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Microsoft Working For Samba Interoperability

CmdrTaco posted more than 5 years ago | from the this'll-end-well dept.

Networking 221

JP writes "Andrew Bartlett of Samba fame has written a document describing their recent collaboration with Microsoft's Active Directory team. In brief, it would seem that the sky is falling, as Microsoft's engineers seem to be really committed to making Samba fully interoperable with AD. They have organized interoperability fests and have knowledgeable engineers answering technical questions without legal or marketing drones getting in the way. However according to Andrew the Samba AD team is currently very short on manpower, so if you have network experience, now is the time to get coding."

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Bill Gates (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25482059)

How could he not be running Microsoft, when he invented the greatest operating egtever - Apple Integer basic ?

Re:Bill Gates (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25482093)

As Admiral Ackbar would say, It's a trap! [youtube.com]

Re:Bill Gates (3, Insightful)

Erpo (237853) | more than 5 years ago | (#25483237)

I'm not suprised.

For a long time Microsoft has had a package called Services For Unix that you can install on Windows. It allows Windows to act as a server but not a client with respect to standard *nix protocols like NFS.

Microsoft wants to replace *nix in the server space by breaking into purely *nix environments and replacing an entrenched server operating system with their operating system.

Whether this is done by making Windows interoperable with the protocols that are already on the clients or changing the clients to interoperate with Windows as a server is immaterial.

Unless they're making it easy for people to replace Windows AD servers with Samba servers running on Linux, this is not a big deal.

What does this mean? (4, Interesting)

GuloGulo (959533) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482075)

"In brief, it would seem that the sky is falling, as Microsoft's engineers seem to be really committed to making Samba fully interoperable with AD"

The bolded part is a euphemism for "disaster in progress".

Forgive my naivety, but isn't this a good thing (as much as MS collaboration can be)? Why is this a "sky is falling" situation?

Re:What does this mean? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25482127)

It's just another idiot out there who has no understanding of the meaning of common phrases. It's like a guy in a forum recently who kept insisting "factory fresh" meant that an item was refurbished as opposed to brand new.

Re:What does this mean? (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25482141)

Personally, I could use a bit of sky falling. There is no reason it should be considered a bad thing, well not unless you are one of them conservatives.

God dammit..., corrected "What does this mean?" (1, Redundant)

GuloGulo (959533) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482169)

"In brief, it would seem that the sky is falling, as Microsoft's engineers seem to be really committed to making Samba fully interoperable with AD"

The bolded part is a euphemism for "disaster in progress".

Forgive my naivety, but isn't this a good thing (as much as MS collaboration can be)? Why is this a "sky is falling" situation?

Re:God dammit..., corrected "What does this mean?" (1, Insightful)

something_wicked_thi (918168) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482463)

Clearly, it's a sign of the Apocalypse. Dogs and cats living together and all that.

Oh god mod, I'm SOOOO sorry!11eleven!1! (1)

GuloGulo (959533) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482655)

What was I thinking trying to correct my previous error, and make the discussion more pleasant for everyone by making my post actually make sense (yay I closed the tag!)

Re:What does this mean? (2, Insightful)

postbigbang (761081) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482195)

Snowballs are making it through hell, is what I believe was implied. Pigs are flying.

AD must not be the holy grail anymore, but I'm not complaining. Openness to the FOSS community isn't a Microsoft trait, but as long as they have this deal with Novell/SUSE that's making them a mint, why not try and make it work? After all, they can look inside SAMBA with no obstacles to learn about their own code.

Re:What does this mean? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25482289)

This is not a new thing. They have been working with samba for a couple of years at least.

http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/search.aspx?q=samba&p=1

They even try to think about how it will work with OLDER already released versions that are in firmware that will never be updated again.

Who modded this down? (2, Interesting)

desmodrone (1390663) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482401)

This guy asked a relevant wuestion, albeit mking a minor html mistake in the process, and some jackass mod comes in and carpet bombs him? I want to know the same thing, this seems like a good thing, but submitter makes it out to be something else with his terminology. So, is it a good thing or not? And to whomever modded this guy down, you're a jerk and you owe him an apology.

