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Stardock Evaluates DRM Complaints, Updates Gamer's Bill of Rights

Soulskill posted about 6 years ago | from the they-sense-anger dept.

Games 279

Earlier this year, we discussed the Gamer's Bill of Rights, a document put forth by Stardock CEO Brad Wardell to address what he felt were the unacceptable characteristics of the gaming industry. ShackNews reports that Wardell has taken feedback from gamers, developers, and publishers, and updated the document accordingly. One particular area on which he focused was DRM. Stardock also published a customer report that examines the issue in greater detail (PDF). MTV's Multiplayer Blog fans the flames of the debate by asking if anyone is embarrassed about pirating video games.

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So... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25408673)

When are they going to add another important point to the bill of rights:

11. Gamers shall have the right to play the game on the platform of their choosing.

Obviously, this whole bill of rights deal is for PC's and not consoles.

Re:So... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25408709)

After reviewing the linked document, I found this:

Protecting its platform Stardock develops for Windows. Period. It does not, nor does it plan
to, support the Mac or Linux markets. Our focus is to help make the Windows platform as
successful as possible. Stardockâ(TM)s entertainment group may eventually make console games as
well, but when it comes to application software, Windows is the platform.

Pretty strange statement to make, unless you're Microsoft.

Re:So... (4, Insightful)

MrMista_B (891430) | about 6 years ago | (#25408745)

Or have limited funds and resources, and want to put those funds and recources into games for your biggest market.

Re:So... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25408785)

I suppose. Although the way the statement is worded, it doesn't seem to be the case with Stardock.

I'm not a game developer, but I know several well known development companies have ported their games to Mac and some extent even Linux without bankrupting the company.

And no one even uses Linux!

Re:So... (2, Informative)

azuredrake (1069906) | about 6 years ago | (#25408857)

Stardock started not as a game publisher but as a Windows Application publisher. They have some desktop productivity products or something... but have become more famous for their consumer-friendly approach to PC gaming. Brad Wardell is taking advantage of the anti-DRM hype going on post-spore to build up a lot of respect for himself in the hardcore gamer community.

I suspect that this heiritage of developing for Windows only, as well as their relatively small scale as a publisher, leads them to a.) keep the people they have hired already and b.) not want to hire more people if at all possible. These two concerns definitely lead to publishing only for Windows in the foreseeable future.

Though I would argue that it's getting sillier and sillier to stick to one platform, especially with the addition of discrete graphics cards to entry level Macbooks as well as the Pros and the proliferation of Apple marketshare. Put simply, people who are writing apps from the ground up should be doing it in an environment where porting between Mac, PC, and Linux is easy, or they're not being responsible to their duty to maximize returns on their investment, especially given the relative dirth of good game titles on Mac and native Linux.

Re:So... (4, Informative)

Mad Merlin (837387) | about 6 years ago | (#25409197)

Stardock started not as a game publisher but as a Windows Application publisher.

No, Stardock started as an OS/2 game publisher in 1993, they didn't touch Windows until 1998. See: http://www.stardock.com/stardock/articles/article_sdos2.html [stardock.com]

Re:So... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25409389)

Stardock started not as a game publisher but as a Windows Application publisher.

No, Stardock started as an OS/2 game publisher in 1993, they didn't touch Windows until 1998. See: http://www.stardock.com/stardock/articles/article_sdos2.html [stardock.com]

No wonder they changed then - that's hardly a great market.

Re:So... (2, Insightful)

Nightspirit (846159) | about 6 years ago | (#25408875)

We'll they're pretty small, and shuts up the "will you develop for x" requests/complaints.

Re:So... (2, Informative)

Spikeles (972972) | about 6 years ago | (#25409077)

It might have something to do with the fact that in their survey(see page 30 of the pdf [shacknews.com] 72% of people said they wanted Stardock to keep working on Windows programs, and only 4% asked them to work on MacOS.

Re:So... (3, Insightful)

Scott Kevill (1080991) | about 6 years ago | (#25409317)

Majority of customers of a Windows-only publisher want them to do Windows software? Now that's a startling revelation.

Re:So... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25409445)

Yes they clearly hide all their software so none of the rancid Mac or Linux users ever see any of their software or what it does, thus forever avoiding anyone looking at their software going "I just wish they'd develop it for my platform"...

Re:So... (1)

Pvt_Ryan (1102363) | about 6 years ago | (#25409951)

Even more shocking is the fact that by only developing for windows you are forcing people who wouldn't normally choose windows to have a copy just to play games, and as such re-enforcing the illusion that there are too few other users of other platforms to both porting the games.

Re:So... (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | about 6 years ago | (#25409767)

Thats 100% of the Mac users who have heard of Stardock, and probably a few who crossover between mac and windows.

Still not a big market, though.

Re:So... (3, Funny)

Cassius Corodes (1084513) | about 6 years ago | (#25408727)

I'd like to see WoW on the commodore 64...

I want my Halo 3-on-C64 port (3, Informative)

LrdDimwit (1133419) | about 6 years ago | (#25408855)

I can see where you're coming from with this, but that isn't a 'right'. It's a 'demand', and a fairly selfish one at that. Nintendo should be forced to license their IPs out to their arch-nemeses? (I mean, aside from Sega ;) Companies should be forced to release ports even for systems that can't handle the load?

Not a bad idea, but needs a rethink.

Re:I want my Halo 3-on-C64 port (2, Funny)

Haeleth (414428) | about 6 years ago | (#25409729)

Nintendo should be forced to license their IPs out to their arch-nemeses?

Why not? They could use NAT, and free up some IPs for the rest of us to use. It would be a nice gesture of support for the Internet.

Re:So... (1)

All_One_Mind (945389) | about 6 years ago | (#25408877)

11. Gamers shall have the right to play the game on the platform of their choosing.

This is an unrealistic burden to put on every game designer/publisher. Just because a platform exists, doesn't mean every game company should support it. If we're talking about Gamers having the right to play on any hardware they want, they already have this freedom. However, if you're suggesting game companies should magically have the unlimited resources needed to support every platform for every game they release, then I should've modded you "Overrated" instead of replying.

Re:So... (1)

KasperMeerts (1305097) | about 6 years ago | (#25409775)

Alright. But don't start complaining if I pirate the game.
If there is no official support for my platform, why should I pay a company that doesn't think I'm important enough.

