Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Mayor Orders Mandatory Evacuation of New Orleans

Soulskill posted more than 6 years ago | from the everybody-out dept.

Announcements 712

Pickens writes "City officials ordered everyone to leave New Orleans beginning Sunday morning — the first mandatory evacuation since Hurricane Katrina flooded the city three years ago — as Hurricane Gustav grew into what the city's mayor called 'the storm of the century' and moved toward the Louisiana coast. 'This is the real deal. This is not a test. For everyone thinking they can ride this storm out, I have news for you: that will be one of the biggest mistakes you can make in your life,' said New Orleans mayor, C. Ray Nagin. Already, hundreds of thousands of residents had begun streaming north from New Orleans and other Gulf Coast areas stretching from the Florida Panhandle to Houston. Bush administration officials took pains not to be caught as flatfooted as they were in Hurricane Katrina, announcing that President Bush had called governors in the region to assure them of assistance and that top federal emergency officials were in the region to guide the response. 'We could see flooding that is worse than what we saw with Katrina,' said Louisiana Governor Jindal." The US Geological Survey will be running a real-time "Map of Hydrologic Impacts" to monitor flood levels, and the National Weather Service has charted direction and wind-speed probabilities. Reader technix4beos points out the need for IRC transcription of FEMA and NOAA feeds.

cancel ×

712 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Fuck it (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819321)

Let the niggers drown.

Re:Fuck it (-1, Troll)

Profane MuthaFucka (574406) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819355)

Ah, you must be a Republican. How charming.

Re:Fuck it (1, Informative)

darkpixel2k (623900) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819757)

Ah, you must be a Republican. How charming.

Right--because it's the republicans who are racist.

Hmm...who blocked the schoolhouse steps and had to be removed by the national guard....democrat.

Who opposed the 1964 Civil Rights act? Hmm--that would be Sam Ervin, Albert Gore Sr. and Robert Byrd. Senator Byrd was a former member of the KKK.

...and guess what. All democrats. Learn your history. Stop being a drone.

what the hell? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819323)

It's below sea level in one of the most hurricane prone places on earth. Why are rebuilding and living there?

Make it an industrial zone and be done with it. Use the money to permanently relocate the population, not rebuild their soon-to-be blown away homes again.

Re:what the hell? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819389)

because it's their home and this isn't china where the government can forcibly move millions of people at their whim.

Re:what the hell? (1)

ghostdancer (72944) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819407)

No, in China, they don't force you to move; they are just more efficient in convincing you to move.

Re:what the hell? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819419)

anymore

Re:what the hell? (5, Insightful)

Wonko the Sane (25252) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819485)

We can't force millions of people to move, but they can't force millions of taxpayers in other regions of the country to fund their decision to live there either.

Re:what the hell? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819527)

We can't force millions of people to move, but they can't force millions of taxpayers in other regions of the country to fund their decision to live there either.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. A million times yes! Let people live there if they want, but there's a huge time consistency problem that creates moral hazard when you give people federal money to build there again.

Re:what the hell? (4, Insightful)

Zeinfeld (263942) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819657)

Last time, Bush probably did the right thing in staying the hell away from the rescue efforts and not getting in the way. The problem was that the emergency planning was utterly incompetent, not that the President was not on site.

This time they are going to make the opposite mistake. And McCain-Palin (sounds like a comedian) will be going off to campaign in the disaster zone during the disaster.

This is the reason they have a VP, or rather one of the few uses that has been found for a VP. You send the VP off to the disaster zone because they have the same clout and get it fixed capacity as the President in those situations but only require one tenth the amount of secret service etc. entourage. When Bush visited New Orleans to make a PR stop after it was realized he had blundered, they shut down relief for a day.

It is all deeply unserious, its about managing the next news cycle, not getting stuff done. Bush did not need to go to NOLA, he could have demonstrated he was in the loop by holding daily press conferences in the White House.

James T. Kirk made the exact same mistake in Star Trek TOS. When it came to TNG they realized that it somewhat strained credibility to have the captain of the ship lead the away teams each week. That was clearly Riker's job.

And talking about unserious choices, manipulation of the news cycle etc, I wonder which VP would be more competent in a situation like this.

