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"Iron Man" Release Brings Down Paramount's Servers

kdawson posted about 6 years ago | from the super-hero-effect dept.

Media 283

secmartin writes "Shortly after the release of Iron Man on Blu-ray on October 1, people started complaining of defective discs; the problem turned out to be that all the Blu-ray players downloading additional content brought down Paramount's BD-Live servers, causing delays while loading the disc. Which really makes you wonder what will happen when they decide to shut down this service in a couple of years."

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First Post. (1, Insightful)

Vectronic (1221470) | about 6 years ago | (#25261101)

"Which really makes you wonder what will happen..."

Infinite delay... or cracks.

firsty firsty (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261103)

Yes indeed first post!

Re:firsty firsty (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261111)

No, just another slow lamer.

Re:firsty firsty (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261775)

Mac users are homosexual fart-leakers.

You know you're in a car with one when you see the window roll up 150 milliseconds before the leaky stinky hits your nose. Experienced fags know when they leak and time the window-rise accordingly.

They also smoke menthols. True story.

PS3 (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261105)

The PS3 has an option to allow/disallow Blu-Ray discs to connect to the Internet. It might be for just this sort of thing?

Re:PS3 (1)

AmigaMMC (1103025) | about 6 years ago | (#25261203)

Then I'll pick a PS3 as BD player when the time comes for me to get one.

'B' Arc For Amiga,XBox,Dreamcast,HD-DVD Fanboys (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261207)

This is just the weekly Slashdot outburst by bitter HD-DVD fans.

The Net is getting more and more clogged up with these fanboys of dead platforms and formats. Something like a 'B' Arc ala Douglas Adams is really needed for these sad and pathetic HD-DVD, Xbox, Dreamcast, and Amiga fanboys:

The 'B' Ark:
http://www.geoffwilkins.net/fragments/Adams.htm [geoffwilkins.net]

Emo iPhone Losers Too Please! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261225)

Sung to the tune Imagine:

Imagine if there were no iPhones. It's easy if you try...

Re:PS3 (5, Insightful)

lysergic.acid (845423) | about 6 years ago | (#25261269)

how much live content is there usually? with the huge capacity of dual-layer BDs wouldn't it be more efficient to just put the live content on the disc itself in the first place?

i mean, unless they're having users download more than 4~5 GB of data, it should be possible to squeeze the live content onto the BD by compressing the movie by 1% or stripping out previews. and if they are having users download more than 5 GB of data then that seems really impractical anyway.

the only thing i see live content being good for is perhaps for downloading extra subtitle languages so studios don't have to print localized discs for smaller markets, or perhaps you're a Czech living in the U.S. and want to buy a BD at the local Best Buy but still want Czech subs, etc. and depending on how compressed the audio streams are, they could also do this with alternate language streams.

Re:PS3 (5, Insightful)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | about 6 years ago | (#25261291)

how much live content is there usually? with the huge capacity of dual-layer BDs wouldn't it be more efficient to just put the live content on the disc itself in the first place?

Without time travel ability, no. "Live content" means "That movie you bought 5 years ago is showing trailers for next summer's movie lineup."

Re:PS3 (4, Informative)

lysergic.acid (845423) | about 6 years ago | (#25261397)

i thought the BD live content was extra content only downloaded once when you first play the disc--things like bonus scenes, soundtracks, ringtones, and other promo material--rather than just video streamed live each time you play it. i mean, that's the impression this kotaku article [kotaku.com] gives.

so all this is just so that the BD you bought will show you the latest movie advertisements each time it's played? that hardly seems worthwhile. preview trailers are something you skip over, not something you waste bandwidth on.

i wouldn't have thought that Sony or the movie studios would waste money and resources to provide each BD release with an ever-changing online video stream. just keeping the servers up would be expensive enough, but they'd also have to pay people to constantly update the live content for each disc they put out. and for 5 years? how much would it cost to produce or license 5 years worth of live content? that's like running a really unprofitable TV station that people only watch for 15-20 minutes once every few months.

Re:PS3 (4, Interesting)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 6 years ago | (#25261497)

preview trailers are something you skip over, not something you waste bandwidth on.

Not if the studios have anything to say about it. Remember good old user operation prohibition [wikipedia.org] ? And remember how it was only ever used, pinkie swear, for those FBI warnings in the beginning, never for commercials?

I don't know whether they have done so yet; but the studios would love nothing more than to cram a new set of ads into your eyeballs before every showing.

Re:PS3 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261499)

i wouldn't have thought that Sony or the movie studios would waste money and resources to provide each BD release with an ever-changing online video stream.

Oh hi! You must be new here.

Re:PS3 (5, Interesting)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | about 6 years ago | (#25261783)

i thought the BD live content was extra content only downloaded once when you first play the disc--things like bonus scenes, soundtracks, ringtones, and other promo material--rather than just video streamed live each time you play it.

Neither, actually, unless they're being particularly stupid. More likely, downloaded once, whenever either you choose to download them, or the disc does -- and then saved, so you can watch them again. Live streaming would be reserved for places where it actually matters -- as in, content which is also being generated live.

preview trailers are something you skip over, not something you waste bandwidth on.