I also think there are a lot more Linux would-be gamers than most companies think. Saying there are about 25 to 100 Windows computers for every Linux computer, doesn't mean there are 25-100 times more Windows gamers. Maybe 5% of the Windows users buy a certain game, but 25% of the Linux crowd, just because there are so little Linux games. I'm still waiting for UT3.

Re:So... (1)

somersault (912633) | about 6 years ago | (#25409867)

Alright. But don't start complaining if I pirate the game.
If there is no official support for my platform, why should I pay a company that doesn't think I'm important enough.

Bzzzt, wrong! How exactly are you going to play this pirated game if you don't have a platform that supports it as you say?

Re:So... (1)

Kamokazi (1080091) | about 6 years ago | (#25408937)

Yeah, you get to work on recoding every game out there to play on all platforms.

Moron.

I suppose you want a pony too? (1)

traffichazard (972675) | about 6 years ago | (#25409159)

12. Gamers shall have the right to a pony.

Actually, I'm really looking forward to an Atari Lynx port of Bioshock.
Chip's Challenge is starting to lose it's appeal.

Re:So... (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | about 6 years ago | (#25409771)

... it WILL play Crysis?

Re:So... (2, Insightful)

Pvt_Ryan (1102363) | about 6 years ago | (#25409933)

12. If a gamer owns a copy of a game for 1 platform they shall be able to download versions for all other platforms at no extra cost. (I.e. I buy a game for windows and they release a linux version, I should not have to buy the game twice).

Embarrassed? (2, Informative)

ludomancer (921940) | about 6 years ago | (#25408729)

Embarrassed? No. I know that I will gladly purchase a game that I feel deserves my money, but I have a great appreciation of piracy for allowing me to preview a product freely in advance. Developers are not losing any money on Piracy from me. I truly wish that were the case for everyone, and we probably wouldn't be in this predicament.

But who can honestly say those who pirate rampantly are going to buy the damn games anyway? Most of them I assume are kids who don't even have an income in the first place.

Regardless, though I'm certainly not embarrassed by that, I am increasingly afraid of losing my job, or suffering some other form of corporate backlash. I WORK in the damn game industry. Pretty much everyone I know downloads games, and buys the ones they like. But in the last few years it's gone from something that "everyone does", to something "everyone does unofficially".
Something that still confuses me are the kids nowadays that come in chanting copyright slogans and poo-pooing on people who bit torrent stuff. That grade-school brainwashing really does work wonders...

Re:Embarrassed? (3, Insightful)

azuredrake (1069906) | about 6 years ago | (#25408789)

When I got my first job in the game industry, I stopped pirating anything. It was in my contract that I wouldn't, and even though they obviously never would have found out, it still wasn't something I would have felt good about.

I still hassle my roommates for pirating games that I worked on. While I'd never see any of the revenue myself (it's not like we get royalties or anything), it still really bothers me.

Re:Embarrassed? (1)

isBandGeek() (1369017) | about 6 years ago | (#25408817)

Why? They're not contractually obliged to not download, unlike you.

Re:Embarrassed? (1, Troll)

azuredrake (1069906) | about 6 years ago | (#25408897)

There's a significant lack of respect for my work inherent in the statement they make by stealing a game I've worked on. The way it comes across to me is, "I know you spent hours of your life working on the thing that's entertaining me right now, and I think those hours were worth a total of zero dollars."

There's also what I say below, that it's a more compelling argument against game piracy when you have to talk to someone whom your actions are directly affecting.

Re:Embarrassed? (5, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | about 6 years ago | (#25409223)

There's a significant lack of respect for my work inherent in the statement they make by stealing a game I've worked on. The way it comes across to me is, "I know you spent hours of your life working on the thing that's entertaining me right now, and I think those hours were worth a total of zero dollars."

That is not their statement, that's your assumption.

Most hardcore pirates that I know are very much into promoting cool stuff and sharing it with others because they think it is really cool. They don't waste energy on crap. In part it gives them status in their community when they are able to turn people on to something impressive. This behavior seems to be normal human nature - sharing cool stuff regardless of what it is - is an inherent part of the human social animal.

You can choose to feel insulted by it, but feeling that way won't change anything and it makes you unhappy in the process.

Re:Embarrassed? (1)

montyzooooma (853414) | about 6 years ago | (#25409731)

Most hardcore pirates that I know are very much into promoting cool stuff and sharing it with others because they think it is really cool. They don't waste energy on crap. In part it gives them status in their community when they are able to turn people on to something impressive.

That'd be great and all except EVERYTHING gets cracked, crap or not. My only rule of thumb with piracy these days is that if the publisher wants me to feel like a criminal then their wish is my command.

Re:Embarrassed? (3, Interesting)

Goldberg's Pants (139800) | about 6 years ago | (#25409889)

Without getting into the absolute nonsense of industry piracy figures (I mean I'd be counted in the figures for pirating Spore, except I bought it as well. I just wanted the crack to avoid the DRM.) Piracy currently offers a more attractive product. I've read LOADS of people having problems with Spore when used from the legit copy. Not ONE problem with the cracked version.

Sure, I can understand developers wanting to protect their titles, but it has to be transparent, and it seems with each passing phase of software protection, more and more people are being screwed out of playing the game they've bought due to the DRM. And of course the pathetic irony is you can't return the game, "because you may have pirated it".

I started using cracks regularly when Neverwinter Nights wouldn't load for after a certain patch. (1.27 I think. Maybe 1.29.) That was where I basically said "Enough" and have cracked every piece of software I've bought since. (Except in the case of Stardock and the like who don't use DRM.)

It really is at the point though where I'm about done with the PC gaming industry. And I have no interest in the consoles, so mainstream PC gaming is pretty much "game over" for me now. Endless lack of imagination, endless expansion packs, endless DRM... It's just not worth it anymore.

Re:Embarrassed? (1)

shinmai (632532) | about 6 years ago | (#25408821)

I'm the first to admit that I'm a huge hypocrite, but I won't pirate any games developed by people I know, or any games from local publishers.

What is it that bothers you about your roommates pirating? Does it only bother you if you've worked on it, or is the feeling just stronger then?

Re:Embarrassed? (1)

azuredrake (1069906) | about 6 years ago | (#25408885)

It doesn't bother me more if I worked on it, I just think it provides me with a more compelling, more personal argument for why they shouldn't download them. My friends who have modded PS2s with probably hundreds of dollars of stolen games on them - that bothers me, but I know nothing I say to them will change their minds. But if they have to stand in front of me and tell me why they didn't value my work on their enjoyment, I think that at least makes them think, which makes it worth bringing up.

