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Woohoo, Robot War here I come (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26312075)

And Leather Goddesses of Phobos

Re:Woohoo, Robot War here I come (1)

F34nor (321515) | more than 5 years ago | (#26312607)

Castle Wolfenstien! Impossible Mission! Karataka!

Anyway...

I tried one of the online editors but I could not remember or find any of the commands for the Apple OS. Hwo the fuck do you use BRUN??? I cannot remember and it shames me deeply.

Re:Woohoo, Robot War here I come (1)

alain94040 (785132) | more than 5 years ago | (#26314309)

What I remember is "20 FF 58". That means jump to subroutine at address $FF58, which happens to be in the ROM of the Apple II and contains the magical "60", meaning return. What is the point of jumping to a return? So that you can find out your own address by looking at the stack(*). From there, you could start relocating your code. Remember: no virtual memory, no pagination, no nothing. You had to find a way.

(*) and later discover that in the 1/million chance that you got an interrupt precisely during the return, what's on the stack is not your address, but someone else's. But interrupts on the Apple II were infrequent to say the least.

Re:Woohoo, Robot War here I come (1)

MacColossus (932054) | more than 5 years ago | (#26317229)

Karateka was awesome. We wore out a couple lab keyboards playing that back in the 80's. Kind of like Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter a decade in advance.

Re:Woohoo, Robot War here I come (1)

farrellj (563) | more than 5 years ago | (#26315859)

Welcome back, Bilestode, Wavy Navy, Lode Runner, Super Stellar Trek and Softporn Adventure!

Now if I could just find copies of those games....

ttyl
          Farrell

Re:Woohoo, Robot War here I come (2, Informative)

dosius (230542) | more than 5 years ago | (#26316543)

ftp.apple.asimov.net

*RUNS*

-uso.

Re:Woohoo, Robot War here I come (1)

HTH NE1 (675604) | more than 5 years ago | (#26337843)

Sabotage [wikipedia.org] ! The original of what you PC owners came to know as Paratrooper and iPod users as Parachute.

Some out with a IIgs emulator and I'll finish my port of this game to IIgs graphics.

Meanwhile I'll need to hook up my PowerMac 7500 (upgraded to a G3) to read my 3.5" ProDOS disks and get them onto a system with an SD card writer, and my IIgs to get what's still on 5.25" converted to disk images on 3.5" disks. (I don't know if the OS currently on the 7500 can do AppleTalk networking anymore.)

what's in a name (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26312205)

So is it called the WIIe or Wiie ?

Re:what's in a name (2, Funny)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 5 years ago | (#26312859)

iWii

Wii emulator (5, Funny)

flargleblarg (685368) | more than 5 years ago | (#26312225)

That's great! I wrote a Wii emulator on the Apple //e back in 1983. Now I can run that again!

Re:Wii emulator (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26312485)

wrong kind of wii..

Re:Wii emulator (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26312967)

Just which system is emulating which, and in how many layers? ;)
The recursion there kinda threw me into insanity.

Re:Wii emulator (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26313453)

I loved a post on slashdot awhile back.. paraphrasing it went something like this:

"It's virtualized all the way down. No bare metal."

Re:Wii emulator (1)

Evets (629327) | more than 5 years ago | (#26315149)

Woohoo! I can start writing in LOGO again!!!

Green/Amber Turtle rules!

I liked LOGO. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26321705)

It's a shame it's just remembered for the turtle graphics thing. Any TIL with lists is fine in my book.

The Apple //e had crappy sound anyways... (1)

mark-t (151149) | more than 5 years ago | (#26312227)

So not having sound is really not a big deal. All it could really do was make beeps and clicks... sounding like a wannabe R2-D2.

Re:The Apple //e had crappy sound anyways... (2, Informative)

Hatta (162192) | more than 5 years ago | (#26312293)

Some games supported the add in Mockingboard which provided more sophisticated synthesis. Ultima III, IV, and V all supported the Mockingboard. The Linapple emulator does support the mockingboard, so it should be possible on this Wii port, if they can get the sound working at all.

