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New York State Budget Relies On Entertainment Tax

CmdrTaco posted more than 5 years ago | from the i-thought-mass-would-do-it-first dept.

The Almighty Buck 655

einer writes "Facing a budget shortfall, New York State Governor David Paterson crafts a budget that taxes iPod music downloads and other 'digitally delivered entertainment services.' On the chopping block is $700 million in school aid and $3.5 billion in health care subsidies."

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paying the fps (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26145437)

Luckily there is more than enough tax payer's dosh to keep us fp'ers employed

Re:paying the fps (3, Insightful)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145719)

That's always the case, say the politicians.

They will lose more votes cutting services just a little bit than by adding another straw to your back, which is to say, cutting funds to people who get money from government.

I can't imagine why businesses are fleeing overseas, with all this bread-and-circuses genius floating around like turds tied to balloons choking things more and more each year.

Even if you think every single law and every single payment level is needed, sooner or later the arteries clog and the heart stops, choked with a hundred balloon angioplasty stents.

The politicians won't grow balls, so you have to grow them for 'em.

Re:paying the fps (3, Insightful)

tripdizzle (1386273) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145913)

I can't imagine why businesses are fleeing overseas

The US has on of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, so businesses move overseas to avoid that. If we lower the rates, the businesses would probably come back here, and those tax rates would actually start generating some revenue, rather than forcing business overseas and producing no revenue.

Re:paying the fps (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26146231)

I thought there were a lot of loopholes to get large companies out of paying the 'highest tax rates in the world'
Maybe I should stop listening to politicians...

Easy Remedy for Those Looking to Avoid (5, Informative)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145441)

Simple solution if you think this is unjust highway robbery targeting the technically gifted: Find a friend or family living in a different state and get their address. Call your credit card company and add their name and address to a billable location for your credit card. Then when you set up your credit card information on iTunes or Amazon or whatever, list their address as the billing address. They can't apply the tax even if you are downloading in NY.

Re:Easy Remedy for Those Looking to Avoid (4, Funny)

FooAtWFU (699187) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145473)

Simple solution if you don't have someone to do this to: Head over and shop music the old-fashioned way, in New Jersey.

Re:Easy Remedy for Those Looking to Avoid (4, Informative)

aesiamun (862627) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145543)

Did you forget that an entire state is attached to that hole they call New York City? Some of us live in the middle of the state...with NY State already taxing Amazon purchases, the drop of education money and the 18% tax on non diet soda, I have a feeling NY doesn't want people living here anymore. :(

Re:Easy Remedy for Those Looking to Avoid (4, Interesting)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145757)

They'll be losing me next year! Honestly, why do people stay in this high-tax state? I lived in PA before and the state took 3% income tax. That's an ADJACENT STATE! NY takes 7%, for reference... New Jersey has this radically progressive tax schedule where the poor pay 8x less than the rich, so it's difficult to compare with New York.

To be fair, sales tax is lower by 2%. Of course I live in the city, so pay an additional 3 or 4% income tax and 4% sales tax - but the situation was similar in Philly.

Re:Easy Remedy for Those Looking to Avoid (1)

electrictroy (912290) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145901)

>>>with NY State already taxing Amazon purchases

They are not allowed to tax Amazon because amazon does not lie within New York's jurisdiction. Ditto if I were to sell an item to you directly - I'm in Pennsylvania and not bound by NY Laws and therefore not obligated to collect tax to pay the NY Legislature. The NY politicians can kiss my shiny-metal ass.

Re:Easy Remedy for Those Looking to Avoid (1)

hal9000(jr) (316943) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145953)

>>>with NY State already taxing Amazon purchases

They are not allowed to tax Amazon because amazon does not lie within New York's jurisdiction. Ditto if I were to sell an item to you directly - I'm in Pennsylvania and not bound by NY Laws and therefore not obligated to collect tax to pay the NY Legislature. The NY politicians can kiss my shiny-metal ass.

Sigh, until a case is made to a higher court, yes, NY State can and does tax on-line orders.

Re:Easy Remedy for Those Looking to Avoid (5, Interesting)

Coopjust (872796) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146081)

Amazon is charging tax on Amazon orders placed by NY residents despite the fact that Amazon has no facilities in NY due to an unconstitutional law that hasn't been challenged yet. It says if you have an affiliate in the state (like, affiliate links), you are liable to pay tax.

