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Canadian NDP Leader Praises P2P Communities

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the need-something-to-do-between-hockey-games dept.

Government 169

newtley writes "The New Democrats' Jack Layton has become the first leader of a major Canadian political party to acknowledge the importance of the Internet during a federal election. He's using YouTube to carry his message specifically to the online community, launching it on P2Pnet. 'We don't want to see hidden fees and gouging and service slow-downs all in the interests of promoting the objectives of certain large corporations,' Layton says." Other party members have also spoken out against increased internet regulation. We've been following the Canadian net neutrality debate for quite some time.

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Wrong Tag (3, Funny)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345417)

Need to include ' its a trap'..

Re:Wrong Tag (2, Informative)

canuck57 (662392) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345653)

It is a trap and not a joke. The NDP have never left less government debt in their terms of office. Provinces like Saskatchewan have 11 billion dollars in debt. While that many not sound like much, they have less than 1 million people to support it. They love credit spending like no other.

Most experienced Canadians know NDP as socialists. Nationalization is a key plug of theirs.

Laytoon would say anything to get elected be he mean it or not. World readers need to know it is routine that Canadian candidates lie often.

Re:Wrong Tag (0)

pipatron (966506) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345683)

That's about $10000 per person, much less than the U.S.

Traditionally, democrats/left-ish governments spend less while taking in more, thus reducing the debts, while right-wing capitalist governments tend to spend more. (what they don't spend on health care they spend on prisons and "national security")

Re:Wrong Tag (5, Informative)

Erioll (229536) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345711)

Except of course for the Alberta Progressive Conservative party, which reduced taxes, eliminated the deficit AND the provincial debt (it is now completely gone).

What the USA calls "right-wing" may not act like it at all, but in Canada generally fiscal conservatism means such, because we have an actual example of such that happened, not just theory like down south.

Re:Wrong Tag (1, Informative)

PIBM (588930) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345869)

They might have gotten rid of the monetary debt, but by how much did they damage their environment ? What would have happened to the debt if they would not have had Harper get rid of kyoto ?

Exploiting their petroleum sand like this, with almost no regulations, got them tons of money. Any other responsible governement should not have allowed that to go through.

Re:Wrong Tag (3, Informative)

IgnoramusMaximus (692000) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345877)

Oh yea, the Alberta Conservatives were, in their great, millions of years spanning foresight, entirely responsible for putting all that oil in all that sand in Alberta and then for driving global oil prices through the roof only so that they can rake in billions in royalties ... no?

But then again this is, and has always been, on par for the so-called "Conservatives" world-wide: take with great fanfare all credit for things you had absolutely nothing to do with, while at the same time trying to project blame for everything you've fucked up onto others.

Re:Wrong Tag (1)

gmack (197796) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346371)

Try BC then. The BC Liberal party (made up entirely of former social credit conservatives) inherited a province from the NDP that was doing poorly economically yet managed to both put the economy back on track and balance the budget.

Re:Wrong Tag (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25346751)

Try BC then. The BC Liberal party (made up entirely of former social credit conservatives) inherited a province from the NDP that was doing poorly economically yet managed to both put the economy back on track and balance the budget.

Oh yes, by cutting back, privatising and illegally (according to the WLO) tearing up the contracts of healthcare workers, teachers and (guilty!) college lecturers.

Meanwhile, we have spent millions - with far more to come - on a totally pointless party for the world's elite skiers, iceskaters et. al. called the Winter Olympics.

And our finance minister is so shrewd that she keeps making errors estimating the surplus - errors in the billions of dollars.

Roll on May next year and our chance to get rid of these neocon bastards.

Re:Wrong Tag (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25347393)

It's a lot easier to do that when you can extract money out of the ground. Give us a break. Alberta would be worse off than

Re:Wrong Tag (2, Interesting)

Have Brain Will Rent (1031664) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346271)

$11 Billion divided among 1 Million people is more like $11,000 per person.

The example he is using is for the debt created in one province by a provincial political party. The equivalent of the debt of a state in the U.S. - is it really common in the U.S. to see state debt at $11,000/person?

The left of center governments in Canada typically create huge debt while the right of center governments create smaller debt. The previous left of center federal government (known as the "Liberals") ran up a huge debt - they after heavy pressure from international financial entities and from the Canadian people they paid alot of it off. Not by fiscal discipline but rather by raising taxes and off-loading costs to provincial governments - not by cutting program spending. The current federal government (known as the "Conservatives") actually cut spending, lowered taxes to people and business and paid off a significant portion of the national debt.

It's been a similar story at the provincial level.

Re:Wrong Tag (1)

pureevilmatt (711216) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346747)

Lies. The previous Liberal government consistently operated under the largest budget surpluses in Canadaian history. It started in 1998. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/09/28/record-budget-surplus-in-_n_66271.html [huffingtonpost.com] It is only in the last few years that the Conservative government has begun pissing that surplus away.

Re:Wrong Tag (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25345719)

The NDP have never left less government debt in their terms of office.

Nationalization is a key plug of theirs.

Both of these statements are bald-faced lies.

Re:Wrong Tag (2, Informative)

Have Brain Will Rent (1031664) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346337)

If the first was a lie then you could have easily disproven it by giving an example of an NDP government that left office with less government debt than when they took office. As to the second I agree that government ownership is frequently a plank of the NDP platform - they've downplayed it for a long time now because they realize how unpopular it was.