Re:The Apple //e had crappy sound anyways... (2, Informative)

VanessaE (970834) | more than 5 years ago | (#26313833)

I'm no fan of Apple (I prefer Commodore when it comes to the 8-bit era), but a stock Apple II can do more than just beeps and clicks - it can do full digital audio using pulse width modulation. I'm not sure of the effective resolution (more than 1 bit, for sure, probably closer to 6-8 bits), but I've heard at least a couple of examples of this, including a multi-voice music player, and it actually didn't sound half bad for an otherwise rudimentary output.

Re:The Apple //e had crappy sound anyways... (1)

DarkVader (121278) | more than 5 years ago | (#26322057)

There's just one problem with that. It can't.

At least not without additional hardware.

The Apple II has a 1 bit audio circuit, you control the audio by reading one location in memory.

But you did hear it do it, and that's purely because somebody was really good with assembly programming of that clicker - it could be made to sound like a multi-voice synthesizer with creative timing of the clicks.

Amazing results with limited hardware... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26325047)

I would call your understanding of the audio circuitry as incomplete...

Yes, there is a single flip-flop control for the Apple II speaker output, which you can toggle once with a LDA $C030 command, or toggle twice with a STA $C030 command, and control these "clicks" by careful timing between commands. Sounds very digital... click to high state or click to low state.

However, there is an analog component to the circuit as well, and this makes all the difference. If you include the characteristics of the DC blocking capacitor, the inductance of the speaker coil, and the actual cone motion, you can obtain amplitude control over the output waveform by carefully selecting the timing between close spaced "clicks".

Over the years, clever developers created amazing sounds with the Apple II, using this very limited 1-bit hardware. This is the best example I know of where the hardware was used in ways not intended as part of the original design to achieve amazing results. I'm sure the final sounds people acheived on the Apple II far exceeded the expectations of The Woz when he designed that sound circuit.

Re:The Apple //e had crappy sound anyways... (2, Interesting)

VanessaE (970834) | more than 5 years ago | (#26327819)

And depending on how those clicks were timed, the technique was probably pulse width modulation. It's simply the easiest way to turn a 1 bit output into something greater. At present, PWM is used commonly in CD players, motor speed controllers, and probably your PC's power supply. Hell, even a Commodore mouse uses it [1]. There's not much limit to the applications this method can be applied to. Higher drive current and/or voltage, a faster pulse rate, and finer pulse width granularity are usually better, but the fundamentals are the same pretty much anywhere a variable voltage is needed if everything is otherwise sane.

Since I don't know the intimate details of the Apple II beyond the presence of that flip flop output, I'll speak from a generic perspective, to expand on the comments made by the AC below.

Suppose you have a basic computer with a 1 MHz system clock and one or more generic I/O chips with ordinary TTL outputs, among its various other hardware.

In your code, configure a main interrupt to trigger at a fairly decent clip, let's say 25000 times a second. Each time it triggers, have it set up a second interrupt, force an I/O line high, and exit. That second interrupt should fire a short time after it is enabled, and it should do nothing but set the I/O line low and exit when triggered.

Call the second interrupt's time delay "D", as it represents the pulse's duty cycle. Structure the primary interrupt's code so that, when D is zero, the secondary interrupt code can chime in (that is, before the main interrupt can even exit) and force the I/O line to low right after the main interrupt sets it high.

On the hardware side, couple that I/O line through the usual R/C circuit and attach to a speaker. As the AC below already said, this is what was done in every Apple II, and this is what will do most of the work to turn that train of pulses into a smooth voltage. With your 10 MHz system clock, a 25 kHz pulse train gives you 40 cycles between the pulses' leading edges, so your average voltage output will be about (100*(D/40)) percent of that of the high rail.

Do something simple that makes D the same amount at all times, and you've got a configurable voltage output. Change D every so often to follow a digital sample and you've got a 25 kHz output with about 5.32193 bits of resolution.

