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Fallout 3 Launches Amidst Controversy

Soulskill posted more than 4 years ago | from the or-fallout-one-might-say dept.

Role Playing (Games) 397

Earlier this week, Bethesda released Fallout 3 after a long campaign of defending and protecting the game's reputation from claims that it contained inappropriate content. Ads for the game in Washington DC's subway system were pulled after they upset some touchy travelers over the depiction of post-apocalyptic Washington landmarks. Shortly before the game's release, early trailers were removed as well. Earlier this year, the game was banned in Australia for its in-game use of morphine, causing the drug's name to be changed to Med-X. On the issue of sensitive content, Bethesda's Emil Pagliarulo wrote in Edge Magazine about the design decision to disallow the killing of children in the game. Gamasutra ran an opinion piece on the same subject, and the Washington Post discusses the role of Washington DC in Fallout 3. On the DRM front, the game does come with SecuROM, but Bethesda says it's only used for a disc check. Reviews for the game have been overwhelmingly positive so far, despite reports of bugs with the save system and occasional lock-ups.

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I really love Fallout. (5, Interesting)

KGIII (973947) | more than 4 years ago | (#25595859)

With all of the controversy surrounding Fallout 3 I'd have to say that Bethesda's doing a good job at keeping the game's reputation alive. I haven't ordered it yet but I'll be getting the deluxe version with the booklet and DVD.

Actually, I'm not doing anything more important so...

I'm a bit disappointed that you can't kill kids in the game but I suspect someone will find a way to patch it so that you can. Either way, it is a must have game for me with or without DRM.

Re:I really love Fallout. (2, Informative)

imbaczek (690596) | more than 4 years ago | (#25595905)

I've played the two original Fallout games (loved them BTW) and recently had an occasion to play F3. Don't get your hopes too high if you were a fan of the prequels, because this game is not Fallout. Fallout-ish is a better term, but IMO it doesn't capture the feel of its predecessors.

Re:I really love Fallout. (1)

KGIII (973947) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596017)

Yeah, that is my understanding as well. I suspect that I won't like it nearly as much as Fallout 2 but, then again, nothing can compare (IMO) with FO2. I still fire up FO2 and play it quite often actually, even after all these years. I've watched the trailers, I've not yet played, but I'm not expecting it to be the same and I don't expect it to be better.

I just have to play it because it's Fallout. I'm not a very big gamer or anything but if they came out with a new Zork I'd probably buy that one too.

Re:I really love Fallout. (1)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596089)

I agree. So far, I think it's a good game, but I wouldn't have bought it or cared about it without the fallout name.

Re:I really love Fallout. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#25596155)

This argument gets made again, and again, and again for EVERY sequel that's ever made, and you know what? It's almost inevitably WRONG and people don't realize it until time has passed and the game has cemented some fond memories in their heads. After which, they'll complain that the next game "isn't like fallout 3".

I remember when Fallout 1 was released and people bitched that it wasn't as good as Wasteland and that it didn't capture the feel that made Wasteland unique.

Re:I really love Fallout. (5, Interesting)

KozmoStevnNaut (630146) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596201)

Having played it almost non-stop since the european release (oct. 30), I will say that it's Fallout, but not as you know it. Approach it with an open mind and don't be afraid to explore. The game will guide you a bit better than the originals, but it's still very easy to get yourself into some serious trouble.

Yes, there is a bit of console-ism in the feel of the game, but holding your trusty hunting rifle as you crest a hill and look across the barren capital wasteland, the sun scorching the desolate landscape, the wind howling and kicking up dust devils, your geiger counter ticking because of the ooze-filled barrels in the abandoned scrapyard below, it just feels right. I haven't even really bothered with the main quest so far, I'm having far too much fun exploring what's left of civilization.

Wandering across the desert and keeping an eye out for radscorpions, raiders, molerats etc. you might come across a manhole cover hidden in some shrubs or perhaps spot a radio tower that's still standing. And you're definitely rewarded for exploring, perhaps not in loot, but definitely in immersive experiences.

I love and treasure the experiences I've had in Fallouts 1 and 2, and Fallout 3 is definitely shaping up to give me a completely dissimilar experience.

Re:I really love Fallout. (2, Informative)

KozmoStevnNaut (630146) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596379)

I love and treasure the experiences I've had in Fallouts 1 and 2, and Fallout 3 is definitely shaping up to give me a completely dissimilar experience.

That should have been "and Fallout 3 is definitely shaping up to give me a not completely dissimilar experience."

I really dig this game and have had no problems whatsoever with it. The whole save game issue is overblown and I haven't had a single crash either.

Re:I really love Fallout. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#25596377)

I'm a bit disappointed that you can't kill kids in the game

And you want to be able to kill children in a game why?

Re:I really love Fallout. (4, Interesting)

Broken scope (973885) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596541)

Because in the original games it was a choice with rather extensive consequences.

Morphine changed to Med-X (4, Funny)

sakdoctor (1087155) | more than 4 years ago | (#25595869)

...and all the guns have been replaced with walkie-talkies!

Re:Morphine changed to Med-X (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#25595941)

The Chinese pistol sure feels that way.

