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Boycott Novell Protesters Manhandled In India

kdawson posted more than 5 years ago | from the opposite-of-freedom dept.

Novell 360

James Mathew writes "This is an interesting story from Kerala, India, where the ruling Communist Party organized a national conference in its efforts to hijack the Free Software Movement, which has enviable roots in the state. They got Novell to sponsor it. On the second day of the conference, a few free software activists who displayed posters against Novell were manhandled by the organizers and police — typical of what is expected from them. Most of the snaps taken during the scuffle were forcefully deleted by the organizers, after seizing the protesters' mobile phones. Still they couldn't delete all. Here is another blow-by-blow account."

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Anonymous Coward (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25781987)

T.I.A.

This is India.

Re:Anonymous Coward (1)

narcberry (1328009) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782019)

They weren't shot or run over with tanks. Is that what this is about?

Re:Anonymous Coward (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782477)

Same shit, different country [enterprisecorruption.com] (slightly different reason too)

I'm sure the Banks Will Offer Better Advice As...

They Hand Out South Korean Military Enlistment Forms

Re:Anonymous Coward (3, Interesting)

bain_online (580036) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782537)

T.I.A.

This is India.

Hey common it would happen anywhere in the world.
Try spreading anti-microsoft pamphlets in a microsoft conference and you will be escorted out by a security team. And will be "manhandled" if you refuse to.
None of the photos show any kind of unnecessary violence. Unless those photos were deleted as said in TFA.

What does obama have in common (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25781991)

with the average black man on the street ?

They both want change!

Re:What does obama have in common (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782317)

also, they were raised by their mother after daddy left for some other ass.

Communist software (5, Funny)

kandela (835710) | more than 5 years ago | (#25781995)

Why am I not surprised that the makers of Groupwise are communist sympathisers.

Open source violence (0, Troll)

Simonetta (207550) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782353)

This incident does bring up the question of what we will do when a government, NGO, or criminal group like the Mafia decides that Open Source software belongs to them and that people must pay a fee to them for using it. This situation will undoubtedly arise in places (like third world countries and minority communities in the EU, UK, and USA) where violence has always been and continues to be the way that the local leaders govern community activities.

    When a corporation tried to muscle its way into open source 'ownership' several years ago by claiming that they owned Linux because some other corporation tricked them into buying UNIX, we were able to organize, fight, and destroy them using the American court system. Which is a long, expensive, tedious, but not violent process. Court room tactics don't often work in places where decision-by-violence is the normal way of handling disputes. Yet these places are usually where open source software is most attractive because violence-based economies don't generate enough wealth to afford wide-spread use of paid proprietary software.

    Maybe we should just encourage people in violence-based parts of the world (like India, Russia, and the minority communities of the USA) to use pirated Microsoft and other proprietary software. That will keep Microsoft busy and keep us from having to deal with violent people who would direct their violence against us in order to keep 'their' software working.

    Maybe the open-source community needs to become a little more realistic and a little less altruistic. And please don't tell me that I'm a racist or that I don't understand your open-source vision. The open-source vision only works in places where people aren't violent by nature.

Re:Communist software (1)

Xiroth (917768) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782503)

OK, this is a WTF moment. Since when is the Indian National Congress [wikipedia.org] a communist party? I mean, sure, they could be described as centre-left, but probably less to the left than most major northern European parties, and you don't hear them being called communist parties.

Re:Communist software (1)

Xiroth (917768) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782549)

Cheh, never mind. They're talking about the state government. My mistake.

Sadly (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25781997)

The pictures don't show anything and any people quoted would have vested interests.

Alternative Viewpoint (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782009)

Free Software activists start a protest on private property, are asked to leave by owners/organisers and forgo negotiation, instead opting for point-blank refusal. This leads to a confrontation because both of both parties being excessively stubborn.

Sounds like 50/50 blame split to me.

Re:Alternative Viewpoint (1)

Dreen (1349993) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782039)

Thats not the point. There shouldnt be any freedom of speech limiting withing groups which both support open and free software. I know the organizers of the event didnt probably care about the free as in freedom idea so much, but there was absolutely no reason to use force. But again, this is India.

Re:Alternative Viewpoint (4, Insightful)

speedtux (1307149) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782201)

There shouldnt be any freedom of speech limiting withing groups which both support open and free software.

Why not? Open source and free software events have rules and agendas like any other meeting. And participants have limited time to get the job done they came for.

If participants or protestors won't shut up and keep disrupting the event, they should get kicked out by security. It doesn't matter who it is or what message they are pushing, and it doesn't matter whether it's in the US or India.

Re:Alternative Viewpoint (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782425)

Open source and free software events have rules and agendas like any other meeting.

Let's say this was a Open Source and Free Software meeting and all they promoted was proprietary software. Would protesting that be fair?

