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openSUSE Launches 11.1

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 5 years ago | from the i-am-lizard-hear-me-roar dept.

SuSE 173

Novell has unveiled their latest release to the openSUSE line with 11.1. Offering both updates and new features, Novell continues to push for more openness and transparency. The new release includes Linux kernel 2.6.27, Python 2.6, Mono 2.0, OpenOffice 3.0, and many others. "[...] Our choice was also influenced by impressive changes that are transpiring in the openSUSE community, which is growing rapidly and is also becoming more open, inclusive, and transparent. Last month, the project announced its first community-elected board, a major milestone in its advancement towards community empowerment. This is a very good openSUSE release and it delivers some very impressive enhancements. The distro has evolved tremendously in the past two releases and is becoming a very solid and usable option for regular users."

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173 comments

Frist Ninnle Pist! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26122107)

Screw SuSE!

Ninnle Linux is the way forward!

Re:Frist Ninnle Pist! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26122451)

where can I get ninnle linux?

Re:Frist Ninnle Pist! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26122657)

You have to have...connections.

Re:Frist Ninnle Pist! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26124253)

I've been using Ninnle for some time, and I can happily confirm that it is unsurpassed in terms of usability and performance.

The other distros have a lot of catching up to do.

Is This One the Microsoft Certified Linux? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26122171)

Because I can't seem to get Windows Genuine Advantage to run on it ...

Re:Is This One the Microsoft Certified Linux? (5, Funny)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122407)

You need Linux Genuine Advantage [linuxgenui...antage.org] .

Re:Is This One the Microsoft Certified Linux? (1, Funny)

pm_rat_poison (1295589) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122565)

My kingdom for a Funny mod!

Re:Is This One the Microsoft Certified Linux? (1)

GNU(slash)Nickname (761984) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123269)

OK, I modded you funny. Where's my kingdom?

Re:Is This One the Microsoft Certified Linux? (1)

Atti K. (1169503) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123635)

Your post just cancelled the mod. So, no kingdom for you.

Re:Is This One the Microsoft Certified Linux? (1)

pm_rat_poison (1295589) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123991)

Basically I was giving Kingdoms if you could give me a mod point so that I could mod the parent as funny.

Re:Is This One the Microsoft Certified Linux? (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26122489)

Yeah, it's Monopoly certified quality.

Re:Is This One the Microsoft Certified Linux? (4, Informative)

Anarke_Incarnate (733529) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122515)

how often does this bullshit have to be trotted out, only to make the poster (In this case, AC) look like a moron?

http://news.cnet.com/Microsoft,-Novell-spar-over-Linux-agreement/2100-7344_3-6137444.html [cnet.com]

Now stop it already

Re:Is This One the Microsoft Certified Linux? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26122879)

Hey look, it's cnet, must be a great read..... nothing there buddy, getting cooler all the time.

FIRST (or is it?) (-1, Troll)

xristoph (1169159) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122199)

It seems there is a hidden comment... cannot see it... Anyways, SuSE is not for slashdotters who deserve to be here ... use debian instead, or, if you're a little bit less adventurous, ubuntu! (actually, you should be compiling everything from source, but I think I've become too soft...)

Re:FIRST (or is it?) (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26122279)

Really slashdotters should be avoiding Ubuntu, Fedora, Debian and SuSE. Gentoo and Slackware FTW!

Re:FIRST (or is it?) (1)

Leynos (172919) | more than 5 years ago | (#26124371)

Real Slashdotters use Ninnle.

Dont Use It (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26122361)

Novell sold out to Microsoft. Stick with pure builds like the ones the parent listed.

Mod parent Funny! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26122581)

Since it doesn't look to be an anti-novell troll.

Not primarily or not solely, at least

Suse is not linux (1, Troll)

sjwest (948274) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122267)

It is an Microsoft os. Novell have gone to the darkside. Mono - oh dear NO Thanks.

Re:Suse is not linux (3, Insightful)

ThePhilips (752041) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122821)

Kids, you read too much of rabbid flames [boycottnovell.com] ...

