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HP Pushes Open Source For Small Businesses

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the financial-motivation dept.

Businesses 118

ruphus13 writes "HP finally begins to actively push open source in its products. From the post, 'HP has been quirky over the years when it comes to open source. It has been, traditionally, a company that supports open source — especially in larger enterprises... Wednesday, it announced two new open source products, geared to small businesses and educational institutions. HP plans on including its 'Mozilla Firefox for HP Virtual Solution' on more of its business class desktop PCs (to a total of seven models between the HP Compaq dc/dx lines in the US, eight models worldwide). Come December 15th, HP will also offer Novell's SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop on its HP Compaq dc5850 model. The base SLED-equipped model will cost $519, and features the usual open source suspects for the small business setting — OpenOffice, and mail clients such as Evolution.'"

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What, again? (4, Interesting)

Erikderzweite (1146485) | more than 5 years ago | (#26100879)

How many times did they claim Linux support and backed out of it later?

Re:What, again? (4, Interesting)

Anthony_Cargile (1336739) | more than 5 years ago | (#26101007)

Too many times, I'm afraid. They were also supposedly going to offer desktops with Linux around the same time Dell was, and I heard they did but never saw any advertised (or even hidden on their website, for that matter).

You're right, they need to make up their mind or actually stick with what they announce they're going to do.

Re:What, again? (2, Interesting)

theaveng (1243528) | more than 5 years ago | (#26102001)

I took a quick look at what HP is offering.

The $500 PC discussed in the summary only has 512 megabytes of RAM. That won't work with Vista which runs like a snail through molasses, but is it enough to run "SUSE" Linux? Or will that be running slow too?

Re:What, again? (1)

GuidoW (844172) | more than 5 years ago | (#26103201)

The $500 PC discussed in the summary only has 512 megabytes of RAM.

What?! 500 USD for a PC with just 512 MB of RAM? Is this a joke?

Re:What, again? (1)

mysticgoat (582871) | more than 5 years ago | (#26104543)

512 MB ram is probably enough for SUSE in an office setting.

As my second computer, I'm running Ubuntu on an older and slower Compaq that has only 384 MB ram. I use this for general office work (OOo, Firefox, Thunderbird, etc) when I've got my primary computer tied up with a 10 hour photorealistic ray trace rendering. I don't notice any performance difference with office type tasks between these:

  1. Dell 1.6 GHz Pentium 4, 256 KB cache, 1 GB ram, 3200 bogomips (Ubuntu 8.10 stock install)
  2. Compaq 1.0 GHz Athlon, 256 KB cache, 384 MB ram, 2000 bogomips (Ubuntu 8.10 stock install)

Above are reported by cat /proc/cpuinfo rounded to 2 sigfigs

I've never tried to use the Compaq for a tough job like rendering. I expect it would not be a pleasant experience. But its good with word processing, spreadsheets, working up presentations, and so forth.

Re:What, again? (1)

mysidia (191772) | more than 5 years ago | (#26107479)

512 MB ram is probably enough for SUSE in an office setting.

This is good enough for running server software.

But if you're running X, KDE, and OpenOffice, it is clearly best for you to have 1GB of RAM.

Because KDE/Gnome take a lot of memory, and OpenOffice is also a huge memory hog.

So if you are running both, very little is left in the way of RAM for filesystem page cache, and you may actually start paging, which is ok on a server, but on a desktop, this results in a degraded experience.

HP is IBM; IBM is HP (4, Interesting)

reporter (666905) | more than 5 years ago | (#26101315)

HP is just executing the IBM plan for profits: (1) sell services and (2) sell hardware/software at a loss (or for free) to sell even more services.

After Lou Gerstner assumed the helm at IBM in the early 1990s, he re-organized the company to focus on services. He shutdown the division manufacturing desktops. He embraced open-source software like Linux. He turned IBM Semiconductor into a contract manufacturer of ASICs. Today, the bulk of both revenue and profits at IBM are due to services. Gerstner's successor came directly from IBM Global Services.

HP followed in the footsteps of IBM and purchased EDS. Just like IBM, HP fired thousands of employees to eliminate redundancies.

Both HP and IBM remain profitable during this ghastly recession. Sun Microsystems, which failed to significantly grow its services division, may not survive as an independent company.

Re:HP is IBM; IBM is HP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26102005)

(2) sell hardware/software at a loss (or for free) to sell even more services.

I can assure you, HP isn't doing this. We're absolutely making a profit on hardware. This is public information -- hardware, software, and services are all broken out on the balance sheet. Read the annual report.

Re:What, again? (1)

sleeponthemic (1253494) | more than 5 years ago | (#26101719)

Look into my eyes......

Re:What, again? (1)

leuchuk (1430731) | more than 5 years ago | (#26102467)

At least their commitment about printer drivers in Linux works. See the other printer producers and their ideas about markets like Canons "there is no demand for Linux drivers or Canons help" approach (I heard that from a Canon rep). The other thing is that marketing is in every bigger IT business's main job is to produce bubbles and hype - whether they'll be ever able to produce and the deliver the promise, who cares there?

Re:What, again? (1)

mewshi_nya (1394329) | more than 5 years ago | (#26104421)

Brother makes VERY good linux drivers as well.

Re:What, again? (1)

haruchai (17472) | more than 5 years ago | (#26104749)

I hope that they are better than their Windows one.
Those damn Brother MFC drivers are a pain and their USB serial emulation used to prevent Windows from going into Standby

Its gonna suck, and suck badly (1)

kaiwai (765866) | more than 5 years ago | (#26105087)

Mate, its going to suck and its going to suck badly just like every other Linux attempt. If you look at those who claim they support Linux, and provide Linux on their laptops - have a good look at the list of 'pic failure' when it comes to properly supporting putting the laptop to sleep or find the power management is worse than Windows XP/Windows Vista. What Linux requires to get working on the laptop and desktop is serious money - not only spent on hardware support but the quality of that hardware support. There is no use going on about how great the number of hardware devices are supported - if bugger all of them are written to take advantage of the tickless kernel. This goes for any operating system that is attempting to unseat the Microsoft juggernaut. PS> I'd love to see OpenSolaris succeed - too bad it lacks the money, man power and the leadership in Sun to turn it into a success that it could be.

A small step (0)

mysidia (191772) | more than 5 years ago | (#26100945)

But if HP truly wishes to embrace Open Source, they should start open sourcing some of their software.

The OpenView packages, for example.

Re:A small step (1)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 5 years ago | (#26101773)

Why would you want it?