Re:Morphine changed to Med-X (3, Informative)

FourthAge (1377519) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596055)

"Major fracture detected. Morphine administered."

I hear that morphine is also used as a painkiller in Half Life 1 and 2! Apparently it allows the player to function normally even when injured. BAN THIS FILTH!

Re:Morphine changed to Med-X (5, Insightful)

Ralish (775196) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596165)

As an Australian, I find this both hilarious and infuriating.

I just spent much of this week playing a game that revolves around surgically amputating the limbs off deformed people using such delightful weapons as plasma cutters. In fact, just before I completed my first play-through, I acquired the achievement for "1000 limbs amputated". The game, of course, has mass amounts of blood and gore.

Yet, a game that references a real-life drug? That crosses the line!!

Honestly, this just shows how out of date and simply stupid the Australian classification boards guidelines are. If you asked the average person what they find more offensive/disturbing, a game that has enormous amounts of blood and gore (and passed through the ratings process without issue), or a game that references a painkiller, I think the answer would be obvious.

Re:Morphine changed to Med-X (1)

MasterOfMagic (151058) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596669)

The painkiller, duh! But it's close between that and the f-bomb!

AMERICA, FRICK YEAH!

How's it different from Fallout 1 and 2? (5, Insightful)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596339)

1. As a Fallout geek, I don't even understand the fuss. The drugs in Fallout 1 and 2 were already called stuff like Buffout, Jet, etc. So, lore-wise, it's a change for the better.

I mean, sure, I could live with a name like "Morphine" too, but I see no reason to run amok about their respecting the canon either. It's Fallout, people. Getting upset that the drugs in the Fallout universe have Fallout names, is a bit as silly as getting upset that a LOTR game has mithril. Sure, you could call it "titanium" instead of "mithril", but it won't actually make the game better. It's the canon for that world, silly.

2. If I were to bitch about a name change there, I'd rather bitch about the weapon names. Fallout always had real weapon names, like the G11 or AK-47 or FN-FAL or whatnot. Now suddenly we have non-descript stuff like "chinese pistol" and "chinese assault-rifle." WTF?

3. In fact, I wonder if the whole "let's name the drugs RL names" thing was just a PR stunt to cause a lot of talk.

I mean, if you look at the whole thing, it is schizophrenic to the extreme. The weapons get changed to non-RL names, the canon be damned, _but_ at the same time they supposedly really wanted to change canon-correct drug names to stuff like "Morphine". It makes no sense. There is no coherent plan in there.

My guess is that they never actually planned to release it with RL drug names, and just pulled a PR coup to get a lot of talk about their game. I.e., that this isn't as much a censorship story, but really a story about PR bullshit.

Re:How's it different from Fallout 1 and 2? (4, Informative)

KozmoStevnNaut (630146) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596469)

Fallout 1 and 2 didn't have real weapon names, everything was "10mm pistol", "assault rifle", "sniper rifle" and so on. The full description of the weapons did have the precise model name for the guns, but the 10mm pistol was a "Colt 6520", the assault rifle was an "AK-112" and the sniper was a "DKS-501", none of which exist in real life.

The Desert Eagle .44 was an exception, as was the Mauser M/96. Fallout 2 did add a few other real-life guns such as the M3 Grease Gun, Tommy Gun, H&K G11, FN FAL and the H&K CAWS. Every other weapon was fictional. And honestly, who cares if the guns have real-life names? I'm rocking a chinese assault rifle that looks suspiciously like a cheaply-manufactured AK-47 and the only difference it makes to me is which starting letter I have to look for in my inventory when I want to equip it.

Vote no on prop 8 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#25595881)

Will somebody please think of the faggots?!

Way to go Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#25595899)

Nothing gets by you guys, a major game release,,,,,,LAST WEEK. I've been playing the game quite a bit, there's nothing in the game that a mature adult, like, I don't know the M rating suggests, can't handle. I don't know if one could shoot a kid or not, but, if you did, that would have a negative impact on your character's karma, so in-game there would be sanctions against you.

Re:Way to go Slashdot (2, Interesting)

ciderVisor (1318765) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596105)

I don't know if one could shoot a kid or not, but, if you did, that would have a negative impact on your character's karma, so in-game there would be sanctions against you.

Perzakly. You can kill Little Sisters in Bioshock, but that decision stays with you right to the end of the game.

That's all great.... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#25595901)

But why are they using paying PC customers as beta testers?

If you look at the forums, there are hundreds of people that can't play because of crashes, installation issues and other nasty problems.

The PC version should have obviously been delayed and tested, now more than 50% (judging by the forums) of people can't even play the game.

This is following the disaster that is Far Cry 2 for the exact same reasons.

Enough with the rushed console ports! When you release something, release it in a working state!

Especially if you expect people to pay for it, and support you in the future.

Re:That's all great.... (1)

Eudial (590661) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596103)

But why are they using paying PC customers as beta testers?

If you look at the forums, there are hundreds of people that can't play because of crashes, installation issues and other nasty problems.

The PC version should have obviously been delayed and tested, now more than 50% (judging by the forums) of people can't even play the game.

