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Microsoft's Ethical Guidelines

kdawson posted more than 5 years ago | from the oxy-meet-moron dept.

Microsoft 271

hankwang writes "Did you know that Microsoft has ethical guidelines? It's good to know that 'Microsoft did not make any payments to foreign government officials' while lobbying for OOXML, and that 'Microsoft conducts its business in compliance with laws designed to promote fair competition' every time they suppressed competitors. In their Corporate Citizenship section, they discuss how the customer-focused approach creates products that work well with those of competitors and open-source solutions. So all the reverse-engineering by Samba and OpenOffice.org developers wasn't really necessary."

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All your base are belong to us... (5, Funny)

Muckluck (759718) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366369)

Ethics? Make your time...

Re:All your base are belong to us... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25366727)

Apology to the Black Race:

To the entire Black race living in America, we, the Adamic, pink complexioned race (better known to you as the White race) that came to these shores from Europe, England, Scotland, Ireland, and Iceland, do hereby apologize.

We apologize for freeing you from slavery by fighting a horrible war among ourselves that cost the lives of almost two million of our own race. We apologize for continuing to fight among ourselves over that very issue, even though you've never told us you appreciate our freeing you.

We apologize for splitting to pieces our entire race the world over to take sides with you to help you survive and become a freer race. We apologize for forcing the rest of the world to outlaw the slavery which your ancestors had practiced for thousands of years, even though many nations on your home continent still practice it today.

We apologize for thinking we could civilize you when you have proven that it is indeed an impossible feat, a feat beyond anything we could have ever imagined.
We apologize for introducing Christianity to you and dragging you away from the Voodoo you previously followed, although you have managed to sneak Voodoo back into cultic Christianity and your people have accepted it, which is proven by their animalistic whooping and hollering and stomping and screaming instead of respectfully worshiping our God as they ought to.

We apologize for teaching you to add and subtract (what little you can), thereby enabling you to run a household and pay your bills (what few you will) and count your children other than on your fingers and sometimes toes when you have so many you run out of fingers.

We apologize for providing you with medical care instead of leaving you under the witch doctors you used before we arrived, as a result of which you have been able to survive all sorts of diseases to multiply in massive numbers beyond what you could have without these aides.

We apologize for building schools for you which we have had to repair over and over after you vandalized them beyond use. We apologize for inventing computers and the Internet, neither of which you use very much, but when you do use them it's mostly to bash our race.

We apologize for building factories and businesses that employ you, if you so desire to work. We apologize for creating millions of bureaucratic jobs within our government system simply to give you employment, instead of leaving you to find work on your own.

We apologize for promoting and buying your music, although you refuse to buy ours. We apologize for talking and acting as you do, although you refuse to talk and act as we do.

We apologize for placing you in our movies and TV shows and elevating you to a fictional, heroic level that you have never reached in real life. We apologize for creating this false image of yourselves in your minds, for we realize after 400 years of trying to help you that you cannot solve problems and provide leadership and create original thoughts; and the image we've placed in your minds causes you to live in a delusional world. For that we truly apologize.

We apologize for creating quota systems and forced employment programs to make sure you have the best jobs, if you so desire to work. We apologize for thinking we could educate you so that you could learn to build and help others, when you obviously have only the ability to tear down and take from others.

We apologize for giving you welfare and food stamps, with the result that for four generations over half of your race has not had to work, except in makeshift type of jobs in our governments and bureaucracies.

We apologize for promoting your children in school as if they could understand basic arithmetic and grammar, such as multiplication and past participles, when we should have made sure they were accustomed to manual labor so that we would not have had to make up jobs for them in our governments dusting seats with their butts.

We apologize for developing farms in our own lands which you have never been able to do, and that to this day feed most of your race still living in Africa. We apologize for coming to Africa and building farms, from which you have now run us off of and have devastated beyond use, forcing us to continue feeding you.

We apologize for creating the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Bank (WB) and U.S. Government Foreign Aid Programs and hundreds of charities that funnel billions of our tax dollars and charitable donations to nations around the world run by your race, all because your race cannot take care of itself by itself anywhere you live.

We apologize for giving you the right to vote so you could take over all our major cities and turn them into high-taxed, crime-ridden cesspools that no civilized human being can live in.

We apologize for creating the term "reverend," which your leaders use to give themselves credentials and which their actions have denigrated beyond repair, with the result that no decent person would call himself "reverend," much less a Christian

We apologize for trying to come up with an AIDS vaccine to stop the epidemic spread of AIDS in Africa, AIDS being a disease that you created and passed on to us after having sexual intercourse with monkeys and then with one of our idiotic race-mixers who then passed it on to the rest of the world.

We apologize for providing you with warm, custom-made garments instead of the animal skins and leaves that you wore before we arrived. We apologize for providing you with shoes instead of leaving you barefooted as you were before we arrived in Africa.

We apologize for teaching you how to clean yourselves and your homes, and how to sanitize the water you drink to keep you from getting even more dreadful diseases than the rest of your race gets that still lives in Africa. We apologize for teaching you to cook your foods, which keep you from getting the hundreds of parasitic diseases that your race gets that still lives on your home continent of Africa.

