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Game Devs Warming Up To More Mature-Rated Games On the Wii

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the beating-prostitutes-with-a-wiimote dept.

Wii 129

With the success of the Grand Theft Auto franchise responsible for the majority of publisher Take Two Interactive's earnings in the past year, the company's executives are looking more and more at expanding their M-rated products onto the typically family-friendly Wii. Take Two's CEO said, "Even though we think M-rated content is much more appropriate for the PS3 or 360, we have to look at the Wii as a viable platform across all our labels. We have to, because we can't ignore the installed base. You just can't." They're already planning to release GTA: Chinatown Wars for the DS to test the waters on a Nintendo platform, hoping for a better result than the controversy over Manhunt 2 last year.

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Wiimote? (5, Funny)

Atti K. (1169503) | more than 5 years ago | (#26170983)

Well, I could think of some interesting use cases for the Wiimote in an adult game...

Re:Wiimote? (2, Funny)

iYk6 (1425255) | more than 5 years ago | (#26171009)

Poignant! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26171283)

From TFA [bbspot.com] : Another said, "No wonder I can't keep a girlfriend. I had no idea that was how it was supposed to work."

And just below that quotation was this "If it ain't broke..." [burstnet.com] survey ad.

Re:Wiimote? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26171013)

"What do you mean you hurt your wrist playing with your Wii?"

Re:Wiimote? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26171023)

Please remember that the term "Use Case" should not be used in the bedroom. Thank you, that is all.

Weeemote? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26171223)

And in other news the sales of Wiimotes has gone through the roof.

Re:Wiimote? (1)

Thanshin (1188877) | more than 5 years ago | (#26171353)

1 - Create Miis for all your family.
2 - Buy a Wii adult game.
3 - ????
4 - ????
5 - ????
6 - Nope, no profit here. Maybe for your shrink?

Re:Wiimote? (5, Funny)

Poltras (680608) | more than 5 years ago | (#26174045)

1 - Create Miis for all your family.
2 - Buy a Wii adult game.
3 - ????
4 - ????
5 - ????
6 - ...

7 - "We call it: The AWiistocrats!"

Re:Wiimote? (2, Interesting)

SensiMillia (217366) | more than 5 years ago | (#26171529)

You were not the first one. "Dark Room" [darkroomsexgame.com] a PC game making use of the Wii controller. And yes, it uses the Wiimote in a very adult-y way.

Re:Wiimote? (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 5 years ago | (#26174533)

Sure, it sounds like a great game, but... where are the screen shots?!?

Re:Wiimote? (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 5 years ago | (#26177027)

Um... did you even open the link?

... rhythm game without any visuals, played only by audio and haptic cues

Emphasis mine.

Re:Wiimote? (2, Interesting)

Xanlexian (122112) | more than 5 years ago | (#26171891)

What?! Are you crazy?! Sex in a video game?! My god man! Think of the children!

Using the Wiimote as a bludgeoning tool to put a proper smack-down on some prostitutes, now that's what wii all need!!

Crossplatform (1, Interesting)

Crumplecorn (904797) | more than 5 years ago | (#26171041)

So in the future the lowest-common denominator for cross platform games, which for now is decided only by PS3/XBox360/PC for these games, will be dropped even further so the Wii can get in on the action.

Stunning also that the people who publish GTA of all things believe they "can't ignore" an installed base which was created by games diametrically opposed to the likes of GTA.

Re:Crossplatform (5, Insightful)

N1AK (864906) | more than 5 years ago | (#26171111)

Who says they have to make the same game cover 3 consoles?

Wii's are currently outselling both the 360 and PS3 by a massive margin, and although that is undoubtedly down to casual gamers the quantity of mature gamers with Wiis is still going to be sizeable. As a developer, ignoring an oppurtunity to put a title on a high selling console which has lower developement costs (peoples expectations regarding graphics are much lower) and with less competition (most Wii games are crap, especially none Nintendo ones) than on other consoles is an opportunity they shouldn't miss.

Hell considering Sony are still selling 200,000 PS2s a month I'd probably have teams working on titles for 360/PS3, and other teams working on Wii/PS2.

Re:Crossplatform (2, Insightful)

Crumplecorn (904797) | more than 5 years ago | (#26171303)

Who says they have to make the same game cover 3 consoles?

The realist in me. The Wii will either get a rubbish cut down version of the 'real' game, or all three will get a lowest-common denominator version.

Hell considering Sony are still selling 200,000 PS2s a month I'd probably have teams working on titles for 360/PS3, and other teams working on Wii/PS2.

If you are going to dedicate an entire team to doing a Wii specific game which, for instance, actually takes proper advantage of the controller, it would make more sense to aim for the Wii's primary demographic, than to aim for a small subset which is better covered by any other platform.

Re:Crossplatform (5, Interesting)

LoverOfJoy (820058) | more than 5 years ago | (#26171583)

If developers really try to fine tune their wii games well so the game-play rocks and the reviews come back awesome I imagine that could sway quite a few people. Heck, all I'd need to read is, "this plays like a game made by Nintendo" and I'd perk up my ears. Where are the third party Metroid style games? If a game review came out that said, "Wow, this is along the lines of Metroid (or Zelda)" it would sell like hotcakes even if it weren't ported to the PS3 or 360 (perhaps especially if it weren't). A third party developer could pull it off. Obviously it would take a bit of a marketing as Nintendo has developed a reputation for solid games on its platform and people go wild for their big titles while a third party would have a bit of an uphill battle getting that sort of a frenzy but if the game is well-made and the genre is one the install base is known to love (similar to zelda, metroid?) then it's hard for me to see the game being a flop. Putting it solely on the wii could actually be a smart marketing move to get quite a bit of attention (and perhaps comparison to Nintendo made games).

The problem has been that developers have too often felt the ONLY safe game on the wii was the party game (are they really that scared of Nintendo?). When other games are put on the wii, it seems their weakest programmers are put on the job and the controls are weak and not fine tuned properly. Well, the weak controls come out in reviews and of course that ends up reflecting in sales.