Preview trailers are also the most trivial, and the most useless, of the things that are possible with this.

I worked on some client-side programming for HD-DVD, before it died. Basically, you've got a little bit of local storage, an Internet connection, and a script engine. You can download small videos and play them, or you can run a program overlaid on top of the movie -- this is how menus were done, but we were doing a lot more than just menus.

Now, from what I remember of Paramount's discs, they pretty much re-downloaded several megs (at least) worth of data on boot -- including every single file needed for said scripts. The only exception was actual media, as in audio and video.

So, they're basically replacing a bunch of data that was already there on the disc. Unlike some other discs, you have no choice -- you will update, before you watch the movie.

That's not really "defectivebydesign", as it's got nothing to do with DRM. It is, however, a defective design. Subtle but very important difference.

It's possible none of this applies to the Blu-Ray, but I suspect it's very similar, and I very much doubt that any of it involves re-downloading the same trailer over and over.

Re:PS3 (5, Insightful)

maugle (1369813) | about 6 years ago | (#25261655)

With "Live content", that movie you bought 5 years ago is showing trailers for upcoming movies. Long, unskippable trailers. For movies you're not interested in. That use up your bandwidth and make you go over your bandwidth cap.

Re:PS3 (5, Insightful)

Fractal Dice (696349) | about 6 years ago | (#25261773)

Without time travel ability, no. "Live content" means "That movie you bought 5 years ago is showing trailers for next summer's movie lineup."

What about putting live ads on the background billboards or changing the brand of burger the hero eats? I would expect updated product placements will be the next wave of live content.

It's not about live content (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261449)

It's about tracking the consumer. Even if the "live content" was all of one kilobyte Paramount would host it on their own server. Having each disk "dial home" is in valuable for marketing and racketeering^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hcopyright enforcement.

Re:It's not about live content (2, Insightful)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | about 6 years ago | (#25261511)

It's about tracking the consumer. Even if the "live content" was all of one kilobyte Paramount would host it on their own server. Having each disk "dial home" is in valuable for marketing and racketeering^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hcopyright enforcement.

Does Blu-Ray have a remote kill-switch?

I just ask because some of the paranoid theories I hear on Slashdot are funny. I personally liked the +5 one where RFID in kid's clothing was going to lead to predators watching childrens' movements from his computer in his basement.

Re:It's not about live content (1, Informative)

Truekaiser (724672) | about 6 years ago | (#25261567)

both blue-ray and hd-dvd have the remote kill switch option of the drm standard. why do you think it requires a net connection?

Re:It's not about live content (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | about 6 years ago | (#25261643)

why do you think it requires a net connection?

To be honest, and no offense taken if you call me naieve or even ignorant here, but this is the first time I've heard of either standard requiring a net connection. What I have heard about is 'live content' and firmware updates. With all the ruckus kicked up about either of these formats, complaints that a player or disc could be remotely killed never crossed my path.

I just want to know if it actually exists or if it's something that sounds really really plausible because the players have upgradable firmware and possibly a net connection.

Re:It's not about live content (4, Informative)

jandrese (485) | about 6 years ago | (#25261571)

Actually, yes. If a player is discovered to be compromised, it can be added to a "bad guys" list and locked out. The list can be updated remotely or by trying to play a newer disc.

Re:PS3 (5, Informative)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | about 6 years ago | (#25261353)

I don't remember that, but you might very well be right. I don't go into those menus very often. What I do know is that the Iron Man disc itself asks if you want to download whatever extra content there might be. Just pick "no" and the menu loads and the movie plays perfectly, at least it did for me.

Great Idea! (5, Funny)

Gazzonyx (982402) | about 6 years ago | (#25261123)

Now that they've got their servers back up and running, let's slashdot 'em!
Now I remember why I decided to go with software development over network administration!

Re:Great Idea! (5, Funny)

Joe U (443617) | about 6 years ago | (#25261141)

Now I remember why I decided to go with software development over network administration!

As a network administrator, let me be the first to say, I hate you.

Re:Great Idea! (5, Funny)

Gazzonyx (982402) | about 6 years ago | (#25261173)

The feeling is mutual. But, look on the bright side... at least we're not database administrators :)

Re:Great Idea! (5, Funny)

stoolpigeon (454276) | about 6 years ago | (#25261219)

And you know why we become DBAs - because we don't just hate you -- we hate everybody. Us Oracle DBAs even hate ourselves.

Re:Great Idea! (2, Interesting)

drkich (305460) | about 6 years ago | (#25261373)

And what about those poor AS/400 (iSeries, System I, i5, whatever) DBAs? Whom do they hate?

Re:Great Idea! (5, Funny)

DeionXxX (261398) | about 6 years ago | (#25261535)

You're not dead yet? Damn modern medicine is keeping people alive forever... so much for quality over quantity... too bad euthanasia is not legal ;-)

Re:Great Idea! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261761)

You all better be glad we in Medicine love you all. If we were anything like you guys...

Re:Great Idea! (-1, Offtopic)

mrsteveman1 (1010381) | about 6 years ago | (#25261233)

Yea, screw all of you...