Re:what the hell? (1)

oh_bugger (906574) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819715)

I believe the Kirk situation was actually covered in an episode of TOS where a computer explains why the captain shouldn't be leaving on the away mission. They got rid of the computer though

Re:what the hell? (4, Insightful)

schnikies79 (788746) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819683)

I agree.

The town closest to me (on the Ohio River) was was nearly wiped out during the '97 flood. The government helped them once to move out of the area. The response for those that decided to rebuild in the flood plain? No flood insurance, no disaster insurance and no help if happens again. Private insurance won't touch it. Good luck.

Don't forcefully stop people from making dumb decisions, but don't subsidize it either.

Re:what the hell? (5, Insightful)

jlarocco (851450) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819701)

Oh yes they can. They federal money to rebuild after Hurricane Flossy, Hurricane Betsy, and Hurricane Katrina and they'll get more money this time.

Any politician with the common sense to say "Hey, rebuilding here again is a bad idea" would be demonized as wanting to move people from their homes and probably called a racist.

Re:what the hell? (3, Insightful)

jcnnghm (538570) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819593)

The government isn't moving anyone, nature is. If they want to stay, that's fine, but not on my dime.

Re:what the hell? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819597)

this isn't china where the government can forcibly move millions of people at their whim.

It's their choice. Either they can move themselves or Mother Nature will take care of it.

I just wish the city and the country hadn't encouraged people to stay and rebuild after the first storm. Think of all the money and effort wasted rebuilding homes for those who wanted to return; we could have spent that effort on rebuilding some other ghetto and not lost it all again a few years later.

Re:what the hell? (1)

sleigher (961421) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819723)

In addition to that, New Orleans is the birth place of one of the few cultural items that we as Americans have given to the world. If we cared at all about America and the world we would spend whatever it takes to protect New Orleans and Mississippi, to ensure it is preserved for future generations to see.

Re:what the hell? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819737)

because it's their home and this isn't china where the government can forcibly move millions of people at their whim.

As someone who has some "American Indian" ancestry, I am here to tell you - yes, the government can.

Re:what the hell? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819767)

Yeah, just let idiots rebuild using EVERYONES money, and then have them again use EVERYONES money to bail them out. Because unlike China, here in America, government forcibly allocates my money to give dumbasses freedom to be dumbasses. Its all just misdirection anyway, so the rich get fat off of claims, and the middle-poor blindly pay into them. Keep rebuilding. Dance puppets, dance.

Re:what the hell? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819773)

Unfortunately. Katrina was the FIFTH fucking time in known history where that area has been demolished. I can understand it being people's homes. If they want to live they let them pay for it. The government should not be spending a single dime in helping anyone who wants to live in a disaster area. I believe the same thing for the people living near the Mississippi who have been flooded out of their homes earlier this year. This is not the first time this has happened. I understand wanting to FARM there, but that's all that should be allowed to be there with the only buildings being allowed to be there those needed by farming.

Re:what the hell? (3, Insightful)

DerekLyons (302214) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819425)

It's below sea level in one of the most hurricane prone places on earth. Why are rebuilding and living there?

Economics - New Orleans is a major port that services nearly 2/3 of the land area of the US. Not to mention the petroleum industry, fishing, cruise ships, etc... etc...
 
 

Make it an industrial zone and be done with it. Use the money to permanently relocate the population

This isn't Sim City where you can just 'declare something an industrial zone' and call it good. Where you have industry, you also have to have (nearby) the people to operate the industry and the people who support them. Which means in turn, the whole infrastructure enchilada - roads, schools, hospitals, etc. etc.

Re:what the hell? (5, Interesting)

Zerth (26112) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819509)

This isn't Sim City where you can just 'declare something an industrial zone' and call it good.

Apparently you've never heard of a zoning commission. Those morons do it all the time.

Where you have industry, you also have to have (nearby) the people to operate the industry and the people who support them.

Apparently you've never heard of New York or LA. Can't afford to live with an hour of some places.

They should go ahead and rebuild the port and industrial infrastructure, then build some mass transit(light rail, it's cheaper per tile:) to the nearest STABLE and ABOVE SEA LEVEL region and put the residential & commercial there.