As I'm concerned, SUSE is good OS. Let the rest be sorted out by GPL.

not completely off topic (3, Interesting)

FudRucker (866063) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122273)

paste from distrowatch weekly:

The Faculty of Physical Sciences at the University of Glasgow recently migrated their main logon server across to Slackware Linux. Shane Kelly writes: "A little while ago, the requirements for data transfer from some overseas research sites jumped tremendously, meaning I needed to assess the impact on our aging 'log in' server that was used as a portal to the Physics network." Their original server running SUSE Linux 9.3 had been working well, handling numerous login sessions, but its P3 CPU, 100 Mb network card and 96 MB of RAM were no longer enough to handle the increasing load. A new AMD Opteron-based server was selected and when it came time to choose a distribution, he headed here to DistroWatch.com to help decide. "I have never liked Red Hat (too many 'extras' between you and the operating system), ditto SUSE, and looking at the top twenty Linux distributions on DistroWatch, I could see that many were more suited to desktops, while many more had no 'pedigree' and were simply re-vamped editions of something else. Then my eye hit upon an old-timer that was said to be a bit difficult, devoid of GUI management tools, and rock solid. Yep, I'm talking about Slackware, the oldest surviving Linux distribution, now at version 12.1". The author is happy to be re-acquainted with his old friend Slackware and is recommending it to others for use on their servers.

Re:not completely off topic (0, Redundant)

pm_rat_poison (1295589) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122551)

This is only sliiiiightly out of date, Slackware is now on 12.2

Re:not completely off topic (1)

FudRucker (866063) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123883)

i am aware of that, it was a copy & paste from distrowatch, if i edited it then it would not be an accurate "copy & paste" regarless of the dated distro version posted. i have slack 12.2 running famously great on all my PCs (i been a slacker for years)...

Re:not completely off topic (1)

pm_rat_poison (1295589) | more than 5 years ago | (#26124017)

I am aware that you are aware of that, I just wanted to add my little piece of info to the paste. Contrary to what many people think, I AM literate

umm its not out yet (4, Informative)

asv108 (141455) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122345)

openSUSE 11.1, the next major version of the company's community-driven Linux distribution, is scheduled for release on December 17.

Re:umm its not out yet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26122501)

From their roadmap: Thu, Dec 18: openSUSE 11.1 public release [opensuse.org]

Re:umm its not out yet (5, Funny)

diersing (679767) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122511)

That's metric for today, Monday 15-December

Re:umm its not out yet (3, Informative)

arizonagroovejet (874489) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122761)

I can only assume the parent was modded to +5 informative by people who didn't read the very first line of TFA:

openSUSE 11.1, the next major version of the company's community-driven Linux distribution, is scheduled for release on December 18.

Copy/paste! How did you get 17, parent?

Re:umm its not out yet (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26123297)

So /. is actually ahead of breaking news for a change?

Re:umm its not out yet (0, Troll)

HermMunster (972336) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123573)

Can we please keep SUSE out of slashdot? I use linux for everything but Novell is pretty much a traitor and I want nothing to do with them. I'd hope others will remember how Microsoft is manipulating Novell to abscond with Open Source. Remember Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.

Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (-1, Troll)

IBitOBear (410965) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122365)

Until I see, in writing, that the Novel & Microsoft deal is vacated, I have to presume it isn't safe to use any Suse release. I have no interest in colaterally losing any of my Linux rights by being co-opted by some legal shenanigans from Microsoft.

Users Beware, Suse is no longer safe to use, and Suse news is, therefore, not to be considered of interest.

Re:Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (1)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122483)

[citation needed]

Re:Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (1, Insightful)

rickb928 (945187) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122517)

People say this stuff, but the truth is that Novell doesn't love Microsoft, they just see a business opportunity and a legal wrangle.

If Microsoft wanted to take on Novell again, they'd need a chair. AND a gun. AND a dog.

If I wanted to use SUSE, I would without fear. It's not Microsoft that I'm afraid of. It's Google. M$ is in decline. Google is not.

Re:Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (2, Insightful)

mixmatch (957776) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123695)

Google is such a terrible company. They go around pretending to be the good guys by helping open source projects [google.com] , promoting an open-source browser [battellemedia.com] , developing an open source browser and supporting webkit [google.com] , pushing standardization and inter-communication between chat clients [google.com] . pushing for the use of free (as in beer) software [google.com] . It clearly won't be long before we were wishing Microsoft was back and those rat-bastards at Google had never touched the web!

Re:Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (-1, Troll)

Foofoobar (318279) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122539)

Why is this marked as TROLL?? I know plenty of people who dropped Novell the second this happened. My whole company stopped using Novell the second they went with Microsoft and switched to Debian and Ubuntu. I know some people think this is trolling but alot of people in the Linux world feel this way due to the despicable pratices of Microsoft as a whole and that Novell is now pushing their agenda.

