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PC Grand Theft Auto IV Features SecuROM DRM

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the players-are-pirates-qed dept.

PC Games (Games) 531

arcticstoat writes "Game developer Rockstar has revealed that the forthcoming PC version of Grand Theft Auto IV will feature the controversial SecuROM 7 DRM system. Unlike some of EA's recent titles, such as Spore and Mass Effect, GTA IV won't limit the number of times that you can install the game, although SecuROM will be impossible to remove without leaving 'some traces' on your PC. Anyone hoping to avoid SecuROM by downloading the game form Steam will also be disappointed, as Rockstar says that all versions of the game will feature SecuROM, including digital versions online. On the plus side, Rockstar says that it's 'working with SecuROM to post information on our support pages regarding how to remove these inactive traces of the program for users who wish to do so.' Has Rockstar gotten a better balance between draconian DRM and fair copy protection here?"

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no (5, Insightful)

PhrostyMcByte (589271) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919575)

Has Rockstar gotten a better balance between draconian DRM and fair copy protection here?

No. Fuck them.

Re:no (5, Informative)

jlarocco (851450) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919583)

Here's an idea: Don't buy the fucking game. Problem solved.

Re:no (5, Insightful)

compro01 (777531) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919611)

I'm not going to be buying it, but that doesn't seem to be solving the problem, as they continue to push this crap.

Re:no (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25919753)

They lost my sale. I'm pirating it for sure.

And here I was thinking "finally, a halfway decent game to pay full price for".

Re:no (5, Insightful)

cliffski (65094) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920081)

pirating the game just makes one statement:

"I want this game, and I took it for free. If you can find a more secure drm, you will make more money from me"

If you really wanted t protest DRM, you would NOT play the game at all, whilst emailing them to say so.
When you pirate the game, you just get chalked up by the publisher as another pirate, not as some sort of anti-drm protest vote.

The people who pirated my games achieved fuck all in terms of removing DRM. I did that because people emailed me and made rational arguments about being in favour of drm-free games. If you actually want rockstar to ditch DRM, you need to tell them, not just act like the pirates who just want free stuff.

Re:no (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25920289)

On the upside, we who pirate won't get an experience ruined by DRM.

Re:no (5, Funny)

Bill Cuntzler (1419549) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919787)

as they continue to push this crap.

In "IV" form no less. These game companies will to ANYTHING to get you hooked.

Re:no (0, Redundant)

Ender77 (551980) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919883)

It depends on if securom is also on the steam version or not. If it isn't I will buy it, if it is then I will not. I refuse to support ANY game that has securom in it.

Re:no (1)

davester666 (731373) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920093)

Um, the summary explicitly mentioned that Securom is included with the Steam version as well.

Re:no (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25920343)

Read the article.

"Anyone hoping to avoid SecuROM by downloading the game form Steam will also be disappointed, as Rockstar says that all versions of the game will feature SecuROM, including digital versions online."

Re:no (1)

MMC Monster (602931) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920035)

If you are not buying it, why worry about what crap they are pushing? (Well, maybe you are interested in the "better for all society" sort of way, but that's not what drives most of human society.)

Re:no (4, Insightful)

HiVizDiver (640486) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920283)

Well, technically, if NO ONE bought the game, and it was evident that DRM was the reason why, then I bet it *would* solve the problem.

However, as we've "discussed" (I use the term loosely) ad nauseum here on /., most people have no idea what DRM is, and it doesn't cause most of THEM any problem. They make up the vast majority of people purchasing the game, so until such time that it TRULY becomes draconian (I think using that term might be engaging in a bit of hyperbole), they'll continue putting this shit in their games. Period.

Before I'm labelled as a corporate shill, note that I do not think DRM works. It does NOT prevent piracy, this much we know. But they still SELL a bazillion copies of the latest blockbuster game, so they must be doing something right, in there minds, right? I also think that the number of people that it REALLY causes problems for is pretty small compared to the number of copies sold on any given game. People who think they can bitch loudly on a company web forum and sign useless online petitions are deluding themselves in how much they think that companies give a rat's ass how much they piss an moan. Not until something happens on a truly epic scale (see the first sentence of this post) will they cease putting DRM in their games, and truly explore alternate means of mitigating piracy.

Yes, there are games where it's pretty bad, and yes I've seen the video on Youtube, [youtube.com] and I think that's ridiculous. But I also think that companies like EA and Rockstar are (to engage in hyperbole) filling their swimming pools with cash, and they can only reasonably conclude that it's because they are selling a shitload of games due to the fact that DRM works (again, in their minds).

Re:no (2, Insightful)

Kagura (843695) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920329)

I already read a blurb about it having SecuROM, but just like Spore, I don't really care. Spore ran fine without causing me any problems, and I've already pre-ordered GTA4 on Steam.

