.

Re:I can wait. (1)

Phyvo (876321) | more than 5 years ago | (#24710923)

While your points about MMO mortality are interesting, I do have several objections.
Firstly, pen and paper RPGs, while less niche now than they used to be, simply don't have the appeal that MMOs do. You seem to want what simply amounts to, ironically, a completely RP focused MMORPG, and you also want players to make up a lot of the story. I am not being cynical when I say that this forces the game to be niche.

How many people read books as compared to writing them? Make movies as opposed to watching them? Make games as opposed to playing them? Make their own RP characters as opposed to playing an RPG where the characters are already laid out? It is a fact that the creation of art is always done by a fewer number of people than the consumption of art. Creating art is *hard*, appreciating it is easy, so if you restrict your MMO to people who create art than you're automatically removing your chances at mass appeal.

This is the dilemma then. Does the company try to create the content while keeping everyone satisfied on their treadmills? Or do you kill the mass appeal of your MMO by forcing your players to create their own content, because most people want to read stories, not write them? The closest answer to this question is Spore, but Spore, being a single-player game with user-generated content, is the exact opposite of an MMO. Not only does it give the players the tools to create their own content but it lets them take *any* content from the other players that they want and use it. MMOs can't possibly allow this amount of freedom because they have to exist in a single, cohesive world. People would always be creating content *in the hopes of* it getting picked, either by popular vote or by editorial notice, to become part of the game. Anything not picked falls by the wayside, at the very best becoming an option in a menu somewhere, something which you can use when you hang out with your friends.

Still, the idea of harnessing user generated content for an MMO doesn't seem completely implausible. I think it would be worth investigating even if it wasn't stories in particular that players were creating.

Er, onto another point.

Your solution to PvP griefing seems to have issues. For one, unless one of those options that could get restricted is PvP, there's nothing preventing people from not doing anything but PvP griefing. Moreover, if you have a way to tell if someone is griefing or not such that you can restrict their options in a fair manner, why bother restricting options instead of restricting griefing? Moreover, I'm not sure that it's even necessary, since so long as your players can and do take up arms against the griefers your open PvP system with permanent character mortality will perhaps fix itself.

But, the fact is that no matter your griefing controls permanent player mortality alone will kill mass appeal. You may be used to death from Pen and Paper RPGs, but most people don't want to have to adapt to unplanned death, and unplanned death is unsurprisingly unfriendly to new players. Seriously. You just got the new player to step into the avatar's shoes. Then you kill the avatar. Can you blame them for thinking, "What's the point?"

Though you have some interesting points, I just have a really hard time imagining what exactly your story-driven MMO is supposed to be. Each of the few things you have stated are things that, if you implemented them in a MMO which is otherwise WoW-like, would only help to kill it. Perhaps that would be because the WoW-like crowd is a bunch of philistines, but I can't imagine how the replacement crowd would be more than a tiny minority.

That's how I felt, but I bought it anyway. (1)

DRAGONWEEZEL (125809) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691887)

Grats to you for holding out. I lost a ton of time to that game. Granted much of it was fun, and I really enjoyed PvP, but the grind (read raiding)just got to be more hell than it was worth. I think I got turned off when I went through Kara for the first time, and the Raid leader wouldn't quit. I held off on Kara for as long as I could. I helped my guild by donating supplies and money, not raiding as I often didn't have consecutive hrs to dedicate to gaming.

Anyhoo It was a full press w/ a 1/2 ubergeared and 1/2 undergeared party. I left that feeling excited, tired, and full. As in my appetite for the next best thing (in WoW)was finally satiated. Then I played UT3 and Crysis for a while, and now I play just a touch of TF2, but 4 hrs / week for games combined right now.

Re:I can wait. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24692751)

Rumor has it Blizzard doesn't consider WoW story development as canon.

wrong king (4, Funny)

philspear (1142299) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691243)

I want the "wrath of the lion king" That's what I originally read and was very excited. Now I'm back to dissapointment.