The time spent rewriting and managing the queries for it would be far better spent with an open source, universally applicable set of tools such as Nagios, MRTG, CFengine, etc. I've had difficulty explaining to managers impressed by OpenView demos that the work of configuring it for a site is similar to that of integrating open source tools for the HP machines, and the open source tools are more flexible to make a better map of the network and its services.

Saline pushes for larger (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26100951)

I buy my saline kits from Chase Union Ltd in Movi, Michigan. The cost of a 1000 cc bag of sterile saline, drip tubing, sterile wipes (to wipe down your sac and all around) and catheter needle is with shipping around $25.
You can call them at +01 (248) 348-8191 and ask for item "MF 100" a scrotal inflation kit.

To do the saline, take the bag of saline and put in a microwave for about 5.5 minutes at low heat to warm to a bit above body temperature;about 100 degrees or so. Unwrap the outer plastic packaging and put the saline bag aside. Unwrap the drip tubing which comes with the kit and move the clamping system down toward the end opposite the vial type thing and CLOSE IT SHUT. Take the larger end of the drip tubing and uncap the protective cap........open the warmed bag of saline and remove the clear cap. Insert the drip tubing nozzle into the saline bag opening. Find a curtain rod, pot rack (which i have and use in the kitchen) shower rod or something elevated above you. Hang the bag of saline with the tubing attached and shut off. THEN VERY IMPORTANT. SQUEEZE SOME OF THE SALINE INTO THE VIAL ABOUT HALF WAY -THEN OPEN THE CLAMPING DEVICE AND BLEED ALL AIR OUT OF THE TUBING. YEAH YOU LOOSE A LITTLE BIT OF SALINE BUT THIS IS A MUST. YOU DON'T WANT ANY AIR OR AIR BUBBLES IN THE DRIP TUBING! REPLACE THE CAP ON THE WORKING END OF THE TUBING.

Before hand, while the bag of saline is warming either take a hot shower, or fill a basin or kitchen sink with very warm water sit in it for 4-7 minutes. The idea is to warm your ballsac skin up and let it get loose and hang.

When you have finished warming your sac, and you have the bag of saline (BLED FROM AIR), you are ready to grow.

With your sac still very warm use the wipes provided with the kit to wipe down your cock and ballsac. By the way, you will want an adjustable leather cock ring , nylon rope, or other type of removable cock/ball ring to wrap around cock and ballsac after inserting the catheter needle.

With you sac still warm and wiped down with antiseptics, sit in a chair with a towel underneath. Open the catheter needle don't get pansy here but with one hand, take the catheter needle and the teflon sheath that covers it and WITH THE OTHER HAND TAKE YOUR BALLSAC MOVING YOUR COCK OUT OF THE WAY AND DECIDE ON THE LOCATION OF THE INTENDED CATHETER NEEDLE. YOU NEED TO FOCUS ON THE AREA EITHER TO THE LEFT OR RIGHT SIDE OF YOUR BALLSAC AND UP CLOSE TO WHERE THE COCK CONNECTS. YOU PLACE THE CATHETER NEEDLE RIGHT BELOW THE COCK OR A LITTLE LOWER BUT TO ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER OF THE DARKER SKIN DIVIDING SKIN WHICH IS IN THE MIDDLE OF YOUR SAC.

DON'T GET SQUEEMISH BECAUSE THIS DOES NOT HURT. BUT INSERT THE CATHETER STRAIGHT DOWN CAUTIOUSLY INTO YOUR SAC. MOVE YOUR TESTICLE ASIDE YOU ARE GOING TO GO INTO THE BALLSAC CAVITY NOT THE TESTICLE.

YOU WILL EXPERIENCE A PRICK SENSATION,THEN A POP SENSATION AS THE CATHETER NEEDLE PIERCES THE MUSCLE TISSUE OF THE SCROTUM.

KEEP PUSHING THE CATHETER NEEDLE IN. IF IT GOES IN AND YOU FEEL FROM THE OTHER/OPPOSITE SIDE OF YOUR BALLSAC THAT THE NEEDLE IS THERE, THEN STOP.

Pull out the needle itself leaving the teflon sheath inserted into you sac. Tie yourself (cock and balls) off with some sort of removable cock ring or rope or robe tie or whatever.

Sit down, don' t plan to move around too much for the next 30 minutes - hour. Have your beers/soft drinks or whatever already out of the fridge. You will want to stay idle and focused while you do this.

While sitting, and close to the hanging bag of saline and the drip tubing, remove the protective cover of the end of the drip tubing, connect the drip tubing to the catheter sheath in you sac. THEN START ADJUSTING THE CLAMPING DEVICE OPEN TO ALLOW SALINE DRIPPING TO APPEAR IN THE VIAL UP BY THE BAG OF SALINE. ADJUST FOR AN EVEN DRIP DRIP DRIP FLOW AND NOT A STEADY STREAM OF SALINE.

If the saline doesn't drip at first, try pulling the catheter sheath out a bit until you at first experience a small burning sensation;it goes away almost immediately.
Work on the sheath depth and the clamp until you get a good flow of saline going into your sac.

Don't move around too much......or be cognizant of how much you move around while the saline drips into and starts to bloat out your sac. You can always shut off the flow of saline with the clamp, disconnect and move around take a p, whatever......
If you disconnect, take the small stopper thing that is still attached to the needle and plug the teflon sheath to prevent leakage.

I like to use liquid vitamin E on my sac while it stretching and expanding;you should / can put oil or handcream on your sac while it is expanding. The sac is very stretchable but to expand up to 18-20 inches within an hour or so stresses the tissues,so things need to be lubricated somewhat..

GO SLOWLY.DON'T TRY TO REACH A MAX THE FIRST TIME. GO WITH WHAT YOUR BODY/SAC IS FEELING THEN STOP.

When you have finished doing the amount of saline you want to, feel comfortable with, can accept, close off the saline bag with the clamp, and disconnect.

Over filling/stress of the sac can cause osmosis leaking/sweating.. Do an amount of saline at first that is comfortable and not stressfull/hurting by all means. I have over done before and.you don't want to walk around with your sac dripping water out of it.and the after results cause chapping etc which takes a few days to peel and recover from.

Some of the saline is going to migrate into your cock. Your cock girth is going to become much larger than you have ever experienced.

AFTER YOU DISCONNECT FROM THE SALINE BAG, SIT AND WITH "SUPER GLUE", YES SUPER GLUE ON HAND, WITHDRAW THE CATHETER SHEATH.
AND WITH A TOWEL, PLACE SOME PRESSURE OVER THE HOLE THE NEEDLE CREATED......YOU MAY HAVE SOME BLOOD OR BLOOD MIXED WITH SALINE TRYING TO EXIT YOUR SAC! THEREFORE THE TOWELS

DON'T WORRY KEEP PRESSURE OVER AND DOWN ONTO THE HOLE FOR A COUPLE OF MINUTES TO LET THINGS REST AND ANY BLOOD COAGULATE.