Since there will be some timing variation and latency in the interrupts, the available resolution will be slightly lower that this theoretical maximum (probably 5 bits even). Because of the large amount of CPU time consumed by the interrupt routines, this method works best if the I/O line is something like a timed shift register port. Then you only need a single interrupt that reads a sample value, sets the I/O line's timer accordingly, writes to the serial register any value that has only one bit set, and then exits.

The fact that this all requires good assembly language skills on the 8-bitters does not change the fact that it *is* full digital audio - you need good skills regardless of the type of audio output hardware you're working with.

*[1] I 'scoped it once years ago and was surprised to find that the 1351 mouse uses PWM to generate the analog signals that are sensed as voltage levels by the POTX/POTY lines in the controller port.

Re:The Apple //e had crappy sound anyways... (1)

nacturation (646836) | more than 5 years ago | (#26315703)

So not having sound is really not a big deal. All it could really do was make beeps and clicks... sounding like a wannabe R2-D2.

Clearly you never played Ghostbusters [youtube.com] or that vertical scroller submarine game (anybody remember what I'm talking about?).

Re:The Apple //e had crappy sound anyways... (1)

nacturation (646836) | more than 5 years ago | (#26315771)

Replying to myself (my bad) but the game was Sea Dragon [wikipedia.org] and included a quite clear voice that announced "Attention Captain. Your ship's computer is now ready. Please wait while I initialize the systems".

Re:The Apple //e had crappy sound anyways... (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 5 years ago | (#26318729)

I had a voice synthesiser for the Apple ][

Linapple (3, Informative)

Hatta (162192) | more than 5 years ago | (#26312255)

The Linapple port of AppleWin that this thing is based on is great. For the longest time there was no good option for the AppleII on linux. xapple2 only ran in 8 bits, blech. kegs was ok, but I could never get it to run Ultima II. AppleWin ran in wine, but it didn't like to be full screened. Mess worked ok, but there was a bug when swapping disks. When Linapple came around it was really nice. It was not perfect, iirc it won't take a disk image as an argument, you have to boot it through the GUI. But that's a small quibble.

In the end I just got a real IIgs. That's always the best way to go. BTW, have you seen the prices on DSDD media these days? One 25 pack of 5.25" media cost me just about as much as my IIgs did. But that's ok Wasteland is awesome!

Re:Linapple (4, Informative)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 5 years ago | (#26313039)

BTW, have you seen the prices on DSDD media these days?

About $1 a disk. Which isn't that bad. Not as good as they were back in the day, but probably not too far off after adjusting for inflation.

The best place I've found for floppies is (the oddly obvious) http://www.floppydisk.com/ [floppydisk.com] . The disks come well packed and are of high quality. I have not had a single disk fail. Not sure if that's cheaper than your current source, but it might be worth looking into. :-)

Re:Linapple (2, Interesting)

the_B0fh (208483) | more than 5 years ago | (#26313143)

Where the heck did you get Wasteland from? I succumbed to nostalgia, and downloaded some MS-DOS versions of wasteland. Holy Mother of God, CGA graphics sucked big time compared to Apple II Hi-Res. I played Wasteland on my Apple ][GS, and don't remember it sucking that much.

Re:Linapple (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 5 years ago | (#26313675)

I was able to track down some .dsk images and used ADTPro to transfer the disks over a serial cable. ADTPro didn't like the .nib files I found everywhere, so it took some looking but they're out there. It's highly worthwhile tracking them down.

Other than not liking my .nib images, ADTPro is a really nice program. It makes working with disk images dead simple, and bootstrapping itself on a naked apple II is pretty impressive.

Re:Linapple (2, Informative)

pashdown (124942) | more than 5 years ago | (#26313443)

Depending on how many disks you are buying, you might want to consider purchasing a Semi-Virtual Diskette [rothfus.com] .

Re:Linapple (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 5 years ago | (#26313537)

I think my next purchase for the unit will actually be one of the CF-IDE adaptors. Even a 64 MB card is a ton of space for an apple II. That does look like a cool project though.