We apologize for providing you with solidly built, heated, and cooled homes with grass yards instead of the straw huts and dirt yards you were living in before we arrived, and in which most of your race is still living in Africa.

We apologize for inventing sports so that you can make millions of dollars and live like kings, then kill and rape people with impunity, as O. J. Heisman-Trophy-Winner Simpson and Mike Heavy-Weight-Champion-of-the-World-Bite-the-ears-off-of-your-opponent Tyson have done, as well as many others among your race.

We apologize for producing such beautiful people for you to race-mix with, and if they won't voluntarily mix, you often casually rape them as if you were eating a piece of fried chicken.

Re:All your base are belong to us... (0, Redundant)

citizen_senior (1372475) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366959)

Sorry, I'm lost with this. What has this to do with Microsoft's ethics ? I feel I'm missing something ! Perhaps I should apologise ! Yes, that's the thing. Sorry folks, I must have been breathing again ! Excuse it, please

Re:All your base are belong to us... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25367213)

It has nothing to do with Microsoft, but it has alot to do with reality!

Unsurprising (5, Funny)

David Gerard (12369) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366423)

Microsoft has really lost it when it comes to evil these days. Apple's evil is just ridiculously better [today.com] . Microsoft's evil was damn fine in the 1990s, but these days it's just ... sorta lame. I mean, Vista - what dismally poorly executed evil! And the Zune, oh dear.

So trying to be good is all that's left to them. Can they go straight? Or will it be straight back to crime?

Re:Unsurprising (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25366543)

No kidding, since they probable followed the two they're getting called out on.

"Microsoft did not make any payments to foreign government officials"

Well, they were probably foreign business men, now weren't they.

"Microsoft conducts its business in compliance with laws designed to promote fair competition"

Of course they do. If they don't they get slapped with huge fines.

Also: "the customer-focused approach creates products that work well with those of competitors and open-source solutions"

Well duh. It doesn't say anything about making it easy for open-source solutions and competitors from working well with IT, though...

Microsoft is just misunderstood. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25366979)

All true, but somewhat beside the point.

Microsoft is just misunderstood. People think that Microsoft is a software company, but it isn't. Microsoft is an abuse company that sells software as a way of delivering abuse. Microsoft's evil is not a side-effect of their management philosophy, Microsoft's evil is their business model.

Re:Microsoft is just misunderstood. (3, Interesting)

mysidia (191772) | more than 5 years ago | (#25367187)

Sounds about right.

I heard that the next major version of windows will have a SQL-based file system.

And General Protection Fault / Illegal operation has occured is being enhanced.

Not only will windows now kill applications at random, but will corrupt files you were working on at random.

And the newest enhancement is corrupting files you weren't working on at random.

Because the documents you weren't working on will be stored on disk within the same binary blob.

Windows explorer will transparently open the binary blob with all lots of your documents in it as a folder, so you can still drag and drop them to other document stores or send a document as an e-mail.

Re:Unsurprising (1)

guyminuslife (1349809) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366549)

That's it. I'm officially starting a tally for every time I see that page linked on Slashdot.

And then, for every point on the tally, I'm going to put a dollar toward buying an iPod.

Bring it.

Re:Unsurprising (1)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366879)

At the about-to-explode rate of inflation and the ever increasing costs of ipods for "quality", you're going to need more than a few years :D

Re:Unsurprising (2)

nsheppar (889445) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366899)

I've put the link in my sig. Enjoy that iPod. Hope you can still put food on the table.

Re:Unsurprising (1)

GaryPatterson (852699) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366905)

You know that if you backdated this a month or two, you could afford fifteen iPod Touch (32GB) units, two MacBook Pros (the kind released tomorrow), an Apple TV, Time Capsule and a partridge in a... no, I mean a few iTunes gift cards.

And tomorrow Apple release new machines. Get ready to buy half a dozen Mac Pro towers, preloaded with 32GB RAM and 2x30" Apple Cinema displays.

Re:Unsurprising (0, Offtopic)

OeLeWaPpErKe (412765) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366671)

And google simply commits to "doing no evil". Yet they comply with censoring orders even in America (youtube videos disappear not just for copyright reasons, as everyone knows).

Re:Unsurprising (5, Interesting)

davester666 (731373) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366811)

Microsoft isn't evil. It simply spends a lot of it's time exploring the boundaries of the law around the world. And when you explore boarders, half the time you're on one side and the rest on the other side.

All in an effort to help the children (new corporations).

So they will know "You can go this far without getting into trouble. You can go this much further, and pay a small fine after doing it for 10 years. You can go twice as far, but then the fine will be 10 times higher, but you will only have to pay it 50 years later." And so on...

Re:Unsurprising (5, Funny)

weber (36246) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366819)

"You're not quite evil enough. You're semi-evil. You're quasi-evil. You're the margarine of evil. You're the Diet Coke of evil, just one calorie, not evil enough."
    -- Dr. Evil

Re:Unsurprising (1)

The Grassy Knoll (112931) | more than 5 years ago | (#25367067)

Thanks for the reference to the theme tune from Ronnie Barker's "Going Straight".