I recently ran into a problem with a different game having a five-install limit, and it took me an utterly annoying full week to get a new key through their message boards, but it finally went through. Aside from that one recent incident of a two-year-old game, I have never had any problems with DRM. That's not to say that won't be the case in the future, but right now DRM doesn't bother me one bit. For games like GTA4, where the developers put a lot of time and money into making a product that I genuinely and thoroughly enjoy, I don't mind paying it back to them.

I don't think all DRM complainers are looking for an excuse to pirate games, but at least some complainers are looking for an excuse. That small population should come clean with themselves. I regularly pirate games off and on, and it's merely what's most convenient to me at the time.

Re:no (1)

shemp42 (1406965) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920345)

Yep I too was going to buy this game until reading this. I refuse to play this stupid DRM game. there are far too many good games out to worry about one game. Kudos to you EA.... way to alienate your fans and not listen to the community. Everyone that changed their minds due to DRM BS needs to email or call them.

Re:no (1)

thermian (1267986) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919669)

Here's an idea: Don't buy the fucking game. Problem solved.

I won't be, that's certain. Its a shame I have to miss out on so many good games, but I do not want that SecureROM shit on my computer.

I won't pirate it either, I should be clear about that, I do have principles. I don't think pirating the games of these moronic publishers will change their minds, so I don't do it.

Re:no (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25920189)

I won't buy it. I'll pirate it instead. SecuROM 7 hasn't done anything to stop me from downloading Spore and Mass Effect, and I don't expect that it will do anything to stop me from downloading GTA IV.

Re:no (5, Insightful)

Goldberg's Pants (139800) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919635)

There is no reason for this crap to be on the Steam version. Nadeo bundled Starforce with Trackmania to start with but ultimately removed it.

Treat me like a thief? Then I'll be one. Piracy offering the better alternative again, as Securom will be neutered on the Reloaded (or whoever) release which will probably be out before the game is in all markets.

When are these idiot developers going to get their heads around this? DRM DOES NOT WORK! All it does is force people who value the contents of their PC to not buy their titles.

I wonder where the tipping point is? Because it's going to come soon I think. Where the number of sales LOST due to the DRM becomes an issue.

If you were going to buy GTA IV, and on this news now won't, please post. I mean they've lost my $50.

"Software Piracy: The friendlier, safer alternative."

Re:no (4, Insightful)

Shados (741919) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919703)

When are these idiot developers going to get their heads around this?

PUBLISHERS, not developers. As a general rule, game developers are against strong DRM, and often, against any DRM at all. The publishers usually strong arm them. In this case, the developer and the publisher is pretty much one and the same (I think...), but I doubt the development department agreed with the suits on this.

Re:no (2, Interesting)

Goldberg's Pants (139800) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919773)

Yes, I realized after I hit submit the error I made, but really, the developers need to stand up to this crap. I mean the suits may have the power, but without the developers, they have nothing to sell.

On the plus side, in the current financial climate, I should thank them for doing this since I've saved well over $100 this year that I would have otherwise spent on software had it not had ridiculous copy protection.

Re:no (2, Insightful)

Shados (741919) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919985)

In many cases, the developers are not in a position to make a stance. Especialy with smaller developers, this ends up like a second take on the big labels for music/movies. The "artist" (developer in this case) needs the publisher more than the publisher needs the "artist"... some games, including decent ones, never see the light of days for lacking publishers (especially indie ones. Commercial ones still may or may not struggle to get the game out).

There may also be licenses that are owned by the publisher. The biggest example of this is the Neverwinter Night serie. Bioware was at the mercy of Atari, who screwed them over quite a few times over the licenses, forced DRM on the games, and forced even some development decision on them. Most publishers are, simply put, assholes. With digital distribution, some games now totally bypass the corporate publisher though...I guess that helps.

Stop Being An Idiot (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25920107)

Another stupid little kid trying to act like he has a fucking clue about developer publisher relationships.

Publisher HATE DRM and wish they lived in a world that didn't make its use so necessary.

Most developers are getting paid directly by the publisher with contracts that put the chances of them ever seeing any royalties off sales very small due to them being desperate to get paid up front. Piracy doesn't come out of their pocket.

Microsoft is the one to blame for letting the PC games industry come to this sorry state with their pointless and incompetent foray into the console market with the Xbox fiasco.

Re:no (2, Informative)

nobodyman (90587) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920269)

I don't really think publishers are "The Bad Guys" either. When publishers read stories of un-DRM'ed titles like World of Goo having a 90% piracy rate [arstechnica.com] , I imagine they feel justified.

Re:no (1)

anakhros (1409143) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919851)

The dilemma I'm having after hearing this news is not whether to buy the game or not, but whether to pirate it or not... I was really looking forward to this one, too.