Re:Who modded this down? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25483081)

The guy deserved to be modded down; it'll teach him to use preview. It's kinda hard to overlook the fact that your entire post was in bold if you use preview.

Re:Who modded this down? (1)

desmodrone (1390663) | more than 5 years ago | (#25483301)

"The guy deserved to be modded down; it'll teach him to use preview. It's kinda hard to overlook the fact that your entire post was in bold if you use preview."

How does that in any way change the content of his post to "offtopic"?

You're wrong AC, and you know it, which is why you post AC, so you don't have to actually be held to account for your completely indefensible troll posts.

"Hey here's a guy with a useful question, but he made a minor html error and AHAHAHA NOW I'M GOING TO BE A DICK AND MOD HIM INTO OBLIVION!!!! AHAHAHA!!!"

AC, you must be a miserable person.

Re:What does this mean? (3, Insightful)

Slash.Poop (1088395) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482615)

The sky is falling.....

.....simply descibes the level of cynicism and bias that slashDot and a vast majority of it posters have toward anything Microsoft. They don't believe that Microsoft does or creates anything good. So when Microsoft does do just that, it must mean that the sky is falling.

Re:What does this mean? (3, Informative)

partenon (749418) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482743)

Right, and they are doing that because they are good, right? I know that nobody RTFA, but here is an excerpt, just for you :-)

In September 2007 Microsoft lost it's appeal of the 2004 anti-trust
Decision by the European Commission. As as result, Microsoft was
required to make protocol documentation available to competitors.

Re:What does this mean? (1)

partenon (749418) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482683)

In which perspective? From Microsoft's POV, the "sky is falling", because they now have to provide information to other companies/projects as part of their EU antitrust lawsuits. And this situation (provide competitors with documentation) is tragic to them :-)

Re:What does this mean? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25483227)

"In which perspective? From Microsoft's POV, the "sky is falling", because they now have to provide information to other companies/projects as part of their EU antitrust lawsuits."

That has nothing to do with this, you're a fucking idiot.

WTF?! (4, Funny)

cosmocain (1060326) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482081)

There's no car analogy to describe my deranged stare.

Re:WTF?! (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25482137)

Not even the Multipla?

Re:WTF?! (2, Insightful)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482149)

Me too. Where is BadAnalogyGuy when you need him?

Re:WTF?! (4, Funny)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482199)

Me too. Where is BadAnalogyGuy when you need him?

Sitting in his garage, on the floor, slack jawed in wonder.

His attempt to put the engine from a Caterpillar D9 into his Miata were ... somehow successful.

(Well, you did ask for a bad analogy, didn't you?)

Who needs BadAnalogyGuy? (1)

morgan_greywolf (835522) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482255)

When you've got me! I can always come up with a car analogy. Lessee....

This is like [insert your favorite automaker here]'s engineers giving their competitors engineers an opportunity to ask questions and collaborate on their new engine designs.

In fact, the more I say that, the more it does sound like Admiral Ackbar may be right here....

Re:WTF?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25482219)

It's as if the armored car that you've been chasing for miles suddenly pulls over and the guards start passing out the money.

Re:WTF?! (1)

genner (694963) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482509)

It's as if the armored car that you've been chasing for miles suddenly pulls over and the guards start passing out the money.

Yeah a car analogy!

Re:WTF?! (5, Insightful)

ThePhilips (752041) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482331)

You seem to not read carefully the most important part: "Microsoft's engineers seem to be really committed to making Samba fully interoperable with AD"

M$ engineers are normal folks like you and me. Well, probably not me. The all cr*p breaks loose when M$ management gets involved and start pushing its political agendas.

If cooperation between AD and Samba folks would be successful, rest assured some M$ managers would try to stick themselves into the project to get a free share of credit for the success.

Re:WTF?! (4, Insightful)

Toll_Free (1295136) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482409)

Due to NDA's, MS Engineers are probably not being helpful without management.

