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Steve Wozniak Predicts Death of the IPod

samzenpus posted more than 5 years ago | from the for-whom-the-bell-tolls dept.

Portables (Apple) 573

Slatterz writes "Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak, better known in the industry as 'Woz,' believes that the iPod is on its way out and has revealed his discomfort with some aspects of the iPhone. Wozniak said that the iPod has had a long time as the world's most popular media player, and that it will fall from grace due to oversupply. Wozniak also commented on the iPhone's proprietary nature and locked service provider, and compared it to Google's open Android platform. 'Consumers are not getting all they want when companies are very proprietary and lock their products down,' he said. 'I would like to write some more powerful apps than what you're allowed.'"

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First post (3, Insightful)

Monkey-some (1178115) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310569)

First post. damn I feel all strange./joke

Well who knows ... the hype with apple products is the reason why so many people like it. Usually it's not the "best" technology who gets approval but the one who is used by most people see Windows, we all know that it's relatively crappy but so many people use it that finally it doesn't count that much.

But clearly android phones are going to be a refreshing new option for the horrible windows mobile platform or the jail'ed Iphone.

Re:First post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25310609)

Is this offtopic or flamebait? I can't tell guys

Re:First post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25310927)

I think your post is Offtopic.
Oh - look you even got modded this way ;)

Re:First post (5, Insightful)

bemo56 (1251034) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310931)

But clearly android phones are going to be a refreshing new option for the horrible windows mobile platform or the jail'ed Iphone.

That's assuming the android phones become more trendy that the iPhone, which is no small task.

Does anyone know of any advertising push google is attempting for the android?

Re:First post (5, Insightful)

electrictroy (912290) | more than 5 years ago | (#25311299)

What's an "android"? Does that answer your question? ;-) I think the Ipod will be like the Walkman Cassette Player... it will be hugely popular with teens and young adults, then slowly lose market share as other "clones" compete with it, and finally die-out as a new technology comes along to replace it.

I'm not sure what could technology could replace the convenience of a portable dedicated computer that plays MP3 and MPEGs, but maybe in the year 2020 such devices will be obsolete. Perhaps the data will be directly downloadable to your brain. (shrug)

Anyway, I don't see MP3 or MPEG players dying anytime soon. The Ipod is safe.

Re:First post (5, Interesting)

Xiroth (917768) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310951)

Well who knows ... the hype with apple products is the reason why so many people like it. Usually it's not the "best" technology who gets approval but the one who is used by most people see Windows, we all know that it's relatively crappy but so many people use it that finally it doesn't count that much.

And it will continue to not count that much...right up until a killer app is released for the Android platform which can't be ported to the iPhone because of the restrictions.

People are complaining about not being able to fiddle around with the iPod and iPhone, but that's not what's going to be the main difference. Phones and mobile devices have just started to come into the area where third-party applications can really start taking off, and as always happens with this sort of situation they'll soon be more important than first-party developed applications. Google's framework is entirely geared towards that supporting that sort of innovation, whereas Apples products are decidedly not.

Re:First post (3, Insightful)

sortius_nod (1080919) | more than 5 years ago | (#25311093)

I don't know how you got modded off-topic.

I have an iPhone 3G and always "umm and arr" about whether or not to jail break it.

I'll see how the android develops and make my mind up then though. It seems it lacks in a few key areas at the moment.

Re:First post (3, Insightful)

somersault (912633) | more than 5 years ago | (#25311131)

The only Android phone I've seen in the UK so far is locked into a T-Mobile contract, so I'd still consider the whole system 'jailed' more than most Windows based or other-OS based smartphones - despite not being quite as locked up as iPhones are.

He's a genius (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25310571)

Well my iPod already died, so he was spot on with that one. The proprietary battery lasted about a year, and it would cost about as much as a new iPod to replace it.

Re:He's a genius (4, Interesting)

Chrisje (471362) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310633)

I hate to say it, but I bought an iPod Classic 80 GB about a year ago. Before that I owned an iAudio 30GB XL player, but the screen broke on that one.

This iPod of mine is in use every day. I use it in the car (hooked up to the car stereo via a built in Aux Jack) for my 2.5 hours of commuting, I use it on planes, I hook it up to my home system to randomly meander through the 850 albums I ripped on it (it's too small though, it won't fit my entire collection). I use it at the office with my Altec Lansing travel speakers to provide me with tunes.

The battery still runs ~28 hours if I don't screw around with the screen too much, and the thing operates flawlessly. Plus, the fact that I got six ways of finding the same song (Search, Genre, Artist, Song, Album, Compilation browsing) and all the trimmings of cover information display and whatnot make it a pretty sweet device. Objectively speaking (and I didn't want to even like the iPod because I've never been a Mac fan with their closed platform bollocks), it is still the best player out there even if they're seeing competition from MicroSoft according to critics. But the market has voted with its wallet.

