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How Gamers View Their MMOs

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the ooo-shiny-objects dept.

Role Playing (Games) 132

GamerDNA is trying out what they call their Discovery Engine, a system that uses metadata from users to classify games and identify which have similar traits. Massively describes it thus: "Once the gamerDNA community continues to contribute to something like this, it builds up an enormous database of terminology based on actual player knowledge, not just shiny PR words thrown together to promote a game. These search terms can end up being unique to a specific genre, and ultimately lead gamers to exactly the types of games they're looking for." GamerDNA tested the system out on some of the popular MMOs, and they've posted the results. They look at how MMO players identify themselves within the game, how they describe the setting, and what basic descriptive phrases they use in reference to the games.

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first (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26117363)

FRIST POST

second (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26117421)

second post

Re:second (1)

dintech (998802) | more than 5 years ago | (#26117495)

You should have spent more time grinding refreshes.

How MMOs should be viewed (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26117433)

You're in a giant wheel inside a cage. You paid $50 for the wheel, and it costs you $15 a month to rent the cage it's in.

Alongside you are other wheels inside other cages, and attached to each wheel is a pulley system which connects to a hook, dangling a bucket of food. You run forward and the pulley moves and the bucket drops, and you reach inside and grab some food and eat it. But now the bucket is lighter, and so it swings back up on the arm it's attached to, and it's a bit higher than it was before.

You just ate, but since you're running so much in this wheel, you're hungry too, so you run a bit faster and sure enough the pulley turns and eventually the bucket comes back down and you eat some food. You feel a bit stronger now.

Hey, that guy in the wheel next to you has already eaten three times. You'd better run faster to keep up. There... now you're not hungry any more. But again, all that running to get the food has made you hungry again. And that bucket is higher now, almost out of reach. You'd better run faster to get it down here so you can eat again.

Maybe some day you can pay for a new wheel that faces a different direction. That would be AWESOME.

P.S. Also there's some pictures of elves or something on the wall in front of you. Maybe space.

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (5, Insightful)

sakdoctor (1087155) | more than 5 years ago | (#26117463)

That's also a description of some people's real lives you insensitive clod.

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (0, Redundant)

nacturation (646836) | more than 5 years ago | (#26117493)

You shouldn't have posted as AC because that's a great description. I'm sure the WOW-playing mods will likely choose their own punishment because there's no -1 Disagree moderation.

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 5 years ago | (#26119569)

Sadly, many of those who play WoW would be the first to AGREE with his metaphor.

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (4, Funny)

Thanshin (1188877) | more than 5 years ago | (#26117559)

Ungrateful youngsters.

In my times, the cage was free, but:
- The wheel wasn't round.
- The bucket was empty nine times out of ten.
- The pictures on the walls were so pixelated we didn't know they were elves unless we read the description.
- The other cages were somewhere else, so we didn't even know how often others ate.

Meh... (1)

denzacar (181829) | more than 5 years ago | (#26119229)

We had to imagine the wheel, the bucket, the pictures and the cage cause it was all text.
And we could only play on weekends cause there was no staying up late or sleepovers on a school night.
And our parents drove us to the place where we would imagine all that.
And it was raining. And we were cold. And hungry. All of the time.
And we LIKED it!

Re:Meh... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26121265)

In my day we went outside.

Re:Meh... (1)

kingsteve612 (1241114) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122753)

Outside? You mean that dirty place that I drive my car in? Why would anyone want to play computers game in that nasty place?

Re:Meh... (1)

ArsonSmith (13997) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123235)

Wow grandpa, Did you know anyone that was eaten by a Dinosaur?

You had _pictures_? Young 'uns these days ;) (1)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 5 years ago | (#26121769)

The pictures on the walls were so pixelated we didn't know they were elves unless we read the description.

What, you had _pictures_ on the walls? You young 'uns don't know how good you had it. Back in my day we just had the description. And were grateful even for that.

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (3, Interesting)

ILuvRamen (1026668) | more than 5 years ago | (#26117577)

that's why I runescape I just dressed as NPCs and jumped out and people and freaked them the hell out. Now THAT is fun lol. Seriously, I think every MMORPG I've ever played, I've just messed with people. I dressed in all blue one time in SRO, rode my horse next to someone else, and said "Sir I'm going to have to ask you to pull over." He actually did too. They should make an entire game out of just running around and messing with people cuz I do that anyway.

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26118267)

That proves how successful you are at normal social activities.

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (1)

eieken (635333) | more than 5 years ago | (#26117683)

But you forgot, there's lots of other people running on different wheels in different cages, all placed next to me. Sometimes when I go really fast on my wheel it bumps the wall, sometimes even causing the other wheels to bump into their walls too. It's multiplayer!

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26118173)

You didn't mention the annoying 15 year old pimple faced hamster that insists that if you let him join you on the wheel you can get twice as much food.