Wasteland! Great Googly Moogly (1)

cwingrav (8705) | more than 5 years ago | (#26313783)

What an outstanding game! Wow. Memories. Fallout based on Wasteland my b*tt. I have so many fond memories of Proton Axes and things exploding like blood sausages... though I've never seen an explosive sausage I imagine it is quite grievous to behold.

Memories are Forever (2, Interesting)

alain94040 (785132) | more than 5 years ago | (#26312431)

This is great... Now, all you have to do is install the preventive multitasking OS [ordinotheque.free.fr] I had written at the time then try to bootstrap Minix from it, and you'll have the best of the 80s.

So many memories, so little time. How many people on /. even have fond memories of the Apple II? Just showing my age I guess. Anyone below 30 who even knows what it was like at the time? I ran my first BBS on an Apple II. Kind of like slashdot, minus the traffic :-)

Re:Memories are Forever (1)

Nimey (114278) | more than 5 years ago | (#26312569)

I had an Apple //c for several years and many fond memories of games like "Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego", various versions of Oregon Trail, the Stickybear edutainment titles, Wings of Fury, and even doing Appleworks spreadsheet work for my high school ROTC unit, after my //c had been retired.

We did typing class on the //c as well; I forget which program that was on ("Wonderful World of PAWS?), and also practice in "Bank Street Writer". My math classes included a couple sessions with an adventure/math game whose name escapes me -- you walked around in a virtual hotel, talking to people and solving math problems in an effort to solve a (murder?) mystery. Not enough //c to go around, so we doubled up.

Re:Memories are Forever (1)

dosius (230542) | more than 5 years ago | (#26316581)

Yep, I used PAWS (I'd like to find .dsks for that!)

I'd like to find a bunch of MECC and TLC software that's not up on Asimov too. I used to use Word Wizard all the time, and I had a copy of CNYICN's version of Elementary vol.6 (I think it was - the one with OREGON). And I still can't find Juggles' Rainbow (which I even had, for a while, in its IBM port too - IBM called it "Juggles' Butterfly").

-uso.

Re:Memories are Forever (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26313123)

Now, all you have to do is install the preventive multitasking OS I had

I think that the word you were looking for there was "preemptive" [google.com] .

HTH. HAND.

Re:Memories are Forever (1)

Minwee (522556) | more than 5 years ago | (#26313495)

I see that you either never used multitasking operating systems back then, or have simply blocked out the horrifying memories.

Re:Memories are Forever (1)

ckblackm (1137057) | more than 5 years ago | (#26313513)

What do you mean memories? I've still got a working IIgs and a IIc+ :-) But then again, I collect vintage computers & game systems (love my intellivision). And yes, I'm older than 30. Christopher.

Re:Memories are Forever (1)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 5 years ago | (#26317267)

(cue music)And so I plaaaaay my... Intel-e-viiiiision.(/cue music)

Intellivision rocks the world. I don't care what anyone says about the controllers. Dreadnaught Factor rocked. Utopia rocked. Shark! Shark! rocked. Space Spartans rocked. Astrosmash rocked. Burgertime rocked. Diner rocked. Thin Ice rocked. Vec--

Oh hell, just go here [intellivisiongames.com] and imagine that only 10% of that list sucks. And there you have the only ever instance of an inverted Sturgeon's Law.

Re:Memories are Forever (1)

Cor-cor (1330671) | more than 5 years ago | (#26313745)

Anyone below 30 who even knows what it was like at the time?

I'm 20, the first computers I ever saw would have probably been an Apple II lab my school had. I can't quite remember what we did with them, I think there was a math or typing game that we loaded from those massive floppies.

Re:Memories are Forever (1)

Nimey (114278) | more than 5 years ago | (#26314263)

Whippersnapper! Those 5.25" floppies were just the right size.

Re:Memories are Forever (1)

KillerBob (217953) | more than 5 years ago | (#26316509)

Logo. Apparently, when I hit school in 1987, they had a lab full of Apple ][ computers, and I was teaching the teachers how to use it, having had an IBM Compatible grey box since 1985.... All we ever did with it was play around in Logo, and play Oregon Trail or other "educational" games like that.