That way they just have to repair the tracks and the "stupid end" of the rail system when it floods and nobody drowns.

Re:what the hell? (1)

mrbah (844007) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819553)

This isn't Sim City where you can just 'declare something an industrial zone' and call it good. Where you have industry, you also have to have (nearby) the people to operate the industry and the people who support them. Which means in turn, the whole infrastructure enchilada - roads, schools, hospitals, etc. etc.

So in other words, this is SimCity.

Re:what the hell? (1)

foniksonik (573572) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819615)

Hmmm not necessarily. Where I live people commute for an hour and a half to get to work each day. They do so because it is too expensive to do otherwise but regardless of the reason it is an accepted reality that they commute to work.

The same could be done for a port in a flood zone. The "city" could be located in an area that may still be hit by a hurricane but would not be in a flood zone and which is an hour drive away... even better they could set up a light rail line to support the commute for those workers.

There is no reason that the city proper has to be located adjacent to the port.

Then let economics rule (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819725)

If we can't move New Orleans to higher ground because of economics, then we shouldn't have to spend billions of taxpayer money on rebuilding the city. If there is such a strong business case for keeping the city and port right where they are, then business ought to be able to pay to keep the city there, not the taxpayers. Right now we have a false economic equation that relies on the government to balance the equation. Since New Orleans is below sea level and sinking more than an inch per year, the problem is only going to get worse.

Re:what the hell? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819731)

Economics - New Orleans is a major port that services nearly 2/3 of the land area of the US. Not to mention the petroleum industry, fishing, cruise ships, etc... etc...

You forgot the most important, the Girls Gone Wild! industry at Mardi Gras.

Re:what the hell? (5, Insightful)

eebra82 (907996) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819439)

It's below sea level in one of the most hurricane prone places on earth. Why are rebuilding and living there? Make it an industrial zone and be done with it. Use the money to permanently relocate the population, not rebuild their soon-to-be blown away homes again.

Although New Orleans had its share of tough hurricanes, Katrina was the first big one that turned it into the costliest hurricane in US history. It was also ranked the sixth strongest hurricane to hit the US.

Your comment is insightful, but I'd only argue like this if this troubled area was hit by hurricanes more frequently than it currently is. Forcing people to leave their homes is more than just a material loss. There's history, lost ones and more.

At the same time, you could easily use this argument for places like Tokyo and other areas that are and will be struck by tremendous earthquakes.

Re:what the hell? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819473)

At the same time, you could easily use this argument for places like Tokyo and other areas that are and will be struck by tremendous earthquakes.

And monsters. Don't forget the monster attacks.

New Orleans is a major port (1)

Vandil X (636030) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819453)

As much as I think living in hurricane zones is a bad idea, New Orleans is a major US port that has to have onsite personnel to manage shipments going in/out of the Mississippi river.

That personnel has to have a nearby place to live, shop, & recreate.

If New Orleans does get smashed up again, I would hope they could do as old European cultures did: build the new city on a layer above the old one, using the old city as both foundation and a riser.

Alas, construction of that magnitude is far too costly and takes far too long. Ironicly, its probably cheaper to just repair/rebuild the existing site after each major storm and just hoping they get a decades-long break again.

Re:what the hell? (1)

slashflood (697891) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819471)

Hint: federal money for large companies to rebuild it every couple of years. War is not the only catastrophic event where "Halliburton & Co." can make big bucks.

Re:what the hell? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819591)

Because people are so pretentious that they prefer the illusion of "freedom" to the practical reality that these people are insane/parasitic and will waste billions of dollars every chance they get.

"Freedom" only makes sense in the hands of smart, forward-directed people. The people in New Orleans are none of that. It's like a receptacle tip for all the failures in life so they can make easy money from the tourist trade and do nothing. Darwin would prefer to see a giant marshland with bones poking up among the cypress roots.

There. I said it. Harsh, but realistic. Which the "freedom" bloviation is not.

Re:what the hell? (1)

JTorres176 (842422) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819673)

I'd love to know how /this/ is insightful. While we're at it, we need to move everyone from California, after all there are way too many earthquakes there. The pacific northwest has way too many volcanoes, that needs to be cleared out as well. The midwest? Tornadoes... Florida to North Carolina, Hurricanes also, all the way down to Texas. Northeast has too many blizzards, southwest has too many heat waves because of the deserts.