I know the parent is borderline troll, but I'll respond anyways.

I think it's the state of affairs today, when it comes to PC gaming. You can't write code that works on all systems, because there are so ludicrously many configurations to consider. And there is only so many systems you can beta test on, especially in this sort of game that really doesn't lend itself well to public beta testing (95% of the fun is the explorations, spoilers leaking would be devastating.) Furthermore, many of the issues seem to stem from misconfigured systems: I had troubles playing that were related to codec problems that the developers clearly could not have predicted.

The tech support forums are also a typically bad place to gather crash statistics on, since people generally won't go there if they don't have troubles with the game.

Re:That's all great.... (1)

Narishma (822073) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596299)

Those hundreds of people on the forums are a minority. The majority of PC users don't have any problems with the game and so don't go complaining about it on forums. You can't make a PC game that doesn't have problems on some kind of computer configuration because you can't test all of the possible configurations.

Bah! (4, Insightful)

Warll (1211492) | more than 4 years ago | (#25595903)

"despite reports of bugs with the save system and occasional lock-ups." Occasional lock-ups my ass! The game must have had next to no QA for many it it crashes as soon as you select new game!* It won't even play if you have some of the most popular codec packs installed!

*Myself included

Re:Bah! (1)

ultranova (717540) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596057)

The game must have had next to no QA for many it it crashes as soon as you select new game!

By any chance, is it doing the DVD check then ? Because that caused Morrowind to crash nearly always. It's a longshot, but it might be forth getting a no-cd patch.

Re:Bah! (1)

Warll (1211492) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596237)

Nah I'm not having any problems with Securom, although others do. So far I've set FFDshow not to be used with the fallout.exe and I have unassociated .mp3 and .ogg with winamp. But it will still not get past half way on that little clock shown when a new game is about to be started.

Re:Bah! (1, Redundant)

Fallingcow (213461) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596623)

Bought mine on Steam, not supposed to have any Securom.

Worked fine for ~2-3 hours, now crashes ever 2 minutes or so, every single time I fire it up. Tried all the solutions I can find, not going to keep looking, because I really shouldn't have to be dicking with this.

I've not seen a PC release from a major publisher have problems this severe in years. I guess it's partially my fault, since Bethesda's known for releasing beta-quality software and fixing it in the 1.1 patch, but for me their poor QA had usually manifested itself in a crash every 1-2 hours, not an entirely unplayable game. Especially since they're just using the now-sort-of-old and well-tested Oblivion engine, I thought this was their best chance at a solid release, but they still managed to fuck it up.

Re:Bah! (4, Informative)

deathy_epl+ccs (896747) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596605)

My friend had frequent lockups and discovered that it was a missing codec. As I understand it, there's threads about this fix on the official forum. It may not fix your problem, but it's well worth looking into.

As for me, I've had little problem overall. I did manage to have one corrupted save, but it was early on and no trouble since. Otherwise, it only crashes when I tab out and back in too fast, and it's not the only game that suffers from that issue.

Regarding the SecuROM, I'm not against all forms of copy protection. It doesn't limit my installation count, and it doesn't install a rootkit. I can live with a disk check.

On the other hand, I did buy the Steam version but that's just because I like not having to keep track of disks or CD keys... which also says I'm cool with auth checks.

Honestly, my entire issue with SecuROM (especially from EA) is as described above... Install limits sound like an attempt to get more money out of the customer, and rootkits are just dangerous - especially when Sony writes them.

Washington, DC (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#25595911)

"The people of our city do not need a daily reminder that Washington is a prime target for an attack," wrote Joseph Anzalone in a letter to the editor of the Post which was noticed by GamePolitics. "We do not need a daily reminder of what our worst fears look like," added Anzalone. "Since any First Amendment objection would be irrelevant (the ads do not present a true viewpoint or political message and would therefore not be protected), there is no reason for these ads to be part of our daily panorama," he continued. "The ads should be removed, and the appropriate office at Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority should be directed to exercise better judgment regarding what can be displayed in our transportation system," concluded the concerned citizen.

As a resident of the Washington DC metropilitan area, I fully support a multiple multimegaton nuclear apocalypse targeting the city.

Re:Washington, DC (3, Interesting)

Dachannien (617929) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596031)

Sadly, the similarities between the Washington DC area and Fallout 3's representation of it don't go much beyond those landmarks and a few borrowed community names (Falls Church, etc.). DC area residents hoping to go where their house was 269 years ago will be disappointed, because the locations of various towns, bridges, rivers, etc., are nowhere near their present-day locations. One might have thought that the decision for a DC-area company to produce content set in the DC area would have resulted in a world a bit truer to the real thing than what they actually came up with.

On the plus side, at least some of the Metro stations actually do look a bit like the real thing.

Re:Washington, DC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#25596137)

Of course, DC is a little big to put in the game street by street.

And with (from memory) 69 years of construction work and an alternate history to boot, there's bound to be a few differences ;)

ads pulled? (5, Informative)

nemoest (69043) | more than 4 years ago | (#25595945)

Whoa whoa whoa, who said the ads were pulled? I was just in Metro Center yesterday and I can assure you, the Red line platform is still decked out with "Vault Life" and pictures of the Capitol and Washington Monument in apocalyptic splendor.

