East Coast Broadband Fastest In USA 363
Death Metal Maniac writes "The study, which was conducted by affordable-broadband advocacy group Speed Matters, found that the nine states with the fastest median download connections are all located on the East Coast. Rhode Island (6.8Mbps) and Delaware (6.7Mbps) have the fastest, and nearly triple the national median download speed of 2.3Mbps. Rounding out the Top 5 states are New Jersey (5.8Mbps), Virginia (5Mbps) and Massachusetts (4.6Mbps)."
geh (Score:5, Interesting)
That's nice.
Meanwhile, as of last week, we STILL cannot buy FIOS in Philadelphia. No matter how much I want to give Verizon my money, they just won't take it.
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That's because FIOS requires major infrastructure upgrades on the part of Verizon. But they are working on it. It just may be a while till they get to your neighborhood.
Re:geh (Score:5, Informative)
There was a big controversy over fairpoint buying out NH, Vermont, and Maine, because fairpoint clearly didn't have the resources to roll out fiber optics, and verizon had "plans" to, (apparently not).
Anyway, I got a flyer from them announcing faster-than-ever 7.1 mbps downloads. Of course, in Boston, Comcast offers 16 mbps, but hey, this was still a nice move from my current verizon dsl at 3 mbps.
So I called them up and asked how to get started. They did some checking on things, and told me it wasn't available in my area. I was confused. Did they not have my address when they sent me the flyer? I begged them to take money from me, I just want some speed, please! But alas, We live in the USA. In internet terms, we're third world.
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In Rhode Island I have a Cox connection too, 20/2, for $50/mo.
I often see 2.3MB/s downloads and 250KB/s uploads. I with the upload was faster, but that's the limit of DOCSIS2 so there's nothing that can be done about that until FIOS is available or Cox upgrades their system to DOCSIS3.
I mean, FIOS is fast and all from what the numbers say, but I don't look forward to being a Verizon customer..
Re:geh (Score:4, Interesting)
I mean, FIOS is fast and all from what the numbers say, but I don't look forward to being a Verizon customer.
Yes, it's painful to navigate their phone tree to get anything done. I wanted to increase the speed (i.e., pay them more money), and it took nearly two days of tranfers to get to the right person to talk to.
On the other hand, it took less than 3 days to get that higher speed enabled, and I have had so few problems with the service itself (almost no downtime, no speed limits, etc.) that it's worth the occasional hassle.
One other thing I like about Verizon FIOS is that the price they quote is what you pay. I'm on a $139.99/month plan (15/15 with 5 static IPs) and that is exactly what my bill is each month. No tax, no franchise fee, no "network access fee", etc. Of course, the cell phone side of Verizon can't do their bills like this because "it's a goverment-imposed rule" (not).
Re:geh (Score:5, Informative)
Cox
Arkansas
$45 for 9mbps
$60 for 12mbps
http://www.cox.com/gocox/HighSpeedInternet/ [cox.com]
Arizona
$45 for 12mbps
$60 for 20
http://www.cox.com/arizona/hsi.asp [cox.com]
Santa Barbara
$50 for 5mbps
$65 for 12mbps
http://www.cox.com/santabarbara/highspeedinternet/packages.asp [cox.com]
Idaho
$42 to $56 for
7 mbps to 12 mbps
http://www.cox.com/idaho/highspeedinternet/pricing.asp [cox.com]
Re:geh (Score:4, Interesting)
Paris, TN; outside "city" limits:
Beasley Wireless
$40 for 384k down, 128k up (except during daylight hours, when you are lucky to get any connection at all)
AT&T
$23 for single channel ISDN (64k), $40 / mo. line charges. (128k ISDN unavailable)
Various
$23 for 33.6k (on a good day) dial-up
Must be nice to not be limited by the above choices.
Re:geh (Score:4, Informative)
Re:geh (Score:5, Interesting)
So I called them up and asked how to get started. They did some checking on things, and told me it wasn't available in my area. I was confused. Did they not have my address when they sent me the flyer?
Yeah. Frustrating. I've been having fliers delivered to my doorstep for *years* now, and yet they're not even remotely in my area. It's not just a situation where the neighbors down the street can get FiOS, but I'm just barely on the other side of the line-- no. You can't get FiOS in my zip code. You can't even get it in my neighboring zipcodes.
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I don't know. Even if that's the case, I would wonder if Verizon intentionally had an ad agency do that, but maintained a level of plausible deniability.