Re:Embarrassed? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25409073)

"Hundreds of dollard of games" is like 3 or 4 games, right?

Re:Embarrassed? (4, Insightful)

Chatterton (228704) | about 6 years ago | (#25409391)

When an game is sold $60, it is sold here in Europe for 60 Euro. You do the change back and tada: $100.
Now "Hundreds of dollard of games" start with only 1 :(

Re:Embarrassed? (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | about 6 years ago | (#25408881)

What? It really bothers you because of some lame-ass boilerplate in an employment contract? Something that probably wasn't even enforceable anyway?

If you want to get bothered about boilerplate in employment contracts, get pissed off about drug-testing and the whole guilty-until-proven innocent mindset it fosters.

Re:Embarrassed? (1, Insightful)

azuredrake (1069906) | about 6 years ago | (#25408919)

No, what bothers me is that I intimately understand the direct connection between piracy of a PC title en masse and the ensuing lack of employment of people who worked on said title if it underperforms "as a result". I'm not saying I agree with that proposed causal relationship, and I certainly understand that not every stolen copy is a lost sale - actually, almost everyone I've talked to in the business agrees - but piracy does hurt real people who make games, and therefore also dampens the quality of PC titles and the enthusiasm for the platform across the board.

It's a real problem out there.

Re:Embarrassed? (1)

Psychotria (953670) | about 6 years ago | (#25408979)

I agree with that proposed causal relationship, and I certainly understand that not every stolen copy is a lost sale actually, almost everyone I've talked to in the business agrees

and

It's a real problem out there.

What is the problem? You said it yourself that it's not a problem and then turned around and said it was.

Re:Embarrassed? (1)

azuredrake (1069906) | about 6 years ago | (#25409017)

I'm saying the following:

Not every person who pirates a given game would buy it if they could not get it for free.

A fair number of casual pirates would, in fact, buy a game they wanted to play if they could not steal it.

Piracy adversely affects the PC Game industry by providing a disincentive to publishers to publish on the PC platform, and indirectly affects the lives of game company employees whose companies receive lower revenues due to pirated copies.

My personal guess is that 30-40% of pirated copies are lost sales, and the rest either eventually buy if they like the game or wouldn't have the means/convenience to purchase it if they could not steal it. But I'd need good, real methodical data on that (which frankly doesn't exist) to speak more authoritatively.

Re:Embarrassed? (2, Interesting)

Psychotria (953670) | about 6 years ago | (#25409029)

Piracy adversely affects the PC Game industry by providing a disincentive to publishers to publish on the PC platform, and indirectly affects the lives of game company employees whose companies receive lower revenues due to pirated copies

As you said yourself: no substantial data exists. If you believe that you're getting paid less because of piracy then it may just be because your employer wants you to believe that. An employer who doesn't pay you what your worth? That's unheard of. And, no disrepect, but to even guess that "30-40% of pirated copies are lost sales" is just that... a guess. My personal guess would be about 1%. So, who's right?

Re:Embarrassed? (1)

azuredrake (1069906) | about 6 years ago | (#25409085)

I meant more that I have friends in the industry whose teams have had cuts after revenue for their PC game wasn't high enough, and that there was high piracy on that particular game. It was a couple years back. I'm not underpaid, and I wouldn't stand for being swindled into getting underpaid either. ;)

And you're totally right, it is just a guess - and maybe being inside the industry instead of outside skews my perception. I'd love if an academic institution could run studies on it that were unbiased so we could all geek out at them in excel.

Out of curiosity though, what do you think of my second supposition, that if games could not be pirated they would be bought more? I know you said you feel it'd be closer to 1%, but why do you feel that people would not pay to play most of the games that are being put out today? And what games WOULD you pay to play, and why?

Re:Embarrassed? (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | about 6 years ago | (#25409185)

Hell, I think that if they could not be pirated, then sales would be less then they are now.
I believe this for 2 simple reasons:

1) The pirates who would pay would also be attracted to any competing free games instead and those would become even better than they are now (see the argument that should MS ever really turn the screws on their product activation, that would just boost linux usage).

2) The pirates who do pay - as in they treat a bootleg like an extended demo - won't even bother to risk their money and will spend it on other forms of entertainment entirely.

Re:Embarrassed? (1)

Pvt_Ryan (1102363) | about 6 years ago | (#25410023)

Personally the games I aquire via means other than retail are extended demos, if I like I buy. However there are some games I have that I wouldn't say are good, they are amusing. I would never in a million years buy them, but as I aquired them for nothing I will play them.

It is not lost revenue as the companies would have it, as I never intended to purchase the game, nor would I ever purchase it, so how is that lost revenue?

Re:Embarrassed? (1)

cliffski (65094) | about 6 years ago | (#25409353)

You are delusional if you really think only 1% of people who spend days downloading ripped copies of crysis, who own a machine that will play that game, would buy it if they couldn't pirate it.

Pirates always kid themselves they wouldn't have bought the game, because if they don't tell themselves that they realise they are just stealing.

(Insert lame and totally retarded comment about !I just copied it!111 here)

Re:Embarrassed? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25409409)

You are delusional if you really think only 1% of people who spend days downloading ripped copies of crysis, who own a machine that will play that game, would buy it if they couldn't pirate it.

Pirates always kid themselves they wouldn't have bought the game, because if they don't tell themselves that they realise they are just stealing.

(Insert lame and totally retarded comment about !I just copied it!111 here)

You have no idea how many games I've downloaded, burned to a disc, and then never touched again. Obviously I wasn't going to buy those games. I couldn't even be bothered to load them up and play them. I buy about 6 or 7 games a year, and probably pirate twice that many.

The problem is that I just never actually get around to playing them. Or they get installed, played for an hour or so, and then wiped because they just aren't really interesting enough to play. Bioshock is a good example of that. I played it for a few hours one evening, then never touched it again. Seems like more and more games are coming out that just aren't even worth playing.

No way I'm putting money down without trying them first. Need to make sure that they'll even run to begin with. Demos don't cut it. They tend to hint at possibilities that just don't materialize. Things that were hyped by the developer, but end up being bullshit. Again, Bioshock is a good example. So is Oblivion with its revolutionary *snort* Radiant AI. I swear I was going to just stab every fucker that talked about hating mud crabs. If developers would quit fucking lying to us, stop using DRM that doesn't even affect pirates, stop preventing us from returning a game that doesn't work, and stop preventing us from re-selling a game when we're done with it, I don't think I'd have any real reason to pirate games anymore.