Even the article quoted only references a letter to the editor saying the ads should be pulled, nothing says they were.

I agree there is some controversy, but lets not go too far.

Your points interfere with the story so STFU (4, Funny)

Kohath (38547) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596023)

You don't understand journalism at all do you?

It's a better story if the ads are censored. So they are. The fact that all the ads still appear in the same places with the same content is just a distraction.

Re:Your points interfere with the story so STFU (5, Funny)

rbergstrom (819587) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596573)

Exactly. As the hitchhiker's guide says, if there's any discrepancy between the guide and reality, reality has it wrong.

Re:ads pulled? (1)

Lunatrik (1136121) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596409)

They weren't referring to the pictures - they had video ads apparently, and those were pulled (as I understand it).

Re:ads pulled? (1)

IceCreamGuy (904648) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596607)

they had video ads apparently, and those were pulled (as I understand it).

Videos... in Metro Center? What, on the little time-till-next train LED screens? I think that you are misunderstanding something.

Red line platform is still decked out with "Vault Life"

"Decked out" indeed. It was shocking, the first time I was in there with the ads, when I finally realized that every single ad in the entire station was for Fallout 3, in addition to the abnormal banners they had hung against some walls.

My first "Fallout 3 Moment" (5, Funny)

Tofof (199751) | more than 4 years ago | (#25595957)

Quick background: in the game, there are several ways to restore hp (sleeping, eating, etc). Most food and drink is, however, contaminated, and will have a tooltip reading something like "+10 hp | +3 rads" indicating that while it will restore hp, it will also slightly irradiate you.

So, I'm rummaging through a restroom in the first shanty-town outside the safety of my vault. I notice the urinals can be used, and seem to restore health. My thought is "ok, I suppose that makes sense, holding it forever would certainly cause eventual health problems.."

Needing some hp, I hit use. The camera drops halfway to the ground as if my character was crouching. There's a slurping sound. I'm baffled as to what's happening until my horrified fiancee, watching beside me, declares, "Oh my god, you just drank from a urinal."

There's more than one way to solve every puzzle in Fallout 3. Apparently, drinking from ... unorthodox sources is one such solution to basic nutrition.

Re:My first "Fallout 3 Moment" (1)

ceoyoyo (59147) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596239)

Hey, running water. Provided the pipes still work, of course. There's a reason pets like to drink from the toilet instead of that bowl you filled up... uh... yesterday?

Re:My first "Fallout 3 Moment" (4, Funny)

SlowMovingTarget (550823) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596599)

Pets like to drink from the toilet because the water is cold, not because it is fresh. At least... that's why I do it.

Re:My first "Fallout 3 Moment" (-1, Flamebait)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596603)

dogs like to eat shit. People, not so much (not counting you, shit eating troll)

Re:My first "Fallout 3 Moment" (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596391)

You could do the same thing in Duke Nukem 3d. You just had to kick the fixture first.

Re:My first "Fallout 3 Moment" (1)

philspear (1142299) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596447)

Uh... did it give you any radiation though?

Re:My first "Fallout 3 Moment" (1)

Fallingcow (213461) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596645)

I did the exact same thing.

"oh, weird, you can piss in this one. I guess I'll go ahead and try it."

"uh, wait, why am I looking in to the toilet bowl?"

"heh, I didn't notice that, why does it give me any rads for taking a pi... OH. Oh, wow. Gross."

Some people. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#25595977)

"We do not need a daily reminder of what our worst fears look like," added Anzalone. "Since any First Amendment objection would be irrelevant (the ads do not present a true viewpoint or political message and would therefore not be protected), there is no reason for these ads to be part of our daily panorama," he continued.

Sounds like a lawyer or politician.

"The ads should be removed, and the appropriate office at Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority should be directed to exercise better judgment regarding what can be displayed in our transportation system," concluded the concerned citizen.

Yeah, right. That's just one person's opinion.

Some people just have too much time on their hands and just like to bitch. Well, it is DC and there's a bunch of Federal workers, that explains the people with too much free time on their hands.

I'm sure they were the first ones to bitch when Janet Jackson's nipple was shown on TV. Oh, the horror!

Gosh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#25595991)

Ads for the game in Washington DC's subway system were pulled after they upset some touchy travelers over the depiction of post-apocalyptic Washington landmarks

Dick heads

Earlier this year, the game was banned in Australia for its in-game use of morphine, causing the drug's name to be changed to Med-X.

Well, we know what Australia is like [slashdot.org] about censoring free speech. And Med-X, why is it not called 'Jet'?

the design decision to disallow the killing of children in the game.

This is going to destroy the fun of re-enacting dead baby jokes. Also, killing children in games stops me wanting to throttle the little, screaming brats in real life. If I murder a child in the near-future I will blame it upon this design decision, just to piss off all those thinkofthechildren-ites.

