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iPhone Tops Windows Mobile Share; MS Releases iPhone App

kdawson posted more than 5 years ago | from the late-to-the-party-but-getting-ahead dept.

Cellphones 269

walterbyrd notes that new data from Gartner indicates that the successful launch of the iPhone 3G was enough to push iPhone market share over that of Windows Mobile devices — the entire range of them. And reader Spy Hunter writes: "Seadragon Mobile is Microsoft's first iPhone application. Seadragon is a technology for streaming zoomable user interfaces, and this iPhone incarnation allows viewing huge collections of gigapixel-sized images over WiFi or 3G. If you don't have an iPhone, you can also try Seadragon in your browser via Seadragon Ajax."

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Innovation pays (5, Interesting)

alain94040 (785132) | more than 5 years ago | (#26126729)

When Apple launched the iPhone two years ago, they announced that their goal was to ship 10 million iPhones by year end. Frankly, no one had any clue how many or how few would sell. It was just a guess on the part of Apple management (really!).

And somehow, they hit the number and blew past Microsoft smartphones, Nokia and blackberry. For once innovation pays, I love it. In he last 5 years I was involved as an engineer with some of the companies designing cell phones. Ground-breaking innovation is not in their DNA. Instead, they take last year's technology and make it 20% better and faster. Middle management has no clue how to foster innovation.

You need those companies around because they drive down cost and make technology accessible. But you also need a few Apples that forego incremental improvements and shoot for the moon.

--
French iPhone Apps review site applicationiphone.com [applicationiphone.com] looking for contributors

Re:Innovation pays (4, Interesting)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 5 years ago | (#26126869)

Yup, it really is amazing. I don't think anyone could have guessed it would have done so well.

I wonder how much this says something about the iPhone and how much this says of the competition. Of the competition, the way I see them:
  - For me Windows mobile suffers from the fact it feel like a desktop OS shoe horned into a mobile device.
  - Palm lost focus and the separation of hardware into two separate companies that caused more problems than it solved. Then there was the fact they decided to go with Windows mobile.
  - RIM is still the better contender, but maybe purely focusing on a business solution limits the potential size of the market.
  - Android suffers from the fact they don't control the hardware, so the quality of the experience depends as much on the device manufacturers as the work Google does.

Re:Innovation pays (5, Interesting)

Cyberax (705495) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127017)

Android has good chances, but it has arrived a bit late. For most practical purposes it STILL has not arrived (G1 device is too 'niche').

Re:Innovation pays (1)

aztektum (170569) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127993)

Oh I know, the iPhone will always and forever be the greatest phone on the planet. The smartphone market will shrivel up and die except for iPhone sales. It was the same with the iPod! The iPod has forced every other mp3 player maker out of business! Nothing else could possible sell now.

No matter how long it takes Android to mature, there will always be a market for alternatives. Thus far Microsoft has not provided one (coming from a WinMo user) that works.

They won't remain the only show in town forever.

Re:Innovation pays (3, Informative)

mixmatch (957776) | more than 5 years ago | (#26128187)

The iPod has forced every other mp3 player maker out of business!

Yeah, all the other makers except for Microsoft [zune.net] , Sony [sonystyle.com] , Creative [creative.com] , SanDisk [sansa.com] , iRiver [iriver.com] , Archos, Toshiba, and a dozen generic Asian manufacturers...

Re:Innovation pays (5, Funny)

absoluteflatness (913952) | more than 5 years ago | (#26128241)

According to a recent article, you may be suffering from dementia.

Re:Innovation pays (2, Insightful)

644bd346996 (1012333) | more than 5 years ago | (#26128651)

I guess that, as they did for the mp3 player marker, Apple has shown the world that customers do care about quality a lot more than the established manufacturers give them credit for.

Once the competitors take that into account, Apple's market share will start to decline. But it may keep going up for quite a while before the competition catches up.

Re:Innovation pays (1)

recharged95 (782975) | more than 5 years ago | (#26128597)

Huh. Who cares about MS creating an iPhone app. I'm more interested in that Visa Mobile ad just above this post (mobile/micro payements)

And it's only available on the G1!

Re:Innovation pays (2, Insightful)

Ash-Fox (726320) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127521)

I don't think anyone could have guessed it would have done so well.

What? Beat one of the most niche market shares (Windows mobile) in the mobile phone market?

I could of guessed that, it's got a Apple logo.

Re:Innovation pays (5, Insightful)

SoupIsGoodFood_42 (521389) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127747)

Yup, it really is amazing. I don't think anyone could have guessed it would have done so well.

Some of use knew right from the moment we saw the demo that it would become incredibly popular. Of course, many of us also get ignored when we start ranting about how important usability is and how there is more to design than aesthetics.

Re:Innovation pays (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26127339)

"For once innovation pays"

Funny you say that. There is nothing the iPhone does that an old WM6 phone can't do. iPhone sells due to marketing. Same for iPods. Other MP3 players do more for less, but can't market like Apple can.

Re:Innovation pays (1, Flamebait)

jaxtherat (1165473) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127591)

I'm not sure I agree. Every mobile interface I've used before wasn't intuitive and felt rushed and unpolished.

The iPhone's interface is nice, so for those who can afford the whopping price tag, and don't mind the stigma of "ooh you've got an iPhone, you must be a Mac guy", it is an nifty phone/pda.

Everything else is either a phone trying to have PDA features (and failing), or uses windows (crash city).

Re:Innovation pays (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26127965)

My PDA has a phone in it. The interface is clean, simple and familiar. It does everything the Iphone does, and a HUGE list of things the iphone will NEVER be able to do.

Treo 650 if you were wondering.