Re:wrong king (1)

Joe the Lesser (533425) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691787)

SIMBAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

Re:wrong king (2, Funny)

joejor (578266) | more than 5 years ago | (#24692531)

SIMBAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

... JENKINS!!!!!!

ok, slashdot's allcaps filter wouldn't just let me post the JENKINS so i'm doing the lame thing and explaining that i'm referencing Leroy Jenkins. sigh

Re:another wrong king (1)

datadood (184067) | more than 5 years ago | (#24693233)

SIMBAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

I believe that should be

KIMBAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

Re:wrong king (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24701671)

...or "Wrath of the licking"...oh, wait, that's a different trailer altogether...ahem.

It Was Great - But It Wasn't "Amazing" (3, Insightful)

Petersko (564140) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691303)

The cinematics for Diablo were amazing. The ones for Starcraft were wonderful - I still get a chill watching the "funeral" sequence. The first one for Warcraft III blew the curve again. They always had a lock on terrific art and technical achievement.

The first two thirds of this new cinematic was just, "Pretty, but... common". The last third pulled it out, and it's once again great. They aren't leading the pack by a large margin anymore though. The available technology has leveled the playing field. They'll have to step up.

Re:It Was Great - But It Wasn't "Amazing" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24691411)

Which one was the "funeral" sequence? A quick search of youtube came up empty.

Re:It Was Great - But It Wasn't "Amazing" (2, Informative)

Petersko (564140) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691457)

Here you go. [youtube.com]

Re:It Was Great - But It Wasn't "Amazing" (1)

dontPanik (1296779) | more than 5 years ago | (#24693477)

I get the feeling that they weren't trying really hard with this trailer.
When they made trailers for Diablo and Starcraft, they were trying to sell games. For Wrath of the Lich King they don't really need to sell the game, because people are going to buy it anyways.
For example this trailer doesn't even really show what the game is about. IMO this trailer was just to make the existing WoW players even more rabid (and it suceeded :D).

Re:It Was Great - But It Wasn't "Amazing" (1)

Tridus (79566) | more than 5 years ago | (#24693561)

Far as I know this is going to be the opening of the game, IE its the one you see on first run after you install it.

So yeah, its not trying to sell the game to new people. Its for the people who are buying it.

Re:It Was Great - But It Wasn't "Amazing" (1)

Dr.Boje (1064726) | more than 5 years ago | (#24693895)

The first two thirds of this new cinematic was just, "Pretty, but... common". The last third pulled it out, and it's once again great.

For a three-minute-long cinematic, I find that statement to be misguided. You need to judge the cinematic as a whole. What that statement basically says to me is that every scene that is not packed with action is "common". Interesting. Let's just ignore the incredible graphics and eerie music for a second and focus on the story presented in this cinematic (which is quite short).

Yes, the first half to two-thirds of the movie aren't packed with action, but that is often the case with storytelling. Usually you have your introduction, development, climax, and resolution, but in this case you have the introduction, which is intertwined with the development, and then the climax (which is the "good part" from your perspective). The first half builds up to the "good part" and, because of that, it makes that part much more worthwhile.

To contrast this a little bit, I also watched the Warhammer Online cinematic (http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/home/flash/WAR_cinematic_08.html [fileburst.com] ). This one has about a minute-long introduction, then the rest is just action with a climactic part at the end (where this dragon bursts through the gate). To be honest, this one became boring rather quickly and the climax was not as strong as it could have been. The graphics are great and each scene is presented well, but the story doesn't develop nicely. The transition from the introduction to the action part starts off nicely, but after about thirty seconds or so you realize that it has plateaued and doesn't really go anywhere until the climax. They keep showing these different combat situations between characters the viewer doesn't have any attachment to and then they slow the action for a few seconds before the climax, which fails to deliver. The problem is that the action was already at a pretty high point, so the climax didn't have much room to increase in intensity.

I have to go ahead and give the nod to WOTLK as the better cinematic of the two.