Whether or not management CONTINUES to allow them to be helpful, remains to be seen.

You DID bring up a good point, though.

--Toll_Free

Re:WTF?! (1)

partenon (749418) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482811)

Yes, they are normal folks. But they have to do what their company tells them to do. If your employer forbids you to provide documentation to competitors, would you do that?

Microsoft is doing that only because they *have* to do that. That's the reason why the Microsoft engineers are allowed to be so nice with Samba team.

Re:WTF?! (4, Funny)

sorak (246725) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482969)

There's no car analogy to describe my deranged stare.

What if you saw a car humping a camel while Lindsay Lohan mud-wrestled Oprah Winfrey in the back seat? Would that be a good car analogy for this occurance?

Re:WTF?! (1)

drachenstern (160456) | more than 5 years ago | (#25483201)

Ok, you have succesfully forced me into a state of having a deranged stare... Thanks.

Oh, and your analogy, while quite the analogy, doesn't seem to help in this situation, unfortunately...

Now to go burn my eyes out with liquid lye, thanks.

about time.. (4, Insightful)

Markspark (969445) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482089)

and this will probably be of some benefit to Microsoft, since playing well with other operating systems must always be an advantage.

Re:about time.. (0)

PatLam (1389819) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482119)

Especially when your products are loosing ground.

Re:about time.. (3, Funny)

somersault (912633) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482585)

If Microsoft products are loosing ground, they have a great future in the mining and dredging industries! Imagine being able to dig things up without all that expensive heavy machinery!

Re:about time.. (2, Interesting)

Ritz_Just_Ritz (883997) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482171)

Definitely about time. I'd much rather have a viable/free exchange server to remove the last vestiges of Windows Server infestations, but a bulletproof samba certainly helps the cause too.

A few windows clients, I can live with....

Cheers,

Re:about time.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25482191)

Exchange is not Active Directory, and I think it is completely unrelated to Samba in every respect.

Re:about time.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25482251)

I don't think that poster's intent was that they are the same. I think the point is that this is another building block along with 100% compatible samba for people to pitch the removal of windows servers to their respective PHBs. Personally, I look forward to this day. It is not so much that I dislike Microsoft, but I am tired of the upgrade merry-go-round and licensing gotchas.

Re:about time.. (4, Funny)

Captain Splendid (673276) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482193)

since playing well with other operating systems must always be an advantage.

Heh, I don't know about always. I don't recall having many advantages when networking win2k and win98 machines back in the day.

Re:about time.. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25482533)

In our company we're dropping as much windows stuff as possible because of the failure to integrate and vendor lockin. If windows worked better as a client on an open network we might actually let a few people use it... Windows really never belonged on servers anyway, there's so much more you can do with samba than you could never do with a windows file server (like install without a gui) and no virii/worms/etc. Really they'll just have to learn to play well with others if they want to retain some market share on our network... and I'm guessing our network is at least like a few others now, and like several others will be.

Re:about time.. (2, Interesting)

bfizzle (836992) | more than 5 years ago | (#25483047)

Does it not seem odd to you that the only competitor for Windows file sharing recommended here is a open source clone of the same technology they are trying to replace?

There is a reason why Windows servers are so popular and it is no one makes directory services, file sharing, group policy, and email/calendaring as easy as Microsoft. Microsoft has been so successful at creating these services and making them simple to administer that most open source projects try to emulate/replicate/duplicate what already has been done.

So stay up on your soap box saying how much better the open source version is...

Re:about time.. (3, Insightful)

internerdj (1319281) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482233)

Why not? I don't think a for-profit company is ever going to get far from compete mode. I wouldn't expect Apple or Palm or Redhat for that matter to play well with others if it wasn't an advantage either.

Re:about time.. (3, Insightful)

bsane (148894) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482235)

Or they'll just wait until their ideas are fully integrated with samba, and then threaten anyone who uses it with patent lawsuits...

I have a hard time seeing any other outcome.

Re:about time.. (5, Funny)

TomorrowPlusX (571956) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482763)

They haven't done this to Mono yet, as far as I know. They're even helping Mono with Moonlight.