Newegg.com started doing it too, but two months later they sent an email to NT residents that stated (in a nutshell), "We looked at the law with our lawyers and there is no way NY could ever win this. They'd be stupid to take it to court. Therefore, we're going to stop taxing NY customers again."

Somebody has to take this law to court. The problem is, no one has the balls to.

Re:Easy Remedy for Those Looking to Avoid (2, Informative)

Hijacked Public (999535) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146239)

And Amazon or some other online retailer will have to be the ones to do it.

While it is fun to imagine powerful corporations ratifying our collective will as directed by their testosterone level, for them it will come down to a simple business decision. If the impact of complying with the law (or the risk of not) is greater than the cost to litigate it, they'll litigate it. Imagining any other motivation for a business is self deceit.

Re:Easy Remedy for Those Looking to Avoid (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26146129)

Actually, you are dead wrong. Interstate commerce is a little difficult to understand, but the reality is that any time you purchase goods that are DELIVERED in New York, as a New York State resident you are obligated to pay tax on that delivery.

As internet commerce has grown, the states have been steadily closing this loophole. Some more aggressively than others, but expect this to be the case everywhere considering the massive budget shortfalls most states are facing.

Also, I hate to say, but its not entirely fair to blame New York City for its high taxes. Most of the tax revenue collected in NYC gets disbursed around the state. Nobody makes any friggin money except people who live and work in the city, and its a constant war between city and state government over how city taxes get apportioned. As a city dweller, my taxes would be significantly lower if we did not have to fund government infrastructure upstate. But then, there wouldn't BE any government upstate if the city stopped footing the bill.

Both New York and Connecticut are in serious trouble with the banking failure. We've lost more than 300,000 of the highest paying jobs in the world, which were responsible for almost 20% of the respective states income tax collections (both corporate and personal). The result is catastrophic, and now we have to pay the piper for years of unchecked and unregulated growth.

Re:Easy Remedy for Those Looking to Avoid (1)

docgiggles (1425995) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145549)

Does it matter? How much tax can there possibly be on a 99 cent song download. If this is passed, the feds could get the same idea. I am in favor of it because I don't know anybody who actually pays for music anymore, much less uses iTunes. Your average schmo will end up donating $5 to help schools stay afloat. Not a huge deal.

Re:Easy Remedy for Those Looking to Avoid (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26145691)

The average schmo already pays money in order to keep the public schools afloat.

Re:Easy Remedy for Those Looking to Avoid (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26145865)

Everyone pays money to keep schools afloat. Its called a property tax.

Re:Easy Remedy for Those Looking to Avoid (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26145855)

Money from schools typically comes from property taxes. The city of Minneapolis wanted to pass a $200 increase per year property tax so we could "prop up" the schools. It boggles the mind when you realize that they have less facilities to run and even less enrollment year after year. Most of the money they asked for wasn't even budgeted to anything specific. They are strapped for cash yet there is plenty of money for TV and radio commercials to urge people to "vote for kids."

Re:Easy Remedy for Those Looking to Avoid (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26146111)

Of course it matters. It's a slippery slope. If you let them institute a seemingly inconsequential tax on a music download, then before long, they will be taxing everything you upload or download on a per bit basis. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. repeat it. repeat it. repeat it. repeat it.

Sleazy (5, Insightful)

qoncept (599709) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145447)

"Let's propose tax cuts where it'll hurt em so they'll favor our new tax."

I wish I had mod points! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26146185)

That is exactly right. Target the spots that hurt the most and will get the most publicity and keep the dead weight there.

On the positive side (2, Informative)

truthsearch (249536) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145481)

Well, on the up side he's trying to raise more money through products rather than income taxes. I'd prefer the taxes on ipods, cigars, gasoline, and luxury cars to income tax increases. Of course if it hurts NY businesses (I don't think it will), then it'll hurt in the long run. But the state needs to stop bleeding money immediately.

Taxing consumption? (1)

Samschnooks (1415697) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145519)

I'm with you!

If taxed consumption instead of taxing income and savings, we wouldn't be in this economic mess we're in now.

Re:Taxing consumption? (1)

electrictroy (912290) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145995)

I never thought of it that way. Good insight. Sales tax discourages consumption, and instead encourages saving money.

It's almost like a sin tax - "How dare you buy a new $5000 computer? We'll slap you with a $1000 tax to discourage such wasteful spending. Go put that money in your kid's education."

Re:Taxing consumption? (1)

imamac (1083405) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146033)

Neil Boortz, is that you?