Re:It Was Great - But It Wasn't "Amazing" (1)

Petersko (564140) | more than 5 years ago | (#24694343)

"For a three-minute-long cinematic, I find that statement to be misguided. You need to judge the cinematic as a whole."

Actually, that's exactly what I did. See the text you quoted, where I said the trailer was great.

My point was that what they are offering isn't eclipsing the competition like it used to.

Remember this one from 1999? [youtube.com] The "wow" factor of that one is far greater than that of this new trailer.

Re:It Was Great - But It Wasn't "Amazing" (1)

Dr.Boje (1064726) | more than 5 years ago | (#24696469)

Actually, that's exactly what I did. See the text you quoted, where I said the trailer was great.

I disagree. You broke the cinematic into two parts: the first two thirds and the last third. The distinction you make is that the prior is "common" and the latter is "once again great". The distinction in the cinematic itself between your two parts is when Arthas unleashes the undead dragon and the army below is shown. That leads me to believe that the difference to you is the boring 'Arthas walking around Northrend' half versus the exciting 'undead dragon breaks free and flies over the undead army below' half.

What I'm saying is that you need to look at the first half as a precursor to the second half. The second half might stand well on its own, but it is much more effective with the first half preceding it. For example, if you read a well-written novel, you (hopefully) wouldn't think lesser of it because the only exciting part was when the protagonist killed the bad guy. The way you've described your opinion of the cinematic is akin to thinking lesser of the aforementioned novel because the introduction wasn't exciting enough. It's an introduction -- it's not meant to be action packed, although it certainly can be. Granted, the two mediums are drastically different in terms of length, but the concept still applies. Even in the War3 cinematic the action splices in the introduction are short (and this again intertwines the introduction with the development).

With that said, I have to agree that the War3 cinematic is more enticing than the WOTLK cinematic. However, to perhaps offer some reason why "what they are offering isn't eclipsing the competition like it used to", I believe the WOTLK cinematic was directed more towards their current player base, as opposed to attracting new players (at 10 million I hope they don't think they need more players). In addition, we are only talking about one cinematic here, so it is not entirely representative of "what they are offering". If you watch the original WoW cinematic (URL:http://media.worldofwarcraft.com/movies/video_loader/wow_video.htm?vid=wow-intro_en&dir=movies/wow_intro&rating=wow), you will probably find it to be quite enticing, as it was geared towards attracting consumers.

Well, enough rambling from me. I hope I've explained myself clearly enough. I'll see you all in the Duke Nukem Forever official cinematic thread.

Re:It Was Great - But It Wasn't "Amazing" (1)

Wyrd01 (761346) | more than 5 years ago | (#24703617)

This Warcraft cinematic was okay, but another was released just ahead of this one and I think it is a much more compelling video.

The Official opening cinematic for WarHammer Online:
http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/home/flash/WAR_cinematic_08.html [fileburst.com]

Warcraft Cinematic (4, Insightful)

GearheadX (414240) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691307)

Previous trailers for WoW have been longer than this and showcased a bunch of different classes looking awesome.. but I daresay neither of them have been as awesome as this. This is the first serious Warcraft trailer I've seen for this game.

It focuses attention directly on the central figure of this expansion: Arthas the Lich King.

Arthas is your problem. Arthas is the central figure of the conflict. No matter who you are, your entry into this expansion's content will immediately involve Arthas meeting you at the front door and welcoming you to your untimely demise.

I love it.

Re:Warcraft Cinematic (1)

DeadManCoding (961283) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691339)

What will be even more fun is beating the crap out of him and taking Frostmourne. Now there's an achievement.

Re:Warcraft Cinematic (1)

PC and Sony Fanboy (1248258) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691403)

Yeah, until everyone has a frostmourne (and turn into lich kings?).

Of course, blizzard will have some plot device that shatters the sword or something..

Re:Warcraft Cinematic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24691541)

Yeah, until everyone has a frostmourne (and turn into lich kings?).

Of course, blizzard will have some plot device that shatters the sword or something..