What a show.

.

Re:Unsurprising (1)

David Gerard (12369) | more than 5 years ago | (#25367163)

You should read the book version. It's just the scripts, written up in novel format - but somehow it's ten times better.

A string of meaningless words!! (5, Interesting)

jkrise (535370) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366425)

"....Microsoft provides a broad range of policies, programs, and products that are focused on our commitment to responsible and ethical business practices that promote user choice, industry opportunity, interoperability, and transparency....."

Last I checked Microsoft's Exchange Server works well only with IE. Unlike Gmail or Yahoo mail. Exchange is lousy with Firefox, Opera or Safari. Where is the choice?

And Exchange Server 2008 I belive even screws up the IMAP support, so Thunderbird users get the bird as well... So much for interoperability and transparency.

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (5, Funny)

dvice_null (981029) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366463)

> Where is the choice?

You can pick any browser you want from these alternatives: IE6, IE7, IE8

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (5, Insightful)

jkrise (535370) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366515)

You can pick any browser you want from these alternatives: IE6, IE7, IE8

Not always. You can't pick IE6 AND Vista. Many sites work well only with IE6.

Recent versions of Exchange Server work well only with IE7 or later. So in a Corporate setting with Win2K systems running IE6 for the Corporate Intranet, things get very clunky and unmanagable. Add multiple versions of SharePoint, Office, Active Directory... and pretty soon, you realise even Microsoft's products do not work well between and amnongst themselves. Unless you upgrade all of them, all at once. Which is pretty much impractical and terribly expensive.

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (1)

OeLeWaPpErKe (412765) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366683)

Actually I've tried firefox just yesterday on my exchange webmail account. It certainly works.

Of course my company probably hasn't got the newest version of exchange webmail (? what's it called ?), but it works.

The VPN is the problem, really.

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (2, Interesting)

somersault (912633) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366885)

It works, but if you tried it on IE you'd notice that you get nicer stuff like fancy context sensitive right click menus.

It was the same with hotmail for a while. They've sorted the right click menus in Firefox now, but you still can't change the ratio of inbox to reading pane.

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (2, Insightful)

nmg196 (184961) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366741)

> Many sites work well only with IE6.

Yes, but you shouldn't use those sites as it means they're totally obsolete and haven't been updated in the last two years since IE7 was released.

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (1)

wild_berry (448019) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366781)

Many sites work well only with IE6

Not Slashdot. Not any more.

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (4, Funny)

omeomi (675045) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366827)

Not always. You can't pick IE6 AND Vista.

Thank God.

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (0)

Toreo asesino (951231) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366939)

You can't pick IE6 AND Vista. Many sites work well only with IE6.

Name me one site that works in IE 7/8 but not IE6. Seriously, pick any.

Add multiple versions of SharePoint, Office, Active Directory... and pretty soon, you realise even Microsoft's products do not work well between and amongst themselves.

Mmmmm that's quite a sweeping comment to make; again, can you give specifics? You have a point on some of the sever-side stuff; IIS being tied to a Windows version; Exchange too tends to have fairly strict OS requirements, but for server-side operations this rarely causes adoption problems; given that server's are few compared to the many clients they are supposed to service.

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 5 years ago | (#25367195)

I don't know if it works in IE7, but if you want one that doesn't work well in IE6 you're looking at it. Misplaced and overlapping sections, buttons that don't appear to do anything (metamoderation)...

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (4, Interesting)

wanderingknight (1103573) | more than 5 years ago | (#25367203)

Name me one site that works in IE 7/8 but not IE6. Seriously, pick any.

Slashdot?

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (4, Informative)

Toreo asesino (951231) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366523)

Actually, Exchange works just fine on any browser you want. Some features aren't supported (like sending rich-text emails), but 95% is.

But then, there's still a bunch of stuff you can't do on web-access for any browser, so this is hardly a show-stopper. Exchange was never meant to be just a web-mail server believe it or not.

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (5, Insightful)

canix (1176421) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366563)

Strange definition of "works just fine" - works fine but not everything works. "Works just about" would have been better.

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (1, Insightful)

Toreo asesino (951231) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366709)

works fine but not everything works.

What's been implemented is standards compliant. No, not 100% of Exchange web functionality available in IE is available to non IE browsers, but the 95% common functionality there is between the 2 implementations will work on any major browser - see http://msexchangeteam.com/archive/2006/09/13/428901.aspx [msexchangeteam.com] for a brief rundown of what won't work on non-IE browsers.

Finally, if you're looking for a web only email solution, don't use Exchange; that's not what it's designed for.

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (4, Funny)

ciderVisor (1318765) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366957)

Sex Change Team ?

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25366625)

Exchange was never meant to be just a web-mail server believe it or not.

So what is Microsoft's solution for users trying to access their email while travelling? Most Internet cafe's have uninstalled IE and provide only Firefox because it is so much better against viruses. When free email providers like Gmail and Yahoo can provide great features for web users, why can't a bloatware product that costs a pile of money do the same or better?