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (4, Insightful)

Exitar (809068) | more than 5 years ago | (#26118623)

How does this compare to the real life in which you work for:
- pay the rent of your house
- buy a new car cause your neighbour has a car better than the one you have now
- work more to get a pay rise
- hope for a better work someday

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (3, Insightful)

nobodylocalhost (1343981) | more than 5 years ago | (#26120235)

The difference is, in MMO you pay money to grind and work, in RL you get paid for grind and work.

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (1)

Exitar (809068) | more than 5 years ago | (#26120697)

If one assumes that playing is funny (probably not true anymore for severely addicted people), which is better, grinding for happiness or grinding for money? The answer "money can buy happiness" is not valid... :)

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (1)

ArsonSmith (13997) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123277)

So can you just use the money to rent happiness then?

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (3, Insightful)

l3prador (700532) | more than 5 years ago | (#26121399)

You get "paid" in an MMO as well, just in Gold or Gil or some other virtual currency? What makes getting paid in dollars more legitimate than getting paid in video game currency? Beyond paying for basic needs, all it can cover is shiny accessories also. The only real currency is time, and you have to pay that to both systems.

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (1)

LilGuy (150110) | more than 5 years ago | (#26121959)

Time AND labor. Money means nothing if there's no labor to back it.

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (1)

DisKurzion (662299) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122321)

Time AND labor. Money means nothing if there's no labor to back it.

Heirs to large fortunes notwithstanding...

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (1)

jbezorg (1263978) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122177)

The difference is, in MMO you pay money to grind and work, in RL you get paid for grind and work.

What about the gold farmers? Where do they fall in this?

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (1)

Lokitoth (1069508) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122503)

They are the beginning of ForEx to those other worlds. Though with a much worse reputation than the average Money Changer...

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (1)

jbezorg (1263978) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123151)

I was driving towards paying for a MMO to grind and work to get paid in RL and my post get sideswiped by FedEx on the internet... Sounds like a commuting accident.

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (1)

Endo13 (1000782) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122117)

You can always swap the MMO wheel for something completely different at the drop of a hat if you choose, with no adverse effects. Trading your life for a different one is a bit more difficult.

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (1)

tibman (623933) | more than 5 years ago | (#26118905)

In the MMO i play you get to destroy other people's wheels, i love my EVE :)

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26119017)

superb description

Asheron's Call, Ever Quest, Dark Age of Camelot... (1, Interesting)

Zerelli (579376) | more than 5 years ago | (#26119071)

I have played almost all the MMO's that have existed up to Burning Crusade. I cannot honestly fathom what posessed me to play those games. I took up guitar (not guitar hero, the real thing with strings) and spend more time playing with my kids. I tried to play WoW again a month or two ago and before that temporarily reactivated my LOTRO account, and I honestly do not see what is supposed to be fun about those games. WHen I get the bug to do some gaming I fire up the Xbox 360. No need to wait for a group to form and no worry about leaving early if the mood strikes to go play the guitar or the kids get bored with what they are into. Even better I save about $45 per month on no game subscriptions (used to play three or so of them at a time, or at least pay so I could). EVE online sounded really cool, then I logged in and it was just so ridiculously boring. Last log in for WoW I walked across a piece of Shattrath City and cancelled the account before I could even make up my mind where to go. The old school games seemed to have a lot more challenge, or maybe it was just that they were new. Anyone else find that they were once hardcore MMO fans and now totally do not play them?

Re:Asheron's Call, Ever Quest, Dark Age of Camelot (2, Informative)

oneils (934770) | more than 5 years ago | (#26120111)

Well, shit. If you have kids, then playing an MMO is pretty ridiculous. But, if you are a single, pathetic loser like myself, then MMO's make a lot of sense.

Re:Asheron's Call, Ever Quest, Dark Age of Camelot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26121387)

I am a SPL myself, but MMOs still don't make sense to me.

Re:Asheron's Call, Ever Quest, Dark Age of Camelot (1)

Reapy (688651) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123305)

Why not just admit that you got sick of the same old bs? By nature people tend to get bored of the same thing day in and day out. Eventually we "wake up" and realize something was pointless. We do this with MMO's, we do this in relationships (cmon how many ex's did you walk away from and say to yourself, wtf was i thinking?), we do this with hobbies.. I'm sure some guy has gotten bored of the same old thing with his guitar and took up mmos.

Variety is what we crave...just, why look back on something that made you happy, with disdain? You were obviously happy enough playing every mmo under the sun for years... why say it was a waste of time? You were having fun!

I took a break from my gaming and did the same thing. I picked up a guitar (its collecting dust now, I should have taken lessons, self taught after 3 months I still couldn't play a song, just a few chords and a scale or two), learned to juggle, took up volleyball (still play), tried yoga, took a tai chi class, a bunch of things.

Lately though I picked up wow again, and trying to figure out how to beat malygos (damn phase 3), and took a break on those other things.

I imagine I'll pick up a lot of those things when I have kids and less free time (alllmost time to start that /hides) But besides the health benefits of the few things (need to do those more often :) ), I am still just as happy... just make sure you are doing what makes you happy, even if that is just running on hamster wheels.