That's exactly what they're doing according to Groklaw and even Novell themselves ,

Novell's SEC filing reads: "If the final version of GPLv3 contains terms or conditions that interfere with our agreement with Microsoft or our ability to distribute GPLv3 code, Microsoft may cease to distribute Suse Linux coupons in order to avoid the extension of its patent covenants to a broader range of GPLv3 software recipients,"

Remember that Novell helped Microsoft get OOXML approved and Novell forked OpenOffice.org as soon as it moved to GPLv3.

Of course don't forget that Novell make their own version of Microsoft's SilverLight but they call it Moonlight. It's free to download but you have to download it from Novell to get patent indemnity... it exploits loopholes in GPLv2 in order to remove open source rights. To quote Miguel...

During the discussion, de Icaza explained that while anyone who downloaded Moonlight from Novell was protected by the company's licensing of Silverlight codecs from Microsoft through the company's own cross-licensing agreement. Mike Schroepfer, vice president of engineering from Mozilla, then raised the question that if he downloads and then distributes the code for Moonlight, would he get the patent protection? "There is a patent covenant for anyone that downloads [Moonlight] from Novell," answered de Icaza, who then acknowledged that "as to extending the patents to third parties -- you have to talk to Microsoft."

So this is what Novell want to make Open Source. These protesters stood up for the spirit and the letter of the GPL. Good on them!

Re:Alternative Viewpoint (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782635)

If participants or protestors won't shut up and keep disrupting the event, they should get kicked out by security.

Why don't you read what actually happened instead of making up your own version and commenting about it?

From what I can tell, all the protestors did was put up flyers and banners. The Novell reps then told the organizers that the organizers would not be getting their sponsor money if the banners and flyers remained up. The organizers then demanded that the protestors take them down; the protestors refused. The organizers then decided to call the cops and forcibly remove the protestors, the banners, and any visual documentation of their actions.

Re:Alternative Viewpoint (1)

nonzen (1408765) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782289)

Errm, this happened in the campus of a publicly funded university.

Re:Alternative Viewpoint (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782423)

There is no private property in Kerala. Its all state owned, comrade.

My gf was just there it they're like a bunch of keystone cops tripping over themselves with excuses on why "the computers are not working today." Like Castro, the old USSR, and China, they love to control information and have no respect for anything coming close to the enlightenment thinking that dominates the west. Individual rights? Hahaha. Its the collective that matters to them.

Toss in the "Micronovell" protesters and you have no winners in this scenario. Just a bunch of losers.

Re:Alternative Viewpoint (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782641)

In India University Campuses are not private property. The event I believe was held in the Cochin University of Science and Technology where some of the campaigners studied.

Boycott Boycott Novell (5, Insightful)

PixelSlut (620954) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782013)

Sorry, but the Boycott Novell people are complete retards to begin with. To my knowledge they don't actually produce anything for the open source community, but they sit around and bitch and whine about Novell who employs all kinds of open source hackers; including kernel hackers, GTK and GNOME hackers, window manager hackers, Mono hackers, accessibility hackers, open source artists, and more. Sorry if I have very little sympathy for the situation. It's not that I think anyone should be 'manhandled' under any situation, but these guys are the most inconsiderate members of the "open source community" and it's hard for me to really take most things they say very seriously.

Re:Boycott Boycott Novell (4, Funny)

CRCulver (715279) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782029)

...Mono hackers...

That's a reason to lead a campaign against Novell in itself.

Re:Boycott Boycott Novell (3, Insightful)

PixelSlut (620954) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782045)

That's the most retarded fucking thing in the world. If you don't like Mono, just don't fucking use it. The point is, these guys aren't actually contributing anything. Instead they just sit around and criticize fucking awesome hackers. Mono is really fantastic software. If you don't like it, just don't use it.

Re:Boycott Boycott Novell (4, Funny)

siddesu (698447) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782251)

Man, you say "fuck" a lot. You're Sean Connery's distant relative or something?

Re:Boycott Boycott Novell (0)

at_slashdot (674436) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782309)

Windows is really fantastic software, if you don't like it, just don't use it -- just trying to replicate your thought process...

The point is that somebody can boycott and criticize something without contributing anything to the product,I haven't contributed anything to Windows but I can still boycott it and bitch about it. Same for Mono or Novell.

Re:Boycott Boycott Novell (3, Insightful)

bug1 (96678) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782329)

That's the most retarded fucking thing in the world. If you don't like Mono, just don't fucking use it.

He criticized a piece of software, your carrying on like he insulted your god(s), Get a grip...

Re:Boycott Boycott Novell (-1, Troll)

Khyber (864651) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782379)

No, the most retarded fucking thing in the world is what dropped out of Sarah Palin.

Sorry, I had to go there to break the tension.

