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Musicians Protest Use Of Songs By US Jailers

samzenpus posted more than 5 years ago | from the I-hurt-you-you-hurt-me dept.

United States 210

The guy who wrote the Barney "I love you" song, and other musicians are banding together to protest the US military using their songs as weapons. The campaign has brought together groups including Massive Attack and musicians such as Tom Morello, who played with Rage Against the Machine and Audioslave. It will feature minutes of silence during concerts and festivals, said Chloe Davies of the British law group Reprieve, which represents dozens of Guantanamo Bay detainees and is organizing the campaign.

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210 comments

Can I protest them back? (3, Insightful)

Moryath (553296) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067373)

I've been tortured by morons blasting their music in my apartment complex and out of cars with overly shaky bass systems constantly. I hereby protest these so-called "artists" and their crappy music.

Re:Can I protest them back? (2, Insightful)

TheRealMindChild (743925) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067999)

It has been a while since I've heard anyone thumping to Barney

Re:Can I protest them back? (3, Insightful)

Moryath (553296) | more than 5 years ago | (#26068073)

You obviously have never been forced to be around toddlers for any length of time. If you're not used to it and/or already emotionally geared towards it, that's torturous enough even without the big gay purple dino (or Tinky Winky etc) to deal with.

Re:Can I protest them back? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26068253)

Playing music loudly out of your house eh? Where might I hear this public performance?

-- RIAA

Hmmm (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26067409)

So, what does the "I can do anything I want with my music" slashbot crowd think?

Re:Hmmm (1)

the_bard17 (626642) | more than 5 years ago | (#26069857)

I'm guessing something along the lines of "Your right to listen to whatever you want ends just outside my eardrums."

Re:Hmmm (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26070113)

They're mostly impressed with just how meta and ironic you are. Lets go work out together, then get a smoothy and discuss post-feminism or something!

There's no point to the whole thing (3, Insightful)

77Punker (673758) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067455)

Instead of spending effort tormenting the detainees so that they hate us even more, it seems the time could be better spent re-educating them into lovers of America. We've currently got no reason to keep them there, so at least we could find something remotely constructive to do while this is going on. Then again, our entire prison system is based on locking people away for arbitrary (and long!) amounts of time rather than actually doing anything with those people.

Privitized Prison system... (2, Insightful)

FatSean (18753) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067525)

...I'm sure the contractors supporting Gitmo are making bank.

Re:There's no point to the whole thing (2, Insightful)

Fluffeh (1273756) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067579)

I don't see any reason for the post above to be modded "Troll". You can't just call someone a troll because you disagree with them.

Side note: Re-educating them into lovers of America? LOL! Why not just leave them be and send them home to their families. They would probably appreciate that more than any re-education program about how good America is. Not to be rude to American's, but it's just not all about you all the time :)

Re:There's no point to the whole thing (1)

77Punker (673758) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067705)

I wasn't being entirely serious there, but it's a better idea than blasting shitty music at them. The point of the post was that any idea is a better idea than what they're doing now.

Re:There's no point to the whole thing (1, Offtopic)

philspear (1142299) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067609)

I see you got modded as a troll. It must be because you spoke out against the extremely popular gitmo situation, or because you insulted the venerable prison system guards who frequent idle slashdot.

Re:There's no point to the whole thing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26068275)

I love big brother!

Re:There's no point to the whole thing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26069541)

That's what she said!

"Torture." Right. (1, Insightful)

CannonballHead (842625) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067465)

I guess we should just not try to extract any information from prisoners. Forget the whole "intelligence" thing. We shouldn't spy, we shouldn't use "torture." If 16 hours of extremely loud rock music (apparently not enough to deafen, though) and 4 hours of complete silence and darkness counts as "torture," people need to visit some other countries more often.

I don't think torture should be used, but I don't think this counts as torture. I guess we should give terrorists a nice cell and good food and hope they feel guilty enough about trying to blow up people that they tell us their secrets, e.g., what is planned for the future?

One other note. It's obvious to me that Morello of RAM isn't particularly upset with the "torture," as he (I presume "humorously" but people don't usually joke about something without meaning some small part of it, at the very least) joked about leveling Guantanamo except for one cell and putting Bush in that cell. Strange thing to say for someone who thinks it is so awfully inhumane. I guess he thinks Bush deserves inhumane treatment, while terrorists who rape, kill, murder, based on religion and political beliefs, deserve humane treatment.

Re:"Torture." Right. (2, Insightful)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067547)

Wow. So you really buy that whole "terrorists under the beds" nonsense. I guess someone has to.

I suppose you think there's an insurgency in Iraq too.

Re:"Torture." Right. (1)

binarylarry (1338699) | more than 5 years ago | (#26069547)

Uh, there WAS an insurgency in Iraq.

