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Positive Rights News From Europe

kdawson posted about 6 years ago | from the not-all-doom-and-gloom dept.

Privacy 86

Various readers are sending in good news from Europe on the rights front. First, at the EU level, Mark.J brings word that the European Parliament has canned a number of controversial amendments to its updated Telecoms Package, which could have resulted in ISPs being forced to disconnect customers for involvement in illegal file-sharing of copyrighted material. Next, SplatMan_DK writes from Denmark on a recent ruling by the Danish High Court that means that Danes are still innocent until proven guilty in copyright cases, even if their IP address has been confirmed as the origin of P2P traffic involving copyrighted music. Finally, from Sweden, an update on the draconian so-called Lex Orwell, which would have effectively resulted in the routine wiretapping of the entire nation. Eric Blair sends a link on an agreement reached between the Swedish parliament and the sitting government on a new form for the controversial signals intelligence law. Supposedly, the sting has been taken out of the law: only the department of defense and the cabinet may request data, and they'll have to get court approval for it.

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Mr. Orwell? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25166129)

Eric Blair was a visionary, but he is dead now.

Re:Mr. Orwell? (5, Informative)

ThinkTwicePostOnce (1001392) | about 6 years ago | (#25166477)

Just to save a few visits to Wikipedia, Eric Blair is George Orwell's real name.

Encroachment upon rights held at bay (4, Insightful)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | about 6 years ago | (#25166149)

So the gradual encroachment of governmental power over the rights of citizens is slowed yet again.

But doesn't the mere fact that the government has the power to limit itself signal that such limitations are arbitrary and subject only to the whims and needs of those in power? While "protecting the children" may not be as crucial as personal privacy to some European people, isn't it just a matter of time until the priorities become reversed and the erosion of rights will again begin in earnest?

How can a government be the arbiter of rights unless it has the power to take them away?

Re:Encroachment upon rights held at bay (5, Insightful)

ThinkTwicePostOnce (1001392) | about 6 years ago | (#25166421)

There's an old saying that speaks to your question and is profoundly true:

Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.

Re:Encroachment upon rights held at bay (2, Insightful)

Daimanta (1140543) | about 6 years ago | (#25167043)

Nothing human is eternal

Eternal vigilance is an illusion

Re:Encroachment upon rights held at bay (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25167367)

Nothing human is eternal

Eternal vigilance is an illusion

takes another bong hit ... Wow man, that's like, deep.

Seriously, you do realize that eternal [merriam-webster.com] also means

2 a: continued without intermission : perpetual b: seemingly endless

Not just "infinite".

Re:Encroachment upon rights held at bay (1)

Daimanta (1140543) | about 6 years ago | (#25167539)

that doesn't make any difference whatsoever. None of these things are possible for humans.

Re:Encroachment upon rights held at bay (1)

JAZ (13084) | about 6 years ago | (#25168025)

So maybe when Thomas Jefferson said, "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.", he was actually warning us that freedom costs too much and could never be had?

Re:Encroachment upon rights held at bay (1)

Daimanta (1140543) | about 6 years ago | (#25168467)

That may not be his intention but essentailly he says that the kind of freedom he invisioned is impossible to maintain in the long run. And that was a great mistake.

Re:Encroachment upon rights held at bay (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25175863)

Can't you read? Definition b above for eternal is "seemingly endless".

This very discussion qualifies!

Obviously the meaning is that the freedom only lasts as long as the vigilance.

Duh.

Re:Encroachment upon rights held at bay (1)

wdef (1050680) | about 6 years ago | (#25182561)

It's not an anonymously-authored meme: "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." -- Thomas Jefferson

Re:Encroachment upon rights held at bay (4, Insightful)

2names (531755) | about 6 years ago | (#25166425)

Governments only have power when the populace gives it or, through complacency, allows the government to seize power and strip away the rights of the individual. If we as citizens of Planet Earth do not agressively and steadfastly defend our rights as such, tyranny will prevail and it will be OUR fault.

