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First Deus Ex 3 Details Emerge

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the coming-back-for-more dept.

PC Games (Games) 157

Ostracus writes "Deus Ex 3, the third entry in the influential FPS/RPG series, was confirmed to be in development by Eidos Montreal nearly a year ago — and now the first solid details on the game have finally emerged. UK magazine PC Zone has a cover story on Deus Ex 3 for their 200th issue (which has reportedly just begun reaching subscribers), and CVG has relayed a number of interesting tidbits from the preview: '... this time around combat won't be influenced by stats, but will rely purely on your personal marksmanship skills. Instead stats will influence "a vast array of fully upgradeable and customisable weapons," and you'll be able to tailor your arsenal to your play style with mag upgrades, scopes and other add-ons. What's more, stealth will now rely on a cover system rather than shadows, and damage will be dealt with by a very Call of Duty-style auto-heal.'"

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157 comments

Please please please please... (5, Insightful)

kbrasee (1379057) | more than 5 years ago | (#25269595)

... please don't make it ANYTHING like Deus Ex 2. The original was fantastic, but the sequel was a horrifying dumbed-down heavy-handed console mess. Ugh, and the stupid intrusive HUD... I played through the original 3 or 4 times, but the demo of Deus Ex 2 was way more than enough.

Re:Please please please please... (1)

Adriax (746043) | more than 5 years ago | (#25269775)

On the plus side, it won't be ANYTHING like Deus Ex 2.
Unfortunately the same can be said about 1 as well.

Re:Please please please please... (2)

atari2600 (545988) | more than 5 years ago | (#25270653)

I agree with you completely. I played the original atleast 4 times but I couldn't play the sequel more than a couple hours. Deux Ex also happens to be the only game I've purchased twice (whipped out the CD last month and found it was cracked - thankfully the annoying D2D had it for download). The graphics of Deus Ex look horrendous but the gameplay and the storyline (not to mention the awesome music) are really engaging even today.

Re:Please please please please... (4, Informative)

Chyeld (713439) | more than 5 years ago | (#25271127)

You may already be aware of it, but there is an on going project being worked on to retexture, model, and animate Deux Ex 1. The High Definition Texture Project [offtopicproductions.com] . I haven't seen the latest stuff, but it's been going for years.

Re:Please please please please... (2, Interesting)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 5 years ago | (#25271201)

Invisible War isn't nearly as bad as many people think it is. It's just not nearly as good as the original Deus Ex. Its main problems were that it was painfully slow even on the fastest computers at the time of its release, despite the fact that the graphics weren't that fantastic. It lacked the sense of freedom and exploration you got in Deus Ex, since the areas were very small and had a painfully long load time, and the story wasn't as good. But in the end, it had an OK gameplay experience. Nothing special, but far from Daikatana.

Re:Please please please please... (1)

Candid88 (1292486) | more than 5 years ago | (#25271289)

I'd second that!

Apart from the general dumbing down, the other thing which partly ruint the sequal for me was the way it was built for consoles.

Deus Ex 1 had vast open spaces which made the epic nature of the game feel even grander, whereas Deus Ex 2 felt far too boxed in and Quake-like.

It was a pity as the basic story-line and concept of the sequal was amazing. Anything featuring arcologies is a winner in my book!

soo hoping they wont ruin it like dx2 (4, Insightful)

Shadukar (102027) | more than 5 years ago | (#25269605)

I have re-played original deus ex upwards of 20-30 times ...sometimes just for the pure reading joy, sometimes for discovering new/hidden stuff i always seem to stumble upon and sometimes to just try something different (I did give up one attempt after I got out of Paris catacombs without directly killing a single enemy in combat)

deus ex 2 was piece of crap. i had none of the depth, none of atmosphere (despite obvious attempts at it), it had none of the fun game play, none of the re-playability. The only two good things I liked about dx2 was: machine supremacy soundtrack and the idoru.

If they want to make successful sequel, they could have went into more detail about how they have learned from the mistakes of the 2nd one, not just saying "oh yeah the universal ammo was bad but we still think console game ideas are good so we'll be putting more of them in"

personally, i would love to see an expansion pack for deus ex 1 - upgrade engine/graphics, maybe add some additional content, incorporate some half-finished mods/add-ons,etc.

Also, a real prequel where you play Paul Denton - that would be awesome! Especially all the adventures that are alluded in hong kong, miss chow, tracer tong, etc. Maybe starting with the formation of unatco - the statue of liberty being bombed, the start of grey plague, the climb to power by illuminati, and let us not forget a certain young french lady and her chatteau :)

Oh well, there is still time, the released information was not much to go by ...maybe all of these things will be part of the story line.

Re:soo hoping they wont ruin it like dx2 (4, Interesting)

mqduck (232646) | more than 5 years ago | (#25269713)

Agreed. The original formula worked so well. Why do they feel the need fuck it up? I think everyone would be thrilled with a Deus Ex sequel with a great new story and mostly the same gameplay (obviously the AI needs to be smarter and such).

And speaking of DX1 with upgraded graphics, check out:

High Definition Texture Pack
supposedly very close to completion
http://offtopicproductions.com/hdtp/ [offtopicproductions.com]

Deux Ex: Reborn (a UT2004 engine port)
unknown if this'll ever get finished. i believe the creator put it on hold to help finish the HDTP
http://dxr.deusexgaming.com/ [deusexgaming.com]

Re:soo hoping they wont ruin it like dx2 (1)

New_Age_Reform_Act (1256010) | more than 5 years ago | (#25269801)

SO i am not the only one who played Deus Ex repeat and repeat over time.

I haven't play the second one, and may be do it later when the price goes down to $9.

It will be nice to see they put this one through steam and setup a achievement system like the orange box.

Re:soo hoping they wont ruin it like dx2 (1)

Ostracus (1354233) | more than 5 years ago | (#25269857)

"I have re-played original deus ex upwards of 20-30 times ..."

Obviously you didn't run into the same bug that I did with the GOTY version.

If you save too many time the game can't continue when it does an auto save.

Re:soo hoping they wont ruin it like dx2 (1)

denton420 (1235028) | more than 5 years ago | (#25269863)

You are my new best friend shadukar. You pretty much described exactly how I feel about deus ex (after the 10th play through) and what I thought about dx2.

I played dx2 for like an hour and then never touched it again due to my disgust.

A remade dx1 would be the best case I think. Additional areas to explore + side missions would make it worthwhile for the not so devoted.

Re:soo hoping they wont ruin it like dx2 (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 5 years ago | (#25270701)

I think most people feel that way about it tbh. My little bro used to restart it all the time (before he'd even got to the end, which was the part I didn't understand, tho he did complete it too obviously). I was totally psyched for it, love the demo, and for some reason started playing through on Realistic difficulty when we got the full game. I spent a lot of time dying and loading up again, especially when it came to those crazy rocket launching robot dudes (or perhaps I was launching the rockets, can't remember that much about it now). I remember one time where I had almost no health and had to keep retrying and retrying the escape from the restaurant. Anyway, then my dad overwrote my save game and after spending weeks getting to where I was, I really didn't want to go through it all again unfortunately. I probably shouldn't have started off on Realistic, but I'm the sort of person who plays a game once and doesn't do so again* because they already remember everything. I understand that Deus Ex has multiple plot lines though. It's been enough years that I'd probably enjoy it again now, but I still don't think I'd go for Realistic mode to start with. I get far too tense (basically you can be killed with one shot most of the time). You should have seen me when I was playing Operation Flashpoint, sneaking around everywhere. Only after or near completion of the game did I realise you could actually crawl right under the enemies' noses and get away with it basically, the AI wasn't very realistic at all! As someone alluded above, the AI in Deus Ex was pretty dumb too.

