Broadband Access Without the Pork? 412
An anonymous reader writes "Like many consumers nowadays, I find more of my time spent on the internet and various wireless devices (e.g. mobile phone). This has gotten to the point where I basically do not use a landline or cable television anymore, and they are essentially pork on my broadband bill, which further subjects the consumer to all sorts of clandestine fees that aren't disclosed until the first bill arrives and add a non-trivial sum (in my case, nearly 100%) to the monthly rate. However, it seems that all broadband access providers have this stipulation, that an internet customer must first have a basic phone or cable TV service in order to sign on for the internet service. Are there any ISPs that can get around this and still deliver broadband internet service at a competitive rate?"
Yeah, there are (Score:5, Funny)
My neighbors' wi-fi access point provides internet access for me without me having to pay for TV or landline access, like you said. I don't even have to pay for the internet, which I actually use!
I recommend everyone switch to this kind of ISP.
Re:Yeah, there are (Score:5, Funny)
We're getting a strange "limited or no connectivity" problem now.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
You may be onto something. I have never had cable, and I have broadband with Time Warner (used to be something else, but they got bought out). The bill is about thirty bucks and I do not pay for cable, but almost every day around 00:30-01:30, I lose connection for sometimes an hour at a time.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I read "...but almost every day around 00:30-01:30, I lose my connection for sometimes an hour at a time.", and I thought to myself you must have Time Warner cable. Then I read your comment again. Sure enough.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Dammit! So that's why my Internet access has been so slow lately! Does anyone know how to configure WPA2 personal?
Re:Yeah, there are (Score:5, Informative)
AT&T offers the same for DSL, though they don't really advertise it:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071231-att-offers-20-naked-dsl-if-you-know-where-to-look.html [arstechnica.com]
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070618-att-launches-10-dsl-it-hopes-no-one-signs-up-for.html [arstechnica.com]
As always, Google is your friend.
Re:Yeah, there are (Score:4, Informative)
No Comcast does not...
They offer the service, but they tack an additional fee for those who do not subscribe to cable TV that is $2 less than getting basic cable service.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So when you buy multiple services from them, they offer a discount? My word, the nerve, trying to make money like that.
Re:Yeah, there are (Score:5, Informative)
That word, I do not think it means what you think (Score:3, Funny)
No Comcast does not... They offer the service, but...
Strange use of 'not'
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
So the cost for Internet w/
Nope (Score:4, Informative)
AT&T offers the same for DSL, though they don't really advertise it:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071231-att-offers-20-naked-dsl-if-you-know-where-to-look.html [arstechnica.com]
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070618-att-launches-10-dsl-it-hopes-no-one-signs-up-for.html [arstechnica.com]
From the linked article:
Customers must also order phone service to get the budget-priced DSL service; those looking for cheap, naked DSL should look elsewhere.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
AT&T offers the same for DSL, though they don't really advertise it:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071231-att-offers-20-naked-dsl-if-you-know-where-to-look.html [arstechnica.com]
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070618-att-launches-10-dsl-it-hopes-no-one-signs-up-for.html [arstechnica.com]
From the linked article:
Customers must also order phone service to get the budget-priced DSL service; those looking for cheap, naked DSL should look elsewhere.
The first [arstechnica.com] of the two linked articles describes AT&T's "naked" DSL offering. I'm not sure why the GP included that second article (which you quoted). Maybe because it's another deal that AT&T makes "hard to find," but it seems unrelated to the topic.
Re: (Score:2)
I only pay AT&T for DSL and mobile contract, though there's a small code named fee in there somewhere for not having a land line.
The hardest part of getting it hooked up was explaining to the incredulous operator that no, I don't in fact watch cable TV nor do I have any interest in it. (This was two years ago before mayors [youtube.com] and President Elects [youtube.com] were skipping TV and putting their addresses straight on YouTube.)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
At least in Minnesota, Qwest will sell you DSL without a phone. It's a few bucks cheaper than DSL with phone.