Re:Memories are Forever (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | more than 5 years ago | (#26318747)

Anyone below 30 who even knows what it was like at the time?

I'm 20, the first computers I ever saw would have probably been an Apple II lab my school had. I can't quite remember what we did with them, I think there was a math or typing game that we loaded from those massive floppies.

At the time, they were the small floppies.

Re:Memories are Forever (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26316971)

This is great... Now, all you have to do is install the preventive multitasking OS [ordinotheque.free.fr] I had written at the time

I thought Windows was the preventive multitasking OS du jour.

Re:Memories are Forever (1)

muridae (966931) | more than 5 years ago | (#26325015)

Not 30 yet, and have lots of fond memories of the Apple II systems. Got to play with them in school around 4th grade, some IIe boxes. We had Oregon Trail, and a few educational games. Wrote my first code on those machines, someone got smart and taught us 4th and 5th graders how to write BASIC. Switching from Apple DOS to ProDOS was a good trainer for later, learning how all the layers separate and which layer does what.

Later, parents bought a Laser 128 from someone else. It came with some many games, but most of them copy protected and the guy had lost the books. Luckily I already knew how to program, and working backwards was half the fun of getting the games to run.

Re:Memories are Forever (1)

NudeAvenger (1391803) | more than 5 years ago | (#26329085)

I'm 25 and my first computer was a IIe... although I got it because the school was throwing them out through them being obsolete, and if a school is throwing them out - you know they're old! sometimes I miss gosub.

I wonder if... (1)

XDirtypunkX (1290358) | more than 5 years ago | (#26312561)

... the Woz will put it through it's paces and point out any errata or caveats the emulator author has missed.

Re:I wonder if... (4, Informative)

g051051 (71145) | more than 5 years ago | (#26312603)

I don't think so. I exchanged a few messages with hin in the past, and asked if he had tried any of the AppleII emulators, or had contributed his unique expertise to any of them. He said he thought they were neat, but didn't have the time to spend on looking at them or contributing. Too bad!

Bad pun (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26312759)

So, it's like an Apple wII?

Wapple//e (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26326679)

or something like Wapple//e

This just in... (-1, Offtopic)

LittleBigScript (618162) | more than 5 years ago | (#26313045)

This just in: Anything can reach the front page of Slashdot. Anything.

Re:This just in... (2, Informative)

pashdown (124942) | more than 5 years ago | (#26313309)

Looks like the article has just been demoted to "Games". Seriously though, this is just the most recent in a long line of emulator ports to the Wii. The chaps banging Linux onto the Wii are doing a lot more interesting work.

Re:This just in... (1)

fortapocalypse (1231686) | more than 5 years ago | (#26313325)

This just in: anyone can comment. Anyone. ;)

Re:This just in... (1)

fortapocalypse (1231686) | more than 5 years ago | (#26313659)

By that I mean me, btw- I was just trying to be funny, but it probably just sounded stupid. :( Sorry about that.

If you have better stories that you'd like to submit, the thing to do is to:

  • Submit it to Index unless it is an Ask Slashdot topic (in which case, submit to Ask Slashdot), make sure the categorization is appropriate.
  • Make sure what you write notes something novel of interest to /. readers.
  • Try to keep emotion and sarcasm out of it, unless it is really, really well-placed emotion and/or sarcasm. ;)
  • Make sure that it is at least 3-4 sentences, but not more than 10 sentences (roughly).
  • Make sure that it is or sounds intelligent, unless you are going the "please make fun of me" route which works in extreme cases!
  • Make sure that it gives a summary and paraphrased or actual quotes of the interesting points of some article or blog post you found.
  • This is key- the article must be extremely recent, like within last few hours.
  • And then you're right- if a moderator likes it, everything fitting that description might get posted, but it might not.

Finally, assuming that you are trying to comment on the moderation on Slashdot, I would say the best judge of whether a moderator is doing a good job is by the average number of comments on their approved submissions. And by that, I think they do a good job!