STEP2 REVEALED!!!!!! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261147)

1. Take a distributed distribution system.
2. Centralize it create a single point of failure.
3. PROFIT!

Re:STEP2 REVEALED!!!!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261245)

Yup that pretty much explains economics, monopoly(of point of failure) = profit.

Mere DRM please (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261179)

Layers upon layers of DRM phoning home brought down another plotless, lame FX Hollywood-hyped movie filled with bad acting? Why is DRM getting such an aweful rap?

Easy test and solution... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261185)

Disconnect from network before playing.
God people are stupid.

Sony could have learned from Microsoft (3, Insightful)

dhall (1252) | about 6 years ago | (#25261209)

TFA is a little sparse, and I don't feel like forking out the cash right now to test whether I can work around the call home feature via a simple loopback definition for the BD live servers in my local DNS cache.

At least Xbox Live has the ability to disable logging into Xbox live to play games. It's built on a system that includes maintenence and downtime. An expected consideration for any online service. Any service built to assume to 100% uptime is really bad architecture.

Go Away Idiot (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261241)

Fucking dimwitted Xbot.

Re:Sony could have learned from Microsoft (4, Insightful)

SL Baur (19540) | about 6 years ago | (#25261591)

Any service built to assume to 100% uptime is really bad architecture.

True, but ... WGA, where the "A" stands for "Advantage" assumes 100% server uptime. Are you saying Microsoft should have learned from themselves?

Was not the Blue Ray capacity enough?? (2, Insightful)

kandresen (712861) | about 6 years ago | (#25261211)

I thought the only reason for Blue Ray was the enormous additional storage capacity it had.
If now the movie in fact require downloading content from servers, then I bet they don't really use the capacity the disc really have, and make me believe a lot of people will be dissatisfied with the disk as the server is taken off air sometime realizing that some of the content they accessed no longer is available from what they believed to be a disc...

Re:Was not the Blue Ray capacity enough?? (4, Insightful)

dhall (1252) | about 6 years ago | (#25261231)

I think part of the need for the extra capacity is the volume of the media in the place.

The size difference of the data files from 480p to 720p to 1080p shouldn't be discounted. Having seen the media + added downloadable content as "value add" model on Xbox, it's a good idea in theory, but it appears Sony once again has questionable execution.

That Reminds Me Of A Funny Story (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261461)

Remember when all of you Xbox retards ran out and bought HD-DVD players and that crappy add on for the Dreamcast 360 and hundreds to thousands of dollars in useless HD-DVD discs and sat around in forums like Slashdot posting garbage about Sony like "once again has questionable execution" and a million other bits of crap

and then your shitty format HD-DVD died.

That was fucking hilarious. Do you still cry at night dhall?

Re:Was not the Blue Ray capacity enough?? (2, Insightful)

DigitAl56K (805623) | about 6 years ago | (#25261645)

The size difference of the data files from 480p to 720p to 1080p shouldn't be discounted.

I really doubt the Blu-Ray player is going to be downloading additional high quality 1080p content. For that to work you would need every Blu-Ray owner to have a reliable high speed internet connection or the experience would be ass.

All of the "essential" video content should be on the disc, storage is not really an issue. Blu-Ray titles seem to be encoded at exorbitant data rates, which is great for quality, but there is headroom for plenty of extra features.

Maybe there are protected features on the disc that are unlocked by accessing a DRM key online? I could also see galleries, music, directors commentary, and additional 480 streaming content (e.g. trailers) working just fine in most cases.

The details of what's being downloaded must be out there somewhere..

Re:Was not the Blue Ray capacity enough?? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261235)

I thought the only reason for Blue Ray was the enormous additional storage capacity it had.
If now the movie in fact require downloading content from servers, then I bet they don't really use the capacity the disc really have, and make me believe a lot of people will be dissatisfied with the disk as the server is taken off air sometime realizing that some of the content they accessed no longer is available from what they believed to be a disc...

I'm sure the capacity is fine, but the paranoid media companies want to force you to use products that will phone home. "Online Content" sounds a hell of a lot nicer than than "DRM" doesn't it?

WFM. Well, FGFM. (4, Informative)

fo0bar (261207) | about 6 years ago | (#25261227)

Which really makes you wonder what will happen when they decide to shut down this service in a couple of years.

People will get BD players that don't suck?

I bought Iron Man shortly after work on Tuesday, and put it in my media center (currently running a demo of Arcsoft Totalmedia Theater). The branded "loading" screen spun for about 10 seconds, it gave me a warning saying it couldn't connect to the BD-Live server, and threw me to the disc's main menu.

(Of course, there is a secondary WTF for the disc being mastered to try to download from BD-Live in the beginning, instead of when you go to the appropriate menu, but the primary WTF is the other players out there not failing gracefully to the disc.)

Today I put the disc in again, and this time it downloaded the content.

(Granted, there are real concerns about the key servers for authenticating BD/HD-DVD discs, but this discussion is just within the scope of downloading extra content via BD-Live.)

