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Blogger.com Banned In Turkey

timothy posted more than 5 years ago | from the no-longer-young-turks dept.

Censorship 262

petermp writes "A Turkish court has blocked access to the popular blog hosting service Blogger (Blogger.com and Blogspot.com, owned by Google), since Friday, October 24th, 2008. According to BasBasBas.com, a Dutch blogger based in Istanbul, who alerted readers about the issue: 'It is suspected that the reason for this has something to do with Adnan Oktar, by some considered the leading Muslim advocate for creationism, who has in the past managed to get Wordpress, Google Groups, as well as Richard Dawkins' website [banned].'"

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1 simple PGP script... (3, Interesting)

apodyopsis (1048476) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516173)

Can we expect to see thousands of people download a PHP blog script and host their own?

You can block Blogger, but in its place will grow thousands of pages, you cannot stop them all! (but you can easily identify the creators I suppose).

This seems like a very irrational decision, surely this will be appealed.

Re:1 simple PGP script... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516389)

And then you'll see islamic mobs killing anyone who gets near encryption. People blowing up companies for daring to put out, or hosting a proxy. Violence will stop anyone, if the perpetrators of the violence are willing to go to the final escalation : killing. And there is no religious defense : islam's paedophile prophet killed critics too. Google "asma bint marwan". He sent out murderers in the night to kill his critics. He even comitted genocide in one of his own mosques, in response to an insult. If worshipping muslims can be killed within islam because someone claims them to be insulting, you can imagine just how well you're going to theologically be able to defend dawking.

But don't worry. It's just a religion like any other. There all the same. Don't you see all those murders and rapes surrounding churches, synagogues and temples like you see them surrounding mosques and especially muslim dictatorships ? I mean surely countries with a Christian king celebrate killing muslims, right ? Oh wait. You don't see that. Oops. They're still the same.

It's funny, really means dawkins is blocked in the last muslim country that allowed him. And they're growing in numbers much faster than any free country, utterly dwarfing the numbers of any country that believes in dawking of darwin. Over 1.5 billion people that live under threat of violent attack for merely stating they believe dawkins.

Not a single atheist is even attempting to help these people, obviously. That would probably be "racist", and we can't have that.

Survival of the fittest - heh, perhaps one day the few remaining atheists will determine that not believing in darwin means survival - at least as a group.

Indeed - constantly violent religions - whether islam or communism - seem to be on the rise everywhere. "Justice" (such as killing your own daughters for "disobedience") and "social justice" ("redivision" of wealth to peopleoliticians, or should I say from Joe to Barack*) are the new wants of "progressives". And these people's ridiculous claims of making "peace" are being believed, sometimes actually under threat of violence.

Talk about a cosmic joke.

Fight for your rights indeed - but what if nobody comes to the fight ? then we all die silently

* excuse me for assailing the one. I did not see that obviously Obama is totally different from any other politician advocating "redivision" of wealth. Despite his past (*cough* let noone mention Tony Rezko*cough*), which he has totally broken with. He will be totally different, and redivise the wealth to those that really deserve it, justly : he will give it to me. Right ?

Re:1 simple PGP script... (3, Funny)

ClassMyAss (976281) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516463)

Wow. That was almost completely unintelligible, and I can't even exactly figure out who you were trying to offend. But props on at least getting across the point that you were trying to offend someone - that's a good first step!

Re:1 simple PGP script... (1, Informative)

digitig (1056110) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516893)

It was also wrong, because it refers to Turkey as a muslim country, whereas (despite the alleged reason for this ruling) Turkey is actually a secular state.

Re:1 simple PGP script... (1)

Lars T. (470328) | more than 5 years ago | (#25517051)

It was also wrong, because it refers to Turkey as a muslim country, whereas (despite the alleged reason for this ruling) Turkey is actually a secular state.

Exactly. When was the last time the Supreme Court tried to ban the ruling party because they broke the constitution by being too religious?

Re:1 simple PGP script... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25517125)

Not for being too religious. For being too muslim. The problem is that islam "demands" that the Turkish state be destroyed, violently "if necessary". That's what "no separation between islam and state" means. But also the violence being necessary part is quite explicitly emphasized in their "holy" book. Along with the misery that such an act will bring. After all, it's the "will of allah", right ? Can't have those homosexuals being alive, can we ?

The supreme court of Turkey is right, obviously, the first thing a muslim party (even the supposedly "moderate" one currently in power) would do is terminate all boundaries between religion and state, making turkey an islamist dictatorship, that doesn't respect human rights (no muslim respects human rights, see declaration of Cairo of human rights).

The sad thing, given the contemporary political situation, is that Iran is quite possibly the most democratic muslim state. And if it's not the most democratic muslim state, it won't be far down in the rankings.

You see muslim "democracies" commit genocide on minorities, for that is what islam demands. They publicly execute anyone suspected of being gay. They rape girls, even babies, for that is what islam demands ... They execute anyone for doubting them ... the list goes on and on

Isn't democracy grand ?

Turkey? (5, Insightful)

Guido del Confuso (80037) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516185)

I have to say, I'm really surprised this is happening in Turkey. Turkey is actually a fairly westernized country, and while it is predominantly Islamic, it is quite progressive on religious issues. Its constitution even guarantees freedom of religion (and Turkey has no official state religion), and since 1924 has maintained a secular government. I was led to understand that there is strong opposition in Turkey to the government interfering in matters of religion, but perhaps that is no longer the case for whatever reason...

Re:Turkey? (4, Insightful)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516217)

Its constitution even guarantees freedom of religion...

Regrettably, this was never implemented well in practice, as both the Islamists and the secularists are suspicious of outside religious traditions, whether because they are not Muslim or because they are not "Turkish". Case in point, the attempts to wipe out Eastern Orthodox Christianity in Turkey. The law states that the Ecumenical Patriarch must be a Turkish citizen, and not brought from e.g. Greece or another Orthodox country, but the authorities have tried to shut down all Orthodox seminaries in Turkey so that it's increasingly difficult to raise up a successor.