The BASIC program he wrote (0, Flamebait)

ashitaka (27544) | more than 5 years ago | (#26313073)

10 FOR I = 1 TO 100000
20 PRINT TAB(I); "WII SUCKS!!"
30 NEXT I
40 GOTO 10

Re:The BASIC program he wrote (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26313161)

I tried running your program but this is what came out of it?

PENUS
PENUS
PENUS ...

Re:The BASIC program he wrote (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26313241)

Here is memory compact, improved version.

1 ? "WII SUCKS!! "; : GOTO 1

That is a nice reduced bit of code there, if I do say so myself!

Oregon Trail on the big screen! (1)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 5 years ago | (#26313217)

Now I can get dysentery from the comfort of my sofa!

Finally! (1)

konohitowa (220547) | more than 5 years ago | (#26313605)

This is the most excited I've been since the Casio C-80 emulator was released for the Cray XT5!

Finally (3, Funny)

jalefkowit (101585) | more than 5 years ago | (#26313705)

Now I can play Oregon Trail the way it was MEANT to be played: by throwing my controller at deer as they run by.

(btw, if anyone knows where I can get a good deal on a new flat-panel TV, lemme know)

Since Wii has a Web browser. (1)

antdude (79039) | more than 5 years ago | (#26314791)

Is it possible to use VirtualApple [virtualapple.org] ? I assume no since Wii doesn't use IE and Firefox due to addons. :(

Re:Since Wii has a Web browser. (1)

kevind23 (1296253) | more than 5 years ago | (#26315775)

Why would anyone in their right mind use IE? Certainly Nintendo wouldn't stoop that low.

At any rate, that site doesn't even work on Linux, so I can't imagine why it would run on the Wii.

Re:Since Wii has a Web browser. (1)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 5 years ago | (#26317573)

The Internet Channel is Opera-based. It supports Widgets, but has no plugin architecture. Not that it would help. VirtualApple is written for Windows and Windows alone. It would be a major porting effort to make it work on another OS.

Re:Since Wii has a Web browser. (1)

antdude (79039) | more than 5 years ago | (#26317765)

Hmm, you need Windows for Firefox extension? That stinks!

Locksmith 5.0? Nibbles Away? Clone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26315111)

What about PR#6

call -151

That'll see how good the emulator is

Meh... Why IIe? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26315349)

Games for the IIe and pre-486 PCs blew chunks...

Call back when they get a proper Atari XE (because it has the de-bugged version of Atari-BASIC the XLs didn't have) or Commodore C64 emulation on the Wii. The BASIC on those machines weren't too bad, having shorthand and perhaps a few neat de-bugging features. (At least I knew you could run the List command under a program line number on the Atari and do some evaluation of the output. And I remember a crude hash-checksum program from Antic Magazine that used it to check typed in programs for errors before running them.) Also those were the game machines to have from the day, since they had better versions of arcade games than the gaming consoles (2600 and Nintendo Game System) of the era. They had actual color instead of monochrome (and palletes beyond 16-color), 4 channel sound with tone/noise generators, and could do nifty things during the screen interupt so you could get fairly fast and smooth sprite animation and other cool effects. (They were the bee's knees, until the Amiga and ST showed up. And then Amiga and ST were pretty much the best until decent Macs and modern post-486 multimedia PCs with proper graphics and sound cards came on scene.)

The only kids that that really thought the IIe's (or early PCs) were all that great were the ones that had parents spend too much money on a computer, or only had exposure to the computers that the schools got via heavy educational discounts. I suppose that slow rendering green monochrome with crappy sound was better than no computer though.

Tagged Whoopdefuckingdo. (1)

binaryspiral (784263) | more than 5 years ago | (#26317095)

Who ever tagged the story with whoopdefuckingdo - thank you for the LOL moment.

Carry on.

Sound Support (1)

yohanes (644299) | more than 5 years ago | (#26318097)

Wow, I didn't know that this will get into slashdot (like the tag said: whoopdefuckingdo)

Sound is now supported, it is still not perfect yet, but you can hear "SeaDragon" and other games. If you don't like the sound emulation, just mute your TV.