Re:Yeah, there are (Score:4, Informative)
It's worth noting that a significant portion of most land-line phone bills is various fees and taxes that will go away when you give up the dialtone -- Qwest charges extra for their "naked" line as well, and when you first look at it the price difference is not significant. But tack on the Universal Access Fee, e911 fee, and all the other sundry fees and taxes on dialtone service and it's actually quite a bit cheaper to drop the phone service.
I don't know that AT&T would be cheaper without a dialtone, I'm just saying it's important to note the non-trivial "other charges" section of the bill when you're comparing the price.
Netshare (Score:2)
Interestingly, if your neighbors had their broadband through Speakeasy you could be doing this on the up and up through their Netshare program [speakeasy.net], because it some cases this probably is a practical solution.
Unfortunately, innovative offerings come through competition, and with high speed broadband moving increasingly toward cable and phone companies' offerings (i.e., cable and fiber) you'll be dealing with local monopolies who have no real incentive to offer you those sorts of options.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Paying for fresh water and sanitation seems quite redundant too. Eew, what unclean, last-millennium atavisms!
You're Welcome (Score:5, Insightful)
The more people I can help without noticing a big hit in performance, the better. So internet service is free, in my neighborhood anyways.
Yes, you can borrow a cup of sugar, too.
Re:You're Welcome (Score:5, Funny)
Yuo do know that you are Evil and causing us to lose the war on terror AND caused the economic collapse? That's what the Cable and Phone companies tell me.
Anyone who shares internet is E V I L
That said, Thanks! I also share it, but I have a captive portal and block all ports except 80. plus, if you dont come and tell me you're a neighbor and give me your mac address, you have to re-agree every hour. Call the phone number on the portal page, come to my door so I can say "hey!" and I'll add your mac to my blessed list.
P.S. what's really fun. if your AP is very busy, run a linux app to sniff the traffic and display all images being loaded. It's a hoot.
Re:Yeah, there are (Score:4, Informative)
I think that's true in many cases. Like I said in reply to the parent, that's why I think the Netshare program [speakeasy.net] my ISP (Speakeasy) runs is cool. The only problems are that a) Speakeasy isn't cheap and b) you then have to get your neighbors interested/convince them it's not some kind of scam.
Re:Yeah, there are (Score:5, Interesting)
It may be cool.
But when traffic is being routed through my home system - when I am the "upstream provider" - there are questions I need answered:
1 What is my legal exposure?
I am betting I do not have protection as a common carrier.
2 What is my financial exposure?
Is my personal liability limited in any significant way?
3 Who is responsible for physically maintaining the service?
I do not want to be the one on the roof in February running coax, replacing in-line amps and antennas.
4 If my own need for bandwidth increases, how long am I obligated to maintain the service?
bigger problem is SPEAKEASY ARE LIARS (Score:5, Interesting)
Speakeasy (Score:4, Informative)
Speakeasy provides me with naked DSL.
Re:Speakeasy (Score:4, Funny)
Speakeasy provides me with naked DSL.
See what I mean? The Internet is for porn!
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Read the thread title, the OP was asking for internet WITHOUT pork.
Re:Speakeasy (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Speakeasy (Score:5, Funny)
Not true of waitresses in restaurants. I think that extra service costs a lot more than $10.
(Sigh) (Score:5, Insightful)
I've long maintained that learning how to ask questions properly is a big part of getting a useful response.
Apropos of which, positing a question that is highly location-specific in a global forum and then not specifying one's location is an excellent way to get no useful responses whatsoever.
Re:(Sigh) (Score:4, Funny)
Re:(Sigh) (Score:5, Funny)
Oh come on! Télébec covers ALL the rural areas of Québec!
Re: (Score:2)
No DSL here either, but they offer high-speed via cable.
Re:(Sigh) (Score:5, Funny)
Re:(Sigh) (Score:4, Funny)
I think it's safe to assume he's in the US, considering that this site is not really very international at all, and that he's talking about the US Federal Subscriber Line Charge.
That said, maybe he's planning to move specifically to stop getting ripped off. Crazier things have happened.
some yes some no (Score:2, Informative)
some broadband places may give you a cheaper rate with such pork but not
all of them require it. Also some dsl providers do offer dry pair (or naked)
dsl, but only if you ask. Some digging may be required on your part.
