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Large Content Patch To Precede Upcoming WoW Expansion

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the three-point-oh dept.

Role Playing (Games) 159

Blizzard has announced they will be releasing a sizable patch to prepare for the upcoming Wrath of the Lich King expansion to World of Warcraft. The patch, similar to one they released prior to the first expansion, will include the new profession (Inscription), new talents for each class, and two new arenas. The patch will be up on the Public Test Realm "soon," according to a Blizzard rep, but it will require significant testing before reaching the live servers. Blizzard developers Tom Chilton and J. Allen Brack gave a related interview recently to Videogamer in which they mentioned that a graphical reboot for World of Warcraft "may never be necessary." We've been following the development of Wrath of the Lich King for a while now.

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159 comments

Meh (-1, Redundant)

snowraver1 (1052510) | more than 5 years ago | (#24770617)

I stopped playing WOW about a year ago. It was the same thing over and over. Push number, wait for bar to fill, push another number, wait for bar, then loot. Rebuff, and start again.

To me, this expansion means nothing. I would be curious to hear if this expansion will cause any players that have left to actually rejoin.

Re:Meh (5, Insightful)

craenor (623901) | more than 5 years ago | (#24770675)

I stopped playing WOW about a year ago. It was the same thing over and over. Push number, wait for bar to fill, push another number, wait for bar, then loot. Rebuff, and start again. To me, this expansion means nothing. I would be curious to hear if this expansion will cause any players that have left to actually rejoin.

So instead, for entertainment, you read news about WoW and discuss it online. I might have to try that when the server's down or I'm at work...oh wait.

Re:Meh (2, Insightful)

kingmundi (54911) | more than 5 years ago | (#24770701)

>> I would be curious to hear if this expansion will cause any players that have left to actually rejoin.

Yeah. Because, hopefully, all the old friends I use to hang out with, or at least some of them, will re sign up as well. The fun in the game for me was tackling new challenges with friends.

Now, granted, the game is really geared towards leveling up and acquired virtual items so that you are better than someone else. Eventually, people get bored when they approach a certain level. I imagine though, that the expansion will draw in some of those people as well. There will be new points to gain, new digital icons to acquire.

Re:Meh (2, Interesting)

snuf23 (182335) | more than 5 years ago | (#24770761)

"Now, granted, the game is really geared towards leveling up and acquired virtual items so that you are better than someone else."

I never really cared about being better than someone else. I just wanted levels and gear so I could survive in new zones or instances and enjoy more of the game.

Re:Meh (1)

PC and Sony Fanboy (1248258) | more than 5 years ago | (#24771029)

which makes you the exception, not the rule.

Re:Meh (2, Interesting)

_Sprocket_ (42527) | more than 5 years ago | (#24771385)

Go ahead and jot down an exception next to my name too. For me the gear has always been tools to a greater goal. The closest this has become to a desire to be "better" is the realization that said gear (especially when "resilience" came in to the picture) was pretty important in a PvP encounter.

Granted - that still makes folks like me and the parent part of a small minority (or a very quiet majority).

Re:Meh (2, Insightful)

lgw (121541) | more than 5 years ago | (#24771857)

Color me exceptional as well. I play these MMOs until I've reached the top level and seen all of the content, then move to the next one. If I'm going to waste any energy trying to be more successful than my neighbor, it's going to be in real life.

Re:Meh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24772825)

just wait, they're be a few people sayin' "No, I'm an exception too". Funny thing, of the hundreds of people that read this comment, only a few are 'exceptions'.

Re:Meh (0, Flamebait)

joelwyland (984685) | more than 5 years ago | (#24770839)

I stopped playing WOW about a year ago.

I see, so your opinion about this game that you don't enjoy and don't play is incredibly relevant.

It was the same thing over and over. Push number, wait for bar to fill, push another number, wait for bar, then loot. Rebuff, and start again.

I feel sorry that you remember such a beautifully artistic game with a great storyline and other fun people to play with was so grey and empty. Perhaps the game is interesting and you are the boring one.

Re:Meh (2, Insightful)

Anachragnome (1008495) | more than 5 years ago | (#24771051)

Mixed feelings about WoW.

While I agree with you regarding the artistic merit of WoW ("stunning" was the word I found myself using a lot)and the storyline(very immersive), I have to agree with the parent poster. I found the repetitiveness of faction grinding, material acquisition, etc., very annoying. I found myself doing the same thing over and over just to do something different. Also, as a regular highend raider, I found that I had to obligate myself, in order to keep raiding, to times that were not really available for gaming. It was, in effect, effecting other non-gaming aspects of my life. I felt locked into the game. This realization was what made me decide to cancel my account. I do miss it, but I am glad to have no more obligation to the game.

The thing I liked about it the most was large-scale cooperation of many players, many good friends. But eventually, the repetition outweighed the benefits.

I reactivated my Ultima Online accounts (I have two) and now I can play wherever and whenever I want(I can take a brand new character into the hardest dungeon in the game, if I choose, but would probably not last long). I have zero obligation to do something in the game I do not want to, in order to be allowed access to other content. It is a very NON-linear game, as opposed to WoW being very linear, in that you have to do certain things, many times, in order to experience certain content. Sure, Ultima Online has repetition. But it not required.

To this day, and after trying most of the MMOs that have come out since UO, I have YET to find a game that gives me the freedom Ultima Online does.

Re:Meh (2, Insightful)

_Sprocket_ (42527) | more than 5 years ago | (#24771693)

Are you really getting to freely experience content if you're so under-prepared (read: must be Grand Master in several skills plus equipment) that the mobs take you out shortly after walking through the door? Or if some player goon squad does the same?

Don't get me wrong - UO was great. Still is in many ways. But I'm thinking your field over there isn't as green as you think it is. :)

Re:Meh (2)

Daswolfen (1277224) | more than 5 years ago | (#24772799)

You are not Prepared.... ...but I am, thanks to Sunwell runs...

Re:Meh (1)

Anachragnome (1008495) | more than 5 years ago | (#24773113)

That's the same thing. You're running Sunwell REPEATEDLY to get the loot you want. Same content, over and over. I can go to 50 different locations in UO and have exactly the same chances of getting exactly the same loot.

Re:Meh (4, Insightful)

Anachragnome (1008495) | more than 5 years ago | (#24773299)

There is a difference between choosing to go somewhere unprepared (Ultima Online)and not being able to go there until you ARE prepared (WoW).

Ultima Online left that decision up to the players, not the developers. Example? Try taking your Level 13 WoW Toon into Sunwell for that fat loot. Not possible because the developers choose to make it so.

In Ultima Online, you CAN take an underdeveloped character into such a place, but only if you had numerous friends there to protect you. Far more logical and REALISTIC. But more importantly, from my perspective, to be able to make that decision myself.

Another aspect is that a player with really good actual SKILL at playing UO can get into places with very little preparation or ingame skills. In other words, that "unprepared" character CAN go into such dangerous places IN THE HANDS OF A HIGHLY SKILLED PLAYER. As such, very skilled players are rewarded with even more freedom. I remember getting my ass handed to me by butt-naked Mages simply because they out-classed me skill-wise. They didn't need the gear. Skill was enough. Granted, that has changed somewhat, but not entirely.

Try taking a butt-naked lvl 70 into Alterac Valley. I assure you that you will not last long regardless of skill.

Re:Meh (3, Interesting)

_Sprocket_ (42527) | more than 5 years ago | (#24775719)

OK. Point taken on being free to walk in to danger at your own pace. Although I still maintain that it isn't really THAT much freedom when you're just as likely to be slaughtered (even more so when groups sell their services to lock down a dungeon - the aforementioned goon squads).

As for your naked mage... geared or otherwise, I'm willing to bet the guy still had several Grand Master skills under his belt. That took grinding / training to achieve even if it took a skilled player to put to good use.