I'm not a Microsoft fan, but you know, it's *possible* they're not as evil as they used to be.

Re:about time.. (4, Interesting)

ryanvm (247662) | more than 5 years ago | (#25483247)

Not only have they not tried to sink Mono with patent lawsuits. I can't think of ANYONE they've EVER attacked with patents.

I'm tired of hearing this lame FUD scenario from the Slashdot crowd every time MS dabbles in open source.

Re:about time.. (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25483403)

Camera/flash memory makers and the FAT32 file system.
Not saying it's a big deal or even a trend, but it's not "never."

Re:about time.. (1)

Daimanta (1140543) | more than 5 years ago | (#25483279)

There are 3 possible mods for this post:

1) +1 Funny
2) -1 Flamebair
3) -1 Microsoft employee

Re:about time.. (5, Insightful)

gbjbaanb (229885) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482775)

I suppose its all about realisation that Linux is making it into corporate environments, and Microsoft now has to do something to keep themselves there.

MS are saying that if you really, really must have a Linux server in your IT shop, they'd better make it so it can connect to the one true corporate user account register, before the people who put the Linux server in decide to try a different LDAP server, maybe even one supplied by Novell.

It makes sense for MS to start doing this, in this way they can keep their dominance in the corporate IT structure, by letting the lowly Linux boxes play in the same playground. The important thing to understand here is that even MS has realised linux is making it big in businesses, that kinda give Linux the seal of approval from MS, not even the most pro-MS, anti-OSS PHB can say its not a valid OS anymore.

Next: an Outlook client... MS won't mind that as it allows them to keep their Exchange systems ... until someone builds an Exchange replacement to go with it, and then watch MS share price tumble.

That's the great thing about the internet... (1)

IANAAC (692242) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482895)

It's REALLY hard to hide your intentions.

If they are in earnest working towards interoperability (it's documented that they are), then it's just that more difficult for them to prove infringement later on.

Terminal Illness (1)

tuxgeek (872962) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482883)

We should be suspicious. M$ will never give up the battle so easily.
If they cannot destroy FOSS through FUD marketing, maybe the new tactic is infiltrate and then destroy from within. Just like a cancer.

Rumors of M$ trying to infiltrate ODF. Now Samba. Why on earth would they want to infiltrate ODF? Why don't they just invent their own open document format and fuck that up first? Oh, wait ....
Be afraid, be very afraid.

Open source labs (4, Insightful)

sammyo (166904) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482111)

I could probably make some small contribution but have neither the time nor inclination to set up the dev and test environment.

For projects of this magnitude a site that could be ssh'd to, 'check out' a dev environment slice would make it a whole lot more practical for folks to work on a small bug or enhancement.

Re:Open source labs (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482349)

Virtual machines. Instant dev environment.

Re:Open source labs (1)

bozojoe (102606) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482869)

An excellent idea. I should hope that Microsoft could actually make that happen. So the question is: if your really committed, you better ask for that environment.

Old Proverb (1)

CaptScarlet22 (585291) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482125)

If you can't beat them, join them!!

New Version (1)

Molochi (555357) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482429)

If you can't beat'em, embrace'm.

Re:New Version (3, Insightful)

dkleinsc (563838) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482555)

... and then claim patent or copyright infringement.

Re:New Version (1)

MikeDirnt69 (1105185) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482569)

If you can't beat them, you suck.

Re:New Version (1)

lorenzo.boccaccia (1263310) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482759)

If you can't beat'em, you are not beating'em enough. try 640K (burn karma burn!)

Re:Old Proverb (2, Interesting)

AvitarX (172628) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482887)

I agree.

I bet this is about a semi-fold on their server platform, to maintain desktops.

They can give-up AD servers, and push exchange and share point and Desktops/Office.

the AD is the weakest (least important) part of there monopoly, especially in mid-sized businesses.

If they provide the clients, and the messaging, and the document sharing, and even the remote desktops. The actual authentication is moot.