Re:Turkey? (-1, Flamebait)

OeLeWaPpErKe (412765) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516461)

Turkey is the one muslim country that does not directly attacks anyone with another religion, and commits genocide upon them.

Whether it's African Christians, Hindus (more than 60 million hindus have "disappeared" from pakistan in the last 60 years), or simply people with black skin color in Sudan, genocides are a contemporary trademark of islam everywhere outside of Turkey.

Freedom of religion obviously can only work if that religion does not have doctrine mandating genocide upon non-believers. In other words, it can never cover islam. Preventing said genocide, if part of doctrine, is obviously preventing part of that religion from being practiced. Preventing part is in practice exactly the same as preventing the whole since you'd literally have to cut the 2 biggest chapters out of the quran, over half the book, to prevent people from preaching islamic genocide.

I fear we're going to learn this the hard way.

Re:Turkey? (4, Interesting)

jabithew (1340853) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516535)

What ignorance. What about Bangladesh, Indonesia, Malaysia? They're all peaceful*, large Muslim nations. Indonesia has more Muslims than any other nation.

Besides, intolerance, genocide and xenophobia are a key part of any religious book. It might as well be in the job description. The problem is when people actually listen to the book, and that normally rises out of external issues (e.g. crippling poverty and corruption).

*Granted Indonesia and Malaysia fight a bit, but that's not religiously motivated.

Re:Turkey? (2, Informative)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516731)

There must be two Indonesias, because the one you describe is very different to this one [smh.com.au] .

Re:Turkey? (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516829)

What ignorance. What about Bangladesh, Indonesia, Malaysia? They're all peaceful*,

Peaceful my ass. You should live there first, then open your eyes to know the real issues. there's no democracy in moslem-dominated countries. fucking granted!

Re:Turkey? (1)

XchristX (839963) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516869)

Pakistan is hardly "peaceful" by any means, given the increasing dominance of the Muttahida Majilis-i-Amal and the Jamaat-e-Islami (both vast and powerful Islamist parties), and non-Muslims have been and still are severely persecuted in Pakistan (Sangla hill riots, the 1971 Bangladesh genocide, the forced kidnapping and conversion of Hindu and Christian minorities), as numerous human rights NGO's and various condemnations by the USCIRF have documented exhaustively (in fact, Turkey is markedly better off).

Re:Turkey? (1)

rdnetto (955205) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516995)

"intolerance, genocide and xenophobia" aren't parts of most religions, especially not the major ones. They usually arise from a misinterpretation of the religion's teachings, either by outsiders or by uninformed followers. They are, in effect, heresy. (Note that I do not specifically refer to any religion.) You are write about one thing though - these misinterpretations are usually exacerbated by other factors.

Re:Turkey? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516563)

Yeah, right, like the armenians, and yeah fuck, that fucking kemal (he was a fucking nazi) was a real peace lover...

Re:Turkey? (4, Insightful)

camcorder (759720) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516665)

Thank you now with this post, /. can be banned as well, and even *without needing court approval*. Since you were offensive to Kemal Ataturk.

Re:Turkey? (4, Funny)

Yocto Yotta (840665) | more than 5 years ago | (#25517101)

I think you're mistaken, the Armenian genocides are a figment of your imagination, silly.

Re:Turkey? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516577)

Turkey let you live, but does not give you freedom. If you are quiet about it and invisible they let you unless you get to many in number. And whatever god or non-god you believe in better spare you if get them into their peace-loving-non-genocide mode like the kurds or armenian christians to mention a few.

Re:Turkey? (1)

OeLeWaPpErKe (412765) | more than 5 years ago | (#25517141)

Which, unfortunately, makes them a hell of a lot better than other muslims, who do not "let you live" at all.

Re:Turkey? (1)

amn108 (1231606) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516613)

Turks have had the genocide involving one million executed Armenians on their collective conscience since 1915. An act they refuse to acknowledge, despite numerous and thorough investigations by Eastern and Western parties and governments, dug up massgraves and witness accounts. In fact in both U.S.A. and France, publicly refusing the Armenian genocide is an offense punishable by law.

Also, it can be hardly said about Turkey that they do not attack "anyone with another religion" since their Ottoman empire has ravaged Christian Europe several times and gave Europeans, particularly the Greeks, a very bad time for a good while.

Re:Turkey? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516895)

Are you joking? There were not even 1 million Armenians living in the Ottoan empire those days. These are the unproven claims of the Armenian government (not the people), to which they base all their foreign releations. Turkey is inviting Armenia to open all official documents under an international referee comitee, but Armenian government always refuses that? I guess somebody is afraid of the truth and collapse of their claims!

It's important to note that Turkish and Armenian people are living in peace whereever they are (including Turkey, come and see!). Go read a bit of "unbiased" history to learn the truth!

If Turkish did have any "wish" to do any holocaust, then a lot of the nations in Balkans and Middle East would have dissapeared by now. But they are not. On the contrary, Ottomans were the first government letting a lot of nations to live their own lifestyle and religion. Learn the facts!

Re:Turkey? (1)

Lars T. (470328) | more than 5 years ago | (#25517099)

In fact in both U.S.A. and France, publicly refusing the Armenian genocide is an offense punishable by law.

To paraphrase something that is said in practically every Slashdot discussion about censorship: So to fight the Turks, the Americans have become Turks themselves.

Re:Turkey? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25517185)

It can't be punishable in the United States. It would fall against any sort of first amendment scrutiny. Other countries have laws against denying the holocaust, genocides, etc, but the US doesn't.

Re:Turkey? (5, Interesting)

giorgist (1208992) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516855)

An then there is history

"Turkey is the one Muslim country that does not directly attacks anyone with another religion, and commits genocide upon them."

Pretty much wiped out the Armenians in an inconvenient genocide. The Greeks are gone in repeated pogroms. Any equality was pretty much expressed in the form that everybody got genocided pretty much evenly.

They are now working on the Kurds. A decade ago it was illegal to speak Kurdish, name your child with a Kurdish name, broadcast in Kurdish, used Kurdish colors. This has been relaxed because Turkey wants in on international institutions.