Re:Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (1)

Ed Avis (5917) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122691)

My whole company stopped using Novell the second they went with Microsoft and switched to Debian and Ubuntu.

Good for you. You did also stop using Microsoft, right?

Re:Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (0, Troll)

Foofoobar (318279) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122889)

Oh I see, you are trying to be clever and say because a company that has a monopoly on desktops should make a deal with a Linux distro, we should also dump all our desktops and be innoperative as a company? Yes, good business sense. You should be running a fortune 500.

So by your logic, if you owe money to the mob and are now in debt for life and you see your brother going for a loan, you should be 'happy'???

Re:Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (1)

Ed Avis (5917) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122987)

If it's a matter of principle to have nothing to do with Microsoft, then don't run Microsoft programs. If you're just picking the best software for your business to get work done, then there is no particular reason to drop Novell. You can't have it both ways.

Re:Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (2, Interesting)

Foofoobar (318279) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123409)

Principles have nothing to do with it... it's a matter of engineering.

Microsoft threatened lawsuits over 200 patents but licensed them to SUSE. Our IT dept (as well as many other IT departments) saw a potential for incompatible licenses after that licensing agreement and made a purchasing decision not to purchase SUSE or other Novell products due to potential incompatibilities in licensing.

It's more than principles... It's engineering and logic, stupid.

Re:Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (2, Interesting)

Ed Avis (5917) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123477)

Our IT dept (as well as many other IT departments) saw a potential for incompatible licenses after that licensing agreement and made a purchasing decision not to purchase SUSE or other Novell products due to potential incompatibilities in licensing.

Ahh... that's interesting. Still it does not rule out using OpenSUSE, which is not a Novell product (in the sense that they do not sell it, and OpenSUSE users are not Novell customers) and is not covered by the no-sue agreement.

Re:Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26123747)

What license incompatibilities? There are none.

The only thing that changed after the MS/Novell deal wrt using SLED/SLES is that you'd have been protected from law suites over patents from Microsoft.

You chose to make sure that Microsoft could sue you, grats.

There were no license incompatibilities then and there aren't any now.

Re:Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (1, Troll)

ThePhilips (752041) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122925)

Ironically, I know companies which started Linux (SUSE) adoption upon hearing the news about collaboration.

If nothing else, that was one huge pitch to use Linux coming from nobody else but Microsoft itself.

If you have business and have heaps of Windows servers and Windows clients, adopting something (e.g. RH or Debian) what isn't targeting heterogeneous environment where M$ dominates, is plain too risky. With SUSE the risk is much lower and calling Novell support on M$ vs. Linux compatibility is already an option. Try calling RH and complain that RHEL doesn't connect to Windows (or vise versa).

No, I personally do not like that Novell cooperates with M$. Yes, it is sound business decision which is needed now to spur wider Linux adoption. I hope that famous Novell lawyers know what they do. Let the GPL be with them.

Re:Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26122591)

I dropped Suse off ALL my servers the day that deal was signed. I mean, literally, on the day. The webcast ended and my centos cds came out.

Re:Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (5, Insightful)

Ed Avis (5917) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122605)

How does the Novell/Microsoft deal affect your rights? You have not signed it.

If it did affect your rights in some nefarious way, how would not using Suse counteract that?

But still, being aware to look after your rights is a good instinct. Just make sure it is based on facts not FUD. The Free Software Foundation has a list of free distributions [gnu.org] which meet their standards. The FSF is generally the most legally conservative and ideologically pure outfit in the free software world, so if you use something they have approved you can be pretty certain of peace of mind.

A reasonable alternative is to use a distribution which keeps a clear distinction between free software and non-free. Debian is famous for this, but Fedora (which is what I use) also has a policy to include only free software (in recent releases anyway). The difference with the FSF-approved distributions lies in loadable firmware, but you may not be concerned about that.

(If you don't want to use Suse because you dislike Novell's business practices and their deal with Microsoft, that's your choice, but just say so rather than inventing stuff about 'legal risks'. Or if you do know of legal risks, please explain what they are so that people can fix the problem.)

Re:Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (4, Informative)

ThePhilips (752041) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122967)

+1.

A reasonable alternative is to use a distribution which keeps a clear distinction between free software and non-free.

SUSE always made clear distinction between commercial/non-free software they include and core OS. Core OS always was and is GPL'ed Linux.

All software is installed with rpm - you can always grep for license.

Re:Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (1, Flamebait)

Ed Avis (5917) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123103)

SUSE always made clear distinction between commercial/non-free software they include and core OS. Core OS always was and is GPL'ed Linux.