Re:Wrong Tag (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25345835)

I'm glad you remember the last time NDP was in office. NDP is the 'union party', or the socialist party, and many of the people I talk to that are voting NDP are union members (who have everything to gain) or students too young to recall the horrible effect the NDP had on our country.

Re:Wrong Tag (1, Flamebait)

abigor (540274) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346029)

Absolutely true. I would also offer up the example of the BC NDP party, and the unbelievably poor state in which they left this province. The NDP are fundamentally corrupt because of their close ties to the trade unions.

Re:Wrong Tag (1)

Have Brain Will Rent (1031664) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346297)

They would be the party that held bingo games purportedly for charity but the money ended up paying for NDP expenses. And they had the Premier who was quoted as saying "It's like we're shovelling money off the back of a truck!"

Re:Wrong Tag (1)

Wacky_Wookie (683151) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346375)

Poor state?! Look what the Liberals ended up doing: A Carbon Tax! I laugh at all the conservatives who voted for 'em. They same ones who are wining about the ferry prices after the Libs went and Privatized it(!?). Yes the BC-NDP were a little too close to the unions, but the unions are dying off now. What we really need is an NDP-LIB merger. Or, even better a new party positioned between the two on the electoral spectrum. Fuck Harper.

Re:Wrong Tag (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25346523)

The NDP aren't just close to the unions, the unions have a say in everything the party does. 25% of the seats at NDP conventions belong to unions (they've changed the forumla in BC, but I think it's still this way for the federal wing). Many NDP candidates are labour movement/union bureaucrats. And to top it off, almost all unions, at least in BC, donate to the NDP from their members' union dues no matter what party the members actually support. The NDP is not a progressive party because they will always bend to the will of the unions, whose will is not always conducive to the greater good.

Re:Wrong Tag (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25346479)

Amen! They ran here in BC on a platform of socialism and equality for all and ruined our economy in 4 years. Liberals fixed it in 2.

Duane Nickull

its a north american thing apparently (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346711)

look pal, youre the only continent that is stuck with that mccarthian scarecrowing shit about left.

entire europe is on social democracy, and it already got past north america in terms of economy and life standard, - hell, in every aspect of life.

get this shit into your head -> in life EVERYthing needs BALANCE. without balance, everything flops. economy is not exempt from this basic rule.

'socialism boooooooooo' 'nationalization booooooooo' 'government intervention booooooooooo'

please, its 2008. stop it.

Re:Wrong Tag (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25346723)

that is completely WRONG. The saks NDP had the longest running balanced budget streak in Canadian history, over 10 years. And the current debt for Sask is Around 5 billion, considerably less then your made up number but unlike you I don't ask people to take my word for it (check the wikipedia). OH and by the way the NDP are the ones who came up with the whole health care for everyone. Harper is the one who is saying anything to get back in and he blew the surplus he was left on nothing. I suggest you do your homework before opening your mouth and pew more lies

Re:Wrong Tag (1)

Viceroy Potatohead (954845) | more than 5 years ago | (#25347659)

The NDP have never left less government debt in their terms of office.

Of course, Gary Doer [wikipedia.org] in Manitoba has had a balanced budget every year for the last decade, as well as creating a rainy-day fund of hundreds of millions, but don't let that stop you from making black and white statements.

Laytoon[sic] would say anything to get elected [whether] he mean[t] it or not. World readers need to know it is routine that Canadian candidates lie often.

AFAICT, that's par for the course in Canada, the US, and the UK, and I suspect pretty much every other democracy. The Liberals did fairly well during the election a few years ago in part due to Sheila Copps promising to do away with the GST, and we all know how well that turned out. The Conservatives have a similar history, such as this [theglobeandmail.com] , or these [thestar.com] . Federally speaking, we have a lot more reason to distrust Conservative or Liberal election promises, since they have both actually formed the government and then broken those promises, while the NDP have never been in that position. That's not to say that they wouldn't, but it seems strange you'd single out Layton, since his party is the only one of the three that have never actually done what you suggest he would do.

Mandatory internet filtering (was Re:Wrong Tag) (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25345769)

The trap is mandatory internet filtering [www.ndp.ca] (see the last paragraph in section 1):

We will:
[...]
Implement new legislation to require all Canadian Internet Service Providers to prevent the publication or proliferation of child sexual abuse content on the Internet.

Generally, countries implement this by using a blacklist which:

  • blocks entire sites (by DNS or IP) rather than just the forbidden content, thereby blocking legitimate content as well
  • is secret, and maintained by an unaccountable organisation
  • can be abused to block legitimate speech [effi.org]
  • is unverifiable: assuming it works perfectly, nobody can access the listed sites to check whether they really contain child pornography
  • doesn't work unless you're in a police state: things like international VPNs, proxies, TOR, and private DNS servers can't be blocked in a free country

Re:Wrong Tag (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25346447)

That dumb-ass Jack Layton can't even spell P2P, let alone know anything about it. He should get out of politics, stay home and bang his chink wife, for all we care!

Brain? (2, Funny)

WillKemp (1338605) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345421)

Strewth! A politician with a brain? Somebody vote for him, please!

Re:Brain? (1)

x1n933k (966581) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345715)

Unfortunately nobody will.