Reviews for the game have been overwhelmingly positive so far

But does it run on Linux (under Wine)? I ain't buying it if it don't run under Linux. Windows is too bloated to run games correctly these days, using a cut-down Linux desktop like Fluxbox is much better.

Re:Gosh (1)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596117)

Jet (also included) and Med-X are two distinct drugs.

Re:Gosh (1)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596625)

(Jet is a canister of Brahmin shit fumes).

What the hell? (4, Insightful)

copponex (13876) | more than 4 years ago | (#25595997)

Oh no! Virtual children in video games are dying! There are fake people taking fake drugs in a fake reality! Let's commence with worldwide outrage!

The Washington Post - isn't that the same newspaper that supported the Iraq war, which has killed and displaced tens of thousand of real children, and is still forcing young girls to sell their bodies so their families can eat?

I swear to God. The entire world lives in a fantasy land of anecdotes and paranoia. How about some news stories about things that actually matter, especially the ones that exist in reality...

(not directed at video game media, but the Post? Christ almighty)

Re:What the hell? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#25596493)

"The Washington Post - isn't that the same newspaper that supported the Iraq war, which has killed and displaced tens of thousand of real children, and is still forcing young girls to sell their bodies so their families can eat?"

Ah yes, but those are brown children and not part of the dominion.

Re:What the hell? (1)

mikael_j (106439) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596549)

No, but they are Bajoran war orphans!

/Mikael

Fucking 'think of the kids' thinking... (5, Insightful)

Kabuthunk (972557) | more than 4 years ago | (#25595999)

Oh yeah, that makes PERFECT sense. You can kill ANY other living creature in the game, EXCEPT kids.

ESRB: Ohhh, you can't release a game that shows killing kids. After all, if someone sees it done in a game, SURELY that must mean that they will follow up with going on a child-slaughtering rampage through the countryside.

Give me a fucking break! If I decide I want to play the game by killing every last person and become the sole survivor, with this new rule, I get to be the sole adult survivor... but of course surrounded by CHILDREN! Oh yeah, that's not FAR creepier than decimating everything.

It's an adult game for adults! If parents do their jobs, then kids won't SEE in-game kids getting killed. Or anyone getting killed.

And TFA's comments about their decision for that. What does killing children add? Oh, I don't know... freedom to do whatever I want in an imaginary universe in which death, decay, and destruction are among the MAIN SUBJECTS!

Re:Fucking 'think of the kids' thinking... (5, Funny)

The_Angry_Canadian (1156097) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596041)

Are you suggesting that parents should take care of their childrens ? I mean, how would I play Fallout then ?

Re:Fucking 'think of the kids' thinking... (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596127)

They have to develop a version of the game where you can't kill kids regardless for a EU-localized release. FO1 and FO2's European releases wouldn't let you kill kids.

And do you really need to kill kids to enjoy a game?

Re:Fucking 'think of the kids' thinking... (1, Interesting)

Toll_Free (1295136) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596231)

No, he doesn't.

He NEEDS a reason to bitch. Without a reason, you're only left with a bitch.

Sad, but true.

--Toll_Free

Re:Fucking 'think of the kids' thinking... (1)

Kabuthunk (972557) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596363)

No, I don't need to kill kids to enjoy a game. However, one could argue the same by taking away pretty much any other singular option and say "You don't need to do that to enjoy the game.

Having the option to do so however is nice, as opposed to the option being arbitrarily removed because we need to 'think of the children'.

Re:Fucking 'think of the kids' thinking... (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596463)

Bethesda games are known for including tons and tons of option for side-quests, world exploration and dynamic gameplay. It isn't particularly fair to accuse Bethesda of limiting gameplay just because you can't kill kids. Next are we going to complain that you can't poop in game?

Next, I don't think that Bethesda did it from a moral standpoint so much as a financial standpoint. They don't want to be sued or targeted. They pushed a dark, gory game to the limits they felt they could get away with.

Re:Fucking 'think of the kids' thinking... (2, Funny)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596639)

Actually, I wanted to complain about that. Why can't I poop on a hooker? I'd pay extra caps for that.

Re:Fucking 'think of the kids' thinking... (1)

philspear (1142299) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596527)

ESRB: Ohhh, you can't release a game that shows killing kids. After all, if someone sees it done in a game, SURELY that must mean that they will follow up with going on a child-slaughtering rampage through the countryside.

To their credit, the ESRB WAS going to do a controlled experiment where they had 50 teens playing "baby killer 5" and 50 playing "diaper changer 2" followed by putting the teens in a daycare environment and observing any reduction in the number of babies, but some government regulations got in the way, so they decided to avoid the whole problem.

I joke, and of course it's no reason to censor, but let's not act as if it's impossible that games can influence people's behavior. I mean, teenagers ARE idiots, so it's not out of the realm of possibilty that one dumbass would kill a kid and then try to blame it on games. Our arguments should stay based on "Just because the weakest link might not be able to control themselves is no reason to censor what I can see."

It's also a rather weak argument to say "Why take out the most offensive examples of something in a game when the rest of the game is about it." The moral nannies would say "Let's just get rid of the whole game then."