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (2, Informative)

GigaplexNZ (1233886) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366779)

Exchange was never meant to be just a web-mail server believe it or not.

So what is Microsoft's solution for users trying to access their email while travelling?

Exchange. It was designed to support web mail, but it isn't the primary purpose.

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (4, Insightful)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 5 years ago | (#25367063)

There is no way to search your messages from any browser except IE... that is a broken email program!

I don't expect it to be as feature-rich as Outlook, and I don't even care if IE has more features... but SEARCH? As a result, I forward all of my mail to a gmail account. Yeah, yeah, yeah, what if my gmail is compromised. Cry me a river.

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (2, Informative)

JasterBobaMereel (1102861) | more than 5 years ago | (#25367077)

Exchange was never meant to be an Internet mail server at all - this is why it is so bad at it e.g. email outside the system is very limited in comparison with internal messages

It was designed to be (and still is) a corporate messaging and collaboration system, internet email was bolted on and is still (apparently) an afterthought

Webmail is only to be used if you cannot connect to the network and use a proper client (Outlook), it is a stopgap and is not intended to be the normal interface

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (1)

suckmysav (763172) | more than 5 years ago | (#25367233)

Try using outlook web access using ff3 on linux. It mostly of works, but you simply can't login without clicking thru a huge fucking screen telling you to upgrade your browser.

arseholes

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25367165)

Note some things seen as ethics issues are just inability ... like IE 6 IE 7 & IE 7 Exchange server, and more

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25367231)

3 choices... and 2 of 'em don't work.

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (2, Interesting)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366519)

Uhm, Exchange 2003 at least certainly works with FireFox - I use it daily. It may not be as rich as the environment you get with IE, but it certainly is perfectly usable.

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25366567)

Uhm, Exchange 2003 at least certainly works with FireFox - I use it daily. It may not be as rich as the environment you get with IE, but it certainly is perfectly usable.

But why? It looks like it's been specifically engineered that way, not anything technologically lacking in Firefox or Opera. Try replying to a neat HTML email in Firefox and it reverts to basic text, and looks terribly ugly. Also a simple plain vanilla email from Firefox is rendered in a miniscule size font when read with IE.

Mere meaningless words on an ethics page will not make the products interoperable or promote user choice. This is 2008, not 1998.

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25366643)

Why? How about because Firefox wasn't there when Exchange 2003 was released? Because Netscape didn't have an XMLHTTP facility; Ajax came from IE and Outlook Web access.

But no, really it's a conspiracy that MS didn't have a soothsayer on the Exchange team so they could plan from a browser that wouldn't be created for another year, and when there wasn't a standard way of accessing what was, at the time, an IE only extension. Damn them. DAMN THEM TO HELL.

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (4, Interesting)

somersault (912633) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366961)

From http://msexchangeteam.com/archive/2006/09/13/428901.aspx [msexchangeteam.com]

Why doesn't Premium work on Firefox?

Before I wrap up, I'd like to address the question we often receive about why OWA Premium doesn't work in non IE browsers. The following is heavily plagiarized from others who have answered this question as well (thanks Kristian!), and if after reading this you are still unclear as to why Premium doesn't work on Firefox, please feel free to post your questions here and I'll do my best to answer them.

Shockingly, the decision to make OWA Premium only work on IE6+ has nothing to do with forcing people to use other Microsoft products (sorry to have to dispel the conspiracy, and just when Oliver Stone and Kevin Costner were starting pre-production on "OWA: The Movie "). The decision was made, simply enough, due to costs, time, and customer need.

The browser support we have for OWA Premium and OWA Light is due to usage share among our customers, and the development and test investment it takes to support additional browsers/versions. This doesn't mean the browser statistics for "browsers hitting OWA", which would be skewed based on our previous browser support. We look at the browser statistics for "browsers used on the Internet" and "browsers used within our customer organizations", as well as listening to what customers are asking for, since statistics, surveys, site logs, and research firms never tell the full story. The browser matrix of OWA is about where we allocate our investments, and the need of additional browser support as compared to the need for all the other OWA features our customers want. We have limited resources, limited time, and a very large set of potential features.

I understand it would be a PITA for them to add in support for 'premium' features in every browser, but FireFox has shown to be pretty popular in general. It's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy to say "we don't add in these features for other browsers because nobody is using those browsers for OWA". If they added in support for those features in firefox they'd probably find the percentage of users using firefox for OWA increases a lot. I know I used to fire up IE just to use OWA.

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (1)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 5 years ago | (#25367079)

All you really need for explanation is that it uses ActiveX. They'd have to do a total rewrite in order to support other browsers.

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (1)

somersault (912633) | more than 5 years ago | (#25367179)

Well, OWA for Exchange 2003 doesn't ask to install any ActiveX components so I'm not so sure. Perhaps 2007 does use ActiveX. From later on in the same page the guy continued his excuses by talking about having lots of premium features that would need tweaked for them to work in other browsers, so I had thought it was more of a DOM issue.