They've changed their setup now, but it used to be that when you checked for FIOS availability, and FIOS was not available, it wouldn't tell you that. Instead, it would say, in great big letters, "Congratulations, Verizon Broadband is available in your area." And then it would point you towards their DSL services as though you were checking for that. I
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Well, I am exiled in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, and I have 8 mbps down/768 kbps up cable Internet. And it is readily available around here.
So, I don't see a problem, besides greed, for US ISPs to deploy faster broadband networks. If the Brazilians did that here in Brazil, baby-Bells should be able to do the same back in the USA...
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The problem isn't greed. The problem is that most city governments sell exclusive franchises to ISPs, giving the ISP a local monopoly in exchange for providing access to everybody in town. Since no other ISPs can offer internet service in that market, there's no need to spend money upgrading or lowering prices to
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Its not just Philly.
Boston was supposedly the first metro area they rolled out FiOS, and while almost every suburb has it around here their urban penetration has been exactly ZERO. I've been contacting Verizon repeatedly over the last year so I can dump first RCN and now Comcast (god I want to get rid of Comcast /shudder), but they keep saying, we'll roll out in your area soon. Its been over 2 years.
I think the basic issue is that in the suburbs its easy to run the fiber based on the income generated. In
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You're right! Many palms to be greased. Unions. Pols. "Neighborhood activists". It is ungodly expensive to do anything in Boston (see Big Dig). Probably this is true of any large American city. And they wonder why those with the means move to the suburbs.
Re:geh (Score:5, Informative)
Boston was supposedly the first metro area they rolled out FiOS, and while almost every suburb has it around here their urban penetration has been exactly ZERO.
While Slashdotters are often more interested in FiOS internet service, it's cable television services which call the shots. To offer cable in a locality, Verizon must first obtain a license from the city or town. As of now, the City of Boston has not granted them a license. Looking at the City's website [cityofboston.gov], I don't see any evidence that Verizon has applied for a license either.
Maybe you should call them to see where the licensing procedure stands?
Re:geh (Score:5, Interesting)
While Slashdotters are often more interested in FiOS internet service, it's cable television services which call the shots. To offer cable in a locality, Verizon must first obtain a license from the city or town.
This is only for TV service. I had FIOS internet for nearly two years before my county approved Verizon as a cable TV provider.
Re:geh (Score:4, Informative)
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Comcast is not a bad ISP. My friend has had it for some time (Seekonk, MA) and while it's not as fast as my Cox cable connection, Comcast has always been extremely resistant to blocking any network ports for their subscribers.
Even when Code Red was the big thing (and when most ISP's started blocking incoming ports for their subscribers) Comcast wrote a script to check for the vulnerability themselves, and would only block 80 on those subscribers with unpatched IIS. Once you fixed your IIS server, you co
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It's not port blocking that I'm that interested in. It's the forging RST packets that pisses me off. Any ISP that injects RST packets into a communication fraudlently can't be called "not a bad ISP". That's like an airline stopping a non-stop flight from New York to LA in Cleveland and stranding all of the passengers there because someone in the back farted a little too loudly. You certainly wouldn't call them "not a bad airline", regardless of how many non-stop flights they had that stopped in Clevelan
Re:geh (Score:5, Funny)
Bad Analogy Guy, is that you?
Re:geh (Score:4, Informative)
Comcast has been horrific for me. Their customer service is terrible, their software for their DVRs is awful (even their own techs say it), and they engage in all sorts of shady underhanded stuff like forging reset packets, throttling high usage customers (who are within the bandwidth limits they ALREADY paid for).
Overall they've just been a terrible company to have to deal with.
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Dunno about that. NYC has FiOS all over the place. I don't have it, though, as I refuse to give Verizon any moreo of my money (they're my local phone company).
You think that's bad? (Score:2)
I live in a condo in one of the suburbs of Philadelphia where FiOS was specifically being rolled out to originally. I STILL cannot get FiOS even though people in the development across the street and in the development behind me can!
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That's nice.
Meanwhile, as of last week, we STILL cannot buy FIOS in Philadelphia. No matter how much I want to give Verizon my money, they just won't take it.
Where I live, I have only 1 option for internet. It is microwave broadcast. It is (supposedly) a 7Mb connect,the only thing is that after 1 gig of download they throttle you, then after 2 gig they throttle you again. I tried downloading a distro of Linux and it took me 7 days.
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And here on the west coast (Western Washington), FIOS doesn't even exist. Hell, we can't even get dry-loop DSL.