How many companies do you boycott that you don't do a fucking thing for? I notice you're quick to jump on someone else but REAL SLOW to judge yourself.

Bet 10:1 odds your comment history would be VERY TELLING.

Re:Boycott Boycott Novell (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782509)

That's the most retarded fucking thing in the world. If you don't like Mono, just don't fucking use it. The point is, these guys aren't actually contributing anything. Instead they just sit around and criticize fucking awesome hackers. Mono is really fantastic software. If you don't like it, just don't use it.

Explaining that Mono and MoonLight continues to be a non-OSS patent-infringing platform that's permitted to stay alive only while Microsoft continue their patent deal with Novell is worthy criticism and these 'Boycott Novell' people are contributing t to that public understanding.

Boycotting Novell makes sense when you figure out the legalese.

Novell's distro comes with Microsoft patent indemnity over all software, even the software that Microsoft and Novell didn't write. This SCO-like accusation that you need their patent indemnity to even use the software is something that Novell are going along with because fear sells.

Novell should be considered like SCO.

by that reasoning (4, Insightful)

speedtux (1307149) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782237)

By that reasoning, you should boycott anything Linus or the BSD community produce: when those projects started, their kernels and tools were under considerable legal uncertainty. AT&T and other vendors claimed lots of copyrights and patents. You also shouldn't use Java because Sun has numerous patents on Java.

Open source has always been pushing the limits on patents, copyrights, and cloning, and open source has always been rubbing powerful vendors the wrong way. If anything, the legal situation surrounding Mono is better than it was for Linux or Java: with Mono, we have a public commitment from Microsoft that the core is free (the core that FOSS Mono software actually uses), and nobody has been able to identify patents that read on the core language, libraries, or runtime.

The only reason people get pushed out of shape about Mono is because of the Microsoft connection. But let me tell you: the original UNIX overlords were just as nasty and monopolistic and people still adopted Linux and made it a success.

Re:by that reasoning (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782441)

You also shouldn't use Java because Sun has numerous patents on Java.

You shouldn't use Java because Sun has licensed numerous patents on Java. As far as I know, the terms of those licensing agreements have never been disclosed. It appears that the right to use those patents extends to people using Sun's Java, but really, who knows.

At least with Microsoft the legal status of Mono is known. Plus Microsoft isn't in imminent danger of having their assets liquidated to the highest bidder unlike a certain company which recently laid of 6,000 employees and is now relying on selling advertising in open source software for their financial well-being...

Re:Boycott Boycott Novell (1)

powerspike (729889) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782417)

what, giving people more options to move away from microsoft?

Re:Boycott Boycott Novell (2, Informative)

CarbonMonoxide (1210306) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782037)

In this particular case though , the people who protested seems to be among the most active FOSS hackers in Kerala...

Re:Boycott Boycott Novell (1, Insightful)

Hurricane78 (562437) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782067)

Except that the Mono project is part of the EEE (embrace, extend and extinguish) strategy of microsoft.
Microsoft has a deal with Novell. But not with other Distributions or Gnome. So they can still sue the hell out of them if they want.
Now that Gnome largely depends on Mono (indirect dependencies), they reached an important step.

These people warn about this problem. Many are badly informed because it's some kind of retard magnet, but this makes the base point not untrue.
Oh, and I myself act trough boycotting Gnome. Their philosophy is "Make it as easy as possible, and do not care if the user wants to confgure it differently or have a choice". This is what I disliked about Windows (except for it being closed source and made by a highly criminal company).
This Mono problem is the last straw that breaks the camel's back.

And just for those who disagree: This is - per definition - my POV. Of course you can disagree. :)
But be prepared to bring a hell of a good set of arguments to the table. :)

Re:Boycott Boycott Novell (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782119)

Look, .net kicks ass from the developers' perspective. It's by far the best platform to program in. I'm a huge fan of free software myself, but with visual studio 2008 and the .net 3.5 stuff, I find myself doing all my hobby programming in windows.

Either mono succeeds, or microsoft locks in developers. It's that simple.

Re:Boycott Boycott Novell (2, Interesting)

PenguSven (988769) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782185)

right, because .Net is making every other development language/platform obsolete, and everyone wants to use .net. in simmilar news, AIDS is the new black, and everyone will have it this summer. you notice the operative word in what you wrote? "I" it might kick ass from YOUR perspective, but not necessarily everyone (or anyone) elses.

Re:Boycott Boycott Novell (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782283)

Nobody cares if you agree or not. There's been an open source implementation of nearly every programming technology since the beginning of computing.

After you've finished shitting your pants about .NET programmers, maybe you can freak out about people programming in FORTRAN77 or something.

