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Microsoft's New Programming Language, "M"

timothy posted more than 5 years ago | from the well-it-sounds-delicious dept.

Databases 334

Anthony_Cargile writes "Microsoft announced Friday their new 'M' language, designed especially for building textual domain-specific languages and software models with XAML. Microsoft will also announce Quadrant, for building and viewing models visually, and a repository for storing and combining models using a SQL Server database. While some say the language is simply their 'D' language renamed to a further letter down the alphabet, the language is criticized for lack of a promised cross-platform function because of its ties to MS SQL server, which only runs on Windows."

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334 comments

lame (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342173)

great. another language to learn that is completely useless and no one will use.. And I'm not trolling, this glut of languages is fucking ridiculous. Why not clean up the fucking dotnet framework reference dlls?

Re:lame (5, Funny)

LEMONedIScream (1111839) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342501)

If you're not trolling, why post AC? Hell, why I am I responding?

Re:lame (5, Interesting)

berwiki (989827) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342527)

which parts need cleaned up?
they are all pretty consistent across the board.

and who cares how many languages there are. each one fits a different purpose, whether they are small niches or big sweeping frameworks like Java, does it really bother you that someone, somewhere just went 'yes, this is perfect for me'?

Re:lame (5, Funny)

The Redster! (874352) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342559)

New Entry-level opportunity for a young, seasoned programmer in a fast-paced environment. Must have:

2 Years MS-SQL experience
3 Years in "M", 5 preferred
Pay negotiable.

Re:lame (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342595)

Or you can sling coffee @ Charbucks and make the same pay

They did (4, Funny)

Weaselmancer (533834) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342877)

Why not clean up the fucking dotnet framework reference dlls?

You can download them here. [sun.com]

Re:lame (3, Insightful)

encoderer (1060616) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342911)

You are trolling. If you weren't you'd have no need to try to disclaim it.

There's no such thing as too many languages.

From a programmers perspective the more the market fragments the more opportunity for specialized knowledge that increases your market value.

And it seems you don't really understand the idea of M. This is not a general purpose language.

So your post is like saying "iPod? Great. Another computer to buy that is useless and no one will use. This glut of computers is fucking ridiculous. Why not make x86 boot quickly instead?"

The iPod is a specialized computer for a specialized task. Just like M.

And some people think... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342175)

cucumbers taste better pickled...

Not a problem (4, Funny)

overshoot (39700) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342181)

While some say the language is simply their 'D' language renamed to a further letter down the alphabet, the language is criticized for lack of a promised cross-platform function because of its ties to MS SQL server, which only runs on Windows."

That's not a bug, that's a feature.

Cross platform? Bwahahaha (5, Funny)

SL Baur (19540) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342219)

From TFA:

By âoecross platformâ, Microsoft means, âoecross platform as long the other platform authors write a backend for the code, and the SQL database MUST be hosted on MS SQL, a proprietary Microsoft Windows serviceâ.

Let me clarify that statement. By cross platform we mean that this is portable to both Microsoft Windows XP and Microsoft Vista.

Re:Cross platform? Bwahahaha (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342461)

...but we're still not sure about Vista.

Re:Cross platform? Bwahahaha (5, Funny)

Sentry21 (8183) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342725)

And not just Windows XP Vista - all three versions of XP and all eight versions of Windows Vista! Truly the broadest, deepest multiplatform support of any programming language available!

Re:Not a problem (4, Interesting)

emj (15659) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342229)

It's almost the only thing the article mentions, you can't go more than three paragraphs before you get "MS sucks the tied D with MSSQL server". I would be interested in knowing what D is. Is there someone with a good article about M or D if that's what it is?

fanboy central here we come..

Re:Not a problem (4, Informative)

zukinux (1094199) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342471)

It's almost the only thing the article mentions, you can't go more than three paragraphs before you get "MS sucks the tied D with MSSQL server". I would be interested in knowing what D is. Is there someone with a good article about M or D if that's what it is?

fanboy central here we come..

Hey,
It originated as a re-engineering of C++, but even though it is predominantly influenced by that language, it is not a variant of C++. D has redesigned some C++ features and has been influenced by concepts used in other programming languages, such as Java, C# and Eiffel. A stable version, 1.0, was released on January 2, 2007.
Here's a little explanation taken from wikepedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D_programming_language [wikipedia.org] more info can be found on http://www.digitalmars.com/d [digitalmars.com] Good luck!