That's ok, though, Verizon. Just because we have Amazon, Microsoft, Nintendo of America, uncountable .coms-- I'm sure nobody in this area works in the tech field and really cares about connection speeds. Go ahead and finish up installing in rural Texas and just get around to us when you feel ready, k?
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That's nice.
Meanwhile, as of last week, we STILL cannot buy FIOS in Philadelphia. No matter how much I want to give Verizon my money, they just won't take it.
Isn't Comcast's headquarters in Philly? Hate to break it to you, but you'll never get FIOS in Comcast's back yard.
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9 Mbps is available here in Oklahoma City.
You'd think somewhere in this country
DOCSIS 3.0 would be deployed already...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docsis#Speed_Table [wikipedia.org]
Several countries have much faster net access,
such as most of Finland, Norway, Japan.
A few very small pilot areas here in the US
have fiber to the curb.
It is ALWAYS only rich neighborhoods.
I do not know of a single fiber to the curb
deployment in the US in a poor area, if you
do plz let me know via reply.
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Details here mention Cox rolling it out in Arizona,
but it is here as well with Cox.
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/cox-arizona-has-increased-speeds/story.aspx?guid= [marketwatch.com]{252044FA-B424-46B0-83A1-9848D796CF12}
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Yeah, that's what happens when you live in your parents' basement.
Rest of the world (Score:3, Interesting)
Does anyone have comparable statistics for Europe and the relevant parts of Asia?
Re:Rest of the world (Score:5, Informative)
In french urban areas, the standard ADSL is 24Mb/s ATM (8 to 18Mb/s real TCP BW) for 29 to 39E/Mo (with unlimited phone and taxes included), but in a few major cities, 100Mb/s cable is being deployed and sold for the same price.
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I have an 8Mbps/1Mbps ADSL connection to the Internet here in Paris.
My friends make fun of me. Most have got 18Mbps to 100Mpbs connections. At least one of my friends has got multiple connections.
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6MB here (Alberta, CA) for what you are paying, 10MB would be about $80 a month, but that doesnt mean anything as im in a fairly populous city, in Edmonton and Calgary you can get 25MB lines...however basically within walking distance (15KM) they barely have dial-up (28.8), as a random estimate I would probably say that the average speed for Alberta as a whole would be about 1MB... BC, which has integrated DSL more so, is probably averaging 3MB... with highs (excluding business lines 100MBit+) up to 25MB an
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Unless they're using DOCSIS3, which I doubt, then the maximum a cable modem can do is 45MBit downstream.
The 1Mbit up is what kills you. Don't ever pay $80/mo for that garbage.
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Ya that's what irks me about all uplinks... 1mbit would have been plenty in the 90's, but this is the age of P2P and VPN and telework. It's real f'ing annoying to have to wait 2 hours just to transfer a big document between my home and office PCs.
If only I could run an ethernet cable to the local exchange down the street :P How hard could it possibly be ?
Only 6.8Mbps? (Score:5, Informative)
I live on the East Coast (of Japan) and have a 100Mbps-rated optical fibre connection. Though the fastest I've got out of it is a piddling 87Mbps.
Muahaha.
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They do say median. Some areas, like rural sections, probably bring that down. And yes, there are a bunch of those areas on the east coast (though not as much as the mid-west).
Here in NJ (east coast US) we have Verizon Fiber as an option. I'm personally on a 20Mbit connection and I think they go up to 50Mbit for consumer-level. There might be faster offerings for consumers but 20 is fast enough for me.
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True enough ... I live in Cablevision territory (NJ also), and have a 30mbps downstream/5mbps upstream plan for $44.90/month. Can't beat that with a stick.
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Lucky SOBs.
I live in Los Angeles, and I get 768Kb. Cable would be about 4Mb.
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Honestly, I'm not really sure why this was warranting front page space. It's sort of one of those newsflash: people in the developed world have easy access to phones sort of posts.
Of course the east coast is going to have faster service than most of the rest of the country. There's a much higher population density in New England in particular, as well as much more money than most of the rest of the country.
It would be shocking if that weren't the case.
Around here, when I try to enter my address into Verizon
Re:Only 6.8Mbps? (Score:4, Informative)
I live on the East Coast (of Japan) and have a 100Mbps-rated optical fibre connection. Though the fastest I've got out of it is a piddling 87Mbps.
Muahaha.