If you really want to keep america safe and not have too many people paying too much for too many natural catastrophies... we need to move all the americans to europe where life is perfectly safe.

Re:what the hell? (1)

Xcott Craver (615642) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819759)

Why are rebuilding and living there?

Because half of the country is a potential disaster area.

It's bad enough when your town gets taken out by a tornado/wildfire/flash flood---then some folks on the Internet have to call you an idiot for choosing to live in the midwest/west coast/Mississippi river valley.

In addition.. (1, Interesting)

Anik315 (585913) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819327)

Here's a hurricane music video [youtube.com] ...

Rock you like a hurricane (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819519)

The obligatory YTMND [ytmnd.com] from Katrina's time.

News for nerds huh? (0, Troll)

keeboo (724305) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819343)

Because a tree falling in your house is so nerdy.

Re:News for nerds huh? (4, Funny)

MouseR (3264) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819369)

That frickin falling tree will knock out your INTERNET ACCESS dweeb!

That's fricking news to some of us!

Re:News for nerds huh? (2, Informative)

DingerX (847589) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819383)

You must be new here [slashdot.org] .

Re:News for nerds huh? (1)

mrbah (844007) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819387)

I guess you don't know about all that "science" stuff that allows us to figure out where a hurricane is going to go and how strong it will be.

Re:News for nerds huh? (1)

ComputerGeek01 (1182793) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819393)

Hey, I'm interested in this kind of stuff. It shows what The US Geological Survey guys can do in real time. Also it is interesting to those nerds concerned about getting to work on time, do you remember all those facts about how much US oil comes out of the gulf? I am SO glad I get a bus pass from where I work. You have to realize that there is more to nerds then PCB's and software.

Re:News for nerds huh? (1)

b1t r0t (216468) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819403)

Uh, it's not the USGS, it's NOAA. [noaa.gov]

Please turn in your nerd card immediately.

Re:News for nerds huh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819451)

No, it is the USGS [usgs.gov] too. I'd tell you to turn in your library card, but then how could you improve your reading skills?

Re:News for nerds huh? (1)

laejoh (648921) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819743)

Naa, we're talking about a Disaster Area. Making it nerdy would be like this:

The City officials of New Orleans are fans of the Guide. They advice regular concert goers that the best sound balance is usually to be heard from within large concrete bunkers some thirty-seven miles from the stage.

I'M NOT LEAVING NEW ORLEANS (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819351)

Unless a FEMA limo drives me out this city. I'm Black, I demand it! If not, I'll stay and loot!

Re:I'M NOT LEAVING NEW ORLEANS (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819357)

If that weren't racist, it would be really funny. Or, if I weren't so politically correct, that would be really funny.

Re:I'M NOT LEAVING NEW ORLEANS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819467)

Lighten up dude.

Re:I'M NOT LEAVING NEW ORLEANS (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819543)

Wait until that KKK lady, Palin, get to you. She tortured and fired her brother-in-law for much less, think about what she can do with a nigro-son-of-satan...

Re:I'M NOT LEAVING NEW ORLEANS (3, Insightful)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819561)

Unless a FEMA limo drives me out this city. I'm Black, I demand it! If not, I'll stay and loot!

Why mod Funny? I am sure this is happening. I am sure there will be chopper rescues on CNN. And I am sure we will pay for people who refuse to take care of themselves. (Not just those unable to) We saw it in Houston the first time, and most people I know used up all the compassion they had then...

Re:I'M NOT LEAVING NEW ORLEANS (1)

lattyware (934246) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819649)

Here in Lincolnshire, UK, we are in another flood-zone - all below sea level. Recently, when the area was flooded, we were paying for people who have no house insurance and got flooded. My question is, why the hell should I be paying for insurance, when people who don't just get me to pay it with my taxes instead?

Wait... (0, Flamebait)

wamerocity (1106155) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819365)

There must be an ulterior motive, because I heard President Bush didn't care about Black people.

