Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Chinese Hacking of American Military Networks On the Rise

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the secure-the-international-tubes dept.

Government 205

Anti-Globalism writes with this excerpt from the Guardian: "China is stealing sensitive information from American computer networks and stepping up its online espionage, according to a US congressional panel. Beijing's investment in rocket technology is also accelerating the militarization of outer space and lifting it into the 'commanding heights' of modern warfare, the advisory group claims. ... A summary of the study, released in advance, alleges that networks and databases used by the US government and American defense contractors are regularly targeted by Chinese hackers. 'China is stealing vast amounts of sensitive information from US computer networks,' says Larry Wortzel, chairman of the commission set up by Congress in 2000 to investigate US-China issues." The full study addresses these issues and others relating to the US-China relationship (PDF).

cancel ×

205 comments

Obligitory... (5, Insightful)

religious freak (1005821) | more than 5 years ago | (#25852941)

But how much is the USA ramping up their attacks on China?

Well, you just saw the first propaganda salvos (4, Informative)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853223)

They'll escalate it from there.

From TFA:

"says Larry Wortzel, chairman of the commission"

Larry Wortzel was:
http://www.heritage.org/about/staff/larrywortzel.cfm [heritage.org]

who are:
http://www.heritage.org/about/ [heritage.org]

"Our Mission
Founded in 1973, The Heritage Foundation is a research and educational institute - a think tank - whose mission is to formulate and promote conservative public policies based on the principles of free enterprise, limited government, individual freedom, traditional American values, and a strong national defense."

Yah got to have a bogeyman.

Re:Well, you just saw the first propaganda salvos (1, Troll)

jlarocco (851450) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853587)

Convenient that you left out the tiny detail that half of the commitee was Democrat.

What were you saying about having a bogeyman?

I'm also curious which part of the quoted "mission statement" you find so terrible?

Re:Well, you just saw the first propaganda salvos (1)

jacquesm (154384) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853975)

Convenient that he mentioned neither republicans nor democrats.

Conservative simply means to preserve the status quo, American Democrats are just about as conservative as the Republicans, so that's why there is a 50/50 split.

If the Democrats where as 'leftist' or 'liberal' as is usually spouted around on the intarwebs then no sane democrat would like to be seen near this group.

Re:Well, you just saw the first propaganda salvos (5, Insightful)

MrNaz (730548) | more than 5 years ago | (#25854071)

In the democratic theater that is modern western politics, the two governments that the population choose between (Republican/Democrat in the USA, Liberal/Labour in Australia, Conservative/Labour in the UK) need to be effectively identical in order that the real decisions get made not by the people, but by the neo-nobility.

There's no difference between modern western politics and autocratic regimes such as monarchy or even dictatorships. It's just that the ruling class hides behind the veil democratic system, and like the Wizard of Oz, pulls the string without the vastly dumbed down population being any the wiser.

They are kept in this subjugated state with a combination of bread and circuses to keep them politically passive as well as carefully constructed media content that portrays a monoculture as though it's freedom.

This is actually an on-topic point, that meandered for a bit. The point I'm trying to make is that only a fool would believe that the US does not have a cyber-warfare (ugh, idiotic term) program, and all this reporting on online attacks by the Chinese is an example of the media reporting bias.

Re:Well, you just saw the first propaganda salvos (1)

rhakka (224319) | more than 5 years ago | (#25854787)

How about that all of it is geared towards plutocratic, militaristic, nationalistic, socially conservative repression?

I'm a fan of a strong national defense. Too bad whenever I see anyone use that phrase, they really seem to mean a strong national Offense. I guess "that's the best defense" in some minds.

Can you possibly figure out why someone might find that terrible?

Re:Obligitory... (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853469)

One atomic weapon at a time. Yeah!

Re:Obligitory... (3, Funny)

narcberry (1328009) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853677)

No no, we need to stop the creation of nuclear weapons by dismantling our nuclear facilities and reducing our workforce of experts. By spearheading this initiative, we can expect other nations to follow suite.

Or they will surpass our technology and stockpiles while we hold hearings on the effects of global climate change. But I am confident they will not do so.

Re:Obligitory... (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853723)

What I meant was funnier than that.

Re:Obligitory... (1)

narcberry (1328009) | more than 5 years ago | (#25854509)

Maybe, but I stand confident in the fact that their are others, like me, who aren't that smart.