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (4, Insightful)

everphilski (877346) | more than 5 years ago | (#26120457)

You're in a giant wheel inside a cage. You paid $50 for the wheel, and it costs you $15 a month to rent the cage it's in.

Yes, but it is a cheaper wheel than going to the bar every Friday night, or going out to a movie twice a month, or even going out to lunch with coworkers once a week ... if you enjoy it and do it in lieu of other social activities it is a great money saver. Especially once you have kids. Kiddies go to bed around 7 or 8, you have a few hours alone with your wife ... once you've "ground out" a few levels in the bedroom together it's fun to play a MMO together and grind out a few levels together in game. Also a good way to keep in touch with friends who live far away... when I moved from WI to AL, we all played Everquest, and it was probably the cheapest way to keep in touch besides IM...

In short it's something to do. I bounce between WoW and EQ (I love original EQ, but my wife loves WoW, heart gets split in two) and play probably 3-4 months out of the year in between dissertation research and other extra-work work.

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (1)

passthecrackpipe (598773) | more than 5 years ago | (#26120573)

you win a giant wheel facing in a different direction! awesome post!

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (2, Interesting)

Lord_Dweomer (648696) | more than 5 years ago | (#26121427)

Awesome description...reminds me of the essay on how Everquest (and really all MMOs) are nothing but giant virtual Skinner Boxes [nickyee.com] . A great read--enjoy.

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (1)

paradox242 (1432213) | more than 5 years ago | (#26121803)

With the proper amount of cynicism any activity can be reduced to trivialities.

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (1)

m6ack (922653) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122513)

You are in an open field west of a big white house with a boarded front door.
There is a small mailbox here.

>

Re:How MMOs should be viewed (1)

Hellpop (451893) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123393)

That's if you care about what anyone else on any other wheels is doing. I get on when I feel like running, if I get some food from a bucket that's fine...
When I get tired, I drop off the wheel into something called RL, where I have various other pursuits that bring me no end of pleasure. I will practice those pursuits when I wish as well and then stop whenever I wish. Some are free and some I have to pay for. I get to choose which pursuits and how often I pursue them. I even get to choose if I want to pay for other possible pursuits...

I call this entertainment system "Free Will". I'd like to see it catch on someday...

Interesting Idea, but? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26117501)

While it sounds like an interesting idea, I'm not sure how it'll compare to:

google reviews

I can't personally see myself searching for:

A post-apocalyptic fun fantasy featuring an unlikely sexy hero fighting other players in space

But I guess somebody else might.

Re:Interesting Idea, but? (2, Insightful)

Meviin (1360417) | more than 5 years ago | (#26117667)

The idea isn't that people will search for a long string of adjectives. More likely, it would work like Pandora where you identify a game you like and they show you games that have similar elements. Or you could take a survey of many games and it will find the common themes, or maybe you could just take a survey of the themes. I wouldn't think of "post-apocalyptic fun fantasy" on my own, but I might mark it up on a survey.

Re:Interesting Idea, but? (3, Insightful)

Swizec (978239) | more than 5 years ago | (#26118065)

I wouldn't think of "post-apocalyptic fun fantasy" on my own, but I might mark it up on a survey.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you JUST think of it?

Re:Interesting Idea, but? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26118309)

The OP did. See Post http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1062399&cid=26117501 [slashdot.org] #26117501 about 3 parents up from this.

Re:Interesting Idea, but? (3, Funny)

passthecrackpipe (598773) | more than 5 years ago | (#26120683)

Results 1 - 100 of about 1,060 for A post-apocalyptic fun fantasy featuring an unlikely sexy hero fighting other players in space. (0.36 seconds) I guess they did....

eve online (4, Funny)

Digitus1337 (671442) | more than 5 years ago | (#26117621)

Disclaimer: I am a former WoW player and a current EVE player. I am not employed, nor am I (beyond the extent of being a player) affiliated with the makers of any game.

It's interesting to see how EVE is distinct and separate as compared to the other games. This is for a number of reasons, the first of which is the learning curve [eve-files.com] , but there are other factors. The learning curve tends to weed out teenage WoW players; being accused of engaging in anything but PvP leads to the derogatory label of "carebear". The focus on PvP coupled with the harsh punishment of failure (ships do not respawn, they are lost when they are destroyed, and all ships are player-manufactured) is enough to scare away some players that are able to overcome the learning curve. The game is not for casual players, but it -is- fun. If you haven't played, please give it a shot, there are trial periods available.

Re:eve online (3, Informative)

TOGSolid (1412915) | more than 5 years ago | (#26117689)

As a fellow Eve player, I do have to admit that on the surface the game seems to be grinding to an extreme. Mission grinding, Mining grinding, Pirate hunting grinding, etc. etc. If you never get out of the basic levels of gameplay in Eve, it will be an incredibly dull game and that is something I freely admit to anyone who is interested in getting into the game. However, I also make a point of stressing that Eve is also a game that you get out of it what you put into it. If you do choose to step out of that initial box, you'll find a game packed with political maneuvering, tense pvp combat, business simulation, and more. You have to go after it for yourself though, it won't be handed to you on a silver platter. This is definitely not a game for the anti-social.