Granted - WoW is MUCH more gear-oriented. But I've run in to players that have pulled off really impressive combinations of actions that weren't entirely based on their gear (although trinkets, engineering gadgets, etc. really expand on that). Unfortunately I've also run in to mobile brick walls of gear - so I understand where the comparison comes from.

Re:Meh (1)

airos4 (82561) | more than 5 years ago | (#24771171)

Sorry, I have to agree with the parent of this thread... many people who have experienced this game get bored because of the repetitive nature of the gameplay. Check out sluggy.com for a nice series of commentary jokes about it.
http://www.sluggy.com/daily.php?date=080820 [sluggy.com]

Your comments about him being irrelevent are trollish - he does have experience with the product, and decided for himself. I'm sorry you've chosen to take a complex argument and make it "you haven't been there TODAY, have you".

Re:Meh (1)

Duffy13 (1135411) | more than 5 years ago | (#24771729)

If you can find one MMO that isn't repetitive, or hell even one game that isn't repetitive I will declare you the winner of this conversation. Even better, find an action irl that isn't also incredibly repetitive and you win. Now that I think of it, I've made this post several times too!!! As a side note, I generally stop playing a game once all I notice is the repetitiveness of playing, which usually only happens when I run out of new things/story to try/experience or on the rare chance that a game is so shallow and lackluster that I don't even play through it. WoW is the type of game I play in spurts, quit till something new comes along then go back until I run out of stuff to do again. It's the type of game that keeps on giving. Then again I love the ongoing story so I'm probably a rare exception of MMO players now a days .

Re:Meh (1)

lgw (121541) | more than 5 years ago | (#24772167)

Well, it depends on your definition of repetitive. Any RPG will be repetitive in the sense of "overcome challange, see more of the world, become more powerful, repeat" but that's not what people complain about. People get bored by "grind" - doing *exactly* the same thing with the same abilities for the same reward over and over again.

Modern MMOs are very grindy. WoW's success is that it doesn't get grindy until the endgame. In the early days of MUDs and MUDs-with-pictures and UO, there were lots of games and activities that weren't grindy. There were pure puzzle games. UO had dozens of different rewarded activities in the game, from treasure hunts to cracking the spell system.

The eventual "WoW killer" will succeed because they recapture that, and eliminate grind from even the endgame by adding a host of things to do. In WoW's endgame you have four choices: solo grind faction/cash, run instances, PvP, and crafting. Crafting tops out pretty quickly, but that's fine, it's still something different. A game which had dozens of activities (integrated into the world, you donb't want them to feel like minigames) would keep people busy for much, much longer without the sense of grind.

Re:Meh (1)

Duffy13 (1135411) | more than 5 years ago | (#24772399)

You are technically talking about different goals, not about games being repetitive actions, and in that regard I can agree with you. Grinds are a goal, a very bad goal in my opinion and many others'. Using them as an excuse for progress is well, dumb. Luckily, WoW has started to move away from these actions more and more, it's not perfect yet but they are trying to remove the grinds. This does not change my basic comment, everything is repetitve, what matters is what you experience in the process. If you experience nothing but the repetitive actions, then the game has lost it's value to you.

Re:Meh (1)

lgw (121541) | more than 5 years ago | (#24774137)

Well sure "everthing is repetititave" in some trivial sense. I turn on my PC, I move the ouse, I bang some keys, I turn off my PC. That's not very insightful, however. Using the same (player) skills to solve the same sort of problem is what most people find repetitive.

Changing the scenery or providing a storyline can help for a while, but that's about all WoW manages right now. Providing a large set of different activities, different to the extent that soloing, instances, PvP, and crafting are different, even though *each activity* is repetitive will be a difference in kind.

Some games have added challenging and tactically intersting raid content as an apporach to this - new zones that require very different approaches to "beat", but that only helps the guys who organize and plan the raids. To the rank and file of the raid it's just the scenery that changes, and in any case if you don't like large raids you have nothing.

There are several MMOs where getting to max level takes just a few weeks, and then it's all about PvP. IMO, one way to make a WoW killer is to add 20 other things that you can do once you get to max level where each activity feels quite different from the next. Each of those activities can itself be repetitive, but it's oging to take a whiel to get boring, and then you hop to the next one until it gets boring, and so on.

Re:Meh (1)

mattack2 (1165421) | more than 5 years ago | (#24773213)

How "not repetitive" do you mean?

Obviously, there are some common elements (collect the 'fragments'), but the various levels in Psychonauts are very very different.

Or maybe it's just "you"? (4, Insightful)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 5 years ago | (#24771755)

You know, if there's one category of people I find mildly amusing, it's the "meh, I played Game X for two years, and thus I have enough experience to say exactly how utterly boring and pointless it is." In fact, only slightly less amusing than the "I played Game X for two years, and then decided it sucks, it's horrible, and only idiots like it." (Admittedly, the OP isn't in the latter category, but you can find plenty of those around.)

Including, yes, such "commentary" as that on Sluggy Freelance.

Here's a thought: If a game held your attention past the, say, 10 to 50 hours an offline game would (with PC ones tending to be the former, and console RPGs... well, at least _used_ to me more toward the latter), then maybe there's _some_ merit in it. If it even kept you there for the "free" month, even playing it at a casual pace, you already saw more content than in 2-3 full price CRPGs nowadays.

There must be _something_ that you must have found interesting or enjoyable there, unless you're trying to tell me that you (and him) are self-hating idiots who punished yourselves for months by doing stuff that was repetitive and boring all along. Obviously not because you were enjoying it, but just, you know, to feel miserable one more month and pay for the privilege.

You're not retarded, are you? I'm guessing you aren't.

Or maybe it's that you'd eventually get bored of anything else, and any other game. Nobody has infinite content, at least until someone invents an AI GM who can pass the Turing test. And nobody has an infinite team of developers, with an infinite total imagination, so each quest and each monster is truly unique. Even then, debatably it's not possible, since there's a finite number of actions and story types that make any sense.

It applies to any other game too. Eventually if you play enough Starcraft or CounterStrike or Oblivion or whatever, guess what? It's starting to repeat itself. Eventually you've seen all maps (or map pieces for games with randomly generated maps), used all weapons, tried all spells, done all quests (if applicable), and that's it. End of the line. It gets repetitive from there. Even before that, exactly in how many ways can you headshot someone in CS or swing a sword at a monster in Oblivion, before it's doing the same things again? Even with a different skin and model on that monster, you're still swinging the same damned sword in the exact same arc, and doing the same block-then-counterattack sequence again. How many times you can zerg rush someone in Starcraft before it's essentially like being an automaton executing the same script over and over again?

At some point it's just time to give up and move on. For some people it's sooner, for others later. But when it stops being entertaining, just move on.

But realize that it's not the game that suddenly qualifies as being sucky, it's just "you". And I'm not saying that in a bad way. It's "you", in as much as you've seen it all, got bored, are no longer interested in it. Fine. Move on.

You didn't suddenly get a revelation about how bad the game is, you just got a revelation about where _your_ limits are. Congrats.

And please lose the preaching. It may look like you just discovered how boring and pointless the game is, and maybe that it's your duty to enlighten others about it. But you only discovered that it just became boring to _you_. I.e., that you're got a human after all. It's not much of an enlightenment to bestow upon anyone else. We were already suspecting that you were human.

Re:Or maybe it's just "you"? (1)

MeanderingMind (884641) | more than 5 years ago | (#24772699)

I feel like a moron because I failed to come up with that explanation first. It's blindingly obvious, yet somehow it seems everyone's oblivious to it (including me).

Good show.

Re:Or maybe it's just "you"? (1)

denton420 (1235028) | more than 5 years ago | (#24772931)

Probably the best post I have seen in a WoW "news" topic.