Keyword: WAS

Re:"Torture." Right. (4, Insightful)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 5 years ago | (#26069745)

You're talking about the insurgency in the 70's that put Saddam in power right?

Let's get this straight: In 2003 there was an invasion of Iraq by US forces (oh, and a smattering of allies, woo!) Since then there has been an occupation of Iraq by those same forces. One of the first actions of the occupying force was to disband the Iraqi army. Hundreds of thousands of soldiers were told to go home. Their pay severed. For a while they tried to get jobs but, due to the widely publicized incompetence of the occupying forces, there was no jobs to be had. The looting and destruction of both private and public property was tolerated and ignored by the occupying forces. National treasures that had been preserved over millennia were destroyed. Seeing that their country was being systematically reduced to rubble they formed a militia and began fighting to remove the occupying force.

This is not insurgency. If someone invaded your country, fired the government, fired the military and replaced it with nothing you'd rise up and try to eject them too. If you didn't, you'd hardly be a patriot.

Re:"Torture." Right. (1)

binarylarry (1338699) | more than 5 years ago | (#26069809)

I think someone forgot this part:

Keyword: WAS

The worst is over in Iraq. Sorry, if that hurts your anarchofreedomunist leanings.

Saddam wasn't replaced with nothing. Also, they've hired back and trained many of the people in the military that were let go. Iraq has an army. Iraq has a government. Hell, Iraq's government is already playing hardball with our government, which is a good thing really (or a well placed charade).

Re:"Torture." Right. (1)

mabhatter654 (561290) | more than 5 years ago | (#26070007)

whoa there, you're using militia in a second amendment way.... this is Iraq, not the USA, that doesn't apply there.

Funny thing about war is that according to Geneva convention "citizens" don't really have the right to rebuild their society... their GOVERNMENT has that right. According to Geneva, citizens do not have the right to overthrow a government, the Declaration of Independence is not actually a legal document the US government has to follow, just some pretty words. Geneva is all about what GOVERNMENTS with armies can do (remember it dates from precedents from the middle ages, we're all still technically serfs) citizens are "owned" by their boarders. It's illegal to commit war crimes against residents, if they follow all the rules during the war, and while it's a "war". At this time the war is over.. sort of.. because they have a government that is recognized by somebody else, now those militias are just terrorists again..because the new government says so. so it's open season, just like when Saddam gassed the Kurds for rebellion (which was legal, they committed open rebellion just like when Sherman torched Atlanta, and there's plenty of precedent to do the same thing on US soil.. look what we did/do to Indians)

Re:"Torture." Right. (5, Interesting)

77Punker (673758) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067569)

Sleep deprivation can kill. I certainly call that inhumane. Living a life that has no future except being locked in a prison for decades sounds like torture, too. When life is worse than simply being pointless and the mental cost of living another day outweighs the benefits, that's a tortured life. There's plenty of people who live lives like this, imprisoned or not, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing or that America can be proud of imposing this state of life on anyone.

Also keep in mind that these people have been there for years. What new information could they ever give to us?

Re:"Torture." Right. (1)

CannonballHead (842625) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067909)

If living a life that has no future except being locked in prison for decades is torture, then what should we do to criminals? Let them go? Tell them to be good and hope they are? Give them drugs?

Just because you have been there for years doesn't mean you don't have anything new to say, does it? I think you underestimate human abilities of deception.

Re:"Torture." Right. (4, Insightful)

cavePrisoner (1184997) | more than 5 years ago | (#26068205)

"If living a life that has no future except being locked in prison for decades is torture, then what should we do to criminals?"

I don't know. Give them a fair trial and a sentence of some determinable time?

Re:"Torture." Right. (1, Insightful)

CannonballHead (842625) | more than 5 years ago | (#26068239)

And what would be the determinable time for murder, terrorism, rape, etc? In other words, should society hold no crime serious enough that the punishment is as serious as prison for life? Or should punishment no longer fit the crime.

Re:"Torture." Right. (1)

cavePrisoner (1184997) | more than 5 years ago | (#26068419)

To be honest, I don't really care. As long as it is in writing, and subject to the public and courts for oversight. Believe it or not, I support corporal punishment and think it works better in the long term for everyone than the "humane" solutions like prison. I just don't like the idea that the administration has tried to do something out of sight of the public it is beholden to. If we as a people decide that prolonged torture is acceptable for certain crimes, ok. Just pass the requisite constitutional amendment and go for it.

Re:"Torture." Right. (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26068873)

"And what would be the determinable time for murder, terrorism, rape, etc? In other words, should society hold no crime serious enough that the punishment is as serious as prison for life? Or should punishment no longer fit the crime."

Should they be in jail? Let a judge decide. What should be the punishment? Let a judge decide. Or is "terrorism" such a serious crime that we can't allow judges to decide who is guilty of it? Is terrorism so bad that judges can't decide what the sentence should be? Is terrorism such a threat that only the President, the armed forces, and the Department of Homeland Security should decide who goes to jail and for how long?