I have to admit I am no political guru but when you look at a party who actually has plans, advocates them well, has a leader who communicates fluently and can debate smartly I wonder why these guys haven't had better numbers. I suppose it is because Jack Layton doesn't attack the other parties in the media like the other leaders so the majority of voters seems to overlook them. He is simply not in the press shouting about a past scandal or taxes.

Honestly out of the three 'major' non-conservative parties(Liberal, Green, NDP), the NDP have been the best choice for Canadians but the average Joe and Jane Canadian seem to get caught up in the Liberal-Conservative arcade.

They won't win in my area because of Gilles Duceppe is the Bloc representative here, but I'm hoping the momentum will keep growing for them.

[J]

Re:Brain? (1)

Have Brain Will Rent (1031664) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346407)

OMG - get your tv fixed! It's filtering out all those NDP ads attacking other parties! It must have also filtered out the televised debates where the NDP leader was attacking the Conservative leader!

The funny thing is that watching the debates the only leader who looked like a real competitor to Mr. Harper was Mr. Duceppe, who was passionate and obviously intelligent. It's too bad his party is based on breaking up Canada into two independent countries.

Re:Brain? (2, Informative)

bryxal (933863) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345897)

Actually... As much as I agree with his tech views. Most of his plans are completely idealistic and borderline delusional. The leader is also a scummy politician. After a while you will see that he is an opportunist that only cares about what the media will give out and not the actual issues and doesn't take the time to try to explain a in depth analysis and how to actually solve it. Instead he spews populist jib jab on most topics. The only reason he is getting this right is because of Charlie Angus one of the Best supporters of Net Neutrality and Copyright Reform that is part of his party. So to recap: Charlie Angus = Good Jack Layton (leader) = Bad

Re:Brain? (1)

schon (31600) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345999)

Most of his plans are completely idealistic and borderline delusional.

I don't know about that - although I haven't read anything in-depth, the cursory readings seem OK. Can you provide some examples?

The leader is also a scummy politician.

On this, I wholeheartedly agree with you. While well-spoken, he's a sociopath who refuses to accept responsibility for his own actions, and tries to take credit for the work of others (besides being prone to hyperbole.)

Examples: The last election was triggered when the NDP (led by Layton) voted non-confidence against a Liberal finance bill. The election happened over the holidays, and in a press conference Layton blamed the Liberals, saying that they "forced" him to trigger the election. (Rather than accepting responsibility for it, and saying that he couldn't vote in favour because of his conscience.)

During the English leader's debate, he said that "no NDP government in Canada has ever run a deficit." Conveniently ignoring the fact that the provincial and federal parties are completely different, essentially sharing only their names.

If the NDP had a decent leader, I would probably vote for them this election, but with Layton at the helm, fat chance.

Re:Brain? (1)

abigor (540274) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346063)

We don't have a great choice of leaders at all in this election:

Harper: uncharismatic, suspiciously socially conservative

Elizabeth May: an American(!) and devout Christian

Dion: seems weak, plus the Liberals are corrupt and need a time-out

Layton: commented that Punjabi should be made Canada's third official language - enough said

Re:Brain? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25346199)

If I may add some thigns to this list

Harper: uncharismatic, suspiciously socially conservative

He's also a bit of an idiot and an asshole in his private life, this little tidbit DID come via a "freind of a freind" but its a reliable "freind of a freind."

Elizabeth May: an American(!) and devout Christian

WAS an American, she was 18 when the family moved to Nova Scotia and has spent 36 years as a Canadian, I think that's long enough dont you? Also she may be a Christian but she doesn't make a point of it. A perfect example being her stance on abortion, she doesn't personally support it but she acknowleges the need for it and therefore politically supports it.

Dion: seems weak, plus the Liberals are corrupt and need a time-out

He's a smart guy but unfortunately the language barrier is a bit of an issue and one which the Conservatives are quite prepared to mock him for. (To their discredit)

Layton: commented that Punjabi should be made Canada's third official language - enough said

Don't know much about him and what I do, I don't like.

Re:Brain? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25346243)

LOL you can't even spell 'friend', and you expect us to give you enough credibility to accept your fourth party source that he's a an asshole in his private life? Big deal, I'm an asshole too but I do a great job.

Re:Brain? (1)

Brickwall (985910) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346587)

He's a smart guy but unfortunately the language barrier is a bit of an issue and one which the Conservatives are quite prepared to mock him for. (To their discredit)

Oh please - the French press didn't crucify Joe Clark for his lousy French? Even the English papers typically prefaced any mention of his French with "awkward" or "clumsy". And Dion doesn't appear all that bright to me - his "Green Shift" is a ridiculous policy - and in a widely distributed clip of his appearance on ATV, he didn't understand a simple question, and had to have an aide explain it to him.

Re:Brain? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25346975)

"Green Shift" is a ridiculous policy

What is ridiculous about putting a cost on emitting CO2? Currently the emitters benefit from being able to emit CO2 but the costs are felt by everyone. This is privatized gain with socialized risk. Putting a cost on emitting CO2 helps to eliminate this moral hazard.

in a widely distributed clip of his appearance on ATV, he didn't understand a simple question

The interviewer's question mixed present and past tenses in Dion's second language. When Dion asked for clarification, the interviewer's responses were sloppy and unclear [thestar.com] . Perhaps Dion should have simply interpreted the question however he liked but as with the Quebec issue, Dion apparently prefers to have a clear question before answering.