I'm not bashing the Iphone, I don't have one, don't want one. I've used them though.

It's cute, but it's a really long way away from being a smart phone. There is no office software, there is no remote desktop, there is a pretty interface though. That is nice, but it's a very long way away from matching the feature set of my 6 year old phone.

So what makes the Iphone so awesome? Nothing. What makes it popular is the apple mystic and excellent marketing, but there is a reason serious business users shy away from it.

Re:Innovation pays (4, Insightful)

ssstraub (581289) | more than 5 years ago | (#26128121)

The interface of the Treo is borderline terrible. Familiarity != intuitive. If you can hand your Treo to your 65 year old grandmother and she can figure it out without you walking her through each step, I'll eat my hat.

The fact that I never have to use a stylus or navigate an extremely poorly thought out menu bar at the top of the screen makes an iPhone so much less aggravating as a portable device.

I've used a Treo, and I'd rather keep my old Motorola V300 than use one of those daily.

Re:Innovation pays (1)

mixmatch (957776) | more than 5 years ago | (#26128249)

Whats the obsession with overloading old people with technology? How useful is a PDA/SmartPhone if you cannot read the screen? I'd wager that any 65 year old lady that truly needed a PDA or SmartPhone is probably innovative enough to be able to figure it out, regardless of which model or manufacturer you give her.

The interface matters (5, Insightful)

sjbe (173966) | more than 5 years ago | (#26128237)

There is no office software, there is no remote desktop, there is a pretty interface though.

If you think the iphone interface is just pretty you haven't really used it despite claims to the contrary. While the iphone is hardly perfect it is a HELL of a lot more usable for most folks than any Windows mobile, Palm or Nokia phone I've ever held - and I've used a LOT of them. Seriously - a LOT.

As for remote desktop you are wrong [iphoneappl...onlist.com] , they do exist.

Regarding office software, I'm quite sure it will come for whatever it's worth. I've never seen anyone actually do anything genuinely useful to a word, excel or powerpoint file on a PDA or smartphone - and I'm pretty geeky about this stuff. It's a nice checkbox feature that never actually gets used. I had the ability on my last PDA and I never once used it. I can't even think of a situation where I would use it. Maybe you actually do but that would make you very unusual.

That is nice, but it's a very long way away from matching the feature set of my 6 year old phone.

My Nokia E70 has roughly the same feature set as my wife's iPhone. But you know what? Only on paper are they comparable. Other than the physical keyboard the interface on the iPhone is vastly superior - and the virtual keyboard works well enough. Yes I can often get the same stuff done but it's way more of a pain in the ass on the Nokia. Same with the Treos I've used in the past - some Windows mobile, some PalmOS. There is more to a mobile device than just a feature set - it has to actually be usable.

So what makes the Iphone so awesome? Nothing.

There are millions of folks who actually use one that would probably disagree with you, myself included. I've heavily used numerous smartphone and PDA devices from RIM, Nokia, Palm, and a bunch based on Windows mobile. For most (not all - most) people I'm not aware of a device I could honestly recommend as better than an iPhone. If you have particular needs, yes there are other good devices that might suit you better. But the iPhone isn't selling so well because it is mediocre - it actually works pretty darn well. I can't say the same for a lot of other "smart" phone devices.

What makes it popular is the apple mystic and excellent marketing, but there is a reason serious business users shy away from it.

No, the reason business users don't use it is because Apple hasn't created the back end security and administration features corporate IT departments REQUIRE and RIM currently provides. Apple has recognized this and made some moves in that direction but it will take time to develop. It has nothing to do with any inherent superiority of blackberries as devices. I've used plenty of them and they are fine but corporate types don't use them because of the device itself - they use them because of the infrastructure.

Re:The interface matters (4, Insightful)

kklein (900361) | more than 5 years ago | (#26128661)

Thanks. I get so tired of the grumpy "featurism" of Slashdot posters. My old phone did everything and more than what my current iPhone does... on paper. In truth, I never got the music player to work anywhere near as well as my iPod, the display of Office documents was illegible, I couldn't find contacts worth a damn, every time I installed a program, it didn't work, and even though it had a 2 megapixel camera with optical zoom, the pictures from my iPhone look as good or better.

You can't judge a product by reading a feature table. You have to try to actually use it. What Apple did is what they always do: Take a product that someone already thought of, and made it actually do what the original people promised.

Re:The interface matters (1)

644bd346996 (1012333) | more than 5 years ago | (#26128723)

Regarding office software, I'm quite sure it will come for whatever it's worth. I've never seen anyone actually do anything genuinely useful to a word, excel or powerpoint file on a PDA or smartphone - and I'm pretty geeky about this stuff. It's a nice checkbox feature that never actually gets used. I had the ability on my last PDA and I never once used it. I can't even think of a situation where I would use it. Maybe you actually do but that would make you very unusual.

I frequently find myself away from a computer but wanting to refer to some piece of information out of a Word document that's attached to some email I got. Often, it's minutes from a meeting. Being able to read (and preferably search, too) Word documents is pretty useful. I've never felt the urge to compose or edit a Word doc on a phone or PDA, though. Simple spreadsheets occasionally, but I usually am better off using a clipboard and typing the data in later.

Re:Innovation pays (1)

cgenman (325138) | more than 5 years ago | (#26128667)

Nothing. What makes it popular is the apple mystic and excellent marketing...

If that was enough, we'd all be watching Apple TV's [apple.com] while jotting notes into our Newtons [wikipedia.org] . Heck, Apple was one of the first Digital Camera manufacturers [retrothing.com] and had a video game console [theapplecollection.com] .

Apple's "mystic and excellent marketing" is clearly not enough to sell any old box. Really, you might want to look into why the iPhone is so popular. I'm sure Palm as we speak is adjusting the Treo line with the lessons learned from the iPhone.