If the people in Guantanamo Naval Base have done something wrong, charge them with some crimes, bring them before a proper court (like the US Supreme Court for example), and let a judge decide if they've done something wrong. Why not?

Re:"Torture." Right. (3, Insightful)

Falconhell (1289630) | more than 5 years ago | (#26070527)

Why not?

Perhaps because they were sent to gitmo so that US law would not apply, regardless of court decisions since, this was an enclave deliberately created to allow the US to commit acts thaat would be illegal in the US itslef.

Gitmo has destroyed the image the US once had as a country that beleved in fairness and the rule of law.

Re:"Torture." Right. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26069825)

Length of time has nothing to do with what information prisoners have. John Dramesi was imprisoned and tortured regularly in Vietnam, and he was beaten to near-death multiple times in addition to several other horrible acts without revealing critical information. Look him up sometime or read his book "code of honor". he's an amazing man and is just one example of how long people can hold out under duress.

Re:"Torture." Right. (1)

mabhatter654 (561290) | more than 5 years ago | (#26070123)

Much of the music is picked specifically for sleep deprivation, played loud, all the time, to prevent sleeping, much of it is also considered religiously offensive, if they understood english. As "american rock music" they are forcing them to commit sin, according to Islam, every day.

What if we got anti-abortion activists (religious terrorists sympathizers) pregnant just so we could abort them to harvest stem cells as part of their prison "work"? It's just a medical procedure to save lives like donating blood right?

Re:"Torture." Right. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26067571)

You have some faulty assumption there that everyone in Guantanamo is guilty. No wonder Morello's comment appears to have stuck up your ass so much. Not to mention you don't even see the irony of your statement as it would appear to Morello.

Miranda rights, asshole (2, Insightful)

Rix (54095) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067601)

No, you don't get to extract information from prisoners, or anyone else.

Yes, you do have to give "terrorists" a nice cell and good food, as well as a speedy trial by a jury of their peers.

Anything less justifies retribution, whether you call it "terrorism" or not.

Re:Miranda rights, asshole (-1, Troll)

CannonballHead (842625) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067925)

Um. Their peers? Who are their peers? Other terrorists?

So, in a humane country, the jury consists of fellow criminals? In other words, justice (or, shall we say, the correct response of law-enforcers to lawbreaking) is now defined by those who have broken the law?

They're called defendants, asshole (1)

Rix (54095) | more than 5 years ago | (#26069335)

They're not criminals (or "terrorists") unless you convict them of something. What part of "presumption of innocence" do you not understand?

Re:They're called defendants, asshole (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26070437)

They're not criminals (or "terrorists") unless you convict them of something. What part of "presumption of innocence" do you not understand?

If someone commits a crime they're a criminal whether or not they are convicted.
If someone commits an act of terrorism they are a terrorist whether or not they are convicted.

"Presumption of innocence" is a legal concept pertaining to the trying of criminal cases which you apparently do not understand.

Re:Miranda rights, asshole (5, Informative)

Moryath (553296) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067953)

Miranda rights are for people picked up by the police, in a non-war zone.

They do not apply to enemy military personnel, especially enemy personnel wh fail to uphold their Geneva Convention responsibilities to dress in military uniform and carry their weapons openly (so as not to cause problems in telling military and civilians apart) who are picked up either (a) in the act of sabotage or (b) on the battlefield itself.

Finally: spies have NO rights, even in the Geneva Conventions.

Live and learn. If you ever learn.

Re:Miranda rights, asshole (2, Insightful)

Darundal (891860) | more than 5 years ago | (#26068361)

Great, well thought out comment that assumes that everyone in Guantanamo deserves to be there.

Re:Miranda rights, asshole (1)

incripshin (580256) | more than 5 years ago | (#26068515)

He also did not mention the prisoners in Guantanamo. If somebody starts saying that Miranda rights ought to apply, they need to be set straight.

Re:Miranda rights, asshole (1)

MikeBabcock (65886) | more than 5 years ago | (#26068855)

Guantanamo isn't for spies, or prisoners of war, the US Government doesn't want to give the people they pick up the rights of the latter, and they have better places to send the former.

Re:Miranda rights, asshole (1)

Kaemaril (266849) | more than 5 years ago | (#26069013)

Just to be pedantic, the Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War does not require that all combatants wear military uniform, or even that they carry their weapons only. Article 4, which identifies those who fall under the POW category, is more nuanced than that.

There are no military personnel in Guantanamo (5, Insightful)

Rix (54095) | more than 5 years ago | (#26069311)

They're all civilians.

The ones picked within the US can be charged in a civilian court, deported, or both. That's it.