Lets not forget their last lore change: Goats from space.

http://lorelol.ytmnd.com/

Re:Warcraft Cinematic (1)

the kostya (1277822) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691991)

Yeah, until everyone has a frostmourne

I don't see that many people with Illidan's glaives. I suspect that this will also be an item that drops like 2.5% of the time or whatever on the final boss of one of the hardest raids in the game.

Re:Warcraft Cinematic (1)

Huntr (951770) | more than 5 years ago | (#24692297)

No matter who you are, your entry into this expansion's content will immediately involve Arthas meeting you at the front door and welcoming you to your untimely demise.

That's not true. If you roll a Deathknight, yes, but for people just hitting Northrend, you don't really interact with Arthas. You catch glimpses of him here and there, but not in any meaningful way.

Re:Warcraft Cinematic (4, Informative)

jeffasselin (566598) | more than 5 years ago | (#24692519)

You haven't done the same quests I have. In Borean Tundra, specifically, the quest line leading to "Last Rites" is very, very good. In Howling Ford, you can also meet the Lich King and get killed by him in your 3rd quest or about. And he speaks to you in meaningful ways.

Re:Warcraft Cinematic (1)

Huntr (951770) | more than 5 years ago | (#24694939)

Well, I'm 73, have done most of the quests in Howling Fjord and a lot in Borean Tundra (I'm on that line of quests with Last Rites), so I was thinking that I was kind of past "the front door." I didn't mean that you never see him or interact with him, only that he's not right in your face as soon as you step off the boat. In fact, I did a quest series in HF where he appeared at the end of the quest line. Its very different for a Deathknight, where Arthas is the quest giver for the opening quests. That's all I meant. :)

Re:Warcraft Cinematic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24701681)

I don't get it, what did you see in this trailer that I didn't. I thought it was one of the dullest most boring cinematics I have seen in a long time as does every one of my friends that has seen it so far. Was a huge let down.

Please Blizzard, stop it. (2, Funny)

dtml-try MyNick (453562) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691387)

I have to hand it to Blizzard, their trailers are always of such awesome quality.

It instantly made me want to renew my account again. Must.... resist.....

Please Blizzard, stop doing this to me!

Re:Please Blizzard, stop it. (1)

alexgieg (948359) | more than 5 years ago | (#24692095)

It instantly made me want to renew my account again. Must.... resist.....

One good thing about living here in Brazil is that our summer happens around Christmas. If Blizzard releases the expansion before that I'm surely going to be a very happy re-subscriber for at least two and half months of college vacation, three weeks of which will also be job vacation. :-D

Plain .torrent? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24691475)

Anyone have the plain .torrent for this? I can't seem to get the downloader going under Wine (it runs, but doesn't do much).

Re:Plain .torrent? (5, Interesting)

skeeto (1138903) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691697)

downloadPatches.sh [dbservice.com] - shell script that extracts the torrent files from all Blizzard Downloader clients in the current directory
extorrents [progenitus.com] - Perl script that extracts the torrent files from all Blizzard Downloader clients in the current directory
biz-extorrents.py [pastebin.com] - Python script to extract torrent files from all Blizzard Downloader clients in the current directory
web app extractor [craftymind.com] - Web app to extract torrent files out of any Blizzard Downloader EXE linked online

Source [wowwiki.com]

Re:Plain .torrent? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24694621)

http://www.jmccaffrey.net/torrent_dl/get_blizzard_torrent.php

is one that I made, simply gives you a torrent download for a downloader exe link.

Not the only big MMO trailer this week. (1)

Vohar (1344259) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691483)

Well if MMO cinematics are making headlines... http://mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/home/flash/WAR_cinematic_08.html [fileburst.com] Warhammer's got a new one out too.

Re:Not the only big MMO trailer this week. (1)

ilovegeorgebush (923173) | more than 5 years ago | (#24693223)

That video sucks. It doesn't buffer so you have to wait for it to fully load otherwise it jolts. Noobs ja!