You have a short memory. YaST was non-free not so long ago. I think Novell made it free software after they bought SuSE. Back in the day, SuSE intentionally tried to package non-free software without warning the user: see this talk by RMS [beust.com] :

Stallman made an additional remark about Linux. Many different distributions are available, and one day, he tried to install one of them called "SUSE". He noticed that SUSE installed non-free (from a GPL point of view) software, but didn't tell you so. They were concealing the fact that non-GPL software was being installed on your computer. Asked about this, the SUSE people told RMS that it was intentional, that they didn't regard this detail as important, but that mentioning it might worry people and discourage them from using SUSE. Bottom line : RMS says "Don't Use SUSE" (for those interested, he recommends the Debian, which is one of the rare things him and I agree on :-)).

Since then, of course, they've seen the light and nowadays OpenSUSE is pretty good (I believe) about making a fully free distribution. There was some debacle with a non-free EULA [lwn.net] on some beta releases, but I think that is resolved now.

Re:Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (3, Insightful)

ThePhilips (752041) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123315)

SUSE always made clear distinction between commercial/non-free software they include and core OS. Core OS always was and is GPL'ed Linux.

You have a short memory. YaST was non-free not so long ago. I think Novell made it free software after they bought SuSE.

Well, in the days I used SUSE very extensively. And, no, SUSE never tried to hide the fact that they ship and install non-free software.

What's more, if you would dig you memory, you might recall that they pretty much from day one were stating that it is impossible to build good OS with only free software. And they were always shipping commercial software. e.g. SUSE was first Linux to include movie editing software - in the times when there was no F/LOSS alternatives. They were also shipping MP3 support - because they acquired license for that. (*)

SUSE was openly stating that they are per se not free. You can make out of SUSE free OS - yet you would loose lots of functionality, making OS non-starter in any OS comparison. And SUSE was always comparable versus Windows and Mac OS.

(*) Freely downloadable ISO image not always included all goodies of the boxed retail version.

Re:Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (2, Insightful)

mkro (644055) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122641)

Yeah, we will keep coming back to that. From the article I recognized, of course, Banshee, Beagle and F-Spot, but Tasque and Monsoon were new to me. A quick search confirmed both are written in Mono. A bit further down:

OpenSUSE ships a modified version of OpenOffice.org that bundles Novell's patchset, which includes some nice improvements that Sun has declined to accept upstream for various technical and licensing reasons.

And another Ars article [arstechnica.com] says:

Many of these patches maintained by Novell provide important features that are valuable to Linux users, including support for embedded multimedia via GStreamer, (...) and support for Mono-based automation and scripting.

Mono does not seem to be just means to an end, but an end in itself.

Re:Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123859)

Mono does not seem to be just means to an end, but an end in itself.

Actually, this makes a lot of sense for an Office suite that tries to be MSOffice-compatible. See, according to Redmond, VBA is not cool today - it is being phased out and replaced by Visual Studio Tools for Office [microsoft.com] . And guess what technology are those "tools" based on, and what languages do they use...

Anyway, for Gtk# development, Mono is actually pretty good - I dare say, not any worse than Python - and quite a bit faster, too. Why shouldn't Novell use the fruits of their own labor to develop helper applications for their distro more rapidly? It certainly makes business sense for me. Similarly, RedHat invests heavily into Python, and uses it to write their own tools.

Re:Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26122737)

I haven't seen any *direct* relation between using Suse and losing rights.

But when switching to Suse, people *are* joining the subset of Linux users protected from Ballmers patent war dreams. They can feel at ease there. Nice and quiet. No worries.

Personally I choose to be on the other side, with the majority of OSS developers. That's where my code comes from.

Re:Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (1)

Ed Avis (5917) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122887)

But when switching to Suse, people *are* joining the subset of Linux users protected from Ballmers patent war dreams.

That's not the case. Only Novell customers (that is, those paying Novell for SLES) and Microsoft customers are covered by the no-sue agreement. OpenSUSE users are not included, so I don't think you are breaking solidarity in that sense.

Re:Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26122791)

this is the exact reason i will never use 'open' google ware. and as that news from google should not be considered of interest.

Re:Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (1)

jesterpilot (906386) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122893)

So, what great evil does await me when using this distro? Will it eat my bicycle or infect my record collection with the GPL?