I guess "equality" is a work in progress in Turkey with it trying it equalize everybody into being a particular Turk, God forbid if you are not.

You'd be insulting Turkishness (A criminal offense by the way)

G

Re:Turkey? (1)

electrictroy (912290) | more than 5 years ago | (#25517245)

>>>the authorities have tried to shut down all Orthodox seminaries in Turkey

A lot of this could be fixed by the E.U. (after Turkey becomes a member state). We had similar problems in the early United States, but the force of the central government forced the states to abandon their state-mandated religions & provide freedom. Likewise the European Union's central government could use its authority, backed by a Constitutional central court, to gradually but firmly force Turkey to stop persecuting Christian churches.

It might take 100 years, but eventually the central government would prevail, because the central government holds the power of the purse & can withhold funds to non-compliant states.

Re:Turkey? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516259)

There are some issues that are covered up. There is essentially a cult of personality around their founder Mustafa Kemal. And while Kemal was the person who forced and enshrined secularization on Turkey, this doesn't mean that those ideas are protected. In any country that focuses more on the virtues of a great leader than on the ideas they argued, there will be a level of nationalism and paranoia. Extreme examples include the Soviet Union and North Korea, while milder examples include countries like the United States where the Founding Fathers as a group are used by some certain groups as an absolute authority in a political chess game. If people in the United States can argue for government interfering in matters of religion and base their arguments on the minor cult of personality surrounding the Founding Fathers (i.e. the Founders wanted a "Christian nation" argument), a much more conservative government with a much stronger cult of personality in Turkey can take it to the extreme.

Re:Turkey? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516439)

Ridiculous point. You do realise that your critique applies much more to islam than to kemalism. Anybody who thinks muslims worship "allah" and not muhammad need only listen to them for 5 minutes, and you'll find it to be a personality with little argument remaining.

Kemalism per contrast, is much more focused on ideas, even if those ideas are militarily enforced secularism. Also note that if there are demonstrations, they do not focus on Kemal Ataturk, they focus on his ideas, they focus on secularism. Kemalism is much more like other religions and ideologies, that focus on the ideas of the person they worship, not the person himself. Kemalism leaves just about everything open, except one central point. Islam is totalitarian, down to forcing muslims to wipe their ass with 9 stones and only their left hand (not a joke).

islamic genocides, unlike kemalist demonstrations, never focus on ideas, they never bring solutions. They focus on this one person, and they focus on political power. They have no intrest in principles.

Re:Turkey? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516673)

Kemalists are totalitarian, that is why there is a military dictatorship in turkey. That is why there are no personal freedoms in turkey, that is why if you wear a bandana in turkey you are forbidden to study, because they do not want educated religious people.

Kemalism and Islamism are both politicized religious beliefs and practices and one worse than the other as kemalism hides its true face, freedom-by-oppression. Its a oxymoron, the higher ups running the show have all the freedoms and everyone serves them just like a priest as long as they continue preach their religion.

And if you are an american, you are a moron. Because you people talk about freedoms and how its worth dying for. Well the turkish people are suffering for their freedoms and the military is beating them down, that is kemalism.

Re:Turkey? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516293)

And they wonder why they're having such a difficult time becoming an EU member. yeah...

Re:Turkey? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516297)

Because the strong opposition was introduced on paper when anti-colonial nationalism was widespread throughout Turkey and many other Muslim countries.

Religious fundamentalists are more influential than secular nationalists across all these countries nowadays, though - I daresay that only the historical influence of Ataturk prevents Turkey from slipping further into Muslim fundamentalism.

Re:Turkey? (1)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516399)

The current Turkish government is of a moderate muslim party. The army is very cautious about maintaining the religion-neutral standard of the country but rampant islamisation happen. religious diplomas get some recognition they shouldn't have, the veil has sparked some debate, alcohol is made harder to find in some places... This ruling, however, probably happened because of a judge that didn't understand what blogger is. It will probably be canceled.

Turkey is a military dictatorship. (5, Informative)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516475)

The modern western turkey was founded by Ataturk and is currently enforced by the military. The democracy part of Turkey ONLY exists as long as it does what the military wants and in the past the military HAS intefened several times when the elected leaders did NOT do what it wants.

The sad and confusing thing is that from a WESTERN point of view it is the MILITARY that is right and the public/voter/elected leaders who are wrong. It is the MILITARY that wants a STRICT seperation of church and state, even going so far that Turkey is NOT an islamic nation. It has NO STATE RELIGION. There is equality, press freedom etc etc. Because the military says so.

The voter however in recent years has been increasingly voting for religious parties. The reasons for this are complex. Part of the problem is that the current system works to well. In those cases people tend to forget what brings them their current prosperity. Turkey is doing amazingly well but it is a bit like the US where places like New York and LA are being outvoted by the people from the bible belt. So, right now the country is being torn. If the voter is allowed to elect religious leaders then that is the democracy that the EU wants in its members BUT it would also mean Turkey slides into an islamic nation the EU does NOT want on its borders. Allow the military to keep the current system and Turkey is dictatorship in all but name, something the EU could never allow a member to be.

As for the individual Turk, well, there is of course no such thing. You might as well label all US slashdotters along with that comment in Oprah story yesterday where she was considered new age because she said there might be more then one way to heaven then through jesus. The religious right is on the rise. Turkey is struggling with its desire to be a democracy and the risk this would cause it to slide into a islamic dictatorship.

It does raise the intresting question, if people elected their dictators, is it still a dictatorship? Make no mistake, the people who protest this bloggers ban are NOT intrested in democracy. They want to turn Turkey into an Islamic state where the islamic law rules. They just know that their best bet to get this is through the voting booth because any violent means to do this would be opposed harshly by the military.

Westerners find this hard to understand. We are used to thinking of the military as the opressors. Not the guardians of freedom.

Re:Turkey is a military dictatorship. (1)

lixee (863589) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516569)

"Equality"? "Press freedom"? Go tell that to the Kurds!

Re:Turkey is a military dictatorship. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516695)

"Equality"? "Press freedom"? Go tell that to the Kurds!

AFAIK,there is no law that states kurds aren't equal to any other turkish citizen.