Re:Brain? (1)

Rary (566291) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346287)

Dion: seems weak, plus the Liberals are corrupt and need a time-out

This is the problem I have with Canadians. The Chretien Liberals were definitely corrupt, and definitely needed a time-out. So what did we, the Canadian people, do to punish them for their corruption? We inflicted Stephen Harper on ourselves -- not to mention such gems as Stockwell Day, Jason Kenney, and Maxime Bernier (at least he's out of the picture now).

Today's Liberal party is mostly devoid of the people who were involved in the Sponsorship scandal. Sure, Dion seems a little weak, but have you seen Stephen Harper? We need to save ourselves from the "Reform Party dressed as the Conservative Party".

Please, end the time-out already.

Re:Brain? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25346621)

You make it sound as if Harper is playing a fiddle while Canada burns. The truth is Canada is in great shape at the moment. Yes there are social issues on which the Conservative party is wrong on, but if it were another party in power they would be faced with the same problem, just with different issues.

I happen to believe that the level of taxation in Canada is more harmful to our overall quality of life than the social programs those taxes pay for are helpful. I want lower taxes. I want to keep more of the money I earn. I'll be voting conservative, and I'll do it again next election. The liberals could win me over if they wanted to concentrate on expanding civil liberties. That's not what their platform is about though. At least not this time around.

Re:Brain? (1)

Have Brain Will Rent (1031664) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346435)

On this, I wholeheartedly agree with you. While well-spoken, he's a sociopath who refuses to accept responsibility for his own actions, and tries to take credit for the work of others (besides being prone to hyperbole.)

Sociopath? Maybe... he does kind of make my skin crawl when I watch him speak... there's definitely something off about about him.

Re:Brain? (1)

Brickwall (985910) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346545)

Oh, please. Don't you see Layton's TV ads where he claims he will hire 1,000 doctors? Forget that health care is a provincial matter; just remember it takes 7 years to train a doctor, so building new spaces at universities (Layton's "plan") won't have any effect until 2015. The Tories have a much more practical plan. They will make it easier for foreign professionals to have their credentials recognized. That will increase the number of new doctors almost immediately, and it doesn't cost as much.

Layton is not a good person - he and wife Olivia were both city councilors in Toronto, and they lived in a city owned co-op even though they were pulling in more than $100k/year. That meant a poor family was denied that apartment. He claims to be for the little guy, just not where his own bank account is involved.

Re:Brain? (1)

schon (31600) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346901)

Oh, please

Please what? Sorry, I'm not sure what you're saying here. You seem to think I disagree with you somehow.

Don't you see Layton's TV ads where he claims he will hire 1,000 doctors?

No, all I've seen are his attack ads against Harper. But yes, that does seem pretty far-fetched.

The Tories have a much more practical plan. They will make it easier for foreign professionals to have their credentials recognized.

What does the Tory plan have to do with NDP? (Besides the fact that they've been in power for two years, and haven't actually implemented anything.)

Layton is not a good person

Yeah, that's why I used the term sociopath to describe him.

Re:Brain? (1)

urbanriot (924981) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346105)

I agree that he's a 'scummy politician.' He's considerably pandering to what Joe Every-man wants, without considering or acknowledging the economic side effects or tax requirements. He might come off as honest to some, but I see a man taking advantage of every situation, and saying what people want to hear.

open source (1)

alexandreracine (859693) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346039)

Yep, and their website http://www.ndp.ca/ [www.ndp.ca] is using Drupal! :)

New Democrats? (3, Informative)

DirtySouthAfrican (984664) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345423)

New Democratic Party, isn't it? We're not American, or did I not get the memo?

Re:New Democrats? (1)

creepynut (933825) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346331)

Haven't you ever seen a TV ad with Jack Layton?
He generally finishes up his little talks with "Vote for Change, Vote for the New Democrats"

Re:New Democrats? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25347101)

You didn't get the memo. They're typically referred to as the New Democrats here in speech and in the press. The poster is Canadian (@shaw.ca) like me, and the reference comes right after a healine that starts "Canadian NDP Leader". There's no confusion.

Not to pick on you personally, just your post shouldn't have gotten Score 4 Informative, so needs a reply to help the mods out.

Dion is such a whiney milquetoast (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25345445)

He'd never do anything this decisive. And Harper's just Bush in drag. Too bad the rest of the NDP leadership is composed of 5 year olds and the Greens have a fiscal position that makes the conservatives look like socialists and the bloc Q insist on being so Franch.

Canadian politics are a total mess.

RS

Jack Layton (4, Insightful)

nightfire-unique (253895) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345461)

I've been a Liberal party supporter my entire life. It ended the day the walked out on the omnibus crime bill vote to prevent the government from falling.

I always like Jack Layton but I didn't spend much time reviewing his party, their voting record, or his speeches. After I decided to avoid the Liberals last year (or earlier this year.. can't remember) I started doing some real research. And I have to say, he is the first politician (at that level) I've actually admired. He speaks with a level of candor and immense credibility that is so rare.

He seems to genuinely care about his fellow man, and want to solve conflicts rather than fan the flames.