When this one does, I'm hoping I can replace it with the same device, except a ~250 GB Solid State version. So as long as they keep up with the Joneses, I don't see how Wozniak will be right in the foreseeable future. Then again, on a long enough time scale, and product/individual/company/society has a survival rate of zero, right? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that axiom out.

Re:He's a genius (4, Insightful)

ShadowBlasko (597519) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310673)

Not to be a prick, but my Sandisk Sansa does almost all of that, lets me change "collections" and use Micro SD cards, runs rockbox, plays games, and even lets me watch video in just about whatever format I find best (using rockbox). It also cost me a whopping $30. Still cant see what all the iFuss is about, with the exception of much nicer aftermarket accessories due to market domination.

Re:He's a genius (4, Insightful)

kamikazearun (1282408) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310769)

Yeah. But it's not an apple i-pod. And that is essentially what sells an i-pod.

Re:He's a genius (-1, Redundant)

DurendalMac (736637) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310829)

Apple sells i-pods? Must be a new product, 'cause I don't think anyone has heard of it before.

Re:He's a genius (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25311035)

nice try

Re:He's a genius (5, Interesting)

BrokenHalo (565198) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310975)

Yeah. But it's not an apple i-pod. And that is essentially what sells an i-pod.

Actually, I'm not so sure about that. If anyone other than Apple had come up with such a sleek design and neat interface, it would quite probably have done just as well. I have no quarrel with the SanDisk device mentioned by the GP, but micro-SD cards tend to hold a maximum of only 8GB (last time I looked) and the interface is IMHO only OK if you've never had better.The iPod is just a really well-thought-out product in its own right. It does (pretty much) only one thing and does it well.

Which is why, although I love my iPods, I am not considering buying an iPhone. The latter just doesn't have the storage capacity I (now) find I need, I don't need all those bells and whistles and shiny things, and I do not want any gadget that has to be charged every day, especially if the battery is non-removable.

Re:He's a genius (1)

16K Ram Pack (690082) | more than 5 years ago | (#25311205)

The big question is whether, beyond storage, the iPod has any further to go. The latest releases suggest that it's run out of steam and the whole large flash/HDD MP3 player market is heading to be far more of a comodity market that is is now.

Also, the cost of an 8GB cellphone is coming down quite rapidly. You can get an N95 in the UK for free on a £35 contract now. The future is more likely phones with storage.

Re:He's a genius (4, Funny)

somersault (912633) | more than 5 years ago | (#25311245)

I do not want any gadget that has to be charged every day, especially if the battery is non-removable

Does that mean you're going to be selling your brain? I'm dabbling in a bit of aftermarket brain replacement, and am prepared to offer anything up to $50.

Re:He's a genius (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25310853)

Do you ever wonder if all the ipod evangelicals are actually trying to relay a great experience with a product, and not actually brainwashed by a corporation?

Re:He's a genius (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25310965)

It's simple, at least as far as I'm concerned. The ipod offers the most amount of space in the smallest package for the least money when you're looking at the largest disk sizes.

For the flash based ones, you're right though. I don't get it.

Re:He's a genius (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25311171)

The ipod offers the most amount of space in the smallest package for the least money when you're looking at the largest disk sizes.

Nope.

Re:He's a genius (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25311007)

Your Sansa holds 80GB for $30

I hear you (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25310781)

I'm a die-hard linux geek but deliberated and bought a 10GB ipod about 6 years ago, never once using itunes software. I just replaced it this week with a 16GB nano and am thrilled with the tiny size, much better battery life, and otherwise identical musical experience. The old one still works, but just barely, on its second battery which I installed myself.

I can see myself buying another nano in 5 years at whatever the newly expanded storage space is for $200. As long as I can still get gtkpod or equivalent to work on it.

Re:He's a genius (0)

JasterBobaMereel (1102861) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310877)

You can buy an iPod or you can pay less for another mp3 player that does more has longer battery life

You are paying for some white earphones and a style ....

Re:He's a genius (3, Interesting)

David Gerard (12369) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310987)

They're seeing competition from Microsoft according to MS's fans in the press. The market considers the Zune material for comedy. I was joking [uncyclopedia.org] when I mentioned the possibility of a Zune phone [absolutegadget.com] ...

Microsoft's problem is that Apple is clearly much better at evil these days than they are [today.com]. Microsoft used to have the best and most popular evil; these days they can't even successfully pay people [nytimes.com] to use their evil. And they've been trying for a while [arstechnica.com].

To keep on-topic, Android's main function will be to lift the iPhone's game. Existing and not sucking will be a win for Android and Google. Then, as others have noted, someone will come up with a killer Android app that leaves Apple playing catchup as they've pissed off too many developers. Interesting times and a win for credible competition. Which Microsoft just isn't in this space.

