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323 comments

Or... (4, Insightful)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440443)

They could use the money and get more bandwidth.

Re:Or... (4, Funny)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440481)

They could spend the money on a slick, feminist ad campaign to get more BEWBIES into engineering school.

Obligatory quote, I suppose (3, Funny)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440683)

Chris: BOOBIES!!
Lois: Chris, That's enough! Well I'm sure glad to be out of there
Peter: You said it Lois, what those people are doing just ain't natural.
Chris: BOOBIES!
Lois: Did you hear me young man?
Meg: I don't know what the big deal was? I thought they were nice.
Chris: BOOBIES!!
Lois: Peter?
Peter: Do it.
(Everybody besides Chris puts on sunglasses and Lois reveals the Neuralizer from Men in Black, and uses it on Chris)
Lois: Did you have fun at the circus today Chris?
Chris: Elephants are bigger in person!

Re:Obligatory quote, I suppose (4, Interesting)

Hojima (1228978) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441441)

I know that a lot of people aren't taking this issue to heart, and a lot of people agree that relative to the university budget, this isn't a lot of money to be spent. However, people need to stop seeing this as a fraction of a large budget, and start seeing it for what it truly is. It isn't until the economy start to depreciate that people see the value of small numbers, and if they would have seen it earlier, it would be helping them out more in desperate times. Just last year, my university paid for Carlos Mencia to do some stand up. Apart from the fact that he's a terrible comedian that did the exact act that anyone can see on comedy central, I'm sure they spent somewhere in the area of the amount that it would cost to keep our multimillion dollar gymnasium a bit cooler for the rest of the year. When you waste that kind of money on something useless, you're not doing your job of keeping university priorities strait. What my university essentially said, is that it's important for some hack to tell everyone that Mexicans eat burritos, so we have to sacrifice comfort when working out. Hell, the robotics club could have used a fraction of that for a better processor on our land vehicle.

Re:Obligatory quote, I suppose (4, Insightful)

theaveng (1243528) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441579)

Good post.

Another example on a more-personal level: I have a credit card that gives me 5% off gasoline and food. It's only ~50 cents per fillup or 5 cents per hamburger, which is no big deal, but those pennies quickly accumulate. In just this year alone, I've received $300 in rebates. That's enough money to pay three months worth of electricity bills.

Small amounts add-up to big amounts. Small wastes add-up to huge wastes & internal corruption.

Re:Obligatory quote, I suppose (3, Funny)

tftp (111690) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441681)

In just this year alone, I've received $300 in rebates.

Then you either filled your car up about 600 times per last year (twice a day) or you ate 6,000 hamburgers (20 per day.) Those are amazing numbers!

Re:Obligatory quote, I suppose (3, Interesting)

TheSambassador (1134253) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441713)

Parent is right on the dot. My school recently spent about $100,000 bringing some rap groups (Three-Six Mafia and some other guy) for a free concert for our school. Of course, our tuition fees are still only going up... yet it's hard to see why some of this stuff is necessary.

Why do universities spend so much on P2P? Is it just to avoid the legal fees of the RIAA possibly going after them? Couldn't they just allocate a certain amount of bandwidth to each student (maybe like 512k or so) and let them do whatever they want with it?

Re:Or... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25440753)

As a female student in engineering school, :p

Re:Or... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25440533)

Or college students could pay for their entertainment?

Oh, wait. Those ZOMG MPAA RIAA corporate BUTTFUCKERS don't pay the artists, why should I? I'll stick it to THE MANG in a bold stand of civil protest and refuse to fill their coffers by supporting their products! ...just as soon as my "Iron Man" torrent finishes.

Re:Or... (1)

mrsteveman1 (1010381) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441729)

Apparently you missed the part where they are paying for it either way, by having part of their tuition go toward protecting the RIAA and MPAA.

Re:Or... (3, Funny)

FiveDozenWhales (1360717) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440541)

The solution is obvious: the only way to ensure 100% compliance with HEA mandates is to cut off internet access altogether. That'll save the $100k policing costs AND a whole bunch in bandwidth fees!

Plus, a lot less papers citing Wikipedia as a reference.

Re:Or... (2, Insightful)

theaveng (1243528) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440949)

Or...