Re:Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (4, Informative)

spirit of reason (989882) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123621)

Well, while you go on in fear, I'm going to continue using what I've found to be the most polished distribution for KDE4 users (out of Fedora, openSUSE, Kubuntu, and Debian). Fedora annoyingly included a pre-release version of xorg that didn't have driver support from nvidia or amd. I have no idea what's up with Kubuntu; the maintainers need to work a little harder at making it stable and fast. Debian is just missing some of the nicer GUI tools for system administration.

If you've got a better distribution to try, I'd love to hear it. (I'm really happy we have KVM ^_^)

Re:Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (1)

LWATCDR (28044) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123709)

You using X.org? Have you stripped out any Novell code from the Kernel? Did Banshee, FSpot?
So you don't use OpenSuse. I happen to like Unbuntu myself but that has nothing to do with the Microsoft deal. OpenSuse is a good system from what I have seen, We use it in our office because that is what our sysadmin likes.

Re:Still not safe to use Suse of any sort (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26124055)

Please take your American software patent problems elsewhere.

Thank you,
rest of the world

Where is the Novell Client? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26122475)

This is another release that will go months, if not years, before it has a working Novell Client. It seems that the left hand is never sure of what the right hand is doing.

Pushing or Straggling? (2, Insightful)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122531)

Novell is "pushing" for more openness? Why does it take "pushing"? Novell owns SuSE - it can just open it as much as it wants. Finally opening the project governance to the community that's been contributing for years isn't even "pushing", or at least not harder than inertia.

Novell does seem to be gradually getting around to opening SuSE. Which is good. But since SuSE could be doing even better if Novell just opened it more, and more quickly, bottlenecked by only it's community's maturity and not by corporate hesitance, I'm not believing this happy talk about "pushing".

Re:Pushing or Straggling? (2, Insightful)

ThePhilips (752041) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123073)

A reasonable alternative is to use a distribution which keeps a clear distinction between free software and non-free.

Unlike RH and some other companies, Novell didn't claimed any openness until community shaped around openSUSE.

Just recall Fedora earlier days: RH claimed it was open (in whatever sense they meant it), yet RH retained rights to do whatever it liked with it. And there was no community - or rather original Fedora community was simply excluded from the development process.

Novell did it right - they learned mistakes of Fedora and did none of them. They first forked and opened distro, assigned internal developers to it. Then they started listening to needs of people who actually wanted to participate. Time have passed and now most of the participation processes are established: anybody willing can participate. And now they claim that they are open. It can be better only in Debian.

Re:Pushing or Straggling? (1)

zartacla (1320359) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123123)

What more do they need to open, really ? Isn't openSUSE just SUSE minus commercial support ?

Re:Pushing or Straggling? (1)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123549)

If you read my post, you'd see the word I had a problem with was "pushing", not "opening".

Is it really trolling? (3, Insightful)

jfbilodeau (931293) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122571)

It seems that every post that points out the Novell/Microsoft deal are marked as troll or flamebait.

I know it's a hot issue and the Microsoft/Novell deal still bothers me, but anyone bringing up this issue is automatically tagged as troll. Care to explain?

Re:Is it really trolling? (2)

logixoul (1046000) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123013)

Sure.

The reason is that the Novell-Microsoft deal was discussed in length the month after it took place. Little is left to say.

Re:Is it really trolling? (3, Insightful)

ionix5891 (1228718) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123027)

um maybe because they are trolling

Re:Is it really trolling? (1)

jfbilodeau (931293) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123145)

It seems I was not alone with that impression. I agree that many of the replies qualified as trolling, but some of the 'insightful' replies are now marked as such.

For instance: http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1062891&cid=26122539 [slashdot.org]

Re:Is it really trolling? (1)

ThePhilips (752041) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123211)

Deal is between M$ and Novell. Between you (as user) and Novell stands GPL. Users are NOT affected by the deal.

If Novell truly goes to dark side... Stop. Actually, if you read history of Novell, you would notice that they are of the dark side: company run by lawyers (M$ being company run by sales).

Though point stands: flaming Novell for deal with M$ is silly and pointless as it doesn't affect normal SUSE users. On other side, business users (== paying customers) are more than happy about the deal and its future potential.

Finally, the anti-Novell trolls bring nothing to discussion, generally pissing on stuff I personally do not care - e.g. Mono or Moonlight or OOXML. I personally program in Perl, watch Flash movies and use ODF. I'm (as most of the SUSE users) in no part influenced by the deal (disclaimer: do not use SUSE at the moment).

I would mod up any informative post about e.g. Novell crippling GPL'ed software to please M$. Yet, only the same senseless rumors are getting repeated over and over again, bringing nothing new to discussion. So how should I mod them?