Of course,there have been problems with rights just like any other new governments.

Re:Turkey is a military dictatorship. (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516591)

Make no mistake, the people who protest this bloggers ban are NOT intrested in democracy. They want to turn Turkey into an Islamic state where the islamic law rules.

Why do you think that Islamic law contradicts democracy? A repressive, bloody tyranny-of-the-majority is still a democracy...

Re:Turkey is a military dictatorship. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516703)

As opposed to the military DICTATORSHIP in kemalist turkey.

Re:Turkey is a military dictatorship. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516785)

There's a missing piece in all these comments. Turkey had to choose a side when cold war started and since USSR had made its intentions to control Bosphorus and Dardanelles this side had to be West. Since then Turkish military is part of NATO and military works for the benefit of West. It's not unknown that 80 coup was made under approval maybe control of US (as made in Latin America). The undemocratic climate of Turkey created by military was always for the benefit of West (and rulers of course). Interestingly the current Islamic government of Turkey still works for the benefit of US because US wants a western ally and mostly Sunni (opposed to Iran) Turkey to be an example for the middle east. Of course this can't be achieve with a strict non-muslim (secular) state because they want a religious influence.

Re:Turkey is a military dictatorship. (2)

Shin-LaC (1333529) | more than 5 years ago | (#25517205)

It does raise the intresting question, if people elected their dictators, is it still a dictatorship?

You might recall that Hitler was elected by the German people. I don't think there's any question that he was still a dictator.

Re:Turkey? (1)

Cosmic AC (1094985) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516513)

Were you surprised 19 months ago, when Turkey banned Youtube?

Re:Turkey? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516519)

There is no religious freedoms in turkey, there is religious oppression by the secularists of the religious people. Turkey is anti-religion, especially anti-islamic as jews and christians are not under scrutiny and are free to practice whatever they wish as long as they do not mess with the secularists.

What kind of religious freedom is it when people are banned from friday prayers (like the jewish sabbat and the christian sunday to muslims as I understand it). Turkey is probably the most backward westernized country in the east. Half-foot in the westernized freedom ideals where it suits it, and half-foot in the backward 15th century ideals of church rules them all except that its the secularist church.

Because of their backwardness people dont want the "great satan" (yeah, turkey is called this way in europe) to join the european union, and the turkish people want to join the european union because EU would actually force turkey to either get both feet in the ideals of freedom or get the fuck out of their way.

Westernized, fuck, its a fucking military dictatorship with goons faking democracy, and its all in the open, if one of the goons gets any ideas not supported by the military dictator, they will be overthrown and replaced by a more compliant goon. Does not matter if the majority of people there are muslims, they are no islamists.

Re:Turkey? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516579)

You need to wake up. This is Turkey's modus operandi. The Dutch blogger should be happy if he comes out of this alive. They've killed for lesser offenses in the name of "Turkishness"... why should they stop now. Appearances are only skin deep... think before blogging, and you won't look so uninformed. Next you'll be saying that the US is Lily White, and had nothing to do with Kennedy's assassination or 9-11.

Re:Turkey? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516645)

There is actually strong opposition to the government interfering in matters of religion but they are militarists and nationalists, in practice more conservative than the government itself.

The "real" opposition (those who struggle for the rights of minorities, for example) frequently face the court.

It is hard to understand the politics of Turkey for a citizen used to the European or even North American political spectrum.

Re:Turkey? (1)

blind biker (1066130) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516681)

I was led to understand that there is strong opposition in Turkey to the government interfering in matters of religion, but perhaps that is no longer the case for whatever reason...

For whatever reason? Have you been sleeping under a rock for the last 10 years? I guess you have, so let me get you up to speed: the majority in Turkey are conservative Muslims (of the 99.8% who are Muslim), and they can vote - and they have, indeed, voted in the traditionalist Muslim AKP that got 46.7% of the vote. The AKP had no problem forming a steamrolling government. The AKP has 340 out of 550 seats in parliament!

So that's your "whatever reason". The AKP govt. has been dismantling the pillars of turkish secularism since they first came into power. This is no news, but it's mind boggling that you would be "surprised"?!

Re:Turkey? (1)

nusuth (520833) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516911)

Well you are right to be surprised, since this has nothing to with religion. The culprit is the new cyber law. Until a few years ago, Turkey had no laws regarding to content on internet. Unless the server is on Turkish soil, the state had no way to stop a publication...which is, of course, how it should be. However Turkish state is not comfortable with a medium it cannot control, and they had their excuse for censorship: widespread misinformation, slender attacks and publication of private videos on internet. This led to a very ill conceived cyber-censoring law. The law makes whole sites inaccessible after a court order, even if the court order is about only one offending page among thousands of unrelated pages on the site. To make your site accessible for Turkish users, the someone must contact the court, prove the offending content is now removed and the site is harmless. Obviously, this does not happen often.

The censorship law is not strongly enforced, and AFAIK there are no consequences of accessing a banned site for individual users whatsoever. Therefore, in practice, the law had only one real consequence: widespread adoption of proxy usage among Turkish net users. Even those who have no idea what a proxy is, nowadays knows how to use one.

Re:Turkey? (1)

TheLink (130905) | more than 5 years ago | (#25517247)

Why surprised? It's practically inevitable.

As you said: "it is predominantly Islamic"

There is a big conflict between secularism + the near worship of Ataturk and actually following what the Koran says, based on very popular interpretations of Islam.

The muslims in Turkey who think they can have secularism, "The Ataturk Way" etc are either ignorant about their own religion (which is very common) or in denial.

If they really want to keep things as much as they are now, they are going to have to _actively_ work very hard to see if there is some other way to interpret the Koran (and the Hadith if they are Sunnis).

They can't just sit by passively.

If they are muslims, there are no other options but what I say - follow the existing popular interpretations of Islam (which means the Turkish secular way is OUT), or find a new and acceptable way of interpreting what the Koran says (good luck with that).

You might say change religion, but go look up Apostasy and Islam and you'll see it's not quite as easy as that.

