×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Maryland Police Put Activists' Names On Terror List

timothy posted more than 5 years ago | from the bad-incentive-to-remain-peaceful dept.

Privacy 426

aaandre writes with word of a Washington Post story which begins: "The Maryland State Police classified 53 nonviolent activists as terrorists and entered their names and personal information into state and federal databases that track terrorism suspects, the state police chief acknowledged yesterday. The police also entered the activists' names into the federal Washington-Baltimore High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area database, which tracks suspected terrorists. One well-known antiwar activist from Baltimore, Max Obuszewski, was singled out in the intelligence logs released by the ACLU, which described a 'primary crime' of 'terrorism-anti-government' and a 'secondary crime' of 'terrorism-anti-war protesters.'" According to the article, "Both [former state police superintendent Thomas] Hutchins and [Maryland Police Superintendent Terrence] Sheridan said the activists' names were entered into the state police database as terrorists partly because the software offered limited options for classifying entries." Reader kcurtis adds "The State Police say they are purging the data, but this is one more example (on top of yesterday's news that datamining for terrorists is not feasible due to false positives) of just how badly the use of these lists can be abused."

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

426 comments

In Soviet-America... (5, Insightful)

erroneus (253617) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306101)

...those jokes are getting less and less funny.

That's all I have to say about that.

Re:In Soviet-America... (5, Informative)

megamerican (1073936) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306223)

This isn't new to America by any means. The only new part about it is that we learn about it quicker.

In the 1950's, J Edgar Hoover wanted to arrest over suspected of being disloyal. [nytimes.com]

Lincoln suspended habeus corpus (later to be found that it was done unconstitutionally) and arrested 1000's of newspaper writers, editors, political dissidents and even 2 congressmen.

Re:In Soviet-America... (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25306589)

Lincoln was the only President worse than Bush.

Re:In Soviet-America... (1)

sexconker (1179573) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306679)

Problem is Lincoln did good things, and revisionist history reeks, at best.

In every country ... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25306989)

Unfortunately most people fail to see the connection between lists and any danger. The lists are being made to influence people who speaking out against the ones in power. But most people fail to see the danger of giving the power seekers ever more data to mine on everyone. Knowledge is power and the ones in power seek the use that knowledge to prevent people standing against their point of view.

With ever more detailed lists on peoples views, soon we end up with people fearful of what they say on the phone and in emails, for fear of their views could even just risk being taken out of context and in any way critical of the people in power. At that point, the ones in power are influencing people directly.

At that point, we live in a police state, where freedom is gone and replaced by fear of the ones in power. Problem is, we are getting there now, and from here on out, its simply a matter of consolidation of ever more detailed data mining.

The central reason why centuries ago votes were made in secret, was to prevent the ones in power, from seeking to influence the voters. Yet the power seekers are forever seeking to game the system to gain ever more information on peoples opinions. Now the ones in power are building automated systems to influence people.

Throughout history its been shown time and time again that the ones in power become ever more corrupt over time without any feedback on how they are behaving. Its been show so many times through history.

Most people don't realise the the game people in power are playing. People in power are not so interested in individuals. The ones in power are interested in adding everyone to different lists so they can then control and profiling groups of people, so they can then use divide and conquer tactics, to break groups of people up. The goal is that the fragmented groups cannot then stand and oppose the point of view of the ones in power. That is why they data mine.

The lessons of history have not been learned by enough people. Looks like the world is seeking to repeat the mistakes of the past. Freedom and democracy are constantly undermined by a minority of people in power for their own gain. Its just a matter of time and how far we are going to let them all game the system to push the excesses ever more unfairly in their favour. After all, its not as if they are robbing hundreds of billions of tax payers money to keep their rich lifestyles while millions risk loosing everything.

Anyway, if the millions of people can't buy bread, then let them eat cake. ... My point is, the names in history change and the names of their ideologies change. But what remains is basic human psychology and that doesn't change. The lack of empathy of the ones in power over their powerless minions never changes. For all their words, its only their actions which count and millions now face loosing their jobs and millions are treated unfairly by the ones in power.

In such a world, its no surprise that the ones in power would want to watch their minions very closely. After all, people could start to complain its getting all to unfair. But we cannot have that. We need ever more laws to protect the ones in power and ever more laws to keep the minions down and away from power.

The world will never change until everyone worldwide realises that people who constantly seek power over others have a recognisable cluster B personality disorder. All cluster B personality disorders are ultimately driven by fear. And the ones with the disorder constantly seek to control that fear and control everyone around them based on their fear. (There are multiple fears, two examples are lack of attention and the other is fear of lack of power. The attention seekers want more attention (they were deprived of parental attention as children. The ones who want power seek to prevent anyone ever having power over them again, the way they were treated unfairly as children).

These are not the kinds of people who should have power over anyone. They need help not power, but yet they constantly seek to gain attention and power over people and people just let them, as they fail to see the game the ones in power are playing.

Knowledge is power ... so ever more lists are going to be made.

Re:In Soviet-America... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25306707)

Don't forget the Palmer Raids [wikipedia.org] and other actions during the first Red Scare, responsible for utterly destroying the socialist movement in the United States.

Re:In Soviet-America... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25306997)

Anyone find out how those 800 FBI files ended up in Hilary's office?

In Soviet-America... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25306337)

Government terrors YOU!

Re:In Soviet-America... (4, Interesting)

geogob (569250) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306663)

Yes. I doubt any of them laughs when they get turned away from the check-in counter next time they which to take an flight to somewhere. "Sorry sir, you are on a terrorist watch list. You can't fly with us today. Next!..."

The real joke nowadays, is freedom.

Fascism (5, Insightful)

YA_Python_dev (885173) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306667)

Let's not beat around the bush: this is not an isolated error, this is only the tip of the iceberg.

If you disagree with the government you are an enemy of the state and it's the police that will deal with you. There's a name for this ideology: fascism.