Those picked up on the battlefield have done absolutely nothing wrong. If you invade a country, the civilians there have every right to attack your soldiers. That's war, sweetheart.

If you don't like it, don't wage it. Imprisoning people for defending their homes is not on.

Re:There are no military personnel in Guantanamo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26070175)

Those picked up on the battlefield have done absolutely nothing wrong. If you invade a country, the civilians there have every right to attack your soldiers. That's war, sweetheart.

So you would prefer killing people encountered in a war zone to imprisoning them?

Re:There are no military personnel in Guantanamo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26070699)

If that's "war, sweetheart" that can we dispense with the Geneva Conventions altogether? They make no sense to me if the only one who must follow them is the United States.

"The ones picked within the US can be charged in a civilian court, deported, or both. That's it."

No, there are two more options.

1. By Geneva, they can be killed on the spot.
2. They can be turned over to their own government for processing. Believe me, local processing can end up being a lot more traumatic.

Insist on civilian court you guarantee some mix of 1 and 2. Is that better?

Re:Miranda rights, asshole (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26069753)

The right to not be tortured does not derive from any law. It is a fundamental right of any human being, beyond any law.

Re:Miranda rights, asshole (1)

sjames (1099) | more than 5 years ago | (#26070595)

Actually, you're either proper military personnel entitled to the Geneva Convention, of you're a civilian entitled to Constitutional treatment (at least in the U.S. or by U.S. troops.

The whole 'unlawful combatant' dodge as well as claiming that Gitmo isn't the U.S. (whose flag do they fly there then, Cuba's?) is a shameful sophistry by a shameful administration.

Re:Miranda rights, asshole (1)

stephanruby (542433) | more than 5 years ago | (#26070649)

Finally: spies have NO rights, even in the Geneva Conventions.

The problem with this reasoning is that there is no due process to determine if someone is a spy, or not. For instance, a Canadian citizen was kidnapped in Canada (with the complicity of the Canadian authorities) and tortured for the better part of three years, all because he happened to have the same full name as the guy our CIA people were looking for. And in Pakistan and Iraq, the intelligence was initially so poor, that they started giving away $5,000 rewards for information leading to the arrest of insurgents. And we now know, that those rewarded denunciations were sometimes the only proof needed to get someone arrested, tortured, and detained for a number of years, without any other shred of evidence whatsoever.

So even if you want to be able to treat those detainees as guilty terrorists/spies/insurgents/whatever. We still need some kind of due process to decide whether those people are actually the real people we're after, and not just some innocent third party who was just handed to us because of some political reason, or for some profit motive.

Re:Miranda rights, asshole (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26069087)

Prisoners of war (EPW's) have NEVER been given those rights, under any circumstance, by any political party.

You might want to read up on your Laws of Land Warfare.

If enough people like you get in charge, and we fight all wars like cops and lawyers, then soon enough we will lose. Then all your horse shit platitudes can be laid to rest.

Re:Miranda rights, asshole (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26069319)

a person's right to humane treatment ends when they decide to stop abiding by society's rules. Put them in prison, yes, a decent, clean place. Feed them a nutritious diet and do not punish them. Send them to trial. If they are found guilty, THEN when they are proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be people who no longer wish to abide by society's rules, and they are not longer worthy of anything above the basic necessities of life and should be punished for what they did. treat them well while there is doubt, punish them in equal measure to their crime if they are guilty. Terrorist who kills 300 people, well you can't kill him 300 times, but I personally think in that case you just torture them once to find out what they know, and if they cooperate, you put a gun to their head and be merciful, if they don't, you torture them until they wish they were dead 299 times, then if they still don't answer, kill them on the 300th. Penalty fits the crime.

Re:"Torture." Right. (3, Informative)

pizzach (1011925) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067651)

Constant loud music wears people down phycologically. 16 hours mean that just about every waking hour is filled with this music. When they try to sleep, all there is is ringing.

Have you even heard of people who lost their hearing by shooting guns through the years without any kind of ear protection? A subset of this group end up killing themselves because they can't take the severe tinnitus ringing anymore.

Now come on. You may not think it's torture when idly thinking about it. But there must be SOME reason they are doing it.

Re:"Torture." Right. (1)

CannonballHead (842625) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067971)

Yes, I completely agree that there is some reason they are doing. I decline to agree that it's simple brutality and a love of torture. Are there people like that? Yes. I bet a lot of them play games like GTA, heh.

Yes, I know people lose their hearing by shooting guns, etc. And by going to rock concerts. And I know about tinnitus, members of my family have it... and not from rock concerts.

Here's my question to you. How do you propose to protect your country from those who plot against it? How do you discover plots? Hope for some of them to repent and come tell you willingly? Interestingly, a lot of the "torture" that goes on is psychological but completely verbal.. threats of family disowning them, for example, appears to work well with certain religious groups. E.g., threaten them with publically declaring that he converted to Christianity or something like that, which would cause him to be disowned by everyone he knows. Is that inhumane also? I suppose you could contemplate suicide based on that, too.