Reality knocks (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516251)

If you have followed events in Turkey this does not come as a surprise. Let's hope they will never be allowed to join the EU.

Re:Reality knocks (5, Insightful)

justleavealonemmmkay (1207142) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516281)

Let's hope they will never be allowed to join the EU.

Let's hope they change their ways so that we wish them to join the EU.

Re:Reality knocks (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516315)

Let's hope they will never be allowed to join the EU.

Let's hope they change their ways so that we wish them to join the EU.

Like a German comedian of turkish descent once said:

What are you talking about? We're already here.

Re:Reality knocks (1)

JCWDenton (851047) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516631)

Perhaps both parties could strive to look beyond their superficial impressions of each other.

So take, say, Turkey, half third world; I mean in Turkey, the intellectuals, the leading intellectuals, now best known writers, academics, journalists, artists I mean they not only protest atrocities about the Kurdish massacre, they protest it constantly, but they were also constant in carrying out civil disobedience against them. I also participated with them sometimes. And they go publish banned writings which reported presented them to the Prosecutor's Office, demand they were prosecuted. It's not a joke, you know, facing... sometimes they are sent to prison, that's no joke. There's nothing like that in the West. Inconceivable.

When I am in Western Europe I hear them telling me Turkey is not civilized enough to enter the European Union. I burst out laughing! It's the other way round.

Re:Reality knocks (0, Redundant)

richlv (778496) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516877)

this might be my bad english understanding, or some translation issue - but the text you cited somehow didn't make much sense.
what's the main point of that citation and what does the second half of the first paragraph say (i lost my way around the 'prosecutor' part) ?

Re:Reality knocks (1)

JCWDenton (851047) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516993)

The point is there is plenty for everyone to learn from Turkish society. In particular they way their intellectuals take their responsibilities serious and dissent.

The second part describes how they put their dissent in action; by publishing texts banned by the state and then demanding to be prosecuted for their 'crimes' so to attract attention to the freedoms that oppressed in Turkey.

My mistake for not mentioning the source. I forgot, sorry. The speaker is Noam Chomsky. http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/20060425.htm [chomsky.info]

Re:Reality knocks (1)

joaobranco (55662) | more than 5 years ago | (#25517053)

Perhaps both parties could strive to look beyond their superficial impressions of each other.

So take, say, Turkey, half third world; I mean in Turkey, the intellectuals, the leading intellectuals, now best known writers, academics, journalists, artists I mean they not only protest atrocities about the Kurdish massacre, they protest it constantly, but they were also constant in carrying out civil disobedience against them. I also participated with them sometimes. And they go publish banned writings which reported presented them to the Prosecutor's Office, demand they were prosecuted. It's not a joke, you know, facing... sometimes they are sent to prison, that's no joke. There's nothing like that in the West. Inconceivable. When I am in Western Europe I hear them telling me Turkey is not civilized enough to enter the European Union. I burst out laughing! It's the other way round.

Perhaps there is not such civil desobidience in the EU because such acts are not forbidden to begin with? The main complaint in the EU regarding Turkey has been with absurd laws that grant too much power and are seldom enforced except against "enemies".

Re:Reality knocks (1)

Shin-LaC (1333529) | more than 5 years ago | (#25517267)

Turkey is not the only one that needs to change. The EU is having enough trouble operating with the current 27 members: before it can consider expanding, it needs to reform itself, and then it will need time to stabilize in its new form. Right now we're not even sure what direction we want the reforms to take, so I think it'll take years before it makes sense to consider the possibility of Turkish accession.

Re:Reality knocks (0, Troll)

isorox (205688) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516291)

If you have followed events in Turkey this does not come as a surprise. Let's hope they will never be allowed to join the EU.

It's laughable that it would even be considered.

Re:Reality knocks (1)

Jens Egon (947467) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516499)

Like it was laughable that France and Germany should ever be friends [wikipedia.org]

This is the original purpose of the EU: To achieve lasting peace through application of the three e's. Embrace, Extend, Empower.

So, are you saying we should seek peace only with our enemies, not with our friends? Or am I using the wrong three e's?

Re:Reality knocks (1)

OeLeWaPpErKe (412765) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516543)

That's because the european dictatorship sees a possibility to grow it's power. (the EU is also an undemocratic institution, with the real decisions made by the unelected comission, but don't worry, it's not guarding any freedoms, in fact it's already take sovereignty from many of it's subject states)

You cannot convince any unelected institution to decrease it's power. It just can't be done. Fortunately Turkey is in no hurry to comply.

Re:Reality knocks (1)

lordholm (649770) | more than 5 years ago | (#25517123)

The commission is appointed by the governments in the member states and must be approved by the european parliament.

Compare this with how the local governments are appointed: The prime minister is appointed by the parliament and he elects ministers that must be approved by the parliament.

Just how much less democratic is the commission compared to you local government? Probably not that much. And (as have already happened), if the commission misbehaves, the entire commission may be forced to resign.

Now, the real problem in the EU is the council of ministers that is composed by the ministers from the different states. But if the council misbehaves, they will still be there, as their misbehaviour will not affect the state-governments. They are also not directly elected and have legislative rights in the EU and executive rights in their own states.

There are problems with the EU, but the commission is hardly one of them. They do get a lot of blame, but about 95% of it is completely unfounded and just based on a false notion that the commission is unelected (like the cabinets of each member-states would be any more elected).

In a representative and parliamentarian democracy that we have here in Europe, it is very uncommon to elect the executive body, but the lawmakers are elected by the people. And the commission have no right to make new laws (they can propose law in some areas (much like in the state-governments), but those laws have to pass through the parliament and the council).

Don't blame the commission for the problems with the Union, they are clearly not to blame when the system works as it does.

In principle, the only way to make the Union fully democratic is to substantially reform the Council, but all the ideas that are at least somewhat constructive and that want to bring power to the EP are usually very quickly dismissed as being federalistic; which is true to some extent, but federalism is the only way to have a properly working supranational body without a democratic deficit (any other idea, please tell me, because I have heard of no such concrete proposal).

Re:Reality knocks (1)

owlnation (858981) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516567)

It's laughable that it would even be considered.