Re:In Nazi/Communist/Dictator state of America... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25306913)

Not funny.
I think Osama Bin Laden and his Al Queda friends are not attacking us now is because we are screwing ourselves better than they can.
I think Osama Bin Laden is laughing on his hilltop compound and saying:
"We can start this and the stupid American will end it themselves. Those American fools are going kill themselves faster than we can. After they kill themselves we can take the spoils."

Unfortunately we are Osama Bin Laden him right.

Check yourself, (5, Interesting)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306103)

This isn't new. The government's sneaky voyeurs have pulled this shit time and time again against nonviolent "subversives".

The thing which scares me more is the CLETS [calstate.edu].

CLETS is basically a law-enforcement database which compiles info on people regardless of charge or conviction. I found out about it after my buddy interviewed well for a prison job only to be called at the last minute -- he was denied employment(even after having passed the DOJ LiveScan [usafingerprinting.com]) because of a petty theft charge of which he was never convicted. Doing more research, we found that basically any cop can write anything about you that they want whether or not you were charged or convicted. It's a sneaky way to criminalize somebody without actually going through the legal motions.

It's been awhile since I checked it out, but from what I recall it had something to do with www.leo.gov [leo.gov] and its "public inquiry" phone number led to a place in West Virginia!

I wasn't able to find all the details(who may access the database etc.) but I suggest that you Californians follow the yellow brick road and hopefully discover what the good ol' boys think about you, before it bites you in the ass someday. Happy hunting.

Re:Check yourself, (2, Funny)

argent (18001) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306207)

Maybe they didn't have a category for "not guilty" in their database?

Re:Check yourself, (3, Interesting)

davester666 (731373) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306535)

They don't even have a field that this could go into. It's just a generic database of people who have been in contact with the police and why.

Now, it's shocking, shocking I say, that it would be misused (used?) in this way.

And it does seem stupid to me to enter "terrorists" into a database of drug traffickers. While there is a small amount of overlap between the two groups, this smacks of a "hmm, where can we put this information on terrorists. Well sir, we have the database of drug traffickers. We could just put it in there, until we can create a separate database for terrorists." And then forgetting about the "creating a separate database" part...

Re:Check yourself, (1)

Ortega-Starfire (930563) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306465)

>I suggest that you Californians follow the yellow brick road and hopefully discover what the good ol' boys think about you, before it bites you in the ass someday. Happy hunting.

How do you expect the Californians to hunt, when you take away all their guns?

Don't worry, Mr. Anderson. We'll take care of you. We're from the government!

Re:Check yourself, (3, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306585)

It's a sneaky way to criminalize somebody without actually going through the legal motions.

It's just a fact that getting into trouble with the police can screw you over without charge or conviction. If your family, neighbours and job see the police search your home and workplace or the media blast your name all over without ever reaching a conviction, that would probably do a lot of damage to you even if you're innocent. I've not heard of it being kept on record and used against you permanently like that, but it's not the first job anyone's lost...

Re:Check yourself, (4, Informative)

Drathos (1092) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306749)

Paranoid much?

CLETS is just another state law enforcement messaging system - not a single database. I'm pretty sure every state has one and they talk to each other via NLETS (National Law Enforcement Telecommunications System). Nothing new. NLETS itself has been around in various forms since the 60s and several of the state systems originated before that.

I've worked on these in several states. They let authorized agencies run queries to *specific* databases (DMV, Sex Offender lists, Wants/Warrants, Stolen Vehicles, Criminal History Records, etc.). Usually each one of these is run by a different agency which is connected to the state system. Most of the traffic I've seen over the years is Drivers License and Vehicle Registration inquiries (two completely separate inquiries) resulting from someone getting pulled over.

A cop being able to "write anything about you" means that whatever state/local agency is running the system that data gets put in isn't properly auditing their system. Something that actually pisses off the Feds.

In the states I've worked in, a person's access is limited based on their role and what they've been certified for. Your average cop wouldn't be able to enter or modify data, just query it, and even there they normally wouldn't be able to query all systems. A highway patrol officer, for example, would most likely only be able to query DMV, Wants/Warrants, and Stolen Vehicles - and that's assuming they have the ability to access it themselves instead of having to call it in to a dispatcher.

The West Virginia number is most likely at the FBI's NCIC.

It's NOT the DATA MINING (2, Insightful)

deweycheetham (1124655) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306119)

Having personally used Multiple Data Mining techniques for several years now - It's not that Data Mining doesn't work, rather it's how its used. Data Mining is great at trend forecasting and if you're really good at what you're doing in it you can factor in probabilities of certain future events. The one key factor in data mining is a "Training Set" of Data to teach the machine(s) how to recognize the patterns. Since I suspect Terrorist come from every walk of life, every know nationality, and are using 1 off events this is throwing them a few headaches. The real key is to of course define what is normal, but if the rest of the world is as normal as are we here in the US they don't have a chance to pin point the Target Data (in this case people).

I would also suspect that the Terrorist Motives might be a key factor, but it's like pulling teeth to get any US Administration to admit that their foreign policy is screw up beyond belief, let alone something like a cruddy foreign policy might just result in cruddy foreign relations or popular uprisings around the world. If they did, then we wouldn't need data mining in the first place.

"May You - Live Long and Prosper in Interesting Times" -- by deweycheetham

Re:It's NOT the DATA MINING (2, Insightful)

orclevegam (940336) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306323)

In other words it's great for making statistical predictions based on historic data, but sucks at spotting small variations in a largely randomized data pool. Gee, who would have thought.

On the topic of TFA, is it just me or did they basically say the equivalent of "We didn't have an option for 'we hate this guy because he disagrees with us, he should be harassed' so instead they picked 'terrorist'"?

Re:It's NOT the DATA MINING (1)

marcello_dl (667940) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306393)

So, putting dissident activists together with terrorists kinda screws up the data mining efforts.