Re:Taxing consumption? (1)

Ollabelle (980205) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146097)

Actually, I think we'd be an even deeper mess. Let's face it, the only activity left in our "economy" is borrowing money against the value of our assets and spending it. Tax - and therefore discourage - consumption, and the economy will drop yet further. Until the value of the dollar drops enough that imports are painfully expensive and we can manufacture/export again, there's nothing left for us to do.

Re:On the positive side (2, Interesting)

Fastfwd (44389) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145541)

Why not use income taxes for services that apply to everyone like education and health?

I agree that other things like road maintenance should be taxed on products like gas.

I am Canadian so taxing the income is just normal to me.

Re:On the positive side (1)

plague3106 (71849) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146225)

Public roads benefit me far more than public eduction or health care.

Re:On the positive side (1)

aesiamun (862627) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145567)

18% tax on non diet soda? You support the so called obesity tax?

Re:On the positive side (1)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145631)

I do. It reduces medical insurance costs for everyone in the long run, gains the state money, and is easy enough to avoid - just drink diet.

Of course, I'm diabetic so I've been drinking diet soda only for over a decade.

Re:On the positive side (1)

johnsonav (1098915) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145795)

It reduces medical insurance costs for everyone in the long run...

So you support taxing anything which might cause higher medical costs for the insured, in order to discourage its use? Why not just ban it outright?

Re:On the positive side (1)

zehaeva (1136559) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145863)

I happen to be allergic to most artificial sugars, specifically the ones used in diet sodas. Should I really have to pay a tax on a beverage when the alternative is to go to the emergency room unable to breath cause my throat has swollen its self shut?

Re:On the positive side (2, Insightful)

truthsearch (249536) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145997)

You can't drink water or juice? You're actually claiming that you are forced to drink regular soda. You somehow suffer without it. Seriously?

Re:On the positive side (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26146121)

Or you could just not drink soda.

But I guess that's too rational of a solution, idiot.

Re:On the positive side (1)

d3ac0n (715594) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145899)

Sooo... You didn't just notice the glaring HOLE in your own statement there?

Allow me to quote it for you:

gains the state money, and is easy enough to avoid

How is the state going to gain money if it's so easy to avoid? You see, taxes like this idiotic one ALWAYS neglect to take into account the resulting human response to the new tax. People will simply drink less sugary soda and more diet, or will drink iced teas and juices. In the end, the "Obesity" tax will do NOTHING to stop obesity, and will collect almost NO money. It's a waste of time that serves only to intrude more Government into people's lives.

Re:On the positive side (1)

truthsearch (249536) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146101)

So the extremely high tax on cigarettes has stopped all smoking, reducing the income from cigarette taxes to zero? I'm sure you're aware that many people still smoke even with the high tax. Same will be for soda, and the soda tax will be nowhere near as high as the one on cigarettes.

Re:On the positive side (1)

Nursie (632944) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145909)

Wait, aren't these EXACTLY the sorts of things that we Europeans with our socialised healthcare are warned about?

When the government controls healthcare they decide access! They'll decide you can't do things, they'll tax stuff, they'll restrict your behaviour based on health grounds because they don't want to support/pay for the consequences!

And now it looks like you're getting those laws anyway without the benefits...

Sucks to be you!

Re:On the positive side (1)

rhsanborn (773855) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145959)

What about those of us who are capable of moderating our caloric intake and can drink regular soda at the same time? You can keep your nanny state, tyvm.

Re:On the positive side (1)

electrictroy (912290) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146061)

How about we just apply 18% to all food (including your diet soda) to discourage overeating. Would you be okay with that?

Why or why not?

   

Re:On the positive side (2, Insightful)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146085)

Something tells me that you aren't in favor of a 18% tax on the things you like.

Re:On the positive side (3, Insightful)

StopKoolaidPoliticsT (1010439) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146211)

I do. It reduces medical insurance costs for everyone in the long run

Except the governor is also proposing a tax increase on health insurance too (plus auto insurance, homeowners insurance, etc). Let's drive more people off of private insurance! That'll solve all of our problems.

NY is second in per capita expenditures in the country and nearly double that of California. I've watched the state rot around me for the past 30 years. NYC was relatively immune to it since it is the financial capital of the US, but the other 95% of the state has long suffered under these types of policies. Upstate and Western NY have had a fleeing population, increasing welfare rolls and businesses looking to relocate for decades because of our wasteful spending and burdensome taxation and regulation.