It was only considered through political pressure from the UK, Spain, Poland, and US governments as a "reward" for Turkey's assistance in the Iraq War. Most other EU countries resisted Turkey's inclusion based on its appalling human rights record, and you know... geography...

Re:Reality knocks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25517153)

I'm sure a good number of western governments would be more than happy to be able to do the same.

heh they should jam all the religious nuts (4, Funny)

ionix5891 (1228718) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516313)

on this bus [guim.co.uk]

fracking religion what good has it ever done

sigh

Re:heh they should jam all the religious nuts (3, Informative)

ionix5891 (1228718) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516415)

btw the image is taken from this comment is free article [guardian.co.uk]

the article and the comments that followed make for an interesting sunday read

Thanks for the information (1)

mangu (126918) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516571)

I followed the link you posted, those are truly interesting ideas they are raising.

The most interesting point someone raised was this: if religion gets so many subsidies and tax breaks, shouldn't atheist organizations be entitled to the same treatment?

Re:Thanks for the information (1)

leathered (780018) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516721)

In the UK, the British Humanist Association, the Richard Dawkins Foundation and others do have charitable status; the latter also having similar status in the US. So they are indeed subject to tax breaks.

Re:heh they should jam all the religious nuts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516597)

"fracking religion what good has it ever done"

Well to answer that question it would seem wise to split up the religions. Then look up in history books and construct a "before" and "after" part.

The basic story is quite simple. Before religions were able to cover any reasonable ground there were all these villages that never advanced, but basically every now and then killed their neighbouring villages to the last man, sometimes but not always sparing (*and* raping) young women. Agriculture was known, but never got very far, and always fell victim to plunder. A plundering mass was the only military association ever made.

Then came religions. The first well-known ones were buddhism (with, unlike now, a physical buddha preaching violence) and the religion that is described in plato's "republic" (the romans may have had many gods, they worshipped the republic above any god). So, do what a scientist would do. Read the books about what happened to the Romans. Both the "golden age" and the decay. Don't stop there, obviously.

Go to Israel. Look around. Better or worse than the above picture ?

Then go to America, look around.

Then go to Saudi Arabia, look around. Make sure to get a few pictures from the public executions, and make sure to go into a bookshop. If you've got the balls, go to Darfur (if you're white, don't make the mistake of going alone, or unarmed, and if I were black, I wouldn't risk it either). If you're totally insane, go to somalia.

Then go to North korea, because you might think that all this is only due to religion. Look around.

Does that answer your question ?

Re:heh they should jam all the religious nuts (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516693)

Then go to North korea, because you might think that all this is only due to religion. Look around.

Comparing North Korea and any of your other examples introduces far too many variables. Why not look at a study which keeps these factors constant by only comparing instances of creator-worship in western democracies [smh.com.au] .

Re:heh they should jam all the religious nuts (1)

ionix5891 (1228718) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516727)

sometimes but not always sparing (*and* raping) young women.
what changed? now we have priests raping young boys

Read the books about what happened to the Romans they empire stretched the known world and culture that build great work, science that was ahead of their time, roads and aqueducts built, funny how their downfall came around the time the "church" came into existence and for the next 1000 years europe was plunged into a feudal dark age


Then go to America, look around.

american taliban [ucsd.edu]

The first well-known ones were buddhism
buddhism is not a religion btw

If you've got the balls, go to Darfu
why doesnt they US military go there to protect the people from barbaric brutality like they did in Iraq? hmm let me see, no oil

Re:heh they should jam all the religious nuts (1)

megrims (839585) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516813)

The set of people in our society who are child-molestors includes people who are Priests. To imply that the profession has anything to do with it is logically unsound.

Note that religion wasn't a new thing when Christianity came into play; blaming any kind of cultural problem on the fact that people believe can be more absurd than the belief itself.

Belief concerns the things we cannot observe, and therefore supports the scientific world-view, although the issues that are subject to each are quite different.

Some people don't think, and make stupid choices, especially under the influence of aggressive cultures: this is not a result of religion (although religion is often present), but a direct result of certain kinds* of people coming into any form of power.

*Maybe all of us would be capable of the incredibly destructive uses of society-systems that we have observed in the past; it is impossible to say, because we do not have enough examples.

Re:heh they should jam all the religious nuts (1)

ZosX (517789) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516971)

How is Buddhism not a religion? It is practiced in many forms...Zen Buddhism is my favorite. I guess you can call it methodology or a practice. For many, including myself, it is at least a perspective that involves some level of belief. I guess the same could be said about our "objective" physical reality.

Re:heh they should jam all the religious nuts (1)

PeterBrett (780946) | more than 5 years ago | (#25517255)

Read the books about what happened to the Romans they empire stretched the known world and culture that build great work, science that was ahead of their time, roads and aqueducts built, funny how their downfall came around the time the "church" came into existence and for the next 1000 years europe was plunged into a feudal dark age

Bahahahaha. Correlation != causation. And anyway, whats a few hundred years of prosperous coexistence between friends?

Re:heh they should jam all the religious nuts (1)

SpinyNorman (33776) | more than 5 years ago | (#25517261)

I don't think there's too much connection between the rise of Christianity and the fall of the Roman empire. The traditional argument as espoused by Gibbon's "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" is essentially that Rome spread itself too thin and became weak due to having to fund an enormous army and continually fight battles on all it's borders; a more recent argument is that instead it was primarily a matter of the barbarians (i.e Germanic/etc tribes surrounding the empire) becoming stronger under constant contact with Rome untik they'd reached the point (together with more porous borders - barbarians settled within the empire, etc) that they were able to topple Rome.

http://www.amazon.com/Fall-Roman-Empire-History-Barbarians/dp/0195325419/ [amazon.com]

The empire really was in a downward trajectory for a couple hundren years before it fell, not helped by a couple of awful epidemics that eached wiped out a large percentage (maybe 25-30% each time) of the population. The traditional roman religion which held society together was losing favor due to the apparent failure of the gods to protect them from the strife. It probably is true that Christianity was no replacement for the traditional roman religion it in terms of cohesiveness - much more in-fighting among the various factions that existed at that time, but it's probably better to regard the rise of Christianity as more symptomatic of the weakening of the empire (creating a possibility for change)than as a major cause of it.