Limit bandwidth access to just 128 kbit/s per dormroom. Although it's technically possible to do P2P sharing at that speed, most students won't bother, and that reduces the necessity to police the lines to almost nothing. More importantly that speed is still fast enough to hear streaming radio, access youtube, and/or check class websites.

If the students complain, and they will, advise them that the college internet is only meant to be used for learning, not for stealing movies or tv shows. Also advise them they might want to consider off-campus housing next year; then they can buy 6000 kbit/s internet if that's what they want.

Re:Or... (4, Insightful)

Dan667 (564390) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441171)

Nice call there, except not everyone is stealing when they use the internet. If you are doing any work on big data projects like astrophysics, etc you would use a lot of bandwidth

Sony, EMI, Warner Bros, and Universal are stealing from Education, Tax Payers, and Musicians. Feel free to spread that.

Re:Or... (-1)

theaveng (1243528) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441309)

>>>not everyone is stealing when they use the internet.

Correct. And for those who are not stealing, they don't need any more than 128 kbit/s line. That's MORE than enough speed for emailing text or accessing websites. Heck, I access websites using a 50k phoneline, and it works just fine. Why a student "needs" (keyword) more than 128k makes no sense to me.

>
>>>If you are doing any work on big data projects like astrophysics, etc you would use a lot of bandwidth
>

You don't do that stuff from your dormroom. At least, I didn't. I did major bandwidth-intensive projects in the professor's laboratory, which of course had no speed limit.

Re:Or... (4, Informative)

michrech (468134) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441621)

The college for which I work limits internet bandwidth in the dorms to 384kb/s per port. We still have many port disconnect notices each week due to illegal file sharing.

Access to any other "local" network resources is limited to 100mbit/s (the speed of the majority of our network). This allows them to work on "big data projects like astrophysics", and allows for plenty bandwidth to watch youtube/hulu/etc videos, check email, IM, etc.

Re:Or... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25441195)

> stealing movies or tv shows

Please stop repeating this old bullshit. People copying information from another people, people passing information along to their fellow men are not stealing. They are exchanging information, like people, you know, have always done. You and your alike comming along, calling some of this information (in others people possesion) their "intellectual property" and trying to censor free information exchange between free people in order to make a buck borders on fascism.

Stop this renaming propaganda bullshit already.

Re:Or... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25441513)

> Please stop repeating this old bullshit

I was about to say the same thing to you.

> trying to censor free information exchange between free people in order to make a buck borders on fascism.

Trying to equate downloading T-Pain to Mussolini makes you look like a fucking retard.

And before you start the standard /. boilerplate of "no one guaranteed you the right to make a living at your chosen profession," I just want you to remember that every time an Indian or Chinese dude offer to do your job twice as fast and for pennies. That's just sharing jobs, right? You can still go get another one. It's like they're all still there!

Re:Or... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25441521)

You acquire something that costs money, without paying for it, and against the will of the person who charges money for it. That's stealing. Saying it's just "exchanging information" is like saying a car thief is just "moving atoms around".

Re:Or... (1)

RandUser (799024) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441599)

Except stealing fundamentally requires you to deprive the original owner of their property, which copyright infringement does not. Honestly you need to read up on the subject, this has been rehashed about eleventy brazillion times.

Re:Or... (1)

Xphile101361 (1017774) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441587)

Not all colleges allow students to live off of campus until they fulfilled a certain credit requirement. At my college, you had to basically be of senior standing to move out of the college owned apartments and find your own place.

Ideas like that would really screw students over who are stuck.

Or just bring the "6000kbit/s internet" to dorms (1)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441733)

As other posters have stated, that is not always an option to go off-campus. Bring that option to the dorms at the normal costs as off-campus housing.

No need to enrich those who'd have a captive market with off-campus housing.

What about Google? (2, Insightful)

hostguy2004 (818334) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441803)

Didn't Google start up as a dorm room project?

At one point, Google was using half the college's bandwidth running their search bot. Something people should think about next time they say "limit bandwidth" or "6mbs" is not needed for anything other than downloading MP3s from P2P.

Re:Or... (1)

ub3r n3u7r4l1st (1388939) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440589)

Or better financial aid to reduce student debt and combat rising cost of tuition.

That's my vote. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25440709)

Block P2P and reduce costs.