Re:Not the only big MMO trailer this week. (1)

Vohar (1344259) | more than 5 years ago | (#24694385)

*shrug* Loads fine for me.

Re:Not the only big MMO trailer this week. (1)

ilovegeorgebush (923173) | more than 5 years ago | (#24694501)

Finally loaded and I take what I said back. Great video.

Re:Not the only big MMO trailer this week. (1)

Walkingshark (711886) | more than 5 years ago | (#24698663)

... uh, that was way fucking better than the WOW one. See, it actually made me want to play the game instead of being like, "Oh wow it looks like Arthas has a Nightbane Urn too..."

Sigh (3, Interesting)

atari2600 (545988) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691565)

I quit playing WoW earlier this year (early March) and I must say that life's been great since. I wasn't a raider (but was doing arenas hardcore) but I fell victim to what's called "Altitis". I found that taking characters to 70 was fun and fast and pretty soon I ended up with four level 70s and two level 60s (61 and 62) when I quit.

So when Blizzard brought out new daily quests or new festival events, I felt compelled (OC ftl) to do every quest on every alt - needless to say that stupidity (or OC again) burned me out. Now I am doing a lot more with my "free" time. I am hoping that the expansion won't make me renew my account or somehow magically I'd be busy playing Fable2, Alan Wake and Fallout3 that I won't notice WoW. I only need to hold myself together till SC2 or Diablo3 comes out at which point resistance will be futile :(

Should've stuck to playing Riverraid or Pitfall :O

Re:Sigh (1)

An ominous Cow art (320322) | more than 5 years ago | (#24692321)

My WoW-playing was/is somewhat similar. I don't have any interest in PvP or raids. I did enjoy playing each class and learning the tactics, talents, techniques, etc of each one (within the parameters of their specializations). I have 4 70s and 5 in the 60-64 range, and these days I only occasionally log in and dust one off and do a quest or two. I'll probably play more once WotLK comes out - unless WHO takes me away completely...

Re:Sigh (1)

RichMan (8097) | more than 5 years ago | (#24692759)

Pretty much the same here.

Playing GuildWars now. It is old and cheap and no monthly expense so I feel very free to walk away for a bit and go back.

Neat looking world and story. Sure not latest graphics but the art design of the world looks good.

Re:Sigh (0, Flamebait)

QuadEddie (459328) | more than 5 years ago | (#24694383)

Grow a spine. People who are sucked into WoW are glorified poop machines.

Re:Sigh (1)

snuf23 (182335) | more than 5 years ago | (#24695987)

In terms of what is consistently manufactured by human beings, all people are glorified poop machines.

Re:Sigh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24700265)

Ebay your toons, problem solved.

No, I haven't summoned up the courage to do that to my 4 70s :(

Re:Sigh (1)

Mushukyou (739593) | more than 5 years ago | (#24701189)

Just get ready for Darkfall Online. It's going to be the WoW killer. In fact, no other MMORPG will be able to touch it until Mortal Online comes out in some years. But Darkfall should be coming out by the end of this year after YEARS of making it. They were the fans of early UO. Anyhow, I'd bet $5 it's not gonna be a flop like that crap that just came out and flopped. It's going to be better than Warhammer as well I'm sure.

Unimpressed (2, Interesting)

zyl0x (987342) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691567)

It was really just a bunch of ice. Didn't really hold a flame to the videos embedded in Warcraft III. Maybe it has something to do with them just rehashing "the grind"? I mean, besides Arthas, what does the expansion really have going for it, story-wise? There's nothing else to really show off in a trailer. Yes, this comment is littered with personal opinion. I just never understood games that had no story to them.

Re:Unimpressed (2, Interesting)

Thyamine (531612) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691695)

Actually the storyline is quite expansive in Warcraft. The problem is translating that into a MMORPG game without making it into more grinding just with different guys. I think it plays much better in the original gameplay, but maybe someday someone will come up with something better to replace grinding.

