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How HP Could Turn a Novelty Into a Revolution

kdawson posted more than 6 years ago | from the just-the-right-touch dept.

HP 353

RobotsDinner writes "HP's TouchSmart desktop is cool, but a blogger suggests it could be the beginning of a revolution if HP were to finally make the move of ditching Windows and building a Linux distro around the TouchSmart UI. 'Hello, HP. The UI of your latest TouchSmart computer says something about you. You may not have recognized your own weaving-in of meaning, but it comes across quite clearly if one reads just right: You want out. You want to escape the world of Windows to which Microsoft has sequestered you for the better part of two decades. Ah, but you can. No longer does Bill Gates stand guard outside your cell ... It's time to ditch Windows and build a Linux distro around the TouchSmart UI ... Your captivity of innovation under Microsoft is over. You're free. Free to invent, as you might put it.'"

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Slow News Day (5, Insightful)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 6 years ago | (#24837999)

A pure Linux fanboy wrote that blog post that made its way to Slashdot's homepage. He just wants HP to put Linux on the hot new product, when really this is a Windows Tablet with a few new cool apps writen for it.

Re:Slow News Day (2, Funny)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838037)

And it's such a YAWNable product too.

Re:Slow News Day (2, Interesting)

exley (221867) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838397)

Yawnable? I disagree. Useful? Not so sure. I have a convertible tablet laptop (no touch screen; just the stylus) and I think it is fantastic, but I'm not sure if I could see myself using the touch feature of a 22" size box on a regular basis.

Still might be cool product once you get your hands on it, though, and this post could end up an unwitting Slashvertisement for some of us, much to the chagrin of those responsible for the latest non-news story to hit the front page.

Re:Slow News Day (2)

zonky (1153039) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838067)

Innit. How low can the front page go?

Re:Slow News Day (5, Funny)

maxume (22995) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838475)

All the way to 11.

Re:Slow News Day (4, Interesting)

complete loony (663508) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838139)

Not to mention that a touch screen interface either gives you RSI or neck / back ache depending on the position of the screen.

Re:Slow News Day (1)

networkBoy (774728) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838637)

I'm already thinking as a fourth monitor, mounted at a slight (nearly flat) incline behind my keyboard for my AV work as a touch digital slide/jog/shuttle board...

Re:Slow News Day (4, Interesting)

anagama (611277) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838681)

I think it is this video: http://www.archive.org/details/AlanKeyD1987 [archive.org]

In which Douglas Englebart discovered that it was very tiring to use a touch screen display in the 60s. Half a century later, we'll be relearning that.

Re:Slow News Day (4, Interesting)

anagama (611277) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838813)

The comment is by Alan Kay at 7:10. And of course, I misspelled "Engelbart". Anyway here's the quote (Sketchpad is from 1962):

"By the way, Sketchpad was the first system in which it was definitely discovered that the light pen is a very bad input device because the blood runs out of your hand in about 20 seconds and leaves it numb. In spite of that it's been reinvented at least 90 times in the last 25 years." Alan Kay, 1987.

Re:Slow News Day (3, Interesting)

arth1 (260657) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838871)

The main problems with touch screens for more than casual use are:

1: You obscure what you touch. Until we get transparent hands, people will obscure the screen while using it.
2: Smudges and scratches. If you don't think this is a real problem, look at the pay terminal at the grocery store. And that's casual use.
3: Gorilla Arm syndrome. This has been the downfall of touch screens for frequent input each and every time they have been re-launched as the next big thing.

Re:Slow News Day (4, Interesting)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838143)

A pure Linux fanboy wrote that blog post that made its way to Slashdot's homepage. He just wants HP to put Linux on the hot new product, when really this is a Windows Tablet with a few new cool apps writen for it.

You're right. But he does have a point, although that may not have been intentional. If Linux were to power a nifty device that caught the attention of the masses, that'd certainly be a good first step towards gaining mass acceptance.

But... well really there's nothing insightful about what I just said. Nothing new, anyway. It's easy for me to say "put Linux on a neat product!", but picking the right product, making it work, and convincing somebody to do it ... well if I could provide a step by step of how to realistically pull that off, I'd deserve more than a +5.

Re:Slow News Day (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24838231)

If Linux were to power a nifty device that caught the attention of the masses, that'd certainly be a good first step towards gaining mass acceptance.

You mean like the Asus Eee?

Re:Slow News Day (4, Insightful)

Gewalt (1200451) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838293)

No, more like Tivo

Re:Slow News Day (5, Interesting)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838363)

Yeah, I bet Tivo are really glad they picked Linux given the reaction to them from the Linux community.

Re:Slow News Day (2, Interesting)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838387)

One one hand, some people are mad at them.
On the other hand, they saved millions in development costs.
I don't see them being unhappy unless it is an existential angst.

Re:Slow News Day (2, Informative)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838761)

Their 'supplier' has changed its licensing terms specifically to put them out of business. Companies get antsy about that.

They mentioned GPL3 in their annual report to the SEC

http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5304340445.html [linuxdevices.com]

In addition, the GNU Public License is subject to occasional revision. A proposal for changing the license from its current form (GPLv2) into a newer, more restrictive version called GPLv3 has been proposed and is currently undergoing community review. If the currently proposed version of GPLv3 is widely adopted, we may be unable to incorporate future enhancements to the GNU/Linux operating system into our software, which could adversely affect our business.

in fact they regard GPL3 as a threat to Linux on the same level as SCO's lawsuit.

Our TiVo software includes parts of the Linux kernel and the GNU/Linux operating system. The Linux kernel and the GNU/Linux operating system have been developed and licensed under the GNU General Public License, version 2 and similar open source licenses. These licenses state that any program licensed under them may be liberally copied, modified, and distributed. The GNU General Public license is a subject of litigation in the case of The SCO Group, Inc. v. International Business Machines Corp., pending in the United States District Court for the District of Utah. SCO Group, Inc., or SCO, has publicly alleged that certain versions of the Linux kernel contain unauthorized UNIX code or derivative works of UNIX code. Uncertainty concerning SCO's allegations, regardless of their merit, could adversely affect our manufacturing and other customer and supplier relationships. It is possible that a court would hold these open source licenses to be unenforceable in that litigation or that someone could assert a claim for proprietary rights in our TiVo software that runs on a GNU/Linux-based operating system. Any ruling by a court that these licenses are not enforceable, or that GNU/Linux-based operating systems, or significant portions of them, may not be liberally copied, modified or distributed, would have the effect of preventing us from selling or developing our TiVo software and would adversely affect our business.