In short, he's precisely the opposite of this neocon wannabe we currently have running the country. Jack, if you happen to be reading this (and it wouldn't surprise me) you've got my vote. :)

Re:Jack Layton (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25345477)

You're claiming that Jack Layton doesn't want to "fan the flames"?!?

I contend that you sir, do not know Jack.

Re:Jack Layton (1)

Jorophose (1062218) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345535)

I too am a long-time liberal (but just because we have a liberal MP and MPPs) and love Jack Layton.

I don't like the NDP (sorry, too socialist for me) but he is an honest, hard-working man. I never liked him before because during the debates in the last elections he was constantly going on "Oh vote NDP we're different we're better!" etc. While watching the french debates (I was planning on watching Joe Biden beat up Palin) though he changed for the better; although he's no Duceppe in terms of slamming everyone in the debates he's getting there.

Now, if only Jack Layton ran for Liberal, then I'd vote for him. ;P

(or NDP in my riding... you can easily tell everyone except for the liberal and possibly green candidates were shoe-horned by their friends and are really terrible.)

Re:Jack Layton (2, Funny)

pureevilmatt (711216) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346841)

Patrick Stewart + Tom Selleck = Jack Layton = Vote NDP

Re:Jack Layton (1)

mpetch (692893) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345569)

He seems to genuinely care about his fellow man, and want to solve conflicts rather than fan the flames.

I guess "fellow man" is anyone in Canada who lives outside of Alberta.

Re:Jack Layton (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25345655)

That seems reasonable.

Re:Jack Layton (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25345713)

Alberta is the new Toronto. Deal with it.

Re:Jack Layton (1)

thestreetmeat (1055390) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346035)

Alberta has 28 ridings, and they're all going conservative. Nobody cares about you at this point in the election. I suggest you hurry up and separate, so you can save your annual $300 (!!) per capita in transfer payments.

Re:Jack Layton (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25345589)

I met Jack at a candidate nomination meeting before the last election. We had a good chat about fair-use, platform neutrality, and anti-circumvention clauses.

Re:Jack Layton (1)

arthurpaliden (939626) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345611)

Yes you have to admire a man who lives in govenment supported low income housing while he and his wife have a combined income of over $100,000 dollars a year.

Re:Jack Layton (3, Informative)

Kinetix303 (471831) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345951)

Bollocks. He lived in a mixed income co-operative housing unit that uses the higher rent charged to high-income earners to subsidize the costs of the lower-income units. It was not government subsidized housing. In fact, the housing unit would have failed financially if there were no higher income earners living there. You clearly have no understanding of how mixed incoming cooperative housing actually works, or you're just trying to toss an already much-discredited 15 year old smear with no basis in reality.

Re:Jack Layton (1)

arthurpaliden (939626) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346023)

Is that not how politics works in this day and age. After all is that not what he himself is doing with regard to the Conservitive and Liberal parties and their leaders?

Re:Jack Layton (1)

Kinetix303 (471831) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346045)

No, it isn't, and even if it was, that's not justification.

Re:Jack Layton (1)

arthurpaliden (939626) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346211)

You mean to tell me that Mr. Laton is not picking items out of the other two leaders pasts and using them out of context and applying inuendo in order to discredit them. I sugest that you watch a few of the NDP ads and liten ot his retoric.

Re:Jack Layton (1)

brady8 (956551) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345633)

He is a very sincere and genuine leader who I would really love to lead our country.

It's too bad though that his party's platform is so far out in left field that it scares me. Some good ideas in there, such as their technology platform in general. But their protectionist policies would pretty much destroy our economy, including lending support (using my tax dollars) to unsustainable and uneconomical jobs for Canadian autoworkers, ending the North American Free Trade Agreement, and generally throwing money at various industries in exchange for union votes in the next election.

Re:Jack Layton (1)

gmack (197796) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345681)

He seems to genuinely care about his fellow man, and wants to solve conflicts rather than fan the flames.

Jack is nothing more than a walking soundbite. I lost any respect I had for him last election when he made a big show of handing a coin to a pan handler. As someone who has actually worked with street people I can tell you that the absolute worst thing you can do for them is give them money.

And if he really was about solving conflicts he would not be so eager to accuse his opponents of "hidden agendas". He has spent more time name calling than any other party leader.

I'm at a complete loss on who to vote for this election. Harper has done a decent job fiscally but I can't vote for someone who tried to pass a Canadian DCMA. Dion is an idiot who thinks hes Obama and wants to rearrange the tax system in a really stupid way. Layton just comes off cross between a used car salesmen and the uncle from the Adam's Family and someone really needs to inform him that "eat the rich" is bad fiscal policy.

Re:Jack Layton (1)

Superpants (930409) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345773)

I agree, he seems very disingenuous. He has all these plans, but no way to implement them. It's like the election is one big ego trip for him. Harper was just at the right place at the right time. The economy would have done well with or without him, simply because none of the other candidates have the gumption to change the status quo. While Elizabeth May does talk out of her ass every now and then, she does have a freshness to her that is a nice change from the rotting bucket of chum everyone else can claim to reside in.

Re:Jack Layton (1)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345863)

The economy would have done well with or without him

As evidenced by the fact that it's clear, particularly after the debate, that his economic policies are to just let things kinda tick along and let whatever happens happen.