REMOVE THE "PRESSURE" TOWEL AND WITH SUPER GLUE, PLACE A FEW DROPS ON THE HOLE TO HOPEFULLY SEAL IT UP QUICKLY. KEEP THE COCK RING OR EQUIVALENT ON DURING THIS AND CONTINE TO LUBE YOUR SAC.

IF ALL IS GOING VERY WELL, IN A COUPLE OF MINUTES, YOUR SAC AND THE HOLE IS SEALED AND YOU ARE DONE.

IF ALL THINGS ARE NOT GOING WELL, YOU MIGHT NOT GET A GOOD SEAL THE FIRST TIME JUST PEAL OFF THE SUPER GLUE RESIDUE AND START OVER.

At first your sac will be very tight,but over the next few hours or over night, keeping the cock ring on less tightly or without a cock ring your sac will relax and begin to stretch.

The saline will take a couple of days or more to absorb into you body. That is okay,Saline is sterile water adjusted to normal body PH.

Enjoy it, flaunt it if you are inclined, watch the perm stretch and sac tissue growth that happens over time.

You will need to p a little more often than regular as the saline absorbs into your body, but just enjoy the weight and feel of what is between your legs.

I hope this helps....If your nuts and sac are normally pretty big or even small and you want more, this will blow you away with the results.

Take care

Re:Saline pushes for larger (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26101059)

Redundant? How the shit did this get modded REDUNDANT ffs? Was saline ballsac injection mentioned ITFA or some shit?

Re:Saline pushes for larger (1)

haruchai (17472) | more than 5 years ago | (#26104779)

Hey, AC, i think you've injected too much saline into your "brains" if you're complaining about the moderation of the grandparent post.

Re:Saline pushes for larger (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26101107)

I for one welcome our saline ballsac injecting overlords!

The fear is gone (4, Insightful)

BearRanger (945122) | more than 5 years ago | (#26100961)

At long last vendors have gotten over their fear of Microsoft. There was a time HP and Dell would never consider preloading an alternative operating system. Now they're both doing it, and it's good for the customer, good for Linux and -- surprise -- good for HP and Dell.

The complete marketing failure that is Windows Vista made this possible. (Note that I didn't say the failure of Vista. Microsoft is on the road to salvaging the OS itself, but customer perception of its quality is a lost cause.)

Re:The fear is gone (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26101023)

maybe in your puny /. mind it's a failure, but last time i checked every new pc comes with vista.

Re:The fear is gone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26101051)

maybe in your puny /. mind it's a failure, but last time i checked every new pc comes with vista.

All of mine (and 100 other people I know) have come with OS X so far.

Re:The fear is gone (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26101183)

a) Why do you count how many Mac users you know, unless you are out to prove something
b) He said "every new pc". I know Macs run on Intel now and the Insanely Mac project allows non-Apple hardware to run OS X, but call a Mac a Mac and a Dell/HP/Asus/* a PC, e.g. a computer that has yet to be blessed with the holy Apple logo.

<rant>
And since I am going to be modded down for badmouthing crApple anyways (hello, slashdot!):

Apple needs to stop dictating their App store so much and pissing off developers before everyone switches to Android and keeps jailbreaking the iPhone. If I wanted to pay for Unix on high-end hardware, I would (instead of getting a Macintrash) go to NewEgg and SCO. And If I have to watch Steve Jobs get up at another keynote and act like the second coming of Christ one more time for a mediocre line of new products, I think I'm going to put all my money in Microsoft stock! Oh, and stop trying to patent the 3D desktop: Compiz-Fusion has been doing that for years! If they get their patent approved I'm applying to patent the steering wheel (car analogy)!
</rant>

There, all of my Apple complaints are off my chest. Man, I feel better now!!

Re:The fear is gone (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26101225)

Bravo! By far the best Apple rant I've read in along time, I'd kill for some mod points right now. Now the pro-Apple assholes should be here in 3...2...1...

Re:The fear is gone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26101279)

Yeah! Thats the spirit! Fuck censorsh$%^* [NO CARRIER]

Re:The fear is gone (4, Insightful)

Divebus (860563) | more than 5 years ago | (#26101293)

There, all of my Apple complaints are off my chest. Man, I feel better now!!

Ok, A/C, I'll bite:

a) Frankly, I don't know many people buying new Windows PCs. They're mostly buying Macs and half are migrating from Windows PCs. The ones buying Windows PCs always give a sad excuse like "my wife needs it for her work".

b) Apple was using the term "Personal Computer" for six or seven years before the IBM PC, which simply co-opted the term from others. Apple probably has more rights to "PC" than anyone.

c) It sounds like you should be worrying more about how obsolete your knowledge base will be in the next decade than ranting against whatever is displacing it. Step into the light. More individuals and companies are realizing that it's irresponsible to put a Windows machine where something else will do the same job. Everything is a threat only if you stay in a box and galvanize yourself against technological change.

Re:The fear is gone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26101407)

a) Yeah, nevermind the windows workstations used in enterprise environments, a place where Macs current have little to no place as opposed to both Windows and Linux

b) So if Apple has the "rights" to it so much (cue shark lawyers), how come they all use it as a derogatory term for a non-Apple-blessed computer? Anyone who even glances at a TV once in a while can tell you that

c) Exactly, and Linux has been very strong in the workplace and datacenter for a while now, and it looks as if it will continue to (steadily) grow in the desktop market as well for those migrating from vista despite Windows being the preferred workstation OS. Macs are for either graphics designers, people who don't know any better (yet have deep pockets) or college kids who, in addition to making a fashion statement, aim to be "different" although most computer science majors switch to Linux fairly quick after discovering it.

At least, the ones whom know what the hell they're doing.

Re:The fear is gone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26103673)

I spend my work days fixing Windows specific problems and deploy Macs where it's critical that things work well. The Mac is what Linux wants to be.

Re:The fear is gone (1)

Divebus (860563) | more than 5 years ago | (#26105355)

Macs are for either graphics designers, people who don't know any better (yet have deep pockets) or college kids who, in addition to making a fashion statement, aim to be "different" although most computer science majors switch to Linux fairly quick after discovering it.

You know nothing about OS X.

Re:The fear is gone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26108115)

To the contrary, I run (pirated, FTW) iAtkos OS X Leopard on my gateway. And the insanelymac project requires my being very informed of OS X at the system level (XNU), including patching and compiling my own kexts for running non-crApple hardware.