Morphine in Farcry 2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#25596009)

You spend half your in Farcry 2 injecting morphine into your wrist!

Re:Morphine in Farcry 2 (1)

philspear (1142299) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596543)

There is a game where half of the game is putting a needle into your wrist? Sounds almost as fun as "Applying bandages to papercuts 5."

What the crap?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#25596027)

Reviews for the game have been overwhelmingly positive so far, despite reports of bugs with the save system and occasional lock-ups.

Since when did we, as game consumers, start giving software development companies a pass for releasing buggy software? Let me car analogy it for you guys:

Reviews for the car have been overwhelmingly positive so far, despite reports of bugs with the braking system and occasional engine lock-ups.

Sure, a failing game won't put your life at risk, but problems with the saved game system? Have saved game systems fundementally changed over the last two decades?

a. Open File
b. Store Data
c. Close File

And as far as random crashes, If it's hardware related... I can give them a pass. If it's simply poor programming, I think it is inexcusable.

Re:What the crap?! (1, Insightful)

wolfponddelta (922904) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596139)

Since when did we, as game consumers, start giving software development companies a pass for releasing buggy software?

Easy Answer: the first time you ever booted up a windows machine to play a game on.

Re:What the crap?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#25596213)

I read the article about the save game complaint. It sums up to "when you beat the game, it kicks you back to the title screen, so save before you enter the last area if you want to keep playing."

Doesn't seem like a save game flaw to me, just a design decision in the game that has nothing to do with the saves.

Re:What the crap?! (2, Informative)

c-reus (852386) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596465)

According to posts in Bethesda forums (see http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showforum=36 [bethsoft.com] ), some people have got their game not to crash by tinkering with ffdshow settings, installing codec packs, (un)installing seemingly random programs. Some people have reported the game not working when a not-so-common sound card is installed.

Just for reference, the game doesn't work in Wine either. See
http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15839 [winehq.org]

Cool game (2, Insightful)

popmaker (570147) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596039)

Reading the summary, the only thing I kept thinking the whole time was "man, this game is AWESOME!"

All this controversy is just going to make the game more exciting, but people seemingly fail to realize that, time after time.

I just hope my computer can handle it.

SecuROM? Fail. (3, Insightful)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596049)

On the DRM front, the game does come with SecuROM, but Bethesda says it's only used for a disc check.

On the raping front, the game does come with a rusty pipe, but Bethesda says it's only going to be used to beat you repeatedly.

What, I'm supposed to feel glad they weren't also going to ram it up my ass?

You seem to be missing the point. "Only a disc check" still means I'm going to be cracking it as soon as it's out of the box, so I don't have to go find a fucking CD every time I want to play the game.

And if I have to crack a game to play it, I won't buy it. Treat me like a criminal, fine, I'll be one. Pirate bay it is...

Re:SecuROM? Fail. (1)

77Punker (673758) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596107)

Well, you could get the Xbox version instead of whining about the PC version and pretending that it's an excuse for not paying for the game.

Re:SecuROM? Fail. (0)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596177)

Well, you could get the Xbox version

First: I don't have an Xbox.

Second: Same problem. What, you think I can just burn a backup copy and expect it to work? Why should I even need a disc, when hard drives are so big these days?

Third: I have a laptop. Where can I get a portable version of an Xbox?

Re:SecuROM? Fail. (5, Insightful)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596287)

Stop pretending like you are justified for piracy. You're aren't. Piracy is a person decision. Man up and just say you want to steal the game. Don't claim that you are forced to steal it. You could buy an XBox 360 or a PS3.

As for a portable XBox 360 - http://benheck.com/ [benheck.com]

Re:SecuROM? Fail. (1)

c-reus (852386) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596509)

IMHO the only way to be sure to not get stuck with DRM problems is to buy the game, never open the package and then download a pirated version of it (obviously, pirated versions do not include any DRM).

Beware, though, doing this will mean violating DMCA. IANAL, if anyone can quote the exact section of DMCA, you're welcome to do so.

Re:SecuROM? Fail. (1, Insightful)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596629)

Using a pirated copy involves circumventing copyright protection, which violates the DMCA. That being said, I still use no-cd cracks for games I purchase. I choose not to respect the DMCA, but I also believe in supporting game developers financially so they continue to make PC games.

People like SanityInAnarchy bitch about what they want, but if you never support things financially, then no one cares. I watched major PC game development houses fold one after the other, and suddenly I realized that if I want these products to continue, then I need to purchase them.

Re:SecuROM? Fail. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#25596283)

Why should he? The Xbox version is not moddable. The reviews that didn't fall for the hype suggest that there is quite some work to be done until it resembles anything like Fallout (such as awkward dialogue, level scaling, etc).

Re:SecuROM? Fail. (5, Informative)

theM_xl (760570) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596161)

Funny thing. The SecuRom is only on the launcher. You can instead use the setup.exe on the DVD, which is clean, to install the game. Then use Fallout3.exe instead of FalloutLauncher.exe to run the game. You don't even need to have the disc in the drive that way.

Bethesda hasn't been evil so much as plain silly on this one...