Re:Boycott Boycott Novell (1)

PixelSlut (620954) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782153)

"Now that Gnome largely depends on Mono (indirect dependencies), they reached an important step." This is complete FUD. Gnome does not in any way depend on Mono. In fact, pretty much everything in your post except the "this is my POV" is pure FUD. Nobody has ever found any grounds on which Microsoft could sue any Linux companies, and all this "boycott Novell" stuff is just trying to fuck with a company that is contributing a shitload of great work to the community.

Re:Boycott Boycott Novell (1)

Chuck Chunder (21021) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782193)

Except that the Mono project is part of the EEE (embrace, extend and extinguish) strategy of microsoft.

Let me get this straight, when Microsoft embraces and extends something (lets says html or Java) that's part of Microsoft's strategy?

And when the opposite happens, ie free/open software embraces and extends something (let's say .Net) that's part of the same Microsoft strategy too?

Re:Boycott Boycott Novell (1)

speedtux (1307149) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782313)

These people warn about this problem.

You're presuming that they are right; I think these people are full of shit.

But whether they are right or not doesn't even matter. I don't want to hear anti-Novell or pro-Novell messages at all at open source conferences, I want people to stick to the agenda and topics that I came for.

Obstructionists, Malcontents (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782139)

These protesters are merely obstructionists who are looking for ripe targets to shake down. They're simply professional malcontents who can't contribute anything worthwhile society in general, much less to software development.

BoycottNovell - the sad truth (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782375)

Look, zealous protesters on private property and zealous policemen aside, Roy Schestowitz is just a kid with massive amounts of time on his hands and a grudge the size of Ireland. He's an unemployed college dropout who lives with his parents (I'm not kidding here) and his credibility level is less than zero. Occasionally he'll write up something interesting, but with his seemingly 24/7/365 posting activity (just head on to COLA [google.com] to get an idea) most of what he writes is just self-referential gobbledygook of no value whatsoever. Six or seven thousand-word-plus posts per day? No way.

Anyone who thinks Microsoft made Hans Reiser kill his wife [boycottnovell.com] , claims he turned down a "six figure" job because they asked him for a Word document [boycottnovell.com] or posts things like [digg.com] these [digg.com] shouldn't be taken seriously. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, and that's what he banks on. The rest is really just his inexperience, insane hatred and child-like demeanor showing through.

That blog is nothing more than an endless stream of misrepresentations, thinly veiled lies, witch hunts [boycottnovell.com] and weird "THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD BE SCARED OF" prose, accentuated by what I suppose he thinks are "funny" photoshopped images of people and things he thinks are out to get him. A few days ago he wrote up a storm about all the journalists he estimated had been "bribed" by Microsoft because they got evaluation laptops with Windows 7, and a few of those people actually humoured him by stopping by and explaining why they wouldn't throw away decades of journalistic experience and reputation for a $2,000 laptop, but he just ignored them. Hey, he's right and he knows it.

Linux.com featured [linux.com] an article by Bruce Byfield on this. Roy has a retinue of about half a dozen hanger-ons why post up a storm whenever and wherever anyone criticizes his abrasive "advocacy", which can be seen clearly there... don't miss the fact that our very own favorite troll [slashdot.org] is also chummy with him (I mean if you needed an excuse). It seems he does these days [slashdot.org] is post [slashdot.org] links [slashdot.org] to Schestowitz's blog with his fourteen accounts anyway.

I'm sure it's important to keep an eye out for Microsoft and all, but by god, this guy is just bad news for the FOSS community. He brings out the worst of the "OMG I HATE MICROSOFT, I AM ANGRY AND I'M GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!" crowd. On purpose, I'm sure. Because the more abrasive he becomes, the more people dislike him and the more he can claim he's being "stalked" and "targeted" by the Evil Empire (TM). That kid is trapped in a vicious circle he built for himself. He needs to take a deep breath, go outside and play or something. He's so desperate and impatient to make a name for himself but he goes about it with such incompetence (volume != quality) that sometimes I think he must be sponsored by someone or something like that. Hell, he's already claiming Microsoft and Novell are directly responsible for all this.

Anyway, teh internet is serious business and all that...

Yep (2, Insightful)

FungusCannon (1408259) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782015)

Communists are assholes.

Re:Yep (0)

Khyber (864651) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782403)

You just proved you know precisely JACK SHIT about Communism.

Did you know there's quite a few Communism-based societies in the UNITED STATES, yes?

I suggest you look up the Radical Faeries and look at what WORKING COMMUNISM is all about - no race, religious, gender, skin color, NONE of those barriers exist. Christians and Pagans and Satanists and many, MANY other religions cooperating in harmony for a common goal. People of all creeds, beliefs, orientations, all do their job and know they have to do it.

Having spent many weeks at one of their "Sanctuaries" just east of Nashville, I can tell you right NOW that not only are you full of shit but ungodly ignorant. These people are some of the most kind and intelligent people I've met - far above your already-shown intelligence - which is ZERO.