Squeezing even further will just force more activity out of the state, even if people choose to still live here. Fireworks are illegal in NY, but as soon as you cross the border to PA on 15, you'll see the fireworks store. Every summer, you see hundreds of people in my tiny town setting off fireworks. Just how do you think they got them? Almost all of the population of NY is within a 2 hour drive to another state. Buy stuff in sufficient quantities and it becomes worth it to make a trip, especially if you're already going to visit friends and family in adjacent states. The suckers dumb enough to keep buying in NY will pay the extra tax and the rest of us will be boosting the economies of PA, NJ, VT, CT, etc instead of our home state.

NY needs to cut some of the sacred cows... plain and simple. That's the only way of resolving the crisis.

Re:On the positive side (1)

truthsearch (249536) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145841)

How much does the state spend on health care, including state employee health plans, public hospitals, etc.? And how much of that could be reduced if people didn't consume extremely unhealthy and needless things like soda?

When the state is in economic crisis and can't pay the bills, yeah, I'm all for this kind of tax. When the budget is balanced and the economy is stronger, then I'm not as much for it.

Re:On the positive side (1)

aesiamun (862627) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145931)

Yes soda is the culprit. Tax everything with processed sugar then, not just soda. Hell just tax everything that isn't a nonprocessed vegetable!

Re:On the positive side (1)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146035)

The CO2 used in soda also causes global warming.

Re:On the positive side (1)

sunking2 (521698) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146095)

Tax sugar all you want. Nothing contains it anymore. Don't you dare tax my high fructose corn syrup though!

Re:On the positive side (1)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145857)

I stopped that fight a long time ago. Sin taxes are here to stay, since they work for the people who wish to control the behavior of others. First alcohol, then cigarettes, now freaking sugar. As if having a bunch of saccharine coursing through your veins is healthy.

Re:On the positive side (5, Insightful)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145951)

bleeding money. Interesting. Let's say you had a gaping leg wound that was bleeding, well, blood. For this analogy, assume you're a hemophiliac and the bleeding won't stop on it's own accord. Would you get some blood packs and inject them into your arm? No, you'd stop the bleeding (and inject blood if needed). Raising taxes doesn't stop the bleeding; cutting spending does.

Re:On the positive side (1)

Ioldanach (88584) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146003)

The state's money bleeding problem is because we're spending so much, maybe we need to cut back on the special interest programs.

Re:On the positive side (1)

JeanCroix (99825) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146123)

I'd prefer the taxes on ipods, cigars, gasoline, and luxury cars to income tax increases.

Well, since we're naming off things we don't use or don't approve of for for higher taxation, I'd prefer taxes on iphones, soy-based fake meat, fuel-grade ethanol, hybrid cars, and - oh, what the heck, let's say bibles. Rather than income taxes, of course.

Re:On the positive side (1)

Mr. Underbridge (666784) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146241)

. I'd prefer the taxes on ipods, cigars, gasoline, and luxury cars to income tax increases.

Only problem: Sales taxes are inherently regressive. And it's not like we're talking yachts here, we're talking music.

NY State Budget (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26145491)

Movie tickets, taxi rides, soda, beer, wine, cigars and massages would be taxed under Paterson's proposal. It also extends sales taxes to cable and satellite TV services and removes the tax exemption for clothes costing less than $110...reinstating the sales tax on clothing and shoes will drive people to New Jersey, where they will also gas up their cars and pick up their wine, spirits and soda because the prices are less due to lower taxes.

Hmm, that's funny, because according to the 2009 state budget, $1,397,787,000 (up from $0 the previous few years) is appropriated to "Economic Development" capital. More pork includes the $1,458,285,000 allocation to the DHS (up from $150,202,000 the previous year), and $350,000,000 for a new convention center.

Given that quality of life is part of economic development, why hurt the low and middle-class?

The answer is this quote from Wikipedia:

The New York metropolitan area is home to the largest number of Jews outside Israel. There are more Jews within New York City limits than within Jerusalem city limits, making the New York City Jewish community the largest such community in the world. About 12% of New Yorkers claim to be Jewish or of Jewish descent

Ahh, I knew those rich, greedy hooknosed Jews were behind it. I can just picture a pack of them at the dinner table(baby seal being served for dinner) rubbing their hands together and cackling, "Ghla ghla ghlaaaaaa!" in knee-deep piles of money. "Head Jew: "Ghhey, hlets tax them for taking shits too!" Other Jews: "Ghla ghla ghlaaaaaaa!"

Re:NY State Budget (1)

geoffrobinson (109879) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145523)

You truly put the "Coward" in "Anonymous Coward".