Re:He's a genius (5, Interesting)

SenseiLeNoir (699164) | more than 5 years ago | (#25311233)

Ok, I have mixed feelings of the merits of the iPod. As a caveat, I have to mention I do own an iPod touch 16GB. I also own a Nokia n95, a SonyEricsson k800i, an iPaq, and Motorola bluetooth headphones. I have also used an iPod Shuffle, an iPod Nano, and a creative Labs Muvo.

I would be first to admit, the ipods are not all that hot in terms of features and sound quality. I have read a review earlier this year, where various music players (including phones) were tested for pure sound quality including dynamic range, etc (testing the analogue side of the hardware too). The Ipods generally came on the middle to the bottom of the range, witht he iPhone and iPod touch coming at the bottom of the ipods, and the ipod Shuffle performing best, and above average compared to other devices from other manufacturers.

The best Player Only devices were from Sony, followed very closely by Samsung and Creative. Even the Phones came very highly rated, with the SonyEriccson K800i coming on top, and only "beaten" by some really good player only devices by Sony. My Nokia N95 is also "better" than the iPods. Add to the fact that many other devices also have FM radio.

The N95 allows direct download of podcasts (something the iPhone does not allow, AND apple have banned an app that tried to allow that).

Even the so called "simplicity" of iTunes has been called to task. I now know of many other music managers that do a pretty good job of managing sound libraries. In fact, many (including Windows Media Player) can even sync with ANY standard USB Mass Storage Device. Considering that itunes cannot "monitor" a set of folders to see changes, and update a library on its own (you need to download ITLu to do that), it is poorer in many aspects.

The iPod touch does not support the Bluetooth headphones I have. The iPaq, the K800, and the N95 did. in fact, before I got the ipod touch, I used to connect my Ipaq and my k800 to the headphones simultaneously. the iPaq would feed music wirelessly, and when a phone call came through, the headset would automatically switch to the phone, and send a pause command to the iPaq, resuming automatically when the call was ended. All this happened seamlessly, and wirelessly, despite being made by different manufacturers... it "just worked".

But..... despite all this, I still use the iPod Touch.. why?

a) the iPod's screen is VERY nice, yet portable. I watch a lot of podcasts, and sometimes movies on the train to work. the N95 is not as good as the iPod.

b) ability to sync "Played" statuses between iPods and iTunes, which allows me to manage the podcasts effectively (deleting played ones in itunes). I understand this is not a very strong reason, because if I used the N95, to download (via wireless/3g) I dont even need to involve a computer in the first place.

c) On a day to day basis, I don't like my phone running out of battery. the N95 does not charge from USB, and Although it may be a better music player, I would rather have the battery for other reasons, such as making calls.

d) Maybe because I paid so much for a iPod Touch, I feel more compelled to use it. (maybe despite my better judgment, I am subconsciously attracted to "pretty things", as well as the Jobs Reality Distortion field.)

e) I am just a lazy procrastinator.

But as You can see, a lot of these reasons are flimsy at best, and I will be doing a test where I will replace my ipod with my n95 for one day, and see how that goes on the morning commute.

I am also scoping Android.....

So maybe Woz has a point.

Re:He's a genius (4, Informative)

DurendalMac (736637) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310825)

Really? So a new iPod costs less than $40 like the battery replacement kits? They're not that tough to do. Heck, if you're worried, mail it into Blue Raven for $70 and let them do it. They'll replace it with a higher capacity battery and ship it back to you within three days. Still cheaper than a new one.

Re:He's a genius (1)

Ash-Fox (726320) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310929)

So a new iPod costs less than $40 like the battery replacement kits?

Not here.

They're not that tough to do. Heck, if you're worried, mail it into Blue Raven for $70 and let them do it.

There is no firm in this country called "Blue Raven". Seems to be some American thing.

Re:He's a genius (2, Interesting)

BrokenHalo (565198) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310845)

Well my iPod already died, so he was spot on with that one. The proprietary battery lasted about a year, and it would cost about as much as a new iPod to replace it.

The battery in my old iPod Mini gave me several good years of hard use, but is now defunct. I have now relegated that machine to the car, where it remains permamently plugged into a RoadTrip FM transmitter. Figure if anyone steals it, it won't be worth a cent at any hock shop.

This gave me the "excuse" to go and treat myself to a 160GB iPod Classic, which meets my storage needs better. Say what you will (and I think Woz is wrong about this) the iPod does offer pretty much the best bang for your buck in terms of capacity, at least here in Australia, and while there's a market for portable music players, I see no reason why the iPod should die any time soon.

I don't think most people care that it's locked (4, Informative)

GrpA (691294) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310601)

I can't understand the appear of iXXXX's either. Locked proprietary technology with limited scope for a geek to truly enjoy.

What I've noticed though is that the people who buy them don't seem to care...

Sure they'll die, but I doubt they'll die just because there's something better on the market.

And as for open alternatives? I've had a Symbian phone for years. Lots of free apps and developer tools, built in GPS and great touch screen, been around for years... That didn't stop the iPhone coming out either.