Re:WFM. Well, FGFM. (4, Insightful)

narcberry (1328009) | about 6 years ago | (#25261557)

Sony's Log:
1/1 11:38pm Fo0 watched Bikini Babes 14
...
1/2 08:45pm Fo0 loaded Ironman
1/2 08:45pm Sent ads for Bikini Babes 15 to Fo0
1/2 08:46pm Fo0 watched Ironman
...
6/6 06:66pm All viewing records subpoenaed and enter public record.

Re:WFM. Well, FGFM. (4, Funny)

TheSpoom (715771) | about 6 years ago | (#25261747)

Oh man, do I remember what I was doing at 6:66 PM that day... it was glorious. A beautiful flock of pigs were flying toward the sunset, and the ground beneath me seemed to be a touch colder (I remembered hearing about hell freezing over a couple of minutes beforehand). Meanwhile, someone, somewhere had divided by zero, causing my calendar to indicate that it was the year 1900.

Good times, good times.

firmware update (1)

big whiffer (906132) | about 6 years ago | (#25261239)

actually, its quite simple. with readily available firmware updates, drives would most likely receive an update telling devices to check for content manually instead of at start up. problem solved.

Why is it downloading at all? (4, Interesting)

Loie (603717) | about 6 years ago | (#25261263)

With all the storage capacity available on these blu-ray discs why should there be any downloading of additional content? Does the movie really fill up the whole disc? Forgive my ignorace, I still haven't made the blu-ray jump.

Re:Why is it downloading at all? (-1, Flamebait)

PunkOfLinux (870955) | about 6 years ago | (#25261273)

It's not the lack of knowledge about Blu-Ray that makes you ignorant. It's the fact that you can't spell 'ignorance'.

And I think this was more of a "updataeable content" bit anyway.

Re:Why is it downloading at all? (5, Funny)

theripper (123078) | about 6 years ago | (#25261341)

Here's a hint:

When picking on someone for their spelling, don't misspell words.

Ignorat twit.

Re:Why is it downloading at all? (5, Funny)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | about 6 years ago | (#25261667)

It's not the lack of knowledge about Blu-Ray that makes you ignorant. It's the fact that you can't spell 'ignorance'.

You should look up the definition of ignorance. Then you should look up the definition of typo.

And I think this was more of a " updataeable content" bit anyway.

*sigh* Well maybe by the time you've mastered usage of those words your sphincter muscles will relax enough to pull your head out.

Re:Why is it downloading at all? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261343)

I haven't jumped to blu-ray either, but some content shouldn't be on the disc because it would take way too much space. For example, dubbed audio streams. You could probably download dubbings of 10 or so languages. You could see how that would be a waste of space.

Re:Why is it downloading at all? (2, Insightful)

timeOday (582209) | about 6 years ago | (#25261351)

Probably so they know exactly when and how many times you watch each disc.

Re:Why is it downloading at all? (3, Insightful)

sukotto (122876) | about 6 years ago | (#25261367)

They want to be sure the advertisements and trailers are up to date.

Re:Why is it downloading at all? (1)

ceoyoyo (59147) | about 6 years ago | (#25261525)

Why, so it can hit the server and tell it all about you, of course.

Web isn't Really for National Media (3, Interesting)

hhawk (26580) | about 6 years ago | (#25261265)

On interactive TV forums I've written extensively talking about how web infrastructure isn't really for national TV and large events with not 100 or 1000 but multiple millions of people try to access the same data within a few seconds of each other.

This is on a smaller scale but certainly proves the point; I do feel there are solutions for pre-caching to tiered servers through the network fabric; but some day when SuperBowl XXX runs and 200,000 TV sets try to access the same JavaTV Applets at the same time... that real fun begins.

Re:Web isn't Really for National Media (1)

Zerth (26112) | about 6 years ago | (#25261295)

What, like the yearly Victoria Secret Server Meltdown?

Re:Web isn't Really for National Media (1)

hhawk (26580) | about 6 years ago | (#25261369)

A good example. Is it still melting down? They should of figurd that out, but that is still nothing compared to major network events..

Re:Web isn't Really for National Media (2, Insightful)

im_thatoneguy (819432) | about 6 years ago | (#25261441)

Yeah or someday there'll be something like a world wide event where the entire world comes to compete for two weeks and when people all try to access the videos which would be available on demand the entire internet will melt! Melt I SAY!

They could even model this event after some sort of ancient event... perhaps a Grecian competition.

Yep. I'm sure NBC and Microsoft have no idea how they're going to plan for such an event. And I'm certain it'll be a complete disaster.

Evil or incompetence? (4, Interesting)

MojoRilla (591502) | about 6 years ago | (#25261297)

Here's a better story [yahoo.com] by the way.

So I'm trying to decide if this was evil or just total incompetence.

On the evil side, we have:
  • Release a disk with mandatory downloads. They would have to know this will end up bricking the movie for fans. Perhaps they are thinking they can sell "upgraded" disks to the same fans again years later without the stupid download.
  • Since no one could be so stupid as to not plan for heavy traffic and use a CDN for content (which they now are), perhaps they planned this failure to get some press about the release of their disk.
  • Tell people that it shouldn't happen again, but you have provided a menu to skip the download as if that should make people happy. The fact that they could change the menu means it had to load the menu from their web site. So it still can have timeout issues.