I usually read them to laugh at the ignorant people ranting about many of the things you just made them look stupid for saying ;)

Re:Or maybe it's just "you"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24773267)

>> We were already suspecting that you were human.
Not me. I never make such a stupid assumption.

You never know.

Re:Or maybe it's just "you"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24773841)

You find it contradictory that people who played game for 2 years would say it is boring, but than again people who played for 2 days you would say that they havent played enough to make a judgment.

So who than is qualified to make a statement if the
game is boring or not, Mr.Catch22?

That's a different topic, but here goes (3, Insightful)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 5 years ago | (#24775955)

You find it contradictory that people who played game for 2 years would say it is boring, but than again people who played for 2 days you would say that they havent played enough to make a judgment.

Now that's another funny category: the people who feel that their own tastes are the gold standard, and are qualified to tell everyone else what they should like.

Some people like Pepsi, some people like Coke, and some people don't like either. Would you presume to tell them what their taste should be like? Some people like chinese food, some don't. Some people like things very spicy (a couple of coleague are real big fans of extra-hot chili sauce), some of us like it milder. Most people around here seem to be into dry wines, me, I like my wine sweet. Would you presume to tell me that there's something wrong with my tongue? And then there's stuff like favourite colours or clothes. Now there's some variability. Etc.

Then, pray tell, what kind of confusion of mind would drive someone to a conclusion like, basically, "if 10 million people love WoW, and I don't, then I'm right and they're all idiots and need to be enlightened about how boring their favourite game is"?

Again, maybe it isn't WoW, it's "you". It doesn't match _your_ subjective taste. Maybe you're not much into MMOs. Maybe there's something else about it you don't like. But realize that it doesn't say much about anyone else. It's ok. It's not some personal failure or anything. You don't have to fit in with some group or anything. But the same applies viceversa too.

But again, it might be... _polite_ to lose the preaching. You're not the golden standard in game tastes, nor the yardstick by which humanity is measured. It's entirely possible that someone else loves what you hated, and don't need your enlightenment at all.

Achievements? (1)

feyd-rautha (1256602) | more than 5 years ago | (#24774569)

I think that for the most part you hit the nail on the head. There's a new trend developing in games, however, where people will *hate* the game and stick it out to the bitter end to "earn" achievements -- especially if said achievements are publicly displayable. In fact in brings a whole new meaning to MMORPG's and "the grind".

Re:Or maybe it's just "you"? (1)

MobyDisk (75490) | more than 5 years ago | (#24774673)

I play(ed) Eve online: I paid for 3 months, played it for a few hours a week and found it boring. I logged-on now and then to see what was up, download the latest patch etc. 3 months later, a friend of mine had me join his corp and so I renewed for another 3 months. I logged on to join the corp, and haven't played since.

So I've been playing a game for 6 months that I find boring. That's how it happens.

Re:Or maybe it's just "you"? (1)

trytoguess (875793) | more than 5 years ago | (#24774811)

I believe the counter argument to posts like this is something like "I hated the game but I stayed on because of the community." Usually things then go into questioning whether or not the community can be considered part of gameplay.

Re:Or maybe it's just "you"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24774933)

I'm just as irritated by the "I played such-and-such for X years and now I hate it" crowd, but what you assume in your analysis just isn't always the case.

ESPECIALLY with these new MMORPGs coming out that require you to be level 70--or god forbid, level 80--just to begin playing the game, I find it pretty easy to understand that people can invest tons of time into the game before realizing that it's not all that fun.

Some people don't play the game for the content; they play for competition. In the only MMORPG I ever played, I rushed as fast as I could through the cheesy, stupid world so that I could get to end-game player versus player, which I spent months studying: watching videos of successful players, reading about tactics, etc.. That's what interests me. Unfortunately, when I got there, it only took 3 or 4 weeks to realize that the game really didn't work like I thought it did, and so I quit.

I didn't quit smoking, I didn't stop a heroin addiction, I just literally realized that the game wasn't about competition of skill, it was about who had grinded out the best gear and random die rolls. The second I realized that, the game no longer had any allure.

On the other hand, I still play Starcraft. I'm a 250APM player at about a C level on ICCup, which is fairly decent.

I've never played a single campaign mission.

Not everyone cares about "content". Sometimes you need to experience how the game really works at the top of the food chain to see that you don't like it. It's true. It happens. And yes, the whole grind up to that point is for: self-hating idiots who punished [them]selves for months by doing stuff that was repetitive and boring all along.

So basically you had a false assumption? (2, Interesting)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 5 years ago | (#24776235)

ESPECIALLY with these new MMORPGs coming out that require you to be level 70--or god forbid, level 80--just to begin playing the game, I find it pretty easy to understand that people can invest tons of time into the game before realizing that it's not all that fun.

Err... what? I'm pretty sure I began playing WoW (and EQ, LOTRO, COH, etc) right at level 1.

In fact, that's the bulk of the game: the levels 1 to 69. (Or 1 to 49 in COH, 1 to 79 in EQ2, etc.) Some 99% of the actual game content is in those levels. And you're perfectly equipped to play that game at any level along the way.

Some people don't play the game for the content; they play for competition. In the only MMORPG I ever played, I rushed as fast as I could through the cheesy, stupid world so that I could get to end-game player versus player, which I spent months studying: watching videos of successful players, reading about tactics, etc.. That's what interests me. Unfortunately, when I got there, it only took 3 or 4 weeks to realize that the game really didn't work like I thought it did, and so I quit.

Yes, that seems to be a popular mis-conception, that it's somehow a competition to the top. So people try to skip the actual content, just so they can willy-wave about having a level 70 and get stuck in the endgame grind. Some even use a bot or pay for power-leveling so they don't even have to see the actual game they're skipping.

Unfortunately that's every bit like paying someone to watch the LOTR trilogy for you, just so you can come back and see the ending scene. Over and over again. And imagine that it was some kind of achievement to be there.

Levels and loot are actually the props there. With the level also serving the additional roles of (A) gently guiding you about in which order you're supposed to go through the story, and (B) giving your spells and abilities one by one, and giving you some time to experiment with them and let it sink in. You know, as opposed to just giving you 60 icons and dumping you at the end boss from day 1.

I didn't quit smoking, I didn't stop a heroin addiction, I just literally realized that the game wasn't about competition of skill, it was about who had grinded out the best gear and random die rolls. The second I realized that, the game no longer had any allure.

So, basically, you played a game only because you thought it's a completely different kind of game, quit when it turned out that it wasn't what you _imagined_ after all.

It's not even a WoW thing. All MMOs are about the same things: getting XP and gear. And it's not some competition with a finishing line and a gold medal for whoever finishes it first. Everyone can get there eventually. The game in any MMO is the road, not the finish line. The guy who finished it first, well, is simply the first guy who has no more actual game to play.

Well, that's fine too. Not everyone likes the same things, so it stands to reason that some people would be into entirely different genres.

But surely you realize that all that happened there is that you shafted yourself. You took an assumption that just wasn't true, and it was just your own assumption. The game didn't tell you to do that. And then inflicted some grind upon yourself based on just that assumption. It's not very different from, say, being the guy who thinks aids is already curable and fucks around without a condom, then has an unpleasant surprise eventually. It wasn't the game that failed you, it was your own wrong assumptions that did.

Mind you, you do have some sympathy for that ordeal, but nevertheless you shafted your own self with that basing a multi-month action on nothing more than a wild incorrect assumption.

Not everyone cares about "content". Sometimes you need to experience how the game really works at the top of the food chain to see that you don't like it. It's true. It happens. And yes, the whole grind up to that point is for: self-hating idiots who punished [them]selves for months by doing stuff that was repetitive and boring all along.

Well, that it happens, it's obvious. I'm still at a loss as to why would anyone want to inflict that upon themselves. If it's not your kind of game and you didn't like the first 10 levels, umm, why not just quit? Why not do something which is enjoyable right away? Exactly what kind of achievement or reward at the top, in a _game_ would be worth punishing yourself for months to get there?