Re:"Torture." Right. (5, Insightful)

adolf (21054) | more than 5 years ago | (#26068395)

Hey, guess what? As long as we're being stereotypical, please allow me to assert that you must be from the South, being that you're inbred as far as you are. You just might be a redneck if your family tree has no branches. I'll bet your sister is your favorite aunt, and the lazy-eyed kids you two have together must sure be special. Et cetera, and so on, and so forth. Ad nauseum. Ad infinitum.

But I digress.

We don't really have any evidence that these folks have done anything wrong, because if we did, we'd have a trial for them, and THEN we'd have locked them up forever, or for however long their crimes may warrant. Meanwhile, there's no reason to torture anyone. Whether it be water-boarding, thumbscrews, humiliation, or simple sleep deprivation brought on by 16 hours of loud music followed by a 4 hour respite of quiet, it's torture.

And, as a GTA-playing tinnitus sufferer, torture is just not how I want to see things done. This is not the America that I want to be a part of.

You don't like being called inbred without any supporting evidence, I'd guess. And I don't like jailing terrorists without a public trial.

To each his own, I suppose. I'm all for defending the country, but without limits on how we treat all humans, we're no better than any other offensive, fear-mongering, repressive society of the past.

I want to be remembered as having lived during a time of greatness and good virtue, not insolence.

Re:"Torture." Right. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26069671)

Good post! Whoever moderated you "Flamebait" is truly an idiot. Yes, I hope you read this, moderator.

/waits for my own Flamebait moderation!!!

Re:"Torture." Right. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26070539)

I want to be remembered as having lived during a time of greatness and good virtue, not insolence.

A time of greatness and good virtue? When was there ever such a time?

What you want is not relevant. Reality is that in this world of 6.7 billion people you are nobody. In all likelihood you will not be remembered unless you manage to go out and cause as much human misery and cause as many people to be killed as did your namesake.

Re:"Torture." Right. (1)

pizzach (1011925) | more than 5 years ago | (#26068551)

If it is torture, it should be called torture. It becomes a lot easier to regulate it if the word is not always being avoided. If the people of the United States feel torture is required, at least this would help keep things in line. Given how many Americans likely still feel we should wipe all those Iraqis off the earth for the world trade center incident, I don't think this should be a problem.

But please, I do not want the government lie about it. I already have enough distrust from reading the conspiracy theories on slashdot. Worse yet, lying will also bring more global distrust on the United States which I do not think any more is needed of.

Re:"Torture." Right. (3, Insightful)

vux984 (928602) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067725)

"I guess we should just not try to extract any information from prisoners. Forget the whole "intelligence" thing. We shouldn't spy, we shouldn't use "torture." If 16 hours of extremely loud rock music (apparently not enough to deafen, though) and 4 hours of complete silence and darkness counts as "torture," people need to visit some other countries more often. "

Do you think it would be acceptable to subject YOU to this treatment?

After all YOU are as guilty as they are. Neither of you have even been charged with a crime, neither of you has been convicted of anything, indeed the only real difference between them and you is that THEY are in gitmo and you aren't.

Are YOU willing to trade places with them?

After all, a lot of them are as innocent as you.

Perhaps we should try and "extract" intelligence from you for a few years, and see if you think its still a good idea.

Re:"Torture." Right. (2, Insightful)

lysergic.acid (845423) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067813)

you need to work on your reading skills. the prisoners aren't being put through just 16 hours of loud music and 4 hours of silence.

prisoners are being locked up without due process and subjected to physical and psychological torture for weeks, months, or even years. sensory deprivation is known to cause psychosis and potentially permanent damage to an individual. and as if the psychological abuse wasn't enough, the prisoners are also being held in stress positions meant to cause pain and/or injury to detainees for up to 2 days at a time.

and even if you have no concern for due process and human rights, torture has been proven to be a very poor way of obtaining accurate information. people will confess to crimes they didn't commit while subjected to torture. so what makes you think that "intelligence" gathered through torture would be of any value?

Re:"Torture." Right. (4, Insightful)

Suicyco (88284) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067815)

What "terrorists"? What, exactly, have the "terrorists" done? Who do they rape, kill and murder? Where and when is this happening?

Well, ok, the us army rapes and murders people based on religious and political beliefs. We call it war.

But these people in cuba? Do you know what they have done? What have they been charged with? What crimes did they commit? Do you even know who they are, where they come from, or what is being done to them?

NO, you dont. But its ok, they are "terrorists." Because the tv told you so.

Bush IS a war criminal. By any modern, humane definition of the term, by the UN's own definition. We hung Saddam. We hung the war criminals tried at Nuremberg.