If it moves tax it! (1)

cthulu_mt (1124113) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145505)

We've already got the highest taxes in the union. Why not pile on some more?

Time to put in for a transfer.

Issues (3, Insightful)

Antony-Kyre (807195) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145507)

Rather than arguing for or against taxing non-tangible products, let me says this...

How is New York's tax system done? Isn't it income tax, property tax, and some sort of sales tax?

They have a sales tax, right? They're just extending it to non-tangible goods. How is downloaded music any different from buying a CD, in regards to taxes? Why shouldn't it be taxed?

Taxi rides, movie tickets, cable and satellite TV, seem like a bad idea to be taxed. Taxi rides are a big part in living in the city, right? Movie tickets are expensive enough already, right? And, well, cable and satellite TV, what effect will that have on people voting for him next time around?

Re:Issues (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26145621)

Earn $1, and follow what's left of it through as you spend. Deduct your employers contributions from that as well - because realistically that is a cost they consider part of your value.

When you're done - if you're not incredibly pissed you should move to a socialist country. That's basically what we are now anyway - we just don't actually BENEFIT anywhere near as much as socialist countries. (Unless you're an illegal, that is...then you have open access to all our government programs..)

Re:Issues and Problems (4, Insightful)

Nom du Keyboard (633989) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145697)

They have a sales tax, right? They're just extending it to non-tangible goods.

It's more than that. Now Apple (although probably not Amazon since they maintain they have no presence in NY) will have to collect a special tax strictly for NY residents, and pay that tax regularly to the state, and maybe file additional reports at additional expense, and no longer have the nicely uniform 99 cents/download price/image - and that's the effect on just one company alone. Multiply this by every company affected in every new area and the burden is significant.

Of course NY prides itself on being a very liberal state, and Joe Biden has said that paying taxes is a civil duty. Maybe they'll like having this happen to them. If not they can always vote some new people in - oh wait! The election is already over and you're stuck with these clowns for at least the next 2 years.

(If you say why Apple? It's because there are Apple computer stores in NYC giving the state tax people something to get their claws into.)

Re:Issues and Problems (2, Insightful)

diskofish (1037768) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146019)

Of course NYC prides itself on being a very liberal state, and Joe Biden has said that paying taxes is a civil duty.

Fixed that for ya. Talk to anyone outside the NYC area and they'll agree that taxes are way too high. The worst part is that local tax monies are sucked up and re-distributed to NYC.

Re:Issues (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26145791)

Itunes downloads are already taxed in New York state via sales tax. This proposal is an additional tax on top of sales tax.

Re:Issues (1)

zehaeva (1136559) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145941)

most of NYS doesn't have taxi service >>

Re:Issues (2, Informative)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146145)

How is downloaded music any different from buying a CD, in regards to taxes?

It brings up issues of jurisdiction. If Apple's servers are in CA and the payment is processed in CA, and Apple's facilities are in CA, then how can NY tax them? It's similar to mail-order tax issues.

By the way, I know this is theoretical, since Apple in fact has stores in NY. NY probably has every legal right to tax AAC downloads from Apple.

I'm in favor of the Apt Tax (3, Interesting)

rolfwind (528248) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145531)

http://www.apttax.com/ [apttax.com]

That is all. Oh, and it's time for all government to tighten its fat belt.

Re:I'm in favor of the Apt Tax (4, Funny)

Andr T. (1006215) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145585)

...and I thought apt tax was some kind of Debian software.

Re:I'm in favor of the Apt Tax (1)

Archangel Michael (180766) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146089)

I'm all for it, I'll move to all cash exchanges, and save even more. Will work for cash!

Thank,

Re:I'm in favor of the Apt Tax (2, Insightful)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146189)

That's not bad. And it would be heavily progressive - if not because poor people make fewer transactions, then because most poor people are going to demand cash if it saves them 0.5%.

My "unintended consequences" spidey sense is tingling, though...

They need to make mugging legal... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26145533)

And tax it like everything else.

A government in its death throes (4, Insightful)

brian0918 (638904) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145559)

So the state is collapsing under its government's regulations, and the government's plan to solve the problem is to regulate further, driving more markets out of the region? Brilliant! Eventually they'll learn, or be forced to learn, that you can't have your cake and eat it too. They will have to downsize the state government and withdraw the regulations hindering the market, or they will see their economy disappear. One or the other will be the inevitable outcome.