Re:Is it really trolling? (1)

hmar (1203398) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123347)

The posts I see marked troll all say simply novel bad...M$.. with no real insight. I don't see any marked troll that go deeper than that.

Re:Is it really trolling? (1)

DiegoBravo (324012) | more than 5 years ago | (#26124363)

Yeah, I don't care when I'm being modded as troll for a bad joke, but I hate when somebody is marked troll/-1 because of:

* being critic to Linux/Unix/FSF/Distros as if they were totems
* discovering something positive in/from the proprietary businesses (exception of google or IBM)

so I'm forced to read at lower mod level, and normally I don't have the time for it. Maybe it calls for a new mod tag with neutral punctuation: "Troll because of Atheism".

with Suse always wait for the .n releases (1)

nasogrumy (306555) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122767)

By experience I tend to avoid using the .0 releases as they are often buggy :/

Failed the Grandma Test (-1, Troll)

kenp2002 (545495) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122793)

Sorry this distro is still broken.

Once again it failed the grandma test.

Very simple test.

1 Blank Computer
1 Distro Install CD
1 Elderly female ages 60 and up with grandchildren.

Grandma must install it and do a simple series of tasks

1)Install the OS (this now includes connecting to the wireless network with WPA security)
2)Write a Letter to the Grand Kids in Word or PDF format (This includes setting up the default email client)
3)Email said letter as an attachment
4)Take a digital picture on the camera and save it to the computer
5)Print said picture
6) Turn the computer OFF (not sleep, hibernate, or standby)

That's all I ask. XP passes. OSX Passes. Vista passes.

Linux has never passed this test. (You cannot use a grandma more then once FYI. So I am running out of elderly people. Please someone else pick up the torch for the grandma test.)

Re:Failed the Grandma Test (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26122839)

I bet most women fail your girlfriend test too.

Re:Failed the Grandma Test (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26122983)

the sad part is there's probably only one requirement for that test

1. has warm squishy

Re:Failed the Grandma Test (5, Insightful)

Mr_Magick (996141) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122947)

I don't know what elderly people you work with, but none, I repeat, none of the people I work with have every known how to shut down or reboot Vista without me explaining.

MS has hidden the Shut Down and Reboot options under a very small, and unassuming button with a triangle on it in the very lower right of the menu. The Sleep button is the big, red button with the power symbol on it.

I know anecdotal evidence and everything; but your test fails for Vista on every user I have worked with.

Re:Failed the Grandma Test (1)

moderatorrater (1095745) | more than 5 years ago | (#26124257)

Why are you limiting yourself to Vista? I can honestly say that my 60+ year old grandma wouldn't be able to install any OS I've ever seen. I know very many very smart people who didn't grow up with computers that need help setting everything up still. The GP is an obvious troll. Connecting to the wireless router is a dead giveaway even without the other steps.

Re:Failed the Grandma Test (3, Insightful)

pembo13 (770295) | more than 5 years ago | (#26122981)

I have hard time belieeving your grandma was able to install Windows and not Linux. 1) Pop in Fedora Live , hit "Install to Hard drive" 2) Open up what word processor (usually only one on a Live cd) 2b) Type letter, save as/export as PDF 3) Open up Firefox/Gmail or Thunderbird send email 4) Take picture, plug SSD into SSD reader on machine 5) Here it gets tricky, can't remember if Linux distros auto add printers... then again I can't remember Windows auto adding printers either. And why exactly does your grandma test include installing and setting up and operating system?

Re:Failed the Grandma Test (1)

mR.bRiGhTsId3 (1196765) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123129)

Wow. You must know some extremely technologically savvy old people if you can find a grandma that can configure a mail client. I still sometimes have to pause and think about what the correct settings are.

Re:Failed the Grandma Test (0, Troll)

FictionPimp (712802) | more than 5 years ago | (#26124513)

Isn't todays default mail client internet explorer?

Re:Failed the Grandma Test (1)

mR.bRiGhTsId3 (1196765) | more than 5 years ago | (#26124635)

No, I'm pretty sure it's Windows Mail, iMail, Evolution or KMail.

Re:Failed the Grandma Test (1)

washort (6555) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123915)

I recently installed Ubuntu 8.10 on a new machine for my mom's business. It autodetected (correctly!) the HP inkjet plugged into it. CUPS is pretty snazzy these days.

Re:Failed the Grandma Test (1)

nschubach (922175) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123045)

Why write an email in Word or PDF format and attach it to the email? Why not just write it in the email client?