I agree about May, though. I think she was one of the best performing politicians in the debate (specifically the English language debate, which is the one I watched). Layton, by contrast, spent the entire time doing his best to paint Harper as the spawn of the devil, and neglected to actually outline what his own party would do. I was, to say the least, unimpressed...

Re:Jack Layton (1)

Have Brain Will Rent (1031664) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346485)

As evidenced by the fact that it's clear, particularly after the debate, that his economic policies are to just let things kinda tick along and let whatever happens happen.

Part of letting things tick along is letting the Bank Of Canada do its job the way it is intended to do - such as putting out a 0.5% drop in the bank rate which was coordinated with the equivalent entities in other countries doing the same.

Re:Jack Layton (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25347195)

Monetary policy is only half the equation. In more serious economic times, fiscal policy should also be adjusted. Unfortunately deficits are so unpopular in Canada that none of the major parties will allow for a fiscal deficit as economic stimulus during an economic slowdown.

Re:Jack Layton (1)

Brickwall (985910) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346691)

I agree about May, though. I think she was one of the best performing politicians in the debate

Not a chance - she was rude, hectoring, and constantly interrupting Harper. Harper, in contrast, was polite, and calm. I thought the purpose of a debate was to give one person the right to speak at any time, and since I was on my debating team at high school, I know whereof I speak. The three wannabes were all terrible. Duceppe actually impressed me; it's too bad he wants to break up the country.

Re:Jack Layton (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25347505)

Dion is an idiot

I haven't seen anything that suggests to me that any of the major party leaders are idiots. Some of them may have some unintelligent candidates in some ridings, but I get the impression that the leaders are all fairly intelligent.

who thinks hes Obama

Strange that you get this from Dion. I would think this description applies more to Layton, and Googlefight [googlefight.com] agrees.

and wants to rearrange the tax system in a really stupid way

What is stupid about putting a cost on emitting CO2? Currently the emitters benefit from being able to emit CO2 but the costs are felt by everyone. This is privatized gain with socialized risk. Putting a cost on emitting CO2 helps to eliminate this moral hazard.

Re:Jack Layton (1)

HungSoLow (809760) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345989)

The problem with Layton is his stance on the welfare state: I'm all for free health care, higher taxes for the rich, social safety nets - but his policies punish people who work and earn their achievements. He would limit education scholarships and make them taxable and simultaneously dump more money into disabilities and unemployment welfare. I think people should have a safety net if they become incapacitated but it needs to be genuine. I know quite a few people on disability, and they deserve nothing they're receiving - they're merely discomforted like many people who work despite their problems. The canadian government can save a bundle if they cut off these lazy sacs. As a final example, if you go on disability and doctors determine that an operation can fix the problem, you have the right to avoid the (free) operation AND stay on disability. That is an enormous crock of shit.

Re:Jack Layton (1)

smartin (942) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346131)

For those of you with short memories, the last time that the NDP had any real power (at least in Ontario) was with Bob Ray and they ran the province into the ground.

Don't be fooled by a party full of idiots that happen to have the correct viewpoint on one issue. The last thing that Canada needs is the NDP in charge.

Re:Jack Layton (1)

Goalie_Ca (584234) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346775)

They killed BC as well. In fact, they were so disliked they only got 2 seats in the following provincial election. The BC liberals totally dominated the legislature.

Re:Jack Layton (1)

schon (31600) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346329)

I started doing some real research. And I have to say, he is the first politician (at that level) I've actually admired.

Then either your research is poor, or you're easily swayed by emotion rather than logic.

He speaks with a level of candor and immense credibility that is so rare.

Credibility?!?! OK, you really haven't done any research. He's prone to hyperbole ("Harper wants to quit his job as PM") and can't accept responsibility for his own actions. ("It's not my fault - the Liberals *made* me do it!")

want to solve conflicts rather than fan the flames.

Oh, come on. All he's ever done is fan the flames!

Re:Jack Layton (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25346663)

At best Jack Layton comes across as a naive idiot. To me he gives the same impression as a smarmy used car salesman.
Before voting NDP, if you are from Ontario, try remembering what the provincial NDP under Bob Rae (now a liberal) did, and the resulting painful cuts by Harris that were needed to fix it.

Bravo (0, Flamebait)

MonsterTrimble (1205334) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345489)

Jack & I have something we agree on.

But I still think he's an idiot and would wreck the country if elected.

Re:Bravo (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25345537)

I'm likely voting NDP not because I want them to form a government, but because I want them to be the opposition.

The opposition is there to hold the government accountable for its actions, and sadly, the Liberals have done a terrible job of that lately.

Re:Bravo (1)

dexmachina (1341273) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345797)

Strategic voting never works. That's how the Ontario NDP under Bob Rae ending up as the provincial government in 1990. The Liberals left him with a $700 million deficit. His brilliant economics turned it into a $9.1 billion deficit. The NDP are like a backseat driver who, when you finally get fed up and let him take the wheel, realizes he doesn't know how to drive.

Re:Bravo (2, Informative)

thestreetmeat (1055390) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345947)

People seem to have very distorted memories when it comes to Rae's government in the early 90s. The NDP took over just as the economy was heading into the worst recession since the great depression. His government did what pretty much every other government does in a recession - increase spending to break the cycle. I seriously doubt the Liberals would have done anything different. If Rae did anything wrong, it was to neglect his main support on the left with his wage cuts and mandatory unpaid vacation measures. Measures aimed at reducing the deficit.