And on the incompetence side.

  • Stupidly release a movie which not only downloads mandatory content, but doesn't time out if the download fails. Internet 101 here. 10 minutes trying to connect to a server. Please.
  • Don't scale your servers to anticipate traffic. Using a CDN to serve this content is absolutely a no brainer.

Hard to tell. Both are unbelieveable, yet this happened. Thankfully, there is a solution. Don't connect your Blue Ray player to the internet. That will work for now, until they start tying DRM into BD-Live. Idiots.

LOL! At The Moron Getting Modded Up! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261361)

What a fucking joke Slashdot has turned into with dumb fucking clowns like MojoRilla.

But it is hilarious to watch dumbfucks like this desperately trying spin a ten second or so delay for a short period of time into a crisis. Oh the Humanity!!!

LOL, what an idiot.

Re:Evil or incompetence? (1)

timeOday (582209) | about 6 years ago | (#25261387)

Windows XP on my work laptop is just like this; booting will stall for several minutes as the anti-virus software tries to phone home if the network interface is enabled but not plugged in. It's horribly annoying.

Though to be fair, my linux computer can't shut down correctly, either, because it gets to "unmounting network filesystems" and just sits there forever.

Re:Evil or incompetence? (3, Informative)

SL Baur (19540) | about 6 years ago | (#25261635)

Though to be fair, my linux computer can't shut down correctly, either, because it gets to "unmounting network filesystems" and just sits there forever.

No, that's not fair. A network mounted disk is very much a horse of another feather, or something like that.

If you have any local state that has not been written back to the disk, it will be lost forever. In that instance you want to do a umount -f and kiss whatever data you most recently dealt with goodbye.

Definitely NOT the same thing.

Re:Evil or incompetence? (4, Insightful)

sukotto (122876) | about 6 years ago | (#25261413)

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
-- Hanlon's razor

I've worked with Marketing people before and can easily believe that they had no clue about the infrastructure requirements and possible fail points. Actually, even if they did, they wouldn't have asked a techie. They would have asked the techie's manager who probably told them "don't worry about it.

Business as usual in a big, dysfunctional, corporate environment.

Re:Evil or incompetence? (1, Troll)

ceoyoyo (59147) | about 6 years ago | (#25261529)

You forgot one on the stupid side:

Release your movie in such a way that people who buy it can't play it. Frustrated customers return disc as broken and download movie from The Pirate Bay.

Re:Evil or incompetence? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261809)

I was under the impression that they already had? Or is it just that if and when you do hook up your player to the net it will download a list of revoked disc/player keys?

Re:Evil or incompetence? (1)

dugn (890551) | about 6 years ago | (#25261817)

+1 more reason to loathe Sony +1 more reason to stick with SD DVDs God I miss HD-DVD

Poor planning... (5, Insightful)

PhasmatisApparatus (1086395) | about 6 years ago | (#25261299)

...from companies who have also bought into DRM. Go figure, right?

That optional, downloadable content would slow down the movie itself is just another extension of the two minutes of FBI warning I am forced to sit through when I play a DVD in a standard player.

How much further will this go before the majority of people begin to care?

Re:Poor planning... (3, Insightful)

ceoyoyo (59147) | about 6 years ago | (#25261549)

Whenever someone mentions ads on a website someone (okay, lots of someones) pipe up and ask "ads? I haven't seen an ad in years!"

Well the ripping and DeCSS software takes care of the FBI warnings, trailers, commercials and mandatory calling home.

The movie studios are faithfully following recent examples and shooting themselves in the feet.

whole story such a load of crap (-1, Flamebait)

timmarhy (659436) | about 6 years ago | (#25261305)

yeah, but all accounts it gave anyone with a 1/2 decent player an extra 10 second delay. cry me a fucking river.

this is totally trumped up.

Okay. (4, Insightful)

E-Sabbath (42104) | about 6 years ago | (#25261315)

Dead serious question here. I don't have a Blu-Ray player yet. Under what circumstances do they need to be hooked to the internet? Do you have to hook them up when you're doing initial setup? Do you have to hook them up when you want to play any DVD? Do you have to hook them up when you want to play a disc with BD-Live content? What would happen if you just didn't have it hooked to the net and tried to play this?

Re:Okay. (4, Informative)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | about 6 years ago | (#25261363)

The answer is there are no circumstances under which a BD player truly needs to be hooked to the internet. In fact many BD players don't even have network connectivity. The only "advantage" to a player that does offer internet connectivity is that it offers a way for the studios to monitor what you are watching, and to deliver extra material to your player, and a way to obtain firmware updates for the player.

Re:Okay. (4, Informative)

Dhalka226 (559740) | about 6 years ago | (#25261447)

My experience is with a PS3 as a Blu-Ray player, but I'll answer the questions as best I can.

Do you have to hook them up when you're doing initial setup?

No.

Do you have to hook them up when you want to play any DVD?

No.

Do you have to hook them up when you want to play a disc with BD-Live content?

Not to view the movie, but the BD-Live content would require you to have an active Internet connection.