Full disclosure: I'm a prior treo 600 owner. It has a much better keyboard than the iPhone, but for everything else I prefer Apple's little machine.

Re:Innovation pays (1)

KanSer (558891) | more than 5 years ago | (#26128679)

Uhh, dude. There are not only multiple versions of remote desktop clients but also a smattering of Office clones.

Don't worry, we will see a real office suite soon. (I want one too!)

Saying there is no remote desktop is ignorant as balls. http://www.mochasoft.dk/iphone_rdp.htm [mochasoft.dk]

Re:Innovation pays (1)

jrothwell97 (968062) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127667)

However, the execution is better. It's more polished, and the touch screen actually works well, which is more than can be said for any other smartphone I've used.

Re:Innovation pays (5, Insightful)

konohitowa (220547) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127691)

I've had numerous cell phones over the past 15 years from a variety of manufacturers, as well as a few PDAs. The iPhone is the first of them that I really use regularly for a variety of tasks. The interface is relatively easy to use, the applications perform well, and updates and syncing are straightforward. This isn't about any individual component in the mix, it's the overall integration.

As to the innovation, Apple is the first company to tell the US wireless carriers that the cellphone vendor is defining platform. In the past, you never really knew what features you were going to get and what features would be removed so that the wireless carrier could charge you to use the feature. I can't imagine that Verizon would have agreed to network changes in order to support visual voicemail without having it disabled by default and then charging on a per message basis (or some other equally obnoxious plan). In fact, Verzion probably would have required that all of the interface buttons be reordered or some other silliness like they seem to do with so many of the Motorola phones they carry. Apple also worked to ensure that the data plan was unlimited so that you would be encouraged to use the device without fear of bandwidth charges.

Certainly there are improvements to be made - it's not as if it's perfect by any means - but at least I know that I can get upgrades as they come out, rather than getting a device that gets little or no improvement over the course of my 2 year contract. Or one that requires me to go track down a kiosk and hope for the best.

Re:Innovation pays (2, Informative)

ssstraub (581289) | more than 5 years ago | (#26128141)

Verizon DID add visual voicemail, and yep, they charge a monthly fee for it [wired.com]

Hilarious.

Re:Innovation pays (1)

kklein (900361) | more than 5 years ago | (#26128699)

SoftBank here in Japan charges a monthly fee for it, but I don't actually pay for it because I get maybe 1 voicemail a year and don't mind paying 20 yen to retrieve it. It's less than 315 yen a month.

Re:Innovation pays (2, Informative)

digitalchinky (650880) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127359)

Apple fanboy? Dude, at least read the summary. Nokia are still leaps and bounds ahead of Apple. It's doubtful they'll lose that spot anywhere in the next few years. If you were 'really' involved with any cell phone company, particularly as an engineer, you'd know that almost every hardware function of either of the two iPhone models thus far has been a knock off of stuff Nokia (and many others) have been doing for several years already. So it has a cute little finger sensitive display, this is not new either, but what else is actually innovative? Everything it does is simply following spec sheets that others have forged long before them.

Wake me when they come up with technology that really does forego any incremental improvements, and actually does consist of stuff that nobody else has already done 4 years ago.

Re:Innovation pays (4, Insightful)

dogmatixpsych (786818) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127437)

There are two types of creativity (innovation) - thinking up things no one has done before and taking what a bunch of people have done before and putting it all together. Apple does some of the first but mostly does the second type. They not only put it all together, they do so in an attractive package that usually works well.

Re:Innovation pays (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26128611)

You're forgetting the third type of innovation, which is to do what others have done before, but a little bit worse, and a few years later.

By this measure, Microsoft is a very innovative company.

Re:Innovation pays (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26127689)

Keep snoozing we'll let you know. Moron wouldn't know innovation if it bit him on the nokia. It's not the parts, it's not just the interface, it's the whole banana. If anyone else had had all of it in one place and implemented it properly they would be where Apple is you idiot.

Re:Innovation pays (1, Insightful)

geekmux (1040042) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127789)

Apple fanboy? Dude, at least read the summary. Nokia are still leaps and bounds ahead of Apple. It's doubtful they'll lose that spot anywhere in the next few years. If you were 'really' involved with any cell phone company, particularly as an engineer, you'd know that almost every hardware function of either of the two iPhone models thus far has been a knock off of stuff Nokia (and many others) have been doing for several years already. So it has a cute little finger sensitive display, this is not new either, but what else is actually innovative? Everything it does is simply following spec sheets that others have forged long before them.

Wake me when they come up with technology that really does forego any incremental improvements, and actually does consist of stuff that nobody else has already done 4 years ago.

Ah, in case you hadn't noticed, people are buying up this "stolen, recycled" engineering in droves. Do you think I really give a rats ass who invented the shatterproof coating on the windshield when I'm shopping for my new car? Hell no. Do I care who invented the fuel injector design? Hell no. Speak to me in things I DO care about, like a quality product, which is exactly what Apple has delivered, and they're reaping the rewards from it.

Wake me up when you've found that mind-bending design you keep holding your breath for. With todays ADD fashion, you'll find more "innovation" coming from the Marketing department than the Engineering "recycling center".

Re:Innovation pays (1)

x102output (536049) | more than 5 years ago | (#26128283)

Um....implementation of said features?