I bet they have a Tivo in the works based on an alternate OS just to cover themselves.

Re:Slow News Day (1)

Knuckles (8964) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838917)

Tivo's supplier is the kernel team and they have done nothing of the sort. Anyway, if they are unhappy with the licensing terms they can always write their own code.

Re:Slow News Day (5, Insightful)

Zorque (894011) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838555)

Why do people have to treat devices like this as being nothing more than a stepping stone for the all-powerful Linux? Propagandizing like that is just the thing that keeps people from taking people like you seriously.

Re:Slow News Day (2, Insightful)

mabhatter654 (561290) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838791)

because Microsoft didn't treat the PC that way and Apple's not treating the iPhone that way.... Right.

Re:Slow News Day (1)

Zorque (894011) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838843)

They don't claim to have some sort of moral superiority or anything like that, we know for certain they're just in it for the money. If Linux is supposed to be free as in both speech and beer, then why should we be pushing it on people? That's not freedom.

Re:Slow News Day (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838823)

Why do people have to treat devices like this as being nothing more than a stepping stone for the all-powerful Linux? Propagandizing like that is just the thing that keeps people from taking people like you seriously.

Nobody takes Linux people seriously because the difference between it and Windows/Mac is, from their perspective anyway, trivial. So, yes, finding a way to get them to notice it is on some people's minds. You gotta better idea? Something a little better than IBM's quickly-evaporating-commercial?

Re:Slow News Day (1)

Zorque (894011) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838885)

Maybe just program it the best you can and stop relying on dishonest gimmicks? If it's a good operating system, people will use it, and they'll try to get their friends and family to use it. If it's not a good operating system, it will either improve or die. Linux is just a loosely-associated group of OS's (or technically the kernel they all have in common), and putting it on one device isn't going to make it an overnight success. Go ahead and port it to whatever devices you feel like, but it's going to be a different experience than any other distribution they're using, and it's not going to win accolades and praise from all around. People have ported Linux to far more interesting devices before and it really hasn't changed a thing.

Re:Slow News Day (0, Flamebait)

ozphx (1061292) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838179)

Bloody amazing spin considering the presence on touchscreen/multitouch on the MS roadmap. Where is even the slightest hint that this news should be tagged anything but "hp multitouch windows"?

I would've read it as "HP Makes Multitouch Crap to Convert Some Apple Fans and get Ready for Windows 7". I read it cynically as another facade program, like the HTC TouchFlo, to try and ride some free sales by including "iPhone Touch" in a product.

Still, TFA makes me laugh. Could this be the year of the Linucks Multitouching Desktop Running Duke Nukem Forever?

There can be no TouchSmart w/o Windows (5, Insightful)

ArtistFrmrlyKnwnAsAC (1288796) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838719)

I'm not trolling at all when I say this anonymous blogger has absolutely no idea what's involved with software development. Anyone familiar with the underlying technologies (.NET, WPF, and the Tablet API) knows that the TouchSmart UI code makes up 1% of the GIGANTIC software stack required to make it possible. Running away from windows? I'd say they're doing exactly the opposite.

This brings me to my second point: this person also has no sense of history--Windows OEMs have been doing shell replacement since DOS. Remember Geoworks? I'll bet the Compaq half of HP remembers Tabworks. They used it as their Windows shell from 3.1 all the way through their first year of Windows 95 (I supported in 1995 as a Compaq employee). TouchSmart is way more capable than any previous shell replacement, but what this blogger doesn't understand is that he has endless Windows APIs to thank for that.

Re:Slow News Day (1)

tsa (15680) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838803)

Thanks for confirming my suspicions. The HP site was too slow to load so I couldn't see what the fuss was about. Moving on...

Is that a pun? (0, Offtopic)

Jrabbit05 (943335) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838001)

I think that's a pun. ON MY INTERNET.

Wishful thinking (5, Insightful)

Merlin42 (148225) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838043)

Not sure how this qualifies as Slashdot frontpage worthy. Sure its a neat UI that hides much of the visable portions of windows, but its still windows, with all the good (app. compatibility) and bad (M$) that it brings with it. "Just" switch it to Linux is a hell of a lot harder than this rambling blogger makes it sound.

Re:Wishful thinking (5, Insightful)

exley (221867) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838359)

Apparently any random Linux wet dream is good enough for the front page these days. Random asshole blogger wants Windows-based product to use Linux... Film at 11.

Re:Wishful thinking (4, Insightful)

StreetStealth (980200) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838497)

From the way he mentions it offhand, the blogger has probably never done any dev work on Linux. However, I think what he's getting at is that since HP has (ostensibly, I've never used one) built its own UI paradigm that replaces the Windows desktop and windowing system, they should just cut their ties and invest in expanding it into something bigger and more robust.

I think TFA's real shortcoming is that it doesn't begin to consider what would actually be needed beyond a word processor. Making a new, fully-functional desktop UI (on Linux or anything else for that matter) is a much taller order than just porting the existing photo sharing gimmicks or whatever it is they have.

Of course, it *is* HP we're talking about; they *could* afford to try this if they really wanted. It just wouldn't be a quick or cheap process.

Crack is hard to kick... (4, Insightful)

Frosty Piss (770223) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838057)

...If HP were to finally make the move of ditching Windows...

It's hard enough to kick a nasty crack habit, especially when you have to worry about your dealer coming after you for a beat down.

HP (or any OEM) may not be able to piss off Microsoft, since a significant number of HP's customers demand MS. MS is known to get threatening with the licensing for companies the stray too far from the Microsoft ideal of exclusivity in the consumer market.

Re:Crack is hard to kick... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24838169)

That's why it's all screwy. I work in an industry that depends on another industry to provide me with supplies. They give me parts, I make something, and I sell it to a customer. I expect my suppliers to bend over backwards, because I can take my business to their competitors without upsetting my customers.

HP doesn't have that luxury.

Re:Crack is hard to kick... (2, Insightful)

Microlith (54737) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838651)

MS is known to get threatening with the licensing for companies the stray too far from the Microsoft ideal of exclusivity in the consumer market.

Indeed. I recall them threatening their OEM licensees when Be started looking for a box maker who was willing to set up a daul boot option. Microsoft loves abusing its monopoly to keep competitors out of the market.

This is why... (4, Funny)

Barny (103770) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838059)

You can love your pc,

but just don't "love" your pc :P

A fanboi needs to remember to take his meds imho.