Re:Embarrassed? (1)

mathew7 (863867) | about 6 years ago | (#25409791)

Your logic needs more information:
when a game/publisher has low revenues, it's investors will retreat, meaning more money lost (to the company). That in turn means people have to settle for lower pays or numbers. That is indirectly related to quality of work.
So piracy of a game does not affect that game (maybe it's support), but it does affect it's sequel (or other game on which work is done).
And that is the biggest problem. So a low-sale game will most likely affect badly the quality of the next game.
This is why in many .nfo files it's written "support the developers, buy the game".

Re:Embarrassed? (5, Insightful)

dsanfte (443781) | about 6 years ago | (#25409033)

I have good news. I found someone who stole one of your games, and he has agreed to mail you back the bits you're missing. I just need a return address.

Re:Embarrassed? (2, Insightful)

Zironic (1112127) | about 6 years ago | (#25409973)

3-40% of pirated copies is a silly number, where would that kind of money come from? All the pirates I know already spends alot of money on games/movies/music, they can't materialize money out of thin air to pay for the content they're currently pirating.

Re:Embarrassed? (1)

shinmai (632532) | about 6 years ago | (#25409015)

It's a real low-blow to label pirated copies as stolen, and even indirectly imply that some pirated copies could be lost sales.

There's no-one out there who seriously considers whether to buy or pirate a game, and just decides to save a few bucks.

I buy games I actually play more than once or twice, just like I buy movies I actually like and want to have on my shelf. If I pirate a game, I'm either buying the game in a few days or deleting it.

I don't think my philosophy is more acceptable than pirating everything and anything, but I don't think either way the pirated copies are potential sales.

I'm way too tired to compose my opinions in any intelligent manner. tl;dr: piracy isn't lost sales, ever.

Re:Embarrassed? (1)

azuredrake (1069906) | about 6 years ago | (#25409057)

Thought exercise:

If the internet did not exist and you could not pirate any given game, would you

A.) Not buy a game you were fairly interested in but not positive about?

or

B.) Buy a game you were fairly interested in but not positive about?

If you're like most people, I'm guessing the answer is that sometimes you would do A, sometimes B. I know this is how I buy my games - If it's made by BioWare, Obsidian, or Blizzard it's pretty much a must-have, and if it's made by someone else but looks like it might be pretty good, it's a coin toss.

The point is, though, that if one could not steal games, one would probably buy them more often.

Re:Embarrassed? (5, Insightful)

shinmai (632532) | about 6 years ago | (#25409095)

Not to nitpick, but I was pirating WAY before I had internet access (actually, more then than now). As to your question: C) No demo=no purchase.

I won't pay for something unless I know I want it. If I buy meat from a butcher and it's not good, I'll get my money back. That option is not available to me as a consumer with software, so I try before I buy.

Re:Embarrassed? (1)

azuredrake (1069906) | about 6 years ago | (#25409175)

I appreciate your response - I'll remember to always publish demos of my independently produced titles in the future.

Re:Embarrassed? (3, Insightful)

Danse (1026) | about 6 years ago | (#25409499)

Thought exercise:

If the internet did not exist and you could not pirate any given game, would you

A.) Not buy a game you were fairly interested in but not positive about?

or

  B.) Buy a game you were fairly interested in but not positive about?

If you're like most people, I'm guessing the answer is that sometimes you would do A, sometimes B.

If you're like me, you've been burned too many times in the past to ever trust most developers again. With only a couple of exceptions who I give the benefit of the doubt to, I have to try a game before I will decide whether to buy it or not. Even if I get home and it won't run at all, I can't return it.

Developers think that all they have to do is entice you with enough bullshit hype about how awesome their game is to get you to buy it, and then when you realize that they were bullshitting all along, they already have your money and you can't return it.

Even a demo can be made to seem awesome, and make you think that if you could just keep playing a bit further you'd get to experience the awesomeness that they've been telling you about for the last couple years. But you'll probably be wrong. Maybe I'm jaded now, but it's asshole developers (and really publishers more often than developers) that have made me that way.

Re:Embarrassed? (2, Insightful)

Danse (1026) | about 6 years ago | (#25409311)

No, what bothers me is that I intimately understand the direct connection between piracy of a PC title en masse and the ensuing lack of employment of people who worked on said title if it underperforms "as a result". I'm not saying I agree with that proposed causal relationship, and I certainly understand that not every stolen copy is a lost sale - actually, almost everyone I've talked to in the business agrees - but piracy does hurt real people who make games, and therefore also dampens the quality of PC titles and the enthusiasm for the platform across the board.

It's a real problem out there.

The counter-argument to that is that DRM hurts your customers in very real ways as well, while it has little to no impact on pirates. Hell, I can't even play my copy of UT2004 now because I lost my CD key last time I moved. What else do I own that I could permanently lose just because I can't find a little card with like 16 characters on it?

Re:Embarrassed? (1)

azuredrake (1069906) | about 6 years ago | (#25409415)

Agreed, DRM sucks. It seriously harms real, legitimate consumers. I'm not trying to say DRM is good, just trying to demonstrate to at least some readers that piracy has real world negative consequences as well.

Re:Embarrassed? (1)

Briareos (21163) | about 6 years ago | (#25409671)

Hell, I can't even play my copy of UT2004 now because I lost my CD key last time I moved. What else do I own that I could permanently lose just because I can't find a little card with like 16 characters on it?

Boo-fucking-hoo.

Exactly what prevented you from making a backup of those "16 characters"? Definitely not Epic, but you act like it's their fault. And since it's their servers you connect to they have every right to have you authenticate with the CD key they supplied with the manual - is that too much to ask?

Sorry, but it's not as if CD keys themselves were copy protected in any way, shape or form - it takes like ten or fifteen seconds to make a backup by typing them into a text file that you back up with the rest of your important stuff...

Re:Embarrassed? (1)

Danse (1026) | about 6 years ago | (#25409687)

Exactly what prevented you from making a backup of those "16 characters"? Definitely not Epic, but you act like it's their fault. And since it's their servers you connect to they have every right to have you authenticate with the CD key they supplied with the manual - is that too much to ask?

I could lose the deed to my fucking house and get another copy of it. Yet I can't get another cd key to play a 50 dollar game? Something is fucked up.