Especially considering that there is no grand reward "at the top of the food chain" in the first place. That's just the point where you essentially finished the actual game, and you're given a repetitive and pointless (any rewards there, are only necessary for more grinding) grind to have _something_ to do until the next expansion pack comes out. Just because the devs can't make infinite content. That's really all there is to the endgame in any MMO.

And exactly why does it have to be any different at level 70? I mean, if you like grouping with people and doing epic enemies, surely you can start grouping at the Deadmines or Ragefire Chasm? Heck, look up the video on Youtube where a "raid" of 40 level 1 gnomes owned Hogger. (A level 10 elite, and the first elite most alliance players ever saw. Not sure he's elite any more, though, but back then he was.) There you go. Massive raiding goodness from day 1.

Re:So basically you had a false assumption? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24776535)

ESPECIALLY with these new MMORPGs coming out that require you to be level 70--or god forbid, level 80--just to begin playing the game, I find it pretty easy to understand that people can invest tons of time into the game before realizing that it's not all that fun.

Err... what? I'm pretty sure I began playing WoW (and EQ, LOTRO, COH, etc) right at level 1.

In fact, that's the bulk of the game: the levels 1 to 69. (Or 1 to 49 in COH, 1 to 79 in EQ2, etc.) Some 99% of the actual game content is in those levels. And you're perfectly equipped to play that game at any level along the way.

If that's what you think: fine. I disagree with you, and I don't play games to accrue exp and gear. I play them to compete in player vs. player combat. Not player vs. player gear accrual.

So for me, the game starts at level 70 (or 80) when I have the full skillset. It's a crapshoot to compete at any level where you don't have your class' full skillset at your disposal. Some people actually like twinking at level 19. I don't know why they like to restrict themselves to about 10 total character abilities, but they do it. I'm not one of those people.

Some people don't play the game for the content; they play for competition. In the only MMORPG I ever played, I rushed as fast as I could through the cheesy, stupid world so that I could get to end-game player versus player, which I spent months studying: watching videos of successful players, reading about tactics, etc.. That's what interests me. Unfortunately, when I got there, it only took 3 or 4 weeks to realize that the game really didn't work like I thought it did, and so I quit.

Yes, that seems to be a popular mis-conception, that it's somehow a competition to the top.

No, that's not my misconception at all. I'm not racing anyone to 70. I want to be level 70 so that I have my full skillset. Furthermore, since I don't PvE at all, I have to rely on PvP rewards for gear. You can't get a whole lot of rewards anywhere below 70, unless you want to play 60s AV or get stomped in 60-69 wsg/ab.

So people try to skip the actual content, just so they can willy-wave about having a level 70 and get stuck in the endgame grind. Some even use a bot or pay for power-leveling so they don't even have to see the actual game they're skipping.

Unfortunately that's every bit like paying someone to watch the LOTR trilogy for you, just so you can come back and see the ending scene. Over and over again. And imagine that it was some kind of achievement to be there.

Levels and loot are actually the props there. With the level also serving the additional roles of (A) gently guiding you about in which order you're supposed to go through the story, and (B) giving your spells and abilities one by one, and giving you some time to experiment with them and let it sink in. You know, as opposed to just giving you 60 icons and dumping you at the end boss from day 1.

Once again: that's just what you think. If you've been privileged enough to read a good story like LoTR, you should know that WoW's storyline sucks. The zones are random, the quests are random. It's played out cliche "fetch-for-me" and "kill-for-me" quests. You might like that corny stuff. I don't. I like player vs. player combat, and I like to participate in player vs. player combat when both players have fully developed characters. Not twinked level 19s that have 10 total abilities.

I didn't quit smoking, I didn't stop a heroin addiction, I just literally realized that the game wasn't about competition of skill, it was about who had grinded out the best gear and random die rolls. The second I realized that, the game no longer had any allure.

So, basically, you played a game only because you thought it's a completely different kind of game, quit when it turned out that it wasn't what you _imagined_ after all.

It's not even a WoW thing. All MMOs are about the same things: getting XP and gear. And it's not some competition with a finishing line and a gold medal for whoever finishes it first. Everyone can get there eventually. The game in any MMO is the road, not the finish line. The guy who finished it first, well, is simply the first guy who has no more actual game to play.

Well, that's fine too. Not everyone likes the same things, so it stands to reason that some people would be into entirely different genres.

But surely you realize that all that happened there is that you shafted yourself. You took an assumption that just wasn't true, and it was just your own assumption. The game didn't tell you to do that. And then inflicted some grind upon yourself based on just that assumption. It's not very different from, say, being the guy who thinks aids is already curable and fucks around without a condom, then has an unpleasant surprise eventually. It wasn't the game that failed you, it was your own wrong assumptions that did.

Mind you, you do have some sympathy for that ordeal, but nevertheless you shafted your own self with that basing a multi-month action on nothing more than a wild incorrect assumption.

It's not that much of a wild[sic] incorrect assumption. Watch some videos of Laintime or Vurtne. Those people were definitely skilled players. It proves that there is room in WoW for development of skill. The sad fact of the matter is that before you can start working on your PvP skill, you have to complete an almost unbearable grind just to start.

There's a reason that professional WoW gamers (competitive gamers, like at WCG) are given fully suited characters to play with. It's also the reason that the big arena tournament on the public testing realm gave every player tier 5. When you pvp, it isn't about getting the gear. It's about fighting a human being and outsmarting or outplaying them.

All of the above aside, I'm glad we agree on the basic idea. You hit the nail on the head in describing my point: I'm a competitive player that accidently stepped into an MMORPG thinking that it could foster competitive play. I sunk a bunch of months into it only to find out that it doesn't actually foster competitive play. Get it? That's where some angry "meh, I've played GAME for X years and it sucks" posts come from.

And don't worry, I'll never accidently step into another MMORPG no matter how promising it looks, because the business model revolves around the carrot-on-a-stick "rewards" that some people (like you) are satisfied to just collect and hoard. That's your thing, and that's fine.

To be honest, there are alot more people that see things your way than people who see things my way---and that's a big part of the reason that WoW is so successful. I'm not trying to be diminuitive of your playstyle or what gives you your kicks, I'm just saying there are other types of people out there, and you can't automatically project what you want out of a game onto what they want.

Not everyone cares about "content". Sometimes you need to experience how the game really works at the top of the food chain to see that you don't like it. It's true. It happens. And yes, the whole grind up to that point is for: self-hating idiots who punished [them]selves for months by doing stuff that was repetitive and boring all along.

Well, that it happens, it's obvious. I'm still at a loss as to why would anyone want to inflict that upon themselves. If it's not your kind of game and you didn't like the first 10 levels, umm, why not just quit?

I don't think you could learn much about PvP at level 10.

Why not do something which is enjoyable right away? Exactly what kind of achievement or reward at the top, in a _game_ would be worth punishing yourself for months to get there?

A good PvP combat system. I think I hinted at that more than a few times.

Especially considering that there is no grand reward "at the top of the food chain" in the first place. That's just the point where you essentially finished the actual game, and you're given a repetitive and pointless (any rewards there, are only necessary for more grinding) grind to have _something_ to do until the next expansion pack comes out.

Maybe if you're a quester/gear hoarder/toon decorator. For players who like to fight other humans, this is where the game begins. I can tell that you don't understand this yet, because you seem to think that the only other type of player out there just wants more "rewards" (which seems to be gear to you). Being a competitive person, I don't care what gear I have. I want to have enough gear so that I'm equal to the people I'll be fighting. Furthermore, I want to fight good players, who will likely be geared as well.

Just because the devs can't make infinite content. That's really all there is to the endgame in any MMO.