Re:Failed the Grandma Test (1)

kenp2002 (545495) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123749)

to test how accessable a word processor is. One of the most common activities at work is attaching a file to an email so we just create a document to attach. Feel free to switch it to a spreadsheet but last time I checked most grandmas know what a letter is more so then a spreadsheet.

Re:Failed the Grandma Test (1)

nschubach (922175) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123829)

What does your grandma attaching a document to an email have to do with work? My mother, who's a grandma (if it matters) has no trouble with this on any OS I've thrown at her except it wasn't word. It was a picture which is more common than writing a letter in a word processing program and far more likely. In fact, I can't think of a time when she's opened office/productivity software other than to make greeting cards with clip art.

Re:Failed the Grandma Test (1)

kenp2002 (545495) | more than 5 years ago | (#26124057)

Because it's a common activity. Nearly 30% of all email has an attachment according the documentation I have. If you can attach a document to an email it's pretty safe to assume you can attach a picture, mp3, video clip, etc.

Most people do three things:

Send Email
Surf the Web
Use a word processor

Those are three activities to test. You write and attach the memo to kill two tests at the same time. You don't get all day for these kind of tests so you have to compact you test cases down to a slim as possible.

Ethel, install this operating system by following it's instructions.
When you are done open a word processor and write a letter to some one and save it.
Go into the email program and set it up using the following settings ....
Attach the document you made earlier to the email. Don't forget to use the help if you need to.
Once you are done take a picture using this camera.
Connect it to your computer and save the picture from the camera to your computer.
Print that picture you just took.
Go to http://blah/ [blah] blah blah/ and check and make sure the date displayed is today's date.

That's what I give them almost verbatim. They are actually printed on those notecard you used in high school and college. Then the observers measure how easy it is for the user, how many times they check the help, ask questions, etc. To pass the user has to do all tasks within 2 hours NOT counting the OS install time. The OS must be installed to the local system, no cheating with Live CDs.

Linux has always failed. First and worse stumbling block, to this day is the Time Zone selection. They get confused looking at a map of cities. Why not just show the F'ing time zones to start? Seriosuly they all know they are in Central Time, why the hell would people in Minnesota pick Chicago (their words not mine.)

Next, Windows XP provides actual tutorials and a decent help system. Telling a 75 year old women to read the MAN pages or she's a moron doesn't get you a passing grade either.

With all the Linux fanboys and MS haters, they need a reality check that not everyone can write BASH scripts, use VIM\EMACS, and program in PERL. Linux suffers from a bad case of denial in the INTUITIVE department. Until you start using reason rather then hate the Linux crowd isn't going to get far in an actual discussion about why it keeps stumbling in the user department. It's sad and telling on how humans now communicate. Obama Sucks. MCCain sucks. Linux Sucks. MS Sucks.

Welcome to Idiocracy apparently. No no, no reason needed, just leave that whole reason stuff outside with the smokers.

It's just sad..

Re:Failed the Grandma Test (1)

Anonymous Cowpat (788193) | more than 5 years ago | (#26124119)

because that way tests the ability to use the word processor (and the various formatting function to get a decent-looking letter), the ability to save the file, the ability to attach a file and the ability to find where you saved the file (so, for instance, if the word processor saves to ~/Documents by default, and the email client looks for attachments in ~/ by default it may not be immediately obvious where the file has gone)

Re:Failed the Grandma Test (2, Insightful)

nico60513 (735846) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123179)

Your grandmother knows how to find drivers for her network card and install them? Wow. I'm impressed.

Re:Failed the Grandma Test (2, Insightful)

jfbilodeau (931293) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123237)

Erm...so your grandma can install an OS but can't turn the computer off?

And how the frack is grandma supposed to send an email in Word or PDF from a fresh Windows install? Did she also install Microsoft Office or Adobe Acrobat, or was she supposed to use Wordpad?

Re:Failed the Grandma Test (1)

GNU(slash)Nickname (761984) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123337)

I'm interested in more details about the ones who passed the test in XP and Vista. Specifically, how did they acquire the software needed to create a letter in Word or PDF format?

Don't feed the trolls (1)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123591)

Well played, master troll. You knew Linux live CDs pass these tests regularly with old and young alike. MS Windows is the OS that fails these tests (particularly installation; often no NIC drivers). You got myself and others to respond. Hopefully you're a Linux advocate using reverse psychology...

Re:Failed the Grandma Test (1)

neurovish (315867) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123923)

Your grandma knows what a mouse is?