Re:eve online (3, Informative)

TheLink (130905) | more than 5 years ago | (#26118103)

Re:eve online (1)

TOGSolid (1412915) | more than 5 years ago | (#26118807)

It makes me laugh actually.
Just petty people in 0.0 who take the game way too seriously. I have fought with both BoB and Goonswarm and found that 0.0 alliances are staffed with nothing more than very small people who's lives practically revolve around the game, but that's pretty much the norm for any 'high level' large game organization. The big guilds in WoW are equally moronic and pathetic.
Do what I want cause a pirate is free, I aaaam a pirate!

Re:eve online (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26121467)

This is definitely not a game for the anti-social.

This, sir, is entirely incorrect. It is the perfect game for the antisocial. I could write a long post disputing your statement and supporting mine, but I believe I can sum it all up in just one word.

Goonswarm

You will acknowledge that my statement is correct or I will wardec your corp and launch suicide attacks on your mining alts. ;)

Re:eve online (1)

LilGuy (150110) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122005)

Of the two mmo's i've played, eve and wow, I'd have to say eve is ten times more interesting. I played wow for a 15 day trial period and got bored by the end of it. I played EvE for it's 10 or 15 day trial period and was only becoming more intrigued. The difference between the two is incredible. Though I was starting to see where you could just mine for days on end and accomplish nothing of value, but once you level up enough the whole game is open to do whatever you want.

WoW just got boring as hell really quickly.

Re:eve online (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26117747)

In tune with the FP:

Every now and then someone comes along and breaks your wheel just for the heck of it. You are left there staring at the food bucket and your broken wheel.

You are given a choice of either fixing your broken wheel or trying to figure out something better to do with your life.

A) You fix your wheel and resume your running towards the food bucket. Congratulations, you may have what it takes to play EVE

B) You give up the wheel-fixing and maybe even leave the whole cage...

Re:eve online (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26120549)

Every now and then someone comes along and breaks your wheel just for the heck of it. You are left there staring at the food bucket and your broken wheel.

You are given a choice of either fixing your broken wheel or trying to figure out something better to do with your life.

A) You fix your wheel and resume your running towards the food bucket. Congratulations, you may have what it takes to play EVE

B) You give up the wheel-fixing and maybe even leave the whole cage...

(And just to round this thread out...)

B) "Condolences, you must have played SWG."

Re:eve online (4, Insightful)

TheLink (130905) | more than 5 years ago | (#26118063)

What discourages me from playing Eve Online are the keywords: "corruption", "rigging", "cover up".

That's like voluntarily choosing (and paying!) to live in a universe where you know the Gods (or demigods at least) are evil and corrupt.

Why bother when you are already forced to "enjoy such realism" in real life?

Re:eve online (1)

Crumplecorn (904797) | more than 5 years ago | (#26118395)

Why bother when you are already forced to "enjoy such realism" in real life?

Because, like real life, it's fun anyway.

I tend to be worried more about what's waiting behind the next gate than what CCP may or may not be doing to help an alliance I have never personally encountered in-game.

Re:eve online (3, Insightful)

nschubach (922175) | more than 5 years ago | (#26119073)

I never got into Eve... not for the "scandal" that happened, but because it always felt like what real life would be like in Space. Corporations running your life, pirates killing you for no other reason than, "You were there" and long waits.

This article cemented another reason why I don't like Eve as well.

Again, EVE players are precise and in agreement. They are playing against players.

I don't play games to compete. Call me weird, but I love gaming because you can gang up on some fictional enemy or artificial being, not some real person.

Re:eve online (4, Funny)

Narpak (961733) | more than 5 years ago | (#26118071)

Disclaimer: I am a former WoW player and a current EVE player. I am not employed, nor am I (beyond the extent of being a player) affiliated with the makers of any game.

The game is not for casual players, but it -is- fun. If you haven't played, please give it a shot, there are trial periods available.

I am sorry, I would if I could; but unfortunately I AM Employed.

Re:eve online (2, Insightful)

mrvan (973822) | more than 5 years ago | (#26118393)

I am sorry, I would if I could; but unfortunately I AM Employed.

That was my problem too. I loved elite and UIM back in the days, and it sounds like a great setting for a MMO. However, I would likely play onely a couple evenings per month, and it seems that light play is incompatible with both the game mechanics and the subscription scheme (ie you pay per time period, not per hour or something of use)

Need a pay per minute service (1)

Joe the Lesser (533425) | more than 5 years ago | (#26120811)

I'd still be playing WoW if I could forego the monthly payment and just pay for the times I actually login. But if I have a busy month it feels dumb to shell out 15 bucks for logging in twice to check auctions.

Re:eve online (1)

TheGeniusIsOut (1282110) | more than 5 years ago | (#26121219)

That is what is great about EVE, I'm an ADD gamer (not hyperactive, just easily distracted), switching between games as the mood strikes me, but my EVE character continues to develop because skill training continues while you are offline. When I am not in the mood for playing EVE, I just keep track of my skills and change them out as needed. Admittedly, this does not help my personal playing skills, but my character is on a much better footing for developing those skills when my desire turns back to busting up lowsec gate camps.