GrpA

Re:I don't think most people care that it's locked (3, Insightful)

FilterMapReduce (1296509) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310649)

What I've noticed though is that the people who buy them don't seem to care...

Perhaps not directly, but over time the Android platform will likely build up a more impressive library of apps written by tinkers and hobbyists who did care. Even non-geek users will eventually notice the difference.

Re:I don't think most people care that it's locked (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25311141)

Like they did notice how the linux platform is better than the ms windows plateform, how it has so much more tools and all .. oh wait ... that didn't happen.

Not very likely to happen here either, time will tell

(I do like linux and android ...)

Re:I don't think most people care that it's locked (5, Insightful)

ciderVisor (1318765) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310655)

I can't understand the appear of iXXXX's either. Locked proprietary technology with limited scope for a geek to truly enjoy.

What I've noticed though is that the people who buy them don't seem to care...

You answered yourself with the second sentence; iPods and iPhones aren't targetted at geeks.

I'm no (current) Apple fan and don't own any Apple products. However, from a consumer POV, Apple got an awful lot of things 'right first time' with the iPod and iPhone. They're intuitive and stylish and give you the right functionality as simply as possible. It's like Nokia did when cellphones became popular a few years ago - deliver a 'must have' consumer product that feels right.

Woz is a remarkable guy, a bit of a hero to me. But he's no consumer product guru.

Re:I don't think most people care that it's locked (4, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310711)

What I've noticed though is that the people who buy them don't seem to care...

The only reason they don't care is because they haven't seen that the grass is greener on the open side of the fence.
It is hard to miss what you don't know. But should Android or even a WinCE system get a few cool toys that apple explicitly forbids, that green light of envy will start to burn bright.

I've had a Symbian phone for years. Lots of free apps and developer tools, built in GPS and great touch screen, been around for years... That didn't stop the iPhone coming out either.

Because the iphone had a cool new interface that no other phone had. But its going to be a tough battle for Apple to keep ahead of the other platforms when they are deliberately excluding software that people want.

Re:I don't think most people care that it's locked (1)

16K Ram Pack (690082) | more than 5 years ago | (#25311273)

The real issue for Apple is that if things take off on Android, they won't be able to get developers back fast enough and iPhone will be a 2nd rate development platform like OSX is.

Android already had a benefit that it's Java rather than Objective-C based. You don't need to buy a Mac to play around with it, you can discuss it all over and there's tons of open source Java code and Java books.

Re:I don't think most people care that it's locked (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25311291)

But should Android or even a WinCE system get a few cool toys that apple explicitly forbids, that green light of envy will start to burn bright.

I'm not saying they don't exist, or that they are trivial; but please specify the types of "cool toys" that Apple explicitly forbid that aren't replacements for existing apps?

Seriously; I'm considering an iPhone, that info might change my decision.

when they are deliberately excluding software that people want.

Even more interested: what apps are people asking for that aren't developable under the current restrictions? (again that aren't "a third party version of XYZ"?

they care about functionality, though (5, Insightful)

speedtux (1307149) | more than 5 years ago | (#25311013)

End users don't care about specs, but they do care about functionality.

Features like downloading and syncing over the air, updating podcasts, shopping at multiple music stores, place shifting, better E-mail clients, and laptop Internet access matter even to non-geeks, and Apple is preventing a lot of that from happening.

I think the reason that hasn't mattered for initial iPhone sales is because most US consumers are so inexperienced with smart phones that even the iPhone seems like a big step forward and because the only other smart phones US carriers are pushing are the Blackberry and Windows Mobile shit, often with carrier restrictions. But Android and Symbian are going to change that. We'll have to see whether Apple can reverse course quickly enough, because it won't be long before regular users do care about all this.

Re:they care about functionality, though (1)

wiz_80 (15261) | more than 5 years ago | (#25311081)

End users don't care about specs, but they do care about functionality.

Features like downloading and syncing over the air, updating podcasts, shopping at multiple music stores, place shifting, better E-mail clients, and laptop Internet access matter even to non-geeks, and Apple is preventing a lot of that from happening.

I count myself as a geek, and I don't care about most of those features. Over-the-air sync would be nice, but I can see why it was not Apple's top priority.

The iPod just works, and that's all there is to it. Apple got it right, and all the other vendors are left playing catch-up with ugly, difficult to use devices. All they can do is target some of the niches that Apple bypassed during their drive to corner all of the rest of the market, such as greater openness, but the numbers say that consumers don't really care.

As for Android, we shall see whether the Google brand can beat the iPod + some phone features combo that Apple offers in the iPhone. I can see it going either way.

Re:I don't think most people care that it's locked (1)

CSMatt (1175471) | more than 5 years ago | (#25311113)

What I've noticed though is that the people who buy them don't seem to care...

Sure they'll die, but I doubt they'll die just because there's something better on the market.

Reminding everyone of the mortality of iPhone users seems a bit harsh, don't you think?