Now go back to Digg, asshole. Real men are talking.

non-story (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782021)

a single guy gets pushed around by a couple policeman, after ideologically motivated protest against novell. truly a sign of an out-of-control communist tyranny!

Democracy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782027)

Isn't India the worlds largest democracy?

Re:Democracy (1)

PenguSven (988769) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782127)

according to wikipedia, India is a Federal Republic with Parliamentary Democracy, so where the hell does communism come into this?

Re:Democracy (1)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782161)

The state government of Kerala is led by the Communist party?

Re:Democracy (1)

Chuck Chunder (21021) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782225)

so where the hell does communism come into this?

One sentence before some rant about a capitalist business enterprise?

Re:Democracy (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782277)

Don't you know that any government the US doesn't approve of is automatically communist?

Of course, the real answer is that it's possible for a government to be both democratic and communist. They're orthogonal to each other.

Re:Democracy (1)

CAIMLAS (41445) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782445)

Yes, and the United States is a Constitutional Republic. And Nazi Germany was a democracy. But these are just names and labels, and don't really speak for the true nature of the state.

A communist party working in within a republic/democracy is entirely plausible, as communism has always been an insurgent governmental ideal: get into the government and take it over from the inside. You're going to have vestiges of whatever came before for quite a while. And what actually is never is the same as what is being presented (see: Soviet Russia and the difference between the strength/power/unity propaganda and the mafia-controlled-everything poverty that was the reality).

I can't wait for the morons to appear here (4, Insightful)

Master of Transhuman (597628) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782033)

You know, the die-hard haters who come out of the woodwork every time Novell is mentioned, dredging up the years old Microsoft deal, which I predicted at the time would have zero impact on Linux and FOSS and have been vindicated in that prediction - except for the haters.

These people really don't give a damn about Linux or FOSS - all they care about is establishing that they're more "moral" than everyone else by opposing any interoperability deals with Microsoft. The fact that the average corporation couldn't care less and only wants some assurance that their Linux deployment will work with their Microsoft deployment is ignored by these morons. The fact that this allows Novell to improve, however small, Linux's penetration into the data center and corporations doesn't interest them either. The fact that whatever Novell agreed to in the deal in terms of "patent protection" is overwhelmingly irrelevant to any future patent cases (which so far haven't materialized and are unlikely to - and unlikely to be won by Microsoft when they do, as countless people have pointed out) doesn't matter to these clowns either.

Only their juvenile emotional well-being matters to them - and of course, damaging the emotional well-being of everyone else who disagrees with their fanaticism.

Fuck 'em.

Re:I can't wait for the morons to appear here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782141)

Funny how you appear to have made it here first. Who's the moron?

Re:I can't wait for the morons to appear here (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782259)

Kindly lick my balls, you open-sores dicknugget. I only came in here to ask "dots or feathers" and already you unwashed hippie ball-garglers are crawling out of the woodwork to complain about how some people are talented enough to ask for money for their work and actually get it.

Re:I can't wait for the morons to appear here (1)

TubeSteak (669689) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782151)

The fact that the average corporation couldn't care less and only wants some assurance that their Novell deployment will work with their Microsoft deployment is ignored by these morons. The fact that this allows Novell to improve, however small, Novell's penetration into the data center and corporations doesn't interest them either.

I went ahead and fixed that for you
Novell's agreement with Microsoft doesn't benefit Linux, it only benefits Novell.

Re:I can't wait for the morons to appear here (3, Insightful)

PixelSlut (620954) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782163)

It benefits Novell, but Novell benefits Linux.

Re:I can't wait for the morons to appear here (1)

Tubal-Cain (1289912) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782533)

Someone further up in the comments noted that Novell is the only one allowed to distribute Mono.

Re:I can't wait for the morons to appear here (1)

renegadesx (977007) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782267)

Considering Novell hire tons of open source developers to work on open source projects it actually DOES help the community

Might I add that the patent protection deal with Microsoft, despite something I dont personally agree with has actually been helpful to get Linux into the places that have already bought Microsoft's FUD campaign, increasing Linux's market share in places it proberbly wouldn't have.

Re:I can't wait for the morons to appear here (1)

LingNoi (1066278) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782413)

Even if novell didn't hire them they'd still work on their projects.

Some people resigned from novell after the microsoft deal, they didn't stop working on their projects.

Re:I can't wait for the morons to appear here (1)

jjohnson (62583) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782455)

Other things being equal, they're probably happier to be paid to work on their projects than not. Except for the drama llamas who stormed out, that is.

Re:I can't wait for the morons to appear here (1)

pirhana (577758) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782437)

> Might I add that the patent protection deal with Microsoft, despite something I dont personally agree with has actually been helpful to get Linux into the places that have already bought Microsoft's FUD campaign, increasing Linux's market share in places it proberbly wouldn't have.