I just love this new term, "terrorist" it is so meaningless and vague. Lets hope someday you are tagged with it and then we'll see where you stand.

You see, murderers and rapists are tried and sentenced, in any country. These poor people are not charged with any crime, are not sentenced to any punishment.

Yet sick stupid motherfuckers like you continue to sit by while it happens. Hopefully someday you will know what its like. Hopefully.

Universal Declaration of Human Rights (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26070655)

Today was the sixtieth anniversary of the signing of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights [wikipedia.org], which makes your point even sharper. Sixty years ago people across the globe had the humanity and decency to declare that humans have inalienable rights, not to be deprived by any individual or government. Today there are still people -- Americans, even -- who believe that the need for governments to extract information trumps the rights of the individual. Is this what we've become in sixty years? A culture of guilt by association, xenophobia, and cruelty?

Re:"Torture." Right. (4, Insightful)

Free the Cowards (1280296) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067941)

If 16 hours of extremely loud rock music (apparently not enough to deafen, though) and 4 hours of complete silence and darkness counts as "torture," people need to visit some other countries more often.

You disgust me. The United States of America is supposed to be a shining beacon of light to the entire world. But you're fine with this sort of abuse as long as we're better than Egypt or North Korea? Screw being a beacon unto others, at least we're better than certain squalid dictatorships!

Re:"Torture." Right. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26067961)

The 'Idle' comment box is too narrow for me to fit what I really think of you, so I'll leave it at "I'm glad that the job of deciding what counts as torture is left to people with a more comprehensive understanding of the issue than yourself."

Re:"Torture." Right. (1)

WiiVault (1039946) | more than 5 years ago | (#26068125)

I think Tom Morello was making a commentary (non-literally) saying that Bush is as much a criminal, and perhaps more than the men in Gitmo who have never even been tried for a crime. Sure many of them are guilty, but we know for certain Mr. Bush is.

Re:"Torture." Right. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26068655)

yeah, because self defense is such a crime.

you're either a liberal or one of those muslim bitches. go fuck your allah in the ass fucking faggot muslims.

Re:"Torture." Right. (1)

WiiVault (1039946) | more than 5 years ago | (#26069331)

Yes because Iraq attacked us on 9/11 right, right? I know God loves us all, but I bet he is a bit ashamed of you. Educate yourself and learn to be tolerant, otherwise you will still be the same Anonymous Coward you are right now, afraid to even let your identity be known when you spew this foul shit. You are surely a very unhappy person.

Re:"Torture." Right. (1)

Bemopolis (698691) | more than 5 years ago | (#26068331)

I guess we should give terrorists a nice cell and good food and hope they feel guilty enough about trying to blow up people that they tell us their secrets, e.g., what is planned for the future?

Yes, we should. And do you know why? BECAUSE IT FUCKING WORKS. That is, unless you think that you, as a /. commenter, have more experience in the field than an actual interrogator [washingtonpost.com]. Although, given that you are a /. commenter, if you did believe that I shouldn't be a bit surprised.

Re:"Torture." Right. (2, Insightful)

MikeBabcock (65886) | more than 5 years ago | (#26068835)

"suspected" terrorists.

Guantanamo has had to let huge percentages of its prisoner population go because they weren't terrorists. There's no proof that any of the rest will ever be convicted of anything either. Your problem is you believe the government and military are only torturing guilty people. By that logic, lets torture everyone in south-east LA, there's a higher percentage of real crime happening there per capita than Guantanamo.

Re:"Torture." Right. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26068857)

Stop watching 24.

Re:"Torture." Right. (1)

Gruff1002 (717818) | more than 5 years ago | (#26068905)

There is a Judge in Colorado (forget which county) that sentences people guilty of disturbing the peace, primarily kids with to loud music in cars or otherwise, to listen to two hours of the Barney song and Barry Manilow and caps it off with public service.

Re:"Torture." Right. (4, Insightful)

Red Flayer (890720) | more than 5 years ago | (#26068931)

I guess we should just not try to extract any information from prisoners. Forget the whole "intelligence" thing. We shouldn't spy, we shouldn't use "torture."

Fuck that. We shouldn't be imprisoning people just to gain intelligence. Prove a crime was committed and punish them, or do not detain them. To do otherwise runs contrary to the entire set of principles on which the USA was founded.

Re:"Torture." Right. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26069507)

Put someone's head inside of a bell
And ring it
Eventually,
He will go insane

IS THERE ANY ESCAPE FROM NOISE?