Wishful thinking (1)

jo42 (227475) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838073)

Somehow I just don't think that the Hack'n'Pack MBAs/PHBs/Little White Ball Wacking Executive Management types would go for it. Something about risk and grubbing for dollars and doing this would be too risky and wouldn't grub enough dollars for the company. Not to mention I don't think all of them put together would have enough "vision" to pull this off.

Gimmick (5, Interesting)

vinividivici (919782) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838077)

From personally using/selling this computer for about a month, I can say it is nothing more than a gimmick. It's nothing more than a glorified tablet with a glossy screen. If HP were serious about trying to revolutionize an industry, chances are, they'd have to partner with Apple to use their patents. As it is now, the screen is uncomfortable, buggy, and horrifically unprecise. Plus, the computer itself is nothing special, being built on the same platform as their DV5 series of laptops. The processor is just a Core2 Duo T5750 which barely clocks at 2.0ghz. They try to make up for the mediocre processor with 4gb of 333mhz DDR2, and fail. The screen has no multi-touch capability, so using an on-screen keyboard is a pain because response time shows as much latency as someone trying to play WoW on a 28.8kbps dial-up connection. HP will never turn novelty into a revolution. These companies do nothing more than market the norm with a little more glitz, and unfortunately, the age of the keyboard and mouse is not yet over. Give me a capacitive multi-touch screen with haptic feedback that runs linux with Enlightenment or one of the other eyecandy desktop environments on a low profile desktop form factor, then we'll see if touch screens are the way of the future.

Re:Gimmick (4, Interesting)

Iamthecheese (1264298) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838269)

I remember when Hewlett Packard was a trusted name in printing. Their HP 9871A was an industry revolution and every printer they made was build to last. Then some time in the late '90s I bought an HP printer and IT WAS A DOG. The damn thing couldn't print on a straight line, was made of thin, thin plastic, had cartridges that cost more than the damn printer... and all my years of loyalty to the HP name went whooooooooshhhhh. That was about the time they started making computers.

Re:Gimmick (1)

skogs (628589) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838419)

I can't help but second this. I abhor everything HP/Compaq...especially since they merged with Compaq. There is plenty of money to be made in printers...good quality printers. I wish they would have stuck with that and never started making printers with 180Meg drivers.

Re:Gimmick (1)

Zaffle (13798) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838563)

I remember when Hewlett Packard was a trusted name in printing. Their HP 9871A was an industry revolution and every printer they made was build to last. Then some time in the late '90s I bought an HP printer and IT WAS A DOG. The damn thing couldn't print on a straight line, was made of thin, thin plastic, had cartridges that cost more than the damn printer... and all my years of loyalty to the HP name went whooooooooshhhhh. That was about the time they started making computers.

How much did you pay for the HP 9871A? How much did you pay for the POS in the late 90s?

If you pay good money, you get good stuff. HPs midrange lasers are good quality.

Re:Gimmick (2, Insightful)

iamhigh (1252742) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838715)

agreed. I currently am in charge of about 60 printers. Mostly HP. Ranging from LaserJet 1xxx up to 4350. We still have several 2100's running strong at almost 200,000 pages.

But about the worst printer ever was a few HP multifunctions. I also hate HP computers, drivers, software, and their website. If it were not for quality printers I wouldn't ever buy an HP anything. I also feel their quality has gone down, but for the price I can't find a better product.

I just now realized that my second para pretty much makes me sure I don't want HP trying to take the lead for linux adoption.

Re:Gimmick (5, Insightful)

Kyle (4392) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838321)

Yeah, thought that the moment I saw it. I think nearly everyone has figured out that holding your arms up to touch the screen for more than a couple of minutes is a no go.

It's going to be a multi-touch screen that replaces your traditional keyboard that makes multi-touch on a PC work.

We're already working with the cognitive disassociation of mouse/tablet operation, so on a laptop, just replace the whole keyboard and trackpad with a touchscreen that changes depending on requirements. Standard display would look just like a keyboard and trackpad, with dead areas where your wrists would normally rest, and would give you standard functionality.

Touch a button located between the trackpad and the keyboard, and all of a sudden the whole area is one big multi-touch track pad.

Problems with this are cost, if the whole are has to be glass, also weight, heat possibly from the lightsource beneath the display, and additional bulk.

And of course this will be doomed to fail, like so many other Apple products, because the slashdot crowd are genetically opposed to any keyboard functionality that doesn't have the same feel and *click* of an IBM Model 101 keyboard. :-p

Re:Gimmick (2, Interesting)

Wingman 5 (551897) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838461)

You mean something like this? http://www.artlebedev.com/everything/optimus-tactus/ [artlebedev.com]

Re:Gimmick (1)

Kyle (4392) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838523)

Yup, that looks like it. Very convincing concept art, now someone just needs to build it. :-)

Re:Gimmick (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24838581)

No, he means something like this: http://www.fingerworks.com/. Oh, that's rights, Apple bought all their patents...and is now sitting on the technology.

Re:Gimmick (1)

arth1 (260657) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838907)

Patents? Wouldn't Star Trek be considered prior art?

Re:Gimmick (4, Interesting)

Mad Merlin (837387) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838675)

And of course this will be doomed to fail, like so many other Apple products, because the slashdot crowd are genetically opposed to any keyboard functionality that doesn't have the same feel and *click* of an IBM Model 101 keyboard. :-p

Actually, taking the opposite of the Slashdot reaction is generally a good indicator for how something will do with the general public. Just look at what we thought of the iPod [slashdot.org] (rightfully so, but apparently that's not important).

...and you can have my IBM Model M over my dead body!

Re:Gimmick (0, Flamebait)

speedtux (1307149) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838357)

If HP were serious about trying to revolutionize an industry, chances are, they'd have to partner with Apple to use their patents.

Patents on what? Apple hasn't invented anything substantial. Multitouch and all that comes from others. Even the EEE PC is shipping with Macbook-like multitouch.

HP doesn't need Apple's patents, they need to copy Apple's style and marketing pizazz. Fortunately, those are not patentable. Unfortunately, HP doesn't have the corporate culture to pull it off.

Re:Gimmick (1)

abigor (540274) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838541)

Apple holds multiple multitouch patents, actually.

Re:Gimmick (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24838365)

This is something I've been wondering about for a while. Didn't Bell do a touchscreen for more than one hand? How is Apple not violating Bell's technology?