I really hate these P2P articles and all the folks who defend the tech and the reasons for using it. Let's face it, the only reason P2P is being used is for copyright infringement. I have no sympathy for users of this tech and I really resent having to indirectly pay for its consequences - just because some people "need" to share "their" music.

Thieves.

Re:That's my vote. (1)

ub3r n3u7r4l1st (1388939) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440789)

Not really. You download linux distros through the bittorrent protocol. You watch TV using TVUPlayer, which is a P2P software. I can mention a lot of legitimate uses in *workplace* (including academia). The uses you mention are recreational uses.

Re:That's my vote. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25441197)

You download linux distros through the bittorrent protocol.

This is a really stupid example. If a university is spending $100K/year on .. well .. useless crap, then they can also probably afford to spend $300 on a hard disk. Run a local mirror for the popular distros. That pretty much obsoletes p2p, speeds up the end user experience, and reduces their use of the outside pipes.

Local caching beats the shit out of p2p every time.

Re:Or... (2, Interesting)

Xugumad (39311) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440617)

Or... students could use an academic network for academic purposes only, and get their own bloody network connection if they want to download music? Y'know, just a thought.

Re:Or... (5, Insightful)

Brian Gordon (987471) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440715)

You try living at college for 4 years without using the internet for anything personal.

Re:Or... (5, Funny)

theaveng (1243528) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440991)

When I went to college all I had was a 28 kbit/s line, and I survived all four years. You could survive too on slower access.

I also had to walk uphill, through snow, to get to class.
No, really, I'm serious!
Penn State's snow removal team was not very good.

Re:Or... (5, Funny)

HungryHobo (1314109) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441289)

And they'd move the snow while you were in class so you'd have to walk up hill through snow going home as well :D

Re:Or... (2, Funny)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441437)

When I went to college all I had was a 28 kbit/s line, and I survived all four years. You could survive too on slower access.

I also had to walk uphill, through snow, to get to class.
No, really, I'm serious!
Penn State's snow removal team was not very good.

Luxury!! When I started we had 300 baud modems, not your fancy kilobits.

Of course, we were using line editors. Talk about uphill, both ways, in the snow. :-P

Cheers

Re:Or... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25440723)

At my school at least, the dorms are all on the school network and there is no practical way for students to "get their own bloody network".

Re:Or... (1)

0100010001010011 (652467) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441553)

My sophomore year we decided to do exactly this for our cable. (Which sucked). Someone bought a Dish. Around 4 am one night we got onto the balcony and installed it, ran the wires as close to window outlines as we could and had Satellite TV for about 4 months until some Janitor noticed the wire and told our RA.

Re:Or... (0, Troll)

theaveng (1243528) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441701)

>>>there is no practical way for students to "get their own bloody network".

Sure there is. Move off-campus and buy internet from a private company like Comcast or Cox or Verizon. Of course that also means you'd have to pay your own bills, which is quite a shocker for someone used to getting free stuff, but hey! You gotta grow up sometime.

Or you could stay in the dorm, as I did, and sacrifice some things. I never had anything faster than 28 kbit/s when I was in the dorm, and I survived just fine. No free cable television either. Or heat; I know they had the heat turned-on but it was so miniscule, I still had to stay fully-dressed to keep warm.

You said in high school you wanted to "get out in the real world". Well, this is it. It means not always getting what you want, unless you're willing to pay for it. It also means sometimes you have to obey the landlord's wishes, because it's his property.

Re:Or... (5, Funny)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440729)

And they could hold on to their precious, precious virginity until they're married, stay off those evil reefers and goofballs, turn their darn hippity-hop music down, and get off your lawn.

None of the above will happen in the few remaining years of your lifetime, nor even in theirs.

Re:Or... (1)

The Ultimate Fartkno (756456) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441565)

So now we're also sharing girlfriends? It's not like she's not there when I'm done. Of course I'm none too thrilled about sharing an open-sores girlfriend. You keep her. I think this time it's worth paying for.

Re:Or... (1)

theaveng (1243528) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441761)

I don't see any "up side" to holding on to that. Look at Dr. McKay on Stargate Atlantis: "saving it" sure didn't help him; he's wound tighter than a watchspring.

Re:Or... (4, Informative)

Ephemeriis (315124) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440953)

Or... students could use an academic network for academic purposes only, and get their own bloody network connection if they want to download music? Y'know, just a thought.