Re:Not a problem (5, Informative)

Tunfisch (938605) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342713)

That's a different D.

Microsoft's D is "a new declarative programming language [...] that is expected to serve as a textual modeling language that will let business managers and non-technical stakeholders manipulate digital assets."

(http://www.campustechnology.com/articles/58675/)

Re:Not a problem (1)

zukinux (1094199) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342807)

That's a different D.

Microsoft's D is "a new declarative programming language [...] that is expected to serve as a textual modeling language that will let business managers and non-technical stakeholders manipulate digital assets."

(http://www.campustechnology.com/articles/58675/)

If so, they should have thought of a better name, cause this letter is already taken :)

Re:Not a problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342657)

D seems to be a "declarative language aimed at non-developers."
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1159&tag=mncol;txt

Dial (1)

Das Auge (597142) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342805)

Program "M" for moron.

Sorry, that name is taken (sort of) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342185)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUMPS [wikipedia.org]

But Microsoft doesn't care.

Re:Sorry, that name is taken (sort of) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342269)

why should they care? the winner takes it all...

music (1)

nerdonamotorcycle (710980) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342187)

Does it whistle "In the Hall of the Mountain King"?

Re:music (1)

uglyduckling (103926) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342265)

Not after you've hit it with a hammer a few times.

Not the current D (4, Informative)

PhrostyMcByte (589271) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342191)

So apparently Microsoft tried to make their own "D" long ago and failed. It's not talking about the current D from Digital Mars. The article had me confused for a few minutes there.

Promal/V2 (1)

SL Baur (19540) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342281)

So apparently Microsoft tried to make their own "D" long ago and failed.

I guess so and I admit to being confused a bit by that part too.

Anyone care to comment on the phenomenal success of Promal (which was a similar "product")?

"Now you do not need any other confusing computer language, now, you have Promal!" (Quote from an IBM PC trade rag in the early 1980s). Though even that was more cross platform than this "M" is supposed to be - it ran on 6502s too.

Re:Not the current D (-1, Troll)

narcberry (1328009) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342637)

Next step for microsoft would be to remove support for their current languages, and push .net developers into 'm'. Of course, 'm' is for microsoft, so you will lose the legal battle when m$ sues for your source code.

Re:Not the current D (1)

encoderer (1060616) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342935)

This makes no sense.

You're out of your depth.

Wait for the next FP post on WoW or something similarly inane.

Story Mirror (2, Informative)

Anthony_Cargile (1336739) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342193)

From thecoffeedesk.com:

In a software-centric world where we already have many, many languages to program in, from scripting to bytecode compiled languages, to frameworks on top of languages and embedded languages, now Redmond wants to bring ANOTHER language to the table, titled âMâ(TM) (for Microsoft?).

The new language is to be a part of Microsoftâ(TM)s new Oslo development and service-oriented strategy, incorporating features from XAML while being textual and domain-specific. M is to be used directly with 2 other components to be released with M along with Visual Studio 2010: Quadrant, a tool for building models visually, and a repository for storing and viewing models in an SQL database.

Microsoft has not said much other than that about the new language, but it will presumably be a compiled .net language (goodbye true native code), and from what Microsoft said, M is to strive to be cross-platformâ¦. with a catch.

By âoecross platformâ, Microsoft means, âoecross platform as long the other platform authors write a backend for the code, and the SQL database MUST be hosted on MS SQL, a proprietary Microsoft Windows serviceâ. It makes perfect sense for being cross platform, if you are Microsoft and trying to purchase many copies of Windows (therefore generating revenue, and presumably the version is Vista or win2k8 since XP is out).

Another source says the language is actually their âDâ(TM) language, only revamped to fit into their new Oslo modeling strategy and renamed to a further letter down the alphabet to attract new interest in an old product. While this may be mostly true, D, which was never really promoted as a .net compilable language (it just kinda disappeared) had many flaws and never really caught on although some were enthusiastic about it (just like Bill Gates said we would write code for OS/2 for the next 10 years after its release).

The fundamentals and principals of the language are attractive, especially for OOP, but its ties to MS SQL and .net would only really make it attractive to Windows-specific applications, although its integration with ASP.net is unclear at this point. The mono project does a descent job of allowing .net code to run on non-windows platforms, and if M adheres to the same standards then after a given time M-written applications will be penguin-friendly as well if Microsoft can get around the MS SQL dependency.

