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Gamers Are Fitter (and Sadder) Than You Think

CmdrTaco posted more than 5 years ago | from the crying-on-a-treadmill dept.

Role Playing (Games) 341

missb writes "According to NewScientist.com, online gamers are no 'couch potatoes'. US researchers quizzed players of the role-playing game EverQuest II, and found adult gamers to be in better physical condition than the average American. The downside, however, was the gamers reported more cases of depression and substance abuse than their compatriots."

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341 comments

Erm... (5, Funny)

clang_jangle (975789) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053325)

FTA:

Researchers at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles, the Palo Alto Research Center, also in California, and the University of Delaware in Newark, quizzed 7000 players of the role-playing game EverQuest II about their physical and mental health. Participants were offered a specially created virtual weapon as an incentive - the "Greatstaff of the Sun Serpent". The researchers then combined the survey responses with statistics about players' online activities and playing habits.

And we know the results are accurate, because they're working with a demographic famous for honest and forthright self-disclosure.

IOW: DUH!

Re:Erm... (5, Funny)

i_liek_turtles (1110703) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053369)

If anything, most of the players' right arms are in better physical condition than the average American's.

Re:Erm... (5, Interesting)

cayenne8 (626475) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053445)

Well, if by 'better shape' they mean less obese that the avg. American, it is probably due to them being too engrossed by the game to go buy junk food. They're not in better shape, they've just starving a bit more than the average US citizen.

Re:Erm... (4, Informative)

garcia (6573) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053725)

They're not in better shape, they've just starving a bit more than the average US citizen.

When I considered myself a "gamer" (Q1CTF) I was a Division I athlete attending a state university with ready access to tons of junk food and recreational enhancements that I readily consumed in greater amounts than I could even again. But because I was in college, and working out twice a day 5.5x a week, I was in great shape. I have a feeling that while the age range for those that consider themselves "gamers" is widening, the majority of people are still HS and college aged kids who have a bit more of an active lifestyle than the rest of us that work in some boring office tower all day and then retire home for an evening of various PC or console games.

Re:Erm... (2, Interesting)

dwiget001 (1073738) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054313)

Ii play EQ2, have for years.

I am also a competitive fencer (olympic style sword-fighting).

I am in very good shape.

I also rarely drink (a beer or two maybe every 2 or 3 months)

About the only substance I could be called upon for abusing would be water (I live in Florida, gotta stay very well hydrated).

And, gosh darn it, I am very happy.

Obviously, they didn't survey me.

Re:Erm... (1)

Artuir (1226648) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053777)

Wow, you're rather optimistic aren't you? Everyone's a fatty! All gamers are fat asses!

Christ.

Re:Erm... (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25054741)

Wow, you're rather optimistic aren't you? Everyone's a fatty! All gamers are fat asses!

Christ.

Jesus posts on Slashdot?! OMG when did you get back?

Re:Erm... (4, Interesting)

Hatta (162192) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053891)

You're not kidding. I can't count the meals I've missed because I wanted "just one more turn!" at Civilization.

Re:Erm... (1)

Spy der Mann (805235) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054157)

They're not in better shape, they've just starving a bit more than the average US citizen.

Wrong. They're effectively cutting the excess calories that the average american consumes. And I don't think they eat less protein and vitamins than the average american.

Re:Erm... (1)

gad_zuki! (70830) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054393)

I dont think that's it. Its easy to snack while playing an MMO.

I think the unspoken issue here is that America's obesity problem is tied in with the poorer classes. The poorer you are the better chance you have of being obese.

Gamers who can dedicate 4+ hours a day to a game tend to be middle class. They can afford the time, hardware, etc to play these games. A lot of mmo gamers are students and youth generally translates into health. Computer gaming, as opposed to console gaming, has a couple barriers to entry that have been eliminated on consoles.

This isnt a surprised find to me. Id be more interested in a report like this for console gamers. I think then you'd see it fall more in line with our national obesity statistics.

Re:Erm... (0)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054649)

I think it's very foolish to think of this as only a
"poor mans problem". Out here in the burbs I see
plenty of Hutts and Hutts in training waddling around.

Being prone to excess is a sort of state of mind.

All Americans "eat dirt", not just the poor ones.

Re:Erm... (1)

ObsessiveMathsFreak (773371) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054113)

I don't see why. The left hand controls in game movements in most setups. The right hand typically just presses the odd button or waggles the mouse.

Re:Erm... (2, Funny)

kv9 (697238) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054379)

The right hand typically just presses the odd button or waggles the mouse.

oh you bet it waggles!