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (2, Insightful)

cryptodan (1098165) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366639)

"....Microsoft provides a broad range of policies, programs, and products that are focused on our commitment to responsible and ethical business practices that promote user choice, industry opportunity, interoperability, and transparency....."

Last I checked Microsoft's Exchange Server works well only with IE. Unlike Gmail or Yahoo mail. Exchange is lousy with Firefox, Opera or Safari. Where is the choice?

And Exchange Server 2008 I belive even screws up the IMAP support, so Thunderbird users get the bird as well... So much for interoperability and transparency.

Have you used Lotus iNotes which is Lotus Notes for the web? It is completely broken and useless in non-internet explorer environments, so I would take your exchange bashing elsewhere. I prefer a somewhat working OWA then one that doesn't work at all.

Re:A string of meaningless words!! (1)

CaptainPatent (1087643) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366677)

Last I checked Microsoft's Exchange Server works well only with IE. Unlike Gmail or Yahoo mail. Exchange is lousy with Firefox, Opera or Safari. Where is the choice?

Well that's easy, you get to choose whether or not you want it to work correctly!

I hope that clears things up and you can see how committed Microsoft truly is!

Ethics (5, Interesting)

symes (835608) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366427)

You know, sometimes you'll find organisations with the most detailed and extensive ethical guidelines imaginable. And in the same cupboard you'll find several inches of dust. "A man is the sum of his actions, of what he has done, of what he can do, Nothing else" (Gandhi, M).

Re:Ethics (5, Informative)

dnoyeb (547705) | more than 5 years ago | (#25367229)

Whats funny is that at least what is posted is not MS ethics. Those are Federal laws. They can call them ethics if they want, but not paying off foreign officials is not an ethical question. Its a legal one.

Anything to do with gaining favor from a foreign government is strictly illegal. (except for attempts to speed up what is the natural process)

Looking for ethics (5, Funny)

crispi (131688) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366437)

I'm sure they have some ethics around somewhere? ...somewhere... ...still looking...

Aha! ActiveEthics(TM).

Re:Looking for ethics (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25366481)

MS Active EthiX(tm)(r)

Re:Looking for ethics (1)

$RANDOMLUSER (804576) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366513)

Unfortunately, there are seven different known exploits to ActiveEthics that turn you into a serial child rapist.

Re:Looking for ethics (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25366839)

"Aha! ActiveEthics(TM)."

Thats the old one, the new one is .Nethics

It runs in a configurable virtual world, so you can tweak it to fit in any situation.

Censored tags? (0, Offtopic)

Meor (711208) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366441)

What happened to the kdawsonfud tags? Are these censored? When tags first came out they were always tagged with this but now when I tag them it never appears. It seems very odd these would be censored.

Re:Censored tags? (2, Insightful)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366767)

What happened to the kdawsonfud tags?

The problem with tags like these is that they get overused so that every story by kdawson ends up with one. One might argue that this might be entirely warranted due to constant bias, but it still looks like a knee-jerk reaction to any post. It dilutes the term when used too much.

In this case: yes, it does seem unfair to associate these ethical guidelines with the reverse-engineering that went on prior to the guidelines being published. The work on Samba started over a decade before the Microsoft document was written.

If the question was rephrased into the current tense, then the answer would be that it is not necessary to reverse engineer the protocols/file formats, because they have now been published by Microsoft. It may have been ten years later than we would have liked, but then Microsoft do have a habit of trying to ignore anything that might result in the reduction of lock-in for Windows until way too late. This was why they were late in seeing the Internet as a priority, along with XML, VMs, and now open source and interoperability.

Before the bashing silliness begins (3, Insightful)

$RANDOMLUSER (804576) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366447)

I'll point out that they've had a big anti-trust target painted on their foreheads (both in the US and the EU) for a long long time now. I'm sure they actually do spend a lot of time making sure they don't run afoul of the local regulators, watchdog groups and newspapers.

Having said that, Microsoft?? Ethics??? hahahahaha LET THE BASHING BEGIN! Couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch of assholes!

What is a code of conduct for? (4, Insightful)

golodh (893453) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366455)

The opening post displays a startling lack of insight as far as the purpose of having a Code of Conduct is concerned.

There really do seem to be people who believe that a Code of Conduct is there to limit what a company can do. Nothing could be further from the truth.

First and foremost, a Code of Conduct is an integral part of the company's PR effort. Every self-respecting company has to have one. It's cool to have one, and you look stupid and unsophisticated if you don't. Besides, there is no need to be without. There are templates with good-sounding Codes of Conduct that are guaranteed to leave everyone a comfortably free hand.

Secondly: damage limitation. A Code of Conduct is there to be able to shield a company from legal consequences of unethical conduct by it's employees on its behalf. If an employee is caught red-handed, it really helps if a company is able to state (truthfully) that this action contravenes their official Code of Conduct. This can really limit the damage.