Re:Obligitory... (1)

billsf (34378) | more than 5 years ago | (#25854767)

Is this some excuse for another cold war?

If the USA government is poking at China, its more sophisticated and not readily detectable from the civilian nets. Appropriate technology and its proper use is the solution to this 'problem' that is very visible on our nets.

--

No, I can't read your signature, but my computer can. Using 'geek' is nicer than 'nerd' in these parts.

     

WTF? (5, Insightful)

Ritz_Just_Ritz (883997) | more than 5 years ago | (#25852943)

Perhaps I'm just too simple minded, but WHY ON EARTH is ANY of that information even accessible from the interwebz?

Re:WTF? (4, Insightful)

aliquis (678370) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853021)

My first though to, why is it even accessible if they think it's such a problem? Guess at least the military should know such basic things. (Though I do understand it makes their sharing easier.)

Where's The F***? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25853039)

No you're not simple minded. Why indeed is it anywhere near the internet ESPECIALLY with a report telling us WE KNOW THERE"S A PROBLEM!.

Get real. (5, Interesting)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853103)

This is propaganda. It's simply preparing the public for adding China to the Axis of Evil, erecting trade barriers etc.

 

Re:Get real. (4, Insightful)

moderatorrater (1095745) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853315)

I'd agree with you if this were a few decades ago, but right now we're too dependent on China's production and cheap labor.

Re:Get real. (0)

sexconker (1179573) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853499)

And we'll bust out the phrase "buy american"...once the economy turns around.

Unless...can we convince people that buying american will fix the economy, keep the lead out of their toys, AND stop the chinese from hacking our military?

Re:Get real. (0, Troll)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | more than 5 years ago | (#25854355)

You know that some folks higher up are manipulating gas prices to be cheap here in the U.S. so that they can convince Americans to bail out GM and buy their gluttonous pieces of shit as if it's now raining oil or sumthin'.

Signed, a proud Ford and Chevy owner

Re:Get real. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25854495)

Why are you proud of the brand of car you own?

And even that is faked (2, Informative)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 5 years ago | (#25854189)

The reason is that China controls the currency and pretty much fixes it against the dollar. When the euro rises against the dollar, then yuan rises a bit as well. BUT, China is the one with the monster holding of our dollars and increasing at exponential rate. The yuen should be rising against the dollar if it was traded freely. But it is not. BTW, same issue with India.

Re:Get real. (1)

QuantumRiff (120817) | more than 5 years ago | (#25855011)

I think its much more that were dependant on China buying our Treasury notes, or else we would literally be bankrupt.

Re:Get real. (4, Insightful)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853381)

Bang on correct! When do people, especially government types admit that they have a problem and are hemorrhaging data to foreign states? Only when there is an advantage to doing so. In this case, I think you are right, it's part of a ramp up on public information to demonize the Chinese. Specifically who among the Chinese is yet to be determined, but the probably have a short list of targets.

This is real. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25854813)

It's not just that.

Look, I wouldn't put it past Bush to pull a stunt like that. But the fact that Chinese hackers have been engaged in organized hacking is well known to the security community and we have nothing to do with Bush or his political goals.

It's not just China that does this, of course, but they're probably the highest profile country in terms of the number of incidents (or perhaps I should say they just get caught more often...).

So I won't fault you for mistrusting Bush. Hell, I wish we'd done a lot more of that in retrospect. But the hacking is real. It's organized. And it's well-known to all of us in the security community.

Re:This is real. (1)

zappepcs (820751) | more than 5 years ago | (#25854929)

The really funny part about conspiracy theories is that they are all bullshit until enough information comes to light to show they are not. There are many things in the world that happen which the general public as blissfully unaware of. This is a good thing in some cases, a bad thing in others. Since WWI, the US and western countries have had a habit of building up bad press against the people they don't like. Demonizing them as axis of evil etc. This is all about manipulating public opinion.

Personally, I think Al Queda has contracted the Chinese to poison our toys and food supplies. In short, the Chinese are terrorists! But that is just a tin foil hat beer drinking wtf did you say kind of thing.

If you were to play connect the dots with financial data, physical world events, political maneuvers, other significant events, I'm certain that you could come up with better stories than any news station ever could. If you want to have some fun just get a list of the 15 biggest corporations, the 15 most influential politicians, and the 15 most influential world leaders. Now find out how many ways you can connect them. The results would scare the pants off the pope if he wasn't on the lists... but hey, that's all conspiracy crap... right?