Cut the Military to 1/4 of it's current budget. (3, Insightful)

FatSean (18753) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145833)

Keep the health care budget intact, but close the bases and scale everything down. This will reduce the need to Federal Income Tax revenue.

Then, let NY keep more than $0.66 of every dollar it contributes in Federal taxes.

We need to cut costs, but at the top where the rich benefit from gov't spending the most.

Re:A government in its death throes (1)

robot_love (1089921) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145989)

Don't worry. If their economy does disappear, they'll probably just get a nice fat bail-out from the federal government.

Re:A government in its death throes (1)

gorbachev (512743) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146103)

Increased regulation causing the State budget shortfalls? How is making decisions on tax rates regulation?

You might also want to read up on a certain Mr. Madoff, who took full advantage of a regulatory vacuum. This is the world you want?

Less Government for Less Money (5, Insightful)

Nom du Keyboard (633989) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145563)

I would rather have less government for less money. Did you ever note that politicians always say they'll have to cut the most inflammatory items - police, fire, libraries - first? How about their own salaries next time for starters?

Re:Less Government for Less Money (1)

blueZ3 (744446) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146057)

I wish you could be modded higher than +5

I'm sure I'm not the only one who is completely fed up with this "it's for the children" crap. I bet someone living in New York could name 10 or 20 programs that not only deserve to be cut, but eliminated. But when it's time for the clowns who sit in the State House to set a new budget, any cuts have to come from some popular program, not from "$1,000,000 to study the impact of electric light on fungus" or "$100,000 to rename a state park after some pork-barreler and build a statue"

Personally, I'd like to implement a new system, where every year we decimate the ranks of politicians--if you served in public office during the year, we put your name on a list and we randomly shoot 1 in 10 of the people on the list.

Or just nuke congress from orbit--it's the only way to be sure.

Re:Less Government for Less Money (1)

Archangel Michael (180766) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146199)

Basic Libertarian Principle there!

Problem is, people love to "stick it to the man", which is the very heart of "progressive" politics. Little do they realize that in a society that is ostensibly "Of, by and for the people", that they themselves are "the man", and when they "stick it to the man" they are harming themselves.

There is NO SUCH THING as FREE LUNCH, nor Health Care, Income, Welfare ..... etc.

We have to get off envy as a motivation for governance.

Solution! (1)

spazmolytic666 (549909) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145569)

Maybe just tax the prostitutes. Just ask their Gov. Eliot Spitzer how much just a small tax on them would make.

Re:Solution! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26145881)

He's not a governor anymore. He's gone, not that he did anything wrong imo. I liked the new guy till he began doing stupid shit like this.

Easy out! (1)

Cornwallis (1188489) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145635)

Why can't Paterson make up for the shortfall by selling Hillary's Senate seat to Caroline!

Re:Easy out! (1)

jbeaupre (752124) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146115)

Has the original bootleg fortune grown big enough?

I never got this... (2, Insightful)

Capt James McCarthy (860294) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145637)

How the Government institutions tell folks that they should be more fiscally responsible while they run up more and more debt. I guess if I had a tax base, I wouldn't be concerned with how much I spent every year either.

A lot of the US should follow (2, Interesting)

alta (1263) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145641)

Not with the taxing entertainment, but I'm really not too upset about that one. But the rest of the country needs to back off on the social programs. Schools, no. Trying to pay for EVERYTHING to make sure EVERY warm body (citizen or not) has the same benefits as everyone else just isn't sustainable. Go ahead, tax the rich. And, as in the case of NYC, they are moving out in droves. So that leaves you with masses of people dependant on welfare, and no more rich left to tax.

California is going to be next here. They have a massive immigration issue. It's one thing to turn a blind eye (sanctuary cities anyone?) to the problem, Its another to try to feed, cloth, house, and healthcare every single person that shows up on your doorstep.

As Spock said, "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." The many are the 300Million United States Citizens, the few are the 20M illegal immigrants

Re:A lot of the US should follow (4, Interesting)

jedrek (79264) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145751)

You mean the illegal immigrants that pay all consumption, property and ownership taxes while not getting any of the direct benefits from them? The immigrants that are hired by US citizens? Yeah, they're the problem, not no-bid gov't contracts, spiraling health care costs, corporate subsidies (both industry and agricultural) along with two wars.

Re:A lot of the US should follow (4, Interesting)

Jhon (241832) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146183)

You mean the illegal immigrants who's kids suck up any and all tax money they may generate - and then some - the moment they enroll them in a public school? It costs ~$12k-$14k per kid. How many of these families generate enough income to cover just one kid? Not counting the other drains on social programs.