Of course, once the voters put Mike Harris in power, he simply had 16,000 public servants laid off. 6 of one, half-dozen of the other.

Re:Bravo (1)

kick_in_the_eye (539123) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346643)

Yeah, that is how Ontario had an NDP majority. Be careful on Tuesday.

Re:Bravo (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25345767)

I'm sorry but this is Canada, and so far no SINGLE MAN can be responsible for wrecking the country. Though that might change if Harper keeps spending. Give me a few actually reasons to believe you and I'll reconsider my opinion.

Right now we have a government doing a lot a business with a country that isn't doing well and what do we get? Nothing but a sinking dollar, the US is a sinking ship and we keep investing towards them. If the Conversative government had balls it would be making Canada more of a powerhouse instead of playing poker with their American business.

Re:Bravo (1)

Have Brain Will Rent (1031664) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346543)

That's got nothing to do with Harper or the Conservatives - it has been the problem with every federal government for decades. Canada has an economy almost totally tied to one other country. It has always needed to diversify and generate more trade with other countries. Mind you that wouldn't have done much good with the current situation - since every country seems to be going into the tank Canada's position as an exporter would be done in no matter what this time around. Canada is in a good situation relative to others because the banking system is more stable and because the national debt per capita is quite low, compared to say the US. Canada also had huge job creation numbers (just released) so that even with an influx of employment seekers and the current economic maelstrom the unemployment rate didn't go up.

Re:Bravo, and a BIG finger to Trudeau (1)

mcneely.mike (927221) | more than 5 years ago | (#25347023)

Before Trudeau, we pretty much had balanced budgets. To get re-elected (ie: buy votes), he spent money and borrowed. He used our credit cards to buy us goodies, and we were to stupid (naive) back then to understand that "great uncle Pierre" who was buying us all these goodies was actually putting us into deep debt. If any single man wrecked this country it was Pierre "give em the finger, fuddle duddle" Trudeau, the worst Prime Minister Canada has ever had. (No pirouette being done here.)

Video Professor Look-a-Like (1)

mpetch (692893) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345541)

Does video professor have a P2P course? ;-)

What's with the P2Pnet logo? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25345581)

Why are the people in the P2Pnet logo waving handguns around? I have nothing against proper use of handguns, but what is that in the logo?

Yeah, but... (1)

WelcomeOurOverlords (1309475) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345619)

...guys, if you vote NDP, the TERRORISTS WILL HAVE WON!

How Ironic (0, Flamebait)

dskoll (99328) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345621)

Use of modern P2P technology by an old-style socialist party whose policies have been discredited since the 1970's.

Re:How Ironic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25345911)

... he says, in the midst of the greatest international government intervention in history.

Re:How Ironic (1)

dskoll (99328) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346027)

Hey, I'm completely opposed to GWB and his pals, including this $700B bailout. If people want to be greedy, they should pay the consequences. It's absolutely despicable that taxpayers are on the hook for stupid people who bought houses they couldn't afford and for greedy investment bankers. Just because I oppose the NDP doesn't mean I'm for the neocons.

Regulation (2, Informative)

Narishma (822073) | more than 5 years ago | (#25345695)

But isn't increased Internet regulation necessary to prevent big companies to do whatever they want at the expense of regular users?

That's goo, but I'd never vote NDP (4, Insightful)

ip_freely_2000 (577249) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346103)

They're just to left-wing wacky on too many issues to be in power. I like them as a solid opposition though, they keep things relatively honest.

I've been voting Conservative since I started making good money.....but their copyright stance is just stupid and American. I may vote Green this time.

Re:That's goo, but I'd never vote NDP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25346275)

I second that, for a relatively new party (they've been around since the 80's but they've made great strides in the last 8 years or so), the Green party is pretty fiscally conservative, except for maybe the carbon tax, but socially liberal. I've been voting conservative for as long as I've been able to vote, but I'm seriously considering voting Green this time. Too bad the party leader probably won't even win the riding she's running in though

Re:That's goo, but I'd never vote NDP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25346869)

I voted green in an advance poll. I figured the more parties are viable to win an election the harder the politicians will work for their jobs.

Re:That's goo, but I'd never vote NDP (1)

MarkRose (820682) | more than 5 years ago | (#25347649)

I voted Green in advanced polling. It makes so much sense to me to move the tax burden from what's good in society to what's bad in society: reduce income and corporate taxes and tax pollution instead. This not only increases the reward for productive effort while discouraging negative activity, it also encourage the economy to become more efficient and thus more competitive.

Slashdot shouldn't post partisan press releases! (1)

zabby39103 (1354753) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346205)

"The first leader of a major Canadian political party to acknowledge the importance of the Internet during a federal election?" Are you effing kidding me? A quick google would clearly show this to be false. Every major party is all over YouTube as well, and every major party but the Conservatives support net neutrality. Please be more careful, this is way worse than a typical story dupe.

Re:Slashdot shouldn't post partisan press releases (1)

GISGEOLOGYGEEK (708023) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346939)

Wow man, what have you been 'Puffin'?