Re:Unimpressed (2, Insightful)

zyl0x (987342) | more than 5 years ago | (#24691881)

Oh I know all about the potential for story in the Warcraft universe. You nailed the problem; it's an MMORPG. If you ask me, they already came up with something better than grinding. Warcraft I through III were brilliant, fun games. I suspect the problem now is simply a matter of greed. Quality, one-purchase games such as Warcraft III are - while highly successful - not the money-making machines that the ex-EQ developers and managers want, so they don't make them anymore. It's even more depressing that so many people play these games. As consumers, it's really our fault.

Re:Unimpressed (2, Insightful)

FiveRings (818409) | more than 5 years ago | (#24692695)

Oh I know all about the potential for story in the Warcraft universe. You nailed the problem; it's an MMORPG. If you ask me, they already came up with something better than grinding. Warcraft I through III were brilliant, fun games. I suspect the problem now is simply a matter of greed. Quality, one-purchase games such as Warcraft III are - while highly successful - not the money-making machines that the ex-EQ developers and managers want, so they don't make them anymore. It's even more depressing that so many people play these games. As consumers, it's really our fault.

It seems that you're so anti-MMO that you're not seeing the whole picture. Blizzard, alone, has StarCraft2 and Diablo3 in the works, likely funded by WoW money. I would hope those fall under your "quality, one-purchase games" category?

Re:Unimpressed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24691707)

I just never understood games that had no story to them.

You don't have to understand them unless you're in the target audience. They're shallow and unengaging because they appeal to people with shallow interests who don't want to put a lot of effort into a video game. You can sit down, shut off your brain, and start hitting the same few keys on your keyboard for hours on end to "accomplish" something.

I'll grant that I'm not willing to pay $15 a month for such drool-inducing fare, but it does have its appeal after a long hard day at work when your brain is just too worn out to appreciate complex dialog, puzzles, or plot devices (I prefer Unreal Tournament games for mindless video game entertainment because I don't have to pay a monthly fee).

Re:Unimpressed (1)

snuf23 (182335) | more than 5 years ago | (#24696035)

"they appeal to people with shallow interests who don't want to put a lot of effort into a video game"

By this comment I can see that you have never played the game to any real degree.

Re:Unimpressed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24698601)

No, I haven't played to "any real degree", because around level 40, and the 100th or so "go kill X and bring my N bits of Y from the body" quest, I got entirely fed up and quit. Then I came back long enough to get to 47 when they sped up leveling, then I quit after 2 months. Then I came back long enough to get to 60 and I refuse to buy the expansion just to repeat the same tired crap to 70 over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and... you get the point.

Lie to yourself all you want, MMOGs, including WoW, are not complicated. They require next to no strategy, they require next to no puzzle ability, the dialogue is mediocre - if it's lucky - and the storyline, if one exists, isn't exactly a shining example of literary accomplishment.

They're dumb entertainment. They make their money by offering simplistic "challenges" that reward people quickly and repeatedly as a hook (the exception being the larger instances which award people with OCD). There are video games out there that have strong stories, challenging puzzles, and complicated strategy. World of Warcraft is not one of those games. WoW is to gaming as FHM is to literature, and it's rather obvious to anybody who's actually played it.

It's all well and good that you like the game, and that's fine. I enjoy it myself until I get tired of doing the same things over and over again. In fact, I like lots of thoughtless entertainment. However, I'm not going to try and convince anybody that I'm challenging myself in any way when I plop down in front of the boob tube with a beer and flip on Family Guy.

Re:Unimpressed (1)

snuf23 (182335) | more than 5 years ago | (#24700075)

For the standard quests sure I agree with you. The high end raid content requires considerably more skill. Particularly in terms of coordination of multiple players. This is the one area where MMOs are more sophisticated than other games. Learning the coordination in a 25 man raid event is considerably more challenging than having a beer and watching TV.
if all you are looking for is a single player RPG experience than you are correct, WoW is a shallow one. If you stuck around for long enough you would find that the "massively multiplayer" portion of the game is actually quite different. It is a gaming experience you can only have in a MMO and generally the one area where they shine.