I have also played WoW, LotRO, EQ, DDO, and a number of other fantasy based MMOs, and they all have a similar appeal that EVE doesn't, and in fact is designed to prevent. In most MMOs, the goal tends to be getting to the level cap as quickly as you can to participate in end-game content. In EVE, there is no end-game, there is no level cap. There is no possibility of power leveling a character to cap by playing excessively, all characters are learning in real time. Someome starting today would never have as many skill points as an older character that continues to train, but skill points are not the end-all-be-all. True you have to get to a certain skill level to fly certain ships or use particular fittings, but it is the player's skill that makes the biggest difference.

The new certification system is a boon to new players and veterans alike, giving EVE newbies a guide as to which skills would be beneficial for a particular ship, and providing in game proof for your character's skill level for all players.

Re:eve online (1)

mongoose(!no) (719125) | more than 5 years ago | (#26119905)

I am sorry, I would if I could; but unfortunately I AM Employed.

I'm sure there are lots of people who are willing to trade!

Re:eve online (1)

biocute (936687) | more than 5 years ago | (#26118777)

Disclaimer: I am a former WoW player and a current EVE player. I am not employed

How can you afford to keep playing then without income?

Re:eve online (2, Informative)

Taevin (850923) | more than 5 years ago | (#26119143)

How can someone not afford to pay for one, with or without current employment/income? I don't exactly make a lot of money and still a one-month subscription at $15 is less than a fraction of a percent of my monthly income.

MMOs are one of the most cost effective forms of entertainment available, so playing one without current employment might actually be a better choice than other, more expensive pastimes. There are plenty of valid reasons not to play MMOs (ranging from concerns about time commitment to simply not liking them), but cost is really not one of them.

Re:eve online (1)

Joe the Lesser (533425) | more than 5 years ago | (#26121961)

You know, some people are actually poor, and have to make decisions like 'should I eat lunch or pay rent?'

Re:eve online (1)

Taevin (850923) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122201)

In which case they are not (or should not) be spending money on entertainment and thus, are not relevant to the discussion, or at least my point. To reiterate, my point is that with respect to forms of entertainment that require monetary payment, MMOGs are highly efficient. That is, the cost per available hour of entertainment is extremely low.

Re:eve online (2, Insightful)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 5 years ago | (#26118903)

The learning curve tends to weed out teenage WoW players; being accused of engaging in anything but PvP leads to the derogatory label of "carebear".

Wait, what? Aren't derogatory labels the height of juvenile ridicule? If the Eve gamers were really mature, wouldn't PvP be rare, and cooperation be the norm?

Re:eve online (1)

jason ward (581483) | more than 5 years ago | (#26120989)

Cooperation is the norm... in your own corp/alliance/guild. The games is basically divided into three large power-blocks with different ideals whose members work together for greater profit, defense, and stability. It's a minority who isn't involved in this in some way.

Re:eve online (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26121297)

Don't pay much attention to world events, do you?

Re:eve online (1)

Endo13 (1000782) | more than 5 years ago | (#26121793)

I gave the trial a shot. It lasted about 15 minutes. That's about how long it took for me to realize that my "character" was an entity I would never actually see, and I would be using a "pod" that was always stuck in some kind of ship. Space games have never had a big appeal for me anyway, and to spend all that time as a "pod" I cared nothing about just wasn't going to happen. And then a long time later I found out that the game is strictly about PvP that is heavily influenced by politics and corruption at the highest levels and I was even more happy that I decided instantly Eve was not worth my time.

Re:eve online (1)

Hausenwulf (956554) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123153)

This may be obvious, but probably needs to be said. When everyone starts out playing a game, they hope it will be good and they want to like it. If you hated a game before you tried it, you'd never bother playing it in the first place.

I tried to play EVE Online shortly after it came out. God was it boring. You'd do something for 2 minutes then spend 10 or 15 minutes getting to the next place where you'd do something else for 2 minutes. I used to watch tv during travel and canceled the game when I realized I was watching tv more than actually playing.

Sure, I know they've made changes to the game, and it might be better now. In my book though, a game only has one chance to entertain me. I don't continue to pay for a game that I don't enjoy playing (except maybe for UO when I didn't know better).

This is a gem from TFA (1)

DreamsAreOkToo (1414963) | more than 5 years ago | (#26117721)

Obviously, EVE is going to be a bit unusual here, given its non-fantasy setting. But the thing I find interesting about the EVE numbers is that EVEâ(TM)s players did not get creative with the traits. 91% said the setting was âoespace.â Everyone else said âoesci-fi fantasy.â The end. No long tail of craziness, no outliers, no one guy putting down âoegay.â

I think this reflects on the player base. I've never played Eve, but I have a feeling there's no equivalent of "Naked dancing mailbox elves" or general immature mischief.