*actually with "Uncharted!" on the PS3 recently I went through it on all difficulty modes just because there was a 'medal' system where you unlocked rewards for accomplishing challenges like killing 3 enemies with one explosion, etc and I found that interesting, so I completed the first 3 dificulties before lending it to a friend. I don't recall replaying any other single player games like that, but I can spend months/years playing multiplayer games like Counter-Strike.

Re:soo hoping they wont ruin it like dx2 (3, Insightful)

Toonol (1057698) | more than 5 years ago | (#25269887)

I don't think 2 was a piece of crap, but I played it first, so I probably didn't have your expectations. I thought it was a fairly typical example of FPS/RPG hybrid. Later, playing the first one, I understand how you feel. Going from superb to mediocre is a jolt, even if the mediocre game isn't really that bad.

Sounds like 3 will be worse, from the description.

Re:soo hoping they wont ruin it like dx2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25270381)

An expansion would be entirely unnecessary. Everything you could want, plot and environment-wise, is already in the original game.

Pick an engine that wouldn't choke to death on the level design (Oblivion/Fallout 3 would probably work just fine) redo all the graphics; give the enemies decent AI, tweak the balance so that everything still works---and voila. Leave the dialogue system just as it is, at most replacing the more awful voice acting.

Frankly, I'm not entirely sure why they've never done it. It would be pretty much guaranteed to sell enough to recoup the costs; especially given the severely reduced amount of time you'd have to spend on writing, level design, and game mechanics. I can think of any number of people who would buy a remake of DX; I'd buy two. Unless it had really nasty DRM. Then I'd buy one and pirate a copy.

Re:soo hoping they wont ruin it like dx2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25270445)

The only two good things I liked about dx2 was: machine supremacy soundtrack and the idoru.

I checked [wikipedia.org] , but found no mention of Machinae Supremacy. And it was the Majestic 12, not the Illuminati, that climbed to power pre-DX1. :)

Re:soo hoping they wont ruin it like dx2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25270869)

All of the game music in DX2 was made by Alexander Brandon. The NG Resonance songs were done by the KidneyThieves. I have the album that they took the songs from.

Majestic 12 was crushed in the original DX and no longer exists. It was indeed the Illuminati in DX2, or more accurately the Illuminati (Chad Dumier & Nicolette Duclare) vs Templar Knights (Luminon Samon) vs JC Denton vs the Omar.

If you can't tell, I am a huge Deus Ex fan. The original game was far better than DX2, but I still think DX2 had a relatively good story.

Re:soo hoping they wont ruin it like dx2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25271035)

So am I. :)
 
While it is true that MJ12 was crushed in DX1, the Illuminati was in a very weakened state up until the end of DX1. So a prequel would not touch on the subject of the Illuminati much.

Re:soo hoping they wont ruin it like dx2 (1)

Shadukar (102027) | more than 5 years ago | (#25271831)

ah yes, kidney thieves ...my mistake ...no idea why i got that mixed up with machinae supremacy :(

Don't trust this report. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25269619)

CVG is a Versalife PR front. Posted anon. cantlet them find me.

Deus Ex3 features announced: (5, Insightful)

Shadukar (102027) | more than 5 years ago | (#25269665)

* Sinister voice of Simons will be returning to announce ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKS !
* mulitplayer death match via XBOX LIVE
* development focusing on volumetric 3d shadows.
* all NPCs that can offer quests will have a yellow exclamation mark over their head so you don't waste time talking to pointless NPCS!
* 2 ammo types. better than 1/universal ammo (see? we learn/listen to feedback)
* reading is for intellectualfags/pc fags. you play console games for fun, so there'll be none of that rubbish in dx3!
* It is a prequel where you play a character completely unrelated to the original game, in circumstances only vaguel related to the original game, in a storyline completely separate to the original game. It is a prequel.
* You will not be going anywhere near a certain chateau in France.
* maggie chow and tracer tong storylines unlockable via paid downloadable content.
* One install per device guaranteed by SecuROM

Mod Parent Depressingly Insightful (4, Insightful)

Alaren (682568) | more than 5 years ago | (#25269759)

It's hard not to be depressed about this announcement. Especially where they claim to be "avoiding" the mistakes of Deus Ex 2... by introducing completely new mistakes.

The original Deus Ex was something of a sleeper hit. Though it sold reasonably well, I don't think it ever topped the million mark. Ironically Deus Ex 2 sold about as many copies. The original was "critically acclaimed" as opposed to "bestselling." It was barely even an FPS; what made Deus Ex was not the combat, but the story, atmosphere, and dizzying variety of possible approaches to any given problem.

Cover system? Call-of-Duty style anything? Parent's tongue-in-cheek post is probably exactly what we're going to get. Multiplayer deathmatch is completely outside the spirit of Deus Ex but every first-person perspective game seems to require it anymore. It's like Shadowrun all over again--taking a massive dump on beloved properties in an attempt to be the "next Halo."

I don't want the next Halo! I want a true sequel to Deus Ex. But apparently we're still not going to get that.

Re:Mod Parent Depressingly Insightful (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25274165)

What? DX Had the best multiplayer i've seen yet, the depth from all the skills and augmentations available made it incredibly complex and forced players to become incredibly skilled in at least one specific tactic, a day playing dxmp is worth a year or more in any other game. To this day the tone of a LAM beeping makes me jump reflexively.
The only problem was the expert and small player base combined with complexity made the learning curve an overhanging wall.

"Critically acclaimed" doesn't mean much (3, Interesting)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 5 years ago | (#25274853)

1. Unfortunately, "critically acclaimed" doesn't really mean much. It means that at least one reviewer wrote a glowing review, whether because he really bends over that easily for the publisher's ads and freebies, or because he liked the idea lots after playing for 5 minutes on God mode.

Anarchy Online was "critically acclaimed" and it was launched as an unplayable mess of bugs, with bad balance. It lost players hand over fist _fast_ and only stabilized after being turned into a freebie ad-supported game, and even then at a _pitiful_ number of subscribers. So not that many players liked it either.

Aiken's Artefact was "critically acclaimed" and IIRC it sold a pitiful 800 copies in the beginning. (Not sure how many more were bundled later in "top X games" bundles.)

Looking Glass's games were "critically acclaimed" and had such a rabid following that, arguably, it was the "OMG, Eidos killed Looking Glass to keep funding Daikatana" that broke the camel's back and triggered the devastating backlash against what would have otherwise have been merely a mediocre game with outdated graphics. But, funnily enough, Looking Glass had more rabid fanboys, than it had paying customers. Their last couple of games (e.g., the Terra Nova experiment) sold pitifully few copies, and even other publishers (e.g., Microsoft) no longer wanted to touch them with a ten foot polearm. Reviewers and fanboys ranted and raved about how great and innovative the Looking Glass games are, but people didn't actually buy those games.

So aiming for "critically acclaimed" instead of sales, is a bit like aiming to be the ugly girl with a great personality.

Now I'm not saying that DX1 was "bad", so hold yer horses. But if it didn't sell great, it didn't sell great, and that's that. I can see why a publisher or developper would try to change a few bits and see if it does better.

2. And part of its problem was that it wasn't really anything anyone could put their finger upon. It was barely even an FPS, but it required FPS skills to get out of a firefight alive. It wasn't a forced stealth game, but mostly you had to anyway... except when it wouldn't work and you'd be back to needing FPS skills again. It was barely even a CRPG, but it tried to tell CRPG fans that it was one. Then they'd need FPS skills or have to deal with forced stealth, instead of the usual concentrating on the semi-interactive storyline while letting the computer roll the targeting dice. Etc.