You are equating success with market share ALONE. While companies like Microsoft believe in this , FLOSS is altogether different.

Wrong (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782339)

The Microsoft/Novell pact does NOT benefit Novell. It benefits Novell's customers.

Re:I can't wait for the morons to appear here (1)

Xaria (630117) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782367)

Do you really think that once they get in-house Linux experience people won't start looking at other options? You could say most of the above about Red Hat, but there are plenty of people out there who use CentOS and Red Hat are cool with that.

If you want money spent on Linux, it has to appeal to people WITH money. Which means that money has to be spent on it to ensure proper support. Which needs corporate backing. Linux would have no where near the market penetration that it does without Red Hat, SuSE (now Novell) and now Ubuntu.

Get off your high horse. The corporate world doesn't exist to donate money to nice causes. Be GLAD that someone is making money out of Linux. They are benefiting from other people's free labour, but that is a labour of love. Those people who donate their time also benefit from the investment in kernel developers by the big companies. It's a two-way street.

Re:I can't wait for the morons to appear here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782429)

The fact that this allows Novell to improve, however small, Linux's penetration into the data center and corporations doesn't interest them either.

Fuck 'em.

Maybe. Currently, Novell seem more interested in taking customers from Red Hat than "increasing Linux penetration" i.e. taking customers from MS. Here's a link [novell.com] . With friends like Novell, why does Linux need enemies like MS? Of course, MS and Novell are all sucky-face Koombaiya buddies now. Gag. Spoken as a former paying SuSE user and current (but probably not for long) Novell stockholder. I appreciated what Novell did to stop MS's old sweetheart SCO, but now Novell seems to have joined MS as an enemy of freedom.

Fuck 'em.

Re:I can't wait for the morons to appear here (3, Funny)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782461)

You know, the die-hard haters who come out of the woodwork every time Novell is mentioned, dredging up the years old Microsoft deal, which I predicted at the time would have zero impact on Linux and FOSS and have been vindicated in that prediction - except for the haters.

Yeah, but in all fairness, I think many of us forgot that you predicted that. If we'd remembered, we would definitely have kept our mouths shut.

Re:I can't wait for the morons to appear here (1)

Brain Damaged Bogan (1006835) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782489)

"Fuck 'em."
i'd preffer not too... one curry-fart and my penis would melt.

Re:I can't wait for the morons to appear here (0, Troll)

Khyber (864651) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782535)

I can't wait for despotic assholes who have nothing better to do than cut people down appear.

Oh, shit, Master of Transhuman is already here, I'm too late.

He who whores for karma by cutting others down deserves a slap upside the face with a replica of a horse cock.

Hey, you wanna cut people down? I don't know shit about Novell, I'll just cut you down because you're the easiest target, with your unfettered diarrhea of the mouth.

MySpace/YouTube Integration is a feature emerging (4, Insightful)

SeaFox (739806) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782055)

Most of the snaps taken during the scuffle were forcefully deleted by the organizers, after seizing the protesters' mobile phones.

Lesson for next time: Use a phone with automatic blogging so the photos are off the phone and on the Net before they can stop you.

Re:MySpace/YouTube Integration is a feature emergi (1)

mdmkolbe (944892) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782135)

I'm not a cell-phone/camera sort of person, so I was quire surprised to find out there is already an app [shozu.com] for doing this.

Re:MySpace/YouTube Integration is a feature emergi (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782583)

Why on earth would you let anyone take your phone away from you? That's why humans have fists you know.

What a Shame !! (1)

Axe4ever (1155411) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782059)

I am from India,from Gods Own Country. And i am ashamed to tell that i also know a lot of people who support FOSS not knowing what it is. They support FOSS just because that they dnt have tp pay anything for the usage. They don't understand the concept as such. So that means that even pirated ones are free.Its a shame that things have happened to this extent of manhandling a crowd by the cops. Both parties are not aware of what has to be done. The irony is that this is happening at the worlds largest democracy and that too in a literate state like Kerala, where the literacy percentage is more that 90% and where 1000s of engineers are churned out every year. Truely, a shame!!

Re:What a Shame !! (4, Insightful)

Paradigm_Complex (968558) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782203)

I've always found it very difficult to chose whether or not to back those who support my own aims for all the wrong reasons.

Re:What a Shame !! (1)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782299)

"...in a literate state like Kerala, where the literacy percentage is more that 90%..."

Literate? With as much as 10 % of population illiterate? OK, I get it, could be worse, but considering that three thousand years have passed since Rigveda was composed, I find this state of affairs [wikipedia.org] rather grim. Come on, you're no bloody Pakistan, are you? (OK, that was far from a good joke, I admit. ;-))

Concerning this event, though, I cannot keep from thinking that perhaps emotions simply reacted faster than brains on both sides. Now where do I get an objective, NPOV report on this quarrel? Nowhere, I guess...