If you ask why I'm doing this after just badmouthing apple a couple of posts above, its because I wish to break the (certified Unix) OS away from the overpriced hardware.

And as far as only college kids using Macs for the fashion statement, the truth hurts: Just ask one of them why they chose Macs over "PCs" (as I do all of the time in Starbucks, where the species in question tend to cultivate) and you'll get the same BS made-up-as-its-said excuse I've always heard: "uhhh, its more stable, doesn't get viruses, and uhh never breaks".

Re:The fear is gone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26102449)

Apple is so far behind windows that we will not see them catch up in our life time. Apple is just as unstable as windows with less. I'm a mac user and frankly I'm migrating back to windows, so I can get stuff done.

Re:The fear is gone (1)

Jamie's Nightmare (1410247) | more than 5 years ago | (#26101217)

..and in this fantasy, Steve Jobs sneaks up behind you, wraps his arms snug across your chest, nuzzles your ear a little bit and whispers, "Thank you..... (lick) mmmmmm"

Re:The fear is gone (1)

theaveng (1243528) | more than 5 years ago | (#26102057)

Damnit. Did I leave my webcam turned again? How did you know?

Re:The fear is gone (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 5 years ago | (#26102491)

I bought one a month ago with XP. Verily, thou failest it.

Re:The fear is gone (1)

PixetaledPikachu (1007305) | more than 5 years ago | (#26107341)

Out of about 250 desktops (HP, Dell) and laptops (Dell, Lenovo) that the company I work for bought about 3 months ago came with Windows XP Pro. In fact, during 2008, we only purchased 3 units with Vista on them, which is 1 Lenovo X61 and 2 Vaio TZ series. Of course all of them are running XP at the moment.

Re:The fear is gone (4, Interesting)

Divebus (860563) | more than 5 years ago | (#26101075)

At long last vendors have gotten over their fear of Microsoft.

Just what I was thinking. They're still a 300 pound gorilla but can no longer bully several 150 pound gorillas.

Re:The fear is gone (2, Insightful)

pallmall1 (882819) | more than 5 years ago | (#26101467)

They're still a 300 pound gorilla but can no longer bully several 150 pound gorillas.

HP is shipping Novell's SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop linux.

Novell is Microsoft's trained 150 pound gorilla.

Re:The fear is gone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26107863)

Trained or not, Open Enterprise Server 2.1 is very impressive, I'm sure their Interoperability agreement helped develop an impressive OS, now I can replace my Windows AD Servers with Novell's SUSE implementation of AD running OES 2.1....Yes AD on LINUX!!!!! SWEET!!!!! ....stable once again!

Re:The fear is gone (2, Funny)

rolfwind (528248) | more than 5 years ago | (#26101963)

Wow, they lost a lot of weight. I remember when Microsoft used to be an 800 or 900 pound gorilla.

Should make their doctors happy.

Re:The fear is gone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26105641)

It's like that episode of Doctor Who. Several smaller gorillas, made of fat, broke off from MS. The lighter MS can no longer handle these smaller fat gorillas.

Re:The fear is gone (-1, Flamebait)

Jamie's Nightmare (1410247) | more than 5 years ago | (#26101199)

There was nothing to fear, because the demand for Linux as a desktop OS is nearly invisible. The world isn't based on the cultural vacuum inside Slashdot.

Like it or not, Linux distributions are the "Ron Paul" of operating systems. Lots of fanfare and excitement with a small group of people, some of whom congregate on websites, forums and chat rooms. Meanwhile, in the real world, nobody cares. Those who do take enough interest to take a close look, laugh and say "You gotta be kidding", and walk away.

Re:The fear is gone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26101235)

I recently tried OpenSUSE 10.3 in company environment and must say that standard Evolution 2.12 installation is still awfully buggy and browsing of exchange public folders does not work at all!!!
And there is no normal solution because in order to update Evolution to possibly working version you are forced to update to OpenSUSE 11.0!

Re:The fear is gone (1)

JackieBrown (987087) | more than 5 years ago | (#26104855)

They are free.

Maybe you should have started with the newer one.

Re:The fear is gone (2, Informative)

kanweg (771128) | more than 5 years ago | (#26101203)

I think it would be better if the {the other) machines they sold ran both Windows and Linux (such that customers could run both concurrently). It would be great if a PC manufacturer could say: "Yes, you can run that Windows-ony business app of yours, but you also get (access to) a boat load of free useful software. It would sell. And buyers could throw off Linux if they insist.

That not being the case is still a tail of MS's monopoly abuse still present, I'm afraid.

Bert

Re:The fear is gone (2, Insightful)

theaveng (1243528) | more than 5 years ago | (#26102007)

Uh... then you'll have to add $200 to the cost of the PC. Better to leave the Windows off and push Linux as a "lower cost alternative".

Re:The fear is gone (0)

sucker_muts (776572) | more than 5 years ago | (#26101431)

Let's hope that a lot of businesses try this out right now, and get a little bit familiar with linux and the open source community. I hope the economic crisis will help with this aspect.

Otherwise a lot of them will wait till Windows 7 is there, and simple use that since it will be so much better than vista. And they'll know how to use 7 better, all their previous investments can be reused.

The amount of stories about businesses, individuals and education institutions trying out open source seems to be growing, at least It seems so. Go linux! :)

Re:The fear is gone (3, Insightful)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 5 years ago | (#26101791)

You have more confidence in Windows 7 than I do. Do you have some reason for such confidendce? Vista was similarly advertised as a wonderful upgrade, but its promised features (such as WinFS) somehow managed to fail, miserably, when actually tried and many of them were pulled from the final product. The new user interface is pretty silly, its intrusive DRM and security features are painful for users and encourage similar stupidities of always hitting 'yes', and the policy games played with releasing 'Vista-only' drivers and products are awful.

There seems no reason to think that the policies that led to Vista have changed, even if its preliminary tests are promising. Preliminary tests of Vista were also misleading in their performance tests.

Re:The fear is gone (1)

lukas84 (912874) | more than 5 years ago | (#26101965)

Vista has "intrusive DRM"? I never noticed, and i've been using Vista since Beta 2 on my laptop.

UAC, by the way, is not painful for users - if you just "use" your computer, you'll not see a single UAC prompt - when you start to do administrative tasks, things will be different.

Technically, Vista was ok. If it would've been released 2 years earlier, it would've been great. Windows 7 is the polishment to Vista that XP was to 2000. History repeats itself.

