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Fallout 3 DLC Detailed

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the ninjas-out-of-nowhere dept.

Games 137

Eurogamer spoke with Bethesda's Jeff Gardiner about the upcoming downloadable content for Fallout 3. The new gameplay will be bundled into three different segments, the first of which is due this month. The last segment will raise the game's level cap to 30. Gardiner had this to say about how the Strike Teams would work: "The player will be able to choose, from a limited resource pool, what type of team members will accompany him or her on several missions within the simulations. These choices include different troop types like snipers or heavy weapons troops. They'll also be able to make tactical decisions on how to deploy these troops in certain situations. The Chinese Stealth Suit was what I was hinting at last week — it works similar to stealth boy every time you crouch!"

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Paranoia (4, Insightful)

Thanshin (1188877) | more than 5 years ago | (#26383803)

I know it's possibly paranoia but the concept of downloadable content still makes me think they're actively removing things from the original game to release them later as downloadable content.

It's like releasing the Fantastic 3 and then include the invisible girl as downloadable content.

Re:Paranoia (2, Insightful)

im_thatoneguy (819432) | more than 5 years ago | (#26383825)

I can't possibly see how they can be accused of releasing a game with more than 100 hours of gameplay that was "holding back" anything. :D

I am still finishing quests and still having fun months later--about 60hours into the game.

I got my money's worth. I really really doubt they would risk bad reviews and poor sales in exchange for a few extra bucks later.

Re:Paranoia (1)

DreamsAreOkToo (1414963) | more than 5 years ago | (#26383851)

I would be more inclined to agree with you... except that every other Bethseda game had no level cap. Suddenly, we have a level 20 cap that you reach after 10 hours of gameplay (if you were foolish enough to take the XP perks, than even sooner.) Now the "expansion" raises the cap 10 levels a la MMO?

It's the biggest joke I've seen in a game. They didn't *remove* any code from the game, they actually *added* code TO the game, so that you couldn't level any higher.

Not to mention, people have firmly said *NO* to Bethseda DLC before.

Re:Paranoia (4, Insightful)

j85ason (1183933) | more than 5 years ago | (#26385151)

Not to mention, people have firmly said *NO* to Bethseda DLC before.

Horse Armor != Knights of the Nine.

Re:Paranoia (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26385567)

Fallout games have always had a 20-level cap. This is the 3rd fallout game in the series. You'd expect its game mechanics to follow the other two, even if it is in 3d and not 2d isometric.

Re:Paranoia (1)

daveatneowindotnet (1309197) | more than 5 years ago | (#26386999)

Fallout games have always had a 20-level cap. This is the 3rd fallout game in the series. You'd expect its game mechanics to follow the other two, even if it is in 3d and not 2d isometric.

I would expect it to follow the previous game mechanics. Unfortunately the other games do not all cap at twenty. I remember clearly going well past 20 in FO2 after discovering the in game strategy guide.

Re:Paranoia (2, Informative)

Koivuniemi (1384543) | more than 5 years ago | (#26388711)

Fallout games have always had a 20-level cap. This is the 3rd fallout game in the series. You'd expect its game mechanics to follow the other two, even if it is in 3d and not 2d isometric.

Wrong! None of the older Fallout games had a level cap. In Fallout the last new perks came available at level 18 and in Fallout 2 & Tactics last perks were at level 24. Of course you would run out of meaningful quests at around this time, but there was nothing stopping you from gaining experience or levels in random encounters or by slaughtering the whole ingame populace.

Re:Paranoia (2, Informative)

gEvil (beta) (945888) | more than 5 years ago | (#26385613)

Suddenly, we have a level 20 cap that you reach after 10 hours of gameplay (if you were foolish enough to take the XP perks, than even sooner.)

I just completed the game last weekend. About 34 hours of gameplay according to the save file. I only made it up to level 18. I'm curious to know specifically what you did to get to level 20 so quickly. I realize you get way more XP for different choices, but 10 hours seems like a bit of a stretch.

Re:Paranoia (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26385811)

Did you play on easy? You get more xp on harder modes.

Re:Paranoia (1)

SDF-7 (556604) | more than 5 years ago | (#26386223)

I don't remember exactly when I hit it -- but it was about 1/5th of the way through sidequests [I stopped worrying about the Main quest after finding out where Dad when post-Megaton]. Pretty easy to do if you:

+ Explore the map / try to do all sidequests
+ Pick every lock you can (even allowing for my Good character not stealing very often from towns), hack every terminal. [Note: usually you can do both if there's a terminal for a safe... just hack the terminal and don't unlock the safe, then pick the safe].

This was playing on "Normal".

Part of me wonders if they did some of this to encourage a replay run -- once you get into the game (or through it), you realize that setting any stat (or raising a skill) to the max before you find a Bobblehead is a waste, how common armor is that gives you +1 to Perception, etc... leaving you more options to direct points more effectively. In the level case -- the "more XP" perks seem a total waste, etc.

Re:Paranoia (3, Insightful)

discord5 (798235) | more than 5 years ago | (#26386915)

I'm curious to know specifically what you did to get to level 20 so quickly.

I got to level 20 in about 15 hours of gameplay. All I did was exploring and killing things... Lots of killing. The game hands you XP for practically anything. Discover a location? Pick a lock? Disarm a mine?

The level cap was a bit silly in my opinion, but the truth is that once you're 20 there's practically nothing in the game that can stop you anymore. With the right choice of perks and skills the game becomes either a sneak-and-snipe splatterfest, or you can start going one on one with supermutants in unarmed combat.