I'd honestly like to hear how that is supposed to work when you're living in a dorm room.

When I went to college everything had to go through the school. We paid the school for our cable TV, because outside companies were not allowed to run cables into the dorm rooms. We paid the school for our landline phones, because outside companies were not allowed to run cables into the dorm rooms. And we paid the school for our Internet, because outside companies were not allowed to run cables into the dorm rooms.

I suppose that these days you could probably get a cell phone with a data plan and plug your computer into that... But I doubt it would work very well, either from a cost or performance standpoint.

Additionally you've got a question of where you draw the line between academic purposes and everything else. Is sending an email home to the folks ok? How about emailing your professor? How about emailing another student? What if you're a music student and trying to download something from a P2P network for the sole purpose of writing a report about it?

Colleges are put in the very uncomfortable position of ISP for their residential students. On one side you've got the academic leanings towards free speech and open access... On the other side you've got the same issues ISPs have with providing adequate bandwidth to all their customers...

Exactly. (4, Insightful)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441369)

Colleges are put in the very uncomfortable position of ISP for their residential students.

and they should behave like an ISP and stop filtering crap for unrelated corporate interests.

Just follow the law and provide information if served with proper papers, and let the students *gasp*, make their own choices and take responsibility for them.

Re:Or... (1)

cliffski (65094) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441637)

The students could actually buy music. I doubt itunes is blocked.
If they suddenly realize that they cant afford everything they want for zero effort, then they just got a free basic economics lesson.

I bet the college network prevents people running mass-mailing spam businesses from their dorm room too. Is that also a right for every student?

Mobile broadband (1)

ndg123 (801212) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441743)

Surely you just get mobile broadband via a USB modem stick? I can get one which runs at upto 7.2Mb/sec for $15/month (equivalent USD cost after rebates), with a 5Gb usage limit. Not sure if that kind of service has reached much of the US yet.

Re:Or... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25440681)

Or they could simply pay for the music, would probably cost less.

Re:Or... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25440713)

Hi. You must be new here.

Same is true of lots of educational spending (1)

cliffski (65094) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441611)

This is no different to a whole range of things schools and universities have to spend money on because some of their students act like idiots.
Some idiots bring knives to school, so the school has to waste money on metal detectors.
Some idiots will send spam and viruses to any PC connected to the net, so the schools have to spend money on spam filtering and firewalls.
In these cases, we all realize the maniacs with knives or the bastards who send spam are the ones causing the school to have to deal with this shit.

For some reason, the irresponsible dorks who risk all sorts of crap by using a school network to copy copyrighted stuff are somehow the victims. Maybe if they spent some more time actually studying, they might get decent jobs and be able to buy the music they want?
Just a suggestion.

$100K is more than the sales of product... (1)

Simonetta (207550) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441693)

$100K+ per college per year is more money than the sales of recorded product to the students would generate. Therefore the RIAA is getting paid twice: once through extortion ("we won't sue you for promoting piracy through providing high bandwidth...") and again through product sales to the students.

    No wonder they want the current situation to continue.

    The only real 'solution' is to convince students to wean themselves from RIAA/MPAA product. This will probably prove next to impossible since young people have been conditioned from birth to consume RIAA/MIAA product.

    One thing to watch out for is any collusion between Wackenhut or Corrections Corporation of America and the RIAA/MPAA. These people are the two largest private prison corporations in the USA. It would be in their interest to criminalize with prison sentences any copyright offence like downloading. They make money by holding people in prison: the more people held int their prisons, the more profit that they make. And they have a responsibility to their stockholders to maximize their profits. If laws are passed turning file downloading into prison offenses, you can be sure that Wackenhut and CCA had a lot to do with it because these kind of laws will deliver a new large source of raw materal for them to process for profit. They have already got a lock on the Black underclass youth, which is no longer a growing source of product for the private prison corporations. So if you download files, (and you do), then this means you. Don't get tricked into a prison sentence by the RIAA/MPAA because you won't survive an period in an American corporate prison.

    These companies are the modern day equivalent of slave-traders. Whenever a law is proposed on the state level to increase the penalties for drug possession, often it is Wackenhut and CCA who are behind it, usually by providing most of the campaign funds for the person who introduced the bill. Students should demand that their colleges disinvest any shares that their college endowment fund has in either of these corporations.