Don't get me wrong. I recognize that people who have all systems are going to TEND to buy the game for the system it looks the prettiest on. However, I think a lot of games could potentially be more fun to play on finely tuned wii controls. I recognize that Nintendo has had the advantage in creating games with great control on their own system...I just think that third parties ought to be able to catch up by now (or soon).

I don't think it's smart to assume that the subset of the wii's demographics that likes Metroid and Zelda type games is small.

Re:Crossplatform (3, Informative)

KronosReaver (932860) | more than 5 years ago | (#26171393)

Yes, but the concern is that a game publisher will not use 2 different teams to write the same game at the same time.
Instead we may end up getting PS3/360 games that have been dumbed down, or made to be more chield friendly in order to make the game available on all platforms at the same time.

I also own and use all three systems but I have a very clear expectations as to what each system is for. The Wii is used for family entertainment, or for playing with a larger group of adults as light entertainment. The PS3/360 are used for "Hardcore" gaming.

The original post was about games along the lines of GTA and other M rated games. If those games are made available on a Kid-Friendly console the fear is that the "Hardcore" gaming systems will end up with fluffy Kid-Friendly games.

Remember, many of those millions of Wii systems come with soccer moms who have nothing better to do than write emails to Nintendo to complain about content their kids are being forced into seeing. Just look back at the BEER-PONG game. In the last couple of days before it was made available for download on the Wii Nintendo was pressured into changing the name, and modifying the color of the beverage in game... so as to be more Kid-Friendly.

Re:Crossplatform (3, Insightful)

Janthkin (32289) | more than 5 years ago | (#26172139)

Did you ever play Eternal Darkness? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_darkness) Gamecube exclusive, M-rated, and an absolutely lovely entry into the Horror genre. And it's MUCH more disturbing than the casual violence & theft beloved of the GTA franchise.

Nintendo does not have to equal kid-friendly. I'm glad developers remember this from time to time.

Re:Crossplatform (1)

Jaktar (975138) | more than 5 years ago | (#26172809)

I totally agree. Eternal Darkness was quite good.

Re:Crossplatform (0, Flamebait)

StikyPad (445176) | more than 5 years ago | (#26176295)

The thing I don't get about the Wii is that anybody seems to like it at all. I don't know if I'm a "hardcore" gamer, in that I don't really give two shits about playing a game until I've unlocked every trivial piece of worthless content, and I don't get a hardon thinking about buying the next yet-another-FPS or OMGMMORPG, but I certainly enjoy immersive, challenging games. My wife would rather play word games or actual sports. And diverting the kids away from Webkinz and Penguin whatever is a chore.. The Wii is that thing they play as a last resort, like right now when it's too cold to go outside and gets dark early, and they're tired of watching Wall-e for the 1000th time. That's basically 0 for 4 in my household.

Re:Crossplatform (1)

nog_lorp (896553) | more than 5 years ago | (#26177903)

What? So you are saying your family just doesn't like videogames at all? What does that have to do with the Wii?

If you are saying the Wii doesn't have challenging immersive games, then you just haven't bought many games for it.

Re:Crossplatform (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26171527)

M-rated games are generally not made for "mature gamers".

Re:Crossplatform (3, Interesting)

scubamage (727538) | more than 5 years ago | (#26172015)

Not only that, but licensing for the wii is markedly cheaper. Both X360 and Ps3 lose money on every console purchased, with an expectation that the money will be earned back in licensing fees. The wii, using commodity hardware, actually earns a profit on every console sold. This translates to cheaper licensing fees for developers. It costs a fraction of the price to release something on Wii. Even more, there are avenues such as the virtual console and wiiware to release on which will give Take-Two a chance to release some smaller things, or older games as well. To not to sell to the wii would be idiotic considering its outsold the other two consoles by a vast margin.

Re:Crossplatform (1, Informative)

radish (98371) | more than 5 years ago | (#26175299)

Both X360 and Ps3 lose money on every console purchased
I don't believe that's true any more for the 360, although I haven't dug up a link to cite. However, you're right that the Wii is more profitable and has been so for longer.

This translates to cheaper licensing fees for developers
Does it? I haven't seen any comparisons on licensing/dev kit costs, but I'd be interested to read them if you know of any.

Even more, there are avenues such as the virtual console and wiiware to release on which will give Take-Two a chance to release some smaller things, or older games as well
Exactly like PSN and XBLA, but less popular :) I think it's pretty well acknowledged that XBLA is the one to beat in the download-to-console segment.

To not to sell to the wii would be idiotic considering its outsold the other two consoles by a vast margin.
It's true that the hardware numbers are hard to ignore. The problem is that the Wii's attach rate is terrible, particularly for 3rd party titles. It doesn't matter how many Wii's there are out there if no-one's buying the games. I know that I haven't bought a Wii game since Boom Blox, and there's nothing whatsoever on the radar I'm interested in. And before you stereotype me as some kind of anti-nintendo troll, I stood on line on the street for hours to get that thing on launch day. I even flew to LA the year before to try it out @ E3. Now I never even switch it on - huge disappointment.

Numbers don't neccesarily tell the whole story (1)

elrous0 (869638) | more than 5 years ago | (#26172245)

I admire the Wii's success. But, let's face it, it's really the console for casual gamers and kids (they kind of console parents feel is safe for both little Johnny and grandma at the home). I suspect that, no matter how many consoles they've sold, a hardcore adult title will just not sell nearly as well on the Wii as it would on the 360 or PS3. For example, the most popular shooter on the Wii so far has been Metroid Prime. And, despite the astronomically great Wii hardware sales, that game has only sold about a million copies. That's very good, but it's just a drop in the bucket compared to 360 and PS3 shooters like Halo 3, Metal Gear Sold 4, and Gears of War.