Why bans happen this much in Turkey (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516401)

I'm from Turkey. As far as I know bans happen this way: If court decides that the content is illegal (attacking personal rights, advertising drugs etc.) they contact the owner of the site and demand the content to be removed. If the owner doesn't comply they ban the site. Previously bans happened by modifying DNS data of the de facto ISP monopoly in Turkey and redirecting sites to another page with legal information. This was easily circumvented by using another DNS. Then they started blocking IP addresses. Interesting thing is they don't block IP addresses of all banned sites. They only do this to popular sites and I believe courts are not deciding this. Someone outside courts decides that they must do IP blocking or not.
The law which orders bans also have a precaution clause which permits getting a site banned before court decides that the content is illegal or not. Bad guys uses this legal loophole to ban web sites easily.

Is there anything positive about Islam? (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516837)

Let's see...

Using ideological disagreements as a reason to oppress or kill other people, even other Muslims? Nope.

Forcing women to cover themselves from head to toe and basically be reduced to the status of the family dog, and beating her mercilessly if she forgets her place? Nope.

Gouging out young womens' clitorises in the name of keeping them pure for the abusive pig-fucker that will eventually be chosen as their husband? Nope.

Casting rape victims out of the community? Nope.

Executing homosexuals? Nope.

Lying to the western media while inciting genocide in front of the local media? Nope.

Banning alcohol, even in moderation? Nope.

Gunning down Theo Van Gogh and pinning an Islamic hate tract to his chest with a knife? Nope.

Burning cars and murdering random people en masse every time Muslims perceive the tiniest slighgt against their religion or their pedophile "prophet" (i.e. Dutch cartoons, Paris riots)? Nope.

Let's face it, Muslims. It's time to grow up, leave your 12th century beliefs behind, and join the rest of the adult world.

President Hussein's agenda (0, Troll)

Porchroof (726270) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516407)

We'll be seeing the same thing happening in the United States after Barry Hussein O'bama is elected President

Hussein has already banned interviews with a TV station in Florida because the station's reporter had the gall to ask Joe "The Senator" Biden some tough questions.

Re:President Hussein's agenda (1)

Ihmhi (1206036) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516493)

Surely the White House wouldn't refuse to give interviews because someone asks hard questions! Oh wait...

Re:President Hussein's agenda (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516541)

We'll be seeing the same thing happening in the United States after Barry Hussein O'bama is elected President.

Stop being a dipshit. Your hyperbole only indicates how fully you don't understand the fucked up shit that's happening in other parts of the world where people are actually being oppressed, banned, harassed, and censored (as opposed to the hard right in America, who love to claim that they are subjected to all of the above when really all that's happening is that people are just ignoring them or declining to engage at their level).

Re:President Hussein's agenda (1)

just_a_monkey (1004343) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516625)

What, really? Source!

YouTube is still banned in Turkey (4, Informative)

unixmaster (573907) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516409)

As a Turkey citizen all I can say is this sucks a lot, but does not surprise me a little. YouTube is banned for months and the ban won't seem to be lifted soon.

Re:YouTube is still banned in Turkey (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516705)

Well if you're a muslim shouldn't you be excited about it ? After all, the paedophile prophet did the same, even sending out murderers to those who did not comply.

Besides the internet is not all they're after. They're after tv, music, any text (other than), dancing, many kinds of food, ...

But if that's your religion, it's positive right ? You never hearing any music, never seeing tv, never touching the internet, after all, is "allah's will".

Re:YouTube is still banned in Turkey (1)

stikves (127823) | more than 5 years ago | (#25517157)

Thanks for you mature comment. I hope by writing this, and listening to music on my computer I don't become a hypocrite.

Well, actually I don't think so :)

First Post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516615)

is mired in an a 3ead man walking. 40,000 coming NIIGER ASSOCIATION

the culprit is not adnan oktar in this case (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516641)

it has been revealed that it was digiturk, a paid satellite tv company broadcasting live soccer matches -one of the most lucrative businesses in turkey, who had the blogger banned. justin.tv and et al have been diminishing their prospective profits for some time and blogger posts with embedded flash widgets, for direct watching mind you, had been the first virtual spots they decided to attack.

Copyright infringement (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516655)

Hi,

As far i know,this has nothing to do with religious or scientific matters.

Blogger was shut down due to copyright infrigement;Digiturk, a satellite tv provider, asked some blogs to remove their content but when this did not happen,they chose to shut down all the blogs.

Which is admittedly an idiotic move...

BTw,people please stop bringing up Eu at every subject about Turkey.

Bad Turkey, no EU for you! (2, Insightful)

Rumagent (86695) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516709)

And there are people who still argue that Turkey should be allowed to join the EU. We have enough problems as is, let us not compound them by giving (more) religious zealots power in Europe.

Re:Bad Turkey, no EU for you! (1)

Neon Aardvark (967388) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516741)

Yes, there are indeed. For example, the current US government. The idea of Turkey joining the EU seems to be a wet dream for them, for some reason.

Re:Bad Turkey, no EU for you! (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516787)

When Mexico is admitted as the 51st state, we'll consider it.

Re:Bad Turkey, no EU for you! (1)

Gavagai80 (1275204) | more than 5 years ago | (#25517191)

Mexico was already admitted in the 1840s.

Couple of points... (1)

kaos07 (1113443) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516749)

First of all, no one knows why the site was banned. The article admits it's pure speculation. Secondly, if the article's hypothesis is correct then unlike what some comments are suggesting, it was not to crackdown on anti-Islamic views but the exact opposite. A prominent Muslim creationist has apparently been promoting his views on Blogger so it's been banned, like other sites he posted on before. That's the theory.

And seriously, you're saying that Turkey shouldn't be allowed in the EU because it restricts "freedom of speech"? What about Austria and Germany, where it's a punishable offence to deny the holocaust? They've arrested an Australian citizen for doing exactly that. Clearly Austria and Germany should be thrown out of the EU. What's ironic about Austria is that the neo-fascists there have recently had resounding success at the elections. But that's another story.