Re:Wait... (1)

nawcom (941663) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819631)

There must be an ulterior motive, because I heard President Bush didn't care about Black people.

heh, atm (Score:2. Flaimbait) I wonder how high a flaimbaiter can go? :-P

Old "doesn't care about black people" reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIUzLpO1kxI) [youtube.com]

For more information (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819367)

Check out the wikipedia article [wikipedia.org] .

Oh for goodness sake... (5, Insightful)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819379)

Get the freaking hint - New Orleans is in one of the worst possible places, stop spending federal money rebuilding it. If people want to live there, let them suffer the entire burden of living there! If you want to spend federal money, spend it on relocation allowances and get people permanently away from the problem!

Re:Oh for goodness sake... (4, Insightful)

Zerth (26112) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819415)

About 100,000 people got the hint last time(unless it's taking them 3+ years to walk back from Texas), so 2 or 3 more large hurricanes in close repetition should have the place cleaned out.

Re:Oh for goodness sake... (4, Interesting)

mrbah (844007) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819443)

Mandate that everybody who lives in a region with a high risk of natural disasters buy health, life, and property insurance. That'll drive most people out in a heartbeat.

Re:Oh for goodness sake... (2, Interesting)

Tranzistors (1180307) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819459)

Isn't government like a mandatory insurance company?

Re:Oh for goodness sake... (1)

Majik Sheff (930627) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819599)

That depends on your definition of insurance I suppose. I sure as hell know that I can't and shouldn't depend on the government for ANYTHING.

Re:Oh for goodness sake... (1)

Tranzistors (1180307) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819445)

To where, exactly?

And since you are so interested in federal expenses, haven't they paid in enough?

Re:Oh for goodness sake... (1)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819549)

And since you are so interested in federal expenses, haven't they paid in enough?

The cost of rebuilding after Katrina is estimated to be in the region of $80billion to $100billion. If thats going to happen twice a decade, then quite simply no, they have not 'paid in enough'.

Re:Oh for goodness sake... (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819469)

A lot of federal dollars after Katrina went into buying land and building parks (in areas that are not suitable for housing).

Basically, it is an important port, so there needs to be some sort of city there. Big parts of the city were rebuilt twice in the 20th century, so don't be shocked if it gets rebuilt several times in the next 100 years.

Re:Oh for goodness sake... (1)

Pecisk (688001) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819523)

Sure, move city which was standing here for some...well, 200 - 300 years? And probably this citation from Wikipedia article about city [wikipedia.org] won't hurt:
The city is named after Philippe II, Duc d'Orléans, Regent of France, and is one of the oldest cities in the United States. It is well known for its multicultural and multilingual heritage, cuisine, architecture, music (particularly as the birthplace of jazz), and its annual Mardi Gras and other celebrations and festivals. The city is often referred to as the "most unique" city in America.

It is like asking Los Angeles to move just because it stands in the place where earthquakes are very strong and frequent guests. Duh. And they even don't have such early warning as Neworleans do.

What about finally dealing with levee's system which description doesn't include words 'might not work when class four storm hits the city'? Wow, you need money for that. No no no, money for war in Iraq, money for creating no working 'No fly'list, money for spying on citizens while not knowing why actually you have to do that.

It is pathetic. US is great country (without any pathos or irony, I really have big respect), but somehow it's government manages to avoid solving real problems and instead actively creates imaginary ones. Probably because when you have to deal with real problem, you have to act. There is no PR for you to help, there is no back offs possible. You have to ride it trough. You have to plan action plan and backup plan before disaster strikes.

Re:Oh for goodness sake... (1)

linzeal (197905) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819633)

Get a hint, with good Civil, mechanical and maritime engineers you can adequately manage far greater storms. The problem with New Orleans was that we had been spending money building fancy bridges, stadiums and government buildings down there that could weather a 4+ hurricane all the while ignoring the levees and other flood control systems that protected 90% of the city. Now some of those homes are going to be destroyed when that hurricane rolls over but even that we can build for, what we need to require for residents rebuilding this time is that they build structures that are made to withstand hurricanes, floods and moisture; the last one because if you have ever owned a house anywhere humid the first thing to go is untreated wood and even treated wood goes after 25 years or so outside. They have solutions [about.com] out there already, and if we mandated that if you live in a hurricane alley you build something like that we would not have to have these mass evacuations. What we really need is a president who is not scared of spending on such a system that would protect New Orleans against hurricanes, expand our research into earthquakes for the west coast and other disasters.