And exactly why does it have to be any different at level 70? I mean, if you like grouping with people and doing epic enemies,

No, you still don't get it. I don't like fighting computers. I like fighting people. Not computers.

surely you can start grouping at the Deadmines or Ragefire Chasm? Heck, look up the video on Youtube where a "raid" of 40 level 1 gnomes owned Hogger. (A level 10 elite, and the first elite most alliance players ever saw. Not sure he's elite any more, though, but back then he was.) There you go. Massive raiding goodness from day 1.

I played through level 70 and 40,000 honorable kills. I never did any dungeon higher than underbog. So I -never- raided in WoW. Why would I want to raid? I don't like fighting computers.

The sad truth is this: for someone who's interested in fun, competitive PvP combat, you don't get to try that out from the start. Yes, you have to level to 70. And that's not enough. You need at least close to the top of the line PvP gear if you want to fight against other good PvPers--because they're likely to be geared.

It's really not that hard to accept: you have to put in alot of time to experience what PvP on WoW is really like. Despite how promising the game seemed on the way up, once I got to play it, it was just no fun.

Re:Meh (3, Insightful)

joelwyland (984685) | more than 5 years ago | (#24773755)

Your comments about him being irrelevent are trollish - he does have experience with the product, and decided for himself.

The problem here is that TFA is about an upcoming content expansion to WoW. The people who play WoW are getting some more neat things to experience. He doesn't play the game anymore, he clearly doesn't like it, so this announcement of new content doesn't affect him at all. Yet, he wants announce that he's "meh" about the release of new content in a game that he doesn't play. So who the hell cares if he's not excited about the release of new content. He's not going to experience it because he doesn't play the game... and therefore, his feelings on the expansion are completely irrelevant.

Re:Meh (1)

khellendros1984 (792761) | more than 5 years ago | (#24772745)

The game's art was interesting, but you get the same style in, for instance, Warcraft 3. And although WoW may have a great storyline, I never got to see it...there were too many tedious "Kill this many x and bring the skins to y" quests in the way. Saying someone is boring because they dislike the grind? Not that cool, dude. When I play a game (especially with friends), I want something interesting to do, not something repetitive and so directly rules-based. Each to their own, of course...

Re:Meh (1)

joelwyland (984685) | more than 5 years ago | (#24773647)

Saying someone is boring because they dislike the grind? Not that cool, dude.

Oh cmon, his description of the game was push button, wait, push button, repeat. If he wants to view the game in such lifeless and mechanical terms, then there is definitely something wrong with this guy's ability to enjoy ANYTHING. Seriously, what video game isn't just pushing buttons and waiting if you break it down to it's most basic mechanical functions? His lack of enjoyment of the game is not a problem with the game. His lack of the enjoyment of the game comes from him.

Re:Meh (0, Flamebait)

Endo13 (1000782) | more than 5 years ago | (#24771155)

I have been playing off and on for over 3 years. But I'm pretty sure this craptastic next expansion will seal the deal for me. Looks like I'll be giving Warhammer a try.

It's not surprising though that the expansions are sucking compared to the original game, given how much of the original team has left.

Re:Meh (0, Flamebait)

codeonezero (540302) | more than 5 years ago | (#24773977)

Push number, wait for bar to fill, push another number, wait for bar, then loot. Rebuff, and start again.

You clearly played a rogue..the most catered to class in the game (well arguably). Please stop crying about how hard and ennui it is to play a rogue...You can 100%-0% more classes, try playing something new and challenging. Just my two cents :D

Sue the ISP's (-1, Flamebait)

B5_geek (638928) | more than 5 years ago | (#24770623)

Blizzard and like should all get together and sue companies like Bell Canada and (Comcast?) that disrupt BT traffic. Wait, isn't that what net-neutrality is supposed to ensure?

In Other News: (-1, Offtopic)

Tanman (90298) | more than 5 years ago | (#24770757)

Game update doesn't work if people don't download update. News at 11!

Re:In Other News: (4, Insightful)

njfuzzy (734116) | more than 5 years ago | (#24770811)

That's not really true in a client-server environment. They can update almost all aspects of the game, and either change regardless of the client, or require the client update for the game to continue to work.

this just in (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24770807)

game receives update! alert the media!

I work with a warcraft widow (1)

jollyreaper (513215) | more than 5 years ago | (#24770809)

Beautiful woman and yet she has a boyfriend who lives in that game. (6hrs a day or more of playing, especially weekdays = living in the game.) MMO's, they're a helluva drug.

Re:I work with a warcraft widow (4, Funny)

Syncerus (213609) | more than 5 years ago | (#24770969)

Maybe if you paid more attention to her character and personality and less to her looks, you'd understand why her boyfriend played WoW all the time.

Just a thought.

Re:I work with a warcraft widow (1)

Anachragnome (1008495) | more than 5 years ago | (#24771105)

Beauty is not confined to the exterior of people.

A beautiful person can be as homely as they get. Conversely, The most physically attractive person can be a mass-murderer.

Your assumption about previous posters comment was quite possibly faulty.

Re:I work with a warcraft widow (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24772989)

Sense of humor : Slashdot :: Light : Black hole

Re:I work with a warcraft widow (1)

TriezGamer (861238) | more than 5 years ago | (#24774909)

Is that why inside jokes that make no sense to anyone else but get modded +5 Funny?

Re:I work with a warcraft widow (2, Interesting)

Bloodoflethe (1058166) | more than 5 years ago | (#24771145)

Sad that you think it is more likely her fault than his. I've known a fair number of people who play warcraft that will even ignore their wife/girlfriend's advances because they feel some silly raid obligation or somesuch. Most of these women are actually awesome people and some of those awesome people are attractive women.

I play WoW myself, but find that, for me, the game can't hold a candle to my woman. The great thing is that I managed to find a group of like minded people with a guild large enough and with enough associations that when we are raiding or doing whatever and someone has to/wants to leave for family/friends/other, no one gets upset, we just post for a replacement in our alliance channel and wait a few minutes before continuing on. It's really quite enjoyable.

Re:I work with a warcraft widow (5, Insightful)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | more than 5 years ago | (#24772463)

I don't think you should assume it's either side's fault. I knew a girl who felt like she got dumped for WoW, but I also knew her boyfriend, and knew perfectly well that it had nothing to do with WoW: that was just his escape from the fact that he was in a relationship with a girl who was utterly crazy. If you only looked on the surface, you would say, "That bastard ignored and then dumped his girlfriend for WoW!", but you'd be wrong. It was merely a symptom of the fact that their relationship was toast... if it wouldn't have been WoW, it would've been something else.

Re:I work with a warcraft widow (1)

Bloodoflethe (1058166) | more than 5 years ago | (#24773809)

Thanks for fleshing out what was intended to be an inference.

I have second-hand knowledge of that side of things, as well.

Re:I work with a warcraft widow (1)

LrdDimwit (1133419) | more than 5 years ago | (#24773885)

She did get dumped for WoW. Like you said, it might have been something else, sure. But it wasn't. She got dumped, not because of WoW but because of issues; but this doesn't change the fact instead of telling her something like "I'm sorry, but you're nuts, and I can't take it. I'm leaving" he chose to hide behind something else.

This may be a fairly common tactic (I wouldn't know), but it's still not the nicest way to break up with somebody. And it does mean that it's not entirely unfair to feel like she got dumped for WoW. Yes, she might feel that the problem is with the game -- because he deliberately fostered this impression. (Technically it's even 100% true he likes the game more than her. Isn't it?) That WoW is not even another person just makes the illusionary jealousy even more humiliating.

Re:I work with a warcraft widow (1)

Mauzl (1312177) | more than 5 years ago | (#24775163)

Damn, why didn't I think of that. Its the perfect solution. A breakup you can ENJOY!

No you got it wrong (2, Funny)

Fross (83754) | more than 5 years ago | (#24771753)

It's not her who has the character, it's the boyfriend.

I would never go out with someone just cause they had a level 70 though, pah.