Try Dry loop DSL (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
AT&T has dry-loop DSL? I'm paing +$10ish for a phone line ($5 through AT&T, $5ish for government 'fees' ... taxes ...), and I was not aware that they would do it without the phone line. I know Verizon did, but didn't know AT&T did.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I got dry-loop DSL through AT&T.
I don't think that means what you think it means. It sounds like you got "naked" DSL. If you were able to get a dry pair out of an RBOC in the last 5 years I'd be seriously surprised. I dry pair is simply a bare copper pair, with no repeaters, from one location to another, usually cross-connected through your local switching station. It's used typically by the alarm monitoring industry (well, not so much anymore, but it used to be) and people trying to use DSL equipment to make a point to point connecti
Re:Try Dry loop DSL (Score:4, Informative)
I live in Arkansas and have the Direct Elite 6Mbps service and my bills are EXACTLY $45.00. http://www.att.com/gen/general?pid=11523 [att.com]
Comment removed (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Move (Score:4, Funny)
No thanks. [weather.com]
ISPs (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
and don't forget teksavvy, canada's net neutrality wunderkinds :)
Verizon Fios if available (Score:4, Informative)
Road Runner (Score:5, Informative)
If your local Cable provider is Time-Warner, you can order Road Runner by itself. I can state this authoritatively, because Road Runner is my current ISP. I pay $45/month (though this is going up to $50 next month) and no additional taxes or fees. I am not paying for cable TV because I am not buying cable TV. This has been my arrangement since 2001.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I can confirm this. I technically go through Earthlink, but they just re-sell RoadRunner service here, and I pay the same rate ($42/mo + tax) as normal RR customers in my area. I've heard that some people with this service end up getting some cable channels for free, but I've never bothered checking.
Re:Verizon Fios if available (Score:5, Funny)
I have Verizon Fios 10Mbps up / 2 Mbps down
The folks on p2p must really love you...
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Verizon Wireless (cell phone) does have the "secret cap", but Verizon FIOS (fiber to the home) does not.
With my 15/15 FIOS connection, I've downloaded 375GB (8% utilization) and uploaded 1887GB (40% utilization) in the past month.
AT&T and DSL without local phone (Score:5, Informative)
In my area and within the past two years, AT&T has decided to begin offering DSL without local phone service. Their highest speed plan is about $10 more than if you get it with local phone service, but even still it is only $45. Two years ago when I looked at Comcast in my area, it would've been $54 at least for me to have internet service alone.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
In my area, AT&T offers to punch you in the face (that is, there aren't enough people around for them to bother upgrading infrastructure to support DSL, so dial-up and satellite are the options; it's hard to complain too loudly, because it is clear that it isn't worth it to them, but that is what those stupid gub'mint fees are for...).
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Is this why Americans are always whining that government is usless? Because they just lay there while they're being raped thinking of liberteria?
Grow some balls.
Re: (Score:2)
AT&T and Verizon are legally required to sell you naked DSL.
Most smaller companies will also offer it (if there are any left!). Speakeasy's expensive, but is supposedly one of the best ISPs around.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Speakeasy is also owned by Best Buy.
No thanks, guys.
Sure (Score:2)
Most telcos will be happy to sell you a T1 line without having to purchase cable TV or phone service.
Some cable providers will sell you internet only (Score:2, Informative)
The cable company I work for will sell you a internet only account. They do however charge you a $10.00 fee on top of your internet bill.
dry loop (Score:5, Informative)
If your area is served by AT&T, ask for a dry-loop DSL line.
it's the same thing, just no dial-tone on the line.
I just got the Elite (up to 6Mbps down/ 768Kbps up) for 35.00 a month.
Teksavvy in Canada (Score:4, Informative)
... offers Dry-Loop DSL for $30 per month, plus the cost of the copper line at around $9.00 a month.