Re:Gimmick (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24838697)

I sell them as well and I want to add: They are crap. 3 out of every 10 I sell end up being bad. Quite often the screen never turns on. Just black surrounded bu fancy blue LEDs.

Re:Gimmick (1)

schauhan (1070004) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838863)

It's not. It's a huge improvement over the first version and at the rate it's evolving I'm sure multi touch is coming soon. :)

My kids - ages 3.5 and 5, have used TouchSmart and they take to touch intuitively. Touch is easier to learn than using a mouse. With a touch sensitive keyboard and other touch based controls usability will improve.

WTF? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24838087)

You may not have recognized your own weaving-in of meaning, but it comes across quite clearly if one reads just right: You want out. You want to escape the world of Windows to which Microsoft has sequestered you for the better part of two decades.

Really, because a touch-screen interface means I don't want to make Windows machines anymore.

It's time to ditch Windows and build a Linux distro around the TouchSmart UI... Your captivity of innovation under Microsoft is over. You're free. Free to invent, as you might put it.

How does this even make sense? How does the choice of OS limit innovation (save for, say, the iPhone OS)? Why would HP's TouchSmart UI work better on Linux than it does on Windows? What can Linux, as an OS, do, that Windows can't?

The whole blog post is babbling incoherence.

Bet they jump at this... (2, Interesting)

g0dsp33d (849253) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838089)

I'm a huge fan of Linux like a lot of the other people here, but I don't see this happening. Linux has made huge strides to make media work out of the box, but the average user is still either too stupid or lazy to want to install proprietary codecs (for the distros that don't automatically) or not be able to use certain media (CNN streaming videos are Windows only, AFIAK, I'm sure there are plenty of other good examples).

Most of the issues are now with third parties not releasing specs for drivers or with proprietary codecs, but the end user doesn't care about that. They want to click play and see something shiny, not go to an error page and try to manually install something. Granted a big company like HP can choose hardware carefully or write their own drivers, but they can't fix all the bells and whistles that users want.

Until there is enough momentum to force Linux compatibility with third party software, HP won't be jumping to Linux only. That's a fanboy pipedream. The best we can hope for is that they continue to make Linux boxes. Hopefully they'll be profitable and that will increase the market share. If HP goes Linux only it won't be to stick it to Microsoft. It will be to make the most money they can. Microsoft did a good job of standardizing software and adding Linux boxes will mean a lot of secondary support overhead. I hope they rapidly continue down that path, But expecting to get there overnight is simply ludicrous.

Re:Bet they jump at this... (1)

munwin99 (667576) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838489)

A couple of points... If you are paying for a Linux distro (such as what has been proposed here), the codecs can be licensed and installed. There should be no reason media doesn't "just work". Again - specifically related to this story, HP would obviously use hardware and drivers they know to work. Should be no problem with hardware. Having said all that - yeah, the story is a rabid fan-boi gone mad. I'm a Linux user/developer/lover as much as anyone, but I don't see this happening anythime soon. HP _could_ prove me wrong though, hint, hint, HP, hint...

Anonymous Coward (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24838091)

Boring
and
lame

Hope it's not like their printers (3, Funny)

telbij (465356) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838111)

Free to pay $50 for 2 ounces of ink is more like it.

linux,welcome to the same prison cell as microsoft (4, Insightful)

Z80a (971949) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838127)

Not completely sure about this, but i think the biggest problem with the windows is actually the own windows users.

They re not exactly OS experts, but they kinda command microsoft with their money, and so far they didnt quite guided it well.

I imagine what will happen when this userbase starts to commmand linux too.

Re:linux,welcome to the same prison cell as micros (1)

speedtux (1307149) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838379)

I imagine what will happen when this userbase starts to commmand linux too.

The nice thing about Linux is that it's much more modular than Windows. So, corporate America may insist on a dull Windows-like desktop, but geeks and innovative companies can do something completely different with the UI while still retaining compatibility with mainstream applications.

Re:linux,welcome to the same prison cell as micros (2, Insightful)

maxume (22995) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838509)

If only it were possible to replace the dull windows like desktop:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_shell_replacement [wikipedia.org]

And just imagine if GTK and QT worked on Windows! Or if somebody wrote and maintained a POSIX compatibility layer.

Re:linux,welcome to the same prison cell as micros (2, Insightful)

speedtux (1307149) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838933)

Your sarcasm just demonstrates your ignorance: none of the hacks you mention even come close, either in functionality or design, to the modularity of Linux.

(Mentioning the "POSIX compatibility layer" in Windows is particularly ironic, given that it works like shit.)

Re:linux,welcome to the same prison cell as micros (1)

msromike (926441) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838437)

Your generalizations hurt your credibility. That mindset is exactly why Windows is on the vast majority of desktops as opposed to some Linux variant.

Your generalization is just plain wrong as well. They are millions of smart, well-educated Windows admins and Windows users out there. They go to work every morning and get the job done and then go home.

What would make you think otherwise?

"but a blogger suggests" (4, Interesting)

east coast (590680) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838175)

You know, there are plenty of really good blogs out there but if we're going to continue to see more and more blog posts represented as legitimate news articles can we please flag them in some way so I can just chose to ignore them?

What's with the LOUD ads? (4, Insightful)

tekrat (242117) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838233)

Is it my imagination, or has everyone gone crazy with flash, and now ever web page has to have some element of it that causes your speakers to make embarassing sounds at work? Why can't websites like HP's, which you figure people will look at AT WORK, friggin' WARN people that it's going to start playing music, or give your opportunity to MUTE *before* the msuic starts playing?

If this keeps up, I'm either going to stop surfing the web entirely, or, pull my speakers out. Unfortunately, these days some machines come with internal speakers (like the iMac), so if you disconnect the external speakers you activate the internal. Guess the volume controls are there onthe computer for a reason but still, when I'm on the web I'm there to read.

If I want to watch "TV", I'll turn on the goddamned TV, thank you.

Even Slashdot's front page has started having ads appear that make noise. Can't you just wait until something that's loaded with ads, like say 'Weather.com' starts having multiple ads playing sound simultaneously? Yeah, that'll be pleasant.

Never mind Web 2.0 -- I'm starting to look fondly on Web 0.2 -- text on a grey background.

Re:What's with the LOUD ads? (2, Insightful)

Macgrrl (762836) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838473)

My work laptop has been set to mute since the day I got it. The first thing I do when I sit down to a new computer is set the "sounds set" to "none"

There's enough noise in an open plan office without having my computer squaking at me too.