This game had both the most awesome and disappointing ending ever though. Having a giant robot wreak havoc through a destroyed Washington DC while firing lasers and shouting "Accept democracy or be eradicated!" has to be one of the better moments of the past 2 years in gaming. Not being able to continue playing after finishing the main quest was kind of weak though.

Re:Paranoia (1)

ADRA (37398) | more than 5 years ago | (#26389509)

I doubt they actually did what they claimed. I went through the game a second time and capped out faster, but it still took no sooner than 20 hours to get it. Even with the XP perks, you're only levelling up at max 50% faster than you were normally.

Mind you, I was actually playing the game and not just level grinding (Is it even possible to grind in this game?).

Re:Paranoia (2, Informative)

ink (4325) | more than 5 years ago | (#26387191)

Just raise the character level using the command interface:

setgs iMaxCharacterLevel 50

Re:Paranoia (1)

PotatoFarmer (1250696) | more than 5 years ago | (#26389345)

Be careful with that - if you've capped all your skills, once you gain a level you won't be able to get past the skill point distribution screen.

Re:Paranoia (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26384083)

No no, you're right... the lack of an actual writing team hasn't held back anything... Nor has their refusal to update the engine and fix bugs that are still prevalent in oblivion. And the reusing of art content? Nope, hasn't held anything back there either.

The funny thing is (4, Informative)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 5 years ago | (#26383859)

The funny thing is that some of that has been done already by the modders. There is a suit which makes you slightly harder to see when crouched. There is one which gives you 25% chameleon _all_ the time.

Heck, transplanting the Stealth Boy enchantment to a suit of your choosing is such a trivial affair, I had made my very own long before the GECK was released. The FOMM/TESnip already had all you need for that. Turns out someone else already had made the 25% one, so mine was never released, though.

Raising the level to 30? That is one global variable. That was one of the first mods released.

So I'm not really thinking they intentionally cut anything out, because most of it is _trivial_ stuff. Well, there'll be new maps and stuff so obviously it's more than just the items, but the "Ivisible Girl" in your example just made no sense to remove from release because it doesn't save anything at all.

Re:The funny thing is (1)

ikono (1180291) | more than 5 years ago | (#26388153)

well, to be honest, the level cap being raised has not necessarily been done; The game scripting only recognizes the first 20 levels and there are bugs after level 20. Of course, it might've been fixed by the modders with the release of the construction kit, but I never checked into all of that.

Not Paranoid At All (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26384015)

It's obvious they were faced with a dillema, fit the basic game + insane number of bugs + extra features all on to the game disc.

Option 1 would have been to ship a bugfree and complete game and then try to charge people later for the usual mass of bugs their games are riddled with.

Option 2 is the obvious choice. Include the stripped down game and the mass of bugs on the initial version. Milk the suckers out of extra cash for access to the complete game with DLC.

Re:Paranoia (1)

fastest fascist (1086001) | more than 5 years ago | (#26384299)

I don't know, to me it seems FO3 had too much of certain types of content to begin with. Namely, at level 20 you are a god capable of single-handedly killing just about any kind of enemy force you might encounter, and when you have friends with you... Hopefully the combat in the simulation battle will be much more challenging than it was in vanilla Fallout 3, otherwise I don't see the point in having a system for group tactics.

Re:Paranoia (1)

mahdi13 (660205) | more than 5 years ago | (#26388717)

Try some of the mods that change the armor/hp/damage ratings to be closer to how they were in F1 and F2...I have a level 20 character that gets ripped apart in less then 2 seconds from a single turret.
If you're looking for more of a challenge find those mods. If you're on PS3 or XBOX, stop complaining and accept that you have already given into corporate conformity =)

Re:Paranoia (2, Interesting)

Xugumad (39311) | more than 5 years ago | (#26384369)

I think you have to take each game on its own merit. I think DLC is frequently content that hit the cutting room floor to make it to launch, yes, but I don't think we're exactly being short-changed on Fallout 3. There's always going to be content like that (Deus Ex 1 lacked a bunch of content, including a moon base level, apparently).

For a game like say Spore, I think there's a lot more evidence that it was chopped up to sell more expansions. As people have pointed out, there were stages with more content shown at a variety of gaming conventions.

Re:Paranoia (3, Funny)

Chris Mattern (191822) | more than 5 years ago | (#26385383)

t's like releasing the Fantastic 3 and then include the invisible girl as downloadable content.

"But how do I *know* the Invisible Girl's been installed?"

"Take our word for it. $10, please."

Re:Paranoia (1)

Trent Hawkins (1093109) | more than 5 years ago | (#26385957)

Well, the DLC is just about entirely outside of the main game's environment. It's not stuff that could take place in the capitol ruins and doesn't use the same main character.
Also, the level cap would be pointless to lift in the main campaign. It's already easy, going above level 20 is just over kill.

Re:Paranoia (1)

Clock Nova (549733) | more than 5 years ago | (#26387275)

It wouldn't be so much overkill if they dropped the perks to every other level, or every 3 or 4 levels, as in the original. The perks are WAY too plentiful in F3.

Re:Paranoia (1)

bigmaddog (184845) | more than 5 years ago | (#26386659)

While I'm generally a paranoid person myself, I feel it is ludicrous to accuse Bethesda of leaving things out to use as expansions later, even hypothetically; that game is freaking huge. Love the game or hate it, you'll be hard pressed to find anything else these days that gives you so much to see and do, so many people to eat^H^H^Hinteract with.