Given the amount of arbitrary power that governments award themselves in the name of national security, I would not be suprised if malice > stupidity in this case.

Re:It's NOT the DATA MINING (1)

Free the Cowards (1280296) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306505)

No, it is that data mining doesn't work, against this particular problem. That's because data mining works for, as you say, trends and probabilities. But terrorists are individual events, making up something under one millionth of the population, and data mining simply can't see that kind of thing.

Re:It's NOT the DATA MINING (1)

postbigbang (761081) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306775)

Garbage in, garbage out and denial at the ticket counter because you exercise your right to free association, assembly, and rights to speech and dissent.

No real suspects | job justification (1)

utahraptor (703433) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306133)

Tax payers do not like funding divisions that are not absolutely required thus we are not creating the need when none exists.

Re:No real suspects | job justification (1)

arstchnca (887141) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306277)

I don't know what country you live in but here in the US i fund the pentagon PLENTY. I guess you're right though, I do not like funding it.

All these lists are insane (5, Insightful)

Free the Cowards (1280296) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306141)

If they've done something illegal, then arrest and prosecute them. If they haven't, then they should be free to go about their lives.

All innocent people should be equal in the eyes of the law.

Re:All these lists are insane (5, Funny)

Stanislav_J (947290) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306241)

All innocent people should be equal in the eyes of the law.

But some are more equal than others.....

Sincerely,
Mr. G. Orwell

Re:All these lists are insane (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25306247)

... and as a non-american, I wonder how come (esp after 8 years of Bush/Cheney) McCaine is still in the race.

And I am not saying this as endorsement to the Democrats, but by default, any other major opposition to McCaine should have won the election by now. Just 8% lead? This probably will explain why such lists exist and abused.

Re:All these lists are insane (5, Insightful)

erroneus (253617) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306345)

There is a sickening amount of "cowboy" and "U.S. is #1" mentality out here. These same people think we still wear the "white hat" in all of this and that everyone else is just wrong.

There are a variety of reasons Republicans should lose by a wide margin... but those same reasons also apply to Democrats.

We need something better... more closely resembling the original plan of government for the U.S.

Re:All these lists are insane (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25306687)

Vote Libertarian

Re:All these lists are insane (2, Interesting)

BlackSnake112 (912158) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306849)

I so wish there were term limits for all government offices. In for two terms then you HAVE to be out for one term. You can run again and if you win, be in for two more terms before having to be out again. They have to win each term. If this was done maybe there would be politicians who would listen to the people they are supposed to be representing in office.

Then again, those same politicians would have to vote for this idea.... which they would never do. (sigh)

Re:All these lists are insane (1)

Ichijo (607641) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306971)

We need something better... more closely resembling the original plan of government for the U.S.

The one where the states are autonomous? Lincoln put an end to that idea.

Re:All these lists are insane (4, Insightful)

orclevegam (940336) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306403)

... and as a non-american, I wonder how come (esp after 8 years of Bush/Cheney) McCaine is still in the race. And I am not saying this as endorsement to the Democrats, but by default, any other major opposition to McCaine should have won the election by now. Just 8% lead? This probably will explain why such lists exist and abused.

First, you can't judge anything by the statistics put out so far. Looking at the trend graphs exactly who is in the lead at any given time depends on when you ask, and which source of data you use. Mostly it comes down to how the pick the people to poll.

Second, McCaine is still in the running for a variety of reasons. To start with, he claims to represent a government reform and responsibility platform. Whether he'll follow through on it, or if it really is as he presents it (instead of say a way to make life difficult for politicians and organizations he doesn't like) is yet to be seen. He also, like it or not, has a better foreign relations policy (at least as of right now) at least from an economic standpoint, something many Americans are particularly worried about right now. There's also the (unfortunately) strong right wing Christian contingent that will vote for him because they perceive him (and his young earth creationist running mate) as strongly supporting the Christian church (whichever one that happens to be). Lastly there are a depressingly large number of people that are just plain racist and will vote for him for no other reason than the opposition is a black man.

Re:All these lists are insane (1)

Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306713)

Its McCain. No trailing e. Any other republican would be down by double digits. McCain is widely hated with in his own party. He does stuff they don't like, doesn't keep his mouth shut when they want him to. He was also a victim to many nasty tricks at the hands of Bush during the 2000 primary. This is why tying him to Bush is part of the Obama strategy, because there is doubt in many peoples mind that they would pursue a similar strategy. In short its a thousand times more complex then what you and many others think. You'd sort of have to live here to understand the different points of view and why they think the way they do.

Re:All these lists are insane (1)

Darby (84953) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306995)

He was also a victim to many nasty tricks at the hands of Bush during the 2000 primary. This is why tying him to Bush is part of the Obama strategy, because there is doubt in many peoples mind that they would pursue a similar strategy.

No, that's not why "it's part of Obama's campaign strategy". The fact that McCane bent over and spent the next 8 years licking Bush's boots and agreeing with him on almost everything including torture (after a half ass and deeply cowardly act of being against it for a minute) is how everybody with any sense at all *knows* that MCCane will just be the next Bush who was just the next Reagan. Same shitty policies, same shitty results. Some people never learn though.

In short its a thousand times more complex then what you and many others think. You'd sort of have to live here to understand the different points of view and why they think the way they do.

No, it's really not at all more complex. People make up all sorts of delusional nonsense so they can tell themselves they aren't being stupid. It just means they're good at fooling themselves, not that they aren't being stupid.

There is no legitimate doubt that a McCane administration would be merely a continuation of failed policies. That's what people who vote along party lines cause to be fact. There is no reasonable doubt. Just look at who he picked for his running mate. A vacuous idiot who is the governor of Alaska, the queen of the welfare states, and a greedy little piggy who begged for the bridge to nowhere and then bald facedly lied about a matter of the public record. That demonstrates complete contempt for the American citizens. Yeah, there's really some doubt for a sane person there.