Now I'm not saying that _only_ FPS skills worked, but... let's put it like this: from all that bewildering array of possibilities for solving any problem, there'd be at least one point in the game where _your_ favourite approach just didn't work and you had to do something else. For each category of players, a different one.

Basically instead of catering to the union of FPS, stealth and RPG fans, it really catered to an intersection of the three sets. You had to be the kind of guy who enjoys all three, to go through the whole game and like it. Because otherwise sooner or later a section of the game would come up which forced you to do the one you dislike.

Now if you were indeed at least semi-comfortable with all 3, I'm not going to say you shouldn't like it. In fact, I'm happy for you. But, well, that's one possibility as to why it had only mediocre sales. Because it really catered to a minority.

And from that point of view, again I can see why a publisher would try to enlarge that target market segment.

Expanding Appeal is Not Necessarily a Virtue (1)

Alaren (682568) | more than 5 years ago | (#25275591)

Actually that's a very incisive evaluation of the game. I think you are unnecessarily cynical about the nature of critical acclaim--one rave review or a handful of rabid fans does not critical acclaim create, at least not in my book--but that's probably a bit of nitpickery. In substance your post is spot-on.

But here's the challenge.

And from that point of view, again I can see why a publisher would try to enlarge that target market segment.

This is precisely why gamers get so angry about sequels like this (or, for that matter, "original" games like Shadowrun). The marketing department wants to "expand their target audience" but the most beloved games of all time cater to a niche. If it's already a big enough niche to turn a profit, seeking to "expand the appeal" may actually turn off the original niche.

Which may be fine from an economic tradeoff perspective--lose 500,000 players to gain a million--but the problem now is that the "franchise" started with the original game loses its ability to serve as a signal for purchasers. If I played the original Deus Ex, loved it, and then went on a hermitage for a couple years, when I came back to civilization and saw "Deus Ex 2" at GameStop I would have at least moderately rational expectations about that game--expectations that would almost certainly be incorrect.

Where this leads is a market catering to the "biggest niche." Everyone is falling all over themselves to cater to the Halo/Call of Duty/Rainbow Six crowd. Well, that's fine, but it ignores the (arguably) smaller but nonetheless potentially profitable group of people who don't want another generic FPS. And so the competition for the biggest niche's dollars gets ratcheted up, and you wind up discovering that you probably would have made just as much money, plus preserved the strength of your brand, by catering to the franchise's existing audience.

Thus, "enlarging the target market segment" is probably a misnomer, especially with classic and critically acclaimed franchises.

In all of this, let me hasten to add that "enlarging the market" is not always a bad thing. It has worked beautifully for Nintendo, for example. However, what most economists and MBAs seem unwilling to admit is that it is entirely possible to "make a living" filling a reasonably static niche. Here the conversation devolves into an argument about growth economies and market models well beyond the scope of conversation, but it's worth considering the possibility that "enlarging the target market segment" is a bigger gamble than just giving the smaller niche the game it's been begging for.

Re:"Critically acclaimed" doesn't mean much (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 5 years ago | (#25275755)

Planescape Torment was critically acclaimed by the few who played it. Many called it the best PC game ever. Yet so few bought it, we'll never see another game like it.

Re:Deus Ex3 features announced: (3, Insightful)

johannesg (664142) | more than 5 years ago | (#25269925)

Indeed, that's the impression I got as well. And that focus on weapons is just depressing. Remember where you start off at the dock in DX1, and you get berated for choosing the GEP-gun? *That* is how DX1 dealt with weapons. Sure, it was also a shooter, but the real draw was the fantastic storyline, the various RPG mechanics were a lot of fun, and you had to live with the choices that you made.

I have had my fill of nameless, faceless muscle guys with big guns. I have already stopped buying games that only seem to get reviews that focus on the details of the weapons instead of on gameplay or storyline - evidentally these games are now so much alike that there is no need to talk about anything else anymore.

Anyway, let's rejoice that we had games like DX1 at all, that there was a time when such things were possible. Like the 2D scrolling shooter they are dead now, but they are fondly remembered as the grand experiments that they were...

Re:Deus Ex3 features announced: (2, Interesting)

bonch (38532) | more than 5 years ago | (#25270525)

I read a developer interview (it was probably Warren Spector) in which he talked about how one of the things that stuck with people who played Deus Ex was at the end of the first level, if you were aggressive and killed a lot of NSF members, your brother sternly says, "Yeah, well, pace yourself. You killed a lot of people tonight." It was unexpected (other than Paul in the beginning reminding you that you're police, there was nothing in the game to indicate that it cared either way how you handled the enemies) and set the tone for the rest of the game.

Re:Deus Ex3 features announced: (1, Interesting)

Goaway (82658) | more than 5 years ago | (#25271443)

the various RPG mechanics were a lot of fun, and you had to live with the choices that you made.

See, that's the thing. If I wanted to "live with the choices that I made", I would be living my real life, not playing a game.

"Living with the choices that I made" is not fun. It just creates stress and worry when I am supposed to be enjoying myself.

Re:Deus Ex3 features announced: (1)

shish (588640) | more than 5 years ago | (#25274259)

stress and worry when I am supposed to be enjoying myself

When you play tetris, do you play the variant with only one column, and all your blocks are 1x1? :P

Stress and worry are very enjoyable, when you overcome them. Where's the enjoyment in getting to the end of a game with zero challenge?

I found the specialisation aspects of DX1 to be one of my favourite parts, as it allowed me to play the game according to my own personality (making use of stealth and gadgets); then once I'd done that a couple of times, trying different approaches (athlete, heavy weapons spec) had very different experiences. An important difference between DX and real life is that if you don't like your choice of specialisation in DX, you can start over and choose a different one~

Re:Deus Ex3 features announced: (1)

Goaway (82658) | more than 5 years ago | (#25274641)

In Tetris, all my choices and consequences are laid open before me. The gameplay is unchanging throughout the game, and I know exactly how it will proceed at any given point. Moreover, it is a game that is played again over and over.

A game like Deus Ex, however, doesn't show me how my actions will influence future events up front. And neither is it a game that is played over and over again so that you grow used to what kind of action is advisable in what circumstance. You are left guessing at every step.

Re:Deus Ex3 features announced: (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25272165)

Remember where you start off at the dock in DX1, and you get berated for choosing the GEP-gun?

No, because Paul berates you if you choose the Sniper Rifle. "These are real people you're shooting at here, JC." If you pick the GEP gun, he warns you that there's a security bot on patrol.

(And really, who doesn't pick the GEP gun? You can pick up the first two weapons in the Liberty Island mission, and the GEP gun helps you deal with those menacing locked doors.)

Obviously, you sir need to play through this game again.

Re:Deus Ex3 features announced: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25275163)

In terms of a spiritual heir to Deus Ex, may I recommend The Witcher?

This was originally a fairly underground hit (so much so that it wasn't stocked by my local stores at all and I had to use direct2drive) but it has a lot of the deus ex features: choices that MEAN something (and it's usually bad), a control scheme that is action-oriented but also rpg-based, huge variety in the way you can complete objectives and an excellent, dark, adult storyline.

There is also the equivalent of a french chateau or three.

Understanding Deus Ex (2, Insightful)

bonch (38532) | more than 5 years ago | (#25270505)

I don't understand why developers apparently have a hard time understanding what made Deus Ex great, especially when they could just play the original and see for themselves. The mechanics of the original game were perfect. Why did DX2 abandon them? Why is DX3 doing the same? I think we must accept that Deus Ex was a one-time thing and that the sequels aren't up to the level of quality required to be considered canon.