Mr. Orwell, I miss you!

Re:Get real. (1)

sowth (748135) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853561)

If that is true, then why have I received tons of scans from Chinese IP addresses? When I last looked at my firewall logs, most portscanning crap came from China, so I blocked a bunch of Chinese subnets.

What about the people injured or murdered by fake epogen and tainted food? Are the Chinese private sector and military out of control, or is this a deliberate effort?

Either way, this is a good reason for me to have an unfriendly attitude toward China. Maybe this is propaganda, but there must be some truth to it.

Re:Get real. (1)

jacquesm (154384) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853981)

It could simply be botnet harvesters trying to 'encourage' your machines to join the botnet.

Re:Get real. (2, Informative)

MrNaz (730548) | more than 5 years ago | (#25854147)

Actually, according to this list [spamhaus.org] , the top spammers are from the US but perform their nefarious deeds using Chinese servers.

In other words, your claim that "The Chinese are EVIL!" because they portscan you is BS.

I also think that by saying this "this is a good reason for me to have an unfriendly attitude toward China" you qualify for the Dumbest Statement All Week award. Most civilized people have, by now, realized that the "us versus them" attitude between nations is stupid, as no nation's people can be judged according to the deeds of its government or a minority such as it's hacking community. What sort of judgment would the world make regarding the US based on the actions and behavior of your last president?

Well done on being the among the last blind bigots to grow up.

No, it is not propaganda. (3, Interesting)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 5 years ago | (#25854161)

I have seen this. I used to work in a start-up and saw 2 seperate incidents. In one case, I was hiring for coders. Found a gal who was interesting. She had married a GI and moved to Northern Colorado Springs. Since we could do the work over the line, not an issue. I interviewed her and she was not interested. That is, until I mentioned taht we were doing work for DOD and NSA. Then her attitude changed dramatically. She very much wanted the job. Ok, not a big deal.

But a year later, we were looking for funding. Found a Tawain born guy from Loveland who use to own the chinese restaurant there. He wanted to invest. But he insisted on getting control of the hardware (which was the important part) if we defaulted. When would company be considered defaulted? When he said so. Told him no way. So, then he wanted to buy hardware and said that he would sell it in mainland china and we could all be worth 30 million or more. The hardware was only 1M. But he explained that mainland was willing to pay 30 for it and might go higher. I was actually shocked since I considered him Tawainese and would not do that. My opinion changed when at a slashdot posting, a tawain native said that the chinese who came there STILL consider themselves chinese, not tawainese. The original guy may not have been a spy. But, he was all too happy to sell tech to them. More interestingly, he indicated that he had been in touch WITH mainland china.

No, this is absolutely not propaganda. This is VERY real. Chinese ppl are happy to see their country coming up. And I understand that. But chinese gov is STILL in a cold war with us. They are very much spying on the west and buying tech. whenever possible. And yes, it is the west, not just America. That includes countries like Japan, Australia, Canada, France, UK, Israel, etc and even Russia. In fact, I consider your statement far more propaganda, because you have NO IDEA of what you are talking about.

Re:No, it is not propaganda. (1)

Watson Ladd (955755) | more than 5 years ago | (#25854931)

Every nation does that. The French government in particular is known for industrial espionage to benefit French companies. Does that mean we have a cold war with France?

Re:No, it is not propaganda. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25855091)

We wouldn't have to if you didn't screw us around
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22451478-2,00.html

And that was back then, it's still a pain in the ass now

Re:Get real. (1)

jeko (179919) | more than 5 years ago | (#25854401)

I sure hope so.

Re:Get real. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25854765)

Come to CCC Congress in Berlin in December; there are two talks which will definitively prove you wrong.

Re:Get real. (1)

NetNinja (469346) | more than 5 years ago | (#25855163)

Trade barriers?

What trade barriers? Everything is made in China now. Go to Walldo Mart and see how much stuff is made in the U.S.

So for the short sighted goal of increased revenue (Greed) we export all mass manufacturing to China.

We are headed for a fall so hard we may never recover. The U.S. can't even make cars anymore, to hear those executives clamering about U.S cars are on par with Japanese cars is so far off the mark they have been breathing to much of thier VOC's. If that was the case why is it they still have to make that statement 40 years later?