Re:I don't think most people care that it's locked (1)

YourExperiment (1081089) | more than 5 years ago | (#25311287)

What I've noticed though is that the people who buy them don't seem to care... Sure they'll die, but I doubt they'll die just because there's something better on the market.

I dunno, I know a few people who probably would die if you told them there was something better than an iPhone on the market.

iPhone discomfort, yes (3, Insightful)

line-bundle (235965) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310611)

I did read tfa. His prediction on the iPod does not seem to take apple's innovation history.

I do agree with his discomfort with the iPhone. Apple had the chance to revolutionize the cell phone market in the US and flubbed it.

Re:iPhone discomfort, yes (1)

jaypeg (711764) | more than 5 years ago | (#25311109)

iPhone is now the number 1 smart phone in the US in just over a year. Revolutionizing the cell phone market is fait accompli. I do agree with Woz's coments about the platform being locked down, but I don't think this is going to be a permanent condition going forward. The platform is still in it's first year. I expect that Apple is going to loosen up quite a bit after they feel the OS/platform becomes mature enough. It's actually a smart way of doing things because they keep a tight leash on the overall platform development direction in the formative years. But let's all watch how Android unfolds. It might quickly turn into a trailer park for crappy code, or it may quickly emerge as a highly stable and popular platform. It's good to know that developers will have a choice between the two platform development strategies. They can choose the highly managed Apple iPhone environment with it's tight ties between the code and device or they can choose the much more open Android solution. Let's all judge this by who delivers the most functional and reliable smart phones.

iPod UI (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25310623)

I recently played around with an iPod (classic) and to be honest I really dont get why people tout its great UI ('clickwheel') - at least for me it was completely counter-intuitive and just plain stupid. I mean why no dedicated buttons for volume? The iPod UI in the iPhone works much better for me.

Re:iPod UI (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25310959)

Apple actually stole the UI for the iPod from Creative.

iTunes = malware (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25310627)

I never liked iTunes and thus also not iPod, and that all because ONE TIME, years ago, iTunes was installed on my PC during the installation of other software without me asking for it (or making the stupid checkbox to turn it off not visible enough) and me since then associating the name iTunes with malware. That association has never left my head, and continues on for iPod and iPhone. If everyone would have been like me, Apple would have had to change the name of their brand because their brand would be dirty in everyone's memory.

Re:iTunes = malware (2, Insightful)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310651)

While it may not behave that well on PC, the quicktime/itunes framework on the apple platform works incredibly well.

Most people outside the PC world stare down their nose the same way at windows media files.

Re:iTunes = malware (1)

speedtux (1307149) | more than 5 years ago | (#25311027)

It works well if you're happy with iTunes as your media manager; there is really little choice on the Mac. Unfortunately, iTunes just isn't very good for large media collections and it has numerous problems with content not purchased through the iTunes store or ripped from CD.

Re:iTunes = malware (1)

Fred_A (10934) | more than 5 years ago | (#25311187)

While it may not behave that well on PC, the quicktime/itunes framework on the apple platform works incredibly well.

Most people outside the PC world stare down their nose the same way at windows media files.

I don't really know about Windows (I assume that's what you mean by "PC") which I don't use much and where Apple software seems to misbehave so that I never installed anything from them there. Granted it works "fairly well" in Mac OS but keeps on hinting that "hey you should check our online store" (and upgrade to Quicktime pro while you're at it). Which I found really old really fast.

The constant nagging for commercial products, from .mac to the printing services to iTunes and whatnot by all the Apple software was really annoying to me. That and the fact that I never really got into the "this interface is so great" mindset made it a no brainer to swap my iBook (now a doorstop) for a Samsung lappy with KDE (I used a Sony PictureBook w/ KDE before the Apple). I guess their stuff isn't for me.

Re:iTunes = malware (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25310681)

Same poster. I'll add to this by saying just how bad this iTunes experience was. This was 5 years or so ago. I think I wanted to see a clip or something that required QuickTime. I was already annoyed by the fact I had to install that thing (and didn't know about alternatives yet). So then this iTunes thing also got installed with it, and I was like: WTF dude, I don't have a stupid iPod and I'm a die hard Winamp user, what do I need this stupid unasked program for? Then after a PC reboot it also turned out to be even worse: iTunes was one of those programs that ALWAYS puts an icon in the tray (and I hate lots of icons in the tray, especially if they're from programs you don't even use), and to make it worse, iTunes also let itself be heard by stupid start center or "oh plz update me now!" things. It also took more than just msconfig to remove it as far as I can remember.

So yeah, that's never going to leave my head how shitty malware-like this iTunes and all software, stores and hardware that is associated to it is.

Re:iTunes = malware (2, Informative)

Chrisje (471362) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310705)

So you disregard iTunes and use SharePod to copy content to and from the iPod.

Doesn't make the iPod a less great player. "locked down" in the 21st century doesn't mean anything, don't you know that? There's always some asshole somewhere that will hack / open it.