Time will only tell how many will actually use the language outright before Microsoft finds a way to force programmers to use it, most likely by dropping support for some features in all languages except M to promote its usage. For now it appears that the only âoenon-visualâ C/C++ code encouraged for usage with Windows by Microsoft is in fact Windows itself, given the fact that Microsoftâ(TM)s programmers are on Microsoftâ(TM)s payroll. But if all newbie programmers learn these new languages, who will manage the billions of lines of C and C++ we currently use in the future, unless it is implied to be completely be rewritten? Iâ(TM)m sure the folks from the original Bell labs team would be interested in the answer to these questions as well.

Gotta love the slashdot effect.

Re:Story Mirror (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342409)

Karma whore.

More people should use D. (1)

Ant P. (974313) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342199)

It's a really nice-looking language, the major flaw is there's hardly anyone using it.

And unlike the article seems to be making out, it isn't made by MS at all.

Re:More people should use D. (2, Informative)

LingNoi (1066278) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342301)

I think the article is talking about a different D programming language, not the one from Digital Mars.

Re:More people should use D. (1)

AceofSpades19 (1107875) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342311)

There supposedly was an MS D before the digital mars D I think

That sound that you hear... (5, Insightful)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342201)

is the sound of a company dieing ... seriously. Yes, there will be those that call this post a troll, but look at the facts. What new product has MS announced that was not met with criticism and derision? What have they done in the last 5 years that improved the personal computing world? World leaders they no longer are. The MS way of doing things is no longer the ONLY way to do things.

The more they try to launch products which are locked into their own ecosystem, the more people laugh. There are entire countries that have rejected MS products, never mind the users who do so on their own. When entire countries and industries reject your products you have a serious problem. MS has not and is not addressing that problem. They seem to be blindly going down the same road that led to this situation without concern for how they will make money in the next decade.

It amounts to basically a rotting corpse on the sidewalk with a beggars cup held out. That is just my opinion, and it stems from the lack of anything good or beneficial coming from MS. YMMV

Re:That sound that you hear... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342243)

Well, to be fair, a lot of organizations and governments that have "rejected" Microsoft products did so only to win a better deal. Some have managed to go with Linux or some other OS, but most have ended up back in Microsoft's hands (albeit with a substantial discount.)

Ha ... captcha is "pathetic."

Re:That sound that you hear... (5, Insightful)

mindstormpt (728974) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342263)

is the sound of a company dieing ... seriously. Yes, there will be those that call this post a troll, but look at the facts. What new product has MS announced that was not met with criticism and derision? What have they done in the last 5 years that improved the personal computing world?

Windows Home Server actually received pretty good reviews, and it can be considered an improvement (mainly in the ease of use) on the current (non-geek) home server scene - the non-existing one that is. I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but I'm looking forward to it (and no, I'm not a fanboy, I actually run 3 servers at home: windows, linux and freebsd).

Then there's Microsoft Research, which actually comes up with some great stuff, though most of it is not (yet) implementable on a commercial scale.

So I'll call your post a troll. That's just my opinion too.

Re:That sound that you hear... (2, Insightful)

LingNoi (1066278) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342333)

As soon as I read "windows home server" my first thought was all the bad press about the file corruption [wikipedia.org] problems and tbh that's one of the worse things that could happen, to loose all your family photos.

Re:That sound that you hear... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342499)

"Power Pack 1 fixed this issue"

Re:That sound that you hear... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342545)

That's the downside of the popular internet - being able to loose your family photos on an unsuspecting public.

Re:That sound that you hear... (1)

miknix (1047580) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342363)

Then there's Microsoft Research, which actually clones up some great stuff, though most of it is not (yet) implementable on a commercial scale.

There, fixed it for you.

Re:That sound that you hear... (3, Insightful)

pieisgood (841871) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342367)

I don't know about you, but I would consider the Xbox 360 a rather large success for Microsoft. The 360 game pad? Best, in my opinion, on any system. Windows XP? Seems to be doing fairly well from my perspective. Adobe creating new products that give Windows an advantage over OSX because of hardware compatibility and support? That seems to be good for Microsoft. Certainly, Microsoft isn't doing them selves any favors, not until windows 7 is released with actual improvements. But, Software developers are developing for windows and continuing to keep Microsoft in a comfortable zone of Operating system dominance. TL;DR Microsoft isn't going anywhere.