I remember when the Japnaese were buying F-16 fighter jets from the U.S. and all they wanted was the airframes. The japanese exact words were our Avionics and radars are better than the American electronics, what they really meant was "we are afraid that the Americans will plant logic bombs in the electronics and all they have to do is flip a switch.

When the war with China starts they already know how to shut down every single electronic component. Cell phones, Routers(netgear,linksys), loss of basic communication will have people running in fear all over the place. Ham radio operators will be in vouge again.

Ever see people have a fit when thier ISP goes down? Lord help us if people loose thier cell phones, crackberrys and MMO online games.

The U.S. knows how to manufacture 2 products so well that countries all over the world will die for.

Weapons

Slot Machines

Re:WTF? (1)

retech (1228598) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853107)

Those systems are online so that the gov't employees and contractors can get their daily dose of pr0n and /.

Those people have needs while at work and it'd be inhumane to not address them!

WTF?-Tasters Choice. (1)

Ostracus (1354233) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853227)

"Those people have needs while at work and it'd be inhumane to not address them!"

Well that explains the secret ingredient in MREs.

The real truth (As opposed to the fake truth) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25853333)

All the online computers are there only to hack into other terminals, all the secret data is kept in a "reservoir" data center deep underground in the Adirondack mountains. It's just like all of those laptops and thumb drives you hear getting stolen all the time, there's nothing on them. When they transport secure data, it's on a solid state hard drive transported in a container marked radioactive waste aboard a C17, where it is delivered by hazmat trucks to its destination after it lands, or crate dropped to a location if the location is secret. The government doesn't even use a known operating system or file structure.

Re:The real truth (As opposed to the fake truth) (1)

The Yuckinator (898499) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853603)

Where's the "+1 Crazy" when you need it?

Re:The real truth (As opposed to the fake truth) (1)

compro01 (777531) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853853)

"+1 Wishful Thinking" would be nicer.

Re:WTF? (1)

ahabswhale (1189519) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853389)

It's not available. The military has had regulations preventing the placement of confidential information on publicly accessible networks for over 20 years (which is back when I was in the Air Force). I'll leave it to the amazingly brilliant posters of /. to figure out why they might make such statements...

Perhaps... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25853447)

Perhaps I'm just too simple minded, but WHY ON EARTH is ANY of that information even accessible from the interwebz?

Bait?

While we're at it, is there any irrefutable proof or must we just blindly trust the storyteller?

Re:WTF? (1)

solweil (1168955) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853495)

It's a pre-release of a congressional report that's a rehash of scare pieces from the last few years of open source reporting, not a super-secret military document.

This TF (1)

fm6 (162816) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853595)

Really, really sensitive information isn't available that way. I'm told that organizations like the DoD that have separate networks with no physical connection to the Internet for the "burn before reading" stuff.

But you can't hide all your sensitive data behind that kind of security. Your organization would grind to a halt. Besides, not all data really merits that level of protection. You don't want the bad guys to have it, but it isn't the end of the world if they do.

Security is always a tradeoff of cost (including the cost of making it hard for your own people to get the information they need) versus risk. If you have a good security policy and enforce it properly, you can do a reasonable compromise between the two. The problem is that many organizations either don't have the policy or are sloppy about enforcing.

Re:This TF (1)

tcopeland (32225) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853943)

> I'm told that organizations like the DoD that have
> separate networks with no physical connection to the Internet

Yup, it's the SIPRNET [wikipedia.org] as opposed to the NIPRNET.

From that same Wikipedia article, it looks like the Coast Guard Academy has a SIPRNET node [uscga.edu] ... kind of surprising... but the cadets might as well get used to working with classified materials. CMS officer on a ship, there's a job with court martial potential!

Re:This TF (1)

fm6 (162816) | more than 5 years ago | (#25854631)

According to the article you link, the Coast Guard Academy is the only service academy with a Spirenet node. I'd be very curious to know why the CG thinks their cadets need access to classified information on this level. After all, the CG is primarily a law enforcement and safety entity these days.

Re:This TF (1)

tcopeland (32225) | more than 5 years ago | (#25854843)

> After all, the CG is primarily a law enforcement and safety entity these days.

Perhaps... but they still carry all the comms gear and COMSEC and whatnot so's they can do joint ops.

Re:This TF (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25855247)

SIPRNET only goes up to the Secret level. The good stuff is on JWICS [wikipedia.org] , which can do up to TS//SCI.