Re:What is a code of conduct for? (5, Insightful)

b00le (714402) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366505)

My own employers have an ethics code which is 33 pages of closely-spaced Maoist gibberish, most of which has nothing at all to do with the ethics of company, or managerial, behaviour and much of which is actually exhortations to blind obedience for employees. All corporations tend to authoritarianism, and these are the people who actually own the world, while blathering about freedom and democracy. The truth is that anyone employed by a large corporation spends most of their waking hours living in a totalitarian dictatorship - could this be what is wrong with Western Civilisation?

Re:What is a code of conduct for? (3, Interesting)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366717)

what i pose to you, is how would you do things better? try running a company where the janitor gets an equal vote on say, corporate strategy and see how long you last.

Re:What is a code of conduct for? (4, Interesting)

Tryfen (216209) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366865)

Co-Ops - or Workers' Cooperative. One of the largest retailers in the UK [johnlewisp...ship.co.uk] is a Co-Op.

If you work there as a janitor - you own part of the company and thus get a vote. It's working well for them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_cooperative [wikipedia.org]

Re:What is a code of conduct for? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25367103)

I'd rather have every person in the company own it and be responsible for running it into the ground than 1 over paid CEO who will just run away with a golden parachute if anything bad ever happens.

Re:What is a code of conduct for? (0)

Loki_666 (824073) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366531)

Mod parent up... this is exactly why they have these things.

News Headlines: Ballimer caught having sex with sheep

Microsoft PR: This is against our code of conduct and Ballimer will soon be getting shafted... erm, sacked.

Re:What is a code of conduct for? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25366613)

Apparently the poster is lumping conduct with ethics. As stated a code of conduct is only posted to limit liability. Ethics implies that some type of morality and conscience was behind the code.

Re:What is a code of conduct for? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25366729)

The opening post displays a startling lack of insight as far is concerned.

You must be new here.

GNU's code of ethics just says... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25366457)

"Big Stallman loves you. Big Stallman is watching you."

No bribes for OOXML, but (4, Interesting)

Tuqui (96668) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366467)

'Microsoft did not make any payments to foreign government officials' while lobbying for OOXML

But obviously they pay bribes to squash the Open Source Software Law in Peru [theregister.co.uk]

repetitio est mater studiorum (2, Insightful)

alxtoth (914920) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366509)

If they repeat this stuff often enough, people will get used to it. Or even believe !

News eh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25366525)

Publicly the world bank and the IMF make out like they're doing something other than enslaving the entire world.

Film at 11!

Ethics? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25366547)

I suspect that if I looked up Ethics in MS Encarta it would probably say

"Ethics - A county to the east of London"

---------
Essex for non-uk readers

Re:Ethics? (1)

oldhack (1037484) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366649)

Ethics is sex with 'es' strapped on... this an English thing?

Re:Ethics? (1)

SilentMobius (10171) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366829)

"Ethics" sounds like "Essex" if said with a lisp. The joke made me giggle so yeah, probably a UK thing.

we'll take the 1/2 black 'muslim terrorist' (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25366553)

almost anything would be an improvement over the current greed/fear/ego driven life0cidal glowbull warmongering execrable regime.

'funny' how the cost of our 'wars' & the blight that is fuddles' (& other felons) stock markup FraUD softwar gangster 'business' is never factored in to our national (spiritual) bankruptcy. it's all in the manual, you can 'play' along if you like.

greed, fear & ego are unprecedented evile's primary weapons. those, along with deception & coercion, helps most of us remain (unwittingly?) dependent on its' life0cidal hired goons' agenda. most of yOUR dwindling resources are being squandered on the 'wars', & continuation of the billionerrors stock markup FraUD/pyramid schemes. nobody ever mentions the real long term costs of those debacles in both life & any notion of prosperity for us, or our children, not to mention the abuse of the consciences of those of us who still have one. see you on the other side of it. the lights are coming up all over now. conspiracy theorists are being vindicated. some might choose a tin umbrella to go with their hats. the fairytail is winding down now. let your conscience be yOUR guide. you can be more helpful than you might have imagined. there are still some choices. if they do not suit you, consider the likely results of continuing to follow the corepirate nazi hypenosys story LIEn, whereas anything of relevance is replaced almost instantly with pr ?firm? scriptdead mindphuking propaganda or 'celebrity' trivia 'foam'. meanwhile; don't forget to get a little more oxygen on yOUR brain, & look up in the sky from time to time, starting early in the day. there's lots going on up there.