Re:Couple of points... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516769)

It is because of copyright infringement.Some blogs have been streaming videos exclusive to a satellite tv provider.

Culprit is found and... (2, Informative)

zonestalker (883074) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516789)

No it's not about Adnan Oktar, suprisingly. It's all about streaming soccer games and corporate stupidity. Some blogger blogs offer links to streaming media, so the corporation which has a monopoly on soccer game viewing access (yeah, bravo sierra is written all over it) gets pissed off and blocks whole nine yards of blogger. Greed is evil, wherever whenever.

Re:Culprit is found and... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516841)

... and the supporting link is here: http://cyberlaw.org.uk/2008/10/26/live-football-streaming-piracy-seems-to-be-the-cause-of-access-blocking-to-bloggercom-in-turkey/

Adnan Oktar/Harun Yayha (3, Informative)

milo_a_wagner (1002274) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516801)

Some of us have been keeping an eye on this lunatic for some time:

http://counterknowledge.com/?p=223 [counterknowledge.com]

http://counterknowledge.com/?p=157 [counterknowledge.com]

http://counterknowledge.com/?p=72 [counterknowledge.com]

He seems to have a stranglehold over the Turkish courts, and is gradually silencing any and all outlets of dissent under flawed defamation and libel law.

Copyright Infringement (1)

hgzr (1394231) | more than 5 years ago | (#25516833)

This ban isn't about religious extremism.It's about copyright infringement. Quite possibly,it was about soccer videos streamed on blog.

Government intimidation of free speech (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516923)

Right here in the US:

Government computers used to find information on Joe the Plumber [dispatch.com]

"State and local officials are investigating if state and law-enforcement computer systems were illegally accessed when they were tapped for personal information about "Joe the Plumber."

Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher became part of the national political lexicon Oct. 15 when Republican presidential candidate John McCain mentioned him frequently during his final debate with Democrat Barack Obama.

The 34-year-old from the Toledo suburb of Holland is held out by McCain as an example of an American who would be harmed by Obama's tax proposals.

Public records requested by The Dispatch disclose that information on Wurzelbacher's driver's license or his sport-utility vehicle was pulled from the Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles database three times shortly after the debate.

Information on Wurzelbacher was accessed by accounts assigned to the office of Ohio Attorney General Nancy H. Rogers, the Cuyahoga County Child Support Enforcement Agency and the Toledo Police Department.

This is thuggish intimidation with the express purpose of suppressing criticism of Barack Obama and his policies of "share the wealth", otherwise known as "Socialism" and/or "Marxism".

And there's a really comforting pattern of misconduct when it comes to Barack Obama:

Chief of firm involved in breach is Obama adviser [cnn.com]

The CEO of a company whose employee is accused of improperly looking at the passport files of presidential candidates is a consultant to the Barack Obama campaign, a source said Saturday.

Nice.

Fear for your freedom as well as your wallet.

One wonders how many times the story of this invasion of Joe the Plumber's privacy has been submitted to Slashdot.

You are all misinformed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516937)

It is amazing how much stuff people make up just to confirm their prejudices be they some vague anti-Turkish feeling or some anti-religion thing.

As it turns out, the real reason in this case was intellectual property. Some pay-per-view broadcaster secured an injunction on the grounds that the blog-hosting companies were not cooperating in preventing the dissemination of info about P2P TV carrying 'their' content. Here's a link in Turkish:

http://turk.internet.com/haber/yazigoster.php3?yaziid=22155

You don't know anything about the ban (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516963)

The reason of the Blogger ban is pirated football matches. Not about anything you talked about... The judges don't know anything about internet and Blogger.com. So they ban entire blog or video services because of 1 or 2 blog or video on them... Silly?.. Yes...

Reason of the ban... (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25516977)

The ban is not about Adnan Oktar or some religious subject but simply is about Digiturk which holds the right to broadcast the Turkish Football Super League.

Digiturk claims that the bloggers illegally streams the matches (you have to buy a receiver and a special card in order to view the Turkish Super League) from internet via their blogs.

Therefore they appeal to court and court bans the whole sites ending with ...blogspot.com abd blogger.com. Therefore the complete blogger has
been banned.

I admit that this is totally bullshit but not everything in Turkey is not about religion etc.

Best regards,

"anonymous coward".

Who the fuck are Americans to criticize Turkey? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25517087)

You people have one of the most God awful governments in the world, you are one the world's chief violators of human rights, you are one of the world's largest polluters, and have the largest percentage of incarcertated people of any nation on the face of the earth and you go around try export your bullshit hypocritical values to other parts of the world. America critizing secular democratic like Turkey on human rights is fucking joke.

As someone else mentioned (5, Informative)

stikves (127823) | more than 5 years ago | (#25517145)

It's not a government ban, but actually caused vy a loophole in the law. (It has never been a government ban, nevertheless it's embarrassing).

*Any* court can order the ban of *any* website in Turkey. It only takes a single prosecutor deeming the case worthy, and a judge accepting it.

So for example, you can complain "google is infringing on my intellectual property", and if the prosecutor buys it, the judge can put in a preliminary motion to ban google. The ISPs can not do anything about it (except for going for an appeal).

The related law is being questioned, and will probably be replaced soon. (Hopefully).

It has nothing to do with religion (1)

kucukzambur (1394257) | more than 5 years ago | (#25517155)

Contrary to the belief these incidents rarely have links to religion or religious beliefs.
Most of those sites are banned because they "insulted Ataturk" , insulted "Turkishness" or contains "personal insults", nothing to do with the religion or islam.

They are banned because current laws make it possible, you can sue a website, and say it has incorrect insults to you, prove it and court orders closing the whole domain, not the single page. Most of the time Turkish courts, lawmakers have no idea about internet and technology.

And believe me, Ataturk is a much much more sensitive and dangerous subject than religion in Turkey.

As a turkish citizen (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25517209)

I suggest that the international community should ban Turkey from the internet.

That is the only logical solution.

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