FOSS Haters Anonymous (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782065)

Hello Bill, Is that you? Steve

Obligatory (1)

Anton Styles (1336251) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782071)

*pulls out the gouger* In Communist India, source opens YOU!

Boycott Novell? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782075)

Isn't that site run by twitter?

Re:Boycott Novell? (3, Funny)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782183)

The police are probably twitter sockpuppets.

Re:Boycott Novell? (5, Funny)

twitter_sockpuppet (1408775) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782321)

Yeah, because everyone is a twitter sockpuppet.

Inaccurate Report (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782089)

The report is very misleading. These people are not open-source activists. Let them go to hell.

Taint. (1)

Surreal Puppet (1408635) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782093)

No matter of the people protesting Novell are a vocal minority subgroup that annoys most people. Having police roughing them up and removing evidence about doing so is bad PR for all free software, and it's completely immoral to rationalize this sort of reprehensible behavior just because you don't agree with with what they're protesting about. So they still live. So what, it still shows that this specific police force consists of thugs. Do you people feel relieved over not getting shot every time you pass customs at the US border?

Re:Taint. (1)

mooreti1 (1123363) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782361)

Just as an aside, I doubt that there was a Novell rep directing the police on how to disband the protesters. I'm just sayin'...

Re:Taint. (1)

Surreal Puppet (1408635) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782527)

No, of course not. But an open-source sponsor company still chooses to associate with an obviously oppressive government. And that's not good at all.

Ideologically Motivated News (1)

XDirtypunkX (1290358) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782097)

Oh noes, it's the communist boogey-man! They must be ideologically hard-core communists, worried about losing their sponsors and all (a little ironic, communists with sponsors).

If you invited me over to your house and I started protesting you, putting anti-you posters on your wall, calling you a Microserf and generally being a douche then you would well be within your rights to call the police and have me removed. Of course, if the cops were heavy handed (they often are) I could pin everything on a conspiracy by the "man".

I mean, if you're going to make it a story, someone at least has to get exposed to high voltage (hopefully while saying "bro").

Re:Ideologically Motivated News (1)

Surreal Puppet (1408635) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782177)

Yeah, but a country isn't a house. For example, you do not, as the owner of the house, have exclusive right to regulate lethal force within it. Allowing closed communities to form with their own laws and moralities about such basic things as the freedom of speech isn't generally good for society, or the people in the communities. Look at North Korea or Saudi Arabia for example.

Re:Ideologically Motivated News (1)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782253)

Oh noes, it's the communist boogey-man! They must be ideologically hard-core communists, worried about losing their sponsors and all (a little ironic, communists with sponsors).

If you look at China the Communist party has gradually been corrupted by private enterprise to the point where it will take money from one 'sponsor' and then cover up the logos from that sponsor's competitiors. Even worse that sponsor can buy the right to act above the law just like the Party always has. Essentially communism was always about monopolies, originally these were monopolies that were run by the Party - the so called collectives - now private enterprise can run them instead. In both cases government goons protect the monopoly.

Trotskyites always said that 'Communism', or rather the version that Communist Parties implement was State Capitalism, and it sort of seems they were right. Actually if you look at the original collective idea, in practice they were big feudal farms owned by the Party with the workers reduced to the level of serfs since they had no freedom to get a job elsewhere or negotiate about their pay and conditions. The difference is now the Party has merged with big business in a way reminiscent of Musolinis 'Corporate State'. Of course on the upside there is no longer mass starvation, but the system is actually much less free than a country with free markets and free elections and oddly much farther from socialism. I suspect it's not that efficient either even if the inefficiencies can be hidden in the short term by threatening anyone who points them out.

Re:Ideologically Motivated News (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782281)

If you look at the US the Republican party has gradually been corrupted by private enterprise to the point where it will take money from one 'sponsor' and then cover up the logos from that sponsor's competitiors. Even worse that sponsor can buy the right to act above the law just like the Party always has.

Fixed that for ya!

Re:Ideologically Motivated News (1)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782345)

Even worse that sponsor can buy the right to act above the law just like the Party always has.

The Communist Party in China is much more above the law than the Republican party. You can sort of tell that is the case given that the Republicans have just lost power because they lost an election whereas the Communist party in China ships people off to camps for trying to start alternative parties. [wikipedia.org]

others top my list (4, Insightful)

speedtux (1307149) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782147)

The objections of BoycottNovell.com against Novell make no sense to me: Microsoft's deal with Novell hasn't affected anybody negatively, and Novell continues to make valuable contributions to the FOSS communities (note: I'm an Ubuntu user, and although I like Mono better than Java, I don't use it much).