We are talking median speed. If you and your 5 neighbors have speeds of 1,1,2,3 and 87 your median speed is 2Mbps.
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With that kind of bandwidth you can start using the internet as your local network. It means you can put your nice little server in a nice colo, and use that from home. Or from your friends house - and not notice it very much that it isn't local.
Or you can have your server at home, and when at your friends place, you just mount your homedir from your home-box straight into the filesystem of your friends box - and play, say the divx that's located in your homedir on your home-box. On his computer.
Or, say
flawed test (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:flawed test (Score:5, Informative)
They are all flawed in that they don't take your subscription into account.
It depends who's using the list. If I'm designing web pages, I want to know what people in my target demographic HAVE, not what they can get. If it's a penis size competition, then I question the study's usefulness. Besides, we have the Olympics for that - and China has the biggest gold dick. Though the US has true melting pot of total dicks.
Interestingly, all of these states are densely populated. From Wikipedia:
Rhode Island ranked 2
Delaware ranked 6
New Jersey ranked 1
Virginia ranked 14
Massachusetts ranked 3
The only think close to an outlier there is Virginia, which is still densely populated over near Washington - which would actually be number 1 if it were a state.
I guess if I lived in number 4 Connecticut or number 5 Maryland, I'd want to know what was up!
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Nah - at least per capita, MD is one of the richest states in the Union. Same with Connecticut.
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My comcast connection just did 15.5 Mbit/s on the speedmatters test but it's just the result of comcast's traffic shaping policy. For a sustained transfer, the speed would be half that.
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Those tests should be limited to those who pay for "all you can get". Otherwise it tells more about a states economical position then about their internet access.
Isn't that kind of the point? Access should be measured by what's affordable, not the super-expensive $2000/month fiber optic connection you COULD get if you could afford it. This isn't a race or a competition, it's a comparison of where broadband speeds are the highest. That's going to include economic conditions.
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Can you point me to a broadband provider that has an "all you can get" plan? Everywhere I look, the plans are based on some sort of limited max upload/download speed. While some of those are pretty high, there is no "all you can get" plan that I can find.
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I had an 'all you can get' plan with Cox for a few weeks, but then one day someone came to my door wanting to see why my modem was uncapped.
It is totally possible to accidentally upload the exact payload necessary to lift my 3 meg limit to my cable modem.
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Those tests should be limited to those who pay for "all you can get".
But you can't get "all you can get" anywhere in the US that I know of.
(Yeah, some ISPs do advertise "unlimited" plans. They lie a lot.)
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If I could get unlimited broadband I would need unlimited disk too. I'd have me a local cache of Wikipedia.
Heh. Actually, those are starting to appear, though probably not with all of wikipedia. It seems that one of the things the OLPC gang is doing is providing local caches of good-sized chunks of wikipedia, whatever their "field consultants" (local teachers) feel might be of interest to their kids and is available in the local language. Someone mentioned a 350MB Spanish subset, compressed to about 100M
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Hmm... (Score:2, Funny)
Duh (Score:5, Insightful)
The states with the slowest median download speeds primarily are located in the Midwestern or Western regions of the United States, including Idaho (1.3Mbps), Wyoming (1.3Mbps), Montana (1.3Mbps) and North Dakota (1.2Mbps); Alaska had the slowest download speed (0.8Mbps). I
Is anyone surprised that small, densely populated states have higher download speeds than large, sparsely populated ones? It's the same argument that comes up every time worldwide broadband speeds are discussed: small and dense = easier to wire.
-Grey [silverclipboard.com]
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I was surprised to see Virgina on the list for just that reason. Sure there are some densely urban places in Virgina, but there's a lot of rural area there, too.
But I agree that this reads like another report by "Captain Obvious"
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small and dense = easier to wire.
Apparently there's an optimum smallness and density. Verizon seems to be putting FiOS into the suburbs surrounding major cities faster than into the major cities themselves.
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That's because major cities have poor people in them who can't afford FiOS, whereas suburbs are comparatively rich.
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Might it also be at least partly due to the expectation that the people living in suburbs of a major city probably have a larger disposable income than the people living in the crowded urban core?
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Ok, yeah there are places where you have to dig up part of the street in the suburbs, but not for the whole length of cable you are putting in.
check this out: (Score:5, Interesting)
so far behind (Score:5, Informative)
Yep, the world's richest country is years behind in technology infrastructure..