Vista fixed many, many issues that XP had, like the antique installer being replaced by a new image based installation systems that works better and faster. Of course, the casual user could care less about this.

Vista also made many design errors in applications more obvious, which was one of it's downfalls from a customer perspective, but from a long term POV, it was the right thing to do.

Re:The fear is gone (4, Interesting)

theaveng (1243528) | more than 5 years ago | (#26102029)

That's because Vista's DRM isn't turned on yet. Microsoft says they'll turn it on starting year 2010 (via an update of course), and then good luck trying to play all your burned CDs and DVDs that lack DRM.

Also:

I wouldn't be so sure that businesses will immediately jump to Windows 7. Being a contractor I get to see a lot of different companies installations, and Not One has upgraded to Vista. They still prefer XP even though it's almost three years since a new OS arrived.

Re:The fear is gone (2)

lukas84 (912874) | more than 5 years ago | (#26102109)

That's because Vista's DRM isn't turned on yet. Microsoft says they'll turn it on starting year 2010 (via an update of course), and then good luck trying to play all your burned CDs and DVDs that lack DRM.

Yes, every vendor of any OS can release an update that changes the behaviour of it. That's kinda the reason for updates. Alas, this hasn't happened yet and it won't - there is no base for all the "evil conspiracy" hype around Vista.

I wouldn't be so sure that businesses will immediately jump to Windows 7. Being a contractor I get to see a lot of different companies installations, and Not One has upgraded to Vista. They still prefer XP even though it's almost three years since a new OS arrived.

Of course they won't! Heck, i still see businesses running Windows 2000 on Desktops and Servers, even new ones! (which is insane, IMO)

I work for an IT service company that services small businesses, and most (~80%) of the machines we deploy are running Windows Vista. We've been selling and installing Windows Server 2008 since the release date, and last week i just finished installing the first SBS 2008.

Yep, smaller companies are more progressive than very large companies, simply because they have fewer apps to support and are more flexible.

Re:The fear is gone (1)

theaveng (1243528) | more than 5 years ago | (#26103549)

Oh okay. Well maybe I misunderstood then. I though the "protected media pipelines" were put in Vista for the purpose of blocking unauthorized copies of music from playing through the OS. Assuming I'm wrong, why did Microsoft put them there?

ALSO:

I'm not blaming Microsoft. I'm blaming the MPAA and RIAA; they're the ones who decided, starting 2010, to make CDs/DVDs unplayable in PCs that lacked DRM security. Sure Vista will play anything now, but come 2010 that will no longer be true.

Re:The fear is gone (1)

Dutch Gun (899105) | more than 5 years ago | (#26106925)

Oh okay. Well maybe I misunderstood then. I though the "protected media pipelines" were put in Vista for the purpose of blocking unauthorized copies of music from playing through the OS. Assuming I'm wrong, why did Microsoft put them there?

No, this would be a total disaster if they actually tried this. They'd have to block ALL APIs that allow unencrypted audio from unsigned applications, and that would break nearly every existing application that currently plays any sort of audio, not just DVD and CD playback. There are too many legacy audio pipelines they'd have to cut off (DirectSound, MCI, WaveOut), and even the native Vista audio API WASAPI allows unencrypted digital output. They'd even have to detect and block third-party audio pipeline implementations, such as Creative Labs OpenAL drivers, or professional-type ASIO drivers. In short, it's absolutely impossible to do that while still allowing any existing application to continue playing digital audio.

As you surmised, the reason the protected paths are there is because of requirements for HD video playback. This is what would potentially be affected if you don't have end-to-end hardware that does the proper digital handshaking (since HD video utilizes this dedicated path), not any existing video or audio playback subsystems.

I mean, it would be funny if they tried... Say hello to 2010: Year of the Linux Desktop! As well as the biggest class-action lawsuit in history.

Re:The fear is gone (1)

PinkyGigglebrain (730753) | more than 5 years ago | (#26104143)

"Yep, smaller companies are more progressive than very large companies, ..."
And they tend to have less money to spend on IT so they will just go with whatever comes with the computers they buy. The company I work for purchases only from Dell for the simple reason that we can still get XP, the boss has seen Vista and what it does to system resources. He hates Vista (he already complains about how slow his quad-core, 3GHz systems is with XP64) and has told me flat out that he will not use Vista in the company, I'm already under orders to research alternatives to the applications the company uses that will allow us to continue with XP and let us transition to Linux as needed.

But actually your right about smaller companies being more progressive in one regard, they are more willing and able to ditch Windows and go with alternatives.

Re:The fear is gone (1)

lukas84 (912874) | more than 5 years ago | (#26104285)

But actually your right about smaller companies being more progressive in one regard, they are more willing and able to ditch Windows and go with alternatives.

Which is exactly what i would recommend to anyone who dislikes Vista - if you don't like where Microsoft is going: Switch!

Re:The fear is gone (1)

StuartHankins (1020819) | more than 5 years ago | (#26106359)

Windows 2000 Server is still dependable (at least as far as Windows goes). Sometimes an app you want to use either misbehaves with Windows 2003 or is flat-out incompatible (such as HP EVA 4400 drivers not working with 2003 R2). There are a lot of good reasons for staying with something that's a known evil.

Most businesses have to justify the cost of upgrades too.

Re:The fear is gone (1)

Dutch Gun (899105) | more than 5 years ago | (#26103019)

That's because Vista's DRM isn't turned on yet. Microsoft says they'll turn it on starting year 2010 (via an update of course), and then good luck trying to play all your burned CDs and DVDs that lack DRM.

Anyone can write an application that pumps a raw digital audio stream through the Vista audio subsystem. There are no requirements at the primary (WASAPI) or legacy APIs (MCI, DirectSound, WaveOut, etc) for digital encryption of the audio stream or even an application signature. This sort of DRM update you speak of, in addition to being completely technically infeasible, would utterly break every single audio-enabled application on the Windows platform today, such as browser plugins, professional audio development tools, educational programs, games, and music players alike.

Whatever you think of Microsoft, they're not bat-shit insane.

Re:The fear is gone (1)

BrentH (1154987) | more than 5 years ago | (#26102219)

On my dads PC, somehow launching Firefox causes the UAC dialog. He doesnt know jack shit about all this rights business (well, he does now), but has certainly not performed actions that he shouldnt have done. However this came to be, is a fault of the software, not him. Nevermind that UAC offers not security at all, writing software to circumvent it is easy as pie. UAC just doesn't work, certainly not when I compare it to sudo on Linux.

Re:The fear is gone (1)

lukas84 (912874) | more than 5 years ago | (#26102265)

On my dads PC, somehow launching Firefox causes the UAC dialog.