    I'm not paranoid, this stuff really happens this way. Just beware and don't be naive. Young American white people put too far much emphasis on music recordings for some unknown reason. They have been conditioned to believe that this is the core of their culture. Well, learn to break your conditioning, that's what you are going to college for. Learn to play a musical instrument and learn to make films from public domain plays and your own scripts using inexpensive cameras and digital video edit programs.

    Thank you and please don't mod me down simply because you disagree. Learning to handle diverse viewpoints in a civilized manner is another reason why you are spending so much money to go to college.

Step 3... (3, Funny)

argent (18001) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440489)

1) Scare congress into passing tough new regulations on colleges.
2) Get colleges to pay for your copyright enforcement.
3) Profit! Maybe...

The problem is that even after you do all this, do you actually make more money?

Numbers are fun (2, Insightful)

svendsen (1029716) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440505)

After RTFA it didn't actually mention percentage of total budget that univ. are spending on this. If its 50% of their total budget it is an issue, if its .000000001 how much of an issue is it really? If they are looking to save money there are probably a lot easier ways to do so with much bigger savings.

Re:Numbers are fun (4, Insightful)

Etrias (1121031) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440689)

In a way, $100,000 isn't much for a university...any university really. Salary costs alone would eat up this amount quickly.

No, this $100,000 is likely coming out of small campus programs who are lucky to have a budget. If it's being routed out of the overall tech budget, chances are that's the computer lab upgrade budget or other small, but needed programs that could really use that money. Seems a shame that money isn't being used better.

Re:Numbers are fun (4, Insightful)

dreamchaser (49529) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440787)

My wife has worked for more than one University and let me tell you that the waste across the board is horrendous. This is just a drop in the bucket but yet another example of short sighted wasteful spending. Meanwhile, tuition continues to go up at a rate that greatly outpaces core inflation.

Re:Numbers are fun (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25440835)

My wife has worked for more than one University and let me tell you that the waste across the board is horrendous.

Hopefully that means that the difference between you and your wife is that your wife realizes that "university" is not a proper noun. Otherwise, she really wasted her time.

Re:Numbers are fun (1)

lymond01 (314120) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441113)

There's waste every time you put a bunch of people in one place, and a university is no different. $100,000 is about two people's salary's (staff members) and the idea is to allow the real work to be done on campus -- it's painful for researchers to download GB-sized data sets for their models in the first place, never mind having their throughput clogged by the latest WoW patch or Hollywood "blockbuster" download.

At our University the dorms are on a different VLAN and it's just throttled to save room for other people. Our internet connection is maxed out every day all day.

Re:Numbers are fun (1)

eln (21727) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441531)

Tuition can continue to climb so quickly with nary a peep from anyone because so much of it is paid for through student loans, which are basically like free money to the students who get them. They only really pay attention to how much money it is when it comes time to repay it after they've already graduated.

Couple that with the idea that a more expensive school is widely seen as a "better" school, and there's really very little motivation to keep tuition down.

Re:Numbers are fun (2, Insightful)

seanellis (302682) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441201)

No. $100K is still $100K whether it's 10% of $1M or 0.1% of $100M.

That $100K/yr will pay for tuition for how many students? 2 or 3 in proper subjects? (What are US tuition rates, anyway?) IMO, that's much more worth having than some warm body propping up Britney Spears's bottom line.

And if this is "many" colleges, that's a lot of kids who could get college scholarship, who aren't.

Are the US taxpayers happy to have their education tax dollars being spent on this, instead of on educating additional students?

Re:Numbers are fun (1)

Talderas (1212466) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441479)

100k would be the tuition for about 1-5 students for private schools that don't receive public money.

I would prefer my children (if I ever have the unfortunate joy of having children) to go to a college with lower classroom sizes (lower enrollment), as this will ensure that it will allow my children more time to get 1 on 1 coaching from professors if they need it.

Bullshit (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25440525)

Sorry, I don't believe this. I do the exact same thing for large networks and it doesn't cost anywhere near that much, what I think they did was *any* software or hardware which was used in the process was added to the total cost.
Ordinary IDS/IPS which just happens to also be used to detect/stop P2P? Add full cost of the solution.
These stats are shady.

P2P != Music (1)

dmomo (256005) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440555)

I would agree that a University could simply subscribe to a service like Ruckus to tempt students away from using P2P. But then what about movies? What about Software?