Re:Numbers don't neccesarily tell the whole story (1)

TuxThePenguin2205 (1031140) | more than 5 years ago | (#26172563)

Actually Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition has sold 1.6 million which kinda destroys your point with it being an 'adult game' and all. I believe Capcom consider it a commercial success. Plus it is a kick ass game. http://vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=6163&region=All [vgchartz.com] Also check out the forthcoming 'The Conduit' Due Q1 09

Incomplete Numbers also don't tell the whole story (1)

LordZardoz (155141) | more than 5 years ago | (#26177293)

It does not necessarily destroy his argument. Take a look at the Home section of VG Chartz, from your own link. Based on that site, the Wii has sold 42 million world wide. So that game sold to just under 4% of the install base, and is considered one of Capcom's primary franchises. The game cube total sales were about the same, and the Gamecube had a much smaller install base than the Wii.

That game is a financial success on the Wii because the dev costs were minimal. The game already existed, and the Wii supports Gamecube backward compatibility.

Gears of war is an undisputed hit on the Xbox 360. It has sold 5.56 million on an install base of 25.59 million. The game was able to appeal to 20% of the install base.

The Wii audience may be larger, but the Xbox / PS3 audience is still a more reliable consumer for most developers. If you want to put out a AAA game with mature themes, you probably want to hit about 6 million to consider it a monster it, and about 3 million to break even.

The marketing of the Wii has been effective from a bottom line point of view, but the platform has not done much to impress non casual gamers. I would like to think that the platform can still appeal to hard core as well as casual gamers, but it is pretty clear at this point that developers of games with mature themes are not targeting the Wii yet.

As a fan of the platform, and a hardcore gamer, I would very much like to see more studios put quality mature games on the Wii, but it does not seem likely at this point.

END COMMUNICATION

Re:Numbers don't neccesarily tell the whole story (1)

kingsteve612 (1241114) | more than 5 years ago | (#26173069)

I agree with you. No way i'd buy a Wii just to play another "adult" game that i could be playing on my 360 or even my computer. I think Nintendo should just stick primarily with it's family friendly games. Maybe release some teen or mature shooting games, yeah. But to make a headline of it is kind of pointless for the reasons you stated.

Re:Numbers don't neccesarily tell the whole story (1)

SpinningCone (1278698) | more than 5 years ago | (#26174893)

metriod prime is the most popular because the popular PS3/360 FPS games (Halo 3, Metal Gear Sold 4, and Gears of War.) *aren't* on the Wii so you cant do a real comparison ther of who would buy those games.

RE4 was very much an 'M' game and sold well, the controls were awesome. the Wii lags in "hardcore" areas due to its weak graphical performance, particularly in FPS games which are usually bleeding edge in the graphical department.

360/PS3 gamers would be upset if you toned the graphics down on a big title (like GoW2) to hit the Wii market and Wii owners would be miffed if their version was in someway inferior in a multi version release.

Re:Crossplatform (5, Interesting)

Nursie (632944) | more than 5 years ago | (#26171121)

Oh bullshit.

I bought a Wii because of the innovative controls and Wii sports being fun to play with friends. I *know* I'm not the only one that has left the damn thing mostly idle since then because most of the games are very child oriented and have rather shallow gameplay.

Get the big, grown-up names on Wii, please.

I wonder what the rate of game-buying for Wii is once bought?

Yes, I do own a 360 and a PS3 as well. I use both more than the Wii, which suffers even more than the PS3 in a lack of engaging games. That doesn't seem to be changing either, more "Big Brain Academy" and similar nonsense. I do complex algebra all day for money, my brain's fine, besides which those things look like someone wrote them in Flash.

Bah /ok, rant over now

Re:Crossplatform (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26171231)

I do complex algebra all day for money

You dont get it.

Re:Crossplatform (1)

Crumplecorn (904797) | more than 5 years ago | (#26171259)

Get the big, grown-up names on Wii, please.

Yes, I do own a 360 and a PS3 as well.

I rest my case.

Re:Crossplatform (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26171337)

I Second that.

I mean, it's more or less worthless even to subscribe to the piratebay rss feed 405

Re:Crossplatform (1)

ShakaUVM (157947) | more than 5 years ago | (#26171463)

I pretty much only play the Wii for party games. Ravid Rabbits and similar games are quite fun.

For actual gaming (by which I mean playing games by myself, like a true gamer), or with 2 player coop, it's PS3 or PC time.

Re:Crossplatform (3, Insightful)

Xest (935314) | more than 5 years ago | (#26171475)

Nope, you're not alone. I'm in the same position, my Wii sits unused to make room for my 360, about the only entertaining game I found on the Wii that I go back to was ghost squad, because arcade style shooters can be a bit of a laugh for 5minutes now and again, but for me that sums up the Wii- 5minutes now and again, with now and again being defined roughly as every 3months.

The 360 was shifting twice as many retail games per console as the Wii and PS3 last time I saw stats for it (earlier this year). I'd imagine this has changed now though as the 360 has many more family titles and is cheaper than the Wii to buy now - I bet with the 360 selling for under £120 in the UK (vs. £170 for the Wii) now at it's cheapest version there are people who'd buy it + rock band or scene it or whatever for the family, and nothing else, but I digress, that only exagerates the point that casual gaming is not a path for high software sales per console, you can at best hope you shift enough consoles so that three games or whatever per console is enough to make up software sales numbers.

The point is when the 360 was limited to hardcore games the attach rate was much higher than that of the Wii and you're right- this is because hardcore gamers are the ones that spend money on games, whilst Nintendo has captured a larger audience it's not an audience that for the most part will buy more than one or two games a year at christmas time and nothing else. There are exceptions to every rule, but the point is that back when those last stats were released, even though Nintendo had double the installed user base, it still had sold less games than Microsoft had with the 360.

I certainly welcome more mature games on the Wii and less party games, I might actually have reason to use it more then. Most stuff so far feels little more than fancy demos of what can be done with the Wiimote- well sorry, but we're past this point now, we know what it can do, we no longer want to pay to see what it can do, we want to pay to actually play through games with decent story lines, interesting themes and characters.

I felt the Wii when it was first unveiled had so much potential to immerse gamers simply because the control system put you in the action, but the amount of games that took that and ran with it have been few and the rest have just been games you can't ever become immersed in. We want games with real content, with real substance, with worlds that we can be part of and interact with using the Wii mote.