And now, I await my arrest by the U.S. [insert 3 letter organization here].

Re:Encroachment upon rights held at bay (5, Insightful)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | about 6 years ago | (#25166475)

What you fail to realize is that you will not lose your rights due to complacency, but rather you will forfeit them enthusiastically to protect yourself and your loved ones.

Re:Encroachment upon rights held at bay (1)

2names (531755) | about 6 years ago | (#25166627)

No, I won't. What YOU fail to realize is that not everyone in the U.S. has succumbed to the "bread and circuses" mentality.

Re:Encroachment upon rights held at bay (4, Insightful)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | about 6 years ago | (#25166689)

What YOU fail to realize is that not everyone in the U.S. has succumbed to the "bread and circuses" mentality

In a democracy, it doesn't take everyone to vote yea. It only takes enough.

Re:Encroachment upon rights held at bay (2, Insightful)

2names (531755) | about 6 years ago | (#25166815)

While your point is valid, I will ask that you also consider that one voice of dissent is often louder than the entire flock "baaa-ing" in agreement.

Re:Encroachment upon rights held at bay (4, Insightful)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | about 6 years ago | (#25166861)

Please let the U.S. government in on your theory, because for the past 6 years the silent majority has been riding roughshod over the vocal minority.

Re:Encroachment upon rights held at bay (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25169127)

Oh, they're already in on it. Protesters are beat, sent to jail, have their homes raided, are spied on/tracked, etc. Police attempt to disrupt any gatherings by the same tactics you see used by Scientology members in anti-Scientology videos(shoving elbows, stomping on feet, forcing you to drop your sign/camera by grabbing at your hands and kicking them away, following and harassing you, etc.) until they start lobbing tear gas. All the while they have other police officers with cameras taping the more prominent members. There are even specially designated "protest-free" areas.

And don't get me started on the "protesters" whose sole purpose is to cause a disruption, like with COINTELPRO [wikipedia.org] .

Dissent is suppressed by any means. Fox and CNN news make a game out of it.

Re:Encroachment upon rights held at bay (2, Insightful)

ijakings (982830) | about 6 years ago | (#25167785)

History has proven time and time again that with freedom as a goal amazing achievements have been accomplished. Unfortunately it often takes the removal of those freedoms for the majority of sheeple to take note of whats actually going on.

Re:Encroachment upon rights held at bay (1)

mpe (36238) | about 6 years ago | (#25168695)

While your point is valid, I will ask that you also consider that one voice of dissent is often louder than the entire flock "baaa-ing" in agreement.

Another part of the same effect is that someone with a complaint or advocating a change can be "louder" than a majority who either disagree with the complaint or advocate the status quo. With the latter only making their point after they have heard about the former. An obvious example is that lobbiests can effectivly write a bill, even going through several drafts. When the first members of the public can even know about it is when the process of making it into a law has started.

Re:Encroachment upon rights held at bay (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25182591)

Except when the one voice of dissent is saying anything critical of the War on [ SELECT_MORAL_PANIC_TOPIC_HERE: Terror/Drugs/Child Abuse ] Then they usually get shut up by huge flocks of sheep carrying All-in-One tools: "The teeth of the All-in-One tool are used to grab the testicles after cutting off the bottom one third of the scrotum with the scissors portion of the tool." http://www.sheep101.info/201/dockcastrate.html [sheep101.info]

Re:Encroachment upon rights held at bay (1)

mpe (36238) | about 6 years ago | (#25168597)

What you fail to realize is that you will not lose your rights due to complacency, but rather you will forfeit them enthusiastically to protect yourself and your loved ones.

Were that the case it would be better than the current situation. The problem is too often most peoples rights are forfeit, regardless of their opinion. What would be far better is something a long the lines of "If you think that forfeiting your rights is a good thing. You and only you, plus anyone who agrees with you, lose those rights." (Possibly with politicans being assumed to always want to forfeit their own rights...)