Re:This TF (1)

Diag (711760) | more than 5 years ago | (#25854975)

I worked at a defence org a couple of times.

I just wrote a post about my experience there, but then thought "maybe I shouldn't do that", and deleted it before posting.

All I'll say is ....

separate networks with no physical connection to the Internet

....correct. And they take it very seriously.

Why would they bother? (5, Insightful)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853041)

America is sending all of it's wealth to China anyway and is happily enslaving future generations to chinese investors.

"Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." Sun Tsu. 2500 years ago so.
 

Re:Why would they bother? (1)

vux984 (928602) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853559)

America is sending all of it's wealth to China anyway and is happily enslaving future generations to chinese investors.

Hee hee jokes on them. Its not going to get paid back. And at the end of the day all the stuff they sent us is worth more than all the paper we printed to get it.

I'm only half joking. Seriously... Maybe I'm being too cynical, but I think if this debt spiral continues... when it collapses under its own wate, the US is going to undergo an internal 'revolution', declare that it has no intention or obligation of paying back the previous administrations debts, and if any other country wants to make something of it...well the army is ready.

Re:Why would they bother? (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853771)

Only if we figure out a way to provide all of our transport fuels on our own.

Invading Canada for oil would be the start of a rather interesting period of history.

Re:Why would they bother? (3, Funny)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853817)

You can have the oil, but only if you take Celine Dion and Ben Mulroney as well.

Re:Why would they bother? (1)

Beardo the Bearded (321478) | more than 5 years ago | (#25854351)

Our countries are brothers. You guys can have all the oil, gas, water, electricity, and uranium you want.

You've got our back; we've got yours.

Hooray for Windows! (0, Flamebait)

toby (759) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853055)

Jail Gates.

Blackouts: Learn Mandarin now. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25853067)

The blackouts a few years back were caused by the Chinese.

Several other 'system failures' are also related to the Chinese.

The Chinese are very successful in their hacking and they are collecting data.

All this information will be used for when China is ready to 'reign in' America.

The future of warfare will be very different and you are seeing the groundwork.

One day the Chinese will say "You are now Chinese. New money will be printed. We are your friends."

Flags will rise and the infrastructure will remain the 'same' except for our leadership and monetary system (and taxes, ethics).

I'd like to say more but I can't. /tinfoil left at home

Didn't Bill Sell.... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25853097)

Didn't Bill sell most of our secrets during his 8 years in office?

Perhaps the last 8 years added something of value.

It's not one way (5, Insightful)

Caedes.Leighton (1186201) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853101)

US hacks China, China hacks US, where is the news in that? It's like watching two kids fight and both of them saying "He started it!" when in fact, they're both annoying little bastards.

Re:It's not one way (3, Insightful)

moderatorrater (1095745) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853361)

The news is that they're fighting and that the fighting's escalating. The two kids on the playground are more like Godzilla and Mothra - if they fight, there's going to be lots of explosions and buildings falling over. Plus, there's going to be some terrible dub work and the Japanese are going to somehow be involved. Also, we're going to find out about new powers that Godzilla has that he didn't have in the last movie. And then Steven Spielberg will do a remake that'll flop.

That got out of hand fast. Anyway, just because "they're both annoying little bastards" doesn't mean you shouldn't keep an eye on them. Especially if you live in Tokyo.

Re:It's not one way (1)

interval1066 (668936) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853653)

In my opinion, and is just that (but keep reading), China is more than "earnest" in its hacking efforts. Our so-called security and espionage institutions seem rather stuck in a cold war mentality in my opinion, just look at the confusion, ineptitude, and inter-departmental mis-communication after 9-11. So back in the day I used to run an apache server on my own domain, just for fun, and this required me to run my own domain server. I never got much traffic, never intended to as such I left my telnet port wide open- no ssh tunnel, so I could jump in remotely to do reboots or whatever. Security wasn't big on my mind as there was nothing sensitive on the server.
Then early one morning I noticed the dsl modem activity light going nuts, it was never busy early in the morning. I let this go on for three mornings, and on the last morning I audited my name server's system logs. An ip in China had hacked my pw's and re-compiled the server's openbsd kernel completely changing the default nature of the name server. I didn't try to analyze exactly what they had re-programmed my name server to do, I just re-compiled and closed off the telnet port.
But it made me think- I'd never gotten so much as an innocuous hit from a casually surfing American .gov or .mil domain, and here are the Chinese, actively bending a simple, but non-windows, domain server to their will. Just how hungry are such people for a technological presence, or even dominance? And just how asleep at the switch and backward are the leaders of the mighty United States? After everything that's happened since 9/11, the economy, everything, I think we really need to take a very stern look at how the US has been, and is being, run.
This might have been a fly-by-night group of hackers creating a botnet, but I never detected any bot code or strange kernel mods, only the name server hijack. I suspect a nation has to be very hungry to commit resources, private or not, to doing things like that.