Re:Erm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25054383)

One day someone will explain it to you, and you'll never leave the basement again.

Re:Erm... (5, Insightful)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053437)

"Hey, answer this questionnaire and get mad 3p1c wepp0nz!"

"Sure. Multiple choice, excellent. A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A Now give me my sodding purple."

Re:Erm... (1)

JasterBobaMereel (1102861) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053605)

As in all of these surveys do they disclose how many people refused to answer, and how did they keep the answers honest

I love the surveys of teenagers that ask them questions about illegal activities, most of them will answer one thing in a group, another on their own and another again with adults

Re:Erm... (1)

Kharny (239931) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054427)

Wow, that sounds almost as good a questionnaire as the one i got on my flight to the US, with such great highlights as:
-Are you smuggling illegal arms into the country?
-Does your luggage contain any illegal drugs or alcohol?

It was hilarious, too bad i can't find it online atm.

Re:Erm... (1)

Syberz (1170343) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053909)

They are being honest! Most of the EQ screenshots I saw showed no obese avatars!

Oh, they were supposed to answer what their real physical state was... oops

Re:Erm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25054179)

The probably polled 4chan. You can't get any more accurate than that!

Re:Erm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25054737)

The researchers failed to note that "better shape", for the purposes of the study, meant "closer to perfectly spherical".

Depression (5, Funny)

MrSmith0011000100110 (1344879) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053327)

I'd be depressed too if my level 9 elf lost the holy mantle of protection in a battle against a level 15 ranger. I mean come on now....In real life I'd destroy him with my +20 sword.

Hey, there's a difference between use and abuse (5, Interesting)

Nursie (632944) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053333)

Not that I do either, but the fact of illegal substance use is not evidence of a problem itself, more an indicator that the person has little regard for this area of law, and may be disconnected from society/not buy into its values. This links up with depression and dissatisfaction.

Re:Hey, there's a difference between use and abuse (4, Interesting)

b96miata (620163) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053411)

It's a bias you *always* have to account for in articles about public health, unless they come from the most unbiased clinical sources possible. (and even then, summaries by mass media usually throw the abuse moniker in)

To a large portion of the media/"public health" professionals, any use of an illegal substance, even moderate and responsible, is "abuse". These are the same people who define 5 drinks in 24 hours as a "binge".

Re:Hey, there's a difference between use and abuse (5, Insightful)

Nursie (632944) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053519)

It's a shame, because it affects the conclusion. IMHO it should be -

Gamers disaffected with society, resulting in depression, supporting evidence consisting of substance use...

When what we'll get is

"Gamers depressed! Turn to drugs!" or "Games depress people and are a gateway to drug use!" or "Drug use causes depression and can lead to gaming!"

Re:Hey, there's a difference between use and abuse (5, Insightful)

flonker (526111) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053917)

or "Depressed people more likely to self medicate with drugs and computer games!"

Correlation is not causation.

Re:Hey, there's a difference between use and abuse (1)

DarthVain (724186) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053639)

Article is a bit light on the details...

Substance abuse? Could that just be gamers smoking pot, 'cause you know like that never happens!

As for depression and the like well there could be a number of reasons for that.

However consider the demographic. Mostly boys, and mostly younger. That may skew the results a bit.

Also when making comparisons to the "average American" it might not make sense if the average American is a 50 year old as compared to a 25 year old average.

In any case not enough detail in the article to make it worth anything.

true.. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25053343)

i'm so high right now i can't even play WoW..

Everquest 2? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25053363)

They could have at least picked a game that didn't suck.

Re:Everquest 2? (2, Insightful)

nicolas.kassis (875270) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053457)

I must admit that the demographic for EQ2 is very different then for say GTA. Even WoW has a much younger audience.

Re:Everquest 2? (2, Interesting)

Jim_Maryland (718224) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053701)

I haven't seen demographics from any of the games you listed, but I play WoW and most of the guild members (approximately 35 on regularly) and friends (6 real life, approximately 15 unguilded or other guilds) I play with are at least 30 years old. I'd put a quarter of them over 40 and one is 60. Now I realize it is a small sample, but so far my experience is that WoW doesn't have a younger audience.

Re:Everquest 2? (1)

ArhcAngel (247594) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053741)

WOW! (the word not the game) them EverQuest 2 players must be downright geriatric. All of the WoW (the game not the word) players I know are over 30.

Fitter sadder (1)

TobyRush (957946) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053373)

In other news, the Panic Office reports that section 917 may have been hit. Activate the following procedure:

New exercise regimen (5, Funny)

NoisySplatter (847631) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053409)

From the article:

The average gamer also engages in vigorous exercise once or twice a week, which the researchers say is more than most Americans.