My request... (4, Insightful)

meringuoid (568297) | more than 5 years ago | (#26383819)

... can we have an expansion in which characters who are entirely immune to radiation are in fact willing to walk into irradiated rooms in order to press four buttons and then leave? As opposed to, you know, just standing there and watching while someone else does the job and dies horribly?

Thanks!

Re:My request... (1)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 5 years ago | (#26383853)

Ha, you actually bothered to free that retard?

Sucker.

Re:My request... (1)

im_thatoneguy (819432) | more than 5 years ago | (#26383863)

*SPOILERS*

/ * SPOILER WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP */ Did you not make friends with Fawkes? He was more than willing to venture into a lethally irradiated area for me.

You haven't played until the end, eh? (3, Interesting)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 5 years ago | (#26383899)

So you haven't bothered playing the ending, then?

*SPOILERS INCOMING*

Because, yes, that's what makes him stand out like a sore thumb. He already showed you that he's immune to radiation, and ventured for you in that room in the bunker. But at the Project Purity end scene there is _no_ option to send _him_ into the irradiated room to press the four buttons to activate the installation. You get to choose whether you die or the paladin dies, but there is no freaking option to go, "Hey, Fawkes, you're immune to radiation, right? Can you go in there and press these four numbers for me, please?"

Now I understand the climactic choice and all, but the very presence of Fawkes there spoils it in a major way. Suddenly that choice and sacrifice makes no bloody sense. It's like deciding whether me or you rush some evil guys and take a bullet, while having Superman standing around obliviously watching the whole debate. It makes no sense.

Re:You haven't played until the end, eh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26383979)

What's worse is that if you do talk to him after making the decision, he'll look you straight in the eye and tell you that it's your duty to fulfill. And I thought Fawkes was my friend.

Re:You haven't played until the end, eh? (5, Funny)

Canazza (1428553) | more than 5 years ago | (#26384367)

Ofcourse not, he's a super mutant, his fingers would just mash the keyboard and there's no time to send away for a dialing wand...

Re:You haven't played until the end, eh? (1)

Thansal (999464) | more than 5 years ago | (#26386687)

I am SURE I have some random piece of junk in my back pocket that I can give him to use as a friken stylus!

I'm sorry, I don't want to rob you of your destiny...

I realyl should have killed him before going in my self...

Re:You haven't played until the end, eh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26388321)

Why oh why didn't I invent the finglonger

Re:You haven't played until the end, eh? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26384563)

Actually, you do have the option of asking him. He'll decline though, stating that this is not his task to do, not wanting to take the credit for it, or something. I'm guessing that this is a partly a cop-out for the developers but also an attempt to make the moment seem more epic (which really didn't happen).

Re:You haven't played until the end, eh? (1)

Devalia (581422) | more than 5 years ago | (#26384603)

You can talk to him and ask him (after agreeing to go in instead) but he gives some rubbish about it being your destiny..

Re:You haven't played until the end, eh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26385143)

** SPOILER ***
Ummm actually you can ask Fawkes to go into the chamber for you - but he refuses on the basis that its not his destiny. So he lets you or the paladin get it in the neck. What a git.

Re:You haven't played until the end, eh? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#26385241)

The sad thing is that this is a huge step backwards for the saga. In Fallout 2, they're at least smart enough not to give you the radiation-warped mutant until after he would have come in handy.

Re:You haven't played until the end, eh? (1)

discord5 (798235) | more than 5 years ago | (#26386979)

In Fallout 2, they're at least smart enough not to give you the radiation-warped mutant until after he would have come in handy.

Problem is that there is no after this scene. To quote from Aliens : "Game over man... Game over".

Re:You haven't played until the end, eh? (1)

Seakip18 (1106315) | more than 5 years ago | (#26385889)

Seriously. What's even worse is with the amount of rad-x, rad-away, natural rad resistance + environment suit, the amount of radiation I got in there was small. I actually went ahead and got the GECK since Fawkes was so slow. Used 3 rad-aways I think.

Anyways, yes. Fawkes makes the ending really nutty. Thankfully, I think the Mod community will fix this, and, in the end, deliver us even more wonderful product. Probably even better than the DLC we'd pay for. It is interesting to see how they are taking something like Fallout and doing something like a squad-tatics based game. SHOCK I TELL YOU!

Re:You haven't played until the end, eh? (2, Funny)

meringuoid (568297) | more than 5 years ago | (#26386081)

It is interesting to see how they are taking something like Fallout and doing something like a squad-tatics based game.

What a shocking notion... [wikipedia.org]

Re:You haven't played until the end, eh? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26388849)

WHOOSH!!!

Re:You haven't played until the end, eh? (1)

Remus Shepherd (32833) | more than 5 years ago | (#26386425)

You're missing the important fact that Fawkes is/was a 'she'. (True! Check the computer terminals in Vault 87.) Which means that she was just being a woman and letting the man (you) do the dirty work.

(To any women here: I kid, I kid. ;) )

Still makes no sense, sorry (1)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 5 years ago | (#26387017)

Even if Fawkes is a she,

1. Then what's her excuse when the player character is a woman too, not to mention that the paladin is a woman too? That she's just a bitch and wants to see one of the other two women die horribly? That fits soo good with the whole Fawkes the righteous good supermutant act. Not.

2. _If_ they wanted to do it gender-based, then how about letting me use the Lady Killer perk there? I mean, wtf, there's this perk which mysteriously makes women do my bidding in game, despite of the fact that it only produces the most horrible pick-up lines in recorded history. (I mean, for example, there's this perfectly stranger grandma, and I suddenly get the option to spew something that would fit at most if we were already past "third base", and mysteriously she gives me ammo for it instead of a slap.) Why not give me an option to use it on Fawkes then?