The state of copyright in Canada. (1)

nitsnipe (1332543) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346325)

I'm Canadian and an NDP supporter but truth be told, it doesn't really matter in Canada who wins our election (which is on Tuesday by the way). Us the regular people tend to always get our way. Besides, our Conservative party is more left wing than the Democrats in U.S. What we know for sure about this election is that it is going to be another minority government, and the beauty of that is that no one can pass up any legislation that is too controversial(i.e. war on Iraq). Does this mean that things do not get done? No not really. It's Canada anyways, compared to many other countries around the world we do not have a huge urge to get things done at the moment and our economy seems to be surprisingly capable right now on weathering out this worldwide financial storm. Back on the main subject.A short time ago, the Conservatives tried to quietly pass up a Canadian version of the DMCA and that didn't go too well for them. Again that's the beauty of the minority government. Right now in Canada we pay a tax for blank media(CD/DVD-Rs) and that's about it. We are allowed to download music and movies as long as we keep it personal and do not use it to make profit. I've asked police officers, lawyers about this and they've told me it's ok, they know their kids download music too. Heck an executive of an ISP even told me he downloads torrents himself when I met him at the Toronto wireless conference. A problem that we do have is that our market is almost a monopoly. It's all only Bell and Rogers with their third parties and these two companies are stifling advancement in our communications industry and tightening their leash on us customers. We have 60Gb bandwidth caps and very expensive 3g access. But there are legal ways to get around this. You can change to a third party ISP, pay a bit more but no caps or if your neighbour's are not what you can call /.readers then their wireless is probably open anyways. I hope I gave a little insight to non-Canadians about the state of copyright in Canada. As you can see, it's not too bad.

Green Party was the first to support open source (1)

humble (307247) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346597)

The federal Green Party was the first major Canadian party to include support for net neutrality and open source in its platform.

http://www.linux.com/feature/120280 [linux.com]

Re:Green Party was the first to support open sourc (1)

GISGEOLOGYGEEK (708023) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346931)

Anyone who has been sucked into the Conservative fear-mongering lies about the Liberal Carbon tax will run away fast from the Green Party. The plans are essentially identical.

Populist measures of NDP (2, Interesting)

randito (159822) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346805)

The NDP is pretty tech savvy usually. They have two other platform points that are interesting, although populist:

  1. Ban bank fees for using competing banks ATMs. Canadian banks are much larger than their american counterparts, and are more profitable. The mortgage crisis here has been avoided due to more goverment regulation, and the banks are expected to continue to profit at the expense of poorer people who are hit with elevated service charges. Bank fees on ATMs stiffle competition by encouraging people to stay with the big five banks that have the power to litter every city with thousands of bank machines. In quélbec almost all of the ATMs are in the hands of one credit union in quebec , la caisse populaire desjardins, which has 80% + of the market here.
  2. Ban cellphone contracts and cellphone locking and allow users to switch companies while keeping their telephone number. The allowing to switch companies while keeping your number has already been implemented by the canadian govt, but the 3 year cellphone contract remains. The government also auctioned off a large chunk of spectrum, reserving a large percentage for new contenders. We are on the right path, but the contracts are prohibitive to competition.

Disclaimer: I am not an NDP supporter, I am actually a card carrying liberal. I just like these policies.

What he really thinks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25346821)

"'We don't want to see hidden fees and gouging and service slow-downs all in the interests of promoting the objectives of certain large corporations,' Layton says.""

What he really thinks is "We we will be totally upfront with our extra taxes and service slowdowns, all in the name of promoting our socialist vision."

Layton is SUCH a politico-whore. That guy will promise and say damn near ANYTHING to suck votes from the gullible. I would trust Dion or Harper any day over that dubious leader, and that's not saying much. Thank the gods that he won't be running a government any time soon. Hopefully never.

Of Course Layton likes P2P! (1)

GISGEOLOGYGEEK (708023) | more than 5 years ago | (#25346921)

Layton's platform would kill so many jobs ...

Raising corporate taxes from 22% up to 30% as we get sucked into the US made financial crisis would make us so uncompetitive. He promises to do this to raise money for his child benefit plan. But we won't need his child care plan, we'll be stuck at home all day with the kids without jobs.

Layton was doing well in the polls (for the NDP) ... right up to the day the official NDP platform was released and Canadians let out a collective WTFOMGRUN !!!

Layton has to support P2P ... all the people his plan makes unemployed will need some way to pass their time, and they sure won't have any spare money to spend on actually buying their entertainment.

Polarization is a disease (1)

Strych9 (126433) | more than 5 years ago | (#25347487)

There is nothing wrong with the NDP per say. People have become way to polarized over EVERYTHING. Wake up and start to think on your own and not what your "party" wants you to squawk.

The NDP makes a good opposition watch dog to ensure that government doesn't just roll over everyone to make a other special interests or back room deals happy. Government is supposed to be about the citizens, and I think people have truely forgotten that.

I don't like everything the NDP has brought down, I mean 400$ per kid/ month? Why should a single guy like me have to pay for some dead beat with 11 kids who is socially unfit or irresponsible? Your kids, your problem. I even like the conservative hardening stance on youth crime. Both items don't mean I wont' or will support either party, just making a point, that I will consider the platforms. Ironically it seems that even those items these days are just a bunch of random chatter that has no meaning whatsoever, unfortunate.

However how I vote will be a reading of policy and not some bland loyalty. It is too bad people don't do this anymore and just eat the soundbites offered, instead of make up your own mind.

But kudos that someone at least is saying something about these issues.

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