Re:Encroachment upon rights held at bay (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25172233)

When confronted with issues like these, I like to look back on what the founding fathers said on these issues:

"Any society that would give up a little essential liberty to gain a little temporary security will deserve neither and lose both."
    -- Benjamin Franklin

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    -- Thomas Jefferson

Re:Encroachment upon rights held at bay (1)

TooMuchToDo (882796) | about 6 years ago | (#25168135)

I've got a rock I'll sell you that keeps black helicopters away.

Re:Encroachment upon rights held at bay (1)

Faylone (880739) | about 6 years ago | (#25172517)

Yes, the rock is very effective. The only trouble is finding a slingshot big enough.

Re:Encroachment upon rights held at bay (1)

TooMuchToDo (882796) | about 6 years ago | (#25172603)

Was more of a play off of the Simpsons:

Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.
Lisa: That's spacious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thank you, dear.
Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Oh, how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn't work.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It's just a stupid rock.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you? Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.

Re:Encroachment upon rights held at bay (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25173339)

You will only say this if you feel your government is not a reflection of your society.

I think some governments in Europe actually do what most of it's populace think is right.

The US is free in what essentially means every woman for herself and do what you can to prosper; it's not immoral if you can get away with it.
I'm sorry, I'm not really responding to your post anymore, I'm just fed up with American thinking right now.

Being a Legal Nazi, but... (4, Insightful)

gravesb (967413) | about 6 years ago | (#25166215)

Generally when you talk about positive rights, it means the government must provide something. Negative rights prevent the government from doing something. The US Bill of Rights is generally considered to be all negative rights. So, it is clearer to refrain from using those adjectives when talking about rights unless you are describing how they affect the government, as opposed to whether they are good or bad.

Re:Being a Legal Nazi, but... (3, Informative)

Timothy Brownawell (627747) | about 6 years ago | (#25166489)

It's not news about positive rights, it's positive news about rights.

Re:Being a Legal Nazi, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25168359)

Clearly. But, presumably like the OP, it took me a second to realize that. I agree that it would have been clearer to avoid using the term "positive" when talking about rights, unless of course you really do mean positive rights. The fact that something can be puzzled out doesn't mean that it was necessarily presented in the best possible way.

Re:Being a Legal Nazi, but... (1)

praxis (19962) | about 6 years ago | (#25169287)

Or it could be written positive rights-news to differentiate it from positive-rights news. As it reads it can be interpreted either way.

Re:Being a Legal Nazi, but... (1)

smoker2 (750216) | about 6 years ago | (#25172367)

Just the fact you had to say that is indicative of the situation.

Re:Being a Legal Nazi, but... (1)

nomadic (141991) | about 6 years ago | (#25166557)

Agreed, that's how I read the headline at first; I thought it was strange they thought it was good news, I know the rabid slashdot libertarian contingent hate positive rights.

Re:Being a Legal Nazi, but... (1)

poetmatt (793785) | about 6 years ago | (#25166625)

Uh?

When are people going to realize that there are shitty politicians on all sides of the spectrum, not just left or right leaning? Only moderates tend to be the non-shitty folks.

Re:Being a Legal Nazi, but... (1)

Kjella (173770) | about 6 years ago | (#25166881)

Uh? When are people going to realize that there are shitty politicians on all sides of the spectrum, not just left or right leaning?

There are, but in this case it was on the mark. Positive rights means the government must provide which means it must get funding which imply taxes in essence required by law. It goes against the liberitarian ideals that only the barest minimum should be provided by the state.

Re:Being a Legal Nazi, but... (1)

poetmatt (793785) | about 6 years ago | (#25167143)

I get what you're saying, but we have seen democrats do things that go against democratic ideals/equates to hypocrisy, likewise with (insert any group or individual of any part of the political spectrum). Thus why say that it even matters if it's a group's ideal, I guess is what I question?