P.S. your post indicates you are utterly ignorant of interrogation methods and should no longer opine on them

Re:"Torture." Right. (1)

mabhatter654 (561290) | more than 5 years ago | (#26069883)

except none of the "residents" of gitmo are actual terrorists by the army's own admitting. Most were "enemy combatants" picked up for shooting at soldiers during the invasion or turned in under "reward" programs as knowing info about the terrorists. Most have learned more intel about terrorist ops inside gitmo and from the interrigators than they knew on the outside. The majority are just street thugs who were pushed into harassing soldiers by actual terrorists... more dangerous guys will be looting the streets after the next Superbowl. Reality is that they can't let them go because the broke about a dozen US an international laws.. and got zero intelligence from it... worse than that, those guys will go back and be heroes for their cause... and know all the people we are actually looking for to tell them to go hide. Then the failure of the army will be complete.

That said I think this is more about artist royalties. Using the songs in that manner counts as public performance and they are on US property, therefore they need to pay artists for the songs being played. If we're not going to pay the artists that provide tools for war, we could save a bunch of money not paying for expensive planes... paying people to torture isn't cheap, they are generally high priced. If we don't pay them then we won't leave a paper trail either. Besides it's illegal to pay people in Cuba anyway, some of that money may leak out to the Cuban economy.

Here's the solution... RIAA lawyers in Gitmo!!!

Re:"Torture." Right. (1)

Yuuki Dasu (1416345) | more than 5 years ago | (#26070031)

This is basically our ever-so-slightly-sterilized version of The Ludovico Technique from A Clockwork Orange [wikipedia.org]. We're using it against people never convicted, never tried, never even given a chance to explain themselves to anyone who hadn't already dehumanized them to the label of "terrorist". Yes, this is torture.

We should be better than this.

Re:"Torture." Right. (1)

thegnu (557446) | more than 5 years ago | (#26070277)

Well, we could:
1. Follow the Geneva conventions, because we want to not get our asses laughed at when we bitch about people torturing OUR citizens.
2. Not imprison people based on shaky intelligence.
3. Make torture illegal.

Why can't we do things the good old-fashioned way, where you could torture people, and if you got found out, you'd get shit-canned? That would be awesome.

Re:"Torture." Right. (1)

sjames (1099) | more than 5 years ago | (#26070515)

Many tortures don't actually sound that bad or even seem that bad at first. It's the repetition and lack of assurance that it will ever end that makes it torture.

You're also forgetting that none of these people have received a trial. It's nearly inconceivable that out of that many people detained, not one of them is innocent. Those that are innocent have no confession to make and no secrets to keep. Shall we prove we're no more civilized than the Inquisition? Torture them until they make up a confession? I suppose then they'll be imprisoned for lying?

I guess he thinks Bush deserves inhumane treatment, while terrorists who rape, kill, murder, based on religion and political beliefs, deserve humane treatment.

Unless and until found guilty in a court of law, they are alleged terrorists. If nothing else, their presumed innocence calls for humane treatment.

Re:"Torture." Right. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26070617)

So glad you have proof that the Guantanamo prisoners are terrorists. The rest of America is busy scrambling to find that proof.

Re:"Torture." Right. (1)

Falconhell (1289630) | more than 5 years ago | (#26070723)

I think Bush deserves all that and worse. He is responsible for many more deaths than any of the terrorists.

If this was applied to you I suspect you would quickly change your juvenille view of torture.

Lets see the proof of your accusations about the Gitmo inmates, the list of convictions, the evidence- oh thats right there is none.

So you approve of torture of people who are suspected of terroism. without any proof.

Ah Truth, Justice and what used to be the American way.

I LOVE YOU! (3, Funny)

arizwebfoot (1228544) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067505)

I'd go insane if I had to list to the Barney song 15 times an hour 24/7 too!

Re:I LOVE YOU! (1)

LifesABeach (234436) | more than 5 years ago | (#26068601)

I read the partial list of songs, my first reaction was, "what? these are some good tunes, kind of old, but good"; maybe someone like Sony BMG will cut a CD of the songs for the rest of us? But my concern is that the Constitution says no Cruel, or Unusual Punishments. I also think that Bush may have to come up with some coin for the Musicians because how the music was used was via Broadcasting, and if a Bar did this they'd have a great business, but they'd would have to pay some fines. And I didn't read anywhere that GITMO legal staff had this covered...

Torture (4, Funny)

Jason Earl (1894) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067517)

I'm fine with waterboarding inmates as long as no one is actually drowned. I draw the line at Barney's "I Love You" song, though. Subjecting humans to that song is simply too uncivilized.

forget torture (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26067519)

those who count have decided unanimously... keep putting bullets in their heads one by one until one decides that he wants to live enough to speak up. about 20 seconds after his confession put a bullet in that muslim's head too.

FUCK ALLAH, FUCK MOHAMMAD, FUCK ISLAM.

Re:forget torture (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26067605)

sand niggers!

Re:forget torture (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26070685)

Fuck you racist moron. Your solution should be used, but only on you.