Also, Nokia (or anyone for that matter), has not designed capacitive touch in the same way Apple has. Apple has patented the technology (this is why all other touch-screen phones suck compared to the iPhone) and no one can really use it. Kind of like how they wouldn't allow synaptics to make a circular touch-pad for any other mp3 player. Anyway, lots of engineers in the industry really were blown away by the way Apple implemented capacitive touch. It was "innovative"

Re:Innovation pays (2, Informative)

boredhacker (1103107) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127403)

somehow, they hit the number and blew past Microsoft smartphones, Nokia and blackberry

I would *love* to see something that backs up this assertion.

Last I checked, Nokia has way more overall market share AS WELL more 'smartphone' market share.

Re:Innovation pays (1)

SCHecklerX (229973) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127495)

What's so innovative about the iphone? Not trolling, I really am curious what is so innovative about it.

Re:Innovation pays (1)

Lars T. (470328) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127627)

Well, there is one (physical!) button to put it in "quiet" ring-mode - judging from many rings where there shouldn't be any, that must be a real tough one on other phones.

Re:Innovation pays (4, Insightful)

LibertineR (591918) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127643)

Well, I am no Apple Fan-boy, but I'll say this about the iPhone.

I have never come across a device that allows me to use it how I LIVE, more than the iPhone does. Most every device forces you to adapt to how it works, make changes to how you like to do things in order to get productive use out of the device. The iPhone just seems to fit like a glove to how I like to do things with a smartphone.

I dont have to compromise, I just use it, it works, especially the GPS feature.

Re:Innovation pays (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26127941)

The web browser is a really big improvement over anything I've used before on a phone. From the way it handles zooming (with the "pinch" gesture) to the way they implemented "tabs"... very nice given the low amount of screen real estate. Don't get me wrong, I love Opera Mini on my Sony Ericsson - it's just much smoother.

Visual voice mail is pretty cool - though I don't get enough messages to make it worthwhile. I'm not aware of any other phone that had it.

Ditching the keyboard led to a really nice, thin phone. I don't know of another manufacturer that sold a keyboard-less device - much less one with the other features of the iPhone.

The integration of the music/video player with the other phone functions is pretty top-notch. Other phones get this right, but not combined with the above.

The interface itself is very useful and, dare I say... fun? Things wiggle and vibrate and smoothly slide around. The gestures are simple and intuitive. Everything is well-integrated. Nothing feels "alien" to the phone.

The on-screen keyboard is the best I've seen. It takes a little while to hit it accurately, but it is usable. I'd still choose a blackberry for heavy email, but to be honest you really need to just wait until you are sitting in front of a computer :)

All that said, I didn't get one. It's not really what I'm after and it requires an expensive plan. The cost of the phone is not really significant, since the plan dwarfs it. It would also consume me, since I can't help but dick with stuff. Say goodbye to a week of my life as I jailbreak it.

Re:Innovation pays (1)

cgenman (325138) | more than 5 years ago | (#26128551)

The iPhone was the first phone I haven't wanted to throw out the window immediately. A touch screen interface to a phone works much more intuitively than a pen or small trackball, and the multi-touch allows you to really maneuver around oversized data without too much hassle. The e-mail / phone / internet / ipod integration is simple and straightforward. And how phones had gotten by without Google maps prior to the iPhone is befuddling.

Really, what makes the iPhone good is how all of the steps of the process comes together. Tap the camera icon, get a screen with the camera feed and the camera button. If someone you don't know calls you, you can just click the arrow next to their call in the recents list and create a new contact. Further, click the blank spot where the photo should go, and pick from a screen full of photos. Comparatively, on my old LG you had to hit the guide button, click around on an old joystick to get to the camera function, choose target data storage and a couple of photo styles, take the picture, name it, etc etc etc.

Really, the iPhone was a break with the interfaces of old, with nearly all of the annoying or confusing components removed.

There are a lot of problems with the iPhone. A real keyboard would be nice, or at least a bluetooth keyboard connection. Copy / Paste is sadly missing, without an obvious way of integrating. And then, of course, there is the sad lack of GPS turn-by-turn.

Now that someone has created a sample platform, I suspect that other developers will extend and push the paradigm forward. I hope they do. There is a lot of development left to go, and I hope nobody simply ceeds the space to Apple.

Re:Innovation pays (1)

Achromatic1978 (916097) | more than 5 years ago | (#26128689)

When Apple launched the iPhone two years ago, they announced that their goal was to ship 10 million iPhones by year end. Frankly, no one had any clue how many or how few would sell. It was just a guess on the part of Apple management (really!). And somehow, they hit the number and blew past Microsoft smartphones, Nokia and blackberry.

Pardon? They did what? From TFA:

Nokia, meanwhile, maintained its number 1 spot with 42.4% in market share. iPhone market share jumped up to 12.9% during the third quarter of 2008

Yeah, I guess they really, uhhh, blew past Nokia, selling one iPhone for, uhhh, ummmm, every 3.3 Nokia smartphones being sold.

The RDF is strong in this one...

congratulations (5, Insightful)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 5 years ago | (#26126805)

You can complain about cut and paste or how the iphone is locked down or too expensive or doesn't run linux, but it's been a real donkey punch to the industry, and even rival companies acknowledge (and applaud) it for raising the bar (at least in the US).

Re:congratulations (4, Informative)

Anthony_Cargile (1336739) | more than 5 years ago | (#26126893)

Well they ported some portions of Linux [insanelymac.com] (sorry fanboys) to the iPhone, apparently enough to at least boot it and use it without sound, touch, wireless or any other major iPhone pluses.

And as far as it being a 'real donkey punch' to the industry, MS actually writing an app for it pretty much confirms this, although they have also written ads in Flash despite marketing Silverlight :p.

Re:congratulations (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26126975)

You can take the company I work for as a small example of what a groundbreaking change it has been.