Re:no (2, Informative)

JonMartin (123209) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919951)

If you were going to buy GTA IV, and on this news now won't, please post. I mean they've lost my $50.

Mine too. Was looking forward to it, but there are plenty of other games I can spend my time and money on.

Rockstar: see this $50? Not for you anymore.

Re:no (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25919975)

wonder where the tipping point is? Because it's going to come soon I think. Where the number of sales LOST due to the DRM becomes an issue.

lol. Like any CEO would EVER give a report to their stockholders that the crippling DRM they ADDED to their product, that cost a LOT of money to add, is costing them in sales. No. All you will see is them turn around and say "Piracy has claimed even more of our projected (ie: hoped for) sales! It's a good thing we put that DRM on it or it would have cost us millions more!!!!"

The only way you're going to get them to grudgingly accept the DRM is costing them sales directly is if nobody buys the game, and nobody pirates it. And even then they'll claim it's piracy but claim it's "so far underground we have yet to determine exactly how it's being transferred!"

Re:no (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25920045)

If the number of lost sales was even noticeable they my take it out but it's not. Most people wouldn't know Securom from a hole in there heads. Boycotting may make you feel better but it won't get enough traction to matter.

Re:no (0)

arbiter1 (1204146) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920103)

When are these idiot developers going to get their heads around this? DRM DOES NOT WORK! All it does is force people who value the contents of their PC to not buy their titles.

DRM works to a point, but when it gets to punishing legit users like spore did with limited installs then it has gone to far. That push some ppl to piracy and ppl that do stay legit download the pirated crack for game to get around the bull crap.

Re:no (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25920317)

Bah, they lost my money when they decided to delay the PC version another 7 months after the console release.

Re:no (1)

xant (99438) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920359)

I'm going to buy World of Goo. I'm not going to buy this. Destroy DRM.

Re:no (1)

d0mokun (1227718) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920367)

Nobody is 'forcing' you to do anything. If you don't like the DRM, don't buy or play the game. Clifski sums it up perfectly: http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1045255&cid=25920081 [slashdot.org] Pirating helps nobody and you cannot attempt to justify it with whatever reason- be it that you don't 'like' DRM or don't agree with the publisher/developer.

Re:no (1)

Praxx (918463) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919711)

... although SecuROM will be impossible to remove without leaving 'some traces' on your PC

When did consumers decide it was ethical for software companies to leave hidden bits of information on computers that don't belong to them?

Re:no (1)

Rayban (13436) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920009)

Somewhere in the 80's. Basically right around the time where computers came with permanent attached storage.

Re:no (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25920357)

Well, no. Somewhere mid-90's, with Windows 95. .ini files leave a lot less marks than registry entries, and autoexec.bat was a lot easier to clean than the registry.

Re:no (2, Insightful)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919745)

If you want the game, wait for the crack to appera on www.piratebay.com so you can install it without this particular bit of system abuse, and pay for the game so you have a valid license. And write a friendly letter (anonymously) explaining why you had to wait until the crack before you felt safe installing it. Among other abuses, Securom makes sure that you have to have the CD installed while running the game, and this is simply stupid in the modern computer world.

Re:no (1)

bakedpatato (1254274) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920097)

Among other abuses, Securom makes sure that you have to have the CD installed while running the game, and this is simply stupid in the modern computer world.

If you mean disk in the drive, then no. Newer SecuROM "secured" games like Spore and Mass Effect don't need the DVD in the drive in order for you to play.

Re:no (1)

Beardo the Bearded (321478) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919781)

It looks like they haven't learned a thing in the last five years.

They put copy protection on GTA3 for the PC, and it was so unplayable that you had to download the No-CD crack in order to play the game. That's legitimate, retail customers that had to pirate the game they bought in order to play it. That's OSI-Ultima9-level bad coding.

Rockstar patched the game by providing a legitimate No-CD crack in order to speed up the game to a playable level in v1.1

I've completely given up on PC gaming because of shit like this. I refuse to buy a new video card and reinstall Windows every year just so I can play a new game.

Re:no (1)

Rayban (13436) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920037)

Reminds me of when I bought Worms 3D ten years ago. The copy protection was so bad I couldn't get it to run no matter what. It just refused to install and refused to go.

I ended up having to pirate the game just to get it running. Unfortunately the no-cd cracks took months, so the software sat unused on my shelf.

Since then I've only bought a couple of pieces of gaming software. It's too much of a hassle to game on a PC - I've given up.

Re:no (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25920213)

I actually went and read the article - and I don't see what the problem is. I guess if the only thing I would worry about is, "how do I make my legal backup copy" - or, if I can't - what is the replacement disc I may have to order free?

Otherwise, leaving "a registry entry and a file" on the machine is NOT A PROBLEM. Just like when you uninstall VMWare workstation and it leaves the licenses in the registry - this is the SAME THING.