Communist China! Your days are numbered! (0, Flamebait)

Cathoderoytube (1088737) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853139)

It's pretty obvious this would qualify as an act of war. I think it's in everybody's best interest if the United States retaliated by saying they're not going to pay off their debt to China. Also maybe putting up some sort of trade embargo against them.

I mean what's China gonna do? What's the worst that could happen in a situation like that? I think China would probably learn their lesson and become good.

Re:Communist China! Your days are numbered! (1)

Sta7ic (819090) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853213)

What's the worst that could happen [if we put up a trade embargo against China]?

When was the last time you went into a Wal-Mart and looked at the 'Made In..." tags? 70%-plus of the stuff in that store is from China, from trash cans to seasonal stuff to lego-like shelving units.

Re:Communist China! Your days are numbered! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25853307)

When was the last time you went into a Wal-Mart and looked at the 'Made In..." tags? 70%-plus of the stuff in that store is from China, from trash cans to seasonal stuff to lego-like shelving units.

When was the last time any of that stuff was actually necessary to our survival? Sure embargo China and we'll all have to do without cheap plastic rubbish bits for awhile, and start patching cloths instead of buying new ones for a bit. Eventually somebody else starts making stuff (or god forbid we get off our asses and do it ourselves) and we can buy from them instead. Now ask what it would do to China.

Re:Communist China! Your days are numbered! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25853351)

I think that's the point - who gets hit more? We can get crap anywhere, but where can they sell it if there's no US market.

Re:Communist China! Your days are numbered! (1)

Loibisch (964797) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853379)

Major "woosh"

Re:Communist China! Your days are numbered! (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25853221)

There are -zero- smelting plants for steel based alloys in the US.

Similar with electronics manufacturing, which is all done overseas.

All China would have to do is not export goods or raw alloys, and the US would be in a world of hurt.

Or China could just bomb Taiwan and cause the US more pain because of the sheer amount that the US depends on their manufacturing for electronic items.

China has the ball in this game.

Re:Communist China! Your days are numbered! (1)

sexconker (1179573) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853555)

There are -zero- smelting plants for steel based alloys in the US.

Completely false.
I won't even read the rest of your comment.

Re:Communist China! Your days are numbered! (1)

sowth (748135) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853821)

Electronics manufacturing is not done in the US? Then what is Wolf Electronix [wolfelectronix.com] ? Were the semiconductor facilities run by Intel and Philips just my imagination? Holy shit! I must be really fucked up to have hallucinated all that!

Re:Communist China! Your days are numbered! (1)

uberjack (1311219) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853391)

I propose we stop celebrating Chinese New Year, put an end to Chinese Fire Drill and stop playing Chinese Checkers (Go). That'll lurn 'em to bust our tomater.

Re:Communist China! Your days are numbered! (1)

idlemachine (732136) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853519)

Chinese Checkers (Go).

Chinese Checkers & Go are two entirely different games.

Re:Communist China! Your days are numbered! (1)

vvaduva (859950) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853501)

It's all about how spicy the mala chicken will become!

Re:Communist China! Your days are numbered! (3, Insightful)

bleh-of-the-huns (17740) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853585)

This sends the message to the rest of the world that the US may not pay its debt to them if they do something the US does not like.... That would be a bad precedent, as we would soon find ourselves very isolated when it comes to finance and commerce...

Re:Communist China! Your days are numbered! (1)

xant (99438) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853623)

Jesus Christ, all you people need a sarcasm detector adjustment. If you thought the parent was serious, you may in fact be a retard.

WTF? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25853725)

Insightful! What the fuck?

Mod parent funny!

act of war (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25853181)

isn't that an act of war?

Time to do what we did to the USSR (4, Insightful)

istartedi (132515) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853205)

One of the largest non-nuclear explosions ever came as a result of US technology that was stolen by the Russians. Except, the CIA knew it was happening and instead of stopping it they decided to plant faulty chip designs. Once the USSR knew the tech was unreliable, they were stuck with one helluva an auditing problem, beyond their capability.