So, Firefox is broken and you blame Vista? Interesting way of putting it.

Recent versions of Firefox have proper manifests and only show an UAC prompt when installing an update (which makes sense).

Nevermind that UAC offers not security at all, writing software to circumvent it is easy as pie. UAC just doesn't work, certainly not when I compare it to sudo on Linux.

Can you elaborate on that?

Re:The fear is gone (1)

BrentH (1154987) | more than 5 years ago | (#26103011)

It was a recent Firefox, version 3. Just happened overnight. Yes, that means Vista is broken, because the same installer works fine on other computers. Try googling 'circumvent uac' for starters. And if you don't see how sudo is superior, use it.

Re:The fear is gone (1)

lukas84 (912874) | more than 5 years ago | (#26103095)

I've used sudo, and think it's customizability would do great for Windows. It's clearly better than UAC in terms of configurability.

However, regarding security, my first Google hit was this:
http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2008/04/28/vista-uac-faux-security-or-what/ [theopensourcerer.com]

How does this issue not apply for sudo?

Assume i do

sudo evil_service
(runs in the backgrounds, installs itself into the init system)
and then do
evil_program
that uses some IPC mechanism to talk to evil_service, how is this different from UAC?

Re:The fear is gone (1)

influenza (138942) | more than 5 years ago | (#26104281)

You're right, users can override any security mechanism if they have administrative access.

One big difference for most Linux users though, is that probably all of the software they'll need to use their computer is available from a single, trusted source: their distribution's repositories. So instead of having to surf the web to download applications (and potentially get misled into downloading malware) they can get everything they need from one source where every package has been through at least some sort of a validation process.

As a bonus, the Linux user also gets to update their entire operating system and all installed applications at once. That means they only have to sudo once, versus having to approve UAC prompts for every piece of software that auto-updates on their computer. Linux users don't have to sudo very often for day to day use, so IMHO they're less likely to get desensitized to sudo than to UAC.

Re:The fear is gone (1)

lukas84 (912874) | more than 5 years ago | (#26104463)

One big difference for most Linux users though, is that probably all of the software they'll need to use their computer is available from a single, trusted source: their distribution's repositories.

Which works only in theory - there are many cases where you have to download software seperately, compile it on your own, install it somehow.

But i'll agree on the general point with you: software packaging and automating is a really big mess on Windows. Enterprises buy lots of software and needs lots of personnel just to simply repackage software for proper deployment.

Re:The fear is gone (1)

yuna49 (905461) | more than 5 years ago | (#26106187)

there are many cases where you have to download software separately, compile it on your own, install it somehow.

Really? "Many cases?" Name me five programs that an ordinary office or home user would need to compile if they're running a recent distro like Fedora or Ubuntu. I've used Linux for a dozen years now, and lately the only things I need to compile are obscure server apps. I can't think of a single piece of software running on my and my daughter's Kubuntu (Intrepid) machines, nor on my Fedora 8 desktop, that I had to compile from source.

Re:The fear is gone (1)

lukas84 (912874) | more than 5 years ago | (#26106243)

Yellownet E-Finance (Swiss finance institute, online banking application)
Kanton Zurich Tax Application

Both are java, but the Linux variant is unpackaged.

Depending on what kind of hardware you're running graphics or WLAN drivers, as distributions always seem to lag behind new hardware releases.

Things get worse if you're an "ordinary user" and want to run current applications on a 3 year old Linux installation. Which works perfectly fine on Windows, but Ubuntu and co. are different here.

Windows 7 is the polishment WTF ?!?!?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26102267)

Dear Mr. Steve Ballmer, "polishment" is not a word. I suggest you spend less time with the Scrotal/Ego Inflation Society and more time with an English teacher who knows what a prescriptive dictionary is.

Besides that, every customer I've set up with XP has holy cow you've helped us dodge that bullet. The Vista people, well their businesses are in bankruptcy.

Re:The fear is gone (1)

Erikderzweite (1146485) | more than 5 years ago | (#26102289)

Technically, Vista was ok. If it would've been released 2 years earlier, it would've been great. Windows 7 is the polishment to Vista that XP was to 2000. History repeats itself.

Win7 is yet another attempt to sell Vista. First MS wanted to sell Vista. When they saw that fewer buy it than expected, they made a Service Pack but didn't get enough sales again because businesses wanted to skip Vista altogether. Solution -- take the same system based on the same kernel, slightly improve it, make a new wallpaper, bribe reviewers with expencive laptops to get positive reviews and call it Windows 7, maybe it'll sell now.

Re:The fear is gone (1)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 5 years ago | (#26102717)

Well, they haven't completely implemented Palladium, renamed 'Trusted Computing'. But if you work with CygWin and other open source tools, the poor interactions with their anti-viral and software management materials can get pretty painful. Getting OpenSSH, VNC, and Apache going under Vista were not fun for me.

This is particularly played out in the Windows Media Player: as near s I can tell, they implemented a lot of additional DRM in the Vista version, and have been backporting it to XP to keep people from using free and DRM-free players like VLC. Yes, I'm wearing a bit of a tinfoil hat about this, but they really need to keep people locked to the DRM managed MediaPlayer to force broadcasters and media suppliers from using or supporting other operating systems.

Re:The fear is gone (1)

lukas84 (912874) | more than 5 years ago | (#26102867)

Well, they haven't completely implemented Palladium, renamed 'Trusted Computing'.

That's technology. Signature enforcement on binaries can make perfect sense in high security environments.

Of course, technology being technology it can also be used for "bad" purposes. Like a knife can be used to cut meat or kill people.

Getting OpenSSH, VNC, and Apache going under Vista were not fun for me.

Okay, i can get that. With a new OS that changes a few fundamentals of the platform, there are bound to be some hiccups. The problem with Vista was that noone, not even commercial vendors, prepared their software using the beta releases.

I don't really see why you blame Vista for breaking e.G. VNC - i would blame the VNC vendors for not keeping up with the platform they're developing for.

XP to keep people from using free and DRM-free players like VLC

What? I've been using mplayer to watch my movies on Vista since forever - the only problem i have with it is that it still disables Aero. It's doesn't annoy me enough to learn enough C and DirectX to fix it, though :)

Re:The fear is gone (1)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 5 years ago | (#26102945)

Palladium is a _lot_ more than signature enforcement. Read up on it, it's potentially extremely nasty. It's designed to operate at so deep a level that the BIOS, boot loader, and media burners can be locked to signed-only operating systems and run only signed binaries to access attached storage media. Imagine who'd benefit the most from that, especially because the signatures are expensive? And who's going to hold the secret keys for all those signatures? The same company that's already been convicted several times of anti-trust and monopoly practices.