XBOX (0, Troll)

rtechie (244489) | more than 5 years ago | (#26318193)

I don't have a wii. I do know it's a huge step backwards from a hacked original XBOX for emulation. The original XBOXes were x86/Windows based which made porting all kinds of software far easier than other consoles. I have an emulator for virtually every system for the original XBOX and many of them are far superior to what's available on the wii. In particular this is true of Nintendo 64 emulation, where games are relatively bug-free on the XBOX but barely work on the wii at all. And of course having access to a hard drive helps a lot.

If you want an emulation box go to GameStop and buy a used original XBOX and an orginal XBOX memory card, then follow one of the online tutorials to soft-mod it. It's really not that difficult. From there you can load hard drive images which will give you dashboards with dozens of emulators and thousands of games and the awesomeness that is XBOX Media Center. XBMC is an incredibly successful homebrew project that in fact FAR outstrips the capabilities of commercial products. It stomps all over AppleTV (for example).

It is highly unlikely we'll see a console better for homebrew anytime soon, so get 'em while you can.

Re:XBOX (1)

ral8158 (947954) | more than 5 years ago | (#26320023)

'Barely work on the wii at all'? I've got 4 N64 games from the Wii Shop Channel and I've had no errors.

And I thought APPLE fanboys were bad. The 'XBOX' ones are worse.

Re:XBOX (1)

rtechie (244489) | more than 5 years ago | (#26408207)

Which ones? I've got Mario 64 and Ocaria of Time and both have audio, framerate, and REALLY NASTY clipping problems on the wii Virtual Console. These issues don't exist in my PC emulator (which is the same one I use on the original XBOX).

Have you ever played N64 games in a PC emulator? I thought not.

Re:XBOX (1)

MikeBabcock (65886) | more than 5 years ago | (#26322377)

You do realize that most open source emulators and such compile on non-Intel platforms just fine, right? Many of us free software types aren't glued to a single architecture and cross-compiling isn't totally strange.

Re:XBOX (1)

rtechie (244489) | more than 5 years ago | (#26408205)

You do realize that most open source emulators and such compile on non-Intel platforms just fine, right?

Actually, no. This is a myth. I've done significant embedded development on Linux (MIPS, PowerPC) and it's a MAJOR PITA to port many apps to non-x86 architectures in large part because the compilers suck. If you don't feel like re-wiriting large chunks of source code your x86 app is unlikely to work in PowerPC. Running a VM is cheating. Spend some time working on Gentoo, you'll notice there is a LOT more software for x86 than PowerPC. Look at the capabilities of PS3 Linux vs. original XBOX Linux. There is a very wide gulf.

And finally, some of the emulators I'm talking about are Windows-based. I wasn't clear before, but the original XBOX runs Windows 2000 so with relatively minimal changes you can run Windows apps just fine on the original XBOX.

Re:XBOX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26326195)

Hmm, most of the homebrew stuff for the Wii can be distributed without having to worry about license agreements since most do not seem to be using official Nintendo license stuff. (As in the libraries are homebrew)

Most of the Xbox stuff however, is using Microsoft's own SDK, which is why you normally can't find a high profile website offering the files.

To quote Xbox-Scene.net "Built with (MS) XDK" or "Built with (MS) SDK" What does it mean? [xbox-scene.com]

It means the software you are trying to download has been compiled with the official Microsoft® SDK (System Development Kit) for Xbox.
This compiler is only available to Microsoft approved programmers and can not be used to build 'homebrew software'.
That's what makes the software you want to download 'illegal' (not in our eyes - as the software itself has completely been written by the programmer - but in the eyes of the law it is illegal).