Re:Embarrassed? (1)

cephah (1244770) | about 6 years ago | (#25409975)

Do you complain to your locksmith when you throw away the key to your house, somehow claiming it's his fault you can't get back into your house?

Re:Embarrassed? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25409709)

I also work in the games industry, for a large international company. Games are my number one hobby by a long shot (specifically PC gaming), and practically all my spare cash generally goes toward supporting that hobby.

I also pirate.

My main reason is just simply money. If I have plenty to throw around, I'll buy stuff. If not, my non-essential purchases go down. I'll still buy the odd game, but I'll be less inclined to take 'risks', purchasing only games I know that I am going to thoroughly enjoy and have reviewed well. I don't really consider piracy to be THAT different than borrowing a copy from a friend, which everyone is well within their rights to do (although DRM is gradually robbing us of this right). And besides, I've lost count of the number of games I've pirated and enjoyed the game so much I went out and bought it. Fairly often this has also led to release-day purchases of sequels from the same developer.

Less awesome (but still good) games that I don't buy this way I usually end up buying about a year down the line second hand. Of course, the original developer/publisher won't get my cash from this but it all feeds back into the same system. Where do you think that trade-in cash goes when people sell their games? Probably straight into new games (certainly the case on the very few times I've done so). Though I suppose the way DRM is headed means that this market will probably die in the next few years, which is a shame.

Altogether though, I suppose I pirate more than anyone else I know. However, and this is an important point to me, I also spend more money on games than everyone I know combined. Sure, I have a stack of copied DVDs but I have bookshelves full of games to make up for it (I must own a minimum of 300 titles now). I can't give any more to the games industry than I already do, if I stopped pirating there wouldn't be any extra money to be gained from me. When the game I'm working on is done and released, I won't REALLY mind if people pirate it. If it's that or not seeing my work at all I know which I'd prefer. All I have to say is go in peace, and if you really like it, buy it!

As a closing note (and final irony) I have no doubt that the game I'm working on will have DRM come retail. Of course we'll have free retail copies passed around the office. However since I can't stand fracking DRM I'll probably end up pirating/cracking the very thing I will have spent the last 2 1/2 years of my life working on. I'm not quite comfortable with the idea of sneaking out a pre-securom version of the .exe files from the office so I guess I'll be heading off to gamecopyworld again. Which will no doubt have at least 3 no-cd workarounds a week before the thing is even in the shops.

Re:Embarrassed? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25408831)

Honestly, I'd be embarrassed to admit I'd bought a copy of Spore considering the limitations of the DRM and the fact that it's installed malware like SecureRom. The people who have torrented DRM-free copies are already laughing at the people who have already hit their 5-install limit.

Just like I'd be embarrassed if I had bought music from Microsoft or Yahoo a few years ago, then found out that they're shutting down the license servers so that I have no way of listening to copies of songs I've purchased. People who listen to copies of those same songs downloaded from Kazaa are laughing at them.

Pay attention to the lesson here folks. If you buy something that comes with copy protection, you are being scammed just as surely as if you were to send your life savings to the nice man from Nigeria that sends you so many emails. If there is no legitimate method of buying it that doesn't include DRM, then don't buy it at all.

Re:Embarrassed? (1)

Rennt (582550) | about 6 years ago | (#25408899)

I know exactly what you mean, I bought a copy of Bioshock, and have regretted it ever since.

I guess I learnt my lesson though, EA didn't get any money from me for Spore, and won't get anything from me for Red Alert 3 either.

Re:Embarrassed? (1)

servognome (738846) | about 6 years ago | (#25409051)

But who can honestly say those who pirate rampantly are going to buy the damn games anyway? Most of them I assume are kids who don't even have an income in the first place.

So if you don't have income you can decide to not follow the rules? Does that mean kids should be allowed to sneak into theaters or into concerts? The problem really isn't that people who normally wouldn't buy the product, it's that if they allow those people to pirate, many of those who would buy will also pirate.

ething that still confuses me are the kids nowadays that come in chanting copyright slogans and poo-pooing on people who bit torrent stuff. That grade-school brainwashing really does work wonders...

Unfortunately, like other complex issues we end up with people moving to debate to the extremes. The industry with their "any copying is illegal" and copyright infringers with their "information should be free."
The economic reality is somewhere in the middle, and people with moderate interests like you who use unauthorized copying for a valid reason get stuck in the middle. People who media shift, preview, or backup are getting their existing rights taken away because of the extremists.

Re:Embarrassed? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25409091)

"That grade-school brainwashing really does work wonders..."

Hey, don't copy that floppy! [youtube.com]

Re:Embarrassed? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25409093)

>Something that still confuses me are the kids nowadays that come in chanting copyright slogans and poo-pooing on people who bit torrent stuff.

Visit Russia sometimes, you'll feel at ease :)

Re:Embarrassed? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25409501)

Not embarrassed at all. I was unemployed for a few years and when i got my first computer
I remember installing Windows 95 (cracked) for the first time and discovering that there were no programs on it. We got a copy of Quake (which we played through many times over a couple of years), then Quake 2. When i got a job i began to buy a few games - Wolfenstein, Doom 3 particularly. I even bought a copy of XP at the start of this year, though the same day i finally made the move to linux. Pirating is a way of testing the product over a long time sothat whe you can eventally afford to buy you know what to get.

Re:Embarrassed? (1)

Morlark (814687) | about 6 years ago | (#25409783)

Developers are not losing any money on Piracy from me. I truly wish that were the case for everyone, and we probably wouldn't be in this predicament.

Ah, there you go, expecting people to be reasonable. No, I get the distinct impression that so long as a convenient scapegoat exists, someone will try to blame it for everything, up to and including eating your babies. Piracy is just the scapegoat du jour.

Needs to include... (1)

Shadow of Eternity (795165) | about 6 years ago | (#25408747)

Wong and Haimoimoi's gamer manifesto. Also, I maintain my position that this is just a pathetic publicity stunt and they're just as much of a bunch of hypocritical bastards as everyone else because of how readily they jumped into bed with GPG, who are barely respected even by their own forum moderators for violating pretty much every single one of these terms.

Re:Needs to include... (1)

azuredrake (1069906) | about 6 years ago | (#25408825)

We'll have to see how their GPG release goes, though. Stardock has real integrity to date, such that I see genuine word-of-mouth support for them on all manner of forums, pushing Sins and Gal Civ and The Witcher: Enhanced Edition (through impulse) instead of DRM laden titles.