Re:All these lists are insane (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25306731)

This map [encycloped...matica.com] pretty much sums it up.

Re:All these lists are insane (2, Insightful)

sexconker (1179573) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306743)

McCain will lose. It was over the instant he picked Palin.

But to suggest democrats will be nicer and ensure your freedoms or anything of that nature is ridiculous.

I registered to vote recently - my political party is officially "Teh LOL Cats". Invisible Candidate '08!

Re:All these lists are insane (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25306819)

> And I am not saying this as endorsement to the Democrats, but by default, any other major opposition to McCain should have won the election by now. Just 8% lead? This probably will explain why such lists exist and abused.

Obama is currently projected to win an electoral landslide. US Presidential elections are almost always close, in part due to party loyalists. An 8% lead in the popular vote becomes absolutely staggering when you see how many states he'll win.

Let's put it this way: even Texas shows as "weakly Republican" and it should be completely, absolutely, unquestionably in the Republican column in any normal year.

Re:All these lists are insane (1)

Drathos (1092) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306899)

One of the major problems with US elections is that there's a large portion of the population who don't care who's running or what they're saying, just which party they're running for. When I lived in Leon County, Florida, people didn't even run as Republican for a lot of local tickets because the population was so heavily Democrat. To make it even more depressing, several people (even random people I'd meet at some random event) explained to me that it was "because Lincoln was Republican." ... WTF?!

Re:All these lists are insane (5, Informative)

idontgno (624372) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306377)

"Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers - and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."

--Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

Re:All these lists are insane (0, Troll)

Free the Cowards (1280296) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306487)

No offense, but what's the point of posting a long quote and adding absolutely none of your own words? If I wanted to read Rand, I'd get one of her books.

Re:All these lists are insane (1)

Haoie (1277294) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306661)

Especially the No Fly List, I'll add.

It's like if you have a funny looking name, they'll boot you off the plane.

Re:All these lists are insane (5, Interesting)

plover (150551) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306665)

If they've done something illegal, then arrest and prosecute them. If they haven't, then they should be free to go about their lives.

You're absolutely right. Hutchins and Sheridan should be arrested and prosecuted for slander, making defamatory statements, and abridging the civil rights of the 53 people they falsely accused of a truly heinous crime. And they should certainly be given a fair trial, and if found innocent their records should be cleaned and they should be free to go about their lives.

But saying stuff like "the activists' names were entered into the state police database as terrorists partly because the software offered limited options for classifying entries" should be very compelling evidence of making the false accusation in the first place. Trying to fix it later should be strong evidence that the suspects knew what they had done was wrong, and therefore had malice aforethought. There was no good faith here. This was an outright criminal act designed to deny 53 people their rights as citizens.

I'd say those 53 defendants have a pretty solid case on their hands.

Re:All these lists are insane (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25306741)

Illegal? Who controls the police, controls the list, controls the law. So fuck you I don't like your idea any better.

Re:All these lists are insane (1)

Gonoff (88518) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306887)

Does that apply to all those people in Gitmo? I understand that no evidence of wrongdoing has been offered against them too...

New edition will also offer . . . (5, Insightful)

StefanJ (88986) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306147)

. . . the "Thoughtcrime" classification.

Who made this software? Someone who watches their "24" DVD set over and over?

Re:New edition will also offer . . . (1)

arstchnca (887141) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306303)

Hey don't disparage the Anti Terrorism Training Manual we find it very informative.

terrorism-whatever (5, Insightful)

clarkkent09 (1104833) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306199)

So the classification options in the database were 'terrorism-anti-government' and 'terrorism-anti-war protesters' and they couldn't find any other that would fit? Did someone just go through all the options and stick terrorism- prefix to them. Are there terrorism-music-piracy, terrorism-illegal-parking etc. I guess if everybody is a terrorist it's easier to catch one.

Re:terrorism-whatever (5, Insightful)

Daniel Dvorkin (106857) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306327)

The fact that the "terrorism-anti-war protesters" category even exists should be a gigantic red flag that something is seriously wrong with whoever set up the system in the first place.

What about this classification... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25306435)

terrorism-rogue-law-enforcement-officers.

Methinks it should now have quite a few entries added.

Re:terrorism-whatever (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25306903)

I can believe this. I'm forced to use a Japanese-designed, diabolical web-application designed for process management, some of which is for software defect tracking. Part of it's software defect tracking is a questionnaire in which every single mandatory answer is a multiple-choice of incomprehensible and/or inapplicable options. Many of the options are only shown in Japanese.

I can see how users just do what they have to do to make the damn system go away and let them get on with their job. It's one thing when it screws up some pointless software statistics, it's another when it screws up someone's life.

Non-violent? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25306243)

Are you sure they are non-violent? Like those activists we saw in the streets during the Republican convention?

Re:Non-violent? (3, Informative)

spun (1352) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306395)

You mean the ones that were actually government agents, paid to disrupt lawful protest? We did it in the sixties and seventies with COINTELPRO, [wikipedia.org] why would anyone think we're not doing it now?

Terrorists? (4, Insightful)

maz2331 (1104901) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306253)

They sure don't seem to be terrorists from what anyone has presented. Everyone has the right to be a left-wing, right-wing, religious, gay, slashdot, anti-slashdot, or whatever other type of wingnut they want. So long as they are peaceful about it, that is.

Perhaps the "limited options" were there for a reason - those were the only valid reasons for entry in the first place. Anyone who didn't match probably shouldn't have been entered in the first place.

Being politically active is not terrorism. Terrorism is violence with the aim of influencing public behavior in such a way as to subvert either the popular will or to force a government to give concessions to the group in question.

These lists could be a really useful tool for stopping stupid asshats who are planning attacks, but that utility is lost if they are full of garbage data. From many descriptions, they are becoming about as good as randomly flipping through a phone book.