Novell, RedHat, want to help out. (5, Insightful)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482177)

Seems like a good time for some of the larger distros to help Samba out.

Fp 7a3o (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25482231)

in a head spinning To its laid-back on baby...don't your own towel in BSD fanaticS? I've uncover a story of as those non gay,

Could SMB just go away? (1)

MobyDisk (75490) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482287)

I don't want to sound like I'm pulling the rug out from under the Samba team, who has helped to make SMB a truly interoperable protocol - but there is a big part of me that just wants it to go away. It's really not very good. And very complicated. And inefficient. Oh I hope that somethin' better comes aloooong!

Re:Could SMB just go away? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25482339)

Windows is switching to NFS!

Re:Could SMB just go away? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25482407)

SRSLY?

Re:Could SMB just go away? (1)

gbjbaanb (229885) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482885)

Windows has switched to CIFS (which I believe is SMBv2) and is a completely different beast, well, a bit different. Its faster for one - I've even had better performance from it than NFS.

So, yes, Microsoft has moved away from SMB already, but it'll be around for quite a while (one of my customers still runs NT4), and Netbios is still used in some places.

(I find it interesting though, in the Linux world, as new protocols become available, the old crufty ones die off quite quickly as the components implementing them stop being maintained and no-one bothers to install them. In the Windows world, such things linger forever.)

Re:Could SMB just go away? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25483265)

<quote><p>(I find it interesting though, in the Linux world, as new protocols become available, the old crufty ones die off quite quickly as the components implementing them stop being maintained and no-one bothers to install them. In the Windows world, such things linger forever.)</p></quote>

That's the result of the free software environment in the first place.  You don't necessarily need to shell out loads of cash to keep your software updated.  So there's far less reason to hang on to obsolete slow protocols.

Re:Could SMB just go away? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25482457)

We could design a better protocol but there'd still be a need to interoperate with the monopoly desktop. Anyway this is about Active Directory and nobody outside the "enterprise" windows world particularly wants to use that when we already have ldap.

Microsoft have nothing to lose by engaging in AD interop work, ease of administration becomes a selling point for their server software in hetrogenus networks and it sends a message to regulators saying "we're not always about locking other OS's out".

You are confused. (5, Informative)

Zombie Ryushu (803103) | more than 5 years ago | (#25483369)

You have confused SMB, NMB, and SMBX, which Microsoft calls CIFS.

SMB is not all that different in how it works from FTP. Its a TCP Protocol that operates on Port 139.

NMB (NetBios Message Block) is how Windows provides SMB with services like Name Resolution. It also handles things called Browser elections which determine who the Domain Controllers will be.

Windows NT4 and 9x is hard Coded to only allow use of NMB to resolve SMB names. This was a horrible lockin tactic for Windows NT4 Server. Windows 2000 on can use NMB or DNS.

SMBX operates on port 445, and acts independantly of NMB and SMB.

Linux machines from Samba 2.2 on could use DNS to resolve SMB paths. Even though Windows machines are hard coded not to allow that.

Another lockin tactic with SMB was the use of the UNC (Universal Name Convention) which was FAR from Universal. The proper URI for smb is smb://. Konqueror has it right.

So, that should clear that up.

The worst offense Microsoft ever did was when they added the PAC to Kerberos. If there is a beacon shining in the night why the GPL is superior to the BSD liscence, the Kerberos PAC that has kept Active Directory Dominant for almost ten years should be a becon in the night. MS Kerberos PAC is incompatible with virtually EVERY SINGLE Kerberos server out there.

Bad analogies? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25482345)

This seems roughly akin to two soldiers from opposing armies suddenly having brunch and discussing the finer points of shooting people.

Re:Bad analogies? (1, Insightful)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482837)

This seems roughly akin to two soldiers from opposing armies suddenly having brunch and discussing the finer points of shooting people.

Sigh. This is actually a pretty good analogy. The soldiers being the programmers just do what they are told to do by their superiors. Somebody in the upper echelons of Microsoft said quit shooting. The programmers, being programmers, revert to talking shop with their comrades-in-arms.