Evacuation? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819397)

Oh no you di'int!

Lessons of Katrina? (1)

Pecisk (688001) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819399)

I really just curious - do feds or anyone from government did their work _after_ Katrina? Or it was like - ohh, shit happened, my bad - and life moved on and no one prepared for "second coming"?

I hope Gustav will pass easy. That is shame that so beautiful city have to struggle to survive again in such short time.

Re:Lessons of Katrina? (5, Funny)

Fred_A (10934) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819433)

I really just curious - do feds or anyone from government did their work _after_ Katrina?

Of course they did, they're highly trained professionals after all.
They put up signs

"No hurricanes allowed beyond this point"

However they didn't expect Gustav and forgot to translate them in German.

Re:Lessons of Katrina? (1)

Pecisk (688001) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819559)

Usually I don't reply to answers of my post, but this is good laugh :) Great joke in such desperate time.

The Shock Doctrine (3, Informative)

slashflood (697891) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819417)

Make sure to read Naomi Kleins book "The Shock Doctrine" or at least one of her online articles: The Shock Doctrine in Action in New Orleans [naomiklein.org] .

Re:The Shock Doctrine (3, Insightful)

HertzaHaeon (1164143) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819705)

Also make sure to read some criticism against The Shock Doctrine. It's full of errors and outright lies. Take a look at this video series [youtube.com] , for example. Yes, I know it's Cato, but give it a chance. I was skeptical at first, but now I don't think Klein is someone I want on my side at all.

Re:The Shock Doctrine (1)

blind biker (1066130) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819755)

That's an eye opener, thank you.

Well, actually I am not completely surprised, either. I came to expect anything from humankind.

Is this allowed in the US? (4, Interesting)

sveinungkv (793083) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819421)

Are the mayor really allowed to do this? Last time New Orleans had an evacuation there where looting of the abandoned properties. Should it not be up to the owners to them self decide if staying behind to defend it is worth the risk or not?

Disclaimer: I am European. I don't think the government would have any problem doing it here. But are not Americans more concerned about their liberty (for example to risk drowning and looters) then we are?

Re:Is this allowed in the US? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819495)

Is the mayor really allowed to do this? Last time New Orleans had an evacuation there was looting of the abandoned properties. Should it not be up to the owners themselves to decide if staying behind, to defend it, is worth the risk or not?

Disclaimer: I am European. I don't think the government would have any problem doing it here. But are not Americans more concerned about their liberty (for example to risk drowning and looters) then we are?

You're welcome. (Results not guaranteed, others may disagree, I am not an English teacher, nor English Major, consult your resident English expert, your mileage may vary, my English may not be standard, but neither is US English).

Disclaimer: English is my first language, however, that doesn't mean shit when my partner knows more about English grammar then I do (and English isn't their first language).

Re:Is this allowed in the US? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819595)

You're welcome. (Results not guaranteed, others may disagree, I am not an English teacher, nor English Major, consult your resident English expert, your mileage may vary, my English may not be standard, but neither is US English).

Disclaimer: English is my first language, however, that doesn't mean shit when my partner knows more about English grammar then I do (and English isn't their first language).

It certainly isn't.

Re:Is this allowed in the US? (3, Insightful)

introspekt.i (1233118) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819499)

In America, your mileage can vary when it comes to powers of local governments. In theory, as long as they don't interfere with the constitution and other overarching federal rules, they can vary quite a bit...though I digress.

Typically emergency powers like evacuation orders falls within the branch of the executive powers like the mayorial types or the governor types. I'm not sure of the exact specifics of this in New Orleans, but I am pretty sure that the Mayor can tell the city staff (firefighters, cops, city workers) to stop working (at the very least..he may be able to issue evacuation orders). Regardless, if he can tell the city staff to shrink itself down to a skeleton crew, that should be reason enough for anybody to gtfo of a city like NOLA.