Removing the effect of stats on markmanship is removing something that was fun and cool from the original game, coping with your character's wobbly sniper shots which disappeared over time as you upgraded his sniper skills--if you decided to play a sniper, of course. I don't even know what to say about recharging health other than, of all games, Deus Ex is not the franchise to implement it in.

Re:Understanding Deus Ex (1)

Aphoxema (1088507) | more than 5 years ago | (#25273163)

I don't understand why developers apparently have a hard time understanding what made Deus Ex great...

Because all the developers these days are fresh college graduates who get picked up really fast so they can get paid low wages to tell themselves they're making the next big thing when it's just the same old thing. It's not just the 'target audience' I.E. dumb kids with more money than they know what to really do with, it's the loss of the minds that CREATED the 'gaming industry'.

When Doom and Descent and Leisure Suit Larry and Kings Quest and Sonic and Mortal Kombat and all the other 80's 90's classics broke the mold, they just made stronger ones out of them. Anything that goes outside the gaming status quo, like Bloodlines, just seems weird to the masses who created the EA monster by buying the next NFL 'XX.

We may never have another Duke Nukem or Starcraft or Star Control II.

Re:Understanding Deus Ex (1)

TheGeniusIsOut (1282110) | more than 5 years ago | (#25273537)

Because after the success of DX1 they thought they could make it better by moving it to a bigger development studio. They need to give the franchise back to Ion Storm here in Austin, and let them make the series what it was supposed to be.

Re:Deus Ex3 features announced: (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 5 years ago | (#25270751)

Sinister voice of Simons will be returning to announce ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKS !

Isn't that basically what most RPG games do? Unlock levels or upgrade equipment. The unlocks in more recent games have often been the things that kept me interested. Recently I replayed "Uncharted!" on a couple of difficulty modes just to get all the unlocks, and I basically never replay single player games. Unfortunately with Battlefield Bad Company I got to level 25 (which means most unlocked weapons) and I've never loaded it again for some reason.

I'm used to multiplayer games being about the fun experience of playing rather than rewards. Single player games usually can't offer the same experience as the AI is often dumb and repetitive, so they're all about set challenges through different levels, whereas multiplayer games mean that you could stay on the same map for days and still have fun, because the team and/or enemy AI is what makes it interesting.

A cooperative version of Deus Ex would be amazing, I'd probably take a holiday just to play it through with my brother.

Re:Deus Ex3 features announced: (1)

Nick Ives (317) | more than 5 years ago | (#25273769)

Sinister voice of Simons will be returning to announce ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKS !

Isn't that basically what most RPG games do? Unlock levels or upgrade equipment. The unlocks in more recent games have often been the things that kept me interested.

Oh please no! I'm not normally condescending about things like this but DX was never about any of that rubbish! It had an awesome storyline and most of the things you could "unlock" were never advertised as such.

The reward for saving JC's brother, Paul, was that he showed up in Tong's lab in Hong Kong and gave you some advice at the end of the game. It was just full of choices, every situation would change the other characters attitudes towards you in although often inconsequential ways. It had more of the air of interactive fiction with guns tacked on than a traditional first-person RPG

Re:Deus Ex3 features announced: (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 5 years ago | (#25274101)

Oh, Deus Ex could most definitely hold its own as a great game without tacking on any more stuff, but you did get extra abilities as the game progressed - same as most other RPGs. I was just pointing out that it's a standard RPG formula which other types of games are now happening to copy heavily with things like the PS3 Trophies and whatever the things are that the Xbox does.

I'd always heard that you couldn't actually save Paul, and it was certainly nigh on impossible in Realistic mode so I didn't try for long as I assumed it was just like any other game and it was 'meant' to happen. I didn't realise how special it was. I should have just played through on medium difficulty or something to experience the story (my younger brother played it through many many times, often not even bothering to complete it). I loved it mostly for the amazing graphics and physics, I doubt I've read any of the literature that I've heard it commonly has references to (I must have been only about 14 or 15 at the time it came out as well, and I've always been more into fantasy novels like Terry Pratchett's Discworld and Raymond E Feist's Riftwar Saga than real world or sci-fi conspiracy novels).

I don't feel condescended in any way btw. I didn't realise Tong's lab was at the end of the game, maybe I was closer to completing it than I realised (my dad overwrote my save game by mistake and I really didn't want to go through the game on realistic difficulty again - it was crazy difficult :/ ).

Re:Deus Ex3 features announced: (2, Insightful)

Nick Ives (317) | more than 5 years ago | (#25274971)

I actually found realistic rather easy, mainly because stealth was so overpowered (as long as you were crouching in shadow, it didn't matter that you were right in front of the enemy).

Tongs lab was in the middle of the game, it's just that there's a moment right before the final level where someone gives you some advice. If Paul survives, he gets the honours. DX was full of moments like that; depending on what you'd said or done previously little story details would develop differently, often just a line or two of dialogue but still. I think those little details more than anything are what made DX unique and the lack of those details is what ruined DX2 and, by the looks of things, the upcoming sequel.

If they just made sure the game was full of meaningful little moments like those then they'd go a long way towards keeping the magic of the original DX.

Unfortunately, I read an interview with one of the DX developers a few months ago where he basically said DX was a massive fluke. He had now idea how they'd managed to bring all the plot together at the last minute and he'd have no idea how to do it again! Maybe they should just do a high-def remake and call it quits, eh?

Re:Deus Ex3 features announced: (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 5 years ago | (#25275293)

Maybe they should just do a high-def remake and call it quits, eh?

Agreed, I'd buy it.

I don't think it was just about the story, I was totally psyched for the game because of all the cool technological stuff it had as well. Back then it was ground-breaking for me with its physics (objects floating and such) and graphics. It still did some things better than Half-Life 2 and the like do today. I'm sure the developers of HL could make more complex inventory systems, modifiable weapons, interactive keypads, lock picking, stealth and all that good stuff, but Deus Ex did everything, and it did it well. Games like Metal Gear Solid 4 are probably the closest thing out there today, but still not quite as good (too arcadey for my liking, and I hate how contrived the bosses are).

I don't remember the stealth being quite so easy, even with invisibility nanites or whatever, and I think those big robot guys could see your heat signature so I always found it tense (just as I found Operation Flashpoint tense, though I realised either near the end or afterwards that you could crawl under the enemies' faces in the dark and they wouldn't see you.. I spent a lot of time in that game just crawling through woodlands and such because I was frickin scared of being seen).

Re:Deus Ex3 features announced: (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25270997)

* all NPCs that can offer quests will have a yellow exclamation mark over their head so you don't waste time talking to pointless NPCS!

That would be really useful the next time i go to the pub, yellow exclamation marks over the girls I should talk to.

Re:Deus Ex3 features announced: (1)

MadUndergrad (950779) | more than 5 years ago | (#25271057)

Holy crap, I thought you were joking. But then I RTFA...

"Augmentations have been bumped up and sound fantastic. 20 have been promised for the final game, ranging from 'bungee jump' tentacles that shoot from your back and anchor to a wall when you jump off a building, and the ability to punch through walls to grab enemies in neighbouring rooms."

What is this, City of Zeroes? This comic book madness has to stop. It sounds like this is going to be worse than the second one.

Re:Deus Ex3 features announced: (1)

Alzheimers (467217) | more than 5 years ago | (#25271809)

inister voice of Simons will be returning to announce ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKS !

FYI, the "Voice of Simmons" is none other then legendary game developer Tom Hall. [wordpress.com]

Since he's working on his own MMO right now, I don't know how keen* he'd be on returning to the Deus Ex world for some voiceover.