At the top of my list of companies that claim to be open source-friendly but that actually have dangerous agendas would be Sun, Apple, and Nokia. All of those companies have big patent portfolios, deals with Microsoft, and patent deals, and they have frequently acted against the interests of open source and open standards, and we still don't boycott them. Furthermore, although those other companies talk a lot about their contributions, Novell is probably responsible for a lot more software that people use day-to-day.

Re:others top my list (1)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782625)

Well, I think they are trying to be proactive, where as you seem to suggest waiting for something bad to happen.

Novell? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782149)

What? What am I missing here? Isn't novell the maker of openSuse? Isn't openSuse uh... free? Why are Free software activists against novell?

I must sound pretty stupid right now.

And then the communist party is against open source? What? Where does that make sense?

Re:Novell? (1)

von_rick (944421) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782297)

What? What am I missing here? Isn't novell the maker of openSuse? Isn't openSuse uh... free?

Isn't novell the maker of openSuse? Isn't openSuse uh... free?

Novell isn't the maker of anything. They sponsor the project. But OpenSuse is different from SUSE Linux Enterprise (SLE). You have to buy SLE licenses from Novell.

Re:Novell? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782631)

Just to add you can also buy licenses for SLES from Microsoft which is why they get so hot, the most hardcore ones view Novell as the Judas of the community.

They are actually the maker of something, they still decide what projects do and dont go in at the end, they employ alot of the developers, they still actually make products (e.g Groupwise, eDirectory etc) and open source some of their own propietry applications (e.g iFolder) and build enterprise distro's such as SLES and OES (Open Enterprise Server)

manhandled (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782205)

I always thought 'manhandled' meant to hold someones man-hood. ie grab them on the dick and balls. lucky bastards.

I was already boycotting Novell... (1)

Narcocide (102829) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782229)

... but its good to see that they clearly aren't wasting any effort trying to win me back. That makes the decision quite guilt free for me.

I wonder if they'll send someone over here to rough me up for not using their shit now.

Nothing to do with FOSS/Novell ...whatever (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782239)

Its like this...
1. The government organized some event
2. The government deployed police because there would be "eminent" people ( read "politicians") participating in the event, and need "security"
3. A firm sponsored the event.We all know what sponsored means, dont we
4. A group of protesters land up from no where, bad mouthing the chief sponsor
5. The government would be embarrassed if the protesters are not dispersed. After all, its the government, the mighty government, whose actions are beyond reproach, and who is above the law
6. The police disperse them the only way they know of : bash them up

Its just a govt organized event, which ran into problems, and the troublemakers needed to be dealt with.

If it were a automobile expo, and Toyota ( just as an analogy) were a sponsor and toyota detractors landed up, the outcome would have been same.Protesters being manhandled is nothing new here, and nothing unexpected either.

The country has simply moved from protesters being beaten up by the British government prior to 1947, to them being beaten up by their own elected government since then.

The are not hijacking FOSS, but using it (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782243)

The government of Kerala are actually pretty big FOSS promoters. They include FOSS in the school curricula, have converted a number of government departments into FOSS-only, and the chief minister is quite pally with Stallman. The summary is complete bullshit - anyone with about 15 minutes to spare on Google can figure out the real relation between the government of Kerala and FOSS.

bloggers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782245)

what else do you expect from a bunch of bloggers? their fucking retards who gate crashed a private event and wouldn't leave. this isn't protesting in a public place or anything so noble. a few extra kicks might have done these moron's some good.

Most photos taken with digicams can be undeleted (4, Informative)

merc (115854) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782315)

There has never been a time in my life when some person of supposed authority have made any attempt to force me to delete photographs from my digital camera. Perhaps I am just not taking photos of important things. But should that happen I might gleefully comply if I didn't want to make a big deal about it.

Many digital cameras use VFAT filesystems which means their contents can be recovered. The utility of my personal choice is photorec(1). The photorec utility runs quite well on Linux. Just use /bin/dd to make an image of the SCSI disk to your HDD, run photorec with the device file as the parameter.

Photorec is written by Christophe GRENIER (no, I am not he) and can be found at:

http://www.cgsecurity.org/ [cgsecurity.org]

Re:Most photos taken with digicams can be undelete (1)

bendodge (998616) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782387)

Recuva for Windows also works well (it even works well in WINE, although I doubt that's recommended). I've salvaged photos and some rather important audio recorded on a cheap MP3 player that corrupted itself.

Sounds familiar (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25782333)

Don't taze me bro!

Look at the Odd news side!!! (0)

freedom_india (780002) | more than 5 years ago | (#25782481)

1) Communists supporting profit making enterprises [like Novell].
2) The voters prefer the Socialist model of software: Free Software Foundation.
3) Communist Govt. bashes up the voters who support the socialiist model of software.
Well, well, i have seen stranger things, but this takes the cake!
I always knew communist governments were strange... but.. this is beyond just amazing.

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