I dislike DRM that gets in my way. But this one seems sane enough as long as there is some way to get a replacement or backup of the game.

Fuck you rockstar (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25919577)

Sellout bitches. First M$, now SecureROM.

The game lacked content.

Fuck you guys again.

Hmmm (5, Funny)

Xeth (614132) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919591)

Rockstar says that all versions of the game will feature SecuROM, including digital versions online

Not quite all, I imagine.

Re:Hmmm (4, Insightful)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919653)

Rockstar says that all versions of the game will feature SecuROM, including digital versions online

Not quite all, I imagine.

I don't even play these games. The humor I see in it is that Spore was cracked on September 3rd [kotaku.com] --four days before its launch date. Um, are they really under the impression that one of these schemes might stop the hackers?

At some point you have to acknowledge that you're just annoying your entire fan base to play a cat-and-mouse game with some hackers (that you're losing in an embarrassing way).

Re:Hmmm (2, Interesting)

Goldberg's Pants (139800) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919871)

I think a lot of it is appeasing idiot shareholders. "What are you doing to stop piracy?" they'll say. Rather than say "nothing" they can say lots of cool sounding words and said idiot shareholder gets a warm fuzzy feeling, unaware the schemes are a joke and completely broken.

In fact I wonder if there's any sort of correlation between choosing draconian DRM and the publisher being a publicly held company?

Still, it'd be nice to be able to make tens of thousands of dollars selling something that's broken like Sony do with Securom. What a business! Have people lined up around the block to buy your broken product.

Re:Hmmm (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920209)

So instead of fighting piracy with honest pricing they spend money licensing broken and useless DRM systems. Like the idiot studios that pay for Macrovision on their DVD's Macrovision in all forms has been broken for decades. Yet really stupid studios still pay the licensing for it.

Hey rockstar games, Why not try honest pricing and honest business practices instead?

If the game was $19.95 and came with bonus content in the box the sales would shoot through the roof. Instead they choose to use a price point that encourages piracy and limits sales.

Re:Hmmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25920193)

Don't count out resale. I think this is not about piracy at all, publishers want to kill the second hand market, and use piracy as a convenient bogeyman.

Re:Hmmm (4, Insightful)

karmatic (776420) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920349)

I don't even play these games. The humor I see in it is that Spore was cracked on September 3rd [kotaku.com]--four days before its launch date. Um, are they really under the impression that one of these schemes might stop the hackers?

This does nothing to stop determined piracy - we know it, and they know it. What it _does_ do is deter casual copying. For companies like EA, this offers one really compelling feature - it kills the resale market.

When you can only install on X PCs, it gets a lot harder to resell. Resold games don't make them any money.

Re:Hmmm (1)

Threni (635302) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919657)

Will this be any more effective at stopping piracy than Securom 1-6?

Re:Hmmm (2, Funny)

Strep (956749) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919715)

Possibly, as Preparation H is definitely better than Preparation G.

Re:Hmmm (1)

JonMartin (123209) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920197)

I heard Preparation G made flames come out of your ass.

Better balance? (1)

phorm (591458) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919595)

Has Rockstar gotten a better balance between draconian DRM and fair copy protection here?

Not unless they have a version of SecuRom that doesn't screw up one's legitimate apps/activities like the current versions do...

Re:Better balance? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25919609)

Has Rockstar gotten a better balance between draconian DRM and fair copy protection here?

Not unless they have a version of SecuRom that doesn't screw up one's legitimate apps/activities like the current versions do...

Not even then!

Why keep troubling the legit users? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25919601)

The pirates will have the game cracked and available as a torrent in 24 hours.

Usual car analogy: Forcing legitimate users into a bumper to bumper traffic jam, while users who break the law by blowing past a "do not enter" sign end up being able to travel home at full highway speeds.

Re:Why keep troubling the legit users? (1)

Strep (956749) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919735)

More like forcing people who buy cars to also buy the unwanted undercoating, whereas those who steal them don't pay for either?

Re:Why keep troubling the legit users? (1)

neomunk (913773) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920369)

Yeah, but only if the undercoating would latch onto the road and drag it's demonic fingers along the asphalt slowing your car to a crawl, along with requiring you to change the oil every time you wanted to operate the vehicle.

Mmmm hmmmm, sure do love those factory options.

Meh (4, Insightful)

decipher_saint (72686) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919607)

I'm sure most people don't care (or know) and the ones who do will just grab a "DRM-freed version".

I like to think that DRM is the cause of and not the solution to Piracy :)

Short Answer: No. (4, Interesting)

Ngarrang (1023425) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919613)

"Has Rockstar gotten a better balance between draconian DRM and fair copy protection here?"