Re:This is a gem from TFA (1)

epr (826666) | more than 5 years ago | (#26119093)

There are, we generally call them Goons.

Re:This is a gem from TFA (1)

BlackCobra43 (596714) | more than 5 years ago | (#26119099)

No, instead you have cheating players, cheting developpers, and griefers galore that spend 99% of their waking moment swarming over your hard-earned battlecruisers with hundreds of the tiniest, cheapest ship possible. Much more mature you see.

From the Article (1)

Narpak (961733) | more than 5 years ago | (#26118097)

A tiny handful of WAR players chose âoemassively multiplater,â but when I say tiny, I mean less than 1%. WAR players went overwhelmingly with RVR, with 45% of players choosing that trait.

Yes I think I would agree with them that I would prefer RvR over any type of Massive MultiPlater.

GamerDNA (3, Insightful)

Narpak (961733) | more than 5 years ago | (#26118283)

I haven't read GamerDNA before this and I probably won't start now. Risking a negative rating as some undoubtedly disagree with what I am going to write here I'll present my views regardless.

MMO Focus: Traits of Popular Subscription Games
The BlogPost is first of all presented with colours that make it hard for some of us to read. White on Black text causes me, and others like me, physical discomfort and can lead to migraines. Something several websites have yet to acknowledge. But be that as it may.

For something called MMO Focus it seems very unfocused at times, riddled with generalization, non-objective and unsubstantiated statements.

Simply put, there are a crazy number of people who boot up a game in order to play as a soldier. Sure, that's a reflection of how many games there are where the main character is a soldier of some kind, but the games wouldn't be produced if there weren't a tremendous hunger to portray that archetype. Interesting, given that our culture does not encourage people to become actual soldiers.

Okay. What culture are you speaking of here? MMO players hail from many different nations, and cultures, across the world and as such their views upon different "archetypes" could vary.

One thing MMO people do that isn't done by players of other genres is to identify very closely with their particular classes. This habit tends to fragment their "playing as" trait participation, since each game has multiple classes, and often unique names for the classes.

Really? Some do, some don't. Unless you provide some actual data substantiating this; it's just perception and generalization.

"Massively multiplayer" didn't even make the How It's Played list for EVE. The top How It's Played trait for EVE was "complexity" with 24%. A tiny handful of WAR players chose "massively multiplater," but when I say tiny, I mean less than 1%. WAR players went overwhelmingly with RVR, with 45% of players choosing that trait. 32% of LOTRO players selected "massively multiplayer," but almost as many (31%) chose "story." 29% of WOW players chose "raids" for How It's Played, a trait that doesn't appear in the lists of the other three games in our sample at all.

Okay... could the information here perhaps be presented in a way that is understandable?

WOW players are completely bonkers. They have given forty one possible options, at first glance. On second glance, the problem is getting them to agree on terms. LOTRO players, for example, all tend to simply say "NPC" when they mean any kind of non-player character, from monster to humanoid to instance boss. WOW players are moreâ¦creative. Terms include undead, demons, monsters, mobs, NPCs, elementals, murlocs, goblins, aliens, epic bosses, dragons, and more are all on the list, and all in statistically significant numbers, too. Once you lump them all into a single NPC category (and consolidate "alliance" with "alliance scum" and so on), you get a slightly more rational twelve traits.

I guess the amount of people playing WoW over the others dosn't affect the variation in their answers? And calling WoW players Bonkers is distracting and not helping presenting the "data" at all.

This time, LOTRO and EVE players are both tightly focused, and both WOW and WAR players canâ(TM)t seem to agree. Again, that's not a disadvantage in an MMO â" you want to appeal to as many people as possible!

Again, size of player base perhaps affecting some of these findings? The larger the base the more diversity.

Good luck with the project as a whole, though I feel you might want to reconsider your approach to how you interpret the data before you make it a fundament for any type of larger project.

Re:GamerDNA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26118833)

If you didn't understand, I'm afraid you're too new to the genre. I had zero problems getting exactly what the author was talking about.

Different strokes for different folks!

Re:GamerDNA (2, Informative)

jefu (53450) | more than 5 years ago | (#26120137)

colours that make it hard for some of us to read.

A while back someone put online the following which helps in firefox. Make this a bookmark and when you click it the page goes to black on white (losing background and text color, or background images) and resets link colors. Take out all the newlines and spaces and such.

Now to see if it survives being posted here.

javascript:(function()%7Bvar%20newSS,%20styles%3D%27*%20%7B%20background%3A%20white%20!%20important;%20color%3A%20black%20!important%20%7D%20%3Alink,%20%3Alink%20*%20%7B%20color%3A%20#0000EE%20!important%20}%20:visited,%20:visited%20*%20{%20color:%20#551A8B%20!important%20}';%20if(document.createStyleSheet)%20{%20document.createStyleSheet(%22javascript:'%22+styles+%22'%22);%20}%20else%20{%20newSS=document.createElement('link');%20newSS.rel='stylesheet';%20newSS.href='data:text/css,'+escape(styles);%20document.documentElement.childNodes[0].appendChild(newSS);%20}%20})();

Re:GamerDNA (1)

mazarin5 (309432) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122695)

Or, for that 1995 look: View -> Page Style -> No Style

Re:GamerDNA (1)

GrayNimic (1051532) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123385)

The BlogPost is first of all presented with colours that make it hard for some of us to read. White on Black text causes me, and others like me, physical discomfort and can lead to migraines. Something several websites have yet to acknowledge. But be that as it may.