Re:Is this allowed in the US? (5, Informative)

schnikies79 (788746) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819505)

It's a bit of a misnomer. They can't and don't force you to leave. They sweep the area and strongly suggest you leave, but they won't make you. In Florida at one time they (Charlie) had you list your next of kin so they knew who to contact.

It basically means that if you decide yo stay, you are on your own.

Re:Is this allowed in the US? (1)

kent_eh (543303) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819777)

And that's exactly the language they are using.
When the mayor says in a press conference "if you are foolish enough to stay, you're on your own", then most people generally will act to protect themselves.

Re:Is this allowed in the US? (4, Insightful)

satoshi1 (794000) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819511)

Well, think about it this way: How many people will be upset at the governor/government if NO evacuation is ordered? A TON of people will be because this country is full of idiots who can't think for themsleves and NEED the government to think for them.

I guess you completely missed Hurricate Katrina (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819525)

Last time New Orleans had an evacuation there where looting of the abandoned properties.

Nice way to completely gloss over the fact that there were houses turned at 90 degree angles off their foundations, that people starved to death, drowned in >9 feet of storm surge, and weren't able to return to the city for weeks and lost everything they owned.

The threat to human life from one of these storms is beyond measure. Last time the citizens of the city decided "hey, let's ride out the storm", we couldn't even send in the national guard to save them for 5 days.

So sure, if it's not legal, all the mayor then needs to do is get it declared a state of emergency, declare martial law, and then send out the troops to enforce a mandatory evacuation. It's easier if people comply and get the hell out of there so they don't die.

Re:I guess you completely missed Hurricate Katrina (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819769)

My memory was that there was very little storm damage and storm surge- Katrina's storm damage was far greater in Mississippi.

It was the failing levees that wrecked NOLA.

Re:Is this allowed in the US? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819573)

Simple answer is no they can not force you to leave, "Mandatory" in this context means your free to do what you want but here is your free ride, if you don't leave you it's your own ass.

Re:Is this allowed in the US? (1)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819575)

Our system works like this: elected leaders may declare a state of emergency and evacuate an area, but if the citizens feel that it was unjustified, they can sue the official later. In this case, I doubt there will be many lawsuits, since the people of New Orleans were beginning to evacuate on their own anyway.

Re:Is this allowed in the US? (1)

DrFalkyn (102068) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819693)

They can call it a 'mandatory' evacuation, but they can't actually make people leave, not without declaring martial law. All it means is that if you want to stay, you can't depend on the city services to bail you out.

Remember, everyone. This is the work of the Lord. (0, Flamebait)

The Ultimate Fartkno (756456) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819477)

Hurricanes are caused by homosexuals, apparently.

Or Republicans.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/08/28/hagee-ministries-no-comment-on-tropical-storm-gustav/ [thinkprogress.org]

Re:Remember, everyone. This is the work of the Lor (-1, Flamebait)

pottymouth (61296) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819531)

Or the evil wishes of Democrates

Or morons

Oh, aren't those all the same thing....

Re:Remember, everyone. This is the work of the Lor (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819541)

Or Michael Moore.

(And I think he's got a case. The toots he makes after All-You-Can-Keep-Down-For-A-Dollar night at the local tacqueria probably DOES kill the ozone layer and contribute to global warming).

NYT sucks (1)

Sir_Lewk (967686) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819491)

I tried to RTFA, but I couldn't because I wasn't registered. Don't give me that bugmenot crap either.

You can't defeat nature (5, Insightful)

Smivs (1197859) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819515)

So New Orleans is likely to be flooded yet again, but this is not a unique occurance. Florida is often trashed by hurricanes, and here in the UK much of our housing is on flood-plains, and some of our villages are crumbling into the sea due to coastal erosion.
You can't beat nature, but we've all got to live somewhere, and there is normally a very good reason for a settlement to be where it is.
It's a balancing act. Sometimes you need to put resources into sustaining a town/city, and elsewhere this may be inappropriate. The big question is 'Who decides?'

Re:You can't defeat nature (2, Funny)

lewko (195646) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819607)

The big question is 'Who decides?'

Obviously you don't watch Fox News.