Re:I work with a warcraft widow (1)

jollyreaper (513215) | more than 5 years ago | (#24774645)

Maybe if you paid more attention to her character and personality and less to her looks, you'd understand why her boyfriend played WoW all the time.

Just a thought.

Yah, there's the picture of the hot chick with the tag "No matter how good she looks, someone somewhere is sick of her shit." And relationship screwups are rarely ever 100% one person's fault. Who knows how she's like at home, if there's nagging or crazy shit or whatever. But from what I see working with her, I have no idea what her contribution to the situation cold be, she seems great.

The reason why I tend to come down more on the MMO's is because I find them an abominable time-sink and I say this as someone who loves games. And given that I'm a geek, I don't know a lot of people who have flamed out in life due to drugs, alcohol, religion, the usual pitfalls, my dad is the only alcohol example I have. As for ppers, I know a lot of people who have flamed out in life due to personal issues that are manifested by an inability to handle games. Flunked out of college, quit talking to friends, all wrapped up in the game. You can get into arguments about cause and effect and find people who use drugs and alcohol as the same crutch that these people find MMO's to be. But I'm not talking about those other hypothetical people, I'm talking about the ones I've known.

Re:I work with a warcraft widow (1)

Seakip18 (1106315) | more than 5 years ago | (#24771001)

No joke. I had a roommate who, I swear, played WoW more hours than he did sleeping/spent outside his room combined.

My group of friends and I all played for a while as well. Great game when you can all meet at lunch the next day and bullshit about the raid and who was a n00b. Not too much fun when you're on a server all by yourself.

Friends don't let friends play WoW (1)

LrdDimwit (1133419) | more than 5 years ago | (#24773967)

True story: For awhile I roomed with a guy who plays WoW. Since the apartment's rather small, we both had our computers in the living room. He would come home, start playing, then go to sleep. Every day. But that's not the worst of it; no, what he had to do to keep up with his friends is the bad part. See, they played some when he wasn't on; in order to keep up, therefore, he had to play when they weren't on.

This apparently was too much for him; occasionally, I'd hear him say "This is getting kind of old." Not old enough for him to stop playing, of course. No, that would be madness. So then a couple hours later he literally cries out in agony "Oh god, this is SO BOOORING!" -- and then he keeps playing.

After the second time he did this, I couldn't contain myself anymore. "Good GOD, man!" Totally oblivious, he turns to me, and he says "Huh?"

"Listen to yourself talk, man!" And he kind of did a double take for a second, then he says "Wow. Uh. That was bad." So I asked him why he didn't just -- stop. And he explains about having to stay at his friends' level, and how he needed to level X skill but had to grind Y in order to grind Z so he could grind X.

It wasn't a game anymore. World of Warcraft had become his second job. One that he was paying $15 a month for the privilege of being allowed to do.

Re:Friends don't let friends play WoW (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24776283)

Actually that's true.
The 'discovery' part of the game ended after the first 4~6 months of the first WoW.
After that is just grinding.
PvE has always been grindindig finalized to grind more (simple instances --> herder instances).
First kind of PvP was grinding (BGs and raking system).
Second kind of PvP is only based on the combo factor. No strategy.
Again boring because to PvP you need good gear so now is PvE like (BGs gear --> Arena Gear). But then when you achieve semi full Arena set (around 1700 rating) you strat getting bored to get to 2050 and 2200 rating.

Actually this game will be over when a better online game will be released (like Starcraft or Diablo III).

Re:I work with a warcraft widow (3, Interesting)

_Sprocket_ (42527) | more than 5 years ago | (#24771911)

Beautiful woman and yet she has a boyfriend who lives in that game. (6hrs a day or more of playing, especially weekdays = living in the game.) MMO's, they're a helluva drug.

Ahhh - the oddity of human behavior. WoW (being a successful example of an MMO) is just another in the long line of activities that impact personal interactions. Ever hear of a "football widow"? Ever really seen a sign that reads "gone fishing"?

Yeah, sure... MMOs and other such ilk touch all these interesting psychological behaviors [wikipedia.org]. But they're hardly unique in the realm of personal interaction (neglected or otherwise).

As for me... in about an hour, I'm going to be sitting down at the computer area with my wife and leveling up some alts. We got matching recruit-a-friend accounts to play with. Re-running all this old content with player classes we rarely use has been a blast.

Obligitory Generic MMORPG /. Comment (5, Funny)

VoxMagis (1036530) | more than 5 years ago | (#24770919)

I played GAME for years - Then I realized that GAME was just a massive waste and only losers/basement-dwellers/twits/sexless-wonders play GAME anymore.

Thank goodness I quit GAME! I can't believe anyone still plays GAME anymore! Everyone should quit!

Besides, NEXT-GAME is the best thing ever! I don't even know why GAME makes news anymore!

Re:Obligitory Generic MMORPG /. Comment (1)

PC and Sony Fanboy (1248258) | more than 5 years ago | (#24771055)

Damnit, you made me lose the game [wikipedia.org]. Then again, you lost first. Does that mean I won?

Re:Obligitory Generic MMORPG /. Comment (2, Funny)

holychicken (1307483) | more than 5 years ago | (#24771179)

DAMN YOU! I haven't lost the game in quite some time. . . now I am probably going to lose the game multiple times a day for the next few months.

Re:Obligitory Generic MMORPG /. Comment (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24775173)

Don't click that link unless you want to spend the rest of your life as a failure.

Re:Obligitory Generic MMORPG /. Comment (5, Funny)

Chris Burke (6130) | more than 5 years ago | (#24771621)

NEXT-GAME sucks and so do people who play it. Everyone who has a brain plays OBSCURE-GAME, it's so much better.

Re:Obligitory Generic MMORPG /. Comment (1)

Zekasu (1059298) | more than 5 years ago | (#24774475)

GAME sucks. I quit GAME and tried NEW-GAME for a few months. It was worse than GAME. Why can't games be like they were ERAS ago? When I was your AGE, all we had were some STICKS and TORCHES to fight dragons with. We had to walk FIFTEEN-MILES to the nearest CAVE.

Kids nowadays don't know anything about games!

Treadmill (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24770991)

Treadmill Treadmill Treadmill Treadmill Treadmill Treadmill Treadmill Treadmill ...Oh god I fell asleep and that was all just remnant motor reflexes from playing.

Living in the past (2, Interesting)

Krater76 (810350) | more than 5 years ago | (#24771041)

VideoGamer.com: Do you guys expect a drop off when Warhammer Online comes out?

TC: It's hard to say. We haven't really experienced any meaningful drop-offs in the past.

After how successful the WAR Preview Weekend was and how exciting it was playing a new game with new classes and new areas, I think it's hubris for them to think that they aren't going to lose a lot of their player base. I know my household will have two accounts cancelled, and I know of about 10+ friends who are going to play as well. I don't know if they will cancel their WOW accounts but they won't be logged in.

I think the hardcore and casual PvP'ers will be playing WAR soon after launch if not at launch. The RvR in the preview was fantastic and just like what everyone has always wanted in WOW. It exists in every zone in WAR or you can do scenarios (battlegrounds). There aren't just 4 battlegrounds to play in and you can queue any where at any time and return to where you were when done. It's also possible to get gear without having to rely on a raid. And when you PvP you get XP.

Blizzard is going to try to implement some world PvP in with the expansion but it will probably be too little too late for the fans of PvP. Don't get me wrong, it won't kill WOW by any means, WOW will continue positive growth for a while until there is a contender in Asia, where the bulk of their user accounts exist. But WAR will make them stop and think about their direction. They might finally relent and merge many of their low-population servers. Maybe they'll drop their insane e-sport fetish that they've had for the last couple years and put more RPG into their MMO Arena Game.