http://news.google.com/?ncl=1216734813&hl=en&topic=n
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/31/opinion/31mon1.html?em&ex=1199336400&en=c4b5414371631707&ei=5087%0A
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080918/ap_on_re_us/tent_cities;_ylt=A0wNcyS6yNJIZBoBSxKs0NUE
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/29/world/29amnesty.html?hp
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/02/nasa.global.warming.ap/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/weather/06/05/severe.weather.ap/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/weather/06/02/honore.preparedness/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/09/28/what.matters.meltdown/index.html#cnnSTCText
http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/books/10/07/atwood.debt/index.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/01/opinion/01dowd.html?em&ex=1212638400&en=744b7cebc86723e5&ei=5087%0A
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/05/senate.iraq/index.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/17/washington/17contractor.html?hp
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/03/world/middleeast/03kurdistan.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080708/cheney_climate.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080805/pl_politico/12308;_ylt=A0wNcxTPdJhILAYAVQms0NUE
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/18/voting.problems/index.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080903/ts_nm/environment_arctic_dc;_ylt=A0wNcwhhcb5It3EBoy2s0NUE
(talk about cowardlly race fixing/bad theater/fiction?) http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/19/news/economy/sec_short_selling/index.htm?cnn=yes
http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=ApTbxRfLnscxaGGuCocWlwq7YWsA/SIG=11qicue6l/**http%3A//biz.yahoo.com/ap/081006/meltdown_kashkari.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/opinion/04sat1.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
(the teaching of hate as a way of 'life' synonymous with failed dictatorships) http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081004/ap_on_re_us/newspapers_islam_dvd;_ylt=A0wNcwWdfudITHkACAus0NUE
(some yoga & yogurt makes killing/getting killed less stressful) http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081007/ap_on_re_us/warrior_mind;_ylt=A0wNcw9iXutIPkMBwzGs0NUE
(the old bait & switch...you're share of the resulting 'product' is a fairytail nightmare?)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081011/ap_on_bi_ge/where_s_the_money;_ylt=A0wNcwJGwvFIZAQAE6ms0NUE

is it time to get real yet? A LOT of energy is being squandered in attempts to keep US in the dark. in the end (give or take a few 1000 years), the creators will prevail (world without end, etc...), as it has always been. the process of gaining yOUR release from the current hostage situation may not be what you might think it is. butt of course, most of US don't know, or care what a precarious/fatal situation we're in. for example; the insidious attempts by the felonious corepirate nazi execrable to block the suns' light, interfering with a requirement (sunlight) for us to stay healthy/alive. it's likely not good for yOUR health/memories 'else they'd be bragging about it? we're intending for the whoreabully deceptive (they'll do ANYTHING for a bit more monIE/power) felons to give up/fail even further, in attempting to control the 'weather', as well as a # of other things/events.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=weather+manipulation&btnG=Search
http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=video+cloud+spraying

'The current rate of extinction is around 10 to 100 times the usual background level, and has been elevated above the background level since the Pleistocene. The current extinction rate is more rapid than in any other extinction event in earth history, and 50% of species could be extinct by the end of this century. While the role of humans is unclear in the longer-term extinction pattern, it is clear that factors such as deforestation, habitat destruction, hunting, the introduction of non-native species, pollution and climate change have reduced biodiversity profoundly.' (wiki)

"I think the bottom line is, what kind of a world do you want to leave for your children," Andrew Smith, a professor in the Arizona State University School of Life Sciences, said in a telephone interview. "How impoverished we would be if we lost 25 percent of the world's mammals," said Smith, one of more than 100 co-authors of the report. "Within our lifetime hundreds of species could be lost as a result of our own actions, a frightening sign of what is happening to the ecosystems where they live," added Julia Marton-Lefevre, IUCN director general. "We must now set clear targets for the future to reverse this trend to ensure that our enduring legacy is not to wipe out many of our closest relatives."

"The wealth of the universe is for me. Every thing is explicable and practical for me .... I am defeated all the time; yet to victory I am born." --emerson

consult with/trust in yOUR creators. providing more than enough of everything for everyone (without any distracting/spiritdead personal gain motives), whilst badtolling unprecedented evile, using an unlimited supply of newclear power, since/until forever. see you there?

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."

"Do Some Evil" (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25366559)

"We find the word 'no' to be a bit strong, and not in the best interest of the company or some of its stock holders. For this reason, 'some' evil is allowed if it increases long term growth or profits. Or if Steve Ballmer wishes it. Please keep this in mind in your dealings as we do not want employees to become confused that they are working for Google."

Actual ethics section from the manual (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25366561)

*** This page intentionally left blank ***

/troll (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25366581)

i rofl'd at this IRL

Ethical Guidelines (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25366615)

Microsoft is every bit as evil as GE, or the US government.
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?list=type&type=16

Although its an unpopular view, I don't consider microsoft to be exceptionally evil, as large corps go. I've completed online "ethics training" courses for various companies. The policies are really about protecting corporate interests.

Microsoft has surrendered to Samba now... (1, Troll)

adamkennedy (121032) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366675)

After the Vista debacle and how easy it was for Samba to implement the new CIFS, Microsoft has surrendered to the inevitable now.

They've now built and operate an interoperability testing laboratory for the Samba team to use to improve integration with Samba.

what is the point of this MS bashing? (0, Flamebait)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366699)

what the fuck do nerds who post this dribble think is going to happen, that MS will tremble at their scorn? Every single company with more than a few 100 employees has these kinds of corporate statements which are supposed to be all touchy feelie but completely optional. some dick at MS probably has a job doing nothing but writing this crap, it doesn't make MS a single bit evil.

frankly that anyone finds this news worthy shows the level of naivety around here....

Re:what is the point of this MS bashing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25366789)

And I bet you bought two copies of Windows Vista, because you love it and Microsoft sooooo much.