I see the same complaint about the iPhone and just shrug. It was supposed to be vendor locked. So the first thing that happened in Europe is that people hacked and opened it. There are millions of "open" iPhones in the EU.

I'm amazed nobody pointed this out on slashdot of all places. DOH!

Re:iTunes = malware (1)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310783)

"locked down" in the 21st century doesn't mean anything, don't you know that? There's always some asshole somewhere that will hack / open it.

alas, this is not always the case.

Try to open a vault e-book on anything but a windows machine.

Re:iTunes = malware (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25311215)

Or sync a Zune under Linux...

Re:iTunes = malware (1)

BrokenHalo (565198) | more than 5 years ago | (#25311089)

When I got my first iPod, I used gtkpod to manage its content. It worked perfectly well, and I have no reason not to believe that it still does. I now have a Mac as well as my Linux box, and so I just use iTunes, even though I don't have to. The issues mentioned by the GP seem to refer to Microsoft's horrible interface more than anything, and his charge of "malware" would be better directed at Windows than iTunes.

Re:iTunes = malware (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25311253)

I'm sorry, but I would have to consider that part of iTunes/Apples idiosyncratic need to force itself upon customers. Just like they forced users to install they're crappy safari and then apologized for it later.

Re:iTunes = malware (4, Informative)

Bearhouse (1034238) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310855)

iTunes works well on Macs, where people want, and expect, things to 'just work'.
On windows platforms, where many users have been forced to learn more than they'd like to about the technical aspects, I agree that iTunes is a pain. It renames your mp3 files, reformats iPods if you try to connect to another PC, limits your ability to share file whatever.

Typical closed architecture, (reminds me of the old IBM days). Products work reasonably well within one manufacturer's range, don't play well with others.

Since all my kids have PCs and iPods, we use Mediamonkey.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediamonkey [wikipedia.org]
Works as advertised. Free version enough for most people.
Recommended. (c)Pournelle.

Re:iTunes = malware (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25311229)

Yes; if everyone were a bit of a tit, then the iTunes brand would have gotten a bad rep.

Fortunately for Appple, it appears your particular brand of dumb and bigoted is in the minority.

Out of touch (5, Insightful)

Philotic (957984) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310631)

I would like to write some more powerful apps than what you're allowed.

Clearly Woz is not in Apple's demographic. It's been said time and again: Apple succeeds at delivering coherent, easy-to-use products that admirably perform tasks that typical non-techy users require. As long as Apple continues to design the products with that mentality, they will do well. If the iPod/iPhone stops selling briskly, it will be because everybody who wants one already has one, not because an Android phone lets you ssh into your home slackware server.

Re:Out of touch (5, Insightful)

Guido del Confuso (80037) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310659)

Besides, the iPhone already is open, at least unofficially. I can in fact SSH from mine, and have been able to ever since I got it. I am a techie user, and I'm perfectly satisfied with my iPhone.

I'm sure Woz is sort of conflicted by the fact that, as much as he might want to, it would be impolitic for him to announce he had jailbroken his phone.

Re:Out of touch (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25310763)

Mine isn't jail broken and I can ssh from it. I just bought a ssh app for $3 or so...

Re:Out of touch (1)

Philotic (957984) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310811)

I can in fact SSH from mine, and have been able to ever since I got it.

Point taken. However, I think the point remains that the iPhone's demise will not be due to a (perceived) lack of capability. In fact, because you are a techie and are satisfied with the iPhone, I think proves the point even further.

As for the App store, I think that's a non-issue for most people, much like the 250gb Comcast bandwidth cap. Sure, it's going to irritate some people, but I don't think it detracts from the overall value of the product.

Re:Out of touch (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25310903)

Learn to recognize when someone is agreeing with you, dipshit.

Re:Out of touch (5, Interesting)

DrEldarion (114072) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310911)

Regarding iPhone vs Android, Android has some key advantages:

1) Multiple service providers. Not everyone wants to be locked into the one provider that Apple supports.
2) Multiple handsets. If I don't like the base iPhone, I have no other choices. Android is going to be on a wide variety of different devices.
3) Cost. If another company is developing your phone's OS, you can put less of your own resources into it and sell it for cheaper.
4) Application availability. Apple is known for rejecting apps on a whim. You can download whatever you want on an Android phone.

Users do care about openness, not necessarily because it's openness, but rather for the things that it allows.

Re:Out of touch (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25310997)

Apple's stuff is not easy to use by itself, it's only easy to use the way apple intended it and if you deviate from that a bit ( you don't have to be an uber-geek to do that ) you are in for some frustration.

discomfort is a feature (3, Funny)

Trepidity (597) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310641)

Maybe not quite in the discomfort-with-lack-of-openness sense that he meant it, but the iPhone is supposed to be a temperamental item to own, much like a Chihuaha [bogost.com].

Re:discomfort is a feature (1)

InfiniteLoopCounter (1355173) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310699)

Discomfort... a feature!? You must have been conned by some pretty clever marketing here.