Re: (Score:2)
So, you could have just said:
"Teksavvy in Candada offers Dry-Loop DSL for $39/m"
ISP in Norway (Score:2)
Time Warner/Earth link (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Tethering (Score:2)
I tether using my Verizon Blackberry as a modem. It's only 15 bucks on top of the normal Blackberry plan and allows me to use my laptop anywhere. The EVDO speeds are fast enough to, say, stream YouTube videos without buffering, but downloading large files can be a pain as you'll rarely get a download speed above 75k or so. Still, it's pretty cheap addition if you already have a PDA/Blackberry plan and the mobility is the best thing about it.
Impossible to answer (Score:5, Informative)
I know that both Verizon and Comcast offer no-strings-attached DSL/cable (at least in my area), although Comcast has a surcharge for TV-less internet that slightly exceeds the cost of their $15/month basic cable package, making it slightly absurd.
However this is all a bit pointless as we have no idea where you are and therefore have no idea what ISPs you can subscribe to. Seriously, wtf? There are no global ISPs. If you're being typically US-centric (nothing really wrong with that here) there still are no national US ISPs. So the question is stupid.
Re: (Score:2)
Comcast has a surcharge for TV-less internet that slightly exceeds the cost of their $15/month basic cable package, making it slightly absurd.
Where do you live that has basic analog cable television for $15 per month? Or by "basic" do you mean "lifeline" service that has the local channels and little else?
Brighthouse - Cox (Score:2)
In Orlando, Florida I have Brighthouse high speed - no other services. In Phoenix, Arizona I did the same with Cox - though eventually I picked up their phone service too since it was a good deal, but initially I only used them for internet.
Speakeasy (Score:2)
Not sure if you are in their service area, but Speakeasy offers "One-Link" which is DSL that does not require a landline with a dialtone, only the physical wires.
I've been using it for years and am down to just cellphone + dsl for my telecom bills.
Re: (Score:2)
Verizon DSL and Comcast Cable Internet (Score:2)
VERIZON:
They charge $15 a month for internet. The phone is required since DSL uses the lines, however by downgrading to "pay per call" service I reduced my bill to about $6 a month for the phone. That's $21 total.
COMCAST:
As far as I know they provide internet without the requirement for TV. The internet-only price is $60/month which is still high in my opinion but the speed is good (50 megabit/s). ----- If they did require TV services, I would downgrade to the $10 a month "limited" service which provi
Verizon FIOS (Score:3, Informative)
I've got a deal for you (Score:2)
Internet Only (Score:2)
EVDO from Sprint (Score:3, Informative)
I recently moved into a rural area where I had no options for cable or DSL from my telco, ended up getting EVDO (mobile broadband) from Sprint. Not as fast as cable, but certainly fast enough to be usable. I got the service directly without tying it to a voice plan, so all I pay for is the EVDO service. I then got myself a Cradlepoint router [cradlepoint.com] that let me plug the EVDO modem right into it, becoming as easy to use as a cable modem.
Works really well, speeds similar to DSL. There is a 5GB "cap" but whenever I ask Sprint about it they don't give me the same answer—sometimes I'm told I'll be asked to pay more, other times they say it slides, and I've also been told they have higher-tiered plans but I can't get into one until I exceed the cap regularly. Not sure they know themselves what they're doing. But the service is excellent, and I haven't had any issues with my data usage.
I do. (Score:4, Informative)
I have broadband internet from Earthlink through Time Warner Cable in New York City. No cable TV or phone. I'm happy with it, moderately cheap, run web/email servers, IP technically dynamic but it hasn't changed in a year, etc.
However, don't get Earthlink digital phone. That sucks fucking shit, horrible service, no one can fix anything. They even *lost* our phone number! (Lot of stories about that online if you search.)
Qwest. you can even get "naked" DSL without phone (Score:2)
the only one of the telcos, in fact, that is pleased to do so. better to get SOME money than NO money.
Call Earthlink (Score:3, Informative)
I believe Earthlink has similar agreements with other coax and DSL providers, you should at least give them a call.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Earthlink also blocks SMTP that isn't going to their servers making it a pain to use your non-earthlink email address.
Re: (Score:2)
AT&T doesn't require phone. (Score:3, Informative)
I do enjoy not having to pay a list of regulatory and gov't fees, also.