I'd say Nintendo's biggest threat now is the next generation, if Microsoft and Sony take their idea and couple it with their usual state of the art systems and a plethora of games with deep and interesting story lines whilst Nintendo continues to push the same party games then they're going to lose the momentum the Wii gave them, they really missed a trick already by not cashing in on the depth of games they could have developed for the Wii. The Wii uses the same disc format as the 360 and doesn't require development of ultra-high detail models and textures so why aren't we seeing a plethora of games with deep and impressive, ultra-interactive worlds to explore?

Re:Crossplatform (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26173125)

There's really little Nintendo can do about it. Nintendo's Wii games are pretty much all great, excluding the party- or casual-type games.

The problem is that Nintendo can only produce so many games by themselves. Third-party developers hardly seem to be trying at all, and continue to spit out half-assed games (often ports of PS2 games still) which try to qualify as a Wii game by having you wave your arms around like a lunatic.

Re:Crossplatform (5, Insightful)

vux984 (928602) | more than 5 years ago | (#26175141)

The point is when the 360 was limited to hardcore games the attach rate was much higher than that of the Wii and you're right- this is because hardcore gamers are the ones that spend money on games, whilst Nintendo has captured a larger audience it's not an audience that for the most part will buy more than one or two games a year at christmas time and nothing else.

Look, its a great theory, I'd give you a +5 insightful for the hypothesis, but the reality just doesn't line up.

According to NPD, The current attach rate for Xbox360 is 7.0; Nintendo's is 4.64. Putting the Wii attach rate around around 2/3rds what the 360 is at. [Note I beleive NPD reports on american sales so Wii sports would not be counted towards the attach.]

However the Wii has sold ~42M units worldwide while the Xbox360 has moved ~25M units. That means 195M (42 * 4.64) games have sold for the Wii vs 175M (25 * 7) games for xbox 360.

The Wii has outstripped the xbox 360 by enough that its overcome the attach rate. If the libraries for both games was the same, and the titles sold in the same proportion, a given title would have sold more copies on the Wii than on the 360. Now, of course the libraries are different, and on the Wii you have to compete with Nintendo's own first party blockbusters.

but the point is that back when those last stats were released, even though Nintendo had double the installed user base, it still had sold less games than Microsoft had with the 360.

This as you can see is no longer true. Your hypothesis is wrong. The Xbox had a 1 year head start and a higher attach rate, but the Wii has still surpassed its software sales. Further, the Wii attach rate is actually steadily -increasing-. While not there yet, the Wii is becoming the new PS2, where the massive install base ensures any title released on it outsells the other platforms.

I'd say Nintendo's biggest threat now is the next generation, if Microsoft and Sony take their idea and couple it with their usual state of the art systems and a plethora of games with deep and interesting story lines whilst Nintendo continues...

No offense, but take your blinders off. Nintendo is selling in droves to gamers who don't want that. My 4 year old son plays BoomBlox, MarioKart, WiiSports, MarioParty8, Zack&Wiki with his grandmother on the Wii. They have so much fun my parents bought a Wii for their place. Sony / Microsoft will NEVER EVER capture them with 'deep and interesting story lines'. Neither my 4 year old nor my mother would EVER play them.

If the Sony and MS do what you suggest, they'll be EXACTLY where they are today next generation: fighting over the 'male tween' crowd, that wants to play 100+ hour 'deep' games and cares about texture resolution.

The Wii uses the same disc format as the 360 and doesn't require development of ultra-high detail models and textures so why aren't we seeing a plethora of games with deep and impressive, ultra-interactive worlds to explore?

2 reasons:

1) Because people like you, who want deep impressive ultra-interactive worlds to explore, already have a 360, and would bitch about the lack of ultra-high detail models and textures on the Wii version. Developers know this. That's why the Wii has a dearth of that kind of title. They know everyone who is interested in that kind of title already ALSO has a 360 and wouldn't buy the wii version if both were available.

2) Because developers didnt think the Wii had a shot in hell of dominating sales the way it did. So they've mostly only had time to scramble quick and dirty titles to try and cash in. Only in the last year have they begun ramping up to release the 'big' titles on the Wii.

Because the Wii, with its continued growth, will soon reach the point where the developer can sell YOU the game on the Xbox, and still release it profitably on the Wii, even though all the review sites will jerk off about the xbox's superior graphics and and rate the Wii version the worst of the 3 due to its lack of HD, lack of dolby dts, and lack of xbox live "achievements".

Re:Crossplatform (2, Insightful)

UserChrisCanter4 (464072) | more than 5 years ago | (#26171481)

Well, the Wii is pretty much exactly like the last two Nintendo consoles. There will be 15 or 20 absolutely great games, 75% of which are first or second party. Probably 6 or 7 of those games have already hit.

If you take a look in the reviews, there are some spectacular games out there, but you'll have to look past the shovelware to find them. Much like how the installed base of the GameCube or the cartridge format of the N64 made them substantially "different" enough from the competition to discourage some releases, the last-gen hardware in the Wii will probably keep many of the potentially bigger cross-platform names out of the Wii pool.

As someone who has owned every Nintendo system back to the NES, I'd suggest you keep your fingers crossed but get ready to accept that there will be some cool games from each major franchise and a couple of new and surprising ones. Unfortunately, months will pass between each worthwhile purchase.

Re:Crossplatform (1)

mark-t (151149) | more than 5 years ago | (#26172143)

Why is it unfortunate that it would be months between each worthwhile purchase? Unless cash burns a hole in one's wallet, I'd think that buying only a very small number of new games in a year would be a _good_ thing. And 15 to 20 absolutely great games in total on a platform in its day seems pretty respectable to me.

Re:Crossplatform (1)

Nursie (632944) | more than 5 years ago | (#26172593)

"Why is it unfortunate that it would be months between each worthwhile purchase?"

Because, sadly, we've all come to expect that the content of a game will only last you a week or so of casual gaming in the evenings.

Obviously stuff like Wii Sports keep on giving, but most games with a story and such? You play them in a couple of weeks and never touch 'em again.