Now I just need to find a reasonable compromise for my home machine where I do want sound for some things. :(

Re:What's with the LOUD ads? (4, Informative)

Bottlemaster (449635) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838633)

If this keeps up, I'm either going to stop surfing the web entirely, or, pull my speakers out.

Your solutions will work fine, but Flashblock [mozdev.org] may be more appropriate. It replaces all embedded Flash objects with buttons which, only when clicked, will download and display them.

Re:What's with the LOUD ads? (1)

Mad Merlin (837387) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838725)

Or you could, you know, not install Flash to start with. Besides a crazy amount of ads, you don't really miss anything. As for Youtube, that's what youtube-dl [arrakis.es] is for.

Touch Screen in the Kitchen? (2, Interesting)

absent_speaker (905145) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838277)

Speaking of places touchscreen would be useful, I'd love to have a touchscreen in my kitchen, maybe fold up under the cabinet and pop down when I want it. I could hook it up into my home network, maybe even have a wireless keyboard option. Or perhaps even have a keyboard built into the counter - looks like ordinary counter when the keyboard is off. Press a button to activate and a back light underneath the ceramic of the counter pops on and you can see the keyboard.

Re:Touch Screen in the Kitchen? (1)

clusterlizard (1136803) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838527)

i want one for this game [virtualhottie2.com]

PHBs never learn (0, Flamebait)

suck_burners_rice (1258684) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838289)

Yeah, that would be great, in terms of technical coolness, in terms of customer satisfaction, in terms of business sense altogether. But I strongly believe that they won't do it. They'll stick with Losedoze Shitsta, and when the next version, Losedoze Excalibur, which will be 10 times bigger, 50,000 times slower, with one tenth the features, twice the price, and infinite more times the annoyances and bugs, they'll go with that, too. And so it will be for the version after Excalibur, dubbed Losedoze Titanic. And the one after that, Losedoze Supernova, Business Professional Workstation Edition, which will be one of nearly a thousand different editions, including Home Basic Desktop Edition, Home Professional Laptop Edition, School Student Desktop Edition, School Teacher Workstation Edition, Construction Site Professional Desktop Edition, Legal Professional Weekend Hot Rod Racer Novice Edition, and many others. Which one is right for you? Entire encyclopedias will be committed to answering that question. And that great company that was started by two dudes in a garage will continue delivering that garbage on otherwise perfectly good equipment. Because PHBs never learn.

Re:PHBs never learn (1)

bds1986 (1268378) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838653)

Yeah, those multiple versions of Windows sure do suck. They should use Linux, of which there is only one distribution, and not dozens and dozens to choose from. It's not like anybody's every written a website to watch distributions of Linux and try and keep track of them all. And no Linux distribution would ever have more than one version, none of this "LTS" and "Desktop" stuff.

Here's some reading material that might help explain why Microsoft offers the versions it does:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination [wikipedia.org]

Wow... just wow. (4, Insightful)

east coast (590680) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838315)

You may not have recognized your own weaving-in of meaning, but it comes across quite clearly if one reads just right: You want out. You want to escape the world of Windows to which Microsoft has sequestered you for the better part of two decades. Ah, but you can. No longer does Bill Gates stand guard outside your cell...

What in the world makes you think that HP so desperately wants to break from MS? This is an enormous assumption. This is the assumption that just about every "year of Linux" article on Slashdot depends on and the blaring truth is that most people don't want to see MS fail. Most people don't see Gates as the evil borg. Most people don't give a damn about the bullshit OS wars. There are an extremely small number of people who have this anti-Microsoft hard on and even fewer who would be willing to buy a product just because Linux is stamped on it. HP knows this. There's a good reason they're making billions as we sit, blog and bicker about technology.

And I have a hard time taking someone seriously who acts like Bill Gates is the reason that companies offered up Windows or stayed loyal to MS. What kind of oddball reasoning could make someone make that jump in logic?

The hell? (1)

Fizzl (209397) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838327)

What the hell is the rambling vitriol in the summary? Sounds like a very bad fantasy writer wrote this.

Age before beauty, please (5, Insightful)

Duncan Blackthorne (1095849) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838333)

I'm 43 years old. I've been futzing around with computers since before the IBM model 5150 was released -- and I had the audacity to scoff at it when it did. Furthermore I shunned Windows for quite a long time, and for the most part still do -- in the form of being ultra-conservative when it comes to Windows releases (my main desktop is still running Win2K SP4). I have programming skills (out-of-date from disuse, but it's like riding a bicycle) and I work electronics for a living for my entire adult life.

Now that I've established my street cred for you young whippersnappers, let me tell you how it is:

I'm sure you've noticed how there's nothing new coming out of Hollywood? Just the same old stories, over and over again. They've even resorted to crappy old TV shows, trying to find a new angle. There are only so many ideas out there to build on, and in about 100 years, they've gone through them all at least once.

Same thing with video games: I used to repair arcade games, so I saw every game imaginable for 15 years. They too started repeating after a while, didn't they?

The same goes for Operating Systems. There's only so many ways you can engineer a user interface, because Humans are as finite as everything else in this godforsaken Universe we live in -- and what's worse, we're just slightly smarter animals than the rest of the meat on this planet. That's one of the main reasons that Windows has been so succesful (aside from marketing skills): It caters to some of the lowest common denominators of humanity, and it does it well.

I will assign MacOS as being the second place OS, and all flavors of *NIX as third place. But there is a common thread between all of them, now isn't there? It's just like Hollywood, or video games, or novels for that matter: There are only so many ways you can do a specific thing, and after a while the themes just repeat. At their most basic, all GUIs are basically the same, aren't they? There are specific details that are different, and I'm not taking technical issues like stability into account (because the average end-user doesn't give a damn about that until something goes wrong). In the final analysis, you have icons, you have a desktop, and you have a pointing device and you click on things with it. The rest is all window-dressing (excuse the poor, unintentional pun).

So: Don't be bringin' your "revolutionary OS" talk around here, laddy-buck. Now be a good boy, and get off my lawn, K?

Re:Age before beauty, please (1)

Tom90deg (1190691) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838709)

Very true. I couldn't agree with you more, there's only so many ways to use a UI interface. You click on the icons. That's it. Oh sure, you may use a mouse, or a touch screen, but you still click on the icons. You may have a fancy fold out menu that organizes the icons, but you still just CLICK on the ICONS.