I'm in the reverse camp - black-on-white text leads to eyestrain and headaches. To deal with the dark-on-light design of most websites, I need to keep the brightness/contrast of a moniter very low, which makes it hard to see any finer detail that may be present and leads to a different kind of eyestrain. Light-on-dark designs I can read without the discomfort, so I'm grateful to the web designers that use such colorschemes.

(as a side note, that's also the benefit for me of the "e-paper" initiatives - they tend to be non-lit/backlit surfaces, so the background brightness is controlled by the ambient environment ala a book or newspaper, which is FAR easier on my eyes than these CRT/LCD eyestrain devices)

Failed at statistics? (3, Insightful)

MSojka (83577) | more than 5 years ago | (#26118401)

Funny how the site chose four western MMOs (three of which are 90% the same old mainstream fantasy cliche stuff) and are basing their conclusions on that.

No big Korean, Chinese, or Japanese MMOs on their list. No free-to-play ones either. No browser-based, 2D or text-only MMOs.

Great way to show the whole internet you fail at statistics, guys. Here's a bit of help for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biased_sample [wikipedia.org]

Re:Failed at statistics? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26118455)

I have also noticed not just here but any time an article talks about MMOs in general Eastern MMOS and most free MMOs are left out.

Re:Failed at statistics? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26119403)

Probably due to the American perception that there "is no free lunch."

After all, if something's good, it just has to be ruthlessly exploited as a cash cow, amirite??!

Re:Failed at statistics? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26119491)

People tend to discuss things that interest them. These MMOs are probably not discussed because nobody, or very few, play them. It isn't that hard to figure out.

Re:Failed at statistics? (1, Troll)

Zironic (1112127) | more than 5 years ago | (#26118975)

How silly of them to use the most popular MMO's played by their readers.

Re:Failed at statistics? (0, Troll)

BlackCobra43 (596714) | more than 5 years ago | (#26119059)

Yeah evidently not displaying the fringe 0,0001% of the world's MMO population is a grievuous crime of bias.

Re:Failed at statistics? (3, Informative)

MSojka (83577) | more than 5 years ago | (#26119257)

> Yeah evidently not displaying the fringe 0,0001% of the world's MMO population is a grievuous crime of bias.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RuneScape [wikipedia.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MapleStory [wikipedia.org]

Both bigger than WoW.

Who's in the 0.0001% now? :)

Re:Failed at statistics? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26119547)

Not to mention I have never seen Final Fantasy 11 brought up in studies on MMOs. Considering it has almost 80% of the pay-to-play MMO market in Japan and over 1.5 Million subscribers that puts it in the top 5 for pay-to-play.

Re:Failed at statistics? (1)

Zironic (1112127) | more than 5 years ago | (#26120559)

They might have more accounts but I haven't seen any proof they have more active players.

Runescape can apparently handle a total of 320,000 players online at once. (160 servers, 2000 players per server)

Comparatively WoW has 236 servers in the US and 254 in the EU.

With an average of 1000 players per faction online at any one time:
http://www.warcraftrealms.com/activity.php?serverid=-1 [warcraftrealms.com]

That means WoW has on average 490,000 players online in the western world at any one time, that's way more then runescapes max capacity. Stop talking out of your ass.

Re:Failed at statistics? (1)

Zironic (1112127) | more than 5 years ago | (#26120575)

*Forgot to apply that there are two factions per server so the total is 980,000 players on average.

Re:Failed at statistics? (1)

Phrogman (80473) | more than 5 years ago | (#26120943)

Ah, if Runescape ever manages to have up to 320,000 players online at once, then that would most likely make it at least the 2nd largest MMO in the world, far exceeding the other games that were listed in the article.

This article had a massive NA-centric bias and excluded games which have massive populations far in excess of the majority of MMOs, presumably because they get played by players primarily located outside of North America.

I seriously can't wait until WOW dies off, not because I don't like it (I don't in fact like it at all), but because I hate seeing the responses from rabid fanboi types who leap to its defense if anything suggests that it might have its preeminence threatened in any way. To be honest I would feel the same way about a game I enjoyed playing. Its *JUST A GAME* :P

Re:Failed at statistics? (1)

Zironic (1112127) | more than 5 years ago | (#26121173)

That was my entire original point. It's an article written for an NA audience, of course it'll focus on the games most popular amongst that audience.

The entire point of their website is finding patterns among the games that their visitors enjoy. Accusing them of NA bias is like accusing the new york times of NY bias.

Yes Lineage, runescape and FFX may all have bigger market shares then LotR online but the readers of gamerdna are probably more interested in LotR anyhow.