Corporations with interest in those pieces of IP will still have a complaint. Maybe from a risk P.O.V 100k is cheap. I don't know. I'm not a friggin ichioligist or whatever thinks about profit v. risk.

Oh, what about legitimate P2P uses? I guess screw them. No one has to fear abusing or losing legitimacy.

Re:P2P != Music (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25440971)

But then what about movies? What about Software?

If you went to a university maybe you'd know that "software" is not a proper noun.

Re:P2P != Music (1)

Chrono11901 (901948) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441041)

I don't see to many issues with software companies.

Most colleges have deals to get needed software products cheap and companies like MS and adobe just don't really give a shit if people download (in the end it benefits them more then students using an alternative).

Or they could... (1)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441319)

I would agree that a University could simply subscribe to a service like Ruckus to tempt students away from using P2P. But then what about movies? What about Software?

Corporations with interest in those pieces of IP will still have a complaint. Maybe from a risk P.O.V 100k is cheap. I don't know. I'm not a friggin ichioligist or whatever thinks about profit v. risk.

Oh, what about legitimate P2P uses? I guess screw them. No one has to fear abusing or losing legitimacy.

Or they could give people the right to exercise their own moral prerogatives. I mean, it's not as if universities should be open bastions of free thought, or anything.

Explain to me why anyone should pay housing fees just to be censored by completely unrelated corporate interests.

If they want to sue students, hand over the information under the DMCA, and no more liability exists. Simple really.

This crap takes "in loco parentis" too far.

My university is pro/antibittorrent (5, Funny)

Plazmid (1132467) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440567)

My university both supports and is against bittorrent. There are posters that say we shouldn't use it, while at the same time there are instructions on how to securely use bittorrent on a university website. Guess it's because we have one of the co-creators of bittorrent on campus.

Pennies in Legal Compliance (3, Insightful)

mpapet (761907) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440569)

Reality check: this is peanuts.

How much does the university pay for all kinds of other legal compliance? How many lawyers on staff?

There's no doubt this is a ridiculous compliance issue. But the average slashdot reader continues to buy new DVD's and pay absurd monthly video content fees that directly support the RIAA. Dog forbid I mention watching less television or consuming fewer media conglomerate products.

Re:Pennies in Legal Compliance (4, Insightful)

gooman (709147) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440737)

the average slashdot reader continues to buy new DVD's and pay absurd monthly video content fees that directly support the RIAA

Those purchases directly support the MPAA. Just as evil, but a different group.

Re:Pennies in Legal Compliance (1)

plasmacutter (901737) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441417)

Reality check: this is peanuts.

How much does the university pay for all kinds of other legal compliance? How many lawyers on staff?

There's no doubt this is a ridiculous compliance issue. But the average slashdot reader continues to buy new DVD's and pay absurd monthly video content fees that directly support the RIAA. Dog forbid I mention watching less television or consuming fewer media conglomerate products.

Please explain to me why, then, they can't put one of their retained lawyers on p2p notice compliance, and NOT spend 100k removing student's right to their own free will on the internet?

Who the hell needs P2P... (2, Interesting)

geekmux (1040042) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440571)

Went into the campus computer lab to find that the entire room was sitting on live IPs. No NAT, and when I shut off the XP firewall, I was able to ping the machine from the Internet. Naturally, I was logged in with local admin rights.

Fire up Apache and plug in your external HD chock full o' goodies and away you go...

Speed tests showed 80Mb down and 90Mb up. Yes, life must be nice sitting on a phat backbone with a class-B to waste. And we have to wonder why we're running out of IPv4 space?

Re:Who the hell needs P2P... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25441491)

No NAT

You say that like it's a bad thing. NAT ruins the end-to-end connectivity of the internet, and the technologies that have sprung up due to its use have made it harder to do things, not easier.

Live IP's are just fine on a machine given proper security. Throwing in NAT is an excuse for getting more IP addresses, not because you fail at setting up a proper firewall. Despite this, however, NAT is commonly used in place of firewalls, and we really, really shouldn't use it as an excuse for one.

misleading... (4, Informative)

qwertphobia (825473) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440613)

It's a bit misleading in my experience.

I would say that the services and equipment which are used to fight or support or enforce P2P issues are easily at the $100k level in larger universities.