*lol, I made a pun [mobygames.com]

Typo: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25269689)

"Deus Ex 3, the third entry in the influential FPS/RPG series, was confirmed to be in development by Eidos Montreal nearly a year ago â" and now the first sordid details on the game have finally emerged.

Fixed that for you.

Bad decision (4, Insightful)

Kallahan (599898) | more than 5 years ago | (#25269701)

One of the main reasons Deus Ex 2 was such a let down was the removal of the skill system affecting marksmanship. It was and extremely pivotal game device that affected how you'd play the game from level 1. You could not run in gun in the end game unless you were trained to run and gun.

I was just thinking... (1)

NoName6272 (1376401) | more than 5 years ago | (#25269749)

I was just thinking "I really need to start playing Deus Ex". I've always meant too but life just drags you away from epic ness... perhaps it was to prevent me from knowing joy, or perhaps it was to prevent me from feeling depressed if Deus Ex3 fails... suppose we shall soon see.

~
NoName

No No No (4, Insightful)

p0tat03 (985078) | more than 5 years ago | (#25270017)

What are they thinking with Call of Duty style regenerating health? Seriously... Deus Ex is not a run and gun game, it's a game that rewards resourcefulness and steathiness. The COD-style recharging health mechanic has *no place* here. The sole reason for recharging health is to keep the game pace up and allow the player to keep charging into frenetic combat in action games. Deus Ex is not one of these games.

I was looking forward to this, no longer following this now. Wake me up if this turns out to be good somehow.

Re:No No No (3, Informative)

LarsWestergren (9033) | more than 5 years ago | (#25270521)

What are they thinking with Call of Duty style regenerating health? Seriously... Deus Ex is not a run and gun game, it's a game that rewards resourcefulness and steathiness.

I had a brief fit of nerd-rage when I read this article. It occasionally sounded like they were turning it into a lame console shooter...even more than DX:IW. But It has the head writer from the first game back, and the community representative have allayed some of my fears.

When they said a "cover system" many people have taken that to mean it is going to be something like Gears of War, but apparently it is still a sneaky game. The sneak mechanics uses line of sight instead than light/shadow. Having only light/shadow could be a bit silly sometimes when you were crouching in a shadow spot in the middle of a open lawn just meters away from someone and they didn't see you. Personally I'd like a combination of the two mechanics, but maybe that is difficult/time consuming to implement.

They have also promised an open non-linear world this time, choice and consequences, good dialogue and characters. Also XP/upgrades, and that "Deus Ex 3 is an RPG. An action/RPG like the first one".

Re:No No No (1)

p0tat03 (985078) | more than 5 years ago | (#25270539)

Open-linear is good. It was where the original game excelled and where the second game failed. Think back to the Liberty Island mission in DX1 - you could finish any number of objectives in any order, using any approach. It was true gaming freedom. The whole game was like that, and I loved it.

I don't mind the cover system for stealth. I enjoyed Splinter Cell, even the ones operating in broad daylight, and those games are constantly a lot of fun.

The main beef I have is the health system. There is *no point* to a complex cover and stealth system if there is *no punishment* for failing - and that is exactly what regenerative health encourages. Oops, did I let that security camera see me? Oh well, I'll just duck behind this crate here and snipe at enemies, regenerating health when necessary, until they're all dead. The player has no incentive to do ANYTHING like stealth or NPC interaction if all they have to do is run and gun with no penalties at all.

Of course, the easy (and worst) way the devs will solve this is to make ammo scarce, which is one of the best ways to cripple a shooter. I like games that make me conserve my ammo, not ones where I hit a quickload every time I miss.

Re:No No No (1)

ozphx (1061292) | more than 5 years ago | (#25270541)

Yes yes yes. Lack of regenerating health has always been something I've hated about games. An injury model? Sure. That would rule.

But the whole crawling around on 10% health bullshit is a hangover from the days of Wolf/Doom where you were given 100% health and had to kill X enemies. Then you got more health for the next encounter.

Deus Ex doesn't have to be like that, and it doesnt have to make it into a run and gun game.

Stuff up while getting past a guard, manage to barely take him out but the alarm is raised? Limp off to a hiding spot and wait for the alert to die down. Thats good. Being forced to reload now and try again because odds-on you won't be able to finish the mission on 50% health is just plain disruptive to the game.

The health doesn't have to regenerate fast. It doesnt have to stop you from dying when you do something stupid. It can make each individual challenge harder without making the entire level impossible.

Think of it like the typical game alarm system. You fuck up but hide, the alert level goes down over time. You "won" that sitation. Now move onto the next one. Health should work the same. Its only there to stop you acting like Duke Nukem.]

Having health that gains a percent a second but the total being a quarter of the hitpoints of "normal" health would be better imo. Thats around a full minute of hiding to regain all your health.

Re:No No No (4, Insightful)

p0tat03 (985078) | more than 5 years ago | (#25270577)

Regenerating health is an easy (and crappy) solution to a problem. The problem was that game pace was getting broken up when players ran low on health. Instead of having fun shooting things players were scrounging around for medkits (or worse, quickloading constantly).

Regenerating health gets you back into the action, back to shooting stuff, faster. But it's precisely this reason why it doesn't fit with a game like Deus Ex.

With DX half the fun isn't shooting people, it's avoiding them, hacking systems around them, or using indirect ways to kill them. The player is outgunned and in many cases outclassed by the enemy, which unlike most games doesn't mean constant medkit hunting, it simply means that you have to explore the various ways the game lets you outsmart your enemies... Hack that turret and turn it against the guards. Or, disable the security camera so the guards are never summoned. That was the fun of the game, because getting into a fight was a resource drain, and forced the player to think outside of the standard run and gun combination. I've had problems in many shooters from the Deus Ex era that had you constantly low on health and quickloading, but DX wasn't ever one of them.

Stuff up while getting past a guard, manage to barely take him out but the alarm is raised? Limp off to a hiding spot and wait for the alert to die down.

Or do it like the original game did. Raised the alarm? Get into a hiding spot quick, and use hit and run tactics to take out your enemies. Or, you race back to a room you were in before with thre auto-turret you conveniently hacked, instant death to your enemies. Or you drop a few tear gas grenades and get the hell out of there. Regenerating health removes the incentive to try ANY of the above options. All it does is tell the player "don't worry, don't bother thinking, just retreat, pull out your biggest gun, and keep shooting", which IMHO is really the wrong way for Deus Ex of all games to be going.

Now on the flip side you have GRAW regeneration, which I'm a fan of. GRAW divided your life bar into multiple segments. Your health will regenerate slowly up to your current life bar segment (e.g. you can recharge from 63 to 75, but not higher. To actually "heal" requires medpacks. This is a great way to keep the player from hanging on by a thread of a few health points, but at the same time institutes a real penalty for getting careless and getting shot. I would much prefer this system in DX.

Re:No No No (1)

Overly Critical Guy (663429) | more than 5 years ago | (#25270631)

The problem was that game pace was getting broken up when players ran low on health. Instead of having fun shooting things players were scrounging around for medkits (or worse, quickloading constantly).

Oh, the horror! They had to reload a save game and play better! They actually faced the prospect of failure!

Today's games coddle the player. They're way too easy.

Re:No No No (1)

Goaway (82658) | more than 5 years ago | (#25271473)

That's not "facing the prospect of failure". It's just doing the same thing over and over again.

"Facing the prospect of failure" would be to not have saves.

Re:No No No (1)

bonch (38532) | more than 5 years ago | (#25274505)

All games have you do the same thing over and over, so that's not a valid point. Regenerating health makes it so you never get to lose. There's no challenge or threat of your character dying. Essentially, it turns games into big, safe tech demos.