So yeah... they are the problem. So are the other things you meantion. They are not mutually exclusive.

Re:A lot of the US should follow (1)

my $anity 0 (917519) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145773)

But the "many" make use of many of these social programs. I bet many of the middle class would suddenly look very poor if they had to start paying for schools.

New York has about the second best school system in the country (usually alternates with California and a couple of other states), and has a quite good state university program. This creates skills and abilities which then create wealth. Remember, it's not a zero-sum game, wealth can be created, and schools do that.

I'm not saying New York Schools are perfect (far from), but they're some of the best we have, and we need to reform and improve them, even if it takes even MORE money. Good schools will attract people here.

No surprise. (3, Interesting)

theaveng (1243528) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145645)

Politicians will tax everything they can lay their hands on:

- telephone
- cellphone
- cable
- ISP
- electricity/natural gas
- gasoline/road tax
- income tax
- social security/medicare (levied on both citizens and businesses)
- sales
- excise/manufacturing tax
- tariff/import tax

It was obvious internet downloads would eventually get taxed too. The average American pays 40% of their income in taxes. The average European 65-70%.

Re:No surprise. (1)

jbeaupre (752124) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146237)

I was going to make some joke about at least oxygen not being taxed. But then I realized the last time I bought oxygen, it was taxed. Air too! At least the don't tax water, uh, food, uh dying, oh forget it!

I wonder how this will affect retirement payouts (2, Interesting)

MarkWatson (189759) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145687)

I have two good friends who are retired school psychologists from New York ad everytme I read about New York's financial problems, I think of them.

Same thing in California: two relatives are teachers, and one is just about to retire on a teachers pension. I think that California is very close to bankruptcy.

Pensions may sound good, but it may be that only federal government pensions may pay out because the federal government can print money ad pay out in highly devalued dollars).

Cut costs? (4, Insightful)

oDDmON oUT (231200) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145749)

I recently read that New York City's entitlements policy, bloated "public service" sector, fiscal irresponsibility and system of governance were key in bringing on the bankruptcy [nypost.com] of the 70s.

Could this be a case of the tree not falling far from the apple?

The remedies in the 70s included fiscal conservatism, cutting entitlements, dealing with corruption and going after crime.

Rather than raising taxes to enable business-as-usual to continue unabated, maybe it's time state officials considered wielding the same scalpel used in the past to the body of the state today.

New York subsidizes the quite a few losers. (5, Insightful)

FatSean (18753) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145929)

Those losers being states that take in more federal tax money than they contribute. New York gives up 1/3 of it's tax revenue to states like MS,MO,AL,LA,WV,NC,SC, etc...You know, the 'conservative' states where 'small government' and 'less taxes' get a huge response.

Imagine if the Federal Government let New York keep that money in state...instant balanced budget and then some.

Extremely Shortsigh...err.. (2, Interesting)

Alzheimers (467217) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145775)

I'd say that these tax proposals are extremely short-sighted and show that our (un-elected) Governor lacks a vision or direction, but I wouldn't want to offend anyone [news10now.com]

People are Idiots (taxachusetts rant) (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26145817)

Take Massachusetts. They had a chance to get rid of the state income tax. They voted agianst it by a 70-30 margin. State unions and pensions that go with it are out of control. the roads and bridges despite all the taxes are crap. I believe its 80% of highway funds go to administrative costs vs 20% goes into fixing the roads. Oh and for that they get a hole in the ground that was so shodily made its killed people, and it only cost them billions to build.

It seems all the gov run agencys are bankrupt yet you have firemen getting full untaxed disability for fake injurys. One of them was caught becuase well he finished in top 3 of some major state bodybuilding competition. Come on yes physical therapy can get a guy fit, but it you have a bum back no amount of therapys going to get you that buff.

The problem is they all get away from it up here in NH and bring the politics that turned everything that way with them. Cash is king now. More people riding the cart then pulling.

Tax marijuana instead (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26145821)

Legalise marijuana and tax it at $100 per ounce. Between the new tax revenue and the savings in less police and prison space we'll make $50 billion per year.

It's time marijuana smokers pay their fair share. And most of them feel the same.

Re:Tax marijuana instead (3, Funny)

penguin_dance (536599) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146045)

Legalise marijuana and tax it at $100 per ounce. Between the new tax revenue and the savings in less police and prison space we'll make $50 billion per year.

Legalize marijuana and tax it at $100 per ounce. Between the new tax revenue and loads of pot smokers, almost no one will CARE about the high taxes in New York.