Re:Living in the past (2, Insightful)

geekoid (135745) | more than 5 years ago | (#24771097)

After how successful the NEW GAME Preview Weekend was and how exciting it was playing a new game with new classes and new areas, I think it's hubris for them to think that they aren't going to lose a lot of their player base. I know my household will have two accounts cancelled, and I know of about 10+ friends who are going to play as well. I don't know if they will cancel their WOW accounts but they won't be logged in.

I think the hardcore and casual PvP'ers will be playing NEW GAME soon after launch if not at launch. The RvR in the preview was fantastic and just like what everyone has always wanted in WOW. It exists in every zone in NEW GAME or you can do scenarios (battlegrounds). There aren't just 4 battlegrounds to play in and you can queue any where at any time and return to where you were when done. It's also possible to get gear without having to rely on a raid. And when you PvP you get XP.

Blizzard is going to try to implement some world PvP in with the expansion but it will probably be too little too late for the fans of PvP. Don't get me wrong, it won't kill WOW by any means, WOW will continue positive growth for a while until there is a contender in Asia, where the bulk of their user accounts exist. But NEW GAME will make them stop and think about their direction. They might finally relent and merge many of their low-population servers. Maybe they'll drop their insane e-sport fetish that they've had for the last couple years and put more RPG into their MMO Arena Game.

Re:Living in the past (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24771101)

But if people stop playing WoW in the western world who will their asian players sell their gold to?

Re:Living in the past (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24771227)

To be fair, loads of people left for Age Of Conan, then came back to WoW after a short period of time. People were forecasting doom & gloom for /ages/, but it never happened. Arenas are very popular now. I imagine the new PVP zone, Lake Wintergrasp, will be immensely popular as it allows players to accumulate both arena points and honor points. The server I play on is busier than ever. WOTLK will bring even more people back. The way I see it is that Warhammer has 2 months (3 months tops) to get things right, before WOTLK comes out & brings back all of the WoW players that've drifted over the apparently "stagnant" summer.

Re:Living in the past (1)

Avatar8 (748465) | more than 5 years ago | (#24771641)

...how exciting it was playing a new game with new classes and new areas, I think it's hubris for them to think that they aren't going to lose a lot of their player base.

You just described the Wrath of the Lich King expansion and the reactions of players in the beta test. Of course new and different is exciting. Sounds like you are an explorer type. I've been playing MMOs since 1997. This sort of statement occurs every time a new MMO comes out. "This is better than that." "It's what the players have always wanted." "They'll see how wrong they are when X people leave."

What really surprised me is that when WoW came out and really did kill UO and EQ, very little was said.

I'm sure Warhammer will appeal to a great many people, probably several thousand people who grew tired of WoW. Yet everything you described has to do with PvP. You do realize that WoW has a great deal more to offer besides PvP, right? Despite what PvP players think, all games do NOT center around PvP and the 20% (if that) of players that participate in PvP.

If Warhammer comes out and attracts every single PvPer off of every single realm in WoW, whoo buddy, will I be celebrating. Finally, general and trade chat will be quieter without idiots ignorant of the local defense channel blathering about the rogue in the AH. If the battlegrounds stand empty and all the PvP realms are shut down, then finally, MY vision of what WoW should be will come true.

From what I've seen of Warhammer (features, trailers, gameplay videos, screenshots) it's just another WoW knockoff trying to appeal to a subset of the MMO population. I'm sure it will do well IF they have high standards of quality and implement it well. I seriously doubt it will threaten WoW.

Re:Living in the past (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24772963)

I stopped reading your post, but do you realize that WAR DOES have high end PvE? And that the culminating point of the game is a PvE encounter?

Re:Living in the past (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24771731)

It's also possible to get gear without having to rely on a raid.

It is possible to do this in WoW with out raids.

I think it's hubris for them to think that they aren't going to lose a lot of their player base.

This is what all the game reviewers said about Age of Conan but that never happened.

Maybe they'll drop their insane e-sport fetish that they've had for the last couple years and put more RPG into their MMO Arena Game.

At least someone besides me realizes this.

Re:Living in the past (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24772777)

I think the hardcore and casual PvP'ers will be playing WAR soon after launch if not at launch. The RvR in the preview was fantastic and just like what everyone has always wanted in WOW. It exists in every zone in WAR or you can do scenarios (battlegrounds). There aren't just 4 battlegrounds to play in and you can queue any where at any time and return to where you were when done. It's also possible to get gear without having to rely on a raid.

So Warhammer's taking all the PVPers? Good, it can have them. I just hope it means a bit more focus in WoW gets back to PVE, which is where the game really is for me.

And when you PvP you get XP.

Damn, guess they won't be taking the people into twinking, then.

Re:Living in the past (1)

Daswolfen (1277224) | more than 5 years ago | (#24772871)

You will be back. Same thing happened when LOTRO launched, and the majority of those players came back.

Could be quite good (1)

Puffy Director Pants (1242492) | more than 5 years ago | (#24771153)

It seems Illidan is going to be revealing himself based on some sound files that have been extracted from the beta files. Probably put up some quests and maybe some bosses to fight, hopefully for a variety of levels. Shouldn't just be the 70s getting in on the fun. As for Wrath, a lot of the changes and improvements will be quite good, but there will likely still be some growing pains. But flying carpets man! We'll be getting flying carpets!

Re:Could be quite good (1)

Daswolfen (1277224) | more than 5 years ago | (#24772935)

Arthas is in WOLK... not Illidan.

Illidan Stormrage has been telling us we are not prepared for the last year, even after we kicked his horny butt and took his nice shiny warglaives :)

Race (1)

iblum (894775) | more than 5 years ago | (#24771221)

For me, its a race. Will our guild be able to progress into the next tier of content before this patch comes out and basically brutalizes the guild structure. What happened last time was that a guild I had been raiding with for 6 months all of a sudden lost about a third of its membership. and the rest of them had incredible amounts of trouble ajusting to their new talents. raid attendence became spotty, then non-existent. Once the actual expansion came out, some levelled their characters as fast as humanly possible to the next level cap and started pushing others to do so as well so that they would have friends in the dungeons with them. In the end, though, that guild did not survive the transition.

Re:Race (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24772003)

At least you have people to raid with. I can't get rogues to feint, or hunters to FD or disengage, which means I'm standing there, spamming prayer of healing, or popping a shield on some mage who just decided to agro half a hallway in shattered halls. And this is an upper tier "raid" guild I'm in.

I can't even get tanks to pop out of zerker stance because they equate DPS with agro. When on my warrior (I levelled him 1-70 full prot pretty much in instances because I could not find a tank for endgame raiding), I can't get DPS classes to give me 1/2 a second after I pull a mob. I want to get devastates off or smack a mob with a shield so they hate me, and not the cloth wearer who just ate a Khorium filled can of beans and is gleefully holding a lighter to his bum, about to do some five digit crit which will get him knocked off in one hit if I lose agro.

These are not even raid instances like Kara... this is just heroic instances, from ramps on up. Sad thing these days, if I want Kara level gear on new alts I get to 70, I have to hit the BGs, get 150 AV marks, 100 EoTS, 50 WSG, 90 AB, and 325,000 honor. No other way to do it these days, as basic group/raid skills are just not present among most WoW players these days.

Re:Race (1)

Mauzl (1312177) | more than 5 years ago | (#24775663)

If you can't get people to follow simple rules, kick them from the group/guild and recruit people with brains. You cannot make a cake out of horseshit. Likewise, you cannot make an achieving raid guild out of kids with ADHD.

Two expansions later, and class balance still sux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24771361)

Its two expansions later, and endgame one to one (not arenas) pvp in BGs, you have two classes that rock, and the rest of everything is HKs for those two classes, unless there is a wide gear disparity.

Doesn't take play skill either... just a macro to repeat a certain sequence of crap until you see HK:Private on your screen.

I'm hoping WAR's PvP isn't as obviously broken.