What would happen if you just didn't have it hooked to the net and tried to play this?

You would have all of the content of the disc available, but none of the extra features (whatever those may be) that come from the BD-Live segment.

Design Flaw... (2, Insightful)

TavisJohn (961472) | about 6 years ago | (#25261319)

This sounds like a MASSIVE Design Flaw. It is either a flaw with the BluRay standard, or with the way paramount made the BluRay disk. It should ALWAYS default to an error if the online content can't be downloaded...

However DVD's and BluRay do not NEED downloadable content. Just but the G** **MN content on the DISKS!!! Most people keep their DVD's for years! I have a few that are over 10 years old! And NOBODY is going to keep servers up and running forever just because some movies they released have online content.

Re:Design Flaw... (1, Redundant)

tsajeff (925056) | about 6 years ago | (#25261377)

It could be part of their long term business strategy to always keep previews and movie promotions current, as opposed to the way we currently watch a 5 year old movie and see previews for 5 year old movies.

Re:Design Flaw... (1)

TavisJohn (961472) | about 6 years ago | (#25261595)

If that is what the content really is... Than if the content is no longer available, or the internet is out, or if the server is down, the player should display an error message "Content not available". Instead loads of people thought they had bad disks.
And if they want to have current previews... Why make it something you have to have a disk to access? Why not just have the players themselves just connect to the content?

Sometimes it is amusing to see trailers from 5 years ago.

Personally if I want to see "Previews" I go to Apple's trailer site.

Re:Design Flaw... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261421)

Hey faggot, this is Slashdot. You can say "god damn" in addition to cocksucker, motherfucker, twat, whorebag, asslicker and a whole rainbow of colorful adjectives and aphorisms.
Kindly die in a fire.

Re:Design Flaw... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261689)

Seriously -- you need to stop mentioning your mom in every comment you make. You're a big boy now. Talk it over with your therapist this week, mmmkay?

media conglomerates: (5, Insightful)

circletimessquare (444983) | about 6 years ago | (#25261347)

pirated movies

it's not just about avoiding $20

it's about avoiding this kind of bullshit

when you weigh down your product with this kind of bullshit, pirate product is superior product

retards

Re:media conglomerates: (1, Redundant)

Microlith (54737) | about 6 years ago | (#25261427)

pirated movies

it's not just about avoiding $20

I'd imagine that in the majority of cases... it is. Not that this wasn't a raging case of stupidity, but still.

Also: don't try to justify piracy. If you don't like how they do things, DON'T SUPPORT THEIR PRODUCT AT ALL. Anything else just gives them ammunition.

Re:media conglomerates: (2, Insightful)

schon (31600) | about 6 years ago | (#25261665)

DON'T SUPPORT THEIR PRODUCT AT ALL. Anything else just gives them ammunition.

That would be good advice, except not supporting their product at all gives them ammunition too.

If the stuff doesn't sell, they blame it on piracy. Regardless of the reason.

Re:media conglomerates: (3, Insightful)

ceoyoyo (59147) | about 6 years ago | (#25261559)

It's pretty easy to rip a DVD now. I much prefer having them on a hard drive, ready to play, no mandatory previews and FBI warning.

It doesn't take much of a step to realize that it would be a lot easier to just download them already that way rather than buying the DVD and ripping it yourself.

Pure FUD (5, Informative)

FSWKU (551325) | about 6 years ago | (#25261349)

There is no requirement to actually utilize the BD-Live features to watch this title. I picked it up the other day, popped the disc into my PS3 and let it load. You know what happened? A screen came up ASKING wether or not I wanted to download the additional content. I chose not to, and it continued on its merry way to the main menu and I was able to watch the movie without any issues whatsoever.

No BD-Live just means I can't have the option to have random quiz questions pop up on my screen during the film like "What kind of plane is shooting at Iron Man?" (F-22, btw). So no, it won't cause the world to end if they shut down the servers. All you have to do is click "No" and continue on to watch the movie that you actually bought the disc for.

Not FUD, More Like Therapy For Xbox/HD-DVD Fanboys (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261411)

All that rage and bitterness from the Xbox fanboys who spend hundreds to thousands of dollars on worthless HD-DVD products has to go somewhere. These periodic 'OMG!!! BluRay Rapes Kitten" stories on Slashdot are like therapy for Xbox/HD-DVD fanboys.

Re:Not FUD, More Like Therapy For Xbox/HD-DVD Fanb (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261463)

All that rage and bitterness from the Xbox fanboys who spend hundreds to thousands of dollars on worthless HD-DVD products has to go somewhere. These periodic 'OMG!!! BluRay Rapes Kitten" stories on Slashdot are like therapy for Xbox/HD-DVD fanboys.

Meanwhile all you Sony dick sucking faggots get to snuggle up in your warm bed at night and sleep in the wet spot formed when the present the DRM loving bastards left in your ass leaked out.

Re:Not FUD, More Like Therapy For Xbox/HD-DVD Fanb (3, Interesting)

friedmud (512466) | about 6 years ago | (#25261473)

I, for one, am one of the people that invested in HD-DVD and hoped it would win out (I thought it was superior technology).... but the same week that Toshiba gave up the ghost... I went out and bought a PS3 and have never looked back.