Re:Failed the Grandma Test (1)

FictionPimp (712802) | more than 5 years ago | (#26124479)

My grandma managed to get windows xp installed. But then had a startling realization. She had no network drivers. It made it impossible to get a office application or any drivers to fix the problem. She thought about maybe driving to a library to get try to download them there, but she was without usb stick.

Then I bailed her out. So xp failed the test.

Where are "open" versions of SLES? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26122817)

RHEL has an "open" clone, CentOS.

Where is the "open" clone of SLES?

Anonymous Coward (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26123067)

Please link to the 11.1 live kde 4 iso

I hope this is better than SuSE 11. (2, Interesting)

Ecuador (740021) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123511)

I am a long-time SuSE fan, since it had the least problems with my hardware (esp. laptops), could get my favorite package manager (apt, although since 10.3 & zypper you don't need it), and its config tool Yast was better than most things out there. When our company needed 64bit servers (running VMware among other things) about 4 years ago, SuSE was the best option.
And with every version, it did get much better... until the dreaded 11. At first I installed a SuSE 11 beta on an AMD system to check out KDE 4. As you all know, KDE 4.0 was nothing to look at unless you were a KDE developer, so I didn't have much fun there as a KDE user, however I noticed that the system was VERY unstable, even for a beta. I am not used to seeing hard locks even on beta linux distros.
Anyway, I gave SuSE 11 a shot when it came out. I installed it on a very common Core 2 system (Asus mobo, fresh bios etc). A few seconds after you started KDE (random number), even WITHOUT doing anything, the screen would freeze, and there was nothing you could do, no ctrl+F1, or ssh etc, it was a hard lock. If you switched off and on, nothing out of the ordinary was on the system logs... Tried three clean installations, same behavior, gave up and reinstalled 10.3 (which was always fine). I never had a hard lock with out any clue in the logs, so I could not imagine how I could troubleshoot (without randomly trying things)...
Sorry for the rant, I hope I am allowed a little bit as a SuSE fan. Anyway really hope 11.1 is what 11 should have been for me...

Re:I hope this is better than SuSE 11. (1)

virtualXTC (609488) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123935)

Overall, its one of the most feature rich KDE based distros, and like in PCLinxOS, I love having the option to restart into another distro. I found the beta releases to have better hardware detection than 11, but the over all system ran too slow for daily use. Maybe my hardware is too old (amd64 Semperon 3200+ )?

After a month of testing, I gave up and went back to kubuntu, but the plasma bar's lack of auto-hide in KDE4 keeps me hunting for something better.

Torrent release also included (1)

Psicopatico (1005433) | more than 5 years ago | (#26123759)

Plz seeeeeeed!!

Python 2.6? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26124109)

This is surely a top-notch release. They're only one major version behind with Python.

Re:Python 2.6? (2, Insightful)

Xabraxas (654195) | more than 5 years ago | (#26124641)

Why would anyone ship python 3.0 at this point when it broke backward compatibility and probably doens't work for a large number of python applications?

Parents use it (2, Interesting)

CannonballHead (842625) | more than 5 years ago | (#26124121)

I set up my parents with openSuSE 11.0 on an older desktop of mine. It runs fine. They are using KDE 4.0. I have to fix a few things now and then, I had to show them how to use some stuff, but they are using it now to print (Canon MP210, network share... slightly buggy when accessing via network on XP but it still works), e-mail (gmail), web (firefox), video (can't remember the program), music (amarok, pandora), documents (openoffice.org, pdf reading), etc.

I'll upgrade my laptop to openSuSE 11.1 first and if it works, upgrade their desktop as well. Hopefully it will support the video card (Radeon 9800) drivers a little bit better.

Frankly, the Microsoft/Novell "evil deal" thing is extremely frustrating to me. I'm working with both SuSE and RedHat a lot at work now, and I frankly prefer SuSE to RedHat as far as usability. I've tried Ubuntu and I don't like Gnome, and it was harder to customize Ubuntu (at least for me) than SuSE 10.3/11.0.

No, SuSE did not pass the grandma-install test, but it passed the set-up-for-parents-and-let-them-use test.

Who cares? (1, Troll)

Vexorian (959249) | more than 5 years ago | (#26124511)

Yes, really, this is not even freshmeat material. It was not even released yet... Who cares? And well, as long as Novell is behind this I'd rather not care at all about testing it, it is not like the other distros didn't do a much better job at those things that were mentioned so eagerly in this slashvertisement...
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