Re:That sound that you hear... (4, Interesting)

MBCook (132727) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342443)

The 360 game pad really is very nice, but the D-pad is horrid. They need to improve it.

All said, I think MS is a pretty good company that has a ton of promise. The problem is they need to be broken up. They're like Sony was a few years ago (things have improved, a little)... they have no direction.

MS already have enough of their own languages (VB.net and C#), as well as others coming soon (F#), a shell they're inventing (PowerShell / Monad). They have interesting research products but they don't tend to make it to consumers most of the time.

MS has too much money to throw at projects like this that probably aren't that necessary. Some products linger around for years without enough help (Windows XP), many are constantly delayed (Vista was, we'll see it again). If the Mac Business Unit didn't release something named Office, you'd never know it was related to the "real" Office because the release schedules are so incredibly far apart.

If MS were split into a few little companies (maybe all under one big umbrella company) that could really make 'em fight against each other to prove how good they are, I think they could seriously improve their image.

I don't think Microsoft will last in it's current form. Something will have to change. A major strategy shift, a giant re-org, a slice across the product line (was having 7 different versions of Vista really a good idea?). Something will happen.

Re:That sound that you hear... (1)

Anthony_Cargile (1336739) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342511)

"If MS were split into a few little companies (maybe all under one big umbrella company) that could really make 'em fight against each other to prove how good they are, I think they could seriously improve their image. "

You mean like steve jobs's Macintosh team vs. Lisa team BS? Maybe it would actually get Balmer fired from MS like Jobs...

Re:That sound that you hear... (1)

m.ducharme (1082683) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342699)

I think GP meant something a little more dramatic, like cutting loose big chunks of the company along natural fault lines, like splitting off the OS, gaming, office software divisions, and making them sink or swim on their own merits as separate companies. I think this might actually be a decent idea, as it would force lagging and stagnant divisions/products to innovate, instead of relying on the success of other divisions to prop them up. It would also have the added benefit of mollifying anti-trust watchdogs around the world.

Of course this would be a pretty risky move, so I'm not holding my breath.

Re:That sound that you hear... (1)

rdnetto (955205) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342881)

The 360 game pad really is very nice, but the D-pad is horrid.

I agree that the controller is quite good, but the D-pad isn't really much of a problem - the only games that use it just use it as a set of hot keys, like the XYAB keys.

Re:That sound that you hear... (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342391)

is the sound of a company dieing ... seriously. Yes, there will be those that call this post a troll, but look at the facts. What new product has MS announced that was not met with criticism and derision? What have they done in the last 5 years that improved the personal computing world? World leaders they no longer are. The MS way of doing things is no longer the ONLY way to do things.

OK I'll bite, yes you are nothing but a troll. There market dominance is increasing in the server space and so is their profitability. Trolls like you only look at the bad stuff which any company that releases dozens of products a year will have, it is part of the business model. Hell their are still trolls that tout Vista as a failure even though it has 10 times the market share of OS.X and a 100 times the market share of desktop linux and makes them BILLIONS.

recent stuff that doesn't suck and is making them BILLIONS.
Sharepoint
Performance Point
SQL Server 2008
Visual Studio 2008
Windows Server 2008
their upcoming TMG server
Xbox 360
Windows Live Mesh

Do they make stuff that sucks, Sure. But that is far and away outweighed by the stuff that rocks and makes them billions.

Re:That sound that you hear... (3, Insightful)

Malevolyn (776946) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342593)

Hell their are still trolls that tout Vista as a failure even though it has 10 times the market share of OS.X and a 100 times the market share of desktop linux and makes them BILLIONS.

Market share != quality.

Re:That sound that you hear... (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342769)

  • SharePoint: never heard anything good about it, and no shop I've ever worked for has touched it
  • PerformancePoint: literally never heard of it before now
  • SQL Server 2008: ok, that's actually comparable to rivals, because everyone else's standards support is equally lousy
  • Visual Studio 2008: so amazing that every Microsoft dev I met uses gvim by preference
  • Windows Server 2008: who cares? the compelling Longhorn features were all dropped!
  • Xbox 360: when your quality problems reach the mainstream media, you've really screwed up
  • Threat Management Gateway, Live Mesh: we don't know yet whether these are going to suck, and they certainly aren't making BILLIONS when they aren't out yet

Re:That sound that you hear... (1)

compro01 (777531) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342899)

I'd contest the 360's place on that list. The failure rate has got to be hurting them, not to mention I'm pretty sure they sell the box itself at a loss and try to make it up on the games.