There, FIXED that for you.

This is SO stupid (1)

bytethese (1372715) | more than 5 years ago | (#26145961)

As a grad student in the CUNY (City Univ of NY) system this will hit me and my fellow students hard. Patterson wants to tax not only music downloads but also simple things such as soda, movie tickets and even wants to increase my tuition!

While I can only speculate, let's see here...
College costs more, tax on music downloads and tax on movie tickets. With FiOS being more widely available here I can just see an increase in downloading music/movies via torrent sites.

Re:This is SO stupid (1)

brendank310 (915634) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146197)

The increase in tuition wouldn't be so bad, if it stayed in education. I go to a SUNY school, and we're getting a $300 tuition hike from the state next year, and something like 10% of that stays in education. Then they cut the budget by 5 million. This guy is robbing us... blind?

Re:This is SO stupid (1)

Gizzmonic (412910) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146227)

Movie tickets and soda taxes? Sounds like they hate poor college students in NY.

Why not tax hookers and limo drives instead!

Wait, money isn't free? (1)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146023)

We can't just keep spending and spending on bridges, and books for our little snowflakes, and police pensions, and welfare?

Oh the humanity!

There's also a proposed obesity tax. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26146053)

Seriously.

They want to tax all non-diet soft drinks and call it the "obesity" tax.

big deal (1)

memnock (466995) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146073)

Florida's budget depends on hot air.

What a moron (1)

Odiche (513692) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146099)

Actually Paterson has lost any marbles he has had left.

One, raising taxes during a recession actually prolongs the recession, mainly because there is less available money to be used as capital. He says this is not a tax hike, but it really is.

  Second the rate hikes he is talking about are insane. Beer and wine alone have an over 100% increase against the base rate they are taxed at now. (keeping in mind this is his proposal, before the legislators tack on their spending requests.)The iPod tax may make the business model less appealing to consumers, which may in turn lead to less offerings (unlikely but possible).

Physician Registration is jumping from $600 Biannual fee to $800. Or a $400 per year increase. It may not seem like much, but physicians are already having a tough time making ends meet in this state. This is also state where there is a dearth of physicians already. (Try getting an appointment). Why would they want to migrate to NY if fees keep increasing.

The governor states that many of these fees have remained flat for years, and as such they can be raised. He does not seem to accept the possibility that these fees have remained the same because they might be at the highest the market can bear already. Now with the market declining, where can the cash come from?

Rich are leaving the city. Who to tax then? The small shop owners! (Otherwise known as the lower-upper middle class). Up until the point they start leaving for greener pastures as well. But once they start leaving, not many employers left.

Forgive me if I seem a bit skeptical about the entire plan,and it's not just because there is no provision for politicians to tighten THEIR belts, no mention of politicians taking a pay cut or "voluntary" redundancy. No mention of a reduction in pork projects, and contrary to belief, road maintenance is not a pork project; but they are reducing that. As well as targeting Health services, fire services, police services.

But then again I live in NY. Maybe its time to leave.

Let's Dance! (1)

mcnastiest (1433775) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146149)

Who needs school...at least everyone will be able to dance their way through life!

NYS driving away everything in their own region (3, Insightful)

guruevi (827432) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146163)

NYS has been driving out businesses just by their costs and taxes. You pay taxes for everything and every piece of paper (permit, license, ...) from the government costs at least $10 for individuals, $100 for businesses. It's so bad that you can live in NYC but any decent company (datacenters. stocks and banking) is right outside the border in NJ. The same goes for Buffalo: it used to be a big business city; they all moved to Erie, PA or Canada and now that city is as good as dead. If you look at the border-towns (eg. PA-border) the NY-side of the border has the smallest population, no businesses except for a bar and no real-estate market (people dump it way below market value). On the other side of the border (the PA-side) there is a decent sized rural town, the shopping mall and stores like Wal-Mart are literally 1/2 mile away from the border, clearly built at a location to draw out the NYS folk.

Schools again? (1)

kingsteve612 (1241114) | more than 5 years ago | (#26146229)

$700 million more taken away from schools. Absolutely pathetic when the government makes cuts to facilities of education, where people are supposed to go to have materials to further their lives in the best way possible. Absolutely pathetic government and i am disgusted and embarrassed to live in a country that cuts funding to schools in any way. Education is the only thing we have left, and to take away from that is the suicide of the country we(whoever lives in the US) live in. No education, no future. Period.
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