Re:You can't defeat nature (1)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819687)

So New Orleans is likely to be flooded yet again, but this is not a unique occurance. Florida is often trashed by hurricanes, and here in the UK much of our housing is on flood-plains, and some of our villages are crumbling into the sea due to coastal erosion. You can't beat nature, but we've all got to live somewhere, and there is normally a very good reason for a settlement to be where it is. It's a balancing act. Sometimes you need to put resources into sustaining a town/city, and elsewhere this may be inappropriate. The big question is 'Who decides?'

Screw that. The bigger question is who pays for bad decisions? Since I actually have a job, more often than not, it is me.

Ellen (0, Offtopic)

kanweg (771128) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819537)

Is Ellen Degeneris still living in New Orleans, then?

Bert

Real-time Transcriptions... (3, Informative)

technix4beos (471838) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819551)

We do have a pressing need for personnel who can type fast, have a good ear for "American" dialect, and is willing to spend several hours transposing into IRC.

Please head to the linked wiki (either wiki.interdictr.com [interdictr.com] or gustavwiki.com [gustavwiki.com] ), or directly to the irc.freenode.net and join #interdictor

Cheers, see you there.

And to all those who thought Ray Nagin was stupid (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819611)

See. He's learned. Woo hoo...

And why the hell do Nagin and Landreaux get a pass for what happened three years ago? Mississippi got hit just as hard as Louisiana, and got just as little help from the feds.

The Second Flush (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819675)

That finally pushes the turd out of the toilet.

The mayor's statement: (1)

dumbunny (75910) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819677)

"that will be one of the biggest mistakes you can make in your life"

It's interesting how the mayor has to overstate the odds of a disaster occurring to get people to do what's in their best interests. If he were actually say the truth, like, "at this point there's a 25% chance that the path and intensity of Gustav will cause a surge that will cause the levees to fail," people would ignore the evacuation orders, even though they now know what a levee failure entails. So now, there's a 75% chance that the levees will hold and next time he'll have to say something like, "this will be the very, most colossal mistake you can make in this or any other life," in order to get people to move.

The other day, my 8-year old had the audacity to tell me, "well, I crossed the street by myself once, and I didn't get hit," so I sat her down and explained acceptable risk, how to calculate expected values, damage quantification, and how many trials it would actually take before a statement like that would validate my letting her cross the street alone. Her eyes glazed over after a few minutes, but at least she'll think twice before crossing the street again. Going forward, every stupid risk she takes is going to be another math lesson, and I'll make her write down the probabilities and calculate the expected damages before she gets out of time out. Hopefully, she'll grow up to be both safe and smart, unlike the idiots who elect to stay behind in NOLA and (probably) live to convince others to ignore evidence and go with their guts.

Re:The mayor's statement: (4, Funny)

Super_Z (756391) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819779)

Don't use math as punishment - she will only grow up hating it and probably end up as a hairdresser.

God really really really wants this turd flushed (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819729)

Seriously.

Take a fuckin' hint.

fat mercs! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819751)

Blackwater are gonna get so fat after looting all that chicken and watermelon that they won't be able to carry the TVs out of people's doors.

"Hurricane Relief" sites already in the works... (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819771)

http://www.dshield.org/diary.html?storyid=4954 (dshield.org)

"Here we go again - Hurricane Relief Sites

Remember three years ago when hurricanes Katrina and Rita hit the US Gulf coast? On the day Katrina hit New Orleans hundreds of donation sites appeared online, many if not most were scam sites. Well this time around it looks like the people who like to register domain names in anticipation of a storm's arrival have already started registering them for Gustav and Hanna. I'm not suggeting that they are up to no good, but simply pointing out that the rush has started and we need to make sure our users are aware of the potential for scam sites appearing online in the next few days."

Storm of the Century?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24819775)

They called Katrina "The Storm of the Century" too. I guess that was the 1904 to 2004 century.

This is the 2008-2108 century.

Big Brother tag? Why? (1)

wtfispcloadletter (1303253) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819783)

Can anyone explain why this has the "big brother" tag? Is it simply because of the evacuation order? If so, why?

mandatory evacuation (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 6 years ago | (#24819785)

Should be my choice to stay or not. Sure i might die, but its MY property, my life, my choice.

I thought this was America?

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?