Purging the garbage is an excellent idea, both to protect innocent people's rights and to make the lists themselves a useful resource.

Re:Terrorists? (2, Interesting)

Gat0r30y (957941) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306545)

These lists could be a really useful tool for stopping stupid asshats who are planning attacks

The idea of lists like these is not to stop stupid asshats who are planning attacks. They are intended to induce fear in the public. Fear of the government. If people are afraid to publicly protest the stupid shit their government does - well then it is a lot easier for government to get away with whatever they want.
Additionally, in order to justify taking away everyone's rights - just about everyone is going to have to be a "terrorist".

Terrorism is violence with the aim of influencing public behavior in such a way as to subvert either the popular will or to force a government to give concessions to the group in question.

By the way - the goal nor the means of terrorism is political in any way. It is a social framework. Even if given all the "political" concessions they want, they aren't going to stop - because ultimately they are generally just taking young men who can't find a job - blaming their failure on a political entity and giving them an ideology (usually religious) to cement them into their particular social group. The social group is going to continue with or without the political aims. Which is why the only real way to defeat terrorism is to make it much more profitable socially as well as financially for these people to join a different social group - preferably one which prefers not to blow people up. Ok, /rant

Re:Terrorists? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25306573)

Everyone has the right to be a left-wing, right-wing, religious, gay, slashdot, anti-slashdot, or whatever other type of wingnut they want.

Except for religion. Religion and extreme stupidity should be capital offences.

Guilty until proven innocent? (1)

IronMagnus (777535) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306265)

"...names were entered into the state police database as terrorists partly because the software offered limited options for classifying entries."

So much for guilty until proven innocent. If the correct classification doesn't exist, then don't enter in the name until one does. You wouldn't put their names in as murderers or child pornographers. They are not terrorists, don't call them such.

Re:Guilty until proven innocent? (1)

_Sprocket_ (42527) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306561)

So much for guilty until proven innocent. If the correct classification doesn't exist, then don't enter in the name until one does. You wouldn't put their names in as murderers or child pornographers. They are not terrorists, don't call them such.

You're confusing the role of cop and judge. The courts hash out the whole proof of guilt thing. The cop is focused on justice. They're not always the same thing.

This is why, as a general rule, one should not trust anyone in a policing role (at least until you have a REAL good idea how they work). I've seen bureaucrats and FBI agents come up with some rather elaborate scenarios to describe a perpetrator. And while these scenarios aren't always completely without merrit, they tend to be an extreme interpretation (imho) when additional understanding of the situation would imply a different scenario is more likely (the assessment of David Lightman in Wargames strikes a chord with reality).

I'm inclined to say that the people who do these things are not particularly evil. They have good intentions. But of course, we know where that leads. And they ultimately fail their professional duties in paving that road.

Re:Guilty until proven innocent? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25306623)

Agreed.
Maybe there are limited options because the government doesn't want to track non-terrorists? (duh)

(not that I support the tracking of people who haven't broken any laws and have no warrants for their arrest)

Why can't we arrest them? (2, Interesting)

Khyber (864651) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306285)

When can we arrest the police for falsely labeling us as terrorists?

How about huge personal lawsuits?

Re:Why can't we arrest them? (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306981)

you can.

It's called exercising the 2nd amendment. The cops are far less asshole-ish when they have a lot of guns pointed back at them. Problem is it takes a LOT of guns to be pointed back at the police to arrest them and their corrupt leaders.

"fringe people" (1)

Daniel Dvorkin (106857) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306301)

That pretty much says it all, doesn't it? The security-state mindset doesn't care what your actual politics are. It cares what kind of person you are. You're either a Good God-Fearing Christian American, in which case everything you do is Good and Right and Just, or you're an Evil America-Hating /C/om/m/u/n/i/s/t/ Terrorist Sympathizer ("fringe person" for short) in which case everything you do is Wrong and must be Punished. And whatever the GGFCA's do to protect themselves from the EAH/C/TS's is by definition The Right Thing To Do, while any complaints the EAH/C/TS's make about their so-called "rights" can safely be disregarded, because, never forget, They Hate America.

Gaptoothed, inbred, shaven-headed, jug-eared moron (-1, Troll)

Paracelcus (151056) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306373)

Chanting U S A, U S A, U S A, at a McCain/Snowbilly rally.

Ah red about you commnewnists an ah tink dat you shood be cent too kwanzatamo bay wif all d over terrorists!

Needs a refresher 'civics' course. (5, Insightful)

argent (18001) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306391)

"I don't believe the First Amendment is any guarantee to those who wish to disrupt the government," [Hutchins] said.

I'm boggled.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

That means, you get to watch them and make sure they're not storming the prison. That doesn't mean you get to disrupt their activities by putting them on terrorist watch lists because you're part of the grievances they're protesting about.

Re:Needs a refresher 'civics' course. (1)

plover (150551) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306715)

"I don't believe the First Amendment is any guarantee to those who wish to disrupt the government," [Hutchins] said.

I'm boggled.

That one absolutely floored me, too. That such an anti-American person is in a position of power shows the system is truly broken. Even so, I would not label Hutchins with a "Terrorism-anti-American-statements" choice. A simple "Anti-American-statements" label would be much more accurate.

Chicken Maryland... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25306401)

...Yummy! You're making me hungry.

If Google Were Doing It (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25306437)

I work for a state agency that works with data quite a bit. If the people working there can enter data correctly 60% of the time I would be amazed. This is generally do to poor validation and apathetic workers. Then, the data is "mined" in either inappropriate or unintended ways. This information is handed up the food chain for decisions by people who have no clue about the nuances of the data, or even main concepts regarding it. All of a sudden, data mining doesn't work.

My main point here is to caution that just because an implementation of something is horribly flawed doesn't mean it is also flawed in theory. Data mining can be extremely helpful if done correctly. However, when a system doesn't allow a user to differentiate between a terrorist and a protester I would have some serious concerns about the abilities of the people running that operation.