Re:My request... (1)

Khamura (664892) | more than 5 years ago | (#26383867)

That's going to happen with the third DLC (Broken Steel, the one that also raises the cap), as far as I have been able to find out.

Re:My request... (1)

duffel (779835) | more than 5 years ago | (#26384259)

IIRC, there was so much radiation in that chamber to *melt* the person in there, so I doubt even Fawkes would have survived. In this case it's less about physiological hardiness as it is about molecular cohesion.

Re:My request... (2, Informative)

Ambiguous Coward (205751) | more than 5 years ago | (#26386789)

Fuck that, I was so doped up on rad-x and my tesla armor was blocking it...I stood around for about five minutes inside the chamber, popping rad-away once in a while. Finally I decide to punch in the numbers, and THEN I die.

I tried it again and did it fast, and amazingly, as soon as I hit that last button, boom, I die.

Seriously, I could have gone in, hit the numbers, had a nice little picnic lunch, and then wandered out at my leisure, but no, as always, the scripted death. Lame.

Re:My request... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26387883)

I thought punching in the numbers triggered a massive amount of radiation.

Re:My request... (1)

chonglibloodsport (1270740) | more than 5 years ago | (#26386943)

If there was enough radiation in that chamber to melt a person, what on earth was the glass surrounding it made out of? It couldn't have been more than a few inches thick.

Re:My request... (1)

Aladrin (926209) | more than 5 years ago | (#26384427)

I don't think Fawkes was immune. I think he was just very hardened against it.

Charon, however, is definitely immune as ghouls are healed by radiation.

But your point is well taken... They just wanted the character to die for no reason. I'm sure I could have run in, hit the buttons and run out before the radiation got to me... especially with all the gear and medicine I was carrying for radiation.

Re:My request... (1)

VorpalRodent (964940) | more than 5 years ago | (#26388151)

The problem is the fact that when in Vault 87, Fawkes goes and gets the GECK for you. The radiation present in those tunnels is significantly higher than that present in the rotunda (and outside the Vault 87 entrance kills nearly instantly). It's simply irritating to know that they make up a story about how it'll kill whomever enters, except that it doesn't. To have someone on hand who has already been exposed to quantitatively far worse and survived simply adds insult to injury...and then you die at the scripted moment. If I had to die, at least kill me reasonably. The computer is damaged, and we know that activating the equipment is going to necessarily cause a massive explosion in the room...or something (at least something that Fawkes is going to rationally want to avoid).

Why wait till last to raise the level cap? (1)

Chmcginn (201645) | more than 5 years ago | (#26383823)

Why would they wait until the last expansion to raise the level cap? While I liked Fallout 3, the fact that I hadn't even started the final mission before I hit the cap was kind of irritating.

Re:Why wait till last to raise the level cap? (1)

MrZaius (321037) | more than 5 years ago | (#26384415)

I still say [mrzaius.com] they shouldn't raise the level cap. The game is pretty off-balance at the current one, and I hit it with a third of the map unexplored and four-six more hours left in the primary quest. I wish they'd just drop the level of experience gained, across the board.

The quest rewards were excessive (1)

Chmcginn (201645) | more than 5 years ago | (#26384631)

I wish they'd just drop the level of experience gained, across the board.

The enemy rewards, especially on the high end, were okay, if even a little small. But the quest rewards were huge - often bigger than what you would get for all the enemies you'd face completing that quest.

Re:The quest rewards were excessive (2, Insightful)

SuiteSisterMary (123932) | more than 5 years ago | (#26384899)

This is as it should be; Fallout isn't a combat RPG, so there shouldn't be huge XP gains for killing things. Your stealthy guy or social guy or techie guy or whatever should have a reasonable chance of making it through too.

Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines, I'm looking at you. Getting through to the last part of the game is NO problem with a stealth or a social guy. The last part, however, is a giant combat gauntlet.

Re:The quest rewards were excessive (1)

MartinSchou (1360093) | more than 5 years ago | (#26388309)

I'm not entirely sure if we're thinking of the same game, but I found the funniest way to get through the game was to up my ... uhm ... the stat that affects bartering. When it got above I think 95, you'd make money by buying something and selling it again.

The final battle I had lasted about 90 seconds with me just constantly firing rockets at the boss. He never even got close.

Re:Why wait till last to raise the level cap? (1)

meringuoid (568297) | more than 5 years ago | (#26385577)

While I liked Fallout 3, the fact that I hadn't even started the final mission before I hit the cap was kind of irritating.

'Grim Reaper's Sprint' is so awesomely broken. You want to have only one mission in which to play with it?

Personally, I kind of like having a fair amount of game still there in which to run around the wasteland with godlike abilities. It beats getting something awesome only after it would have been useful. I mean, I hit level 20 at about the time I got the GECK, and I haven't even found Tenpenny Tower. No, don't tell me where it is. Now I've finished the game I'm going back to a save game at around the 'free the Little Lamplight slaves' point, just before the plot goes into its final stage, and heading off to explore :-)

Petition for DLC for PS3 (1)

cyborch (524661) | more than 5 years ago | (#26383861)

If you (like me) bought the PS3 version of this game, then consider signing this petition [petitiononline.com] to adding DLC to the PS3 version as well.