Re:Being a Legal Nazi, but... (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | about 6 years ago | (#25168411)

Only moderates tend to be the non-shitty folks.

Moderates are definitionally people who have no principles. I think you're confusing folks who aren't on one end of the artificial and absurd left-right scale with people who are always equivocating on policy.

Re:Being a Legal Nazi, but... (1)

ppanon (16583) | about 6 years ago | (#25170363)

Moderates are definitionally people who have no principles.

What a load of crap. definition of moderate [answers.com] or another [merriam-webster.com] Moderates are "definitionally" people whose views and principles aren't extreme. That doesn't necessarily mean they have no principles. Now, some "moderate" politicians may fit your definition because they're trying to make the most people happy to get elected, but it's not at all impossible to be moderate and principled. Your argument is one promoted by the extremists who want to make themselves appear palatable when their positions aren't.

I think you're confusing folks who aren't on one end of the artificial and absurd left-right scale with people who are always equivocating on policy.

No, you are. And being one of the former, I take offense at being lumped in with the latter.

Re:Being a Legal Nazi, but... (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | about 6 years ago | (#25170581)

That doesn't necessarily mean they have no principles.

OK, what principles do moderates hold?

Re:Being a Legal Nazi, but... (1)

ppanon (16583) | about 6 years ago | (#25175823)

The principle of pragmatism. Do what gets results. If it happens to be a relatively right wing notion involving setting up a market for competition, fine. If regulation of that market is necessary to prevent abuse, fine as well.

If a market isn't appropriate because there is no financial incentive for something to occur and yet that action brings benefits to society substantially in excess of the required investment, then do it through a government funded program.

Moderates choose to balance individual rights with societal benefits rather than completely stressing one over the other, and various preferences for finding a balance exist.

Moderates accept that not only do the ends not justify the means, but that ideologically-justified "means" are useless or counter-productive if they can never achieve the desired ends.

For an example of ideologically-justified means, see Prohibition [wikipedia.org] and its current equivalent [wikipedia.org] .

For a left wing example, the communist manifesto of one party and "to each according to his needs and from each according to their ability to provide" completely ignores fundamental facets of human nature that make such an organization at best an easily perturbed metastable state.

Re:Being a Legal Nazi, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25166599)

My Gramma Rian, a grammarian, points out that in the phrase "Positive Rights News",
the word "Rights" is used as an adjective. Your analysis would apply only if "Rights"
were being used as a noun.

Re:Being a Legal Nazi, but... (1)

2names (531755) | about 6 years ago | (#25167001)

Your Gramma might be a grammarian, but the phrase "Positive Rights News" is ambiguous at best. Depending upon how one pauses or stresses during the pronuciation of the phrase, "Rights" can be either an adjective or a noun.

For example:

"Positive Rights *pause* News" is interpreted as "News about Positive Rights."

"Positive *pause* Rights News" is interpreted as "Positive News about Rights."

Anyone else want to chime in here? Am I completely off-base?

Grammar: 1, Semantics: 0 (1)

KudyardRipling (1063612) | about 6 years ago | (#25169051)

It is this sort of semantic ambiguity that that powers much humor. On the flip side, there is a radio advert I frequently hear about a cancer treatment center. Within the monologue, the protagonist says:

"I'll have an oncologist for the rest of my life at Saint Vincent's..."

One could perceive a macabre irony when one realizes the survival rates of various neoplastic disorders coloring the phrase rest of my life.

Re:Being a Legal Nazi, but... (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | about 6 years ago | (#25169095)

Anyone else want to chime in here? Am I completely off-base?

of course not. The point is that when your article title may be ambiguous without the benefit of verbal stresses, then it's a bad article title.

Re:Being a Legal Nazi, but... (1)

praxis (19962) | about 6 years ago | (#25169367)

No, you are correct "Positive Rights News" *is* ambiguous. To determine whether Rights is being used as an adjective or a noun one would use hyphenation.