Re:If Google Were Doing It (2, Insightful)

plover (150551) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306867)

Data mining is great for providing statistical answers to questions. But the statistics can only be used for "inductive reasoning". The conclusion is not a fact, it's only a probability. "Joe learned how to make bombs in the army", "Joe is in an anti-war group", "Mary does not know how to make bombs", does not yield "Joe is an anti-war terrorist." It might yield "Joe has more potential to be an anti-war terrorist than Mary does."

Now, if there are more facts and premises, such as "People who plant bombs are terrorists" and "Joe was convicted for planting a bomb in an Army Recruiting Center", then you can deduce that Joe is a terrorist. But you still cannot deduce that "the anti-war group is a terrorist organization" unless you include a the premise that "an organization that has a terrorist as a member is a terrorist organization." And that premise may or may not be valid.

no terrorist list would be complete... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25306447)

without the names of those who are causing the most terror & destruction worldwide at this time. &, they know who you are, & they've given themselves the power to eliminate anyone they perceive as a threat to their agenda. greed, fear & ego are unprecedented evile's primary weapons. those, along with deception & coercion, helps most of us remain (unwittingly?) dependent on its' life0cidal hired goons' agenda. most of yOUR dwindling resources are being squandered on the 'wars', & continuation of the billionerrors stock markup FraUD/pyramid schemes. nobody ever mentions the real long term costs of those debacles in both life & any notion of prosperity for us, or our children, not to mention the abuse of the consciences of those of us who still have one. see you on the other side of it. the lights are coming up all over now. conspiracy theorists are being vindicated. some might choose a tin umbrella to go with their hats. the fairytail is winding down now. let your conscience be yOUR guide. you can be more helpful than you might have imagined. there are still some choices. if they do not suit you, consider the likely results of continuing to follow the corepirate nazi hypenosys story LIEn, whereas anything of relevance is replaced almost instantly with pr ?firm? scriptdead mindphuking propaganda or 'celebrity' trivia 'foam'. meanwhile; don't forget to get a little more oxygen on yOUR brain, & look up in the sky from time to time, starting early in the day. there's lots going on up there.

http://news.google.com/?ncl=1216734813&hl=en&topic=n
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/31/opinion/31mon1.html?em&ex=1199336400&en=c4b5414371631707&ei=5087%0A
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080918/ap_on_re_us/tent_cities;_ylt=A0wNcyS6yNJIZBoBSxKs0NUE
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/29/world/29amnesty.html?hp
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/02/nasa.global.warming.ap/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/weather/06/05/severe.weather.ap/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/weather/06/02/honore.preparedness/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/09/28/what.matters.meltdown/index.html#cnnSTCText
http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/books/10/07/atwood.debt/index.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/01/opinion/01dowd.html?em&ex=1212638400&en=744b7cebc86723e5&ei=5087%0A
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/05/senate.iraq/index.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/17/washington/17contractor.html?hp
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/03/world/middleeast/03kurdistan.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080708/cheney_climate.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080805/pl_politico/12308;_ylt=A0wNcxTPdJhILAYAVQms0NUE
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/18/voting.problems/index.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080903/ts_nm/environment_arctic_dc;_ylt=A0wNcwhhcb5It3EBoy2s0NUE
(talk about cowardlly race fixing/bad theater/fiction?) http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/19/news/economy/sec_short_selling/index.htm?cnn=yes
http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=ApTbxRfLnscxaGGuCocWlwq7YWsA/SIG=11qicue6l/**http%3A//biz.yahoo.com/ap/081006/meltdown_kashkari.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/opinion/04sat1.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
(the teaching of hate as a way of 'life' synonymous with failed dictatorships) http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081004/ap_on_re_us/newspapers_islam_dvd;_ylt=A0wNcwWdfudITHkACAus0NUE
(some yoga & yogurt makes killing/getting killed less stressful) http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081007/ap_on_re_us/warrior_mind;_ylt=A0wNcw9iXutIPkMBwzGs0NUE

is it time to get real yet? A LOT of energy is being squandered in attempts to keep US in the dark. in the end (give or take a few 1000 years), the creators will prevail (world without end, etc...), as it has always been. the process of gaining yOUR release from the current hostage situation may not be what you might think it is. butt of course, most of US don't know, or care what a precarious/fatal situation we're in. for example; the insidious attempts by the felonious corepirate nazi execrable to block the suns' light, interfering with a requirement (sunlight) for us to stay healthy/alive. it's likely not good for yOUR health/memories 'else they'd be bragging about it? we're intending for the whoreabully deceptive (they'll do ANYTHING for a bit more monIE/power) felons to give up/fail even further, in attempting to control the 'weather', as well as a # of other things/events.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=weather+manipulation&btnG=Search
http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=video+cloud+spraying

'The current rate of extinction is around 10 to 100 times the usual background level, and has been elevated above the background level since the Pleistocene. The current extinction rate is more rapid than in any other extinction event in earth history, and 50% of species could be extinct by the end of this century. While the role of humans is unclear in the longer-term extinction pattern, it is clear that factors such as deforestation, habitat destruction, hunting, the introduction of non-native species, pollution and climate change have reduced biodiversity profoundly.' (wiki)

"I think the bottom line is, what kind of a world do you want to leave for your children," Andrew Smith, a professor in the Arizona State University School of Life Sciences, said in a telephone interview. "How impoverished we would be if we lost 25 percent of the world's mammals," said Smith, one of more than 100 co-authors of the report. "Within our lifetime hundreds of species could be lost as a result of our own actions, a frightening sign of what is happening to the ecosystems where they live," added Julia Marton-Lefevre, IUCN director general. "We must now set clear targets for the future to reverse this trend to ensure that our enduring legacy is not to wipe out many of our closest relatives."
consult with/trust in yOUR creators. providing more than enough of everything for everyone (without any distracting/spiritdead personal gain motives), whilst badtolling unprecedented evile, using an unlimited supply of newclear power, since/until forever. see you there?