I'm glad its not on PS3 ;) (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26384257)

When reading TFA I can't help thinking if this isn't simply M$ trying to (ab)use the Fallout3 environment (at least the game engine) for nothing more but the ride on another ones bandwagon. Now we're diving into political issues and fighting off communists instead of your common futuristic baddies and monsters? I mean, come on.. Sounds to me as if they're ditching the whole idea of gameplay, fully use the combat engine and trying to turn a very nice adventure into an ordinary shoot 'm up however RPG styled. I don't see a valuable addition to the Fallout3 game experience.

And another thing; I also think the announcement is a little off. It mentions the availability of downloadable contents. Technically speaking they're absolutely right, but it could make people assume that we're talking about a freely available game extension, but we're not. Personally I'd describe it as "purchasable contents which can be downloaded" instead.

Re:Petition for DLC for PS3 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26388825)

Or do what I did. I just rented the game. Surely $60 is more powerful than any peteition with 10k signatures.

This Used To Be Such An Amazing Franchise (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26383887)

It is so sad to see this franchise sold off to such a mediocre developer as Bethesda.

They basically just took the Fallout world and slapped it on top of their existing Morrowind/Oblivion engine and, as usual, didn't bother doing any testing or bugfixing before sending the game out the door.

It would normally be just funny to laugh at another Bethesda game riddle with bugs and performance and gameplay problems needing massive patching to make the game even playable, but not this time.

Re:This Used To Be Such An Amazing Franchise (1)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 5 years ago | (#26384043)

Do you ever wonder why your opinion is different to everyone else's? I mean, sure, some people think Fallout 3 sucked, but shit, even Yahtzee [escapistmagazine.com] thinks it is awesome, and he's paid not to like anything. That's a piss funny video BTW. Feel free to go watch it and come back saying it wasn't funny.

Re:This Used To Be Such An Amazing Franchise (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26384117)

This honestly isn't an opinion from an AC... It's actual fact. Fallout 3 uses the same engine as Oblivion, complete with the same bugs they never bothered to fix, and with some of the very same art assets.

Why should anyone be happy about that? If you're reusing an engine, you have extra money to throw around to get some actual fixing in it done.

Re:This Used To Be Such An Amazing Franchise (2, Interesting)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 5 years ago | (#26384159)

Name the bugs then. I've played hundreds of hours of this game and experienced no crashes. That's more than I can say for any other game I've played lately (except maybe Eve Online, that's probably the most rock solid "game" I've ever played). There's absolutely nothing wrong with using the same engine.. I think more companies should do it. The Oblivion engine is so good that I hope they make a dozen more games using it.

Did you watch the video? It really is funny, honest.

Microsoft,Bethesda Destroying Console Gaming (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26384203)

My god are you a fucking moron.

It's idiots like you that make it possible for shitty developers like Bethesda to pump out garbage like Fallout 3. The bugs, glitches, problems in Fallout 3 are insane even by the incredibly poor standard of previous Bethesda turds. You don't know if you should laugh or cry reading through forum posts from people complaining about the insane number of bugs in the game.

Shitty companies like Microsoft and their piece of shit RRoD box and Bethesda's braindead bugfest games are turning the console world to crap.

Re:Microsoft,Bethesda Destroying Console Gaming (1)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 5 years ago | (#26384239)

reading through forum posts from people complaining about the insane number of bugs in the game.

Ya know, on the Internet, we have this think call a "hyperlink" that you can use to show someone what you're talking about.

Really, I have no problems with this game. I can't help it. Am I just lucky? Do I just happen to play the game the same way the play testers did?

are turning the console world to crap.

That might be relevant.. I'm playing on a PC.

Re:Microsoft,Bethesda Destroying Console Gaming (1)

thepotoo (829391) | more than 5 years ago | (#26385231)

I love Fallout 3 and have never encountered a gameplay-breaking bug (with the exception of vampires in a sci-fi game...not sure how that slipped through testing). 3 crashes (quit to desktop) in more than a hundred hours of gameplay so far is more than acceptable to me.

But some people have definitely found bugs. Perhaps an unofficial patch ala Oblivion or Vampire Bloodlines will fix these.

Here's your "hyperlink". [wikia.com]

Re:Microsoft,Bethesda Destroying Console Gaming (1)

mahdi13 (660205) | more than 5 years ago | (#26389151)

To be fair they weren't real vampires, just glorified cannibals.
I've had a few crashes and one time in the Enclave base I got stuck under the floor railing and wasn't able to get to the stairs. Only happened once though and wasn't repeatable.
I think most of these 'its buggy' people just nitpick over everything for the sake of nitpicking over everything. I've seen graphic glitches, animation glitches, pathing issues and lots of havoc quirks but nothing that would send me on a quest to belittle the game claiming it to be a POS engine.

Re:Microsoft,Bethesda Destroying Console Gaming (1)

gullevek (174152) | more than 5 years ago | (#26384439)

And what bugs. What problems. What glitches. Show me, show us. Because I haven't hat a single problem yet ...

Re:Microsoft,Bethesda Destroying Console Gaming (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26385293)

Same here, only been playing 30 hours now, but not one crash has happened. Best 30 quid I have spent in about the last 3 years. I ripped it off at first, felt so guilty after I played it for 2 hours, I went straight out and bought the damn thing! Rock solid, to quote Thurgood Stubbs, "Shut up you damn stoopid troll!"

Re:Microsoft,Bethesda Destroying Console Gaming (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26389673)

When I first got the game it would crash once every 2 hours. I applied the patch and it crashed every 1. I attempted every fix under the sun and tech support was decidedly unhelpful. I got a refund and then pirated the game and reinstalled on a clean system.