We had about 8 treo 700w's (WM5) as our first mobile platform for our small firm. They were buggy and a total PITA. We decided that we would wait for 3g on the iphone, and compare it to whatever WM had, and upgrade then. It was no contest. WM 6.1 still is a dog of a mobile platform, and we not only upgraded those 8 people, we added another 5. Half our company is on the iPhone, and there was very little training or expense outside migrating from Verizon to AT&T. I can't see us ever considering WM again.

Re:congratulations (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26127229)

You can take the company I work for as a small example of what a groundbreaking change it has been. Half our company is on the iPhone, and there was very little training or expense outside migrating from Verizon to AT&T. I can't see us ever considering WM again.

That migration cost was exceeded only by the loss of the other half of the office, whom were outsourced to afford the shiny new iPhones overcharges for using it as a data modem...

Re:congratulations (4, Insightful)

roc97007 (608802) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127311)

> You can complain about cut and paste or how the iphone is locked down or too expensive or doesn't run linux, but it's been a real donkey punch to the industry, and even rival companies acknowledge (and applaud) it for raising the bar (at least in the US).

Yes, I can, (except, who cares if it runs linux?) and also complain about 3G/Edge issues, dropped calls, and lack of MMS and flash and java. But despite all that it demonstrably kicks Windows Mobile's butt. (In fairness, from a technical standpoint, it was an easy butt to kick.)

The biggest lesson the industry needs to take from this is: People use Windows Mobile devices because they have to. People use i-Phones because they want to.

Microsoft promotes the "have to" mentality by selling interoperability and similar look-and-feel with Winders and Winders-related services. As more and more people (and corporations) realize that the Start button is not a good paradigm for a phone, and sufficient interoperability can be achieved without having to put up with the Windows Mobile code base, Windows Mobile will diminish to an also-ran and, like Disco, we'll all look back and wonder what madness made us think we liked it.

However, these other issues still need to be fixed. Here's hoping that Apple isn't so arrogant to believe that they can innovate *once* and retain the market. Nokia and RIM now have offerings that are similar in concept, without the drawbacks. Apple set the bar -- now they need to show us how to rise above it. Merely increasing the memory in the next model will not be good enough.

Personally, I'm still clinging to my old beat-up Palm-based phone whilst I see how Apple fixes the problems enumerated here in the next release. Or if someone catches up to them in the meantime.

For example, my daughter is a rabid user of MMS with her Blackberry Curve. On an i-phone, I'd not be able to receive her messages. That is not acceptable. Having a cool interface is not an acceptable substitute. Apple, give us the features we really want, instead of the features you think we should be using, and there will be no stopping you.

Re:congratulations (1)

gutter (27465) | more than 5 years ago | (#26128501)

However, these other issues still need to be fixed. Here's hoping that Apple isn't so arrogant to believe that they can innovate *once* and retain the market. Nokia and RIM now have offerings that are similar in concept, without the drawbacks. Apple set the bar -- now they need to show us how to rise above it. Merely increasing the memory in the next model will not be good enough.

Judging from their actions with the iPod, I don't think you'll have to worry about them standing still. For all the talk about about people catching up to the iPod, Apple generally improved it faster than the competitors caught up, improving capacity, form factor, and interface at an impressive pace while keeping prices flat or decreasing them.

Considering that they did the same thing from the first iPhone to the second, I think it's unlikely they're going to stand still and wait for the industry to catch up. As far as I can tell the other companies are copying the concept, but from the reviews they aren't even close on the execution.

My guess is that like the Zune, they'll get there eventually, but by then the iPhone ecosystem will be too entrenched to lose, like the iPod ecosystem is now. Sure, other players are available and even competitive, but all the accessories will be for iPods and iPhones.

Interesting (2, Informative)

boyter (964910) | more than 5 years ago | (#26126845)

The most interesting thing is that Seadragon must use Javascript or something similar but not Silverlight for the deep zoom it provides.... I just came out of a Silverlight presentation and deepzoom was hailed as its party piece... hmmm

Re:Interesting (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26127011)

There is a Silverlight, AJAX, and iPhone version

http://livelabs.com/seadragon-ajax/
http://livelabs.com/seadragon/silverlight/
http://livelabs.com/seadragon-mobile/

Re:Interesting (1)

boyter (964910) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127077)

Ah so there is. Odd... the MS representative was trying to sell us on Silverlight because of its implementation of Deepzoom. I didn't even know there was a javascript version avaliable.

Microsoft releases iPhone app FAIL! (2, Funny)

whoever57 (658626) | more than 5 years ago | (#26126847)

According to several reports, Microsoft released a broken app called Seadragon. [yahoo.com] Apparently Microsoft achieved its expected quality goal.

Re:Microsoft releases iPhone app FAIL! (0, Troll)

whoever57 (658626) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127201)

Apparently pointing out that MS's first app to be released for the iPhone is broken is trolling. Well done MS fanbois!

Re:Microsoft releases iPhone app FAIL! (1)

Kalriath (849904) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127353)

It is when the source is an obvious Apple fanboy (a column called "Apple Ink"? Duh!) and is needlessly trollish ("Apparently Microsoft achieved its expected quality goal") rather than simply being a statement that there is broken functionality.

Seadragon isn't an app (1)

EmbeddedJanitor (597831) | more than 5 years ago | (#26128047)

it's a technology! So says their website!

Microsoft seems to be less about programmers and more about wordsmiths. Technology instead of application, innovation instead of stealing an idea...

Google Maps (1)

TD-Linux (1295697) | more than 5 years ago | (#26126861)

Somehow, the Seadragon Ajax demo seems oddly familiar...

Hmm... (4, Informative)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 5 years ago | (#26126871)

Remember, remember. [youtube.com]

Now, the iPhone isn't my cup of tea at all; but I believe the term is "p0wn3d."