Re:That sound that you hear... (2, Informative)

Raenex (947668) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342469)

is the sound of a company dieing

Oh, my eyes. It's spelled dying.

Re:That sound that you hear... (2, Interesting)

mikael (484) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342475)

What have they done in the last 5 years that improved the personal computing world? World leaders they no longer are. The MS way of doing things is no longer the ONLY way to do things.

That is the main Microsoft strategy of dominating any field in the computer industry. With any established field in the computer industry, there are experienced veterans who will be reluctant to switch over to Microsoft products simple because Microsoft tells them to.

The solution is to create a "hive mind" culture where the collective experience of veterans are outnumbered by the vast number of entry-level graduates led by the Microsoft architectural teams. Then they can make the veterans appear out of date and take over the direction of the industry. The way to achieve this is to create a brand-new data format or language that graduates feel it is necessary to learn in order to find employment. So Microsoft has to keep pumping out all these "new" programming languages/API's.

Examples: C++ vs. Microsoft MFC / .NET
                    OpenGL vs. DirectX
                    Open Document Format vs. OOXML

Their technology may be stagnant (2, Interesting)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342647)

But their revenue is still increasing, and they still have a stranglehold on the majority of the market.

Re:That sound that you hear... (1)

DavidD_CA (750156) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342665)

Off the top of my head, from a non-geek (consumer) point of view in terms of sales and/or non-experience and buzz:

  • X-Box 360
  • Office 2007
  • Groove
  • Photosynth

And from a geek perspective:

  • Exchange Server 2007
  • Windows Server 2008
  • IE 8
  • Silverlight
  • Expression

And frankly, you can piss on Vista all you want, but I have yet to actually talk to a non-geek that's running Vista who doesn't like it.

Is that a fact? (1, Troll)

fullgandoo (1188759) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342739)

"is the sound of a company dieing . . ."

in your wet dream, most likely.

"in the last 5 years"

.NET has met with great success, C# along with VS is perhaps the most productive development environment, MS Office has a revamped interface that people really like once they've used it for a while, Vista is steadily gaining acceptance, IE7 has a better interface IMHO and is faster than Firefox or Safari, IIS has greatly eroded the dominance of Apache . . .

And Windows is on a majority of smartphones around the world.

World leaders they still are, no country has actually "rejected" MS. Their market value is still intact.

The only rotting corpse on the sidewalk is perhaps "Linux on the desktop".

But alternate views are not appreciated on Slashdot and I expect to be immediately modded down sub-zero.

Re:That sound that you hear... (1)

Stan Vassilev (939229) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342799)

What new product has MS announced that was not met with criticism and derision?

That's one of the problems of reading Slashdot and related sites a lot. But I don't blame you. You can see a similar "imaginary world" skewed perspectives from people watching FOX News alot.

As for the rest of us, developer tools, language design, is one of the areas where Microsoft unquestionable excels. And this article is incidentally about release in that area.

Re:That sound that you hear... (1)

Sentry21 (8183) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342833)

There's definitely a point here. It seems like people are fleeing the lock-in inherent in Microsoft's products, and Microsoft's reaction to that is to try and make products to lure people back into the lock-in, rather than make products that don't have it.

It reminds me of my cell carrier. They have a 'feature' which sends you a text message when you miss a call, which is bundled with Visual Voicemail and caller ID. The problem is that it's annoying, often hours behind reality, and no one wants it. In fact, everyone I've talked to (including employees) hate it. So many people called to complain about it and get it taken off their bundle that management started paying attention.

So when the problem is that a huge percentage of your customers hate a feature enough to demand it be disabled, the solution is apparently obvious: forbid customer service from disabling it. Effectively, they have forbidden their agents from giving the customer what they want, in the hopes that people will be happier when forced into something, rather than when given a choice to opt-out.

The same can be said of Microsoft. There are a lot of smart, talented people at Microsoft who are being paid to do anti-user things in anti-user ways. Management seems to believe that if A requires B, then they'll sell A and B and end up with happy customers that have an integrated solution. They don't seem to realize that the prevailing attitude is now 'if A requires B and I don't want B, I'll get A from somewhere else' and that's why Microsoft is losing out.

Re:That sound that you hear... (1)

rdnetto (955205) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342869)

What about the .NET Framework? I'd say that it is one of the easiest development platforms to use, especially since you can mix and match languages.