This just in! Both chair throwing and jumping around like a monkey count as vigorous exercise.

Re:New exercise regimen (1)

tixxit (1107127) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054129)

Vigorous exercise once a week is more than most Americans? Sheez, it's not like the bar was really set high.

Fitter than your average American (5, Funny)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053417)

Alegory:

- Faster than your average snail
- Larger than your average sand grain
- Truthier than your average Scientology book
- Funnier than your average /. post

Re:Fitter than your average American (1)

magus_melchior (262681) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053959)

You forgot: Smarter than your average bear.

The lack of opposable thumbs meant that the chronic pick-a-nick basket thief wasn't well suited to gaming.

Re:Fitter than your average American (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25054049)

Smarter than the average bear?

That reminds me... (2, Insightful)

red star hardkore (1242136) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053421)

I need to get more diazepam for my next clan battle in counterstrike.

Re:That reminds me... (3, Insightful)

arth1 (260657) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054139)

Speaking of other games -- who made the erroneous extrapolation that what applies to Everquest II players will necessarily apply to "gamers"? The "researchers", the slashdot submitter or the editor?

Perhaps there is a common cause for depression, playing EQ2 and being "healthy" (or did they mean "not overweight", and made another erroneous extrapolation?), and perhaps not.

In any case, this doesn't say anything about gamers in general. To use a car analogy for a change, this is like studying a group of people who own a Ford Explorer, and then extrapolate this to draw conclusion about drivers.

Re:That reminds me... (1)

FX114 (1366561) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054683)

The problem with your analogy is that people don't own many cars, so when you study people that have a Ford Explorer, that's pretty much it. Games are much cheaper than that, so when you survey someone that plays EQ, chances are he plays a lot of other games as well.

Wait a second... (4, Funny)

adml_shake (1196483) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053425)

since when has an evercrack player ever gotten away long enough to score some drugs? Or have a way to pay for them? Most of the ones I know of can't stop long enough to make the walk out of the basement to go raid the medicine cabinet in the bathroom.

Proof (4, Funny)

MyLongNickName (822545) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053439)

I am about to prove that the average Slashdotter is more healthy, and gets more sex than the general public.

Please reserve this thread for discussions of your physical fitness level and love life. I will start.

First, before work every morning, I run a marathon. On the weekends, I do triathlons(one each day). Ofcourse, I do this while carrying 12kg dumbbells in each hand (I drop to 8kg when swimming).

Each evening I pleasure three supermodels except during lent when I drop to one due to my highly religious beliefs.

Anyone else have any data to add to this research?

Re:Proof (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25054735)

Yeah I often do what you said, too.

Substance abuse? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25053467)

When you pull the spin and silly connotations out of these terms, you realise that over-eating is a closer fit for "substance abuse" than, say, smoking a spliff once in a while. The logic people use when thinking about this stuff doesn't really do it for me.

Of course they're depressed... (3, Insightful)

the_skywise (189793) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053471)

They never WIN...

YAAAYYY!!! I'm level 8...

ooh... but I'm not level 9...

Games like that are a sharp contrast of what you have/haven't achieved until you top out the game... and then it's on to the next game.

Re:Of course they're depressed... (1)

MyLongNickName (822545) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053525)

Hah! I am level 822545 while you haven't even crossed 200,000 yet. I can't imagine how depressed YOU are!

Lose weight fast (1)

ezwip (974076) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053507)

A steady diet of WoW and Crystal Meth will trim the body good.

Re:Lose weight fast (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25053869)

A steady diet of WoW and Crystal Meth will trim the body good.

You joke, but .. I've actually done this.

I spent two years doing almost nothing but playing WoW and smoking meth. Yes, I lost tons of weight (too much in fact). Yes, the WoW grindfest was actually entertaining in that state of mind. Yes, when I quit meth, I realized how boring WoW was.

In related news (1)

eebra82 (907996) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053509)

In related news, a Norwegian study shows that World of WarCraft players at level 60 are only half as depressed as those with level 30 characters.

Wrong logic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25053581)

I think they're looking at this from the wrong perspective. You'd have to BE on drugs to play everquest 2. Its not that gaming is causing drug use.

You need lots of amphetamines.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25053585)

...to play EverQuest for 50 hours straight. It's called EverCrack for a reason.