No. The fact that any sort of DRM that requires access to some other device out on the interwebz when you install it means that someday when Rockstar gets bought/sued out of existence, you might be able to install the game ever again. Until, that is, someone releases a crack for the scheme.

I have games from my DOS days that I can still freely install. THAT is software freedom. Anything less is not.

Not a hint of irony (3, Funny)

ohxten (1248800) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919617)

There is no hint of irony here. None at ALL.

Re:Not a hint of irony (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25919733)

Every corporate officer from the companies that do this sort of thing should have a pain causing device with remote control imbedded in their bodies. Give a remote control to every customer of their product and connect them to the cell phone system. Fair is fair right?

GTA IV == 100% Fail (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25919637)

Rockstar has totally lost whatever glory they had last gen.

GTA IV is the worst GTA game of the entire series. I don't know anyone who bothered to finish the game - the most anyone I know was my friend who slogged through about 50 percent of the game before finally giving up in disgust.

The graphics are horrendous compared to how good the graphics were when GTA first came out last gen given the amazing scale and what was going on in the game. The story and main character are mind numbingly dull compared to the edgy and hip feel of the previous games.

And those glowing reviews Rockstar paid so much for are pure comedy gold reading material now that the hype has completely vanished for the game.

DRM, no DRM. I don't many people really give a shit.

Re:GTA IV == 100% Fail (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25920071)

You sir, are an idiot. GTA IV rocks. The graphics are outstanding, the new physics engine is mind blowing, the story is brilliant and the main character, Niko, is in my humble opinion the best one yet. A no nonsense regular joe with an acid humour, trying to escape the ghosts of his terrible past all the while being a gun for hire, to try and make ends meet. I felt empathy for the guy from the get go.

The only idiot move on R* part regarding GTA IV was dumping Niko for that shitbag biker guy for the DLC pack.

Re:GTA IV == 100% Fail (1)

tvon (169105) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920355)

From everything I have seen (playing the game), read and heard, you hold a fairly extreme minority view here.

Too bad (1)

4D6963 (933028) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919639)

Too bad, I was planning on exceptionally buying the game, but it looks like once again the pirated version will probably be less hassle than the retail version.

My email to Rockstar (5, Informative)

daybot (911557) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919641)

I have a simple comment on activation in GTA IV PC - I would appreciate if you could pass this to a relevant person / department (preferably not "Deleted Items").

Do I need to activate this game online?

Rockstar: Yes, but to be clear, if you install the game on a computer that isn't connected to the internet, you can perform certain steps to activate your game on another PC with an active internet connection. Once the game is distributed, information on this method will be available on a GTA IV support page.

Some of my favourite games were written decades ago by companies that no longer exist. GTA IV with its unique story line is an all-time classic, but the activation requirement will at some point in the future render the game unusable. It is for this reason that I refuse to purchase any game that requires activation.

Thank you for your time.

Xbox 360 Ruined GTA IV (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25919961)

Really dude, give it a rest.

The game is garbage. It was heavily gimped to fit on the 7 gigabyte 360 DVD format and no standard harddrive and the graphics are shit thanks to being downgraded to run on the weak 360 graphics hardware.

Development of obviously a mess when you had Rockstar developers continually complaining about what a nightmare they were having dealing with the 360 hardware and development tools.

And regardless of the 360 nightmare the main character and story is the lamest of all the GTA by a huge margin. GTA IV is the type of crap you would expect to happen when a company farms out development to another small no name studio to save development expenses.

Re:Xbox 360 Ruined GTA IV (1)

daybot (911557) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920023)

...the main character and story is the lamest of all the GTA by a huge margin. GTA IV is the type of crap you would expect to happen when a company farms out development to another small no name studio to save development expenses.

I found the story had more depth and was more engaging than the others.

It was heavily gimped to fit on the 7 gigabyte 360 DVD format and no standard harddrive and the graphics are shit thanks to being downgraded to run on the weak 360 graphics hardware.

Who said anything about the 360? I have the PS3 version - it's not my fault you bought a sucky console ;)

Re:Xbox 360 Ruined GTA IV (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25920207)

I, for one, found the storyline and characters much more likeable than any previous ones. Niko is just a regular guy with a troubled past, trying to get away. Take CJ, from San Andreas, for example: a wannabe gangbanger that ends up storming airplane carriers to steal a jump jet, while sinking a flotilla in the process, crashing planes full of aliens, raiding military bases (alone against hundreds of heavily armed soldiers, to steal jetpack for an old hippy dude, or owning a casino with the chinese mob, or singlehandedly wiping out entire gangs (hundreds of gangbangers). Please!

If you want that kind of crazy, then go buy Saints Row 2, and then come back to complain about the graphics, animation, shitty storyline, shitty character, mind numbingly dull character customization and overall poor gameplay.