It still crashes every 2 hours. At least I don't have to pay for support that doesn't want to do it's job.

Re:Microsoft,Bethesda Destroying Console Gaming (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26385479)

Well, On the PC version I had to use the console to get Moriarity to show up at the bar. Apparently he had walked off the map somehow because I didn't go to megaton immediately, google it. It's a real bug. Also, towards the end of the game when you're going to the Citadel the doctor (forgot the name) decides she wants to stay in the sewers and the only way to fix it is to put on noclip and walk back to get someone who
forgot to follow you.
  Don't get me wrong, it's a great game, and I am still enjoying it, but don't tell me there are no bugs. And yes, Bethesda sadly does have a reputation for doing stuff like this.

Re:Microsoft,Bethesda Destroying Console Gaming (1)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 5 years ago | (#26385591)

The PS3 version is a buggy mess. Maybe the PC or 360 are better.

  • General hangs (sometimes rendering the PS3 entirely unresponsive)
  • Not exiting target mode after the round finishes, while enemies continue to attack you
  • slowdown/hang/inability to select body parts in target mode
  • getting stuck in rocky areas/rubble (jumping/climbing sucks)
  • I've found at least one solid building wall that I could walk through (there was no building interior)
  • The scene where you follow Liberty Prime locked up on me halfway through, repeatedly.

I love the game, but most of the time I quit is because my PS3 is hung.

Re:Microsoft,Bethesda Destroying Console Gaming (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26386977)

Then get the patch and try it again.

Bought This Turd Instead Of Valkyria Chronicles?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26387295)

I can understand if you were stuck with a 360, but with the amazing Valkyria Chronicles out for the PS3 you made a poor choice.

Anyone could have told you Fallout 3 was going to be a buggy and mind numbingly braindead mess just like their previous titles.

Re:Microsoft,Bethesda Destroying Console Gaming (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26385793)

Try playing as a female. Your dad still says you look like him. SEVERAL dialogs from characters do not distinguish between genders. A lot assume you are male.

My roommate and I both experience constant crashes. I have an older AMD processor. He has a tri-core AMD processor. He has ATI gfx card, I have an nVidia. Chipsets are wildly different. He crashes me than I do. We're both using the latest patch... which is supposed to address the crashes.

The mouse "lag" is terrible. Don't tell me you don't experience it. Even my room mate does on his much superior system. Even on the lowest settings possible, I get a ton of mouse lag.

Those are just the bugs I can think of off the top of my head. I've put in several hours and I got bored really fast... There isn't the freedom of the other games, just the illusion of it. I didn't even beat it, but I came damn close... just got way too bored, especially with those bugs. I consider those bugs game breaking, so even if I didn't get bored, I'd still get tired of the constant crashes and the mouse lag.

Re:Microsoft,Bethesda Destroying Console Gaming (1)

Creepy (93888) | more than 5 years ago | (#26389201)

There's a list of known bugs here:

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_3_Bugs [wikia.com]

Slowdowns can sometimes be fixed by cleaning the cache or even defragging your disk. More memory helps, as well, as does lower graphics settings. Personally, I've only seen a couple of crashes, both during long sessions and because the game ran out of addressable memory (pretty much screaming "I leak like a sieve!"). If you have lots of RAM, you'll probably never see a leak related crash, however (I have 2GB).

Re:This Used To Be Such An Amazing Franchise (1)

FlyveHest (105693) | more than 5 years ago | (#26384579)

Name the bugs then. I've played hundreds of hours of this game and experienced no crashes.

While I haven't had any really showstopping bugs, the game has crashed on me 4-5 times in my 70 hours of playtime.

Nothing critical though, just close it down and restart, and you're good to go.

Re:This Used To Be Such An Amazing Franchise (1)

$1uck (710826) | more than 5 years ago | (#26384793)

Its caused my Xbox 360 to lock up, requiring me to turn it off. Its very repeatable every time I try to load that saved game it locks up. I think that is a pretty severe bug. Supposedly there is a work around involving resetting sytem memory. Although this means re-downloading patches for all other games (I think): Go to the Xbox Dashboard, select the System Blade, and select Memory. -Highlight the HD symbol and press Y. - Press X, X, Left Bumper, Right Bumper, X, X.

Re:This Used To Be Such An Amazing Franchise (1)

ShadowRangerRIT (1301549) | more than 5 years ago | (#26384937)

One I've experienced: NPCs wandering off into the ether or just dying due to a pathfinding glitch. The character Walter (Megaton Water Purification guy) for instance is known to either wander off through a clipping error, or to kill himself by falling off the *top* of Lucas Simms's house. I've personally experienced him disappearing (if I teleported to him with the console, he'd obviously wandered through a clipping error and couldn't get back), and I brought him back through a cheat using the in game console, but it's a really shitty thing to run into in the Xbox/PS3 version, where it can kill off whole plotlines with no recourse. Apparently this is a common error for Walter, along with a number of much more plot critical characters in Megaton (Megaton is particularly bad, due to the level variations; the bad path finding means the characters often kill themselves wandering off a cliff).

I've also had a single crash, but considering how unstable most games are, I'm not complaining too much about that.