Re:No No No (1)

Goaway (82658) | more than 5 years ago | (#25274589)

All games have you do the same thing over and over, so that's not a valid point.

That still doesn't make load-save gameplay "facing the prospect of failure", which was the main point.

Regenerating health makes it so you never get to lose. There's no challenge or threat of your character dying.

Regenerating health doesn't mean your character can not die. It just means that escape is a possibility, instead of having to reload.

Both represent an escape from failure, but escape feels more natural and fun, and doesn't interrupt the natural flow of the gameplay.

Re:No No No (1)

ozphx (1061292) | more than 5 years ago | (#25271799)

If you are thinking about your health and medkits then you are metagaming. You are not immersed. The game is probably less enjoyable, unless you are into the sort of faggotry which comes with memorising weapon stats and spray patterns like CS kiddies.

Re:No No No (1)

Overly Critical Guy (663429) | more than 5 years ago | (#25274171)

I'm not immersed if the game is holding my hand and magically auto-healing me so that I never lose. I find it amusing that you consider "thinking" a negative for a game, especially Deus Ex. Says everything I need to know about you and your gaming tastes. What you want is the EZ-mode gameplay that has become the mainstay of console shooters. They're games made for mouthbreathing high school kiddies amped up on caffeine who never want to experience any failure or they'll get nerd-raged.

Re:No No No (1)

bonch (38532) | more than 5 years ago | (#25274543)

I would consider auto-healing and awareness of "game pace" even more of a non-immersive metagaming problem. Apparently, players today will complain if the game is not holding their hand the whole way through. This strange, safe gameplay would have been mocked 10 years ago. The lesson here is to never underestimate the destruction that XBox gamers cause to the rest of the industry.

Re:No No No (1)

p0tat03 (985078) | more than 5 years ago | (#25274749)

Deus Ex was never about the immersion. The graphics were lackluster even when it came out, the music was often distractingly bad, and the voice acting was a little sub-par as well.

But keep in mind of the game's origins: Warren Spector started his career as a traditional gamer - which is to say card games, board games, and the such. He knows that to make a fun game you don't necessarily need VR goggles and surround sound.

Think about a game like Risk. Tons of fun, but not immersive in the least, nor realistic. The fun comes from the raw mechanics of gameplay, not feeling like you're there, and IMHO this is what a lot of games are missing. So much effort is being spent to make games a second reality that it's simply not FUN anymore.

BTW, Deus Ex never made you memorize spray patterns nor any stats at all. Your skill in weapons were represented in real-time by the reticule, and your health was monitored through a body parts graph. It's RPG gaming without the numbers, which worked out AWESOME.

Re:No No No (1)

not already in use (972294) | more than 5 years ago | (#25273025)

Today's games coddle the player. They're way too easy.

So true. Most games today are only made difficult by the fact that they are overly complicated. Nowadays I find myself spending the most time playing games I paid $10 for XBLA, specifically geometry wars 1 and 2, and megaman 9.

Re:No No No (1)

ozphx (1061292) | more than 5 years ago | (#25270689)

I agree. I think you perhaps misinterpreted my intention of the regenerating health. Running backwards would not cut it. Regen would be a balance issue, and just say you pegged it at 1 hp/sec and you are being chased by a bunch of blokes doing 10 hp/sec, the regen is negligable to the outcome.

I'm definitely not advocating a duck-behind cover, full health in 2 seconds system. That would obviously ruin the game. Going and hiding and tooling around with medkits in an inventory system isn't a great game mechanic though.

Re:No No No (1)

Overly Critical Guy (663429) | more than 5 years ago | (#25270621)

Deus Ex doesn't have to be like that, and it doesnt have to make it into a run and gun game.

It wasn't like that. However, if you trained your character that way, you could indeed play run and gun. That was the beauty of that game.

You keep referencing some imaginary scenario in which you're forced to survive the rest of some impossible level with low health, ignoring the fact that there were tons of medkits lying around in Wolf/Doom. In fact, in Deus Ex, you had an inventory to store your medkits and could buy them or discover them through exploration, utilizing skills you may have specialized in, such as lockpicking or computer hacking. You could even increase the effectiveness of medkits, and there were health bots. If all that wasn't enough, then you just needed to reload your save game and play better.

I know, I know, probably sounds horrible in this era of coddling, no-punishment gaming like WoW. This attempt to portray permanent damage as "bullshit" from some forgotten era is silly. It makes me sad, because I suspect you're the target demographic--a demographic of people who are accustomed to EZ-mode shooters in which you can duck behind a corner and magically auto-heal your whole lifebar like some low-grade MMO.

Re:No No No (1)

ozphx (1061292) | more than 5 years ago | (#25270767)

One of the most entertaining modern FPSs I've played was the R6 Vegas games on the hardest difficulty. That came with regenerating health and a cover system.

It worked _well_. On the hardest difficulty, you could be killed in a single 3 round burst from an SMG, or a direct hit to your center of mass from a rifle. You had to be careful. A glancing hit to an extremity or a stray low velocity round to the armour would knock you for six. Your character would act like you just got punched in the guts, blurred vision, wobbly aim for ten seconds. Get clipped again, and you'd be dead. None of this "old bullshit from a forgotton era" of some integer ticking down with the hits without ill effects until you die.

This made the game harder. None of this crap where you decide you have "enough medkits" to be able to jump out of cover and shoot some guy. Enough fucking medkits indeed. In a decent game if you are pinned down then you can't get away with that shit.

If your idea of a fun game is "well I can probably just sprint past them while bashing the medkit key", or "well I dealt with the guard pretty well, but the bullet thats stuck in my armor unfortunately gave me 35 damage, which is a bit high, so I should probably reload" then... enjoy.

We need a middleground between invulnerability and one-shot-one-kill. Health/Medkits is a pretty unsophisticated solution to "should the player have died from his recent actions"?

When a player is trying to get through a sequence of challenges, to make them challenging you have to balance them against the ability of the player. Otherwise the player cannot succeed, or only succeed by exploiting shitty AI. Both crap options. If you want to balance this out, then the players toughness needs to be a known quantity. So they are basically going to have to approach each challenge on full health. So you can pick between a fiddle around with a stupid medkit system or player recovers slowly over time anyway.

Re:No No No (1)

mobby_6kl (668092) | more than 5 years ago | (#25272131)

You know what's an infinitely better game than R6 Vegas? Rainbow Six: Raven Shield.

No medkits there. And, for that matter, no regenerative health bullshit either. To balance things out you had up to seven heavily armed doodz coming with you to take down a few dozen terrorists. Again, in contrast to Vegas where they send 3 guys to kill hundreds of bad guys. Oh, and terrorists did not spawn in empty dead-end rooms by the side of your travel route once triggered.

Goddamn I could rant about this for hours. How about the classic "We need you three to save the country/planet. Take anything you need, except the FN-FNC. You're not good enough."? I'll stop now, although I'm sure there's something I'm forgetting. The point is that it all comes down to retarded design choices. Or rather, good choices for retards.

Obviously, they can't have the players thinking too much or having to (the horror!) create a detailed assault plan in advance. Forcing the enemy into situations where your team outnumbers them is, of course, mostly out of the question too thankfully. Once you remove this and make the changes from the previous two paragraphs, the player needs infinite regenerating health (as well as resurrectable teammates) to get anything done. But now you can take the stairs here or rappel down there! And if you grind terrorist hunt long enough, you can unlock a wacky clown mask! Apparently it's working, as there's a post somewhere above this one admitting to play Battlefield for/due to the unlocked crap.