Re:Unimpressed (4, Insightful)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | more than 5 years ago | (#24692005)

Off the top of my head (I'm level 73 or 74 in the beta):
  • Arthas
  • The Cult of the Damned infiltrating an Alliance town
  • Malygos, and his assault on magic
  • The Ashbringer
  • The continuation of Tirion Fordring's story
  • The evolution of the Scarlet Crusade
  • The continuation of the Infinite Dragonflight story (including the revelation of who their leader is)

...and that's just off the top of my head. WoW is chock full of story, you just have to pay attention. If all you really bother knowing about the story is what boss you're killing (which is all most players do), you've missed 80% of the story.

Re:Unimpressed (1)

Lostlander (1219708) | more than 5 years ago | (#24692309)

I was going to go into a big shpiel about how if anyone bothered to stop and read quest dialogs from time to time they might experience a bit of the lore in WoW but /shrug what you said works better.

Re:Unimpressed (3, Insightful)

dave562 (969951) | more than 5 years ago | (#24692701)

The quest dialogues are well written. I think that the horde quest lines are better written and more well integrated with the world. My only big gripe is that since I haven't been playing the game since it first came out, a lot of the quest lines just kind of die. You level up to 58 and then head to Outland. Or you level up to around 60 and find that all of the quest lines disappear into prior "end-game" instances that nobody is running anymore. So if you really do read the quest lines like I do, you get to the point where you are ready to go fight some major badguys that have been built up in one way or another since level 1, and.... ooops, no nachos for you.

Blizzard didn't pay attention to continuity.. (1)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 5 years ago | (#24709159)

a lot of the quest lines just kind of die. You level up to 58 and then head to Outland. Or you level up to around 60 and find that all of the quest lines disappear into prior "end-game" instances that nobody is running anymore.

Ironically, you're answering someone else's complaint about "unchanging world environment". The truth is blizzard does change it with the expacks, which demark "campaigns" as in a war.

you had the battles at the dark portal before bc, which were won, and azeroth's forces pushed into outland.

Those quest lines ended because that stage in the conflict was over. This is where blizzard screwed up though. They didn't go back and morph the previous world's quest lines to fit in with their recent storyline revisions.

This doesn't mean they had to remove the old-world raids. They could be ongoing areas of resistance which have to be periodically quashed like certain areas of the middle east.

The main quest lines though need to lead toward the dark portal and integrate with outland, and eventually northrend.

This would obviously be much better seamlessly integrating the expansions into the game, and reselling it as one unit under a new price, but this kind of thing is not necessary to achieve what i'm laying out.

Instances (1)

dontPanik (1296779) | more than 5 years ago | (#24693585)

It always annoys me when I'm running an instance for the first time, and I go slowly and try to understand all of the quest dialogue and try to talk to all the NPCs so I can understand the reason for the instance, but my group is just rushing through because it's the millionth time they've run it.

Re:Unimpressed (1)

VickiM (920888) | more than 5 years ago | (#24695593)

To be fair, the story is still rather pointless. Sure, it may be interesting, but this is an MMORPG. Nothing I do will ever change anything. How many times will you kill Arthas before you realize that the story, while interesting, is as important as the flavor text on a Magic card? The story is pretty much just padding for the grind.

I do like a good story. But I don't keep re-reading the last 10 pages of a book over and over again hoping a purple will come flying out.

Re:Unimpressed (1)

Walkingshark (711886) | more than 5 years ago | (#24698727)

I'm most interested in seeing the next parts of the Uldum/Creation of the Dwarves/Creation of the World story.

Re:Unimpressed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24701433)

>>WoW is chock full of story, you just have to pay attention.

And Raid. I loved WoW. I played it up until I had all my "tier 0" blue gear and had to go to Molten Core to continue the game. Which I did, and after doing one raid (with a very adept group, none the less) I quit. I kept waiting for them to come out with more "solo" play stuff. (Yes, PvP is still a "guild raid" if you want any chance at all.) Never happened. Once I got tricked when they released the World quest in bug country. But that was still raiding.