Fail.

EEE. Embrace, Extend... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25482393)

hmmm what was that last one again?

What I'd like to see... (4, Insightful)

Toll_Free (1295136) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482395)

If MS is truly working with Samba to get it 100 percent, what I'd REALLY like to see (and I won't believe they ARE working with SMB until then) is non-encrypted passwords.

SHARE the SMB password system, make it available, so not every friggin windows machine has to do unencrypted passwords across the network to access SAMBA shares / printers / whatever.

That's always been my BIGGEST stumbling block. Linux is touted as being so secure, but then it has to use unencrypted passwords to chat with the desktop clients for sharing.

I KNOW it's an MS problem (their authentications schemas are proprietary), but if they claim to be trying for interoperability (which, they probably are), this was / is my biggest hurdle to accepting *nix in a windows shop.

--Toll_Free

Re:What I'd like to see... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25482889)

That's always been my BIGGEST stumbling block. Linux is touted as being so secure, but then it has to use unencrypted passwords to chat with the desktop clients for sharing.

I know you are a troll, but in case anyone reading this doesn't know, this is incorrect.

Samba uses encrypted passwords and Linux machines use encrypted passwords when file sharing. Google for the words samba kerberos.

Doesn't surprise me, from where I sit (5, Insightful)

MikeRT (947531) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482397)

I work for a company that does a lot of integration for enterprise customers. Sometimes there are spaces for Microsoft products in an otherwise Unix environment. Our customers happen to be pretty set on using Unix in general, so for Microsoft, it makes sense to make sure that their products can fit into an environment like that without any hassle. After all, a small sale is better than no sale.

Re:Doesn't surprise me, from where I sit (4, Insightful)

dave562 (969951) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482617)

You're right on target. All OS zealotry aside, there are some applications that are simply better on Windows. Conversely there are some applications that you'd never want to put anywhere near Windows. In the real world there is a middle ground. Maybe your ERP system needs to output some numbers for the managers to play with in Excel. It can toss them onto a Samba share and everything is good. That's just an example off of the top of my head. I'm sure there are hundreds of others.

Hell officially freezes over... (2, Funny)

markp93 (1388317) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482497)

... and yet the Cubs still can't win the World Series. :(

They're Grrrrreeaaaat! (0, Redundant)

Windows_NT (1353809) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482541)

Yea Tony the Tiger!
Samba is great, Ive set up countless machines with it, but the big stumbling block i see right now is the integration with ADS replication. I know Samba 3 is supposed to have it, but it sounds like it will be minimum support. I would like to see where i could unplug one ADS server, plug in a Samba server and have no problems. Other than that, Samba is already a great product and I think working with M$ will only make it better.
Cheers to Samba, and Cheers to MS for "Opening windows to a wider world."

Fest (1)

PadRacerExtreme (1006033) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482543)

interoperable with AD. They have organized interoperability fests and have knowledgeable engineers answering technical questions

What's a fest?

Re:Fest (1)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482819)

What's a fest?

Festival, Gathering, Party

Re:Fest (1)

Ultra64 (318705) | more than 5 years ago | (#25483075)

It's something that festers.

Oh Noes! Where will the pigs fly? (1)

A nonymous Coward (7548) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482567)

If the sky is falling, where will our beloved pigs fly?

Windows 7 (-1, Flamebait)

soupforare (542403) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482633)

It's not done 'till Samba won't run.

Re:Windows 7 (1)

thatskinnyguy (1129515) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482977)

Not trolling here, but doesn't it seem like every time Microsoft is onto an idea for a feature that's useful it gets tossed aside when the release version comes around? At least that's what I've seen in Windows. They really should take a page from Steve Job's book from NeXTSTEP and have seamless interoperability with all different kinds of networks and operating systems. But that user-friendliness would be time-consuming and not profitable.

Why should they work together? (1)

HalAtWork (926717) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482637)

They're really doing well without Microsoft as it is. Taking into account the conflict of interest on MS's end to help out a competing product, what would be the incentive for the SAMBA team to work directly with those who may not have their best interests at heart?