Re:This Used To Be Such An Amazing Franchise (1)

Beyond_GoodandEvil (769135) | more than 5 years ago | (#26385099)

Don't forget the regulator leader(Sonora Cruz) who will spaz out if there are enemies outside the Regulator HQ and run off never to be found. Oh and the enemies spawning appears to be random, the fix for this is just use the console and resurrect and bring to player(Xbox and PS3 are probably out of luck). The other glitch is if you kill unnammed Brotherhood outcasts you get a finger(indicating bad people), but kill the named outcasts and you lose karma, wtf?

Re:This Used To Be Such An Amazing Franchise (1)

BenevolentP (1220914) | more than 5 years ago | (#26387749)

I've actually found this bug quite charming.

I just thought "Man, radiation really fried peoples brains here. Maybe living in a bomb crater isn't such a good idea after all".

Other than that, it crashed only one time (xbox version) in about 120 hours playtime total.

Re:This Used To Be Such An Amazing Franchise (1)

ShadowRangerRIT (1301549) | more than 5 years ago | (#26389819)

I believe that is another source of problems. Sometimes NPCs' pathfinding goes awry and they end up sitting in the radiated water surrounding the bomb until they die of rad poisoning. Really sad.

Re:This Used To Be Such An Amazing Franchise (1)

powerlord (28156) | more than 5 years ago | (#26388271)

Ah. Thanks, I wondered where Walter went. I've been playing on the PS3 since it came out, and have been enjoying being relatively "spoiler free" by not visiting any sites.

Outside of Walter disappearing, I haven't seen any other glitches (that I'm aware of :) ).

Guess I'm glad that I already finished his quest, but its too bad, I was saving up scrap metal hoping for his return. :/

Re:This Used To Be Such An Amazing Franchise (1)

spyrochaete (707033) | more than 5 years ago | (#26385093)

I bought this game during my vacation when I had loads of spare time, but only played for 4 hours and haven't touched it in a week. The game's crashed on me at least 5 times, though thankfully, like Oblivion, it saves every time you walk through a door and zone into a new area.

I quit after getting baffled by the teammate system. I befriended Dogmeat and he was a real asskicker, but then I fast travelled somewhere and never saw him again. 2 hours later, out of the blue, I got a message that said "Dogmeat has died". Alt-F4, never came back.

The lack of polish overall is what's deterring me. For example, in the beginning at your birthday party all the idiotic NPCs talk over eachother and interrupt what they are saying. Also, as I run through the wastelands I agro random enemies from 100 paces so that I always have 2 dogs, a mercenary, and a super mutant chasing me side by side, ignoring eachother. I'm also disappointed by the performance drops during combat on my relatively beefy PC - I get better framerate in Crysis fighting 14 guys in the dense jungle than I get in Fallout fighting 2 guys in the desert.

Personally, I'm totally sick of the Oblivion engine. The only thing that made Oblivion playable on PC was a multitude of fixes from the mod community, and there seems to be no such community for Fallout. At least Bethesda was more careful in designing the UI for high res PC monitors this time, but they've still released an unpolished and buggy product as they've done every time since Morrowind. Still, next to GTA4, it's the lesser of 2 evils so that's why it got my bucks.

Re:This Used To Be Such An Amazing Franchise (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26385781)

Check out www.fallout3nexus.com. Believe me, there is a *very* healthy mod community for Fallout 3. There are people who are already starting mods that have maps completely outside of the existing FO3 map as well to extend it.

Re:This Used To Be Such An Amazing Franchise (1)

sabre3999 (1143017) | more than 5 years ago | (#26385435)

Look up it's problems with Vista. I was unfortunate to buy it the first day it was available, before I knew about that glaring bug. I finished FO3 and clocked about 100 hours... I loved it. But it was FAR from bug free. The game crashed on me every hour on the hour like clockwork. To my knowledge it wasn't fixed, though admittedly I haven't checked since I finished it.

Aside from instability related to running it in Vista, however, I had no other problems. And who the hell cares if it was built on the Oblivion engine? Sure, it's slap-you-in-the-face obvious, but the engine looks good and I think it did the original FO's justice nonetheless. People should just accept it for what it is - not perfect, but it's still far better than most of the common drivel.

Re:This Used To Be Such An Amazing Franchise (1)

gad_zuki! (70830) | more than 5 years ago | (#26386803)

NPCs are constantly walking off and killing themselves. There's at least one mission I cant finish because of a bug and another I had to do some weird work-around I found online to finish. There are occasional random crashes too.

Its not too bad, but releasing a patch to fix the six or seven bugged missions would have been nice, instead we're probably getting "horse armor" and "more fancy dresses" for your character.

Re:This Used To Be Such An Amazing Franchise (1)

Creepy (93888) | more than 5 years ago | (#26389023)

Actually, the engine is a mishmash of purchased products, most of which have fairly good reputations (Bink, SpeedTree, Gamebryo, etc, though admittedly, some features like SpeedTree are now included as part of Gamebryo). To me it always felt assembled from those pieces because they have a certain design that they never seem to let go of. There is no reason for load times from a graphics standpoint (Gamebryo supports asynchronous scene loading), for instance, but they still load scenes one at a time and run a state engine.

Funny that you mention Eve - I've noticed that MMORPGs in general tend to be the most stable games (probably because most are written from scratch - the exception I know of is Warhammer, which is Gamebryo).

My personal opinion of Fallout 3 is mixed - like all Bethesda games I've played, there is very little attachment between the main character and anyone else, but like any major action movie, the plot doesn't matter much, it's all about the eye candy (and Bethesda does that well). Silly things like 2 gang members shooting at me with pea shooters while I'm in brotherhood armor (no power armor yet) make me laugh - if I and my friend had cheap Chinese Pistols and a guy with a assault rifle and full ballistic battle armor approached me, I'd a) run b) hide c)be peaceable - I would NOT d) CHARGE!!! (Leeroy Jenkins!!!).