I played BC when it came out, up until people started doing Mideve's tower. Then I quit again.

There's a lot of brilliant content in that game, and some fun but scarce story. But be prepared to raid or be excluded from 95% of the "new" content they put out in patches, and all of the most "Epic" story lines.

PS. one time while complaining on the boards, a dev actually responded. He said "Raids" were more "epic", and that's why they have them. I said "Really, cause I seem to remember in epics like Beowulf, he single handedly slew the monsters. I don't remember him bringing his army along while he shouted out phase commands and swore at the guy who ran into the eggs"

Re:Unimpressed (2, Funny)

Negatyfus (602326) | more than 5 years ago | (#24692221)

You never understood games like Mario Bros., Tetris, Galaxy Wars, Arkanoid, etc.?

Re:Unimpressed (3, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 5 years ago | (#24692739)

It was really just a bunch of ice. Didn't really hold a flame to the videos embedded in Warcraft III. Maybe it has something to do with them just rehashing "the grind"?

The grind is quite simply for people that play too much. I figure most of these have content enough for a single-player game, but what addict plays any such game 8 hrs/day * 250 days/year = 2000 hours? He'd burn through every single player game I know like a crisp being done in a few weeks. Maybe if they paid 100$/mo (2x50$ single player games) they could hire enough people to keep up but the market would vanish. So they make the end game like a tar pit, the further into it you get the slower you move. There is no end, there is no ultimate victory. If you grind like craxy to reach it anyway, I'd say that's your mental problem and not WoWs.

Re:Unimpressed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24693811)

So they make the end game like a tar pit, the further into it you get the slower you move.

This is City of Heroes. Game had some of the best concepts in any mmo, and probably still does, but the curve once you hit level 15-20 was ri-di-cu-lous. Especially with the lack of "items," it just dragged.

Re:Unimpressed (1)

snuf23 (182335) | more than 5 years ago | (#24696779)

If you thought 15-20 was bad.... 40-50 was unbelievable. I did it once on CoH but I could never stomach getting a villain higher than 41.

Re:Unimpressed and pointless (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24702127)

The grind is quite simply for people that play too much.

And sadly, many of these people who "play too much" get bored and resort to griefing the casuals.

Don't get me wrong, PvP *can* be fun, but when you have a group of 5+ people with no lives (and therefore full Season N gear or Tier (2*N) gear) repeatedly killing any and everybody who's trying to quest for hours on end, well it ceases to be fun.

So the casuals become fodder for the no-lifes.

And dont' get me started on non-PvP servers. Blizz loves to charge you $25 per character to xfer over. Not my fault they couldn't figure a balance between PvP and PvE on a PvP realm.

Meh they had so many opportunities to make PvP right and even introduce some RPG elements along with it (like say a "scent of death" debuff where town guards will throw you out if you've been on a killing spree, vendors will charge you more money or not deal with you, etc).

But atleast I hear it isnt' as bad as EVE Online ^_^

Watching the trailer... (1)

Puffy Director Pants (1242492) | more than 5 years ago | (#24694443)

Well, it's ok. It's good enough, but not as good as the original WOW trailer or the Burning Crusade one. I found it impressive, but lacking in the flavor/story of the others.

Very pretty but... (1)

Pvt_Waldo (459439) | more than 5 years ago | (#24697823)

...what's it got to do with the game? Is there really anything in there (beyond a "mood") that should make me want to play it? Show me game footage and I'll get interested.

Meh... (1)

humbro (1227756) | more than 5 years ago | (#24702015)

It looks nice, but it didn't send a shiver down my spine like the first two did. Not to mention it is a painful reminder that all my gear could again be obsolete. I think I will say no more, least I portray myself as a bitter husk of a human that was beaten up by a bunch of insolent adolescents last time the level cap was raised...

Ahem. As I was saying... Shiny is good, shivering is excellent.
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