Pretty much the same goes for Ghost Recon vs GRAW, and in spirit, Deus Ex vs IW, even if the details don't match. I'm sorry if this post comes off bitter or angry, it's just that I am both.

Re:No No No (1)

ozphx (1061292) | more than 5 years ago | (#25273479)

So, errr, play on the difficulty levels that aren't targetted at people on console or GTFO?

You know the only realistic game I played? Operation Flashpoint. That had all the realism of walking for ten kilometers and then being the first guy in your patrol to be sniped in the head! Great fun!

Or we could play any other old FPS. Look daddy I have 10hp and no health packs! I'm going to duck behind this fence and jump and peg people for 3hp using my shitty pistol. Notice how the AI doesn't come and hunt me down! WOW IM A HARDCORE GAMER! This is classic gaming AT ITS FINEST.

Yeah, I'm pissed they took the planning out of the Rainbow Six series too... but its still one of the more immersive games I've played to date. (Bar system shock 2 - which despite its many many flaws turned out to be excellent).

Re:No No No (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25273535)

"No medkits there. And, for that matter, no regenerative health bullshit either."

It's a toss-up. Getting as far as I did in GRAW is an exercise in frustration. Take dumb AI, one-shot kill,and checkpoint saves. You waste hours getting to a point then throwing the entire thing away with one shot from someone you missed.

"To balance things out you had up to seven heavily armed doodz coming with you to take down a few dozen terrorists."

Except they were all dumber than a box of rocks. You spent more time trying to keep those "doodz" alive than getting any use out of them. The only good thing is their aim and ability to spot was better than yours.

"Obviously, they can't have the players thinking too much or having to (the horror!) create a detailed assault plan in advance. "

Sounds like you want an RTS.

Re:No No No (2, Interesting)

meringuoid (568297) | more than 5 years ago | (#25270543)

What are they thinking with Call of Duty style regenerating health? Seriously...

That the player-character is a nano-engineered cyborg superman and that automatic damage repair is the absolute first thing that UNATCO would have installed in all its agents?

Re:No No No (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25271015)

one of the augs in original game gave you also health regeneration.
Actually you can choose the way you deal with damage in original DX: you can train med packs skills or upgrade your health regeneration augmentations.

speaking of console influence (3, Funny)

babalouies (1050410) | more than 5 years ago | (#25270143)

"stealth will now rely on a cover system rather than shadows", eh?

It looks like they got my letter about adding the ubiquitous cardboard boxes as an inventory item!

Re:speaking of console influence (2, Informative)

babalouies (1050410) | more than 5 years ago | (#25270297)

...and here I thought I was kidding. An excerpt from TFA in PCZ:

"Stealth is also receiving a major revamp and will now utilise cover rather than shadow as its primary function, with a Metal Gear Solid-style cone of vision mechanic (available only through augmentation) used to ascertain an enemy's field of view."

Biomods (3, Funny)

mqduck (232646) | more than 5 years ago | (#25270145)

TFA says that DX2 will have 20 different biomods, some pretty far-out. If this is a "prequel", why didn't they exist in the "future"?

Re:Biomods (1)

Fweeky (41046) | more than 5 years ago | (#25270321)

Nano-augs were supposed to be pretty new, so they could probably explain it by saying some of the more advanced bio-mech mods just weren't ported to the new architecture.

Re:Biomods (1)

mqduck (232646) | more than 5 years ago | (#25270571)

Yes, but lots of old-fashion bioauged people were still around. And your nano-augs were a lot more powerful than those.

Re:Biomods (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25271999)

Ah, well, when you see something like that, a wizard did it.

Re:Biomods (1)

k_187 (61692) | more than 5 years ago | (#25274175)

I never played DX2, but there's a line in the first one that the technology is just now hitting the market and is therefore pretty rare. It could be that you just didn't find this stuff.

!$%* third person (4, Insightful)

Fweeky (41046) | more than 5 years ago | (#25270301)

One of the points of a FPS being first person is to add immersion; you're looking out of the protagonist's eyes, so you *are* the protagonist. Even if most of the time it's really just a floating camera, at least it's a floating camera where your eyes should be.

Now, cover systems.. fair enough. They can be done well; see, for example, GRAW. All first person, with your body actually modelled so you can see yourself, and when you enter cover you get the impression of actually.. entering cover.

But noooo, that's too hard to get right, so they're going to do what everybody else does and give you an out of body experience every time you lean against a fucking wall. None of this nonsense where entering cover is an important tactical decision because it blocks your line of sight just as much as it blocks bullets; this is a console game, so we'll make it easy and let you look around corners with magic floating vision.

And why bother spending time balancing the game when they can just give you magic regenerating health? *sigh*, they could at least make them optional augmentations, you know, like in the critically acclaimed original?

Re:!$%* third person (1)

ozphx (1061292) | more than 5 years ago | (#25270559)

Bullshit. First person cover would be fine if I could edge along a wall and peek around.

When you are stuck with a dinky control system with your eyes right on the centreline of mass, so you have to expose half your damn body to look around a corner - then it just plain sucks. The new cover systems may be pretty generous with the camera angles allowed, but that could be fixed.

If you want realistic vision and all that jazz, look at the relative unplayability of Op Flashpoint. Whats next, complaining that holding W doesnt have the intricicies of running over rough terrain, and that we need to use a joystick to balance the characters legs?

The control systems are designed to let you _naturally_ control the character. Not learn how to walk again for every game you have installed.

Re:!$%* third person (1)

Fweeky (41046) | more than 5 years ago | (#25270733)

Bullshit. First person cover would be fine if I could edge along a wall and peek around.

That's exactly what you do in GRAW. A single shot can kill you, so a usable cover system's vital, and it managed it without making your eyes pop out 8ft behind you.

If you want realistic vision and all that jazz, look at the relative unplayability of Op Flashpoint. Whats next, complaining that holding W doesnt have the intricicies of running over rough terrain, and that we need to use a joystick to balance the characters legs?

Oh please, there's plenty of space between Wolf3D style floating camera and Op Flashpoint style wobble-o-vision, there's no need to turn into Gears of War to make cover work. GRAW managed to make you aware of your body and your use of cover without smashing the fourth wall with a sledgehammer and without making the controls any more difficult than any other FPS.

Re:!$%* third person (1)

lowlymarine (1172723) | more than 5 years ago | (#25272065)

Bullshit. First person cover would be fine if I could edge along a wall and peek around.

That's exactly what you do in GRAW. A single shot can kill you, so a usable cover system's vital, and it managed it without making your eyes pop out 8ft behind you.

If you want realistic vision and all that jazz, look at the relative unplayability of Op Flashpoint. Whats next, complaining that holding W doesnt have the intricicies of running over rough terrain, and that we need to use a joystick to balance the characters legs?

Oh please, there's plenty of space between Wolf3D style floating camera and Op Flashpoint style wobble-o-vision, there's no need to turn into Gears of War to make cover work. GRAW managed to make you aware of your body and your use of cover without smashing the fourth wall with a sledgehammer and without making the controls any more difficult than any other FPS.

OK, I think you should actually play GRAW, because I don't think it works like you think it works. But I'll check to make sure.

*Turns on XBox 360.* Tumdetumdetum...loading...Yup, just as I thought. *Turns off XBox*

Yeah, so GRAW is most definitely played from a 3rd-person view, at least the first one anyways. So what precisely are you trying to say?

don't see it? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25270553)

Oh wait.
#emerge --sync

Nevermind.