Re:Two expansions later, and class balance still s (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24772327)

Likewise, that way everyone who gets a stiffy from PVP will leave WoW and it'll be left to more intelligent, civilized players.

Me wants Crown of Thorns (1)

Justabit (651314) | more than 5 years ago | (#24771445)

Diablo 3 looks to be a more immediate and better playing game than wow. Not sure if I will take up wow again with expansion but I know 3 months of my life are already put aside for D3, coloured shadows or not. Mebe if they fix Ret paladins I'll come back...

.

I can't play wow anymore (2, Interesting)

mrjimorg (557309) | more than 5 years ago | (#24771985)

My wife got us into the 3 day Warhammer beta last weekend and since then I've found that playing wow just annoys the heck out of me. Here are the reasons why:
1. Quests that require that you run for long periods of time. Who thought this was a good idea?! I've never liked this, but now I've lost all tolerance for it
2. There's an overall lack of theme or purpose. My first quest is to kill sprites, then boars, then harpies, then turtles, then orcs.... wait, I'm playing an orc. It seems like your people are fighting everyone and nobody. I want a common theme for why I'm doing what I'm doing.
3. I was ganked this morning by a 70 mage. Really honorable killing a level 30 who was fighting at the time. I don't know why I was never ganked in warhammer, but I wasn't. But every time I died I felt like I was killed honorably.
4. Noone cares about the world pvp in wow (I know I don't) and the BGs are about who has the highest tier gear. Not at all fun anymore.

I'm not claiming that warhammer is going to kill wow- I don't think it will. Nor am I claiming that warhammer is even better (it could use additional features). But, I can say that I just can't play wow any more- just like I can't stand to play pacman anymore.

Re:I can't play wow anymore (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24772927)

Don't know about the others, but number 2 is easy to explain...start reading the quest text. The story's there, not Blizzard's fault if you ignore it. And number 3 might be related to the game still being in beta. I'm sure as the game matures (read the gankers level up), you'll get your share of it.

Re:I can't play wow anymore (1)

Daswolfen (1277224) | more than 5 years ago | (#24773007)

2. There's an overall lack of theme or purpose. My first quest is to kill sprites, then boars, then harpies, then turtles, then orcs.... wait, I'm playing an orc. It seems like your people are fighting everyone and nobody. I want a common theme for why I'm doing what I'm doing.

See next answer...

3. I was ganked this morning by a 70 mage. Really honorable killing a level 30 who was fighting at the time. I don't know why I was never ganked in warhammer, but I wasn't. But every time I died I felt like I was killed honorably.

If you want to enjoy content and not get ganked.. then you should not have rolled on a PVP server. If you had rolled PVE, you could have enjoyed the race to open up AQ and the progression of Sunwell. On a PVP server, its just gankfest central.

Try rolling on a PVE server, and read the quests and see how they fit in the lore, then maybe you can make a judgment.

YOU ARE NOT PREPARED....

Re:I can't play wow anymore (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24773489)

1. Quests that require that you run for long periods of time. Who thought this was a good idea?! I've never liked this, but now I've lost all tolerance for it

I will agree, I've never been a fan of quests that make you run to the next zone just to talk to someone and then run back only to be sent in the other direction to talk to someone else... but eh, I can live with it as long as I can put it on auto-run for a little bit and grab myself a snack.

2. There's an overall lack of theme or purpose. My first quest is to kill sprites, then boars, then harpies, then turtles, then orcs.... wait, I'm playing an orc. It seems like your people are fighting everyone and nobody. I want a common theme for why I'm doing what I'm doing.

Now, I disagree here. For me, the game would be hellishly boring if everything was centered around fighting the horde. I like doing all manner of different things in the game rather than fixating on one particular theme or purpose.

3. I was ganked this morning by a 70 mage. Really honorable killing a level 30 who was fighting at the time. I don't know why I was never ganked in warhammer, but I wasn't. But every time I died I felt like I was killed honorably.

I know everyone's going to tell you about PVE servers, but I know it's not as simple as that. I spent two years playing on PVP servers because that's where my friends played, because that's where their friends played. Still, in the end we did all jump ship to a PVE server and we're much happier for it.

You're also likely to be told that it's only a matter of time before the ganking situation gets as bad in Warhammer. Given that I've seen ganking go from a minor, occasional inconvenience to a massive problem in WoW, I'm inclined to believe that will be the case.

Re:I can't play wow anymore (1)

malf-uk (456583) | more than 5 years ago | (#24776389)

I doubt ganking in Warhammer Online will get as bad as it is in WoW.

If a high level player enters a low level zone and gets flagged for RvR, they're turned into a chicken which can be killed easily by any low level player.

Re:I can't play wow anymore (1)

Wowlapalooza (1339989) | more than 5 years ago | (#24774371)

1. If you have knowledge of the quests ahead of time, you can usually gang them up and do them in a very efficient manner (having lots of bag space helps, for collection quests). People who are running around a lot to do quests just haven't optimized their questing. Note that some of the "go to the next zone over and talk to so-and-so" quests are specifically designed to make you explore the next zone. This is for the benefit of folks that are too clueless to realize that they've outlevelled their current zone. Just save those until you're about ready to move on. Again, it's just a matter of optimization. We Slashdot geeks are all about optimization...

2. I agree, some of the "kill ten rats" kinds of quests seem rather pointless, but on the other hand they get you experience faster, because you get XP from the kills in addition to the XP for turning in the quest. So think of those quests as fast track, and the relatively-non-violent "pick 10 flowers" types as slow mode. As for orcs killing orcs, why not? In real life, humans have killed humans for all of human history. "Your" orcs are the "good" ones; "their" orcs are the "bad" ones and deserving of death. I see no thematic issue. As for quests not being part of a storyline arc, you can't really expect every quest to advance the storyline. WoW's storyline is quite expansive and convoluted, more so than other MMORPGs, but the "storyline" quests are still only a fraction of the overall quests that are required to level.

3. As others have commented, this is de rigeur on a pvp server. Why did you roll on a pvp server if you didn't like this kind of thing? Note that for a mere $25 can you transfer to a pve server (but not the other way around, so you would never be able to go back). Then you could quest and level and farm in relative peace.

4. At 70, the BGs are mostly about gear, but individual skill, and teamwork, are still very important. In the lowbie brackets, you see a much wider variety of gear, skills and teamwork, and it can be quite fun. I have a number of toons that I BG with in various brackets, some of them twinks (e.g. my level 19 paladin flagrunner with over 2K unbuffed health), some of them total scrubs, and many in between. Battlegrounds are as fun as you make them.

The PvP part of the game is over (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#24776349)

As sson as anohter online PvP games gets out the PvPers will leave this.
All the balance is in
1) Rock/Paper/Scissors
2) Luck (RNG random number generator)
The problem is that the R/P/S approach works with high number of opponents (read: bg or better), but when you're playing a 2on2 R/P/S is too much imbalanced.
The Luck factor is what pisses me off. The random part of damage (and the crit) is another thing that doesn't work against fast games. The so called average damage is true but after log time, not in a 30 seconds game (2on2).

Again, the next balanced online FPS/strategy will make all WoW PvPers flee.

So Much better with friends (1)

grendel03 (926696) | more than 5 years ago | (#24776441)

Most online games are boring to me without friends. I've played WoW on and off for the last 2 years, for me it's not about PvP the PvE is amazing, zones become more then just a map. I like how quests are written and designed to build you up for the next area. The most fun I've had with WoW is when a friend and I started new characters and only played together with them. We never got very far and yea the quests were the same as last time but it's still fun.

I recently started playing EVE, I absolutely enjoy how brutal the game can be but also how rewarding. It's also interesting how much power player corps. (guilds) can attain, and how much of the market is player driven. Killing a NPC pirate doesn't give you a random chance of getting a battleship, you have to find someone who is selling it.

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