Positive Rights-News = positive news about rights
Positive-Rights News = news about positive rights

Re:Being a Legal Nazi, but... (1)

2names (531755) | about 6 years ago | (#25172175)

Thank you for the information. I will use the hyphen in the future.

Give it some time... (1)

prjt (1369213) | about 6 years ago | (#25166237)

Give it some time and then they will try and take away our privacy again. The only good thing with politics are the younger ones who look back in time on the greatest and do not fall into the lobbyist pit. I dont mind politicans taking money from lobbyists or anyone, as long as they do whats right for the nation and its people, rather than for some shitty corporation.

Europe is not one country (5, Insightful)

houghi (78078) | about 6 years ago | (#25166243)

Although it is nice to see positive news, you must remember that Europe is not one country. It is many countries and what is legal in one can be very illegal in another.

As if you start comparing laws in Israel, China and Japan, just because it is all Asia.

Just so you are aware of it.

Europe is now a confederacy (5, Insightful)

burnitdown (1076427) | about 6 years ago | (#25166351)

Thanks to the EU, it's now an alliance with internal tradiing advantages and collective leadership. In English, we call this a confederacy (no necessary relation to the Confederate States of America).

If Israel, Iran and Iraq started their own trade agreement, we might refer to the mid-East in the same way.

Re:Europe is now a confederacy (1)

Timothy Brownawell (627747) | about 6 years ago | (#25166539)

Thanks to the EU, it's now an alliance with internal tradiing advantages and collective leadership. In English, we call this a confederacy (no necessary relation to the Confederate States of America).

More like the Articles of Confederation [wikipedia.org] , yes? I wonder how long it'll take them to end up like us...

Re:Europe is now a confederacy (1)

meringuoid (568297) | about 6 years ago | (#25166975)

More like the Articles of Confederation, yes? I wonder how long it'll take them to end up like us...

We're ahead of schedule in quite a few ways. World domination? Been there, done that, got the museum full of loot. Horrifically bloody civil war? Depending on how you count it, on and off from 1914 to 1990. And you should see how fast the frontier on the Wild East is being pushed back.

Re:Europe is now a confederacy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25168239)

I'd say 1914 is optimistically late. ;)

Re:Europe is now a confederacy (1)

tpwch (748980) | about 6 years ago | (#25167289)

That is true, but there are still many countries in Europe that are not part of the EU. So please say EU and not Europe when you mean EU.

The U.S. could be argued to be a confederacy of many states. Do you think the Canadians and the Mexicans like it when the U.S. Goverment is called the American goverment? Probably not, and this is the same thing. Europe is a geographical name, not a political one.

Re:Europe is now a confederacy (2, Insightful)

Iloinen Lohikrme (880747) | about 6 years ago | (#25167863)

Well, Europe essentially is the trademark of European Union. Countries belonging to the European Union form the core of Europe culturally, socially, politically and economically. Countries that aren't members of EU are usually trying to become more European so that they can join the European Union. In this sense to me it makes sense use Europe and European Union as synonyms as after all eventually all countries in Europe that are not part of EU will become part of it.

Re:Europe is now a confederacy (2, Informative)

mpe (36238) | about 6 years ago | (#25168511)

Countries that aren't members of EU are usually trying to become more European so that they can join the European Union. In this sense to me it makes sense use Europe and European Union as synonyms as after all eventually all countries in Europe that are not part of EU will become part of it.

Switzerland is quite central within Europe, but dosn't show much interest in becoming part of the EU. Nor does the largest European country, Russia...

Re:Europe is now a confederacy (1)

Iloinen Lohikrme (880747) | about 6 years ago | (#25169559)

Switzerland is not embracing European values and European integration at its fullest, thought they have integrated their economy with EU via bilateral treaties. However as they don't embrace Europe and its values and thus they have distanced from the Europe and thus are not as European as countries in EU. Remember Europe is about culture, values and shared destiny.