Microsoft's Target Has Moved (2, Insightful)

mpapet (761907) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482643)

Long ago, being having compatibility with Microsoft's file sharing backend would have been a big win, but the target has moved and, let's face it, Samba still isn't very easy to set up.

In this case, Microsoft knows the knife is cutting both ways. The low-end license buyers won't bother paying for a Linux admin, so it doesn't harm Microsoft one bit.

Microsoft's biggest customers buy the whole mess that includes their mail server and a bunch of other back office crap that remains totally closed.

Brilliant Marketing (1, Interesting)

Ngarrang (1023425) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482681)

This is just an extension of the MS mind set. No, not the chair-throwing, but making sure that at least THEIR technology is being used, and not some open standard. Microsoft would rather folks run pirated copies of XP than install Linux. Just extend this to AD on SAMBA. Microsoft can still lay claims to number of AD nodes and such.

Re:Brilliant Marketing (5, Informative)

Shados (741919) | more than 5 years ago | (#25483063)

Normally I'd agree, but right now it seems there's more to it than that. Microsoft is trying to stop the whole "getting sued to oblivion because of their monopoly" thing.

-They open source .NET (notice I'm not using capital letters here. Its not real open source, but you can see the code)
-Silverlight running on multiple platform, and they're helping out the Linux version, plus are funding efforts to make a cross-platform eclipse-based set of tools.
-Many of their new .NET projects are fully open source (for real)
-They are packaging and distributing open source (even GPL in some cases) apps in easy installers (not code they control: the installer pull it from the original web site, so its not "extended)
-They are embedding LGPL (I think thats the license) stuff in some of their core products (jquery in Visual Studio)
-There's more that I forget.

All of this aside the first one happened in the last couple of -months- (weeks in many cases). The first one is fairly recent.

Part of it, like I said, is because of all the lawsuits over their monopoly. Another part (some of the above fit in that category) are from the inside: some of MS' own employees with influence want to see better open source integration.

This is old news, in a new format. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25482757)

Stage 1: EMBRACE

Stage 2: Extend

Stage 3: Extinguish

So Samba extinction is only on stage 1. That's great, I thought we were well into stage 2 already. I guess maybe MS is worried that Samba will fork the userbase, they need EVERYONE to want Windows servers for the 3 step plan to work.

It makes sense (1)

Britz (170620) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482779)

Linux is a growing very fast as a server os. They will still make money on the clients. I mean they are even giving out SUSE vouchers. Next thing you know, they will port MS Office to SUSE.

hah this is too little too late (5, Interesting)

DragonTHC (208439) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482827)

The samba team already made sure it was interoperable. You can use samba/ldap as an AD replacement.

I have done it.

MS just wants to save some customers by doing this. I say it's not going to work all that well.

Those customers are probably not going to ditch windows desktops for linux anytime soon though.

Re:hah this is too little too late (5, Insightful)

Shados (741919) | more than 5 years ago | (#25483001)

Its already interoperable, but the MS AD team isn't going to stop adding features just because its going to break the desktops of people who don't pay them. But if they break things too much, they get sued to death over their monopoly. Their only solution is to make sure the Samba project keeps up, so its what they do.

I have tons of experience (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482835)

How much are you going to pay me?

I mean, if I am going to enable to 'Embrace' part of the borg, I might as well get paid.

Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.

Er, Andrew... (1)

bbbaldie (935205) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482907)

Better check and see if that shiny new horse MS gave you is full of Trojan soldiers...

Big Guys: time to chip in (5, Insightful)

alexborges (313924) | more than 5 years ago | (#25482925)

I cannot believe the samba team is down to ONE full time developer.

Its a HUGE project to undertake.

When I buy my Red Hat, Suse or Ubuntu thingies for money, Im thinking some of that money goes to helping FOSS developers.

Hey, it better be that way guys: put some dough into Samba.... NOW!