Re:Crossplatform (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 5 years ago | (#26172773)

Because, sadly, we've all come to expect that the content of a game will only last you a week or so of casual gaming in the evenings.

Then perhaps we need more games synchronized to a calendar, so that players have to either wait 24 hours for more stuff to appear or play with the system clock. The Animal Crossing series is like this, with trees spawning fruit once every three days and mail taking time to reach the player's virtual neighbors. So are Wii Sports and the Brain Age games that allow only one test per player per day. I seem to remember that some of the Pokemon games also respawned berries based on the real-time clock. In any case, this would make players keep games longer, keeping them off the used market.

Re:Crossplatform (1)

grumbel (592662) | more than 5 years ago | (#26174261)

Well, the Wii is pretty much exactly like the last two Nintendo consoles.

The difference is that the N64 and Gamecube could keep up with the competition and thus got plenty of third party support and multiplatform titles, the Wii on the other side can't keep up and is largely ignored by third party companies, except for those mini/party-games. Also the N64 had Rare, while the Gamecube had Capcom and Silicon Knights, those mature second party companies are what is mostly missing on the Wii.

Re:Crossplatform (1)

francisstp (1137345) | more than 5 years ago | (#26174927)

Can't keep up in what respect? Graphical power? That's definitely not the main factor anymore in the success of games.

The Wii has been outpacing the competition in console sales, which should be enough for third party software makers. They're not in business to make the most powerful games, they're in this business to sell games and the Wii would allow them to do just that.

Re:Crossplatform (1)

grumbel (592662) | more than 5 years ago | (#26175137)

Can't keep up in what respect? Graphical power?

Yes and thats exactly why the third party support is less then stunning. If a console wants multiplatform titles it has to be able to keep up with the others, the Wii can't, so he sees only a tiny few of those and most the time it will be PS2 ports, not Xbox360/PS3 ports.

The Wii has been outpacing the competition in console sales,

Yeah, it also taught us that great sales don't mean a great many of good games. As a Nintendo stockholder you can celebrate the Wii all day long, as a gamer there really isn't all that much to cheer about.

Re:Crossplatform (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 5 years ago | (#26176087)

As a gamer for the past 25 years, the Wii has a lot to cheer about. It's actually creating new, interesting gameplay. I haven't seen a single game on the 360 or PS3 that I can say that about. Hell, I can only think of 1 or 2 games for each of those consoles that I'd consider dropping 50 bucks for the disc, much less the $400 for the system. I can think of a dozen Wii games I wish I had. The Wii is just plain fun. The other consoles- not so much. All more of the same, which is why my game playing has been going down exponentially the past few years before the Wii.

Re:Crossplatform (1)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | more than 5 years ago | (#26176671)

I can think of exactly one on the Wii: Wii Sports. None for the other systems, true, but Nintendo's offering isn't pushing the bounds of gameplay or something. It's taking existing gameplay and just putting a new spin on it. It's just like the DS. I have yet to play the DS game that uses the touchscreen in some awesome, revolutionary way (despite the "innovation" people praise). All the Wii has, besides the pack-in, is stuff like Metroid Prime 3, which has some really nice touches with the new controls, but the fundamentals are all old hat.

Re:Crossplatform (1)

francisstp (1137345) | more than 5 years ago | (#26176503)

I see what you mean in that the same games as on the other 2 won't be released on the Wii because the hardware just can't handle it. This is fine.

However this really should not be a problem in itself for the Wii. In other industries suppliers usually adapt to the major market players even when they need to design more basic products. Take the Korean car manufacturers for example. We don't see them having shortages of features like gas tanks or cup holders because Toyota, Honda and Renault have higher quality requirements than they do. Why is this such an issue in the console market? Why can't the software designers make custom software for the Wii when they know they'd have a good chance of selling millions of copies?

Re:Crossplatform (4, Insightful)

trdrstv (986999) | more than 5 years ago | (#26176329)

If you take a look in the reviews, there are some spectacular games out there, but you'll have to look past the shovelware to find them. Much like how the installed base of the...

PS2. No seriously, last generation the PS2 had the lowest rated games (in aggregate) due to all the shovelware (Dreamcast had the highest). This is a product of being the market leader.

People see the vast amount of money to be made, and though some make a "Shadow of the Colosus" or "God of War", most are content to shovel out a "Ninja Bread-man".

Re:Crossplatform (1)

seebs (15766) | more than 5 years ago | (#26177535)

That's what people said about the DS -- and it turned out to be wrong, because the market leader attracts a ton of games.

The Wii won't get the traditional "big" cross-platform games -- but then, the PS360 won't get the big-name Wii games, and the Wii games will sell better. All it takes is a couple of cases, like GH World Tour selling much better on Wii than on 360, and a few more franchises deciding that they'd rather spend $5M to develop for Wii and make a fortune, than spend $15M to develop for PS3+360 and lose a fortune.

RPGs (1)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 5 years ago | (#26173163)

I bought the Wii for the same reasons, and as much as I want to stick with it there is a good lack of game variety. Mind you checking with PS3 catalogue doesn't yield much of a better selection, though there are slightly more teen-adult oriented titles. I am subscribed to Nintendo Power and when I open it I hope I will see an RPG. Often I do, but it turns out that it is for the DS. Seeing that Tales of Symphonia was released for the Wii I jumped at the opportunity to buy it. There is one or two things they could improve, but having played an older version on the PS2 I was happy that it matched the game play I knew and liked.

Re:Crossplatform (1)

diskofish (1037768) | more than 5 years ago | (#26173183)

I would say Wii games are not child oriented at all, just simple and fun. I'll admit that there aren't a TON of games I want to play for Wii, but there are more than enough. Metriod, Super Mario Galaxy, Megaman 9, Excite Truck, Mario Kart, all are great games. Plus it's a great console when friends come over. I have a number of titles for 360, but the only game I play on a regular basis is halo.

Re:Crossplatform (1)

seebs (15766) | more than 5 years ago | (#26174635)

You're not the only one.