    It's also really too bad they didn't put any thought into alternatives in some cases - I mean, if I go to the super duper mart dressed as a gang member and they have dozens of members, how do they know I'm an enemy at long range? And really - if one or even two persons approached you without weapons drawn and you had a good 30 people at your back, would you suddenly open up on the approaching people, or would you find out what they wanted (and then kill them)? Bethesda seems to have this mentality that the only option is sneak or shoot. Fallout at least would let you approach. I would understand if I was wandering and got attacked from the hills, but not so much from some kind of civilization.

    Incidentally, I watched a movie on Max called Doomsday and had the same problems with it that I did with Fallout 3 - people are stupid in the movie (they behave about as stupid as zombies in zombie movies - kill someone, then just stand there cheering while they die in a hail of gunfire... ugh... ). There are so many points in that movie where I think "what would a real person do here" and the movie does just the opposite. That said, the movie itself isn't bad if you just say "it's a campy movie" get over it. The movie Independence Day had exactly the same issue (so unscientific you can't even call it science fiction, but it was an OK action movie with nice special effects).

DLC isn't just about content (2, Insightful)

N1AK (864906) | more than 5 years ago | (#26383989)

Fallout 3 is a very large game, I certainly don't feel like it wasn't well worth its price. I have no issue with paying a fair price for them to add more. But it isn't the value side that bothers me.

If I buy the DLC on my Xbox it is linked to my console. Not only does that make it impossible for me to sell, it also can be a real pain in the ass getting DLC stuff back if your console breaks or gets stolen. I know why the DLC model exists, I just wish us backwards types could get it on physical media.

Re:DLC isn't just about content (1)

SuiteSisterMary (123932) | more than 5 years ago | (#26384875)

it also can be a real pain in the ass getting DLC stuff back if your console breaks or gets stolen. I know why the DLC model exists, I just wish us backwards types could get it on physical media.

If I could post a picture of a dog cocking it's head in confuzzlement, I would.

Console broken? Mail it in, it gets repaired, your DLC is transferred. Done.

Don't want to mail it in? Buy a new one. Log in with your Xbox Live account. HoLY CRAP all your DLC works.

Don't want to need to log in? Use the handy dandy once-per-year arbitrary relicenser [xbox.com] to tranfer all the licenses to your new console.

Xbox stolen? A combination of changing your Xbox Live password and the above relicensing. Though I'm willing to bet that if you contact Live Support they'd help you out as well.

As a personal anecdote, I replaced my xbox about a year ago. I haven't even bothered relicensing; I turn on the Xbox, it logs into Live, and there's all my stuff. No fuss, no muss.

Re:DLC isn't just about content (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#26385275)

Stop using Xbox Live, but still want your DLC on a replacement console? You're fucked! Unless it's an original Xbox, and you have the hacked DLC installers, that is. Most of the DLC doesn't work off of Live anyway, at least on the classic Xbox. Wouldn't know about the 360, but for example the Crimson skies, Mechassault, and MA2 content is multiplayer-only.

Re:DLC isn't just about content (1)

Cathoderoytube (1088737) | more than 5 years ago | (#26385673)

Your downloads aren't linked to your console they're linked to your account. As in your account keeps a record of your purchases, so you can redownload all your purchases if you have to get another xbox. Or if you wanted to sell your xbox, all you'd need to do is wipe the hard drive and you're good to go.

Re:DLC isn't just about content (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26386925)

Actually, DLC is linked to both your account and your Xbox. This is why other users of your xbox can access your DLC even without you logging in, but you can't just share an account "for DLC downloading" among you and your closest 10 friends.

If it's linked to your account, and not the xbox, you need to log in to use it. This is the scenario you hit if you're out at a friend's place showing off Street Fighter HD or whatever.

How about a fix for... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26384379)

the bug that causes my xbox 360 to freeze completely, requiring me to turn it off and back on and then it still locks up when I try to restart. grr

Having repeatedly seen that... (1)

Chmcginn (201645) | more than 5 years ago | (#26384467)

It's not just the game. It happened about every two game hours on my original (first-run) 360. When the DVD drive finally died, I replaced it, and I haven't seen it happen once in the last 12 hours.

Re:Having repeatedly seen that... (1)

$1uck (710826) | more than 5 years ago | (#26388641)

It happens only when I am playing fallout and it happens every time I try to load the last saved game. It most certainly is not the dvd drive and is the game.

Re:How about a fix for... (1)

gullevek (174152) | more than 5 years ago | (#26384483)

I have played around 30hours and never had any kind of freeze on my xbox360

DLP TV? SegaScope 3d? (1, Offtopic)

falzbro (468756) | more than 5 years ago | (#26385267)

This is new? Many DLP TVs [dlp.com] support this [zdnet.com] even though not many probably care (I have one and I don't).

It took over 20 years to come out with what looks like the same technology as the Sega Master System's [wikipedia.org] 3D Glasses [gametrailers.com] ?

I also think I saw Captain EO [wikipedia.org] with the same glasses back when Michael Jackson was loved by most.

Re:DLP TV? SegaScope 3d? (1)

falzbro (468756) | more than 5 years ago | (#26385299)

Holy wrong thread, batman!

Re:DLP TV? SegaScope 3d? (1)

gEvil (beta) (945888) | more than 5 years ago | (#26385665)

At least you're insightfully offtopic.
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