They can't do that... (Score:2)
in Canada.
Wireless (Score:2)
The only high speed option with competition. I use a local WISP (rapidwave.net) and I don't pay for anything I don't use. It's not as fast as some cable providers, but it's 5/2 so it's not bad. About $50/mo. Most areas seem to be served by a WISP these days, check into it a little and you might be able to find something.
They also provide me with a static IP so I can run server processes. It's a "don't break things" kind of arrangement. If I don't cause problems, they leave me alone to do my thing.
Earthlink (Score:2)
cox (Score:2, Insightful)
Move? (Score:2, Insightful)
100 mb/s internet = 21,90 EUR/month
100 mb/s internet + unlimited telephone (France + EU + US + Canada + Israel) = 19,90 EUR a month
Negative pork?
http://numericable.fr/ [numericable.fr]
Verizon (Score:2)
I have FiOS for Internet only. No phone or TV service on it. Supposedly, if you bug them enough they'll give you dry-loop DSL, aka naked DSL, which is DSL without the phone service.
AT&T are as scumfucky as usual (Score:2)
They say you'll save money bundling mobile, broadband, and phone lines on one bill. Not only has the total sum of the bills gone up, the bills become impossible to debug because support for those three areas are all separate specialists who don't have the authority to make changes on the side that isn't theirs.
I'm not usually a violent man but dealing with these companies causes visions of guillotines and wood-chippers to dance through my head.
DSL with a metered line (Score:2)
If DSL is a viable option then the easiest way to reduce the pork is to get a metered landline without any extra features or long distance service. Even better is to get unbundled DSL but that is rarely available.
Time Warner (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Remember the Roadrunner? That impish character always foiling Wile E. Coyote in those classic cartoons produced by a company called Warner Brothers?
"Roadrunner" is the marketing name of Time Warner's cable modem service.
Yes, Suddenlink (Score:2)
Last I checked it was simply $10 more to have 8Mb/s Internet w/out also having CableTV service.
With the advent of southparkstudios.com, hulu.com, NBC ABC CBS and FOX video on demain, Amazon (free) videos, et al I find myself wondering if I really want to keep Cable TV.
Then I sit back and hit Power and have Instant cable TV w/out having a hot laptop on me and streaming issues. So I think I'll keep it just a bit longer.
"Bundling" (Score:2)
Yes, forgoing the TV would cost you 3 dollars. After an unproductive 10 minutes on the phone with Comcast, who kept insisting that this was a new Bundling deal that would save me money, I made the follow
comcast business class (Score:2)
I'm pretty happy with my Comcast Business Class Cable access. It's $59.95/month for decent speed, a TOS that allows me to run servers, and no cable TV service.
stretching the meaning of pork (Score:2)
Pork means government spending, particulary of a frivolous or unnecesary nature, targeted to gain favour with specific constituents.
It does not mean something I don't want to pay, however unreasonable it may be or how annoyingly bundled with something I want.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
In Israel this is available (Score:2)
My ISP (Hot, with Bezeq for infrastructure) provides my with a cable modem without a phone or a television. Actually, I just bought a phone and signed up with their VOIP plan, but it is available without. The OP does not mention what country he is in, should we assume that he is in AOLand? (for those of use who remember when AOL users did not know that they need to append @aol.com onto the end of their email addresses)
Time-Warner Cable (Score:2)
Verizon (Score:3, Informative)
In South Carolina (Score:2)
Beware "Internet Only" pricing (Score:2)
You don't need to actually watch any of the 12 fuzzy distorted channels you get with the basic cable package to qualify. (Note that in many/most areas, the gover
Sprint Xohm WiMax (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Charter (Score:4, Informative)
...right up until the promotion period ends after 6 months, and $30 a month turns into $60 a month
Re: (Score:2)
As I mentioned somewhere else Numericable, the surviving French cable TV company, sells Internet (100mbps down, 1mbps up) for 21,90 EUR/month with the option of unlimited telephone for the EU, US, Canada, Turkey and Israel for -2 EUR/month extra. (I.E. it's cheaper to have the telephone than not!)