But... "Most" of the games are shallow? Maybe so. But what about the couple dozen solid, well-made games which are a ton of fun?

The Wii's got no shortage of great games. It has a ton of junk, but who cares? Don't buy that. There's plenty left to keep you interested, if you look around, keep an eye on reviews, and look for experiences that aren't the same stuff we've been doing ever since the N64.

Re:Crossplatform (1)

grumbel (592662) | more than 5 years ago | (#26174985)

The Wii's got no shortage of great games.

Relative to other consoles it has, a look at Metacritic shows that:

Wii has 66 games above 75%
PS3 has 125 games above 75%
Xbox360 has 212 games above 75%

Now given, there are still a few cool games for the Wii, but hardly enough to satisfy a seasoned gamer.

Re:Crossplatform (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 5 years ago | (#26176199)

You act like metacritic means a god damn thing. It doesn't. First off, metacritic is biased for FPS games. Look at the percentage of FPS games with high rank vs others. Secondly, it's based off the gaming press which is biased towards high graphics blockbusters, because they buy enough advertising to pay for the magazines their published in. Aggregating multiple pieces of shit doesn't make a valid result, it just gives you a bigger pile.

Want to see what games are actually good? Look at sales. Or even sales as a percentage of install base. High sales means that a lot of people were interested enough to buy it. Better yet- look at legs. How long did the game sell for? If it sells for a long time, that means that people are getting a chance to see the game, enjoy it, and tell others to buy it. For a game to have legs it needs to have high quality and lasting appeal. It seems to be something only Nintendo has figured out how to do.

And really, 125 games on the PS3 that are good? I can't think of 2 I'd pay for, if I found them in the bargain bin. I can't think of any I'd pay full price for- the only ones I'd consider would be some of the big non-FPS franchises, but I've played those games for decades. I want something new, and only Wii has that.

Re:Crossplatform (1)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | more than 5 years ago | (#26176743)

You act like metacritic means a god damn thing. It doesn't.

Then we need a better metric. At the moment, metacritic is the most fair one we have. Suggest a better one if you have it, because I sure don't.

Re:Crossplatform (1)

AuMatar (183847) | more than 5 years ago | (#26176833)

How about realising that quality is too subjective to be measurable and not trying?

Re:Crossplatform (1)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | more than 5 years ago | (#26177057)

I agree, but we need some sort of metric to use here. Review scores help me to look for games which are going to appeal to me, even though they're not absolute. And if we're going to get into a discussion (pissing contest, really) about which platform has the most good games, then the need for a metric we can use becomes even more apparent.

We're in perfect agreement that quality is subjective. I'm usually the one trying to argue this. However, not only do tools like metacritic have their place outside this discussion, such a tool is downright necessary for a comparison of which platform has better games.

Re:Crossplatform (1)

grumbel (592662) | more than 5 years ago | (#26177491)

I want something new, and only Wii has that.

Seriously, where exactly are all those new games on the Wii? Wii Sport, sure, that has some new and innovative gameplay (if you ignore Gametrak which was released on PS2 a few years earlier...), but other then that? Galaxy could work with a standard controller just fine, Metroid Prime 3 is a standard FPS with Wiimote controls, nice, but nothing special, Zelda:TP worked on the Gamecube just fine, so did RE4, Okami on the PS2 was fine as well, PaperMario doesn't make much Wiimote use and so on. Whats left? Zack & Wiki, No More Heroes and Bloombox, maybe a small handful of other stuff, but there really isn't much. Most Wii stuff is just old standard gameplay with a bit of waggle thrown in. Really new innovative stuff happens on the Wii just as little as everywhere else. A new controller simply doesn't mean much if all the underlying game mechanics stay the same.

Re:Crossplatform (0)

Shihar (153932) | more than 5 years ago | (#26171737)

I am an adult with a job and a pile of disposable income. I like the idea of the Wii, but find the games to be mostly insipid and uninspiring. Cartoons are cute and all, but I like blood, gore, and adult themes. It is about damn time someone took the Wii, which has a very novel interface, and made a game for people who are over 18 and under 60.

If you don't want your kids playing violent video games, be a fucking parent and prevent them. The rest of the grown ups don't want to suffer because someone else is too lazy to be parent.

The Wii has a very novel controller. It is screaming for some awesome games that are more than glorified cartoons. I'll happily take shittier graphics if it means novel gameplay. Graphics are cute and all, but gameplay is what I crave. The Wii has a massive opportunity to introduce some very novel gameplay. We just need some developers to grow a pair and combine a novel controller with a real game.

Rated H (2, Insightful)

tepples (727027) | more than 5 years ago | (#26172807)

Cartoons are cute and all, but I like blood, gore, and adult themes.

Cartoonish art styles and adult themes aren't mutually exclusive. Have you investigated the world of R- and H-rated anime yet?

Re:Crossplatform (1)

Gizzmonic (412910) | more than 5 years ago | (#26174337)

Uh...there are plenty of violent games on Wii, check this thread if you had any doubts. Madworld might be right up your alley.

Personally, I don't think "blood and guts" equates to "mature," it sounds more like angsty teenagers trying to act mature, but whatever.

Manhunt 2 is rather crap (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26171065)

Manhunt 2 failed not as the platform was not up for M-rated game, but as it is rather paints. The Manhunt IP is just no that good anyway, add on to that the fact that R* is doing nothing with it other than scream "it has lots of blood and shit" and you have a rubbish, over hyped game.

Re:Manhunt 2 is rather crap (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26176623)

Manhunt 2 failed not as the platform was not up for M-rated game, but as it is rather paints.

I disagree, there are been have reasons other of than M-rated, is are but ongoing chair bicycle corn.

mii in GTA? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26171137)

So in GTA, the avatar you'd be controlling in your criminal rampage would be one of those cute, pudgy, simplistic mii things?

And all the passers-by and cops and hookers you shoot and run over would be the mii avatars of your friends and family?

Priceless...

Re:mii in GTA? (1)

VShael (62735) | more than 5 years ago | (#26171163)

Family models for the hookers? That is sick.
Would you still kill them afterwards to get your money back?