But are they more productive? (1)

amayain (1186069) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053589)

are they comfortable? do they not drink too much? have regular exercise at the gym?

heyho. (3, Insightful)

apodyopsis (1048476) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053623)

so people suffer from depression and substance abuse when they spend most of their time indoors by themselves and most of their friends are virtual?

in what fashion is this news?

any doctor from the 50s could of predicted this given the symptoms/way of life of a hard core gamer. they'd of been horrified to learn that most of us sit in a chair for hours at a time hammering like poor possessed souls on little rows of buttons. as for junk food and long range commutes - who knows what they would of thought?

Re:heyho. (2, Insightful)

oxidiser (1118877) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053973)

I've often wondered why gamers are the pariahs of the home entertainment world. It's much more acceptable to society if you lay on your couch all night and stare at the idiot box. I'll bet if you described the two activities to a doctor from the 50s he'd be slightly more concerned about the person doing literally NOTHING than the gamer who has to at least use his brain and move (albeit very little). I play MMOs and I'm not "hammering like [a] poor possessed soul" on my keyboard. What the hell does that even mean? People who don't play MMOs sure have a funny view of those that do. I'd wager more than 99.9% of us don't waste all of our time playing games, don't live in basements, aren't virgin, aren't fat, etc. But then again, probably most of the people who pick on gamers are TV watchers I mentioned above and they want to feel better about their sedentary activity of choice.

Re:heyho. (1)

apodyopsis (1048476) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054039)

fair comment. but that "hammering on keys in a chair" I actually meant as a working place! sorry I guess I should of specified that I meant the change in the working demographic from the 50s. doh! it was clear in my head anyhow....

good comment about couch potatoes..

Re:heyho. (2, Funny)

kv9 (697238) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054479)

if you hate your job that much why don't you quit and go do something adventurous. like, I don't know, windowcleaning skyscrapers. that sounds fucking XXXXXXXXXXXXTREME!

Re:heyho. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25054203)

so people suffer from depression and substance abuse when they spend most of their time indoors by themselves and most of their friends are virtual?

Have you ever considered that your logic may be backward?

Perhaps depression and afflictions such as Social Anxiety Disorder drive people to play online games. You don't have to interact with people face-to-face, but can still be a "productive" member of a society.

That means... (1)

LoyalOpposition (168041) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053629)

Their tendency to fitness caused them to abuse substances, and that caused them to attempt online games, and the subsequent grind cause them to become depressed. Ummm. The crowds they met online pressured them to start drug use, and they had to start running from the law. Ummm. Their drug abuse caused them to meet people who were into online games, and that caused... Darn. This correlation / causality stuff is hard.

-Loyal

To be fit or an addict... (1)

ArIck (203) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053661)

... is a question people should ask themselves. Which is more worth: be fitter and an addict, or be slightly obese and not an addict with no depression problems.

I know what I would choose!

Addiction?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25053705)

Study finds that Video game Addicts are prone to being addicted to other things, like drugs. News at eleven.

If games had adbreaks (1)

sleeponthemic (1253494) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053765)

.. the results would be similar to that of a couch potato.

Re:If games had adbreaks (1)

nakajoe (1123579) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054189)

A fairly insightful comment; a game and take and hold interest for far longer than a TV, given the lack of breaks in interesting content.

No doubt (1)

yamamushi (903955) | more than 5 years ago | (#25053905)

I don't doubt this for one second, from all the coughing and bong water bubbling I've heard over xbox live while playing GTA4.

Gamers also found to be Hotter than average (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25054013)

The study also found a surprisingly large proportion of gamers to be female, who overall had much larger breasts and smaller waists than the average American female. Males in the study had penises ranging from 2 inches longer than average to "epic" sized. 90% of males in the scientific study had six pack abs.

Do your part to save the economy (1)

sjonke (457707) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054015)

Put all your money into video games, drugs and therapy and give our economy a boost!

kind of makes sense (0)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054109)

addictive personality -> substance abuse

(yes, i said abuse, not use, as no one NEEDS to use mind-altering drugs substances on a regular basis unless they are mentally unfit)

addictive personality -> online gaming

online gaming is nothing more than digital crack

now mod me into oblivion

Self-selected survey? (2, Interesting)

argent (18001) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054121)

I bet if you performed a self-selected survey on any group you'd get slightly better than average results.

on sadness and substance abuse (5, Interesting)

rgviza (1303161) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054235)

I'd agree with this. I just cancelled all of my accounts.

I started mmo gaming to hide from a failing marriage, after marriage counseling failed. My wife started getting meaner and meaner, so I started gaming to bury myself in my office and hide from it.