Re:The fear is gone (1)

lukas84 (912874) | more than 5 years ago | (#26103027)

It's designed to operate at so deep a level that the BIOS, boot loader, and media burners can be locked to signed-only operating systems and run only signed binaries to access attached storage media.

Yeah, this is already implemented and can be used together with bitlocker and a TPM for full disk encryption without any user interaction whatsoever. It's nice functionality, IMHO!

If the BIOS is modified, then Bitlocker requires a temporary unlock key.

Imagine who'd benefit the most from that, especially because the signatures are expensive? And who's going to hold the secret keys for all those signatures? The same company that's already been convicted several times of anti-trust and monopoly practices.

Again, this is kinda my point: If that were to become MANDATORY (which it isn't!) then it would be the catastrophe you're talking about. Only it's not mandatory, it's just a feature that can be used e.G. for full disk encryption.

Re:The fear is gone (1)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 5 years ago | (#26104339)

That's only one of its hooks. It's designed, as well, to manage media such as DVD players and streaming applications to be able to unlock the data with the pre-signed, TPM enabled application. This is fine for media which the owner wishes to protect, but is nothing but pain for material which the *producer* wants to protect, and the user does not (such as videos and audios and games). This is like SecuROM, elected to be governor of California. And the keys are designed so that Microsoft will handle the core repository of the *secret* keys for recover and 'law enforcement' reasons.

In other words, for protecting your documents from the feds even without a warrant (because there is no legal structure in place to protect your keys and no indication that a warrant would be needed), or from Microsoft at whim, they are worse than useless because they give a very false sense of security. As near as I can taell, from the presentation by Brian LaMacchia, it's designed not to let you have your own, private, not-available-to-Microsoft private keys.

Re:The fear is gone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26107233)

HP has never feared Microsoft like many others PC-vendors do... and since they merged with Compaq it has been even less.
HP's main cash-cows on consumer market are ink jet printers and ink.
HP's main cash-cows on enterprise market are SAN, Non-Stop and HP-UX.

Re:The fear is gone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26107809)

I believe people started getting over their FUD fear shortly after the release of Windows ME, but the size of the MS bankroll kept them in the spotlight...

After the recent IMF, World Bank, Citi bank and the Pentagon were hacked, I've downloaded NOVELLS SUSE LINUX 10.sp2 and OES 2.1. (Remembering )When I ran NETWARE I did not have near the problems as I do with Windows Servers. I'm now recommending we purchase SUSE to replace as many Windows Servers as we can throughout out entire company.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing MS or Windows, they have a good application OS...just not a stable server solution. The above mentioned hacks prove that. The IMF and World banks packed up their servers and sent them to MS to fix....yes even their Password server was compromised.

HP, open source - in the past??? (1, Interesting)

darkeye (199616) | more than 5 years ago | (#26101083)

"It has been, traditionally, a company that supports open source â" especially in larger enterprises..."

like when was it when they ever supported open source in any context?

Re:HP, open source - in the past??? (1)

bailey86 (1049254) | more than 5 years ago | (#26101275)

They've had really good support for Debian for ages. Just go to their site and search on 'Debian'.

A few thoughts... (5, Interesting)

nagnamer (1046654) | more than 5 years ago | (#26101207)

First of all, I wonder if "HP recommends Windows Vista® Business" (c/p from the product's description on HP's site) will go away when Linux offering is finally presented.

Also, I wonder if the Linux OS will be labeled "Genuine Novell(r) SuSE Linux Enterprise Desktop(tm)" or just "Novell(r) SuSE Linux Enterprise Desktop(tm)". Imagine the following scenario: an unsuspecting consumer comes to the website, sees a bunch of "genuine" Windows products, and then notices a (non-genuine, huh?) Linux-something desktop and goes "Wtf? Why is this not genuine?!"... That'd be M$: 1, Novell: 0...

Yeah, I'm skeptical... They all say they support open-source and free software, whatever. But I think they are just trying to get whatever piece of market they can.

Remember how the Punk movement started off as an attempt to contradict the system, and now it's highly commercialized. You can earn a good buck for pre-torn pair of jeans, and you can sell a circle-A leather jacket... people used to make these things by themselves to make a statement. Now you can get off-the-shelf statements for money. I think it's gonna be the same for open-source. In the end, it's all about money, and they don't care about the underlying philosophies. Consumers don't.

Re:A few thoughts... (2, Interesting)

jimicus (737525) | more than 5 years ago | (#26101921)

First of all, I wonder if "HP recommends Windows Vista® Business" (c/p from the product's description on HP's site) will go away when Linux offering is finally presented.

I doubt it. Have you noticed that the wording of that phrase is the same with every PC manufacturer? "${MANUFACTURER} recommends Windows ${VERSION}". It's a marketing thing from Microsoft - include this phrase prominently and get a % discount on your OEM licenses.

Re:A few thoughts... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26103289)

I think it's gonna be the same for open-source. In the end, it's all about money, and they don't care about the underlying philosophies.

Sure the vendors don't care what they're selling as long as it turns a profit -- but they cannot simply ignore the philosophy of open source software or try to quietly go back to their old proprietary ways. It may be possible today, but in time it will be impossible. Why? Because then they will lose all the advantages of the open source method which earns them money, yet open source will still there. It's still there and still being improved, by somebody else. If they don't cash in according to the rules, then somebody else will, and they will eventually win.

Once an open source project gains enough momentum, there's no stopping it. There will always be someone there to pick up the slack, or fork it, maintain it, keep improving it. The world is just too big to let it die, and even the biggest corporations in the world can't stop this. After all, they've already tried and failed.

Slowly but surely, the open source philosophy and method is overtaking proprietary software. Perhaps there will always be a place for proprietary software in ultra-niche markets. Let's put it this way: when open source is the only remaining viable option, what else are HP and Dell going to do?

Always supported Open Source?!? (2, Interesting)

supernova_hq (1014429) | more than 5 years ago | (#26101255)

If they always supported open source, then why do all their laptops have ATI graphics cards, Broadcom Wireless cards and Intel sound systems?

Re:Always supported Open Source?!? (2, Insightful)

Drinking Bleach (975757) | more than 5 years ago | (#26101833)

They all work in GNU/Linux without any proprietary components, so what are you complaining about exactly?

Re:Always supported Open Source?!? (1)

CoonAss56 (927862) | more than 5 years ago | (#26102403)

ATI (working) is a oxymoron. They never worked until recently and then badly.