Re:mii in GTA? (1)

mlk (18543) | more than 5 years ago | (#26171183)

Excluding Mii family-base hookers, that would so rock.

Re:mii in GTA? (1)

N1AK (864906) | more than 5 years ago | (#26171307)

I hope they don't do this, I downloaded Chuck Norris and Jack Bauer Miis to my console, I wouldn't last 5 minutes :|

Re:mii in GTA? (1)

Gandalf_Greyhame (44144) | more than 5 years ago | (#26171367)

in that case, don't get a MacGyver Mii.. you'll be dead in 2 mins

Re:mii in GTA? (1)

LoverOfJoy (820058) | more than 5 years ago | (#26171621)

MacGuyver's a lover, not a fighter. He doesn't even us guns, does he? Although he might make a bomb out of a chocolate bar if you lock him up.

Animal Crossing is more mature (5, Insightful)

frenchbedroom (936100) | more than 5 years ago | (#26171431)

It's funny how most "mature-rated games" actually sound *immature* to me. I mean, stealing fancy cars and shooting big guns ? Wow, count me in, NOT.

I actually think a game like Animal Crossing is way more mature. YES, Animal friggin' Crossing, people! Just look at the plot : you move in a new city, all by yourself, you have to pay your mortgage with money that you earn by _working_, you learn to participate in the cultural life of the town by donating to the museum, you have to take care of public space, plant trees and flowers to make a great place for everybody. You meet a lot of people, some are okay, some are unbearable but you have to learn to live with them, and some will become your friends. Sometimes you'll have to help them out by buying their stuff, or finding the keys they lost. Some of them will eventually move out to other towns and you'll never see them AGAIN.

Now THOSE are some major life lessons, folks.

Re:Animal Crossing is more mature (1)

xtracto (837672) | more than 5 years ago | (#26171837)

You move in a new city, all by yourself, you have to pay your mortgage with money that you earn by _working_, you learn to participate in the cultural life of the town by donating to the museum, you have to take care of public space, plant trees and flowers to make a great place for everybody.

Yay! a game in which I have to get in a job and have good society skills in order to win??

Thanks for the review... I will absolutely avoid it. You know, as they say... I prefer to get a first life.

Re:Animal Crossing is more mature (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26172127)

I think it says a lot about society when maturity and violence are assumed to go hand in hand.

Re:Animal Crossing is more mature (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26172959)

I think most people play video games to take a break from regular life, not to relive it in virtual form.

Re:Animal Crossing is more mature (1)

argent (18001) | more than 5 years ago | (#26175099)

In other words, they don't actually want mature games?

Re:Animal Crossing is more mature (1)

Have Blue (616) | more than 5 years ago | (#26178687)

Why am I playing the game at all, if the only difference between it and real life is that everyone I interact with is a talking animal? I can easily go outside and do the odd favor for neighborhood characters, buy stuff to redecorate, or take out a mortgage; I can't go murder a small army of nazis/mutants/terrorists/aliens singlehandedly or attack my friends with sharp objects and live ammo. Video games are good at providing those things, so I go to them when I want them. Using games to closely parallel easily obtainable reality is a waste.

Re:Animal Crossing is more mature (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26172975)

Aren't games fun because of the suspension of reality? You get to do things that you normally cant or are just freaking impossible. If you want to donate to a museum or plant a tree, go do it for real instead of sitting in front of your TV.

Captcha: condom

Re:Animal Crossing is more mature (2, Insightful)

david_thornley (598059) | more than 5 years ago | (#26173355)

It's also got a fantasy component: you can actually pay off all your mortgages. Now there's a desirable fantasy for millions of us!

Re:Animal Crossing is more mature (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 5 years ago | (#26174491)

To say nothing of the talking to animals... most people I know are at least into their sixties before they start talking to animals!

Re:Animal Crossing is more mature (1)

StikyPad (445176) | more than 5 years ago | (#26176109)

I learned to drive by playing GTA, you insensitive clod. Why, just this morning I bailed out of my car in front of my office and then stood in front of the door until someone appeared and told me what to do next. The only thing that sucks is that there are no good cars in this part of town, so I'll have to use some old beater after work until I can get over to the nicer areas. Once I find a Lamborghini or Ferrari, I'll use that, but I won't bother to put it in my garage because even if it makes it home without exploding, it'll probably be covered with dents and missing a door or two.

Re:Animal Crossing is more mature (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26177845)

Yes, because major life lessons are exactly what I look forward to in a game.

I myself loved GTA:IV. The voice-acting was great, the story was fun, and if I got bored I could just start firing at crowds and then running from the police. And the big gun games like Bioshock, Fallout3, and Call of Duty 4 are just a pleasure to play.

A fair number of ``M'' rated games already (2, Interesting)

WillAdams (45638) | more than 5 years ago | (#26171905)

Resident Evil
Call of Duty
No More Heroes

Whether or no a game succeeds isn't about the rating, it's about the content and game play and story line (or lack thereof) and unfortunately, it's all too often about the lack.

On the Wii one adds in a need for supporting the Wii motion controls in a natural (Resident Evil Wii edition --- what's up w/ requiring pressing _2_ buttons to fire a pistol?!?) and reliable way (DragonQuest Swords I'm looking at you on that last), and even if the game is okay on other platforms, then it fails as a Wii game if it only involves mashing buttons (Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn, please re-write the UI to support more than just buttons!).

Yes, I know, only one of the games that I'm criticizing has an M rating.

William

Re:A fair number of ``M'' rated games already (3, Informative)

trdrstv (986999) | more than 5 years ago | (#26172727)

Resident Evil Wii edition --- what's up w/ requiring pressing _2_ buttons to fire a pistol?!?)

That was a design choice forcing a small gap in time between "Draw pistol", "aim" and "fire pistol". This was in all versions of RE4.

Re:A fair number of ``M'' rated games already (1)

WillAdams (45638) | more than 5 years ago | (#26173415)

I find it (pressing two buttons to fire) bizarre, and moreover, it makes it impossible to use a Wii Zapper or Nyko Perfect Shot Pistol w/ the game (Yes, I know it pre-dates both of these products).