People need to get over it. Bluray + PS3 = Really Good Platform. The PS3 just does so much more than just playing movies or games... I don't see how anyone with an HDTV and sound system gets by without one...

Anyway... I agree with the GP. I popped in Iron Man last night (rented) and it asked me if I wanted to download the BD-Live stuff. I didn't care so I just clicked "No" and we were able to watch the movie without issue.

BTW - What is the BFD about this movie? I waited to see it from Netflix like usual... but I was really anticipating a great movie from all the hype it got when it was released. Both my wife and I agreed that it was a mediocre movie at best. It had a lot of ridiculous plot elements and quite a few instances of bad acting. The camera work felt cliche and the dialog was uninspired. I just don't get it. I had a friend of mine say that he liked Iron Man more than the Dark Knight... but I don't think they're even in the same league...

Friedmud

Re:Not FUD, More Like Therapy For Xbox/HD-DVD Fanb (1)

FSWKU (551325) | about 6 years ago | (#25261579)

BTW - What is the BFD about this movie? I waited to see it from Netflix like usual... but I was really anticipating a great movie from all the hype it got when it was released. Both my wife and I agreed that it was a mediocre movie at best. It had a lot of ridiculous plot elements and quite a few instances of bad acting. The camera work felt cliche and the dialog was uninspired. I just don't get it. I had a friend of mine say that he liked Iron Man more than the Dark Knight... but I don't think they're even in the same league...

Not saying it's the greatest movie ever made, but I thought it was pretty damned good. I think part of the hype was how visually impressive it is. The other facet to that is the spot-on casting of Tony Stark. He's an alcoholic, womanizing, arrogant bastard. Robert Downey Jr. is quite similar. Downey even said himself that the HARD part was turning Stark into a likeable hero, not playing the part of the arrogant prick. Jeff Bridges also does an extremely nice job of portraying the backstabbing bastard what deals on the side. Never would have thought that possible from one of the heroes in Tron, but he pulled it off admirably.

Admittedly, some of the dialogue was cheesy, and the acting overdone. But remember that this IS a comic book movie. If you've read some of the earlier issues, you know just how horrifically cheesy the characters can be. My only REAL complaint is that they could have done more with the characters instead of spending literally half the movie setting everything else up. Fortunately, there will almost definitely be a sequel, and this gives a plausible (if highly improbable) backstory to frame the next film with. Overall, it's a solid A-.

Your friend who liked it better than Dark Knight is on some serious drugs, however. Iron Man was great, Dark Knight was epic.

I know, I know, tl;dr. PS3 is about the only non-retarded BR player out right now.

Re:Not FUD, More Like Therapy For Xbox/HD-DVD Fanb (1)

Kopiok (898028) | about 6 years ago | (#25261599)

The PS3 just does so much more than just playing movies or games... I don't see how anyone with an HDTV and sound system gets by without one...

Er, with a DVD player and a Wii?

Re:Not FUD, More Like Therapy For Xbox/HD-DVD Fanb (2, Insightful)

nine-times (778537) | about 6 years ago | (#25261609)

BTW - What is the BFD about this movie?

I suspect that expectations were just really low. For one thing, it's Iron Man. I know Iron Man has some hardcore fans, but he's really not one of the major heroes. (I'm sure some Iron Man fan will flip out at hearing this and tell me all about how he has played a major role in some terribly important events in the Marvel universe.) Also, a big project of that sort, with a relatively unproven director, and I think people imagined all sorts of ways that this thing could turn bad. These sorts of movies generally turn into special effects suck-fests.

But the movie didn't fall down in any of the ways that people were expecting to. That, paired with some decent performances from actors who you would expect to give decent performances, lead to the whole project exceeding expectations. In movies, just as in politics, sometimes exceeding some seriously low expectations ends up getting counted as a major victory.

Still, I'd say it was a pretty solid movie.

Re:Not FUD, More Like Therapy For Xbox/HD-DVD Fanb (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261669)

I watched both movies and I gotta say that I prefer Dark Knight not only by the great story and acting, but by the fun I had seeing lots of people leaving the theater cursing and saying how 'horrible' the movie was.

(IMHO) Most people want movies that they can watch without thinking... Iron Man is one of those super hero movies that are easy to get and is predictable: someone does something bad against the main character and he becomes a hero, which obviously will have a nemesis and a damsel in distress. Dark Knight went beyond the cliches and more into a exploration of the what a hero/villain is and the reasons for each to exist. That requires more thinking to understand fully and that's why lots of people disliked it. They wanted a remake of the Jack Nicholson's Joker, not Joker that was so tormented and insane that one has to question how such person can exist (if only in the big screen, although history is full of examples of unexplainable crimes).

Re:Not FUD, More Like Therapy For Xbox/HD-DVD Fanb (0, Offtopic)

im_thatoneguy (819432) | about 6 years ago | (#25261475)

Oh yeah. I'm feeling the rage boiling up in me right now.