I think they know they have real money value in these values if they stick to them, and they'd be foolish to throw away that money value, especially since they limit themselves to the PC market only (where piracy is much more rampant).

Re:Needs to include... (1)

Shadow of Eternity (795165) | about 6 years ago | (#25408945)

The problem is that they're making a game with GPG that afaik will work on GPGnet. Just because of GPGnet itself they've absolutely broken 1, 2, 3, 4, 8, and 10 and arguably broken 5 and 8.

GPG doesn't even consider it a problem that GPGnet is outright non-functional in many ways. The most obvious and representative example I can think of off the top of my head is the SupCom replay manager. Using their own built-in system results in a file that their own game is incapable of running, you need to manually redo every filename. That's how GPG rolls, honestly I'd buy another Battlefield shovelware game before I'd buy another game from GPG.

Re:Needs to include... (1)

nschubach (922175) | about 6 years ago | (#25408963)

Stardock has real integrity to date ... pushing Sins and Gal Civ and The Witcher: Enhanced Edition (through impulse) instead of DRM laden titles.

Except for the fact that Impulse/Stardock Central is DRM...

I will explain it again, and post a link to the image if you don't trust me. I cannot freely move my Gal Civ2 Files from one PC to another without having to re-install or activate. It will come up with a message about the SID not matching the hardware when I delete the sig.bin and/or move the files to my Wine box:
Wine: http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/5128/screenshotgalacticcivilex5.png [imageshack.us]
Windows Activation Screen: http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/8435/stardockactivationeo1.png [imageshack.us] ...and yes, for the record, it does work with just the files in the install directory. A certain... workaround... to this problem proves this but I won't go into details here.

Re:Needs to include... (1)

dupont54 (857462) | about 6 years ago | (#25409555)

Yup exactly. Stardock uses basically the same tricks as other activation system.
The only difference is that the orignal version of their games on the CD is not protected, the DRM only kicks in after a certain patch level. Then it's the same hardware-binding shit with more or less controlled number of installs like everywhere else.

Re:Needs to include... (1)

Morlark (814687) | about 6 years ago | (#25409759)

Except for the fact that Impulse/Stardock Central is DRM...

Maybe I'm just reading you wrong here, but I can't help but feel that you're trying to obfuscate the issue by drawing inadquately supported conclusions, as well as twisting Stardock's words to say something they don't. Stardock aren't saying "DRM is teh evil, we must shun it", nor are they saying "Gamers have the right to do whatever the hell they want with whatever the hell they want". All that they seem to be saying is that gamers have a right to play games without an undue amount of hassle, not that developers/publishers have to bend over backwards to accede to their every whim. Reactivating your install when you move it to a new PC or delete the sig.bin (the first of which is a new install, the second of which is basically un-activating your install, both of which would therefore legitemately require you to reactivate) is not an unreasonable hassle.

So why don't you just reactivate it then? Sounds to me that you just like complaining for the sake of complaining. Because, by the way, you still haven't proven why this activation system means that Impusle is DRM. Why is it so different from a CD key check. Just because it's online? No, that's not what DRM means. If you had a limited number of reactivations, or if it prevented you from playing on another PC at all, then sure, that would be DRM. But that's not what it does. This activation scheme is functionally no different than the CD key checks of old, and that is not DRM. It's not even an unreasonable request. Or at least, if you believe it to be unreasonable, then that is purely your opinion, and that has no bearing on the fact that this scheme does not violate their Gamers Bill of Rights, nor does it permit you to arbitrarily change the meaning of DRM to mean whatever you want it to.

I am embarassed! at the mtv article (0)

Vexorian (959249) | about 6 years ago | (#25408753)

The anti-gaming-piracy movement needs to find a way to make people feel about pirating games the way more and more of us feel about not separating our garbage from our recycling.

How about a warm cup of fuck off? Really, reading this article has made me sick. It is saying that there should be some sort of eco-consciousness like PROGRAMMING on people so that they feel guilty about piracy. News flash: Piracy, unlike throwing garbage doesn't really harm anyone!

No, people don't pirate to save themselves 60 $us that they could pay, they pirate because they simply wouldn't be able to pay for it, or maybe because the game has been so horribly ruined by DRM that you need to pirate it in order to actually play it. No, nobody does piracy to boycott the company making the game, surprise! THE COMPANY IS NOT LOSING SALES it is earning players...

Re:I am embarassed! at the mtv article (1)

azuredrake (1069906) | about 6 years ago | (#25408813)

Piracy, unlike throwing garbage doesn't really harm anyone!

Unless you work for a game company whose revenues are down, copies pirated on the main torrent sites are way up, and is a publicly traded company so may legally be required to lay off employees to shore up their balance sheet...

No, people don't pirate to save themselves 60 $us that they could pay, they pirate because they simply wouldn't be able to pay for it, or maybe because the game has been so horribly ruined by DRM that you need to pirate it in order to actually play it.

Categorically untrue. I'm sure many people do pirate a game because they wouldn't be able to afford it otherwise, and I know I've used no-cd patches to make my media last longer, but I'm JUST as sure that people do pirate games just to avoid spending money on them, even if their budgets could easily afford the 30 to 60 dollars it would cost them.

THE COMPANY IS NOT LOSING SALES it is earning players...

The company doesn't want non-paying players - that's just people who incur support costs without paying for them at all. The company wants you to buy the game, if you want it badly enough to play it.

Re:I am embarassed! at the mtv article (1)

Rennt (582550) | about 6 years ago | (#25408989)

Unless you work for a game company whose revenues are down, copies pirated on the main torrent sites are way up, and is a publicly traded company so may legally be required to lay off employees to shore up their balance sheet...

There will always be a baseline level of copyright infringers (I hate to use the term "pirate"). but if the number of people sharing a particular title is "way up" above the average (Spore) you have to ask what is so special about that title - could it be the cruel and unusual limitations placed upon it?

If the publishers were being honest, they would admit that this kind of DRM has nothing to do with stopping sharing, and everything to do with controlling customers.

Customers are just getting wise to the scam... in the case of Spore-type DRM I really believe that the publishers create "pirates" out of totally honest customers that just want a fair deal.

Re:I am embarassed! at the mtv article (1)

NickFortune (613926) | about 6 years ago | (#25409515)

Piracy, unlike throwing garbage doesn't really harm anyone!

Unless you work for a game company whose revenues are down, copies pirated on the main torrent sites are way up, and is a publicly traded company so may legally be required to lay off employees to shore up their balance sheet...