Some facts (1)

pewbeng (1379329) | more than 5 years ago | (#25271877)

The PC Zone coverage of Deus Ex 3 on the Intarwebz seems to come from one source of quite sloppy scans. More information will be released as October's magazines hit the shelves. I'd take it all with a grain of salt. "We got Health Generation" could be a quote from the Deus Ex 1 jewelcase, as well. It's implementation is just not clarified further. Here are some facts from an Eidos Montréal representative named "René". RPG Deus Ex 3 is an RPG. An action/RPG like the first one (Deus Ex). FIRST PERSON OR THIRD PERSON The game is FIRST person, but automatically switches to third person for some contextual actions. You, as the player, do not have the ability to swap between views...it's a first person game but there are times where we want you to see Adam doing cool things. STORY/PLOTLINE The story and conspiracy elements are every bit a Deus Ex game. It's awesome. The writing team at EM is made up of many talented and experienced people. And did you notice the Sheldon reference...? MULTIPATH/NON LINEAR It's still based around making decisions which have consequences, selecting from a multi-path, multi-solution approach in a non-linear space (think DX1 not Invisible War), and you're able to customize your character (Adam) as well as your weapons. DX3 is an action/RPG just like the first game. When it comes to freedom, having space to search and roam in, and to run the streets and sewers, don't worry - we have that. This was just a magazine first look. That stuff will come next time. AUGMENTATION & TIMELINE Adam has mechanical augmentations. Paul and JC were the first of the nano augmented. That's why it makes sense as a Prequel...remember Anna and Gunther were mechanically augmented. And with mechanical augmentations, you will actually be able to see Adam look awesome whereas JC looked pretty normal. LOADING/LEVEL CHANGE Our tech supports streaming of data so the transition from indoors to outdoors will be seamless. FETUS IN TRAILER I don't think it's a character in the game. I think it has hidden meaning... HACKING Hacking is a major pillar of gameplay and is certainly not a mini game. (Sorry Bioshock) Hacking in Deus Ex 3 is a significant gameplay option which you can modify with augmentations if that's the way you develop your character. Our hacking is well beyond a "mini game" and is really freaking cool. CHOICE & CONSEQUENCE The social aspect of the game is extremely important. Do not fear. Choice and consequence is a major design influence. This is still a Deus Ex game. GLOBAL/LOCAL/SOCIAL ENVIRONMENT Don't worry - we know that traveling the world is one of the core values for Deus Ex... You have city hubs to explore in a non-linear fashion. There are different routes and different ways to complete an objective. The social element is huge. There are tonnes of characters to interact with and the story is massive with a global conspiracy. CHARACTER/AUGMENTATION DEVELOPMENT You do gain experience points throughout the game which you can use to either upgrade yourself or your weapons. It's a choice. There are many augmentations in the game so like the first one, you can choose how your character (Adam) develops. Source: http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=80786 [eidosgames.com]

wth is the next Legacy of Kain game? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25272369)

it's been well over 5 or 6 years since the last legacy of kain.....ummm how about we finish that series off finally?

eidos should complete their best games series finally since it's obvious they wont do another for almost 10 years.

Hope, fear, anticipation (2, Interesting)

C4Cypher (1310477) | more than 5 years ago | (#25272433)

DX3 has been a huge wildcard in my mind, simply because it offers so much promise, and as a result, even greater chance of dissapointment. DX2: Invisible War was a dissapointment because it felt like a 'dumbed down' distilled console version of the basic premese offered by Deus Ex, much as Bioshock offered a distilled version of the System Shock experience. This is not to say that Invisible War was a bad game, as I found it quite entertaining. It just didn't seem like a sequel, and it certainly didn't deliver on expectations. Deus Ex was not without it's faults, having very clunky combat mechanics, but that's not why I enjoyed playing it.

Deus Ex 3 will be hard to really get excited about until we find out how wide of a net the Dev team is casting for a playerbase. I get nervous hearing about 'shedding' more RPG elements from the DX formula, simply because it was the FPS/RPG hybrid elements that made Deus Ex (and System Shock 2) truly unique games to play.

I'm going to be taking Yatzee Crowshaw's tack on this and remain a cynic on this until I have further reason to hope. The risk of watching another beloved PC franchise ruined for the sake of the 'mainstream console gamer' is one that plays very near and dear to my heart. After having been twice dissapointed with Bioshock and Invisible War, I'm wary this time around. They're decent games, just not quite up to the bar set by the games that originally inspired them.

I was fortunate enough to interview the developers (1)

Digitus1337 (671442) | more than 5 years ago | (#25273581)

of the first two games just prior to the release of DX2. 3DActionPlanet was trying a new interview thing [3dactionplanet.com] , in which we interviewed game characters by sending questions to their writers and project directors. The second game was disappointing, because of the pandering to console gamers. From what I've read of TFA, they're promising to try the same kind of a thing again. The problem is that developers are being pressured to make games that work on a variety of different platforms. These games are limited by the number of buttons, the lack of a mouse, small level sizes, and the (assumed, rightly or wrongly) lack of intellect of the player base. I'll buy the game, but as far as more Deus Ex fun, it looks like I'm going to have to settle with being content with being the only person to interview JC Denton.

Paradox? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25274429)

The cover game? Deus Ex 3 - the long-awaited return of the world's favourite nano-augmented RPG-shooter.

Awaited by who? Anyone that bought and enjoyed the original dreads every attempt they make at sucking money out of the franchise.

Why is it when they clone bad games they're practically identical but they cant copy a good game without ruining everything that made it good, interesting or different. Are they just incapable of making a good game?

Extra areas (1)

shish (588640) | more than 5 years ago | (#25274647)

Somewhat on a tangent, but thinking back to why I liked the first so much, one of the things that comes to mind is the number of completely optional areas, each of which has just as much detail as the necessary parts. Things like the MJ12 base in the sewers, the flooded tunnel, the prototype AI...

My other favourite game, FFVII, was very similar -- you could reach the credits in under 20 hours, but even after playing for so long that the in-game timer ran out of digits, I was still finding new bits.

I wonder if this is actually a secret to making an awesome game? If you have an optional huge, high quality stealth bit, an optional puzzle bit, an optional run & gun bit, optional snippets of background story all over the place, etc; people will pick & mix and "complete" the game while actually only having played the 20% of the content which particularly appeals to them~

We can rebuild it - we have the technology! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25275233)

I wonder if the Real secret to making games like DX1 in the future will be for them to be created by non-profit game companies?

There are already some older games, like the Star Fleet Command series, that are now held in trust to be run by the fans in Non Profit org's.

I think this model has an awesome potential - with freshmen game developers perhaps donating their time to (and building rep's with) groups like these - instead of working on over-ambitious mods like Black Mesa which never quite make it to fruition before the team is all hired away by Mega Corps like EA.

Halflife 2: Ep 1 (1)

Anxarcule (884937) | more than 5 years ago | (#25275345)

I was a huge Deus Ex fan and played through it repeatedly like many of you. Recently I picked up Half-Life 2 Episode 1 (from the Orange Box package from Valve) and started playing it, and I was reminded of Deus Ex. It is a little heavier on action-based gameplay and puzzles, but it does sort of follow the Action RPG model in the sense that you're not just mindlessly blasting away at things. There's a real story going on there with NPCs to talk to, etc.

Plus there are some cool weapons, and you've got the whole ammo conservation thing going on throughout the game. And the graphics are much better than Deus Ex of course.

I'd recommend it for any of you Deus Ex lovers who are looking for a new game.

On Steam? No way. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25275763)

If I get my money back when I've had enough of it (after all, they've gotten use of my money and they can resell the game themselves too, so why not give me my money back?) then I'll consider it.

But while they pretend to sell it I'll pretend to buy it.

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