Re:SecuROM? Fail. (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596199)

Hmm... Interesting. The game just moved from "no way in hell" to "maybe."

But I shouldn't have to do this.

Re:SecuROM? Fail. (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596295)

Is there a single new AAA game on the market today shipping without any DRM? There are small titles without DRM, but this sounds like far less DRM than most major titles shipping right now.

Re:SecuROM? Fail. (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#25596335)

Funny thing. The SecuRom is only on the launcher. You can instead use the setup.exe on the DVD, which is clean, to install the game. Then use Fallout3.exe instead of FalloutLauncher.exe to run the game. You don't even need to have the disc in the drive that way.

Bethesda hasn't been evil so much as plain silly on this one...

1) Publisher/retailer/other-asshats in the chain demand ShitROM.
2) Developer puts in a DVD and says "Sure, all you marketing morons who have autorun enabled, there's your ShitROM! See, it's right there in the launcher!"
3) (while whispering under its breath "and for those of you who just run the setup.exe and the real game executable, you're just fine")

DRM: It only inconveniences morons, because it only appears on systems administered by morons. The corollary, however, is that it becomes very easy to convince morons (like the ones in marketing, or whoever else in the organization is responsible for the cramming of ShitROM onto games) that the DRM is actually installed in the first place.

Seriously, if what you said about the launcher-vs-installer is true, someone at Bethesda's not being silly, they're being brilliant.

Re:SecuROM? Fail. (1)

Renraku (518261) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596397)

I bet they were forced to have SecuROM but some saintly developer put in a way to bypass it. You all have to remember, plenty of developers read Slashdot. Plenty of them DO NOT WANT tripe like SecuROM or Starforce to be inserted into their wonderful games, but that some misguided person in management or legal demands that it happen.

Even if it causes people to HATE the game or be totally unable to run it, that's the law of the land.

If they ever catch who did it, they'll be fired or possibly have their pants sued off, though.

Re:SecuROM? Fail. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#25596501)

Could just be a case of the Bethesda devs including SecuROM to keep the suits happy. There just happens to be a convenient method of ignoring said protection *ahem*

Re:SecuROM? Fail. (1)

aztektum (170569) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596551)

Hm, this pleases me. I may have to go buy this now. I was holding off until I had better clarification of their DRM scam... er scheme.

Re:SecuROM? Fail. (-1, Flamebait)

SensitiveMale (155605) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596327)

And if I have to crack a game to play it, I won't buy it. Treat me like a criminal, fine, I'll be one. Pirate bay it is...

So if someone sitting in a car sees you walking along the street and locks their door, does that mean you'll carjack them?

Re:SecuROM? Fail. (5, Funny)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596439)

So if someone sitting in a car sees you walking along the street and locks their door, does that mean you'll carjack them?

No. It means he'll go to his garage and construct an exact duplicate of that person's car.

Re:SecuROM? Fail. (1)

linzeal (197905) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596361)

I pre-ordered the game and finished it as a puritan goody-goody in about 10 hours of play time. During that time the game crashed approximately 10 times, with the the auto-save feature it was a minor annoyance but it got me thinking about the crack and rest of your line of thinking as well. So last night I cracked the game and left it running all night long, it was crashing every hour or so and low and behold it has not crashed yet. Now I am going to kill every living thing in the game, ttfn.

I do think it is messed up you can't kill children in the game unless you nuke their entire town. I miss the 'child killer' status of the last Fallout games, didn't they send out hunting parties to kill you, shot at you on site and refuse to talk to you? If you nuke an entire town none of that happens in this game.

Re:SecuROM? Fail. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#25596375)

so, just download it on steam and stop whining, and stealing.

Some people just need any excuse...

Re:SecuROM? Fail. (0)

philspear (1142299) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596647)

I know I might be in the minority here, but I don't think DRM is a fundamentally flawed idea. Implemented poorly, yes obviously, but trying to limit piracy of a game you spent years making does not strike me as an evil or selfish notion at it's core. It seems to me that at least SOME people are merely using the problems DRM has had as an excuse to rationalize stealing the game.

This is a prime example. It may be that the venerable "sanityinanarchy" misread the article, and thought the DRM was going to be something it's not, but the summary even was clear that the DRM was not intrusive. I get the sense that he read "DRM" and thought "there's my reason."

And you know, it's none of my buisness whether he gets it for free or not, I'm of course not convinced it's a 1:1 thing that piracy = lost money. But this does weaken the argument when we gamers say "Hey EA, stop putting REAL annoying DRM in your games." We're not Robin Hood here, if you have a legitimate beef with an implementation of DRM, get a boycott together.

Pirating the game is not an act of civil disobedience, and DRM should not be an excuse to steal a game you were going to steal anyway.

Save system bug? (1)

BMonger (68213) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596093)

How is that a bug with the save system? A bug to me is something such as deleting your saves... this "bug" is just that if you save at a certain point near the end of the game you can no longer explore the open areas in the game from that particular save as you're locked into that room. That's not really a bug...

No mod tools (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596135)

I'm just not buying this until mod tools are released.