I say finally RockStar struck gold with IV, in every aspect -- storyline, characters, gameplay, graphics, physics. It's a refined, polished game, more serious than the previous iterations. Which is a good thing, seeing as most of the players of the last installments are now well on their late 20's/30's, so they probablu want something a little less childish. In my view, IV
  only lacked a few things to be perfect: police bikes, police women, bicycles and a silenced pistol. Oh, and the damn fingerless gloves :P Yeah, and a mission to bust Gerry out of the joint, that would have been awesome.

Re:My email to Rockstar (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25920241)

You could go further to add:

As an avid computer user, I am constantly switching between computers or upgrading to newer ones. I find that games with a limited number of activations quickly are quickly shelved permanently as computers get upgraded or retired.

They just won't learn. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25919661)

The companies will not learn unless we do not USE it. Don't pirate it. Don't buy it. And most certainly, don't INSTALL it.

USB Key? (1)

MazzThePianoman (996530) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919725)

Why not use something like iLok which is essentially a USB key that stores your licenses required to run certain software?

Re:USB Key? (1)

Txiasaeia (581598) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919809)

Dongles (which is what you're talking about) are easily bypassed by crackers. They have been for yeeeaaarrrsss -- AutoCAD, for instance, used them in the last century.

Re:USB Key? (1)

Free the Cowards (1280296) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919995)

Everything is easily bypassed by crackers. You're probably aware of this, but it's worth pointing out to the readership at large.

You can't crackproof your software. You can't even really make it crack-resistant. No matter what protections you take, your software will come up against some guy who lives in his mom's basement, has a dozen hours a day to spend on the problem, who knows more about cracking software than you ever could, and most importantly who thinks that cricking your stuff is fun. And he will win.

Re:USB Key? (1)

daybot (911557) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919877)

Why not use something like iLok which is essentially a USB key that stores your licenses required to run certain software?

That's a dongle - typically used to protect software priced at least $2000. They're expensive - my previous employer paid $40 per dongle, and the protection they provide is by no means unbreakable. Dongle protection also rules out instant download purchase.

The point? (2, Insightful)

4D6963 (933028) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919741)

What's even the point of this protection? All it's supposed to protect will be cracked before you even get to put the DVD in your computer. So, what's the point at all?

Re:The point? (2, Insightful)

tftp (111690) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919797)

What's even the point of this protection?

Shareholders say "Do something!" and so they do something. Doesn't have to be effective, though, but works great as a "feel good" measure.

Re:The point? (1)

Shados (741919) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919955)

Its to stop casual piracy. That is, uncle Bob McJoe buys GTA4, gets asked by cousin Timmy DeMoron if he can install it on his new lap-top. Bob says "sure!", they do so, and bang its useless without the disk (or whatever). Thats first.

Second, its to delay the release of cracked versions as much as possible. While I won't debate if it is true or not, the logic behind it is that games sell the most on day 1. So even if you delay the cracked version by a few HOURS (and that includes a few hours for it being leaked), they feel that they gain back some sales. If they can somehow manage to prevent the game being cracked until launch, the gain is supposingly fairly significant.

Thats all its supposed to do. Delay the inevitable by a few hours/days (including delaying the leaks), and stopping people from casually sharing the game without any effort, to deter the laziests among us.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Better Questions (2, Insightful)

Imagix (695350) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919767)

Why didn't they ask more interesting questions? From the article: "Having copy protection allows us to protect the integrity or our titles and future investments". Why wasn't the question asked: "If this is so important, why haven't you used a copy protection method that actually works, ie: one which isn't cracked within days of release, if not before release"?

Re:Better Questions (4, Informative)

Joce640k (829181) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919863)

Simple: Because the person asking the "questions" is a shill.

Well... (5, Insightful)

Spad (470073) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919769)

I'm not a fan of having additional crap like GFWL & This Rockstar Games Social Club, whatever the hell that is, forced upon me during game installs but the real question for me is whether or not it'll let me run Process Explorer (Which long since replaced Task Manager for me) and play the game at the same time (I'm looking at you, Bioshock, amongst others).

Also, why screw over the customers using Steam by including SecuROM? Steam *is* a copy protection mechanism in that restricts the game to a single user and it's not easy to duplicate a legit copy to another Steam account (Harder than downloading a cracked copy anyway). I had enough bad experiences with StarForce to be wary of anything that installs hard-to-remove driver hooks to control application usage.

Feel good security (4, Insightful)

girlintraining (1395911) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919803)

I think people may be missing the human side of the problem. Let's say your an engineer and your manager comes to you and says "zomg! piratez! they r eatin ma soupz!" And being that you're the guy they're paying the big bucks to impliment features, it falls to you to stop people from "pirating". Now, being an engineer you know that there's no way to keep a game from being copied, but your boss is frothing at the mouth and pseudo-geek talk is coming out of his mouth while he runs through the office with a stack of trade magazines -- so you have to do something. So you call up Xyzzy company and tell your boss to pay them a lot of money and the problem goes away. Your boss collapes on his desk in a deep sigh of relief, signs away several million dollars, and -- blammo, SecuROM.