I wonder (1)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342209)

what Bond would say about this [wikipedia.org] .

The Alphabet (1)

flydude18 (839328) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342211)

They're going about this all wrong. The correct procedure is:

1. Invent and patent "A"
2. Claim prior art and start suing
3. This step you know unless you're new here.

Link to Register Article (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342227)

TFA was low on info and high on bias. The Register article is a little better. I couldn't quickly find any Microsoft release on the matter:

The Register [theregister.co.uk]

Re:Link to Register Article (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342295)

Troll

TFA wasn't a FA (2, Informative)

Bill Dog (726542) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342377)

Thanks for the link, that was a much better article. But most Slashdotters will prefer the less informative, more biased original chosen for featuring here. In fact, you can find way better articles just googling "programming language m oslo quadrant" than the blog post featured here. But his blog does have a neat look.

Re:TFA wasn't a FA (1)

Anthony_Cargile (1336739) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342431)

if you are familiar with macs (despite thecoffeedesk staff being huge FOSS users), click command-space on the keyboard for an easter egg they hid in the website a while back. Doesn't do anything yet AFAIK, but still kinda cool.

Actually, there already is a language called M (4, Informative)

kcokane (253536) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342237)

The Mumps Language was re-designated as the M language a number of
years ago. While Mumps isn't as widely used as some others, perhaps
the people in Redmond should do a literature search before they
name things.

see:

http://math-cs.cns.uni.edu/~okane/mumps.html [uni.edu]
http://www.cs.uni.edu/~okane/ [uni.edu]

Re:Actually, there already is a language called M (2, Informative)

kcokane (253536) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342279)

see also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUMPS [wikipedia.org]

Mumps? WTF! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342909)

Mumps? I seem to remember hearing about that before [thedailywtf.com] ...

Great (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342251)

So, will the next VS include F# and "M"?

Nowhere for Big Bird to Go Now (1)

PingPongBoy (303994) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342313)

So, M is for Microsoft.

But what can they possibly do after M? The language I, and then back to C, followed by R?

Re:Nowhere for Big Bird to Go Now (3, Funny)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342347)

Nope. The next languages will be "E", "R", "D" and back to "E" again.

MUMPS ?? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342351)

Seems to me there has been an M language for years, a descendant of MUMPS.

So what the heck is Microsoft trying to do here?

offtopic -- slashdot tags (1)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342381)

currently, this story is tagged as both "tech" and "!tech". Seriously, wtf? Isn't the !tag supposed to cancel out the original tag?

Sorry Microsoft, the name "M" is already taken (2, Informative)

martinde (137088) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342383)

And it's been taken [wikipedia.org] since 1984.

Re:Sorry Microsoft, the name "M" is already taken (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342487)

There is also an ANSI standard for another language named M a.k.a. MUMPS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUMPS

Re:Sorry Microsoft, the name "M" is already taken (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342565)

that's not "M", that's "Matlab".

you've got a five-letter difference there.

Oh, Joy. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342403)

Just wonderful.

ANOTHER language for which it is well-neigh impossible to do internet searches on.

Hey, why don't you add a few non-ASCII Unicode characters while you're at it? Bonus points if they don't have printable representations.

Re:Oh, Joy. (1)

J. Random Software (11097) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342949)

Great. Now I want to fork Whitespace [wikipedia.org] and create a ZERO WIDTH NO-BREAK SPACE compiler.

Lockin's - Microsoft crap (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342421)

Did you really expect Microsoft to support anything but Microsoft, they're all about lockin's thats it, that's the reason I wont touch Microsoft crap

"which only runs on Windows" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342435)

Well, for those too lazy to install WINE, that is.

Re:"which only runs on Windows" (1)

Malevolyn (776946) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342609)

But do you really want to run SQL Server in WINE?

Re:"which only runs on Windows" (0)

toby (759) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342781)

Do you really want to run a Microsoft product, period? Come on, it's 2008, not 1978.

Lock-ins (1)

primefalcon (1367925) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342447)

Seriously whoever thought Microsoft would support anyone non-Microsoft. Microsoft supports Microsoft, thats always been their way. That's one reason I'll never touch Microsoft software, and I'd also advise anyone else from touching the rubbish

touche (0)

toby (759) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342791)

And that's why they are irrelevant. Totally.

M ? (1)

giorgist (1208992) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342453)

Why not "F", that is what we gave Vista

G

Re:M ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342529)

maybe its M for 'massive fail'...?