How much do you want to bet that somewhere on a "vulnerable" network, there are some designs that are just... a little... bit... off.

Here's the Link (2, Informative)

istartedi (132515) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853347)

It was part of the Farewell Dossier [wikipedia.org]

Re:Time to do what we did to the USSR (1)

wigginz (730819) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853393)

I believe that would be called counter-intelligence. That's one of my favorite stories BTW.

Re:Time to do what we did to the USSR (1)

turkeydance (1266624) | more than 5 years ago | (#25854309)

well, of course B're Rabbit. "please don't throw me into that brier patch." (old USA folk tale concerning the Tar Baby) hey....it works on the domestic front as well: example: wife says to wash the dishes. i complain, but do it anyway, and break a few. no more dishwashing duties for a while. of course, she wants to buy new dishes. i consider that the cost of doing business.

Re:Time to do what we did to the USSR (1)

19061969 (939279) | more than 5 years ago | (#25855173)

Do you have a link to this? It's not that I don't believe you, but it sounds like a very interesting story and worth a read.

attack (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25853323)

Time to stop the games and attack them.

Boo! (4, Insightful)

ISoldat53 (977164) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853343)

Every age needs bogey man.

Re:Boo! (1)

neuromanc3r (1119631) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853973)

What? Is terrorism already burned out?

All the traffic I get from China is crap anyways (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25853367)

Setup an ACL and block the country.

Re:All the traffic I get from China is crap anyway (1)

bleh-of-the-huns (17740) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853629)

because most of the attacks do not come directly from them, they come via proxies from infected systems the world wide....

Old School Security (2, Interesting)

Plekto (1018050) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853549)

Perhaps this seems a bit extreme, but exactly WHY are these military computers even connected to the Internet? If it's really secret information, shouldn't they have their own network or just not put these things online?

Re:Old School Security (2, Funny)

Ant P. (974313) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853899)

That is old-school security - the admins probably still think it's called ARPAnet.

good (1)

stonedcat (80201) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853665)

good

Beijing's investment accelerating militarisation? (3, Insightful)

krou (1027572) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853721)

Beijing's investment in rocket technology is also accelerating the militarisation of outer space

Funny, I thought it was the US [commondreams.org] stance [eetimes.com] of space dominance [defensetech.org] that was accelerating militarisation of space.

For chrissakes! (1)

erroneus (253617) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853759)

Why don't we just take measures to sanction China? Oh wait, we let our economy fail to the point that China owns us. Somehow all this business-favoring government has managed to allow everything to get outsourced and allowed everyone to source everything from China.

China's internet link needs to be severed or otherwise blocked from passing through U.S. routers. US influence should also persuade similar actions in other nations as well. This sort of behavior should not be tolerated. CUT CHINA OFF. The alternative is to dive in with them and go all the hell out.

The Word (1)

MoparMark (1043238) | more than 5 years ago | (#25853903)

Frenemy. It's a love hate relationship. Colbert rocks.

That is W's fault (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25854007)

As a favor to BILL GATES, he pushed the gov towards MS. CIA and NSA use to laugh at the idiots at DHS for standardizing on MS. Until W told the rest of the intel world that they had to move towards WIndows as well. Combine moving inept corrupt people into agencies, with corrupt people from Microsoft and the CEO of companies like GE, walmart, Target, GM, etc and you have the downfall of American civilization and probably the west.

Re:That is W's fault (1)

IHC Navistar (967161) | more than 5 years ago | (#25854697)

"Combine moving inept corrupt people into agencies, with corrupt people from Microsoft and the CEO of companies like GE, walmart, Target, GM, etc and you have the downfall of American civilization and probably the west."

-You forgot ".....and using corrupt programs written by a corrupt software company."

Very off-topic pdf, except part of ch. 2 (2, Insightful)

billsf (34378) | more than 5 years ago | (#25854151)

The pdf may be of interest to those studying relationships with China, but very little mention of any "cyber war" except part of chapter two that stresses its 'non-classified' information. The biggest hole in US computer security is Windows and how people use it. It is very common for 'users' of Windows not to set passwords, which just makes it even easier easier to penetrate the whole network. Hopefully, no Windows machine can even access classified information in the first place.