Re:Hmm... (4, Funny)

IorDMUX (870522) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127081)

Now, the iPhone isn't my cup of tea at all; but I believe the term is "ph0wn3d."

FTFY

Re:Hmm... (1)

2nd Post! (213333) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127347)

Not "ip0wn3d"?

Old, dying turgid software ... (5, Insightful)

hattig (47930) | more than 5 years ago | (#26126935)

Is it surprising?

WinCE was originally developed as a PalmOS competitor/beater, running on fat Psion 5 look-a-likes with dire keyboards, snail-like interfaces and the stability of Mount Etna.

Since that time the platform has remained the same. The browser is still ancient, and their best promises for the next version are "IE 6" quality, i.e., irrelevant. Sure, there are new interfaces, the software is a little more up to date, the kernel has been switched to a more modern variant, it does wireless, bluetooth, 3G, etc, but it's still the same at heart. Rubbish.

Microsoft - you could sell iPhone Office for $99 and make a mint. Or you could sell licenses to WinMob+Pocket Office to manufacturers for cents. Microsoft have always said they'll develop where the market is. If the iPhone and iPod Touch ecosystem continues to grow, surely it is but a matter of time before they develop iPhone viewers, and then editors, for their file formats - before the formats become irrelevant... Pocket Project for iPhone would result in many a fevered brow in managers' offices around the world.

Re:Old, dying turgid software ... (1)

MMC Monster (602931) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127701)

I'm pretty sure my iPhone can open MSWord .doc files without any added application installed.

Re:Old, dying turgid software ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26127997)

Microsoft seems to have adopted Computer Associates' software upgrade strategy.

WRONG !! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26128111)

MS sells ce for $3 a pop but that's the basic OS. Windows Mobile is a lot more, and you have to commit to 100k units, and that's just one OEM. There are a whole lotta OEMs doing Windows Mobile, nevermind CE6 itself (a different product). Given the iPhone apps at iTunes AVERAGE about ONE dollar, and only a few more than $25, it would seem reaching to suggest MS could sell anything there for anything close to $100. They get about $30 for Windows Mobile, per unit, and all the end-user support (co$tly) is the onus of the OEM, or end seller.

since they are the market leader (4, Funny)

mevets (322601) | more than 5 years ago | (#26126955)

can we expect an onslaught of viruses? It is much easier to attack a single platform, if I understand the virus marketing info properly.

Re:since they are the market leader (1)

d34thm0nk3y (653414) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127665)

can we expect an onslaught of viruses? It is much easier to attack a single platform, if I understand the virus marketing info properly.
No, that is the reason Apple won't let you run an iTunes competitor. If I understand the Apple marketing properly...

Re:since they are the market leader (1)

cgenman (325138) | more than 5 years ago | (#26128193)

We've never had a properly secured platform as a monolithic target. It will be interesting to see whether or not the iPhone can prove or disprove the old addage that the #1 platform will inherently be virus prone, or if that was just excusing poor programming.

Simple? (0, Troll)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127019)

Where can I get a phone? You know, something that lets me talk to anyone, anywhere? Not a camera, not a pda, not a music player, not a videogame, but a phone. Anyone?

Re:Simple? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26127107)

For $5/mo the local phone company will rent one to ya. You might try your local Wal-Mart, they have, Phone. For $10 bucks you can get one that has push buttons. If you want to get fancy they have Phone that are cordless on the ghz spectrum.

Re:Simple? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26127109)

There are a lot of simple phones out there, and they out sell smartphones by several orders of magnitude.

It's just that they're not sexy enough for people to talk about.

Go buy a Nokia 1200 [trustedreviews.com] or something and leave us alone.

Re:Simple? (1)

Free the Cowards (1280296) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127693)

Several orders of magnitude? Several means at least 3, so you're saying that simple phones outsell smartphones by at least a thousand to one. Are you sure?

Re:Simple? (1)

Goaway (82658) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127117)

Yes, technology can be pretty scary and unsettling, but there are plenty of simple phones for those who think technology isn't really for them. Such as http://www.dorophones.com/ [dorophones.com] .

Re:Simple? (1)

T-Bone-T (1048702) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127145)

I'm not sure you can, but no one is forcing you to use the "Menu" button.

Re:Simple? (1)

maxume (22995) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127153)

Walmart.

Re:Simple? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26127241)

why is it every time something about cellphone anything comes up one of you bitches comes along and says this bullshit and everytime someone points out the tons of no frills cellphones out there? just buy one already you stupid fucking fag.

Re:Simple? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26127375)

Except that the applications on cellphones aren't generally available during talk time, making them practically useless for people who get lots of calls.

It's best to SEPARATE telephone and PDA/etc where you can do BOTH. Might be a bit cumbersome, but fuck, it's better than trying to do something important and being bothered by a call (one important enough that you can't just put it off).

This is the problem with the marriage of phone and PDA, and modern society is too dumb and enthralled by gee-whiz technology to realize it.

AC because I know everyone here is too dumb and enthralled by gee-whiz technology to do anything but mod me down.

Re:Simple? (1)

flerchin (179012) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127681)

You're just wrong on that, and if you don't know it, it's only because you're too stubborn to think about it.

You can't buy a smartphone (eg, a phone/pda combo) without getting a wired or wireless headset so that you can operate the PDA while taking a call.

Re:Simple? (1)

onefriedrice (1171917) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127367)

JitterBug [jitterbug.com] . This phone also has an am/pm clock built in, so I hope that doesn't overwhelm you.

Re:Simple? (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127395)

Where can I get a phone? You know, something that lets me talk to anyone, anywhere? Not a camera, not a pda, not a music player, not a videogame, but a phone. Anyone?