We recently decided to get a divorce. I dropped all of my accounts, started working out again and I've never been more happy in my life. "Hardcore" gamers are usually either escaping from something, or addicted to gaming. Neither situation is conducive to happiness. I'd guess that the ones who are escaping from something are more often also abusing(caffiene, pot, beer, whatever).

I don't think gaming directly causes the unhappiness, it's caused by the circumstances surrounding the gaming. I started gaming *because* I was unhappy. Obsessive compulsive gamers tend to lose their jobs and families because of the gaming. My marriage was already on life support so it was sort of reversed.

Casual gaming is also pretty prevalent and that's perfectly healthy. I'd bet that they'd get much different results interviewing casual gamers.

I quit because now I have better stuff to do and the source of my pain is gone. I'm also looking better because I cook my own food out of fresh ingredients ;). I feel really bad for addicted people. They have to hit rock bottom to quit. I never had to do that. Well actually, it's probably more accurate to say I hit rock bottom before I started gaming.

-Viz

Re:on sadness and substance abuse (0, Troll)

mandelbr0t (1015855) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054387)

actually, it's probably more accurate to say I hit rock bottom before I started gaming.

Getting a divorce is rock-bottom? I bet you didn't spend any time on the street. Hint: don't try to empathize with depressed gamers, at least not if your message is "I'm better now that I'm out" ;=P

Re:on sadness and substance abuse (4, Funny)

kv9 (697238) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054619)

started mmo gaming to hide from a failing marriage, after marriage counseling failed. [snip] We recently decided to get a divorce. I dropped all of my accounts, started working out again and I've never been more happy in my life.

I fucking hate people like you. you just fuck up online games with your lack of commitment. why don't you just hit the bottle like a normal person would do. or drugs. something. you know, some of us do actually enjoy gaming and don't use it as a filler for a void fucking life.

you failed at marriage. you failed at gaming. good luck "working out". hope that works out for you.

*groan*

bullshit (1, Insightful)

DragonTHC (208439) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054257)

because we all know how well players of MMORPG games, especially eq2, represent themselves as truthfully as possible.

they're all lying about their fitness. They're playing these sort of games because they're unhappy about their body image. So they create a new one in-game.

The study is bullshit, it is completely worthless. The researchers might have thought about that before investing the time and money.

This is like studying how many monkeys would fling poo if given the chance.

Re:bullshit (1)

DragonTHC (208439) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054303)

on second thought, the study might be accurate since, eq2 players rarely eat anything other than crystal meth sandwiches.

co3k (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25054287)

tto much formality 4 change to 40,000 workstations are just way over politics openly. hand...don't troubles of Walnut

What do *you* do to stay in shape? (1)

Chief_Wiggum (1341031) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054347)

I attend a Uechi-ryu Karate club twice a week at my college. It keeps me in shape, and gets me pumped to blast a few baddies in Team Fortress 2.

Depression? Really? (3, Funny)

lupine_stalker (1000459) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054451)

I resent the implication that we gamers suffer from problems with depression. I mean, with the amount of Ecstasy I've downed over the past 24 hours I should be well past carefree until Sunday, at least!

BMI (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25054453)

The body mass index (BMI), or Quetelet index, is a statistical measurement which compares a person's weight and height. (Wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_Mass_Index [wikipedia.org])

It is not a measurement of physical health, just a ratio which may or may not be indicative. Watch Pen and Tellers Bullshit for more on this.

Forgive me if it's already been said... (1)

Norwell Bob (982405) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054483)

But this is not news to me.

Most gamers I've met online are either hulking musclemen capable of deftly engaging multiple attackers with heavy broadswords, or extremely sexy, scantily clad women with ample busts and magical prowess.

Or dwarves.

Drug Abuse (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25054541)

The downside, however, was the gamers reported more cases of depression and substance abuse than their compatriots."

Quite true, I imagine the gamers have easier access to Workman's Elixir of Transcendence and Noxious Remedy.

Everquest II? (1)

Zazi (601795) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054591)

I think I found the reason for their drug abuse and depression. I would be depressed as hell and doing cocaine if I had to play that game, too!

Not surprising (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25054707)

"US researchers quizzed players of the role-playing game EverQuest II"

Of course they're sad, they're playing Everquest II!

Did they survey them IN PERSON? (2, Funny)

Guysmiley777 (880063) | more than 5 years ago | (#25054731)

Because if not, every male you speak to in an MMO is either 6'2", well muscled, former special forces soldier who is proficient in at least two forms of martial arts.

Unless they're pretending to be a girl for all the attention and free loot.
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  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
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