Why the censorship ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#25596141)

What I fail to understand is why Bethesda felt the need to censor their game. They're not aiming for a teen or pre-teen demographic, this game is squarely targeted at a mature audience. They should do whatever the hell they want. It's not that I have a burning desire to kill children (ok, actually I do), but having an artificial restriction in an otherwise free-for-all death-fest is all sorts of wrong, especially considering Fallout 1 and 2 had no such limitations.

I find it absolutely pathetic that these supposed artists and entertainers have absolutely no backbone. To hell with the ESRB! I would proudly stamp on the game's box: "This game is strictly for mature and somewhat jaded audiences" and end it right there. There's my rating. If some dumb passive-aggressive NIMBY feminazi buys it for her developmentally-challenged teenager and he grows up to become President of the USA, bitch better not blame me!

Why pre-order...? (0, Offtopic)

keith_nt4 (612247) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596197)

Well I suppose it's off-topic but I'm still a little angry about it: I put down $5 at a video game store in EARLY OCTOBER for the PC version of Fallout 3. The guy called it a "pre-order". The term suggests I'm "ordering it" BEFORE it is released. As in I'll have a copy when I come in to pick it up. Isn't that the point? So I go in on the 31st to pick it up and they say it's sold out...what is that like four days? Nobody said anything about getting it within four days. So I'm trying to figure out what the point of pre-ordering is if you don't actually get a copy. What did I pay for?! I think I'll stop going to that particular place for anything game-related. Gamecrazy.

Re:Why pre-order...? (1)

Southpaw018 (793465) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596263)

You could always grab it on Steam. It was 10% off pre-release. Buy it early, download it overnight a night or two if you're on a slow connection, and play it at 12:01 AM release day without leaving your house.

Re:Why pre-order...? (1)

Mascot (120795) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596485)

You could always grab it on Steam. It was 10% off pre-release. Buy it early, download it overnight a night or two if you're on a slow connection, and play it at 12:01 AM release day without leaving your house.

Don't spread false information. Fallout 3 did not have a pre-order discount, and it did not pre-load.

Re:Why pre-order...? (1)

The Evil Couch (621105) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596635)

No, that's pretty standard for all retail game stores. If you don't come within the first two days a game is released, they're going to assume that you're flaking out and sell your copy to someone else. If you can't get there that early, you can call them and ask them to hold it longer.

DC Metro (subway) ads (0, Redundant)

Southpaw018 (793465) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596225)

Those ads weren't pulled, at least as far as I'm aware. They were still plastered all over Metro Center (the central stop, and the busiest stop, in the system) as of Friday evening on the way home from work.

Re:DC Metro (subway) ads (0, Redundant)

BMonger (68213) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596271)

Yeah. Nothing in the linked article or the 2 articles it links to says the ads were pulled. There was just some guy that wrote a letter to the editor saying he didn't like them and he thought they should be pulled. Way to go editors!

Fallout 3 launches amidst contrived controversy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#25596257)

to promote publicity.

frequent crashes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#25596305)

despite reports of bugs with the save system and occasional lock-ups.

More like frequent crashes to the desktop, to an extent where the game is essentially unplayable, and censorship on the Bethesda forums.

What a shame (1)

RetardsForRonPaul (1175873) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596381)

As an impressionable teenager, I loved the gritty reality of Fallout 2. I was always amazed at what they were able to sneak under the radar.

It's a blessing and a curse: as gaming has become mainstream the production values and profits have increased, but the increased scrutiny leads to this nonsense. It's a fucking game people! Get over it!

The bigger controversy (5, Informative)

Mascot (120795) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596453)

should be, why didn't they finish the game?

For an RPG it has huge immersion breaking holes in it. You can shoot someone's bodyguard right in front of their eyes, strip their store of everything not nailed down, and they'll still greet you with "Oh, hi, you're the new guy! So nice to meet you!" less than a second later.

Save a guy's life? He'll be eternally grateful during the scripted conversation afterwards. Talk to him again immediately after the event ends and he might go "Speak punk, before I put a bullet in you".

It's almost as if Bethesda never made one of these games before. Or never thought of a concept like a state machine for the conversation/reaction trees. I find it quite baffling.

This thing is begging for an enhanced edition like Witcher got. I bet it won't get it though :(

Re:The bigger controversy (1)

ZosX (517789) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596653)

Nobody ever played Bethesda's games for the NPCs. Better dialogue has been around since...what...Ultima VI? The sandbox is what makes the games interesting.

Anonymous Coward (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#25596563)

The game "Prey" for 360 made you kill children to advance.

They were ghosts though but you still were shooting at kids.

What a moron. (0)

The Breeze (140484) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596595)

TFA says,

"We do not need a daily reminder of what our worst fears look like," added Anzalone.

Uh, yes, we do. Maybe then people would realize what is at stake when they vote, instead of living in their insulated little world where their greatest concern is what time "Heroes" in on.

Of course, if a person is already riding the DC metro system, I guess they have some reason to already be having PTSD.

Re:What a moron. (1)

Totenglocke (1291680) | more than 4 years ago | (#25596651)

Have you learned nothing from Heroes? Peter will ALWAYS save the day!
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