Russia is an Euroasian country, it hasn't been European country for a while. After communist took power and moved the capital to Moscow Russia as whole as has step by step become more distant to European values and European ways of doing things. Russia will join Europe once again when it will once again have a true reformer and modernizer on board that will elects to abandon current way of doing things and embrace Europe and European values. Of course it may take hundred years or come sooner, but sooner or later Russia will become a part of Europe, at least when EU has re-constructed whole eastern Europe and Ukraine to western standards, Russia will have to start changing its direction.

Re:Europe is now a confederacy (1)

Sique (173459) | about 6 years ago | (#25171077)

Moscow was the russian capital during most of its history. It was just the spleen of the csars after Peter I not to reside there but have their own town somewhere away, preferredly at a harbour (where the court talked french and most of the executives talked german). But even through the 200 years of St.Peterburg as residence, Moscow was still the town where the administration was.

Re:Europe is now a confederacy (1)

Cyberax (705495) | about 6 years ago | (#25171679)

If you compare the size of Russia and Europe, it'll be more likely that Europe will join Russia :)

Re:Europe is now a confederacy (4, Informative)

oyningen (1189553) | about 6 years ago | (#25168851)

Uhm, no. Norway, Iceland, Switzerland, all countries that have elected to not be part of EU, but are still very much European countries, unless there was recent tectonic activity I was unaware of. If Europe is the trademark of the EU, nobody send that memo around Europe, that's for sure.

Re:Europe is now a confederacy (0)

Iloinen Lohikrme (880747) | about 6 years ago | (#25169737)

Geography dictates what are the far reaching borders of Europe, but culture and values dictate who is an European and who is not. The countries that you mentioned have chosen not to participate at the fullest speed to the building of common Europe and thus they have distanced themselves from the heart of the Europe. If we look at the countries you mentioned, by looking at them you can see that they are still behind and can't let go even partly from their stringent nationalism, thus they have left out themselves from ever evolving Europe. Europe is the de-facto trademark of the EU. When ever there is talk about EU its a talk about Europe as the EU dictates where the whole area is going, countries that are not part of the EU follow the decisions that the EU does: when 500 million people jump in to the air, it affects the rest.

Re:Europe is now a confederacy (1)

johannesg (664142) | about 6 years ago | (#25170691)

Good try, but I doubt you will be able to convince the americans.

Re:Europe is now a confederacy (1)

Iloinen Lohikrme (880747) | about 6 years ago | (#25171003)

Touché

Re:Europe is not one country (4, Insightful)

meringuoid (568297) | about 6 years ago | (#25166417)

Although it is nice to see positive news, you must remember that Europe is not one country. It is many countries and what is legal in one can be very illegal in another. As if you start comparing laws in Israel, China and Japan, just because it is all Asia.

Not quite the same thing. Israel, China and Japan are not joint members of any supranational confederation. The European Union now includes 27 states, and more and more matters are dealt with cooperatively. Since network rights are inherently international, they're exactly the sort of thing that ends up coming to the attention of Brussels - and the decision they reach will be shaped by the consensus among the various states. Precedents established in a single country today may well affect the whole Union tomorrow.

Re:Europe is not one country (1)

smoker2 (750216) | about 6 years ago | (#25172461)

Very nice but irrelevant. the headline is "Positive Rights news from Europe". If any of the countries mentioned in this article are in Europe, the headline is accurate. Europe is a (sub)continent. The European Union is an affiliation of states within Europe. The USA is a affiliation of states within North America. If I saw a headline describing something in North America, I wouldn't immediately think of only the USA, but it may be included. There is a way to define which country you're talking about - use its name !
Why does every thing turn into an intellectual dick waving contest ? Arguing about the fecking title of a story !

Re:Europe is not one country (1)

Phreakiture (547094) | about 6 years ago | (#25166641)

Israel, China and Japan have not chosen to ally their governments into an overarching (although advisory) Asian Union in the manner that many European nations have chosen to do in the form of the European Union.