Re:M ? (1)

cdrudge (68377) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342535)

I understand your attempt at humor, but they already have a "F" language, F#.

Traf-0-Data (1)

iminplaya (723125) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342473)

Whose stuff are they cloning this time?

TFA sucks and here's 3 serious reasons why (1)

johanatan (1159309) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342491)

In a software-centric world where we already have many, many languages to program in, from scripting to bytecode compiled languages, to frameworks on top of languages and embedded languages, now Redmond wants to bring ANOTHER language to the table, titled âMâ(TM) (for Microsoft?

What about machine-code compiled languages?

Microsoft has not said much other than that about the new language, but it will presumably be a compiled .net language (goodbye true native code), and from what Microsoft said, M is to strive to be cross-platformâ¦. with a catch.

I hardly think that M will be the end of 'true native code'. C# has already taken over 50% of Windows development and there are many other .NET languages to choose from (IronRuby, IronPython, F#, C++/CLI, VB.NET, to name a few). And besides that, M does not even compete with 'native code'!! It serves an entirely different purpose!!

The mono project does a descent job of allowing .net code to run on non-windows platforms, and if M adheres to the same standards then after a given time M-written applications will be penguin-friendly as well if Microsoft can get around the MS SQL dependency.

It's 'decent' not descent (though maybe that's a Freudian slip?!?). And, Microsoft certainly *can* get around the MS SQL dependency. [Or rather they *should* be able to get around problems they've code into their own platform!!]. But, this isn't a question of capability, it is (or should be) a question of will.

I think the better question is whether anybody else can get around it (certainly so) and will care to (probably not). M sounds rather lame.

Re:TFA sucks and here's 3 serious reasons why (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342651)

You fail to realize that the article actually favors machine code compiled languages over bytecode and scripting languages, for one, and they aren't saying 'M' is to replace native code, rather it will just make native coders more scarce because of the flurry of non-native languages around, e.g. all the scripting languages and .net bullshit (nothing but a cheap solution to DLL hell and to downplay the usage of undocumented features so the actual platform is easier to develop/fix). But I don't really see M take off like C# did, anyways unless the OOP people get orgasmic about modeling.

Re:TFA sucks and here's 3 serious reasons why (1)

johanatan (1159309) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342851)

Well, if it is possible for 'articles' to favor anything at all, they should say so. The quotes I pulled were pretty clear. If the author intended to say something else, then he should have. That's actually one of the reasons I thought the quality of the article was pretty low.

M burger (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342553)

I don't know why I this (http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/?f=y ) popped into my head when I heard the name M

Sell something else (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25342597)

Do not learn this language. Get your boss to build your project in something else. Develop a persuasive business case; sell something else to management. It's not about what the best technology is, it never has been. It's about which technology you can sell to your boss. Sell them something, anything else. We can get rid of these microsoft fucks. They're a bunch of fucking parasites.
Go read the press release. How are they selling this? Go find what you'd rather use. Sell it better.

+1 Exactly (1)

toby (759) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342775)

thanks.

A Lot of good stuff coming from Microsoft... (1)

NullProg (70833) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342673)

Too bad my version of WGA thinks I'm a thief.

I'll code programs for Linux/Mac/Web in an open language thankyou very much.

Enjoy.

At least it doesn't start with "X" (1)

DrVomact (726065) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342689)

I didn't RTFM, as I can't bring myself to care about a new programming language proposed by Microsoft, but I am buoyed by the fact that the new language begins with something other than the letter "X". In fact, I feel that this letter has been so overused that it should be officially deprecated by the W3C. Obviously, we have to "grandfather" existing X foo; renaming "XML" to "EKSML", "XSLT" to "EKSLT", and so forth would merely result in a much more valuable resource—the letter E—becoming raddled through overuse. But, read my lips, No more new Ekses!

This message has been brought to you by the letters [A-WYZa-wyz], who think we could get along just fine with a 25 letter alphabet.

M has been an ISO and ANSI-standard language (4, Informative)

dpbsmith (263124) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342711)

...for decades. It has been an official alternate name for MUMPS, ANSI standard X11.1, since 1995, while MUMPS itself goes back to 1966. It has been available for virtually every important platform, including but certainly not limited to Windows, for decades. I believe it is still the programming language used by the Veterans Administration. It is the foundation of Intersystem's corporations Cache development platform, and a (much-modified) form of it underlies the product line of Medical Information Technology (Meditech).