Mmmm... you've mad that assertion a few times in this discussion. Just out of interest, do you have any specific examples of good, well publicised games that sold poorly, but for which the torrenting counts were high?

The general impression I get, (and this is utterly uninformed I admit), is that good games sell if they have enough marketing behind them. If you can offer some evidence to the contrary, it would add a lot of weight to your argument.

Re:I am embarassed! at the mtv article (1)

w32jon (1317789) | about 6 years ago | (#25409041)

Another comparison could be:

If you go to a restaurant, you don't have to tip your waiter anything. Yet many people would feel bad if the waiter was decent and they left nothing.

Neither the waiter nor the game company work for free, they really you to tip them or pay for their games, and they can't really make any money if you don't.

THE COMPANY IS NOT LOSING SALES it is earning players...

I'll admit that I've personally pirated games I would've bought otherwise, and I'm sure there are plenty of other people who have done the same. Game companies are certainly losing sales to piracy, maybe not as many in reality as they claim, but it happens.

Re:I am embarassed! at the mtv article (5, Insightful)

QuantumG (50515) | about 6 years ago | (#25409081)

I love it when Americans make the tipping analogy, because it's so apt. You are aware that the American system of tipping is insane, right? The rest of the world think you're all fuckin' nuts when you go on about this stuff. There's nothing normal about refusing to pay your staff a reasonable rate and then demanding the customer get involved in compensating them.

Re:I am embarassed! at the mtv article (2, Interesting)

DeadChobi (740395) | about 6 years ago | (#25409765)

I like the tipping system here.

I've been at restaurants where waitresses invade my personal space by touching me or rubbing on me while handing other diners their food, and I just refuse to tip them because of that. Usually they do it because they think it gets them more tips if they make me want to have sex with them. That kind of manipulation really pisses me off. Remember that this is an example of why I like the tipping system.

Another reason why I like the system here is that if I really like the service someone gave me, I can say so by giving them a larger than average tip.

I stray into off-topic land (2, Informative)

Macthorpe (960048) | about 6 years ago | (#25409795)

There's nothing normal about refusing to pay your staff a reasonable rate and then demanding the customer get involved in compensating them.

I can only quote you in the name of truth. The moment the UK government found out that was happening here they started taking steps to make it illegal [guardian.co.uk] , as it damn well should be.

Re:I am embarassed! at the mtv article (3, Interesting)

vadim_t (324782) | about 6 years ago | (#25409877)

If you go to a restaurant, you don't have to tip your waiter anything. Yet many people would feel bad if the
waiter was decent and they left nothing.

No, being a decent waiter is the waiter's job, and they don't deserve any extra for doing what they're supposed to do. If they don't earn enough then they should go and demand more from their employer.

A tip is not a tip if it's mandatory. A tip is used to reward exceptional service. Simply serving food or mechanically pouring a beer or cup of coffee is not exceptional service. Now, when a taxi driver spent a while figuring out how to fit the large CRT I had bought into the car and helped me carry it up, that was very exceptional service and appropiately rewarded.

Re:I am embarassed! at the mtv article (0, Offtopic)

TubeSteak (669689) | about 6 years ago | (#25409139)

The anti-gaming-piracy movement needs to find a way to make people feel about pirating games the way more and more of us feel about not separating our garbage from our recycling.

That same line caught my eye.

The difference between DRM & recycling is that I can choose to recycle. There is no recycling nazi that tells me I can't put my garbage on the curb unless the recycling is sorted out (hello Britain, sucks to be you [google.com] ).

I can't choose to buy Spore, Mass Effect, The Sims, BioShock, etc etc etc sans DRM.
 
::Full Disclosure:: My County mandates that garbage companies do a weekly recycling pickup and the County mandates that I pay for garbage pickup... so I have to pay for garbage & recycling whether I put anything on the curb or not. No wonder organized crime loves the sanitation industry.

Peer-2-peer pressure? (1)

shinmai (632532) | about 6 years ago | (#25408763)

I don't get this Stephen Totilo guy. The whole "gamer-pride"-post is obviously a huge flamebait, but I can't help but wonder if he honestly feels that software piracy could be stopped if only we had more public service announcements like the "You wouldn't steal..."-ads in beginning of DVDs. Most pirates think peer pressure is when the leechers outnumber the seeders on a torrent... Smokey the Bear going 'Only you can stop burning discs' won't do much good here. (It's Smokey, right? I'm not quite up to date on the latest crying indian-franchise)

Re:Peer-2-peer pressure? (1)

Sobrique (543255) | about 6 years ago | (#25409887)

I hate getting an advert for piracy on a DVD I've bought legitimately. They're almost always 'no-skip', and are berating me for ... having bought their product legitimately.

I find that annoying, and I'd be inclined to pirate stuff just to get rid of it.

pride shame (5, Insightful)

MellowTigger (633958) | about 6 years ago | (#25408799)

From the article...

But what's keeping all those gamers out there who don't pirate their games from standing up and saying they pay for what they play? From making not being a pirate a point of pride?

I paid for Spore. The DRM crashed my game. The seemingly incomplete game was enjoyable for as much as it accomplished. But I feel like a sucker for having paid money on it. I don't feel pride; I feel a small twinge of something akin to shame. I helped Electronic Arts dumb down a game (so they can piecemeal add-ons to eventually yield a complete game, sometime in the future) and distribute it with DRM (which interfered in my gameplay, which the pirated version would not have done). I helped them because I can't control my addiction to gaming.

That's why the cultural front would be a losing battle. To do the "legal" thing, I have to feel slightly embarrassed and used and out of control.

Re:pride shame (1)

cliffski (65094) | about 6 years ago | (#25409365)

The game crashed, what makes you assume it was the DRM?

Re:pride shame (1)

Morlark (814687) | about 6 years ago | (#25409807)

I think he's basing that conclusion on some early reports (later disproven, IIRC) that the pirate version of the game did not suffer from the egregious crashing problem that plagued the game.

Re:pride shame (1)

Dr_Barnowl (709838) | about 6 years ago | (#25409995)

I feel the same ; I bought Mass Effect (only when it came down to half it's published price, but still, I didn't like myself).

It's a great game, but I felt ashamed to be supporting EA. I also felt uncomfortable with the activation scheme - it's definitely dampening my ardour for a new GPU, because that will require me to burn an activation.