Re:XBOX (1)

rtechie (244489) | more than 5 years ago | (#26408301)

Hmm, most of the homebrew stuff for the Wii can be distributed without having to worry about license agreements since most do not seem to be using official Nintendo license stuff. (As in the libraries are homebrew)

You have to violate the DMCA to run the hacks to allow you to run homebrew software, so this strikes me as a very fine distinction. MS isn't very aggressive with the XBOX developers BTW. I worked at Microsoft at the same time I was doing XBOX development and nobody said anything. I actually was offered help from XBOX developers because THEY were using XBMC.

Clearly the vendor most amenable to homebrew development is Microsoft, they now have a downloadable "Community Games" section on XBOX Live. Sony has also made strides in this area with the user-developed content in LittleBigPlanet. Nintendo doesn't even let you chat in online play (and has lousy online services in general) because they don't want people swearing at little kids in online play. I suspect this same concern will also kill "official" homebrew development.

I'm not a real big fan of the "Community Games" on the 360, but I'm not a fan of Arcade either.

parent speaks the truth (1)

Ionized (170001) | more than 5 years ago | (#26331107)

dunno what asshat modded parent as troll, but the XBOX really is a true gem. there are numerous mature emulators available for the XBOX, and XBMC has a nice loader to access them all handily.

We cancelled our cable service recently, now we just use XBMC to watch tv shows and movies we download off the internet.

The interface is clean and intelligent, and it automagically downloads album covers, DVD covers & movie info from imdb, uses the milkdrop winamp plugin for visualization, and cooks you breakfast in bed. I can't recommend it enough.

Re:parent speaks the truth (1)

rtechie (244489) | more than 5 years ago | (#26408325)

Thanks. Whatever you think about Microsoft it doesn't detract from the utility of the original XBOX as a media center and game emulation box.

Especially XBMC was a REVOLUTION when it came out. To this day, it stomps all over everything in erms of codec support.

So what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26323109)

There are countless emulators for other consoles and computers for the Wii, is Slashdot really so hard up for articles that some random emulator port gets front-page space?

Castle Wolfenstien (1)

kildurin (938538) | more than 5 years ago | (#26323181)

Oh man, can I run the original Apple II version of Castle Wolfenstien?

Oregon Trail on the big screen! (1)

clint999 (1277046) | more than 5 years ago | (#26325309)

Looks like the article has just been demoted to "Games". Seriously though, this is just the most recent in a long line of emulator ports to the Wii. The chaps banging Linux onto the Wii are doing a lot more interesting work.

I loved my apple IIe back in the day. (1)

j741 (788258) | more than 5 years ago | (#26325587)

The Apple IIe was my first real computer, and one on which I first learned to program in basic and turtle (anyone remember that one). And the games were fun back then too; I clearly remember playing 'Goonies' and 'Conan' on that system. Then Apple abandoned that system for the MAC which could not run any software from the Apple II series and I quickly became a PC enthusiast due to being pissed off by Apple. Shortly after that I used the OS/2 operating system to run my BBS and my Windows software at the same time. Ahh the memories :)

Re:I loved my apple IIe back in the day. (1)

BigGar' (411008) | more than 5 years ago | (#26334557)

I think the "turtle" you are referring to is the LOGO programming language.
One of the things you can do with it is move a cursor around the screen to draw pictures, etc.
The cursor was called a turtle and may have looked like a turtle or perhaps a triangle.

The Turtle is a way to draw vector based images and was added to LOGO by its original inventor Seymour Papert, of MIT, so he could control his Turtle Robot to draw pictures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logo_(programming_language) [wikipedia.org]

Re:I loved my apple IIe back in the day. (1)

j741 (788258) | more than 5 years ago | (#26337869)

I think the "turtle" you are referring to is the LOGO programming language...

Yes, that's the one. It's been so long since I last used it that it's hard to remember.

Does it have the Z80 emulator in it too? :-) (1)

Zarf_is_with_you (1382411) | more than 5 years ago | (#26329819)

Where is the Floppy drive emulator so I can load my CP/M Disc's?

Re:Does it have the Z80 emulator in it too? :-) (1)

Zarf_is_with_you (1382411) | more than 5 years ago | (#26331725)

I am pretty sure I still have some ZORK disks around somewhere, I wonder if they are still readable!
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