However, the equipment and services are also used for other purposes such as regulating bandwidth usage, fighting viruses and worms, and limiting network access to only members of the University community.

new law (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25440621)

all legitimate educational institution computers (not college student owned machines) are exempt from software copyrights. Everyone wins- ms raises another generation to use their software and be dependent on it, and price to entry becomes lower, increasing education levels around the country.

Goatse (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25440633)

Goatse [goatse.cz]

No wait, the other one.

That's only 1 FTE (4, Insightful)

petes_PoV (912422) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440645)

$100k buys you about one full time person. When you add in all the extra costs (healthcare, faciities etc) on top of their pay.

On that basis it's hard to see how they could do a proper job for less.

Re:That's only 1 FTE (4, Insightful)

Free the Cowards (1280296) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440857)

The question is not whether they could do a proper job for less. The question is whether they should be doing this job at all.

Re:That's only 1 FTE (1)

cliffski (65094) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441685)

good point. Maybe they should stop spam filtering and firewalls, and fuck it, stop campus security and metal detectors too.
If students want to go on killing sprees or run a spam network from their dorm, thats up to them.
Thats FREEDOM!!!11

Yay!

Re:That's only 1 FTE (1)

houghi (78078) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441315)

So 1 FTE for 1 protocol. That on top of everything else. Monitoring NNTP? Add 1 FTE? Monitoring web? Add 1 FTE. ...

Do you know how not to spend that money on 1 FTE? By not spending that money on that 1 FTE.

professors costs $500K (2, Interesting)

peter303 (12292) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441447)

$200K salary and $300K office, staff overhead. The prof is expected to pul in that much in grants.

Only 100,000 a year? (1, Insightful)

A Name Similar to Di (875837) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440673)

So they hired one guy to watch the network. I'm guessing most universities spend 10x that on gardening alone... why is the writer up in arms?

Re:Only 100,000 a year? (1)

cashman73 (855518) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440783)

$100,000 per year is nothing to most public and private university budgets. Most college presidents make about two to three times that, alone! If your school has a division I-A (or even II-A) football program, they spend at least 10-15 times that.

Re:Only 100,000 a year? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25441807)

Football is actually a bad example. It's relatively profitable for most of the big schools. Now crew, or volleyball..

And don't get me started on how much those schools spend on landscaping. Though that may help bring the girls in.

Re:Only 100,000 a year? (2, Insightful)

konohitowa (220547) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440889)

In as much as I suspect that few here will want to hear your opinion (modding should indicate whether I'm right about that), I was hoping to find something along those lines.

My first thought when I read the headline was "big deal". When you consider the cost of a private education, $100k at a private institution is trivial. The government takes that much from me every year, and I figure the same people up in arms about the P2P cost wouldn't shed a single tear over my tax bill. Although at least the institutions can do it by choice, whereas my options all involve shedding myself of income.

The scary thing .. (1)

apodyopsis (1048476) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440739)

Hmm..

The scary thing is that the **AA would probably offer to police their networks for free, and recoup their costs via lawsuits.

Chop off students' hands (3, Funny)

gelfling (6534) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440751)

Seriously, you want ruthless compliance then mutilate people who violate it. And while we're at it let's execute pornographers in the town square. In fact let's make all crimes capital crimes. What about all the GOOD things they do in North Korea?

Re:Chop off students' hands (1)

qwertphobia (825473) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440855)

That's a great idea, but do you want someone in your university to watch all your P2P traffic and try to decide which streams are legally acceptable and which ones would offend the RIAA/MPAA/etc?

Re:Chop off students' hands (2, Insightful)

mathx314 (1365325) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440947)

In a capitalist society, destroying one's wealth is essentially mutilation. And that's precisely what the *AAs do (and thus why universities spend >$100k to protect themselves).

Re:Chop off students' hands (1, Insightful)

cliffski (65094) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441747)

I see.
so if a student gets fined for breaking the law, that's evil mutilation?
But if you steal someone else's hard work and put them out of business, that's your fucking right?

Grow up.

Republicans should grab this issue (-1, Troll)

tjstork (137384) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440863)

With Democrats poised to silence the right wing by going after radio, it makes perfect political sense to respond with a radical reform of copyrights. If you look at the polls, you'd find that the lion's share of people in IP aren't ever going to support Republicans anyway, so the political fallout doesn't matter.