It's called "feel good security". It's the same kind of security you run into in large corporations. You know, you have to use a randomly generated 18 character alphanumeric password and it changes every 90 days... which is great except that when you go to do your timesheets you have to enter your LAN password... which goes over the wire plaintext encapsulated in an HTTP POST query. Oops. Also, because not everybody's memory is so great, it becomes common practice to keep the 18 character passwords written on sticky notes.

This is the true genesis of DRM... Ignorance and management fretting over money. It will be viewed as good as long as they "save" more money than it "costs" them.

Re:Feel good security (4, Funny)

fm6 (162816) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920335)

your manager comes to you and says "zomg! piratez! they r eatin ma soupz!"

My manager hardly even talks like that. On the other hand, my cat. . .

PC gaming just needs to change (2, Interesting)

bhunachchicken (834243) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919875)

The main problem with buying a PC game is that you're pretty much stuck with it.

What I mean by this is: if you buy a game for a console, you can be assured that if it turns out to be a bag of shit, you can take it back to where you bought it and either get store credit or just exchange it for something else.

You can't do this with PC games (not to my knowledge anyway). Once you've bought it, it's with you forever.

The risk involved in buying a game to play on your computer is far to high - It might be crap, it might not run properly, it might not run at all. There's too much risk.

I think what PC games really need is some sort of subscription system, whereby the user will pay a certain amount of money per month or year to download a set number of titles at any one time (let's just say 3 titles). Effectively you'll be renting the games, rather like when console gamers trade in their old ones to buy new ones.

Once you're bored of the game, you just revoke your lease on it and then get a different one instead. The data could stay on your hard drive in case you change your mind (and also so you don't have to download 6GBs each time you want to play).

Doing so would eliminate a great deal of the risk attached to buying a game that basically turns out to be rubbish.

(oh, and by the way - GTA4 is shit. That and Devil May Cry 4 are the worst games I played this year. You'll not care for either.)

Re:PC gaming just needs to change (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920129)

You can't do this with PC games (not to my knowledge anyway)

What kind of country do you live in? Here you can return anything to the store within 28 days as long as you return all of the original packaging. The most they can do is make you pay a small restocking fee.

Re:PC gaming just needs to change (1)

theheadlessrabbit (1022587) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920265)

but you can return them, it just takes some effort.

take a print out of a screen shot of the programs EULA, the part where it says something along the lines of:

YOU AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS EULA BY INSTALLING, COPYING, OR OTHERWISE USING THE SOFTWARE. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE, DO NOT INSTALL, COPY, OR USE THE SOFTWARE; YOU MAY RETURN IT TO YOUR PLACE OF PURCHASE FOR A FULL REFUND.

talk to the guy on the floor, he will say 'no, it can't be done',
ask him to get his manager. the part time manager will say 'no'. ask to see his boss.
this guy will make it happen.
you just have to be civil, polite, but firm.

it's worked for me on more than one occasion. also, my friend was a manager at staples, and he was FIRED when he refused to refund some software, and the customer called the big guys at head office.

however, i will agree that its bullshit, the hoops they make you jump through just to play a damn PC game. that's why i pirate everything these days, even if i have a legit copy.

That's what they say... (3, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919929)

Rockstar says that all versions of the game will feature SecuROM, including digital versions online

All versions except the pirated versions that is.

Crap (1)

XaroTheOne (1419555) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919943)

This is crap, someone will crack it. I don't see why It need to be in the Steam versions, but someone will crack it non-the-less.

From '92 - '08. RIP PC gaming. (5, Informative)

LordOfYourPants (145342) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919953)

How things change in just over 15 years.

1992:

Buy Doom after getting to try 1/3 of the game first.

* Be able to play it via dialup modem or LAN for as long as you have the working equipment.
* Be able to sell the game after you're done with it and have that second user have the game be just as usable to them.
* Enjoy playing thousands of user-created maps and mods -- anything from a monster health editor to a porn graphic replacement mod.

2008:

Buy game X.

* Require internet permission to install it. Hopefully you haven't committed the mortal sin of installing it more than three times.
* Require internet permission every time you wish to run the game.
* Require CD checking despite the above.
* Unable to sell the game to people who want something more than a coaster.
* Multiplayer server for Game X goes down after year because Game X 2009 edition is now out. People who still want to play the original Game X via LAN/hosted internet games are SOL and anyone hacking together hosting capabilities likely receives notice from lawyers.
* Have some type of over-zealous security check built into the game mess with your computer, internet connection, or both.
* Deal with an over-moderated/sterile mod community.