Re:what is the point of this MS bashing? (2, Insightful)

qmaqdk (522323) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366855)

I'm surprised at your reaction to this.

MS bashing has been happening since Windows 95, and has since then become part of geek culture. It's all but automatic now, and just for fun. Like Chuck Norris jokes and the like. And you do know that this is /. right?

In the nineties a friend of mine also used to get angry when I bashed MS (again just for fun), and it really confounded me that he would get so angry. Perhaps you can enlighten me?

Categorisation (1)

pjt33 (739471) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366861)

There's a reason that this is filed under Entertainment rather than, say, News.

Re:what is the point of this MS bashing? (1)

GaryPatterson (852699) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366945)

... it doesn't make MS a single bit evil

You're completely correct. Only their past actions make MS seem evil. A document about their ethics is mere window dressing.

(I kid, I kid! Not on this, but on other things, I kid, I kid! I mean, which other company has destroyed the competition in such a way? Outside munitions manufacturers, that is? But hey, they've got good ideas about ethics these days. It's just a shame their management can't take time out of their vital puppy-strangling projects to read them! Try the chicken, tip your waitress and remember, I'm here all week so you don't have to be.)

Re:what is the point of this MS bashing? (2, Funny)

MyLongNickName (822545) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366971)

Slashdot is like midnight basketball leagues for nerds. It keeps them off the streets where they might get into trouble.

Re:what is the point of this MS bashing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25367043)

Welcome to /.

Re:what is the point of this MS bashing? (1)

ConceptJunkie (24823) | more than 5 years ago | (#25367115)

I think the word you're looking for is 'drivel'.

OK I'll bite... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25367175)

While having a code of ethics doesn't make MS evil, it does throw the difference between what they say and what they do into stark relief.

"Fair Competition and Antitrust: As a global business, we encounter laws and regulations designed to promote fair competition and encourage ethical and legal behavior among competitors. Antitrust laws and fair competition laws generally prohibit any activity that restrains free trade and limits competition. We conduct our business in compliance with these laws."

Oops...So when found guilty of anti-trust, who got fired for not only breaking the law, but also the companies policy? I guess the company must condone such behaviour.

"But what about the code?" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25366803)

"They're more Guidelines than actual rules..."

Vista broke DHCP. (0, Flamebait)

Zombie Ryushu (803103) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366805)

Are you aware, that Vista did something that caused DHCP to break for many many home based residential gateway "routers" - and among one of the things that was broken was Linux's dhcpd?

I have one Vista Client. We can't use DHCP with it, we have to use static addressing just for that node to work.

More and more Vista boxes with broken DHCP clients get put out every day. And when I'm brought a Vista client with one of those horribly broken DHCP clients I'm told "Its Linux's problem, "fix" Linux's DHCP Server.

Re:Vista broke DHCP. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25367017)

Informative? Where is the information here? Seriously, when issues arise at the communication border between 2 components, the fault can be on either side (or both). Until I see someone tracing the network exchange and comparing against the standard to figure what is at fault, I call BS.
So, maybe this work has been done and blame was found to be on the Vista side, but this comment would be informative only if pointing to that analysis. As it stands, I only see FUD.

Re:Vista broke DHCP. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25367019)

Are you aware that it's because those routers don't obey the standards (which you guys harp on IE about incessantly), and that the behavior can be reverted (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/928233 - guess what was the first google result for "Vista DHCP")? You rabid zealots are intolerable.

Weasel words (5, Interesting)

dutchd00d (823703) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366823)

Funny how they say "Microsoft conducts its business in compliance with laws designed to promote fair competition" instead of "Microsoft will not engage in unfair competition". Gotta keep those loopholes open!

Re:Weasel words (1)

MagdJTK (1275470) | more than 5 years ago | (#25367235)

What's more depressing is that they thought it was required to put this in their ethical guidelines.

When you have to actively point out that your employees shouldn't knowingly break the law, something must be wrong.

Love (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25366857)

Slashdot loves to hate Microsoft.

Why are you surprised ? (1)

unity100 (970058) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366883)

After all microsoft is a charity organization. Its only normal that they have a corporate ethics and citizenship code ....

Guidelines? (3, Funny)

DJRumpy (1345787) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366901)

Really, their more of a suggestion...

Not evil (4, Funny)

HangingChad (677530) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366917)

Microsoft is not evil, they have merely raised incompetence to a level that's indistinguishable from malice. Redmond is not capable of the consistency of purpose and execution that really good evil requires.

At least they know that they aren't ''great'' (1)

Alain Williams (2972) | more than 5 years ago | (#25366963)

Ballmer's letter starts: ''Microsoft aspires to be a great company'' -- which is him really saying ''I would like Microsoft to be a great company, but ...''

We could have told him that all along :-)

#define hypocrisy (0, Troll)

jhhdk (1120433) | more than 5 years ago | (#25367005)

N/T

Mod the story "funny" (1)

Kvasio (127200) | more than 5 years ago | (#25367135)

It's a nice prank story ....

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