Republicans should be singing we shall overcome, protesting every DMCA takedown notice, repeatedly introducing legislation to allow personal file sharing as fair use, shortening the length of copyright and ultimately repealing the DMCA. While they are at it, it wouldn't be bad to make legal documents non-copyrightable, so that you can post them on your web site when people see them.

Obama has the youth of America behind him... let's see how long that lasts when he has to throw them in jail for copyright violations to serve his own backers in the IP industry. Make Obama defend Madonna, and let Republicans be the creators of a new kind of an economy that recognizes that information wants to be free.

If it happens to bankrupt the core communications mechanism of the Democratic Party, so much the better.

Re:Republicans should grab this issue (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25441145)

If it happens to bankrupt the core communications mechanism of the Democratic Party, so much the better.

You Repugs are going to lose, and lose big. Butch up and deal with it, kid.

Yep, we are, but have to think about 2010. (1)

tjstork (137384) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441345)

You Repugs are going to lose, and lose big. Butch up and deal with it, kid.

Am dealing with it. Thinking about 2010. Have a lot to do by then. This is but one part of a new global economic vision to deal with the Democrats reactionary socialism.

So ... (1)

pvera (250260) | more than 5 years ago | (#25440989)

They are hiring either up to two warm bodies per school to deal with P2P rules enforcement? This is assuming a school that pays one guy $100k/year, or two guys for $50k/year. Hell, make it three, the manager for $50K, two worker bees for $25K.

I graduated more than a decade ago, and my campus had about 10,000 students. Even back then two people would not be able to do jack squat. Two guys could maybe handle this kind of gig at a faculty level, but campus wide?

Easy Math (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25440999)

Just enroll 2.5 more students and you'll have an extra 100K

The candidates reply to your concerns! (1)

east coast (590680) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441091)

Barack Obama said: "I know that it may not be the direction you want to see IP laws go in but at least we're creating jobs for Joe the Network Admin with good health benefits."

John McCain explains: "I'd hate to see young college students go astray when there is so much to look forward to. Let's try to keep a level head and co-op these human resources with other areas of the campus IT departments. It won't be as wasteful and everyone wins in the end."

Both sides agree that this is money well spent and with that in mind the Court Jester-in-waiting does a happy little dance as he hopes his buffoonery will please his new king, whomever that may be.

Major Allocation? (1)

Tekninja_Hawk (961855) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441331)

Considering private universities have been known to charge easily 20 to 35k a year per student, this really doesnt seem like that big of a deal, 20-35k times 3 or 4 thousand... this wouldnt even make a dent in it!

Equivalent to how many students? (1)

Chibi (232518) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441457)

I haven't been keeping up on tuition rates, but the summary specifically states "private universities." When I was college-age (mid-to-late 90s), private university cost approximately $25,000, including room and board. So, this would be the equivalent of 4 students out of their entire student body.

I *think* current rates are closer to $40,000 per year. So, this is 2.5 students (would hate to be that .5 guy).

So, for an individual, this is quite a bit of money. But, for a large organization with pretty significant funding, probably not all that much.

comparative breakdown (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25441581)

my school's
-gun club budget: $17,000
-SCUBA club budget: $11,000
-Rifle Team Budget: %9,800
-Robotics team budget: $30,000
-Efficient Vehicles budget: $25,000
-autocross club budget: ~$20,000

mind you, most of these are CLUBS. the quoted $100,000 is nothing to most schools large enough to have a problem.

Just buy the stuff? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25441585)

Why not just make a movie/cd rental section in the student library? I'm sure 100,000 a year is enough money to purchase several copies of the newly released movies and cds. and students could vote on new releases to see if the university should buy them or not

Real problem is absurdity (5, Insightful)

jasmak (1007287) | more than 5 years ago | (#25441609)

I recently graduated from Penn State and the real problem lies with the fact that the people in charge of discipline action have no idea what they are doing. They are not special tech administrators but instead send you to the Judicial affairs office for violations. I had my internet turned off for 2 weeks and could have gotten a disciplinary action from the school (such as suspension, expulsion, etc) because someone had apparently downloaded the shareware version of Dreamweaver from me. Yes I am talking about the 30 day trial. Until you get administrators that understand technology, you cannot be effective in this fight against student rights.
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