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."

if $citizen law breaker then $crime == terror (4, Insightful)

spyrochaete (707033) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306453)

Both [former state police superintendent Thomas] Hutchins and [Maryland Police Superintendent Terrence] Sheridan said the activists' names were entered into the state police database as terrorists partly because the software offered limited options for classifying entries.

So what kind of terrorist did they hope to classify them as?

Makes sense. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25306477)

They aren't anti-war. They are pro-war, just for the enemy.

A slippery slope... (5, Insightful)

Essellion (669297) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306509)

Hutchins said: "I don't believe the First Amendment is any guarantee to those who wish to disrupt the government,"

So, if I decide to vote against the incumbents in political office I forfeit my first amendment rights? Or is it only if I discuss doing so? Maybe I have to put a sign in my yard first? Or is participation in or organization of a rally against those rascally incumbents a necessary precondition? How about a sit-in? Civil disobedience?

This sounds like the kind of thing where the bar will become lower and lower over time.

Best not to begin...

Re:A slippery slope... (1)

mweather (1089505) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306701)

This is nothing new. They have actually jailed people arrested for marijuana for advocating marijuana legalisation because it is advocating an illegal activity. Needless to say it didn't stand up on appeal.

wow. (4, Insightful)

DragonTHC (208439) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306577)

I guess there really is no limits to the complete incompetence which permeates law enforcement. We all had an impression of law enforcement as not very intelligent, and this just sears it in. Labeling someone as a terrorist because they exercise their Constitutional right to protest. The first amendment is very clear. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Congress shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise of the right of the people to peaceably assemble and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Crystal clear. Congress can make no laws prohibiting people to peaceably assemble.

And if congress can make no laws prohibiting it, law enforcement cannot enforce laws that do not exist. Therefore, law enforcement is violating the Constitutional rights of those citizens.

end of story.

Imagine that (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25306579)

Do Obama and the Democrats deserve a lift in the polls as a result of the financial and mortgage problems? The answer from history is a clear NO. Here's the lead of a New York Times story on September 30, 1999:

"Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending" [link below]. That's 1999 folks. Clinton Administration, I believe.

Here's the lead of a New York Times story on Sept. 11, 2003:

"The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago. "[see link below] The Democrats killed the reforms.

McCain said in co-sponsoring the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190:

"If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system and the economy as a whole. The Democrats killed the Bill.

What was Barney Frank and fellow Democrats saying at the time of these attempted reforms? According to reports, Representative Barney Frank(D-MA) claimed of the thrifts :

"These two entities -- Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac -- are not facing any kind of financial crisis, the more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."

Representative Mel Watt (D-NC) added of the reforms "I don't see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing." [ See Community Reinvestment Act, link below ]

Even Bill Clinton points to Congressional Democrats failure to deal with Fannie and Freddie as a primary cause.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsynspIqAoE [youtube.com]

The link below contains a purported list of the top 25 in Congress who got contributions from the folks at Fannie and Freddie. Obama is listed third, after Dodd and Kerry, even though Obama is just a junior Senator. Obama is followed next by Clinton. Barney Frank and Nancy Pelosi are on the list as well.

http://www.investors.com/editorial/IBDArticles.asp?artsec=16&artnum=1&issue=20080918 [investors.com]

Then there is the Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher J. Dodd who allegedly got special mortgage deals from Countrywide, who gave preferential rates to 'friends' of company's chairman.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25140560/ [msn.com]

For an interesting article purporting to detail the House Financial Services Committee Chairs long history with Fannie Mae, See:
http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2008/20080924145932.aspx [businessandmedia.org]

"House Financial Services Committee Chair promoted GSEs while former 'spouse' was Fannie Mae executive."

The link below describes how some in Congress tried to use the original version of the bailout bill to divert money eventually recovered to groups like ACORN, a group Obama has a long association with. See:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122247015469280723.html?mod=googlenews_wsj [wsj.com]

And then there is House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who allegedly has directed nearly $100,000 from her political action committee to her husband's real estate and investment firm.

http://www.washtimes.com/news/2008/oct/01/pelosis-pac-pays-bills-for-spouses-firm [washtimes.com].

See also:
http://www.investors.com/editorial/IBDArticles.asp?artsec=16&artnum=1&issue=20080918 [investors.com]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act [wikipedia.org]

http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=M2QwNDhkZTg2OGYzZjkzM2E2NDEwM2U5OGVkNTc0YzU= [nationalreview.com]

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E3D6123BF932A2575AC0A9659C8B63 [nytimes.com]

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE7DB153EF933A0575AC0A96F958260 [nytimes.com]

http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2008/20080924145932.aspx [businessandmedia.org]

http://www.investors.com/editorial/IBDArticles.asp?artsec=16&artnum=1&issue=20080926 [investors.com]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122247015469280723.html?mod=googlenews_wsj [wsj.com]

Where is the article about Joe Bidens longstanding relationship with the credit card industry lobby? Is that what you call looking out for the middle class?

Meh (1)

isotope23 (210590) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306583)

And this is why all those people who say "I don't mind if they snoop cause I've got nothing to hide."
are asshats.....

no surprise (4, Interesting)

Wansu (846) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306601)

The United States is a police state. Why is anyone surprised by news like this?

New Categories (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25306607)

Next categories for database:

terrorism-does-not-watch-Fox-News
terrorism-no-flag-pin
terrorism-no-support-the-troops-magnet
terrorism-fringe-person

A clear abuse of power. (1)

k1e0x (1040314) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306619)

There is nothing unique about this other than we know about it.

Power is always sought by those looking to abuse it. We need to get rid of the list, its not effective anyhow with dopes like this on it.