Re:Age before beauty, please (1)

Creepy Crawler (680178) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838755)

I'm 43 years old. I've been futzing around with computers since before the IBM model 5150 was released -- and I had the audacity to scoff at it when it did. Furthermore I shunned Windows for quite a long time, and for the most part still do -- in the form of being ultra-conservative when it comes to Windows releases (my main desktop is still running Win2K SP4). I have programming skills (out-of-date from disuse, but it's like riding a bicycle) and I work electronics for a living for my entire adult life.

Congrats. Wanna cookie? I have a gaming machine running Win98SE. Runs faster vs framerate than others I know. I also striped it down using that remover tool.

Now that I've established my street cred for you young whippersnappers, let me tell you how it is:

I'm sure you've noticed how there's nothing new coming out of Hollywood? Just the same old stories, over and over again. They've even resorted to crappy old TV shows, trying to find a new angle. There are only so many ideas out there to build on, and in about 100 years, they've gone through them all at least once.

Most stories follow the same few plots. Its the gems that DONT come from hollywood that are the ones to see. Even "I Am Legend" was a repeat of "Omega Man", which was itself a repeat of "The Last Man on Earth". Or worse yet, the Manchurian Repeat.

But alas, it comes down to Hollywood finding that repeating high grossing movies to be a safe bet, rather than try creating new material. They're just lazy is my guess.

Same thing with video games: I used to repair arcade games, so I saw every game imaginable for 15 years. They too started repeating after a while, didn't they?

Depends. Im 26 and was in the golden videogame era. I witnessed the arcade die off. The old games were interesting.. In fact, they're still being recreated in cell phones, for-pay download services on consoles, flash video, and many other mobile targets. Though, you are somewhat right about repeating, but thats only after the tech is created. Was there a pre-Quake that was the same quality? Was there another Duke Nukem 3d that had the same irreverence? Was there a Planescape:Torment that had such multitude of ways to go through the game? Was there a RPG that elicited the emotional power of FF7? Was there a AD&D CRPG that allowed the DMs to control the world as Neverwinter Nights?

Yes, they are incremental steps, but as we learn how to connect these steps can we build the next Generation of games. To say they simly repeat and parrot "look at hollywood" is misleading. After all, many engine companies sell their engine to others so they might design the next.

The same goes for Operating Systems. There's only so many ways you can engineer a user interface, because Humans are as finite as everything else in this godforsaken Universe we live in -- and what's worse, we're just slightly smarter animals than the rest of the meat on this planet. That's one of the main reasons that Windows has been so succesful (aside from marketing skills): It caters to some of the lowest common denominators of humanity, and it does it well.

I will assign MacOS as being the second place OS, and all flavors of *NIX as third place. But there is a common thread between all of them, now isn't there? It's just like Hollywood, or video games, or novels for that matter: There are only so many ways you can do a specific thing, and after a while the themes just repeat. At their most basic, all GUIs are basically the same, aren't they? There are specific details that are different, and I'm not taking technical issues like stability into account (because the average end-user doesn't give a damn about that until something goes wrong). In the final analysis, you have icons, you have a desktop, and you have a pointing device and you click on things with it. The rest is all window-dressing (excuse the poor, unintentional pun).

Well... Why does a computer HAVE to be objects like icons, mouse and desktop? If anything, the computer is JUST input, storage, processor, and output. There's no reason why not to have a system that has advanced filter operations for all complex interactions. For example, I should be able to take a video file, aim it at the decompressor, take the decompressed output frame by frame into a OCR for text scanning, and output contexts in a text file with each line representing that frame.

Linux and such Unix machines approach the idea of an output as input, but fail on many fronts. Windows however, has no such capability or even insight on how to even direct automatic output. Mac is similar as the idea on that platform is "Users are stupid. keep them away from stuff we dont approve".

Though, I do forget who exactly said it, but I heard that Windows is the reason why we're years behind OS development. I mean, if it wasnt sanctified by MS, it just wasnt done. I recall countless people gnashing their teeth when corporate decision went from DOS to win95. Nearly everybody had a drop in productivity... something about being able to do more stuff in console than click-point-click-drag-point ad absurdum. I still know people with apps in DOS(no overlying windows.. MSDOS 6.22 only) because it just works. It also runs 2.0GHz cpu.

Just because YOU cant think of a new concept of an OS doesnt mean it cannot be done.. Im still waiting for my LCARS OS.

Re:Age before beauty, please (1)

asackett (161377) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838909)

Uh... I'm older than you and still write code every day, so your street cred is shit with me. A UI is not an operating system, and an operating system is not a UI.

Unix wrawks, period.

Go back to your blankie and the nice lady will bring you a cookie. Thank you.

Does the tux have thc in? (4, Funny)

sleeponthemic (1253494) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838351)

Anybody else find it amusing that those who take Linux seriously to the point of delusion (often caught posting these idealistic "head-in-the-clouds" diatribes) have become the slashdot equivalent of hippies?

Re:Does the tux have thc in? (1)

Shamenaught (1341295) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838745)

True, but I've seen equally deluded ranting from Windows and Mac users.

Windows is possibly laced with heroin. It slows the users down and they can't seem to be able to quit, even when they want to. Usage is also likely to lead to an early death through heart attack.

I find Macs, however, to be more likely to contain cocaine. The users similarly can't quit, but you don't get many mac users who want to quit like some windows users do. Macs are also trendier, with a hefty price tag to match.

Of course, anyone who's ever heard of a speedball [wikipedia.org] will understand the risk people using Bootcamp [wikipedia.org] are taking

Desktop...laptop....tablet (1)

fermion (181285) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838383)

Who would have thought all those years ago, when everyone was whining how important it was for a computer to be expandable, and configurable, and upgradable, that laptops sales would achieve parity, on a per unit basis, in 2008. This happened, of course, because most consumer, and many enterprise customers, don't significantly expand their computers. And though internal hard drives and the like might be cheaper, most people will simply choose to plug in these devices, just like a printer. Now that every computer has a decent high speed external port, not just macs, we see laptops for everyone.

The question to me then is how far off is the tablet, and will it be running Windows. Right now, as far as I can tell, most desktops are running Windows, and will continue to. The two reasons for this is desktops are cheap to supply to ever worker, and Windows has a huge number of legacy applications. It is the same reason big iron is still around.