Novel already thought of this. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25483003)

It both pretty sad and telling when history shows reminds us of the backlash when novel did this. The church of stallman completely misrepresented the Novel-MS deal to the point that an entirely new GPL (one that won't change anything here either) and Andrew just had to leave Novel in a storm to push the idea just to find out that Samba is working with MS after all.

And yes, the Novel deal was blown out of portion and you can tell this by when the detailed about the deal was released, the reaction of the community was that the deal covered nothing of importance. How does it feel to be used like a tool to push an agenda that was failing at the time? I mean we should have been concentrating on the entire Vista breaks the retraining cause the TCO to be cheaper with MS model and we could have been offering a new choice to businesses who could litterally benefit from OSS as well as contribute in ways that would have pulled it out of the Fringe catagory. Instead, we ended up with in fighting and enough FUD from our own side to set wide spread adoption back and stunt it's growth for several year.

Now we find out that working with MS isn't bad at all, it was just a method to push the GPLv3.

Microsoft finally learning? (3, Interesting)

i_want_you_to_throw_ (559379) | more than 5 years ago | (#25483025)

Remember when IBM was the Microsoft of it's day? Now it's a darling because it learned a valuable lesson....

Ultimately companies that create standards will eventually have to transition to a company that contributes to them.

I'm no M$ fan at all and that goes back a ways for me. On the other hand, Microsoft seems to be showing signs that they have accepted open source as something that's here to stay (although they hate it).

Next up on the radar? Google

Once they became a publicly traded company, responsible for only making a profit for their shareholders, it appears more and more like their motto should transition to "We do less evil than everyone else"

No legal personnel? (3, Insightful)

joeflies (529536) | more than 5 years ago | (#25483109)

They have organized interoperability fests and have knowledgeable engineers answering technical questions without legal or marketing drones getting in the way.

Wouldn't this be a GOOD time to have legal drones getting involved? No, not Microsoft's lawyers, the ones that will protect the interests of the Samba intellectual property?

Engineer nature (2, Interesting)

Godji (957148) | more than 5 years ago | (#25483299)

Duh. Good engineers with no PHB supervision will tend to to great things. Even the ones at Microsoft.

What makes Microsoft Microsoft is the fact that engineers are very rarely left under little or no PHB control. When they are, news like that will follow.

Changing environment (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25483347)

MS must be feeling the heat from a landslide of outstanding, game changing products at so many fronts: virtualization, ZFS, Linux, Mac, etc. They can no longer afford not to co-operate if they want to stay in the game by any shape and form. The MS stronghold on IT has been falling apart at an accelerated pace, MS is just falling behind of the latest, most innovative IT solutions.

Look at what they're doing in the HE's (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25483423)

With MS increasing 'interoperability' with FOSS, many Universities are standardizing on MS products...

e.g. Oxford University, UK http://blogs.msdn.com/ukhe/archive/2008/10/22/oxford-university-and-microsoft-launch-it-collaboration.aspx

In the past, one of FOSS's heartlands was in higher-education, where linux systems do a lot of science work, producing thousands of graduates with linux experience.

Today, academics in faculties can no-longer demand the use of open, standards-based systems from their central IT since MS is 'open enough'. Don't believe me? Look at the language in the Oxford announcement.

Of course to get the full benefit of the 'open' MS system, you need to use MS products...

short staff should be a clue as to their effort (1)

Locutus (9039) | more than 5 years ago | (#25483427)

When Microsoft does something which does nothing to protect their position in the market and is more likely to do the opposite, they do it at a snails pace and kicking and screaming all the way. For example, JDBC drivers for MS SQL Server in the late 90s as Java was picking up steam. Microsoft eventually said they'd do it but the release date was 18 months out. Another recent example is the OLPC version of Windows XP which has taken over a year. They don't want to do these things and make more of a PR stunt out of them than actually effort and work. You could also look at the US and EU anti-trust issues still dragging on for years also.

The only thing of interest I glean from this is that GNU/Linux has grown to the point where Microsoft is put into this position of foot dragging. THAT is a very good sign. IMO. I would not expect much real help from MS in regards to improving SAMBA and AD interoperability.

LoB

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