This is akin to the bug trackers that list enhancements as bugs to be avoided.

Engineer's eyes. (4, Insightful)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310657)

Woz is looking at the iPhone with engineering eyes, not consumers eyes. It's a strange culture shock to geeks when they find out the universe of non-geeks doesn't work like them. Yes, the API is locked down, yes, it is locked to a single service provider but the average user really REALLY doesn't care. Even if they do know better, they really don't care. It's why McDonald's sales are high. They know a better burger, but they don't care. I'm not sure if this is a problem or not, to be quite frank. But when a geek tells me is a better solution, they're not realizing that "better" is incredibly subjective. Yes, OpenMoko is open, but is that better to me? I don't want to edit config files unless i'm being paid for it.

Is the iPod going to die out? Sure. Not before moving much much more product in the mean time.

Re:Engineer's eyes. (1)

Savage-Rabbit (308260) | more than 5 years ago | (#25311241)

...yes, it is locked to a single service provider but the average user really REALLY doesn't care

I kind of doubt that. There is an enormous number of customers that Apple is not getting to either because they didn't release the iPhone in their country, because the customers don't like the 'official' carriers or because even though they could unlock the iPhone they won't put up with the hassle involved in doing so. Purely form a sales point of view Apple made a major mistake locking the iPhone to carriers.

Not blocking (2, Insightful)

utnapistim (931738) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310663)

I doubt the iPod will go out of market because of it's limitations.

All they have to do is see they loose market share and address the issues. I know it sounds easier than it is, but the marketing team that kept the ipod where it is for so long cannot be so incompetent as to not get over it.

Perhaps a better framing would have been "iPod as it is now is on it's way out".

That said, I got myself a Sansa e280 instead of iPod, especially due to the iPod's lock-in, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

Re:Not blocking (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25311155)

Your grammar is horrible. Please go back to school or die.

And we would care about this 'woz' WHY, exactly? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25310669)

This is what it would be like, if the majority of people were athiests.
ATHIEST KID: Mom, I'm going to go fuck a hooker.
ATHIEST MOM: Okay, son.
ATHIEST KID: Afterwards, I'm going to go smoke pot with my friends, since it's "not addictive."
ATHIEST MOM: Okay, come home soon!

The athiest kid leaves the room. The father comes home from work several minutes later.

ATHIEST DAD: Hey!
ATHIEST MOM: Hi, honey! I'm pregnant again. I guess I'll just get another abortion, since "fetuses don't count as human life."
ATHIEST DAD: Okay, get as many abortions as you want!
ATHIEST MOM: Oh, and don't go in the bedroom.
ATHIEST DAD: Why not?
ATHIEST MOM: There are two gay men fucking eachother in there.
ATHIEST DAD: Why are they here?
ATHIEST MOM: I wanted to watch them do it for awhile. They just aren't finished yet.
ATHIEST DAD: Okay, that's fine with me!

Suddenly, their neighbor runs into the house.

ATHIEST NEIGHBOR: Come quick, there's a Christian outside!
ATHIEST MOM: We'll be right there!

The athiest couple quickly put on a pair of black robes and hoods. They then exit the house, and run into the street, where a Christian is nailed to a large, wooden X. He is being burned alive. A crowd of athiests stand around him, all wearing black robes and hoods.

RANDOM ATHIEST: Damn you, Christian! We hate you! We claim to be tolerant of all religions. But we really hate your's! That's because we athiests are hypocritical like that! Die, Christian!

THE END

Scary, isn't it?

Re:And we would care about this 'woz' WHY, exactly (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25310889)

Troll or Flamebait...

Place your bets now!

Re:And we would care about this 'woz' WHY, exactly (-1, Offtopic)

PinkyDead (862370) | more than 5 years ago | (#25311313)

Informative...

How long have I been an atheist and didn't realize all these options were available? No more good clean living for me - I don't know where I got that nonsense from. Hookers and pot from here on in - yeeha!

I would of course take up genocide, institutionalized rape and mass murder etc. - but unfortunately those damn christians have pretty much cornered the market on that.

Re:And we would care about this 'woz' WHY, exactly (1)

edittard (805475) | more than 5 years ago | (#25311193)

Ms Palin (or may I call you Sarah?), have you ever considered signing up for an account here?

Not Apple's Demographic (5, Insightful)

MassacrE (763) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310695)

Apple is in the business, especially for consumer devices, of promoting solutions. This is a big differentiator from the competitors who usually focus on feature checklists and component integration.

However, someone like Woz is a hacker in the purest sense of the word - he wants to get tools and pieces that he can use to make his own solutions. An iPod he cannot change things on is not something he's interested in.

But for most people, the fascination with Apple comes simply from Apple 'getting it' - most consumers want to pay for problems to be solved for them, not to be given tools to learn to solve the problems themselves.