At home, though, people seem to want cheap simple machines. Laptops are cheap and simple. As prices for touch displays and solid state memory fall, however, we could find ourselves in a world where a tablet is cheaper to deliver than a laptop, and in that world an good interface is going to be everything. A good interface and a cheap or free OS. I can't imagine that anyone would pay $50 for the OS on this $200 machine.

So yes, HP will continue to ship desktops and laptops that are windows based, but I believe we are five years away from the tablet for home use, and MS does not have a compelling product to run on it. If tablets begin to sell they will hack something together, just like they did for the OLPC, but if companies like Apple and HP sell at the high and low end of the market, it might be hard for MS to break in. Then we might have a nearly MS free market segment, and interesting things might happen.

When are people going to learn? (1)

stubear (130454) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838391)

HP, Dell, et al don't care about selling Linux, they care about selling computers. If linux helps then so be it. So far, Windows has been what helps sell computers given all the application compatibility that's out there. If the OSS proponents would pull their heads out of their asses and listen to the potential customers then perhaps things will change. As long as these developers insist on dictating how things are going to be then the rest of the world is going to ignore them as well.

Re:When are people going to learn? (1)

Shamenaught (1341295) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838557)

Very good point! It's also worth bearing in mind how resource-hungry windows is. Which do manufacturers want their customers using: Something that users really want a higher-end machine to run, or something that'll run comfortably on the cheapest machine they stock?

The blog is right (1)

A.K.A_Magnet (860822) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838393)

HP could do it (or even hire RedHat or Canonical to do it for them). And yes, it would mean more control for HP.

The question is: do they want it? Do they want more control, or do they just want to follow where Microsoft is headed and eat the leftovers? ;)

Of course, it would mean that Windows software, that most PC users just expect to run, wouldn't work anymore. But let's look at this differently: the situation is not going to change. Windows software is not going to run on other OS'es (even with Wine or emulators, it will never be perfect). Thus Dell, HP and Lenovo are stuck in a vicious circle: continue selling Windows, because it's what people expect, any it will remain what people expect; or break the pattern: sell another OS and tell people it's different but just as good. You know, most sane people are not fanboys and don't care what OS they have as long as it gets the job done. And guess what, GNU/Linux applications get the job done just as much as their Windows counterparts, and would be even better with some big companies supporting it further. Then, why should HP keep selling an OS that limits them? I can't believe HP is satisfied with selling Windows -- or any other tech company for that matter.

Let's imagine Dell or HP decides to replace Windows with, say, a customized Ubuntu-based GNU/Linux distro. Then, only then, people will come to know that PC != Windows, and that just like there is "Mac software" (ie, software for Mac OS X) that won't run Windows and vice-versa, there is a third category of consumer software that runs "Lunix or was it Leenux?" (ie GNU/Linux). The name matters little, because the model of distribution of software on GNU/Linux distributions is very different from what exists on proprietary platforms: the package managers and repositories make it easy. In most cases, you don't try to get a specific application anymore, you try to get the application your distribution has chosen for the task you want to perform. And that model, I believe, if a lot simpler to understand for most people, as soon as they are willing to let go of the unnatural habits they have caught using Windows.

So why HP and why now? Well, the TouchSmart interface sure is cool -- cool enough to warrant a big change. Since people perceive it as a massive paradigm change, you might as well use the opportunity to change OS. Remember, once one of the three big PC manufacturers will truly switch to GNU/Linux for consumer PCs (and that's possible only if they commit to it), the others will have to react in one way or another.

Will it be Dell? They distribute Ubuntu on some PCs, and even ship it with the licensed codecs, but they don't seem to me as willing to take the Apple route and compete with Microsoft frontally. Also, they don't have anything specific to offer, except pretty cheap prices.

Will it be Lenovo? Certainly not. Lenovo, now separated from IBM, does not strike me as a driving force, they are merely followers.

But it could be HP... in a sudden outbreak of common sense, a burst of memories of its past glory, out of pride and fatigue of being Microsoft's dog when it comes the consumer market... Yes it could be. HP is actually very committed to Linux, they are platinum members of the Linux Foundation (same level as IBM, Novell, Intel...). The blog poster thinks TouchSmart (or its next iteration, now) could be the opportunity to make the jump. To commit further. It would be risky but the rewards could be great, not only for HP, but for the whole industry.

Now why is the response so negative here on Slashdot? Easy. I have come to understand that most Slashdotters haven't tried a GNU/Linux distro for years. They still think it's 2001. They still think the "Linux Desktop" year didn't happen -- because in their mind it was to be a year when, magically, half the PCs worldwide would have started running GNU/Linux. No, it's just a question of maturity. There are some rough edges, but Windows has some to. Nothing can't be worked out, especially with the commitment of HP or Dell. For Slashdotters, Linux must remain on the server. Games. Another thing the Slashdotter can't live without: I'll tell you, we will get games on GNU/Linux as soon as it gets market share, which means back to point one, the vicious circle thingy -- and a big PC seller committing to Linux.

Yes, the blog post is somehow naive, we all know it's not going to happen. I'm sure the poster does too. But not because it's not viable, or not the right thing to do for the long term. HP is not the company they used to be. They're like Apple before Steve Jobs came back. It's not going to happen because HP's management doesn't have the balls to take risks, whatever the reward. And it would be a great one. Don't we all strive for a world where GNU/Linux, Mac and Windows shares are around 30%? I guess some people don't.

Re:The blog is right (1)

timberwolf753 (1064802) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838533)

This is a well thought out post. Good job. Now hopefully this will make my make my karma go up.

Re:The blog is right (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24838691)

hopefully this will make my make my karma go up

"make my make my"? With editing skills like yours... good luck with that karma thing. ;)

Re:The blog is right (1)

Mad Merlin (837387) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838811)

Will it be Dell? They distribute Ubuntu on some PCs, and even ship it with the licensed codecs, but they don't seem to me as willing to take the Apple route and compete with Microsoft frontally. Also, they don't have anything specific to offer, except pretty cheap prices.

I think you underestimate the power of cheap prices. Witness Wal-Mart, for example.

However, equating Linux with cheap probably isn't the way to victory, as most people see cheap as poor quality. In contrast, Linux is much better quality than the competitors.

ASUS EEE "Monitor" (1)

speedtux (1307149) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838405)

I doubt at those prices HP is creating a revolution.