"I seriously can't wait until WOW dies off, not because I don't like it (I don't in fact like it at all), but because I hate seeing the responses from rabid fanboi types who leap to its defense if anything suggests that it might have its preeminence threatened in any way. To be honest I would feel the same way about a game I enjoyed playing. Its *JUST A GAME* :P"

How would that help you in any way? The way MMO dynamics work (People will flock to the most popular game because that's what their friends play) means that whenever WoW dies it'll just be replaced by an equally big behemot that you'll probably dislike just as much that'll have just as rabid fanboys.

However to be honest I've never seen these rabid fanboys of yours. I've only seen their opposite, people that hate the game only because it exists.

Most arguments in favor of WoW are just saying that it's the best MMO out there, it's not perfect in any way, it's just the competition is worse.

Re:Failed at statistics? (1)

MSojka (83577) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122219)

> Accusing them of NA bias is like accusing the new york times of NY bias.

Not quite. Having a bias is ok. Having a bias while talking statistics and NOT making it explicitly clear which kind of bias one has and how it affects said statistics (like, say, this site does by trying to make it like they are talking about MMOs in general instead of only a small non-randomly selected portion of them) is at best simply inapt and useless, at worst disingenuous.

Re:Failed at statistics? (1)

Zironic (1112127) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122429)

Did you even read the article?

You're trying to warp that poor column into something it just never was meant to be.

All they did was compare what kinds of tags 4 different MMO's got and noticed they were fairly different. They never tried to analyze the genre.

You trying to critize the column for not being a proper statistical evaluation of the MMO genre is like me criticizing your post for not being a proper essay on the correct way to use statistics, obviously you're falling short on so many points it's a waste of effort trying to list them.

Re:Failed at statistics? (1)

denzacar (181829) | more than 5 years ago | (#26119363)

If there are no Koreans on your MMO server - you are not playing it right.
Might as well sit at your starting point and chat.

Re:Failed at statistics? (1)

Phydaux (1135819) | more than 5 years ago | (#26119453)

I don't think it is strange (or a fail) at all.

A western, and English, site chose 4 games that would appeal to the readers of the blog, and have a decent enough sample size to be able to draw any sort of conclusion.

How would it serve the article to talk about how, say Dragon Swords MUD, 100% of the players felt the setting was *teh gay!* because they only got one response?

I can't imagine that there are going to be enough English speaking people playing the popular MMOs of the eastern world, and who know of that site, and are filling in questionnaires to make the data viable to analyse.

It is just a blog, and written as such. Maybe for the pedants they should have included a bit more information, like the general locations of their respondents, number of respondents for each game, and possibly how certain demographics would be under-represented by their methods of data gathering. (They might do, I haven't looked at the site past the article.) But, to me, the blog is a nice casual look at the data they have.

Discovery Engine - The Matrix Online (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26118993)

Discovery Engine is a rather unfortunate name for their little project. The Matrix Online was built with the Lithtech 'Discovery engine', and we all know how that turned out... I'd hope.

Runescape? (2, Informative)

netsavior (627338) | more than 5 years ago | (#26119303)

I love how everything like this ignores the #2 (sometimes #3) MMO, Runescape, because it isn't as easily classified.
No character classes, skill based leveling, etc. Of course there is a giant base of 12-16 year olds that play it, but there are some "real people" too... not to mention it is one of the oldest surviving MMOs.

Forgetting About the Content: Their Analysis Sucks (3, Informative)

TyroneShoe (912878) | more than 5 years ago | (#26119451)

They put up some pretty useless graphs with very little information about how they arrived at those numbers and how they interpret them. It's worthless to make any inferences about all gamers without explaining their data.

First of all, they provide no checks for problems such as autocorrelation or multicollinearity between their various survey categories. That aside, it doesn't look like they even did any regression analysis at all. They, in effect, said "duhh, this is 10% of all the answers so it must mean something!". Bull. Just because the response rate for a particular category is 10% doesn't mean it is statistically significant in the academic sense.

Sorry, but as a professional data analyst, I get really pissed when people collect some (possibly non-random) data, do some half-assed analysis, post some pretty colors on a graph and say "Eureka! I haz solved wurld peez!"

Re:Forgetting About the Content: Their Analysis Su (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26120011)

Pretty much they're just putting it there to be interpreted as is. They're saying 'hmm that's kind of interesting how people categorize before dealing with correlation'.

This is pretty much all before actually correlating data and making actual meaning out of it.
It's essentially taking raw data and noticing a couple interesting pieces in it before you start to do anything with it.

Old fashioned Telnet MUD's are fun? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26119979)

The other day i was wondering where to ask gamers a question.
I'm on a budget so i play the old fashioned MUD's (google is your friend)
My favorite is Tempora Heroica
titan.ibiblio.org:2895
(Anyone remember telnet?)

Question is: how much more fun are the pay to play muds with the graphics and sound?

I have a good time just hanging out online, solving quests and teaming up.

Don't want to spend the money for the "newer" MMO's.

opinions?

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