Re:so far behind (Score:5, Funny)
It's the population density, idiot! It's easier for France to have better broadband because the people are all close together! Japan is even faster because everyone in Japan lives in Tokyo which has a really big population density! You can't compare Paris to somewhere sparsely populated like New York!
No, wait...
We have 50 Mbps fiber in Utah (Score:5, Interesting)
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Can I come live with you?
Here in Boise, ID, I can get 20Mbps down via Qwest but it's a piddly 896kbps up. That's *kilo*bits per second. And it costs US$100/mo (before taxes, fees, and the CEO's boat payments).
Every time my downstream speed goes up, my upstream speed goes down. Went from a 3Mbps/1.5Mbps DSL to 8Mbps/1Mbps cable. Now it's 20Mbps and 896kbps. WTF?
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That's basically a configuration decision. Upstream does matter, but for most people they're noticing the downstream more than the upstream.
My connection here is 1.5mbps up and 768kbps down, and I'm fine with that. Most of the issues I've had with speed on the net were related to my antiquated computer or the particular server rather than my actual connection. It's pretty uncommon for the bottle neck to be my bandwidth, if it's not the first two it's the number of connections in use.
They definitely could bu
I'm curious if anyone beats the Cincinnati Area (Score:3, Interesting)
So far it seems that the fastest AND most affordable internet (combo) here in the states is available in the Cincinnati area (that I've personally seen). It's got 3 major cities within about 1.5 hours, one of the busiest airports in the mid-west (I'm still EST time zone), a few major train rails and highways 70,71 and 75 all very near by. This makes it a prime location for major companies, except that there aren't THAT many (proctor and gamble is here for example).
I mention this because there aren't too many nerdy types like me out here.. except that they set up the broadband out here to handle major *potential* commercial needs.
So here I sit paying $50 a month for "20 meg download" (which is literally about 2.4-2.5 megabytes per second at maxed connection). That's the upgraded package. Normally it's $40 for "10 meg download"... but 10$ more for double the connection? Easy choice for me! What is interesting is that my speeds actually can hit that through usenet / bittorrents.
Just curious, do these speeds at that low of a price exist anywhere else out there for that cheap? I've not yet heard of that elsewhere. I use Insight Broadband [insightbb.com]. Note: Internet speeds are great, but the commercials and customer service / "pay-by-internet" really really suck.
population density and total land area (Score:3, Interesting)
Three of the top five are among the smallest states in the Union by total land area. They are mostly densely populated, too.
Virginia has the extra bonus that it has suburbs of Washington, D.C. and several government installations. The Pentagon is actually not in D.C. (although its postal address says it is), but is in Arlington. The FBI and CIA are headquartered in the state. One of the largest USMC bases is there, along with the DEA and FBI training centers. There's a Federal Reserve Bank. Qimonda has a DRAM fab there, and Genworth Financial is headquartered in the state. Of course it has all kinds of telecom infrastructure.
You forgot telecom headquarters ... (Score:2)
NoVa used to be the home of PSInet, WorldCom, AOL, CAIS, XO, Ardent, UUNet, ... there's a whole lot of connectivity in the Reston / Ashburn / Dulles corridor heading out 7, as there's still a massive number of tech companies out there. And it's also the current home of 3 of the 5 peering points of MAE-East.
Duh. (Score:5, Funny)
Al Gore was born in Washington D.C. so obviously the internet is fastest on the east coast. The packets don't have to travel as far to reach him.
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Population Density? (Score:2)
It's a lot easier to connect everyone to a network when they aren't spread out as much as they are in many western states.
Obviously... (Score:5, Funny)
Didn't RTFA but... (Score:2)
Oblig Matrix... (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm glad someone has 6.8 Mbs...just hope they don't actually use it. DPI, caps, throttling....these speeds only apply if you use them for services the telco wants you to use them on.
Millions in gov't subsidies and right-of-ways thru your property and all I got was this lousy duopoly.
hmmm (Score:4, Interesting)
12mb for $25 (Score:2, Informative)
I'm paying $25 for 12mbps in Tennessee.
GREED! (Score:2, Interesting)
Want to know why we have slow broadband? GREED! Telco's have figured out we will all open our wallets at a certain speed and are trying to milk us for every penny without upgrading their infrastructure. Why don't you have 100mb fibre at your house? Because the Telco's want to spend that $60+ per month on ferrying around their CEO in a chartered jet rather than to provide the service your paying for. Its rather comical that the Cable companies and telco's are screaming about bandwidth when we have the mos
of course (Score:2, Funny)
East coast bandwidth should be fastest in the USA, I'd be surprised if it was fastest in Guatemala.