I like how you came into a smart-phone thread to ask about how to get a not-smart-phone. "...but I was
only in there to get directions on how to get away from there."

Mr. Sid part deux? (2, Informative)

Foldarn (1152051) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127233)

That Seadragon stuff is old. When I was in the Marines, it was a technology called Mr. Sid. It was pyramid-based layers of an image that allowed you to zoom seamlessly all the way down to the natural resolution of an image... and could be handled on a 500 MHz Pentium 3 with easy. My PC here at work was kinda struggling with the Seadragon bit.

tops? (1)

ignavus (213578) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127235)

The iPhone is not at the top of the Windows share, it is a non-Windows mobile phone that exceeds the Windows share.

If I top the class in a subject, I am the best student doing that subject. So if the iPhone tops the Windows share, it would be the highest-selling Windows-based mobile phone. Which is false.

So the title is misleading and/or confusing.

Re:tops? (4, Funny)

Kickersny.com (913902) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127331)

So the title is misleading and/or confusing.

Welcome! You must be new here!

Re:tops? (1)

petershank (463008) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127341)

The iPhone is not at the top of the Windows share, it is a non-Windows mobile phone that exceeds the Windows share.

Yeah, it's a misplaced modifier. Perhaps more clear would be:

Apple surpasses Microsoft in race for share of smartphones.
or
iPhone surpasses Windows Mobile in race for share of smartphones.

I presume all of the flavors of smartphone OSes from Redmond (Windows CE, etc.?) are all lumped together, and iPhone still has the lead?

Re:tops? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26128109)

Learn to quote, idiot.

Re:tops? (2, Informative)

2nd Post! (213333) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127385)

What English are you using? "Tops" is a verb that means "bests" or "surpasses".

And in this case, the usage is perfect. The iPhone surpasses Windows Mobile Share; or, in other words, "tops".

iPhone achilles' heel (4, Insightful)

caywen (942955) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127261)

I think the iPhone has one major achilles' heel which is Apple's ludicrous approval process. Developer frustration is beginning to boil over as many go weeks and months without so much as a peep as to where their hard work stands. And then after waiting for so long, they get notified that there's a misspelling, or that Apple doesn't like your icon. If they continue to alienate developers like this, and if Google, RIM, Nokia, and Microsoft provide a far more open experience, I think you'll start to see this juggernaut start to slow down. Other factors include just how much stupid stuff an AppStore user has to wade through to get to the good apps, and the extreme fragility of the Xcode code signing / deployment system is (sudden 0xE8000001 errors with the SDK 2.2 update, anyone?) iPhone is a good platform to develop for, but Apple's inability to get its SDK tools solid and its completely confusing, inconsistent, and nebulous approval system are just plain painful.

Re:iPhone achilles' heel (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26128093)

the thing about a lengthy approval process is that it's kept up the quality of applications into the app store... but the moment that it looks like some other application marketplace can take over, they can relax the approval process literally overnight to compete. Associating your product with other products that work isn't a dumb idea really.

Re:iPhone achilles' heel (3, Interesting)

Gordo_1 (256312) | more than 5 years ago | (#26128309)

Well, you know you're probably right to an extent. But the flip side to the arrogance shown developers is that Apple has managed to centralize, simplify and ensure a certain quality of apps for users. Apple has the upper hand right now because they've attracted a lot of eyeballs by addressing problems that no other cell phone company seemed able to address. Time will tell whether their arrogance will hinder them.

As a dedicated Blackberry Bold user myself (who regularly plays around with his girlfriend's iPhone 3G) I am left with a distinct 'last-generation' feeling when it comes to finding, installing and using apps designed for the blackberry. Of the ones that I manage to install (typically OTA via sms-sent URLs), many are designed for last-generation low-rez BBs or are converted java-midp apps that don't map navigation keys the same way RIM does... Or they're very buggy, or cause the OS to crash. Don't get me wrong, it's a plenty usable email device and good mobile phone, but it's missing a certain attention to detail when it comes to end-to-end user experience that Apple seems to have achieved with the iPhone and App Store.

Re:iPhone achilles' heel (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26128443)

Yea...because I as a consumer really care about the developer relationship. Granted, if Apple doesn't start to pay attention to good business practices now that they have a chance to compete fairly, they will shoot themselves in the foot again- just like they did back in the 90s.

If Apple has one problem, it is that they do not understand how to foster business relationships. All they care about is the fact that they create the coolest stuff that people want.

They could care less about the people who are writing apps, distributing hardware, repairing hardware, or providing third party support.
Figure it out Apple.

M$ Apps for iPhone = cute (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26127265)

I'm not surprised Microsoft is allowing iPhone apps from their research division to spring forth into the wilderness. At a point years ago, software for Apple was Microsoft's #1 revenue stream. At least this admits they're iPhone-curious.

Re:M$ Apps for iPhone = cute (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26127439)

i see it more as microsoft isn't the bunch of bitches that apple is and doesn't have a bug up their ass about 100% control. that's my take on it.

what's cute is a little faggot like you defending apple. you're a shit stain on the underwear of humanity. fucking queer.

Re:M$ Apps for iPhone = cute (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26128107)

MS is like Britney Spears? They're both i-Curious [britneyspearsbeauty.com] ?

Seadragon? (1)

onefriedrice (1171917) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127283)

Seadragon, huh? Mozilla called and they want their naming scheme back.

I have to laugh at myself a little bit (3, Interesting)

DJRumpy (1345787) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127377)

I originally laughed at the folks who stood in line days before the release to be sure to get the first ones out of the store. I thought it was insane to pay that much for a phone or to treat it like the latest Star Wars movie. That is until I got curious and watched a few demos on the apple site a few months after it's release. I had no idea that touch technology had gone so far, or that the folks at Apple had done it so well. I was simply floored.