Games are the only things keeping a "real" Windows install on my disk now. I need Windows for work, but I'm prepared to run it in a virtual machine if necessary. The software I write is cross-platform (and runs much faster on Linux, given the same hardware). I'm much less interested in gaming in general. The few games that actually get Linux ports would probably be enough to satisfy me (and be something to look forward to, instead of the almost limitless choice on Windows).

Maybe I should just grow up and kick the gaming habit ; the big publishers seem to want that, they are taking all the joy out of it.

What we need is an ingredient list (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25408811)

On the back of games.... this is what the game contains software wise...

and this is what changes the game will make to your system.

Inform the consumer of what kind of crap they are putting in their body/pc. Then the company has the ability to say it's on the box and the consumer can decide do I want more of the same or move on to something with a better ingredients list.

SEX TAPE! (-1, Offtopic)

Jenny _riveraXxX (1387681) | about 6 years ago | (#25408815)

Hey, you'll love it. TOTALLY SHOCKING Jenny Rivera original video >> http://www.diggmedia.net/index.php?q=Jenny-Rivera [diggmedia.net] no comments...

Re:SEX TAPE! (1)

Toonol (1057698) | about 6 years ago | (#25408969)

Check out parent post's post history. It's all spam. I'm sure he'll get modded down to -1, but does slashdot ever completely ban these sorts of posters?

Face it (0, Flamebait)

Nightspirit (846159) | about 6 years ago | (#25408859)

Some of you are not going to be happy unless they release the source code, allow you to do anything you want with it, release it on every platform (even ones in which it would be financially infeasible to do so), or a bunch of other fantasy pipe dreams. Lets get realistic.

Re:Face it (4, Insightful)

QuantumG (50515) | about 6 years ago | (#25408985)

It's be fucking nice if they did release source code. What's the harm? Carmack did it.

Their stuff sounds worse than DRM (2, Interesting)

Animats (122034) | about 6 years ago | (#25408951)

Their games require you to run "Impulse", and the "Impulse Dock", which is a browser-like client that only talks to Stardock. It has blogs, downloads, and such, and is required for updates to their games. It's like one of those background services required to run many games, only it's in your face.

This is progress?

Re:Their stuff sounds worse than DRM (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25409293)

At least it's in your face and not in your back.

Wait... both would hurt...

Why marked as troll? (4, Insightful)

Scott Kevill (1080991) | about 6 years ago | (#25409341)

The parent is correct. Their games do require you to run their Impulse client to download game updates.

A recent update to Impulse did actually install background services without asking the user's permission. This was their solution to slow app launch times, by invisibly launching the service at boot time, rather than actually fixing the problem.

Re:Their stuff sounds worse than DRM (1)

Rakishi (759894) | about 6 years ago | (#25409475)

I gotta agree, I don't mind the concept involved so much as that simply find Impulse to be a particularly bad piece of shit. I find the UI unintuitive, I find the UI ugly, it's slow, it has visual bugs, it has bugs period, it has a lovely random jumble of settings, it doesn't tell me what it's doing (ie: reading all 6gb of game data while saying it's "downloading" an update), etc.

Hello, first sale doctrine? (5, Insightful)

Spy der Mann (805235) | about 6 years ago | (#25409163)

If I purchase a copy of the game, I *DO* own it. Otherwise, I have the right to get a replacement and or refund if my CD or DVD gets scratched. Does that really happen? I don't think so.

If we gave money and got a CD, it's not a license. It's a sale. Especially when you go to the website and see the words "purchase", "order" and "buy". See Vernor v. Autodesk [citizen.org] . A good review of the decision is available at http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080523-court-smacks-autodesk-affirms-right-to-sell-used-software.html [arstechnica.com]

So what DRM is really about, is an attempt at circumventing the first sale doctrine. Therefore, it should be declared illegal.

Re:Hello, first sale doctrine? - it gets worse. (3, Insightful)

thesupraman (179040) | about 6 years ago | (#25409513)

Go read up on copyright, as part of the 'deal' that is copyright, the rights to the item are supposed to become public after copyright runs out (which is getting longer and longer, but that aint the point).

With DRM, how exactly is the public going to get their free access that has been bought and paid for by supplying (through the state..) the protection of the product during its copyright life?

Any copyright holder who uses DRM that does not time out at the end of copyright is reneging on their half of the contract that is copyright, so why should they get any protection through it?

State Copyright OR Private DRM, I say. No state protection for DRM!

Re:Hello, first sale doctrine? (1)

jimicus (737525) | about 6 years ago | (#25409609)

I noticed that "Gamers should have the right to resell the game" was put in the list of "Illegitimate complaints" with the justification "Not saying reselling programs is right or wrong, only that it is not the function of DRM to make it hard or easy to do this, it's a separate issue."

Regardless of whether the function of DRM is to make this easy or hard, with most current DRM systems, reselling the game is made hard as a side-effect of the DRM. Whether or not that's intentional is something we could argue about all day, and very hard to answer definitively unless one has insider knowledge.

One of the legitimate complaints was: If a program wants to have a limited activation system, then it needs to provide a way to de-authorize other computers (ala iTunes).

If such a de-authorization system existed, then reselling games would be dead easy. In fact, it could even be made to work if the original owner "forgot" to deauthorize their game before reselling it if the authentication part of the DRM was done online.

I'm embarassed by being ripped off time and again. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 years ago | (#25409985)

Theres significant lack of respect for ME when the game company shoves out yet another half finished beta buggy ass game loaded with drm that may or may not cause other problems aside from being annoying... Games that i end up stuck with if i buy it. This embarasses me way more than pirating games.

Lets face it. 80% of the games i 'steal'. end up being deleted within 20 minutes of installing them.

they are crap. they are overpriced unfinished crap. and if i had paid for it to find that out. i'd be stupid.

"Well you could get a demo"
Yeah right. Most demo sites download far far slower than just grabbing a torrent of the game. And a torrent of the full version lets me see exactly what i would be getting if it was good enough to buy.

Look. the games industry brought this crap on themselves. Price per hour of fun has gone up. Quality has gone down. Hardware requirements have gone WAY up. And you treat EVERYONE like a thief right from the start..

Do you REALLY wonder when they start ACTING like thieves?

And you've been stealing from us for years by pushing out crap that we end up stuck with.

Wanna blame somebody for piracy. Blame the games industry practices. They have directly caused this.

It's just not going to happen like that anymore. People are starting to wise up. I suggest the games industry wise up too.

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