Re:Always supported Open Source?!? (1)

benjamindees (441808) | more than 5 years ago | (#26108507)

I would simply mod you down, but someone might get the impression that you have made a valid point.

According to http://bcm43xx.berlios.de/ [berlios.de]

A Linux driver for the Broadcom bcm43xx wireless chips.
Broadcom never released details about these chips. So this driver is based upon reverse engineered specifications.

The same applies to ATI, which only recently began releasing full specs and developing Linux support for newer chipsets.

HP has definitely not "always supported open source". And they have in the past announced similar small-business-focused marketing initiatives for Linux that turned out to be half-hearted.

laser engraver (-1, Offtopic)

bbslaser (1430695) | more than 5 years ago | (#26101265)

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PLEASE MOD PARENT INTO THE GROUND (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26101533)

thank you

Stuff that just makes sense (4, Interesting)

mcrbids (148650) | more than 5 years ago | (#26101339)

Small businesses are used to running on a shoestring budget. They will often make a $150 used PC from Ebay "work" because they spent their capital on inventory, or paying taxes, or paying off a balloon payment for a short-term loan.

This is even more the case with the impending recession. Small businesses that can live on a shadow of the income of "the big boys" by staying lean and mean will survive and thrive through this economic shakedown, while wasteful "fat cats" will be pruned like the rotten fruit that they are.

In this space, saving a few hundred bucks can make or break a deal, and HP recognizes this.

Here, for $500-ish, they can offer a "complete office solution" that can only be matched for about $1,200 in the Microsoft camp. That's not a "few hundred bucks", thats OVER FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS difference, pure profit, all of it.

All without sacrificing HP's profit margins!

Of course they are going to do this, as soon as the $500 solution is functionally approximate to the $1,200 solution! (and it largely is, now!)

Adds to to an end-run around MS IE. So what? (1)

operator_error (1363139) | more than 5 years ago | (#26101473)

Seriously, the only thing HP has achieved in its 'Mozilla Firefox for HP Virtual Solution' is substituting-out IE and replacing it with FireFox v2, (and they are still using Flash 9). wow.

That's true as of this tech note dated September 22, 2008, 1 link from TFA: https://kb.altiris.com/display/1n/articleDirect/index.asp?aid=41672&r=0.4010279 [altiris.com]

Note that HP is still using some flavor of Windows, running Trend Micro OfficeScan, plus this which gives me the shakes because its called Symantec something:

"Symantec SVS 2.1.2096 Runtime: Software Virtualization Solution (SVS) is a revolutionary approach to software management..."

So firefox is actually opensource, but I see little else that is. Why didn't they use Linux I wonder? Nothing to see here, move along.

Now it's for real (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26101495)

2009 is the linux's year!

Printer drivers (3, Interesting)

frisket (149522) | more than 5 years ago | (#26101831)

If they'd only open up and produce printer drivers for CUPS...

Re:Printer drivers are freely available and... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26103665)

If they'd only open up and produce printer drivers for CUPS...

That is a completely unfair accusation. HP have long provided an open source printer driver for 1,531 printer models of HP printers

http://hplipopensource.com/hplip-web/index.html

Re:Printer drivers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26104381)

I'm probably just ignorant, but what's wrong with HPIJS+CUPS?

Re:Printer drivers (1)

onefriedrice (1171917) | more than 5 years ago | (#26104691)

I've never had an HP printer that didn't work swimmingly with Linux. From what I've heard from others, HP seems to be the best supported in their experiences as well.

Re:Printer drivers (1)

StuartHankins (1020819) | more than 5 years ago | (#26106393)

I second that. The HP inkjet and LaserJet drivers are part of RHEL too. They "just work" without extra effort.

Re:Printer drivers (1)

digitalunity (19107) | more than 5 years ago | (#26107631)

The GP was probably thinking of Canon, where drivers are buggy to non-existent. I've got a Canon laser/fax/scan that is holding the corner of my desk down so it doesn't rock.

That's all it is good for.

Worthwhile Linux accounting app for US SMBs? (1)

walterbyrd (182728) | more than 5 years ago | (#26102549)

I don't know of any.

As I understand it, Intuit owns about 80% of the US SMB accounting market, the other 20% is split between Microsoft and Sage. Everything else combined, does not have enough of a user base to even register - which is a huge problem when it comes to support issues.

By support, I don't just mean phone support. I mean being able to find people who know, and accept, the product: accountants, consultants, employees, and third party developers. There are also issues of worthwhile documentation and training.

With Intuit, that sort of support is no problem: Intuit developer network, Quickbooks consultant certification program, hundreds of third party add-on products. Intuit is widely accepted, and recommended, by accountants. There are hundreds of books, and training programs, for Intuit products. And Intuit is supported by a real company.

Without a worthwhile SMB accounting application for Linux, I don't see how linux can compete in the SMB market.

Re:Worthwhile Linux accounting app for US SMBs? (1)

jvin248 (1147821) | more than 5 years ago | (#26104673)

SMBs can start with gnucash for accounting... but what they may really want are the open source ERP systems that incorporate all inventory/manufacturing/CRM/accounting into one package. OpenTap is one, but there are a lot currently and expanding in this space.

Re:Worthwhile Linux accounting app for US SMBs? (1)

Zemplar (764598) | more than 5 years ago | (#26108543)

Although I agree with your sentiment, your use of "linux" is not surprising on Slashdot. However, the US SMB's need an accounting application that is not kernel or platform specific. A good FOSS/GNU accounting application is what's really needed.

Is 512 megabyte enough RAM? (1)

theaveng (1243528) | more than 5 years ago | (#26102657)

I took a quick look at what HP is offering. The $500 PC discussed in the summary only has 512 megabytes of RAM. That won't work with Vista which runs like a snail through molasses, but is it enough to run "SUSE" Linux? Or will that be running slow too?

Re:Is 512 megabyte enough RAM? (2, Funny)

yelvington (8169) | more than 5 years ago | (#26102943)

The $500 PC discussed in the summary only has 512 megabytes of RAM. That won't work with Vista which runs like a snail through molasses, but is it enough to run "SUSE" Linux? Or will that be running slow too?

You must be new here.

Re:Is 512 megabyte enough RAM? (1)

jvin248 (1147821) | more than 5 years ago | (#26104695)

Not sure about SUSE... but load Xubuntu on it and it'll fly. Or load up regular Ubuntu.

The real inexpensive solution - for SMB's with 5-10 or more users is to go the route of LTSP.org It's easy to put into Ubuntu, and probably SUSE too.

Then a moderately powered server with up to 30 thin-clients (or even 10 year old pc's stripped of all drives and network PXE bootable) can function for the business.
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