Much more interesting is the EEE Monitor PC, which looks to be around $500, is a whole lot sleeker than that HP thing, and also function as a PC. Given ASUS' history on the EEE, there's a good chance it will run Linux.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/05/asus-intros-the-eee-monitor-all-in-one-pc-says-more-eee-models/ [engadget.com]

Swap One Dinosaur for Another? No Thanks! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24838409)

So, in the age of multicore computers, you want HP to dump one dinosaur that somehow escaped from a 20th century museum of ancient technology for another that escaped from the same museum? LOL! What are you, an OSontologist from hell?

There is indeed a crisis of innovation in Silicon Valley. It's a deep malaise caused by the aging baby boomers who drove computer innovation during the last half of the 20th century but lately have run of ideas simply because they are too old and set in their ways. Those old computer geeks are still in charge at the various universities/labs and their idols and gods (e.g., Alan Turing, Charles Babbage, Lady Ada Lovelace, Frederic Brooks, etc.) are still worshipped by the computer academic community. Their antiquated and obsolete perspective on computing is being taught to the younger generation as I write. (Mod me down and see if I care)

IMO, what the computer world needs is not more of the same crap but a seismic paradigm shift and there is only one way to do it. The old computer nerds must be forced into retirement and new leadership must be brought in. The new mandate should be to reevaluate the computing models and paradigms of the last century and reassess their continued adequacy to the nasty problems that the industry is currently facing, such as the parallel programming and software reliability crises. If they are found to be inadequate (no doubt about it in my opinion), they should be replaced. Ask yourself this simple question: How is the Turing Machine relevant to parallel computing and how is it helping to solve the crisis? Answer: It is neither relevant nor helping. Telling it like I see it, as always.

Rebel Science News [blogspot.com]

Re:Swap One Dinosaur for Another? No Thanks! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24838735)

cool story bro

Its called GRUB (1)

segagman (1234136) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838543)

its already there and with harddrive space so cheap why not give the triboot option "splashtop" (i.e. linux bios) a made for hp linux distro (without the xandros eeepc repositories BS i.e. DEBIAN) and an istall of vista modori xp virus pron poop.... well you know were i stand. now that would be true customer service...and start a wiki so people wouldn't be calling bob in India so much!

I'm not sure why it needs its own distro (1)

Zorque (894011) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838571)

You could easily just write a mouse driver for any distribution there is. That, and the author of this article is absolutely insane and thinks Linus Torvalds is the second coming of Christ or something. It's not a lifestyle, really. It's just an operating system, and porting it to one device or another isn't going to change the world.

Dear RobotsDinner, (1)

fahrbot-bot (874524) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838579)

Put down the Cool Aid, take a few deep breaths and take a nap.

Besides, the last thing a PC vendor wants is their own distro (Windows or Linux) to support on their thin profit margins. As for HP, I loved running their high-end hardware and HP-UX 11, but they're not really the "invention" machine they used to be.

Please stop pushing linux like this. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24838603)

1. What the hell does linux have to do with this? For eff sake, we need editors who filter out garbage like this. Jumping to "make it run linux" every time new hardware emerges is getting reeeeally old. No offense, but I don't think linux has "the right stuff" for a system like this.

2. Everybody knows arms get tired after pushing against a touchscreen held in the typical stand-up monitor position for more than a couple minutes. Touchscreen is awesome (assuming extremely light touch sensitivity, not pound-against-the-screen-and-hope-it-registers), but it only works well and feels natural if you're looking down on it and/or holding it in your hand. Think of it like a clipboard - you'd never stand a clipboard on its "legs" and write on it - you hold it or lay it flat on the desk.

"HP recommends Windows Vista Home Premium" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24838701)

"HP recommends Windows Vista Home Premium" splattered all over their advertising material leads me to believe that there isn't a chance in hell that HP will release a linux-only computer, even a linux-first computer. They're not about innovating (not any more, at HP); they're about moving boxes and crap printers.

The future is now (1)

CrazyJim1 (809850) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838713)

And it is a big ass table.

A blog post??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24838739)

WHAT THE HELL? This is SLASHDOT not DIGG! What is becoming of the world?

HP? Software? (4, Insightful)

DavidD_CA (750156) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838773)

This fanboy wants HP to attempt to write *more* software?

He obviously hasn't ever used an HP interface for scanners, printers, fax machines, or just any other 250 MB download just to send something to a printer.

Besides, most of the magic on this device is Vista running in Tablet mode, with a few little skins that HP threw together in their typical half-ass fashion. If I got one of these devices, I'd likely format it and just let Vista Ultimate do its thing, running in Media Center mode with a few nifty add-in gadgets.

Re:HP? Software? (1)

mistahkurtz (1047838) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838867)

ever hear of hpux?

HP moving TO Windows for embedded MFP firmware (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24838859)

As someone somehow related with the HP MFP development process, I will say that HP is putting more devices on Windows, from setups that were previously HP-UX based. As seen in the Edgeline series of MFPs (really, starting there), HP includes a copy of Windows CE with the firmware. The interface is larger than on other MFPs, but it was designed to mimic the HP-UX setup, which was still perfectly functional, and could have been expanded to the larger screen. HP has ceased development on several products because they aren't using Windows CE now.

All this is to say, I don't think HP is trying to get away from Microsoft. Microsoft is a large partner and client for HP, and while HP will work on Linux systems as a means of being fairly diverse (but I fear some of managements short sighted ness is stifling/removing some diversity), they do still really like Microsoft, and are using .net C# extensively on the Imaging side of the Business.

Posted Anonymously because of some NDA papers that I don't think fully apply, but it can't hurt to be safe.

Linux as desktop OS == FAILURE (1, Insightful)

edivad (1186799) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838889)

I am certainly not a Windows fan, but the failure of Linux as a desktop OS is pretty much evident. After 15 years, the adoption as far as desktop OS goes is in the neighbor of 2%. So no, I don't see Linux in a desktop happening anymore, although I had hoped back then.

to quote Chronicles of Riddick (1)

Tumbleweed (3706) | more than 6 years ago | (#24838925)

"Kill the beast, NOW!"

Perhaps the HP of the 90s... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#24838943)

... but we're talking about the New HP. Remember how Carly destroyed what was left of HP's morale? Now, with Hurd calling the shots, dollar signs glimmering in his eyes, what's good for the shareholders is good for HP. And that means slashing budgets, more partnering with *cough* established industry leaders *cough* like Microsoft, who, well, make us a lot of money every time we sell a PC.

Sorry, but you'll have to look elsewhere for innovation. If it's already a Microsoft product, HP will not reinvent it. Guaranteed.

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