William

Mad World (2, Informative)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 5 years ago | (#26173251)

One game that must be mentioned is Mad World:

http://www.sega.com/platinumgames/madworld/EnglishUK/index2.html [sega.com]

This really looks like some pure crazy psychotic pleasure. Its black and white and red - the red being blood, and the black and white being everything else. I won't be buying it, but I am sure that there is a whole army of people who will.

The wii still needs better parental controls (1)

mark-t (151149) | more than 5 years ago | (#26171979)

Although the ability to lock out games rated above or below a certain threshold is useful as a general policy and provides a decent starting ground, as a parent, I still wish that the parental controls on the wii had the additional ability to whitelist or blacklist certain programs, which might otherwise be denied or accepted based on the game rating.

Re:The wii still needs better parental controls (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26172239)

Surely actual parental supervision and monitoring is still the best way to control what your children play on the Wii?

Console manufacturers can only do so much without being vilified as "facilitating declining parental responsibility" by making it easier for parents to leave it up to the console to control what their kids see on the screen. If you don't want your kids seeing certain content then control their access to the physical game discs, or the Wiimotes. That's the only way to keep them safe and innocent in a day and age where adult content is more accessible than ever.

Re:The wii still needs better parental controls (1)

trdrstv (986999) | more than 5 years ago | (#26172671)

Surely actual parental supervision and monitoring is still the best way to control what your children play on the Wii?

Personally I'd love to be able to white list/black list specific games. Not all games with the same rating have the same content or are viewed the same by parents. For Example, as a general rule I would lock down [insert current console as they all have this feature] all games that aren't "E for everyone". I have a reasonable expectation that my child wouldn't be subjected to much questionable material whether it's language, gore or whatever. I would still like the ability to approve a specific TEEN rated game (like Rock Band) and make that available without making the rest of the TEEN rated games available for him.

Kids will be kids, and you can't monitor your child's activities all the time. Some parents allow children to have game systems in their bedrooms (I wouldn't, but I suppose it works for some); those controls are simply there to enforce your rules when you aren't looking. Like if/when your kid buys or borrows a game that you don't approve of. It's naturally going to happen, and these tools are a parent's aid not a substitute to parenting.

Re:The wii still needs better parental controls (1)

mark-t (151149) | more than 5 years ago | (#26172813)

I imagine it's very easy to sit there and accuse me of being a lazy parent. What you suggest may be an ideal, but is neither possible nor practical in my situation. Among other reasons, my kids are not infants, they are teens. What I would ask for from the Wii is certainly technologically doable, and not only could but _would_ save me a world of grief from my family. What I'd want is to block all M-rated games, as the wii has the ability to do, but specifically _allow_ ones that I've previewed and seen as acceptable.

But I suppose you'll just accuse me of being a control freak next... more concerned with manipulating people than the welfare of my kids. I'll try not to take the accusation too seriously, as I realize it's far easier to judge people as incompetent at what they do than it is to try to work with them toward solving a desired goal.

Re:The wii still needs better parental controls (1)

gujo-odori (473191) | more than 5 years ago | (#26177931)

Yeah, what you said. Plus, I think most readers of /. appreciate the value of redundant systems. I supervise what games my kids are allowed to play, with whom they associate, what they read, and what they watch on TV, and provide input on what they do play/watch/read, and about their friends as appropriate. That's part of being a dad and getting it right.

Parental control systems serve as a back-up to that, giving me a redundant system.

Re:The wii still needs better parental controls (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 5 years ago | (#26174451)

Or you could just relax, and realize that your precious snowflake is not going to be harmed by a bunch of polygons on a screen.

Resident Evil 4 on the Wii (1)

olddotter (638430) | more than 5 years ago | (#26172687)

This game rocks on the Wii. Much like many other games once you play with the Wii remote, you wonder why its even released on other consoles. (Golf games are great for that.) Patrick

Controversial Manhunt 2? (1)

morari (1080535) | more than 5 years ago | (#26172827)

That game wasn't controversial, it just sucked.

Re:Controversial Manhunt 2? (1)

The Moof (859402) | more than 5 years ago | (#26173219)

While I'm not a fan of the Manhunt series (IMO, interesting concept executed very poorly), you could debate all day about Manhunt 2 sucking due to the modifications forced by the original AO rating, or just because Rockstar can't make a good Manhunt game.

Either way, I patiently wait for Madworld (and hope it doesn't suffer the same AO-based censorship that Manhunt 2 did).

Why not 2 version? (1)

sudnshok (136477) | more than 5 years ago | (#26173309)

I really enjoyed the first Manhunt for Playstation. When I heard Manhunt 2 was coming out for the Wii, I was psyched. Then, after all the controversy, they decided to censor the game by blurring out a major portion of the game - the violent cut scenes. I decided not to buy the game since I am an adult and should be able to buy the game uncensored.

My question is, why can't game devs release 2 versions of a game with different ratings - one being censored and one going all out?

Re:Why not 2 version? (1)

Shados (741919) | more than 5 years ago | (#26173903)

Because retailers will not sell an A rated game. The original version of Manhunt 2 got an A rating, so stores like Walmart wouldn't carry it. Kindda hard to justify the expenses on a game you can't sell in most places.

Re:Why not 2 version? (1)

k_187 (61692) | more than 5 years ago | (#26174607)

More than that, I believe all three console makers(well, I know Nintendo and MS did, not sure about Sony) said they will not license an AO rated game. So even if R* wanted to sell an uncensored version direct, they would not have been able to.

More mature than the current games for wii? (1)

Mister_Stoopid (1222674) | more than 5 years ago | (#26173803)

So they're going to make some games suitable for 10 year olds? I keed, I keed!

Great (2, Funny)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 5 years ago | (#26174007)

So it's just a matter of time before we see Custer's Revenge [wikipedia.org] for the Wii? I can't wait!

Peripherals? (1)

argent (18001) | more than 5 years ago | (#26174573)

So are they going to have more innovative mature peripherals [megatokyo.com] ?

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