Come on, if they REALLY want to torture (2, Funny)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067691)

people, don't play rock music, some of it is quite good. If you really want people to admit to anything, just pipe in the music from any mall this time of year. That many Christmas Carols will drive even the most hardened of souls to tears.

Musicians and Message (1)

Prien715 (251944) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067709)

I feel like an important part of art -- especially music -- is to have some control over its use at sanctioned events/places. Think of your favorite song/artist. If GW Bush wanted to use that song as his campaign song, wouldn't you feel as though the artist were somehow endorsing that campaign? Or if BMW decided to use the song in one of their car ads, isn't the song endorsing their product?

In the same way the above are pay-for-play, the artist has to explicitly give up the right for his/her work to be used in this way. If the army wants to use a song during a large military funeral, they'd need permission from the artist. How is this any different? I can't imagine anyone (other than Toby Keith) wants their music associated with state-sponsored torture.

Re:Musicians and Message (1)

42Penguins (861511) | more than 5 years ago | (#26070571)

"Think of your favorite song/artist. If GW Bush wanted to use that song as his campaign song, wouldn't you feel as though the artist were somehow endorsing that campaign?"

I totally agree. When I first read about Charles Manson, my very first thought was: "How could the Beatles be endorsing that psycho?"

"wrote" the I Love You song? (2, Insightful)

el borak (263323) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067827)

Like all those crappy Barney songs, they just added a few trivial lyrics to a PD song ("This Old Man" in this case).

They also used "Yankee Doodle" and others. One of the reason I used to detest Barney; Sesame Street and Mr. Rogers Neighborhood used real original songs.

Who are you? (3, Funny)

HTH NE1 (675604) | more than 5 years ago | (#26067917)

[blast of loud Van Halen music]

Silence, Earthling! My name is Darth Vader. I am an extraterrestrial from the planet Vulcan!

Re:Who are you? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26068203)

Second Great Depression, or The Greatest Depression?

I am never a grammar, but here on idle...

Greatest would imply that there are several others to compete against.

Greater simply mean that it is larger in size, degree, or some other metric that the contrasting entity.

Sorry about that.

Re:Who are you? (2, Funny)

nog_lorp (896553) | more than 5 years ago | (#26069033)

I am never a grammar either! We have so much in common! I'm also never a syntax or diction!

Win-win, no? (1)

Jay L (74152) | more than 5 years ago | (#26068011)

So... musicians whose songs have been determined by the armed forces to be military-grade weapons are going to protest. And they're going to protest with silence.

What's to complain about?

That's nothing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26069125)

Try 8 hours of server room fans, 5 days a week. Heaven forbid the AC goes out and they bring in the Hollywood-sized fans.

What are the odds ... (1)

bedmison (534357) | more than 5 years ago | (#26069403)

the gov'ment has the correct licensing for the tunes they are using? Last time I checked, ASCAP/BMI gets kind of pissed off when you use a CD you bought at Wally-world in your coffee shop. Something about it only being licensed for private home use. Me thinks Gitmo is neither private, nor home, for anyone there. Ergo, the artists should sue under the notion that the the Gov't is using their IP illegally. Of course, they run the risk of ending up in a cell right next to Osama's assistants, but it might be worth a shot. Might be interesting to see if the RIAA is willing to bite the other hand that feeds.

RATM (1)

pablomme (1270790) | more than 5 years ago | (#26069691)

Correction:

... Tom Morello, who plays [wikipedia.org] with Rage Against the Machine ...

Hmm.. what's with the the idle section and the quote tags?

i don't get you (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26069977)

how can torturing people be funny to you? what kind of society just accepts torture as an everyday part of life? how can you make jokes about it? torture is wrong. pause.... think... repeat.... torture is wrong. as in evil bad terrible.

Music Torture (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26070247)

The closest I can compare it too was years ago during a Paranoia RPG session when the brilliantly sadistic GM insisted on playing the "Happy Happy, Joy Joy" song on repeat during the entire indoor portion of the adventure. To re-create the Computer's optimal "Happy Troubleshooter Environment" (tm)

7 Hours, 41 minutes.

Dear God, the horror...

SOP (1)

Aggrav8d (683620) | more than 5 years ago | (#26070323)

Sue the US Army for playing the song in a public venue without compensating the artists, producers, or record companies. DMCA their asses.

USGov/USArmy Copyright violation? (1)

redelm (54142) | more than 5 years ago | (#26070659)

If I am not mistaken, ordinary phonographic records can only legally be played in private settings, while records for public performance (like radio, malls, etc) need special versions & licences.

The use at Gitmo doesn't sound like "private performances" and sounds much more like "public performances" in the sense they are being done to further the organizations' goals, and not for private appreciation.

The artists involved may well have a copyright violation suit to press. Unlike patents, I do not believe the USGov has a royalty-free use of copyrighted materials.

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