F*** YOU WORLD FOR MAKING ME BUY A $100 PLAYER WHICH PLAYS HD MOVIES FOR $10 EACH! I'M TOO ANGRY FOR WORDS THAT I'M GOING TO HAVE TO GO TO FRYS AND BUY ANOTHER 10 HD-DVDs for $10 OR LESS EACH!

Yep. Buying an uprezzing DVD player for $100 which also plays $10 HD movies has been the worst decision I've ever made. I wake up every day and after watching another cheap HD movie cruse the day I ever got duped into such a bargain.

Re:Pure FUD (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261737)

"All you have to do is click "No" and continue on to watch the movie that you actually bought the disc for."

Why should I even have to do that?

Re:Pure FUD (1)

GFree678 (1363845) | about 6 years ago | (#25261819)

Stop bring logic and rational thought into a Slashdot rant you bastard!

I tried the disk with and without internet access (3, Interesting)

gearloos (816828) | about 6 years ago | (#25261379)

I bought the disk Tuesday also and watched it that evening on my PS3. As mentioned earlier, the PS3 gives you the option to dload or not. I first tried it with my wireless disabled for the PS3 and it seemed to play fine. I then reloaded the disk and selected yes, dload content. It took about 1 minute (I have 6mg DSL). I did'nt watch the traffic to see how much content was dloaded, or to see if anything was actually dloaded other than Sony's rootkit..err... "User Experience Enhancement". It seemed to play the same, Dolby Digital Audio, 1080p, stream. Menus looked the same so I'm thinking it was the latest DRM that was dloaded. Point is that as long as your player supports it, it doesn't matter if it connects or not (for now anyway). We will see how strict the Blueray 2.0 spec is enforced as to internet access in the future.

Does this only apply to the PS3? (1)

johnek (740814) | about 6 years ago | (#25261465)

I have a sony Blu-Ray Player and it's not connected to the internet. It would be very interesting if it could still connect to the servers through some kind of wireless gigabit network that I could tap into ;)

Software strikes again! (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261467)

If the primary function of a device is to play fucking disks, then how the hell can the absence of a response to a frivolous function bring the whole thing down? OK, fine, go to the net to get some trash, but for the love of fuck, can't you software ASSHOLES program a simple IF THEN ELSE for when there's no response and the just go on with the job of PLAYING THE FUCKING DISK? God you software assholes get away with murder. Try shit like that in the hardware world you'd get your engineering status revoked.

Not sure what to make of it... (3, Informative)

cyberfunkr (591238) | about 6 years ago | (#25261477)

I think there was more to it than just the BD-Live issues.

Around 9:00pm we tried playing the disc on a first-gen PS3 80GB (just for reference) and it kept getting stuck at the loading screen (the ARC reactor and nothing else). Finally at 9:50pm we went back to the shop and exchanged it. Back home by 10:10pm, popped the disc in and it went through to the regular menu on the first try.

Did the server manage to come back to life in the 20 minutes it took to get a different disc? Or were there really a bad batch of discs?

other methods of distribution? (1)

oedneil (871555) | about 6 years ago | (#25261575)

Maybe they could have avoided this if they used a method other than HTTP to download content. Maybe where they host the whole file first, and share it with other clients? Each client could pass along ("seed"?) pieces to each other until everyone peers had the entire file. It would be way less server intensive for Paramount. Any ideas?

DIVX !! (2, Insightful)

GodWasAnAlien (206300) | about 6 years ago | (#25261663)

DIVX players that phoned home was a great idea that mysteriously failed.

Let's secretly try again with the new BD-drm players.

Then we can sell BD-disposables which only work in a phone-home player.

HD-DIVX-DRM+. The ultimate way to hide our data from those consumers!!

I bought Iron Man on Tuesday (0, Flamebait)

future assassin (639396) | about 6 years ago | (#25261753)

in DVD format. Put in into my $50 Toshiba player and wathced it with 0 problems. Long live the DVD format. BluRay what? $300 players LOL!

trying to kill first-sale (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25261833)

This definitely breaks First-sale Doctrine. coming straight from Wikipedia:

"In 1997 in Novell v. Network Trade Center 25 F. Supp. 2d 1218 (C.D. Utah 1997)[2] purchaser is an "owner" by way of sale and is entitled to the use and enjoyment of the software with the same rights as exist in the purchase of any other good. Said software transactions do not merely constitute the sale of a license to use the software. The shrinkwrap license included with the software is therefore invalid as against such a purchaser insofar as it purports to maintain title to the software in the copyright owner. Under the first sale doctrine, NTC was able to redistribute the software to end-users without copyright infringement. Transfer of a copyrighted work that is subject to the first sale doctrine extinguishes all distribution rights of the copyright holder upon transfer of title."

and

"In 2008, in Timothy S. Vernor v. Autodesk Inc.[2], a U.S. Federal District Judge in Washington rejected a software vendor's argument that it only licensed copies of its software, rather than selling them, and that therefore any resale of the software constituted copyright infringement. Judge Richard A. Jones cited first-sale doctrine when ruling that a reseller was entitled to sell used copies of the vendor's software regardless of any licensing agreement that might have bound the software's previous owners [3]."

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