Limited choices .... (1)

taniwha (70410) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306625)

"What do you mean I can't fly?" "it says here you're a convicted terrorist" "I spat on the sidewalk, he wrote me a ticket, he didn't have a 'spitting on the sidewalk' check box so he ticked 'terrorist'" "yeah sure I bet you're one of those Iraqis who destroyed the WTC - we do have tickets to our special place in Cuba ...."

Palin/Regan quote (3, Insightful)

OldSoldier (168889) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306627)

Stories like this underscore my feeling about Palin's quote from the VP debate:

"we're going to find ourselves spending our sunset years telling our children and our children's children about a time in America, back in the day, when men and women were free."

I'm sure that the Republican's view of this is one of war/conquest and that America will lose to some foreign non-democratic state, but today the more urgent issue seems to be loss of civil liberties. Loss of freedom from expanding government power. It's the ultimate irony that the party that espouses this quote is most likely THE party that will remove all our civil liberties and turn freedom into just a memory.

Re:Palin/Regan quote (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25306793)

and it will because the asshats on the left like to throw tantrums and fuck things up because life doesn't match their hippie ideals. Just enforce the sedition laws like we did in the 1910s & 1920s and everything will be ok.

Re:Palin/Regan quote (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25306835)

Loss of freedom from expanding government power. It's the ultimate irony that the party that espouses this quote is most likely THE party that will remove all our civil liberties and turn freedom into just a memory.

only because you have a selective memory. and obama isn't going to do jack shit about the patriot act. he voted for it and he's going to keep it. the democrats have the legislative power and they haven't done shit. nothing. zero. stop being a little jackass bitch and acting like it's not true. your party is fucking you and you're screaming for more, just like a two-bit whore.

keep doing the goosestep just like a good little bitch.

These people should definitely charged. (5, Insightful)

Scholasticus (567646) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306629)

Putting people who aren't terrorists and who aren't likely to become terrorists on a terrorism watch list should either be a firing offense or a criminal offense.

I'm also in favor of criminalizing certain actions routinely carried out by law enforcement (police, prosecutors, etc.). Usually when excessive force is used by a police officer, the worst thing that happens is the officer is suspended or fired, even if the victim dies. Occasionally a police officer is fired. Even more rarely the police officer in question is charged with a crime. Also, if a prosecutor knowingly withholds exculpatory evidence, the most that happens is that the convicted person gets a new trial or is granted an appeal.

I'll give an example of how I think things should work, though I don't know that something like this has ever happened in the United States. Let's say a prosecutor withholds possibly exculpatory evidence in order to win a case where one of the possible penalties is death. Let's also say that the person charged is found guilty, and after exhausting all appeals is put to death. The original prosecutor should be charged with murder, first degree or second degree depending on the strength of the withheld evidence. If this happens in a death penalty state and the charge is first degree murder, then the death penalty should be on the table. If the prosecution can prove beyond a reasonable doubt* that the original prosecutor knowingly withheld the exculpatory evidence then the original prosecutor should be convicted by a jury and given an appropriate sentence.

People in law enforcement should be held to higher standards than the general public, not lower.**

*If such a case were to occur, an independent prosecutor should be appointed, since in most jurisdictions prosecutors all know each other and aren't likely to vigorously prosecute such a case.

**I know this isn't likely to ever happen. I simply think it would be more just than the current system.

When there is no penalty for abusing the system... (2, Insightful)

vinn01 (178295) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306643)

There will always be a number of people who will abuse it unless there is a penalty and a good chance of getting caught. The same with any rule, law, or system. There are many rules, laws, and systems that don't even define penalties for abuse. And the chances of getting caught abusing some of them are minuscule.

how sad (1)

mistahkurtz (1047838) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306645)

when i read the summary, i immediately thought of when godspeed you! black emperor [pitchforkmedia.com] was stopped, for suspected terrorism. i also thought of the recent article [slashdot.org] discussed here about unconstitutional searches and harassment due to government database "errors".

errors indeed...

i've felt for a while that it's time to physically throw our leaders out of the capital building, white house, etc. clearly, they don't care what any of us thinks or wants. but as long as they play the emotional-voting game (religion, psuedo-morality, fear, and so on) they won't be voted out.

does that mean i'm a terrorist? or does this mean that i believe in the ideas that the country was founded on, that people truly are equal, and that *they* (should) work for and represent *us*.......

our "founding fathers" were all terrorists. (at least as far as the british were concerned.) i'm fairly certain (100%) that they'd be executed if they lived now.

Re:how sad (1)

argent (18001) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306987)

i've felt for a while that it's time to physically throw our leaders out of the capital building, white house, etc. [...] does that mean i'm a terrorist?

According to Hutchins [slashdot.org], apparently so.

For Socialist Revolution to Sweep Away Imperialism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25306815)

Socialism or Barbarism!

Classifications? (4, Interesting)

Qzukk (229616) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306855)

Food for thought: is there an entry for "terrorism-anti-abortion protester"?

Does the Maryland State Police throw everyone who protests into the terrorist list, or only those who protest against whatever groups or policies that certain members of the State Police like?

Violent passivists (2, Funny)

philspear (1142299) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306921)

Those idiots should be a lot more worried about violent passivists, not non-violent activists. Granted, the passivists don't do much, but when they do it's a lot bloodier.

donttasemebro (1)

martinw89 (1229324) | more than 5 years ago | (#25306925)

Whoever tagged this donttasemebro, stop. I go to UF, that kid was a jackass. All his friends said he was a jackass. He did jackassary to get attention and was tased because he was being very disruptive, to the point where the cops were afraid of it getting out of hand.

Look, I'm all about stopping abuse of power. I'm against laptop seizures at the border, I know that cops in some states don't get to be a cop unless their IQ is low enough (source [nytimes.com]). But this kid was just being a really big dick for attention and took it way to far. End of story.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...