Meditech's revenues are something in the range of $350 million, Intersystems' were about $140 million in 2003. That ain't Microsoft but that ain't hay, either.

Regardless of what the legal rights and wrongs might be--I'm not sure whether the ISO and ANSI standards are still current--it just arrogant and tacky and lame for Microsoft to have appropriated this well-established, decades-old language name, particularly when they're so pugnacious about defending their own rights to an ordinary English plural noun.

New spy weapons (1)

gmuslera (3436) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342743)

My name is Bond, Crash Bond, with licence to kill you... and i will use for that this brand new blue screen that M gave me.

@summary: No Shit. (1)

toby (759) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342763)

When will everybody figure out that Microsoft has one strategy, one plan, one idea only: LOCK-IN. That's the Alpha and Omega, folks.

Gates' 3rd grade report card: "Does not play nicely with other children. Claimed to have earned $98,126 during the school year by 'monetizing' student notebooks but we decided not to investigate after William installed a new refrigerator and jacuzzi in the staff room. We hope your son will be with us for Grade 4!"

The grand plan (1, Interesting)

synthespian (563437) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342797)

M - the M language
I - Iron Python for .NET
C - C#
R - R# coming soon...
O - O# coming soon...
S - Silverlight
O - O# see above
F - F# right here, right now
T - T# real soon now...

M... as in Fritz Lang's movie (1)

McNihil (612243) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342855)

M as in murder... M as them being the mob or them feeling they are hit by mob mentality?

really... how many nails do Microsoft actually need in their stinkin' coffin?

The name is already taken (1, Redundant)

mysticgoat (582871) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342921)

The M language was standardized under that name around 1993 - 1995. Prior to that the language was known as MUMPS, which is an acronym for Massachusetts (General Hospital) Utility Muli Programming System, and goes back to 1967. Which makes it older than Unix. It is a language designed primarily for hospital related work. The US Veterans Administration was an early adopter, and has done a lot to promote MUMPS/M development.

I don't know what it is with Microsoft, but they keep stealing names that have been in extensive use in the Veterans Administration. Vista is the name of the interface that the VA put on its integrated software around 1995: it includes a Delphi front end that was first implemented on WinNT before even Win98 saw the light of day. The VA Vista was the first successful attempt to integrate all the various information systems a modern healthcare system needs, and by several measures it remains the most successful one. I was disappointed when Microsoft decided to call its newest OS by that name since I think that VA Vista deserves recognition on its merits, not obfuscation by what has turned out to be one biggest software duds ever.

I am really disappointed that Microsoft chose to call their product the M Language. Can they not google a simple name collision check?

Oh wait,,, I suppose they have to rely on their own search engine, huh?

Domain modeling environments (4, Interesting)

Stan Vassilev (939229) | more than 5 years ago | (#25342933)

Oslo and M appear to be taking a page out of the research Charles Simonyi has been doing at Microsoft, before leading to develop and advanced form of the technology at his own company Intentional Software [intentsoft.com] .

The basic idea here is that any bigger project can be made more maintainable and flexible at the same time, if the deveopers create a domain specific model for the given task, and let the end-users (for example accountants, drug store chemists, biologists, business owners) model the concrete behaviour of the application by manipulating that simplified and specialized language, often visually, the way an UML diagram or a spreadsheet works.

Unfortunately the linked article offers a little more than the usual "LOL, Microsoft sucks!" rant, which is somewhat expected from a blog where the iMac keyboard and iPhone are used as "design elements".

Anyway, I'd say this should be watched as it can mean model languages will finally enter mainstream, something that's been years in the making.

Related articles:

http://blogs.msdn.com/wenlong/archive/2008/09/07/net-4-0-wf-wcf-and-oslo.aspx [msdn.com]

"By mentioning model-driven programming, you will see a general modeling platform to be unveiled at PDC: Oslo. As Doug said, Oslo contains three simple things: a visual tool helps building models, a new textual DSL language helps defining models, and a relational repository that stores models. XAML represented workflows and services are special models in this domain. Check for more details in the postings from Doug and Don."

http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1430 [zdnet.com]

"'Schemas in the repository can be defined using this language, but they dont have to be,' Chappell said. Developers can still use any other tools with which theyd be comfortable to create schemas instead. Because the new language will generate SQL, and the repository can be accessed using standard SQL, no special languages will be required."

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