Version without DRM easily available (4, Informative)

Sarusa (104047) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919965)

I can guarantee you that copies from thepiratebay.org and btjunkie.org will be shipping without intrusive DRM or sales tax. Fast delivery. Why would you pay extra to get your machine raeped?

Blah blah blah before the dumb replies, I'm not advocating piracy from companies that treat you with respect, like Stardock. I just won't be buying (or torrenting) this game, period, but this will surely increase the number of people doing the second.

And just to be extra petty and remind you what evil bastards they are, whenever you see 'SecureROM', that's Sony just doing what Sony normally does. Screwing unaware legitimate customers.

No thanks (2, Insightful)

mcbridematt (544099) | more than 5 years ago | (#25919999)

I'll stick with my copy of GTA4 for X360. At least I _know_ what I'm getting into DRM-wise and I can sell the game to someone else without any attempt on the part of the game maker to limit my resale right.

The Logic ... (5, Funny)

PPH (736903) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920033)

... of incorporating DRM into any product with "Grand Theft" in the title somehow escapes me.

OH Joy! (3, Funny)

sjames (1099) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920053)

So they still intend to make a mess with their install but they'll graciously provide instructions on how to clean up after them.

They should try walking their dog in someone else's yard. When the inevitable happens, offer to loan the angry homeowner a shovel and just see how happy that makes him.

Piracy is against the law, just like murder! (1)

gandhi_2 (1108023) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920059)

You all phale!

No one caught the irony of:
"You wouldn't steal a car". lol! [wikipedia.org]

copy better than original (1)

postmortem (906676) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920111)

Yes - it is possible. In this case, pirated copy is better than original - and free. No, I'm not calling for mass pirating, just stating the facts. No DRM vs DRM - easy choice.

Rootkit (1)

Psychotria (953670) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920131)

What we need is a friendly rootkit that the other rootkits and DRM hook into that makes... umm I dunno what would happen from that point. Maybe the friendly rootkit can recognise the evil rootkit and rootkit the evil rootkit. Hang on. Delete all that. I'd better sleep.

I play Half-Life 2 on my Linux box w/Codeweavers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25920163)

Thanks to Resident Bush I'm a happy Codeweavers+HL1+Expansions+Orange-Box Steam customer who is playing these games on a Linux system. Forcing the installation of SecuROM DRM over Steam will stop me ever being able to purchase GTA4.

The real question (1)

Sam36 (1065410) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920175)

But does this work in linux? (yes I am seriouos)

The real question (1)

wjh31 (1372867) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920191)

is weather it will beat spore in terms of piratebay downloads

i vote yes

Re:The real question (1)

El Icaro (816679) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920333)

stormy?

Derail Corporate Thinking (1)

SpiritMaster (869780) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920251)

One false belief most customers seem to be under, is that DRM is for the sole purpose of stopping those nasty pirates from swiping their game. Many game companies use DRM like SecureROM to halt the resale and rental of games, which any (honest) game company will tell you is a MUCH larger hit on their profits, than the horrors of piracy that people like EA would have you believe. This is not to say that this justifies using DRM which treats your customers like criminals, but that a better DRM system is needed, to curb these markets. To date the best system I have found is one in use by Daemon Tools, which requires you to log onto their site to generate and download and encrypted key file. There are no install limits, and if you format you computer you simply go to the site a create a new key. This system not only DELAYS (you can't beat them, you know) pirates, but makes the resale of games worthless unless you are the actual owner, and is NON-INVASIVE.

Bioware us one of the few gaming companies trying to create alternative DRM such as code-hooks to delay pirates during the initial release. If they paired that with a Daemon-Tools like key system for their games, they could delay pirates, restrict game resales, and in the process not piss off their customers. Really all this system needs is a website which allows you to register (which all game companies have) and a small program to generate CD-Key based encrypted files which the game EXE will check. Honestly the biggest killer here, is that game companies are too willing to take the easy route and lease out their protection to Third parties, who make money selling to the studio themselves, and not the game purchasers. There is no shortage of good ideas out there for companies who are willing to listen and retool their DRM model, but more and more big corporations like EA are buying up smaller studios and slapping their 'one size fits all' DRM onto them.

Enough is enough. (1)

Tei (520358) | more than 5 years ago | (#25920293)

I will not buy the game, but I will play the warez, because I don't want to infect my computer with a rootkit.

It's a simple solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25920297)

They have lost another sale from me then I refuse to have my pc infested with unwanted processes and restrictions.

Next they will be wanting every pc to have a coin slot I've the feeling pc gaming will soon be dead completely.

On the bright side though most of the older games are better anyway. Deus Ex or Xcom anyone.

Just pirate it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#25920319)

I'm gonna just download it and use this as an excuse as to why i'm not paying for it. Wouldn't have paid either way anyways.
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