The techie in me took over shortly after that, and I began losing sleep until I chose to go to the store and buy one (1st gen 2G).

It's been an odd journey for me. I was a Windows guy. Not a fan by any means as their pricing and licensing infuriates me, but I didn't use any other OS as a primary.

Since my iPhone purchase, I have since purchased my first Macbook Pro, and bought my second 3G iPhone. Don't get me wrong. I see the same sort of corporate headedness from Apple that I saw from MS. Maybe not as extreme in most cases, but it's there. That being said, Apple does do things in a very polished manner which makes the attempts to lock you into Apple much less 'painful'. I just don't know how else to describe it.

All because I had to get curious about what the fascination was all about.

Kudos on what has to be one of the most innovative and most duplicated pieces of tech for the last few years running.

Re:I have to laugh at myself a little bit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26128365)

Kudos on what has to be one of the most innovative and most duplicated pieces of tech for the last few years running.

care to tell us what you're talking about? and please don't say the iphone... just because that kind of thing is new to *you* doesn't mean the rest of us were that clueless.

Proves that 'innovation' is not just tech (1)

Bearhouse (1034238) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127381)

Oh how we bitched and mocked about the iPhone V1, (me included). Locked down, no 3G, GPS... 'Geeks' users I know were all disppointed by their purchases.

But the market is not geeks; it's my wife, teenage kids and other technical 'don't care' or illiterates - I think the iPod is poor value, (and don't get me started on iTunes) - but they all rejected the (cheaper, more functional) mp3/4 players I offered them and wanted iPods. (Although they do prefer MediaMonkey to iTunes).

So the market did not listen to us geeks, and bought a shitload. As Apple knew. They were in no rush for 3G, because they knew they could still sell a bundle, and still keep something back for the next generation to boost demand further. Wonder what the saturation point will be? What's the next compelling updgrade?

The Apple advance continues, based around smart brand marketing and ease of use. Lessons for linux there, eh? Geeks may prefer BSD, Red Hat or whatever, but Ubuntu shows where it needs to go. When/if it gets like OSX then it finally will be the 'year of linux on the desktop'.

Microsoft's only foray into WinMo was (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26127653)

Voice Commander. It worked extremely well, provided you spoke decent English. MS stopped selling it several years ago and now makes it available only to OEMs. Piracy killed the voice commander star. No one bought it but it was all over the place. It didn't work in later WinMo versions, so that was the end of that.

more apple nonsense, suprise.... (1)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127785)

the stats released compare phone sales, not the under lying os. http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=827912 [gartner.com] . how do they arrive at the conclusion when the "other" category shows 7000k units sold vs the iphones 4750k? what os is the other 7000k phones running do you think?

Re:more apple nonsense, suprise.... (1)

timmarhy (659436) | more than 5 years ago | (#26127815)

oops that'll teach me not to scroll down. 4720k to 4053k. my mistake

Re:more apple nonsense, suprise.... (1)

INeededALogin (771371) | more than 5 years ago | (#26128225)

Motorola. Basically, Motorola hadn't reported the amount of devices that they had sold so they couldn't be broken out from the other category. Note the -20% growth in the other category. That is all Motorola too.

Great... (1)

Rycross (836649) | more than 5 years ago | (#26128003)

I'm seriously debating whether I want to stick with the iPhone myself. Its a great phone... when it works. I've already had to have it replaced by Apple four times for myriads of issues, including the negative black problem, dead zones on the touch screen rendering menus unusable, and consistent lock-ups during boot that would make my phone unusable for 12-hour stretches of time. I'd really like a phone with a great interface that just worked.

It doesn't help my opinion of Apple that my MacBook's internal fans are making an exceptional amount of noise. I really want to love these products, because they're neat, but I don't want to dump my cash into unreliable stuff.

Re:Great... (1)

abigor (540274) | more than 5 years ago | (#26128213)

You have incredibly terrible luck. My Macbook has taken a beating, including being dropped onto cement and accidently left inside a smoking hot metal trunk, and not a peep. Not one iPhone that I use or that anyone I know owns has failed for any reason, and some of these things see massive usage (movie industry people). And my iPod Nano has been through hell and back due to my travels - dropped more times than I can remember, left lying in super hot direct sunlight, buried in sand - and it works fine, although it's pretty scratched up. Maybe I should buy a case for my next one.

What Gartner really said (3, Informative)

ClosedSource (238333) | more than 5 years ago | (#26128265)

"The success of iPhone 3G sales in the third quarter of 2008 propelled the Mac OS X to the No. 3 position in the global OS provider rankings. For the first time, iPhone sales exceeded sales of Microsoft Windows Mobile devices worldwide and in North America."

So in the 3rd quarter of this year, iPhone sales exceeded sales of MS mobile devices in the same period. Unless you define "market share" in terms of the last quarter sales only, MS devices still have a larger market share than the iPhone.

Apple FUD (1)

rtechie (244489) | more than 5 years ago | (#26128383)

First, just because Gardner says it doesn't make it gospel. Gardner DOES blackmail companies to include them in their surveys and they have a bias towards US companies. I suspect this survey basically excludes the Asian market. So the results are highly suspect.

Second, the article on Edible Apple is highly misleading in implying the marketshare of the iPhone is greater than that of Windows Mobile. It is not. The marketshare of PHONES SOLD IN Q308 ONLY is 12.9% vs. MS' 11.1% in a quarter when Apple introduced the 3G and Windows Mobile had no significant product launches. Many people were waiting for the HTC Touch Pro.

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