The European Union is in Europe (3, Funny)

Nicolas MONNET (4727) | about 6 years ago | (#25166685)

And members are bound by treaty to abide by its rules.

Also, water wet. Fire hot. Pain hurts.

Re:The European Union is in Europe (2, Interesting)

fritsd (924429) | about 6 years ago | (#25168129)

(a bit personal but hey this is Slashdot)
Are you family of the (should have been slightly more legendary) Jean Monnet?

I always thought the "secret plan" behind the EU was the following priority list:
1. No more war
2. No more famine
3. there is no point 3, we'll all have to make it up as we go along

but then, i'm an idealist.

Re:The European Union is in Europe (1)

Nicolas MONNET (4727) | about 6 years ago | (#25174229)

Very distantly related AFAIK.
And it's not secret.

Just from the headline (1)

jitterman (987991) | about 6 years ago | (#25166277)

without having RTFA, I thought either a) it was April 1 and no one told me, or b) I need to up my anti-seizure meds.

Misleading headline (1)

srussia (884021) | about 6 years ago | (#25166307)

Being considered innocent until proven guilty is not a positive right it is a negative right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_rights

Re:Misleading headline (1)

Timothy Brownawell (627747) | about 6 years ago | (#25166615)

Being considered innocent until proven guilty is not a positive right it is a negative right.

But it is positive (good) news, right?

Lex Orwell not defeated yet (3, Informative)

mikael_j (106439) | about 6 years ago | (#25166693)

The "critics" who are now stating that the law is now acceptable to all critics are mainly members and supporters of the current government who in many cases voted for the original law because they didn't want to go against the party line (of their party Folkpartiet).

Now they feel that they can "compromise" and seem like they're against the original law while still not going against the party. If you check the websites of Piratpartiet (The pirate party) and StoppaFRAlagen.nu then you'll see that they, the chief critics of the law, are still against the revised law.

/Mikael

Re:Lex Orwell not defeated yet (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25167263)

Put simply they have a socialist agenda, nothing wrong with that.

But from an American viewpoint would you guys quit sucking on the tit of American Hollywood productions and start turning out good movies/bands/games/software/T.V. shows/etc. Sorry but the music/T.V./movies from Europe are lackluster and the only blockbusters over there are American movies, although with Germans going crazy over David Hasslehoff than it is a little hard to take seriously.

The creative minds seem to be lacking over there for some reason, they are so concentrated on copyright laws and defend the piratebay that they have forgotten how to make good movies/music. Start at home with your own artist and than have them expand the free market for you, other than that the artist have spoken what they want to do with their music.

Socialism sucking on the tit of Capitalist creativity? The Warez scene is interesting to see how it has warped into this following of free loaders and socialist.

Re:Lex Orwell not defeated yet (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25168407)

You mean apart from the huge european music scene? There's not much of the music I hear through the day that's made in the US, and it wouldn't be hard to replace entirely if I should desire to.

As for TV, the brits are at times great at it. They also make some good movies now and then, though the output is very low compared to the US.
On the flipside, the quality seems to be better on average.

Re:Lex Orwell not defeated yet (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25170707)

You are funny. But not in the way you think.

Re:Lex Orwell not defeated yet (1)

mikael_j (106439) | about 6 years ago | (#25175925)

Put simply they have a socialist agenda, nothing wrong with that.

I probably shouldn't reply to trolls but it might be useful for someone reading this to know that Folkpartiet (abbreviated Fp) is a right-wing party and in many issues is further to the right than the "classic" swedish right-wing party, the moderate party (which isn't really such a moderate party but the name is catchy, isn't it?).

/Mikael

Sting may be gone, but it still tingles a bit (1)

I.M.O.G. (811163) | about 6 years ago | (#25166737)

Supposedly, the sting has been taken out of the law: only the department of defense and the cabinet may request data, and they'll have to get court approval for it.