Well... DUH! (Score:2)
Of course they do. The east is the leading edge of the continent as the earth spins eastward, the northeast even more so - so the electrons are moving the fastest as the earth spins in that direction. Rhode island of course beat the larger Maine NH and MA because it's so tiny the electrons don't have to go so far. And I know what's next - then why didn't tiny CT fare as well? Aha! It's much hillier than RI! Delaware? Small and flat. See? By the time they get from the northeast to the rest of the co
Hellz Yeah! (Score:2)
In your face, California!
"High speed" (Score:4, Insightful)
I live 5 minutes away from MAE-East so you'd think internet access would cost less here, but I'm paying $60 per month for 15/2. I'd be willing to bet that the recent surge in advertised speeds has more to do with marketing than capacity.
At some point a few years ago ISPs realized that most web services don't have the bandwidth on their end to serve lots of users with 15 megabit connections, so they'd never actually have to provide all that bandwidth. They decided they were going to use speed purely as a marketing gimmick and started selling "15 megabit" connections with no capacity to back them up. That's why they hate BitTorrent so much -- it forces them to deliver the product they advertise (what an insane concept!). They oversell bandwidth by a factor of 100 and then turn around and label people who actually use the capacity they pay for as "bandwidth hogs". It's pitiful.
Jersey? (Score:4, Funny)
I live in Jersey. If the level of service here is considered to be in the Top 5, the rest of you lot are screwed.
You mean gangsta rap lies?!? (Score:5, Funny)
I don't understand this at all. Tupac said "Let's show these fools how we do it on the west side, cause you and I know it's the best side." All this talk about west coast is the best coast, now you're trying to tell me east side is better? That doesn't even rhyme! How do you expect me to believe you?
retarded statistics (Score:3, Insightful)
its like the article on slashdot awhile back comparing high speed in the far east to the usa: pointless
what you are really comparing is population densities
notice something interesting about the states listed? they are all small, compact, and densely populated
new york state, for example, is sparsely populated, mostly, but i'll bet you speeds in the city and on long island are as high as anywhere else
so new york state isn't listed, or california, but that doesn't mean a damn thing, because all you are doing is taking note that these states have large areas that are low in population density, and therefore broadband penetration
Downloads... not that important. (Score:3, Insightful)
After you get up to a couple megabits a second of download speed, who cares?
What I would REALLY appreciate is some upload speed. I understand why the situation is the way that it is ("All your base are belong to us.") but I'd love to be able to do really high quality voice conferencing.
Also, I notice that no one here is complaining about quality, per se. That's good and it's a pretty big difference from attitudes ten years ago.
--Richard
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It's mostly due to competition. Cherry picking the population centers is how you get the most customers per mile of cable. That's why you can get high speeds in cities (and new 'burbs), but the rural towns just 100 to 200 miles out are still on dialup. The more they try and consolidate on pop centers, the higher the speeds go. Sometimes it's just the threat of competition that ups speeds. Where I am, Comcast doubled everybody's speed when Verizon was considering wiring for FIOS. Then Verizon decided to sk
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No, it has more to do with which carriers are dominant in different regions.
Verizon is the successor to two of the regional operating companies spun off after the 1984 AT&T divestiture, Bell Atlantic, which covered the mid-Atlantic region, and NYNEX, which merged New England Telephone and New York Telephone. That means the east coast (north of Virginia) has much more FiOS penetration than the rest of the US.
Comcast also has a large presence in the northeast. Regardless of your opinion of their policie
What competition (Score:4, Interesting)
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The only thing wrong with NJ is the taxes, cost of property, and the state gov.
Beyond that it's a nice place to live. Everyone always thinks all of NJ is inner-city Newark because that's all the see from the Parkway and Turnpike because of trees and sound dividers, or when they land at Newark International Airport, or look at us across the river.
When it fact it's a nice place with plenty of trees and forests.
Some people I know were talking about how they drove to NJ for the first time from out west. They
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When it fact it's a nice place with plenty of trees and forests.
I worked in Princeton for 8 months, commuting through Newark airport every weekend.
Driving south on 95, I saw the worst of NJ. But once you get past Linden and Elizabeth, it's an entirely different state.
If NJ could cede Newark/Jersey City to NYC, and Camden/Trenton to Philadelphia (along with the corrupt state government), it would be a nice place.
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