Unix isn't perfect either and again, its the human aspect that is the biggest risk. Anyone caught using an account with access to 'sensitive' or 'classified' without an adequate password should be warned, explained what a good password is and fired if they can't comply. It would seem that there is high compliance and regular audits anywhere 'classified' information can be accessed. Chapter 2 of the pdf only mentions 'unclassified' material, never mind all 'classified' material is created from 'unclassified' resources. Truly classified data should never be accessible from The Internet in any way, in the first place. Any information placed on, or close to The Internet should be considered 'public' on a worldwide basis.

Generally speaking, China uses the simplest, known techniques, to penetrate servers. Any admin can tell you how many dictionary attacks come from China. It is impossible to determine which ones are just 'script kiddies' or students and which are serious organized efforts. There is a very small rate of success from this method. Today it seems that these (Unix) machines are simply used to spread the simple scripts on a wider scale. Simply moving off port 22 (even to port 23) will stop 99% of the problem. Statistical programs that temporarily deny access to a certain IP address can be very effective as most scans never return, even if the access is denied for as little as five minutes. To combat the hardcore attempts where the attack returns, simply increase the 'access denied' time and ultimately blacklist the IP address and the whole net if necessary. (It is very rare it ever goes that far.)

In conclusion: Don't put classified information in the reach of The Internet. Never use any Microsoft product to view 'classified' or 'sensitive' information unless it can be assured there will never be any Internet connections of any sort. It is highly unlikely any government secrets leak out unless that was the intention, such as a "trial balloon". At this time, this is a non-problem that can be stopped. If absolutely nothing is done, it could escalate in much the way spam did. The official report appears to draw the same conclusion, however that is buried in a pile of irrelevant and off-topic material.

BillSF

                       

Re:Very off-topic pdf, except part of ch. 2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25854901)

"It is very common for 'users' of Windows not to set passwords, which just makes it even easier easier to penetrate the whole network."

Enough FUD. On XP+ this would make it HARDER to penetrate the network because usernames with blank passwords CANNOT log on remotely. http://www.microsoft.com/protect/yourself/password/create.mspx [microsoft.com]

zeros (4, Informative)

cpankonien (964575) | more than 5 years ago | (#25854207)

the DoD network will continue to be vulnerable as long as they insist on using windows. lest you think i'm a peacenik or something, i was a boom operator in the USAF for 20 years. i retired in 1997, and joined the local LUG. Alot of the members were NCO sysadmins from the base, who related that "all the officers coming out of the zoo (USAF Academy) only knew windows, and policy did not allow for anything else". So, being good NCOs, they snuck linux in the back door and had it running all over the place, as proxy servers, firewalls, etc. their officers didn't know about it, but as long as nobody complained and it made them look good, they were happy. then when they found out, and had it removed. problems increased dramatically soon thereafter. fuckin' zeros...they don't listen! MSgt, USAF (Ret.)

Really? (1)

Frosty Piss (770223) | more than 5 years ago | (#25854757)

Really? There are LOADS of Linux and other *nix running at McChord. Of course email and SharePoint run on exchange. But as a Boom Operator, surely you know that much of the maintenance management applications as well as ARMS (you know, the application that tracks your flying hours) runs with Oracle on Unix minis. Right. And there are many many many more non-Windows applications I can think of. But of course as I said, email and SharePoint are on Windows (obviously).

I wonder if it is personal? (4, Interesting)

victim (30647) | more than 5 years ago | (#25854239)

The DoD takes everything personally, and for good reason, but I have a steady stream of chinese hackers attempting to break into the router in my tool shed that reports battery voltage and temperature at a cabin that is inaccessible for 6 months of the year.

I really should put a webcam in there so they can see what they have achieved if they ever do manage to get in.

(22.1F, batteries 25.3V, 600 watt hours of energy stored today.)

Re:I wonder if it is personal? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25855171)

I usually don't like geek stuff, but that is pretty durned cool. Where do you live?

stupid question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25854303)

why cant they just firewall chinese addresses?
thats what I do.. ;)

-dirtbag

poisoned Honey pots (3, Insightful)

dotmax (642602) | more than 5 years ago | (#25855233)

And you guys claim to read Schneiier?? Consider this: if the Chinese are spying on our tech, we can stick it to them rather badly by lettng them find pointless dead end projects upon which to waste their treasure. everything is an opportunity... .max
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...