I'm not so sure I agree thats taking the sting out of it - I mean, isn't the expectation of due process before having your rights infringed a given?

Its great that they are requiring due process, but I'd still prefer my own government didn't have the ability to make these requests at will. Court approval is likely to be a rubber stamp sort of step, with all requests getting approved. And in light of that, I could see requests for data being abused to fuel political motivations when convenient.

Frist st0P (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25166793)

Relieved -- for now (1)

Duncan Blackthorne (1095849) | about 6 years ago | (#25166901)

I'm glad to hear that, for a while longer at least, some people aren't going to be allowed to turn this entire planet into one big prison for it's citizens.

Enough with the "common sense" tags already! (0, Troll)

BaronHethorSamedi (970820) | about 6 years ago | (#25167167)

Whatever else you may think of intellectual property legislation, it has little if anything to do with common sense. They are highly technical and hotly-contested areas of law. You may not like it, but people on all sides of each of these issues have valid and reasoned points of view.

I don't know much about Danish copyright law, but whining "innocent until proven guilty" is sort of incongruous in a forum whose mantra is often "copyright infringement isn't criminal!" If it isn't criminal (and it isn't), why apply criminal standards of proof? In U.S. tort law, if a claimant can demonstrate that a wrong has been inflicted on him, and there are several possible defendants, the burden of proof shifts to each defendant to prove that he wasn't the one that committed the wrong. Danish courts have apparently determined this isn't the standard to be applied in terms of copyright violations. This isn't common sense--I suspect it's actually a very complex legal question.

Ditto on the three strikes law. Cutting off copyright violators at the source may seem draconian, but it's not as if the lights would go out the first time you download a song. The article is a little spare, but I suspect the volume of infringing content would have to be pretty significant to warrant an investigation leading to a warning, followed by a temporary supension, with complete access being cut off if after these first two measures you elect to continue infringing on someone else's right. Yes, you have a property and contractual right to your internet service. How far does the law need to go in allowing you to use that right to abuse someone else's?

Honestly, "suddenoutbreakofcommonsense" seems to be /. code for "finally, someone in power has adopted my point of view."

Oh boye !!! (1)

unity100 (970058) | about 6 years ago | (#25167349)

i may wet myself. all these positive news of late - first, bush adm. threatening veto for copyright cops bill, doj blasting it, then thompson getting screwed, then this. oh boy - whats going on.

Re:Oh boye !!! (1)

kalirion (728907) | about 6 years ago | (#25168119)

Do not attempt to adjust the picture.

goverments (1)

An anonymous Frank (559486) | about 6 years ago | (#25167547)

"an agreement reached between the Swedish parliament and the sitting government"

What, no standing ovation?

No more Pirate Bay DNS ban in Italy (1)

eaman (710548) | about 6 years ago | (#25167783)

BTW: you can add the victory in an italian court that has removed the DNS ban of the Pirate Bay, placing a prevedent on the matter.
More details on: http://punto-informatico.it/2417079/PI/Brevi/italia-sblocca-accesso-the-pirate-bay.aspx [punto-informatico.it]
if you are confident with italian language.

Still a sting in FRA (3, Informative)

elgaard (81259) | about 6 years ago | (#25170333)

When the referenced site says that even the staunchest critics are now happy with the law, it is just not true.

The problem is still that the Swedish authorities will not just get the permission from this new special court to investigate "issues".

The Swedish government require that all ISP's provide the Swedish state with a copy of every single packet that crosses the Swedish border. They will not need permission from the special court to collect our traffic.

Remember (1)

Sobieski (1032500) | about 6 years ago | (#25175855)

The Swedish surveillance law has been reduced to nothing, according to public statements by the government.

This means that the opposition might get weaker, allowing the law to be passed. When that has happened, it will only be a matter of time before the government tries to strengthen the law again.

They don't want to spend money on an ineffective system.

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