Yeah, and we're all going to die (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25310747)

Steve Wozniak saying "the iPod is going to die some day" was in the same vein as someone saying "we're all going to die some day". It's trivially true and that was what he was getting at.

ipods market share will flatten (1)

ramul (1103299) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310767)

once the patent on that wheel navigator runs out. im surprised you can patent the thing, shows what i know about patents i guess.

not popular due to oversupply? (2, Insightful)

mateomiguel (614660) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310801)

How can something become not popular because there are too many of them? Can someone please explain it to me? Did cars fall from grace because there were too many? Buttons perhaps? Children, are they not popular any longer?

Re:not popular due to oversupply? (1)

scum-e-bag (211846) | more than 5 years ago | (#25311263)

When it becomes cool to not like something because it is popular.

When something reaches a level of market saturation such that it is no longer a novelty and is just a common item.

Popularity seems to have some form of scarcity attached to it.

Again? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25310847)

The person who posted this last time must not have got the response he was looking for.
I think this is the third time it's been posted in the last two weeks.
I'm suffering from troll-overload.

Woz is a genius, but not a marketplace genius (5, Insightful)

Edgewize (262271) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310851)

Steve Wozniak is a smart guy but he is, to put it mildly, an extreme "power user". He left Apple to develop a programmable IR remote control (http://www.ktronicslc.com/core.html) with 256 functions split over 16 code pages.

It had programmable macros, scheduled timers, and absolutely no way to label what a button *does*. If the batteries ever ran down it had to be re-flashed via a serial link. It's technically sweet, it filled a niche that Woz perceived in his daily life, and it remains completely unusable for 99.9% of the world's population. (I'm sure it generated some fantastic patents, though!)

I would trust Steve Wozniak to design firmware for a battery powered car, or to build a lifesaving medical device, or to write a graphical Tetris clone that fit entirely in the unused bytes of a LILO boot sector. But I don't think his opinions on the marketability of consumer electronics are worth a damn.

iPod still has a long life in many countries (1, Informative)

sznupi (719324) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310857)

Perhaps US and few other countries are indeed starting to be "oversupplied" with iPods (though I wonder how is that a sign of death...), I don't know.

But IMHO iPod sales still have bright future in many places where, until recently, iPods were waaaay too expensive for all but small minority (rest choose cheap chinese noname mp3 players). I see it happening around me right now (ex-soviet bloc, central european, new EU member country) - for most of their presence on the market, iPods were almost shunned as extravagant, unnecessary and few times overpriced.

But during the last year and a half, perhaps two, this started to change. Partially thanks to new, cheaper with each revision, models and growing life standard, they are now...fashionable. Now, also here, it's "I can choose iPod or one of that other mp3 players...I'll try to have an iPod"

B?SOD (2, Funny)

Kvasio (127200) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310909)

So finally iPod users will have a chance to experience blue? touch-screen of death ...

locking the iphone to an operator (3, Insightful)

Synjyn (1379989) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310955)

This was a bad move, not only hurt in terms of sales but damaged the Apple brand image, pushing them towards the sort of resentment that MS manage to generate.

Bah! (3, Funny)

speedtux (1307149) | more than 5 years ago | (#25310963)

Wozniak must be one of those Apple haters who has never used a Mac in his life. Quick, mod him down! Oh, wait...

Title... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25311009)

It's iPod, not IPod you insensitive clod!

Trivial truth... (1)

mok000 (668612) | more than 5 years ago | (#25311085)

This statement is not interesting at all. Sooner or later, every piece of technology will die. I will die. You will die, Woz will die.

It's a trivial truth not worth the all the attention.

What an insight (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25311099)

So, where is the news on this statement? the fact that was Woz who said it?

More people are just using their cell phones (5, Interesting)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | more than 5 years ago | (#25311183)

I ride on trains and a subway to work every day. About a quarter to a half of the passengers have headphones stuffed into their ears. Most of the times the headphones are connected to a cell phone, and not an MP3 player.

Granted, where I live even kids in their early teens have cell phones.

If you have a cell phone that offers good quality audio, why bother with an extra gadget?

Convergence is the thing (1)

doktorjayd (469473) | more than 5 years ago | (#25311203)

I just decided against an iPhone ( in australia ) and went with a walkman phone from sony-ericsson instead.

remember walkman?

same deal for iPod methinks.

iPhone will probably have to open up once android gets momentum

i talked the provider into 12 months contract on the w980 phone - with the express intent that my next handset will be android based - hey i write java for a living, the api for android is reasonable, and given how cheap flash storage is these days, i'd expect 32gig + in 12 months time. this new handset has 8 gigs built in, which is fine for my needs for now.

and while i have dabbled in j2me for phone software in the past, what the android sdk looks more like is a full blown stack with an implicit 'always connected' promise. gimme gimme gimme!

thing that woz seemed to be getting more toward was there will be a diminished need for the straight up ipod media player, and as a result ipods themselves will probably drop off and things like iPhone will take their place.

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