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Gaza Debate Goes Virtual

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the fighting-with-tweets-and-mashups dept.

The Internet 644

Ian Lamont writes "The war of words over the conflict in Gaza has moved from the real world to the Internet. Besides a furious stream of mini-debates on Twitter between supporters of and critics of Israel's military actions, there have also been demonstrations in Second Life at an Israel-themed sim and a collection of Facebook applications, including 'QassamCount' and 'Stop Israel's war crimes in Gaza.' Another project — 'mapping the war in Gaza' — was launched by Al Jazeera and takes user-submitted reports, tweets, and Microsoft Virtual Earth to track the number of casualties and other developments." In addition to this, the series of website defacements we discussed a few days ago has now extended to sites controlled by NATO and the US Army.

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Second life sim (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26398875)

there have also been demonstrations in Second Life at an Israel-themed sim

...and it's only a matter of time until the virtual Islamic trolls fire virtual rockets and bomb their virtual busses while cowardly hiding amongst virtual women and children.

Re:Second life sim (4, Funny)

alcmaeon (684971) | more than 5 years ago | (#26398993)

yeah, and the virtual Jews can bewail their virtual victimhood while carpet bombing virtual UN safe houses and virtual civilian populations with virtual US supplied advanced weapons.

correction (5, Insightful)

alcmaeon (684971) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399025)

I should have said "virtual Zionists" instead of "virtual Jews" since a lot of Jews, including Israeli ones, have courageously condemned Israel's actions.

Israel, the Jewish state, wants to conflate itself with all Jews, and obfuscate the reality, but the fact is, it doesn't speak for all Jews anymore than Saudi Arabia speaks for all Muslims.

Re:correction (-1, Troll)

c6gunner (950153) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399263)

I should have said "virtual Zionists" instead of "virtual Jews" since a lot of Jews, including Israeli ones, have courageously condemned Israel's actions.

It's true - being Jewish doesn't seem to exempt them from also being morons. I'm not sure why you felt the need to point that out, though.

Re:correction (4, Informative)

h4rm0ny (722443) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399287)


Yep - you definitely should have, but you more than make up for it by attempting to counter the Israeli government's attempts to portray Jewish = Supporter of Israeli Government. To provide a little balance, there are some pretty nasty people who pretend that they represent the Arab people when they clearly are some its worst enemies (Egyptian rulership, I'm looking at you). Would it kill the Egyptians to open the Gaza gate and let some aid and supplies through? Well no, it wouldn't, but it might cost them some favours from the US government.

Re:correction (4, Insightful)

burris (122191) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399431)

Would it kill the Egyptians to open the Gaza gate and let some aid and supplies through? Well no, it wouldn't, but it might cost them some favours from the US government.

As Egypt has consistently pointed out, Gaza is occupied by Israel so it's up to Israel whether the border is opened. Ignoring Israel would jeopardize the peace they have found with them.

Re:correction (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399475)

Gaza hasn't been occupied by Israel since they pulled out 3 years ago.

Re:correction (3, Informative)

burris (122191) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399649)

No sir. Israel abandoned their colonies but they still occupy Gaza. That's what gives them power to deny Gaza any trade whatsoever and invade whenever they wish. You can't enter or leave Gaza without permission from Israel. Israel even denies Gazan firshermen the ability to fish in Gazan or International waters. So long as the government in Gaza has no control over it's borders or other functions of a soverign state, it's occupied by Israel.

In fact, Israel has been careful to say that they have simply "disengaged." It's a "disengagement" plan. Gaza is disengaged but occupied. You have to admit, "disengagement" is the true genius in Sharon's legacy.

Re:correction (4, Interesting)

h4rm0ny (722443) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399699)


Just to add some supporting information to illustrate their point, some might be surprised to know that US soldiers are currently stationed in Egypt where they patrol that country's border with Gaza, making sure neither people nor food supplies can pass.

Re:correction (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399515)

How nice of you to tell people what the Jews of Israel really believe. It's a pity that you got that off stormfront rather than reality. Israel doesn't try to exclude non Jews the way Muslim nations do to non-Muslims. They live in a bloody war zone, surrounded by Arabs that have been trying to ethnically cleanse since WW1. When "Zionists" were legally migrating back to their old homeland and buying up land from the Ottoman Empire, it was considered worthless wasteland until they developed it into garden. After WWI, the local Muslims were offered most of the land, but demanded the land the Jews controlled as well. They declared war and tried to genocide the Jews. They failed and continued to reject co-existence and every attempt at peace.

Israel was later established after WW2 and expanded it's territory after the Arab nations tried to destroy it. Millions of Jews were kicked out of Muslim nations after the creation of Israel and many were leaving Europe after the Holocaust. They went to Israel.

A "Zionists" is just a guy wanting to live in his own home in Israel. If you were born there, I guess that makes you a Zionists too. It's just a cheap word used to make people hate Jews even though non-Muslims live in Israel as full citizens and enjoy more rights than anyone else in the entire middle east, including any Muslims living in Muslim nations just next door.

Irony.

Re:correction (1, Insightful)

Pecisk (688001) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399599)

Sorry, but "virtual" or "real" Zionists have nothing to do with current situation. Hamas has aim to destroy Israel. You can spin it as you want, but it is a fact. They don't hide it even now. If someone would threaten to destroy my country just because some saint book tells me so, sorry, no dice.

War is always wrong, but so far I understand jews much better than palestinians.

Re:Second life sim (1, Insightful)

Ethanol-fueled (1125189) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399081)

Victimhood? The Palestinians are playing the professional victim here. Israelis just want to get on with their lives without some dickhead lobbing rockets into their backyard and then cowardly hiding amongst civillians. The Palestinians shot themselves in the foot(most revently) when they elected Hamas(whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel) as their government.

And yet the Palestinians generate sooo much empathy because they are infantilized: "Oooh, they're just babies, how could anybody be mad at them? They're just acting out, it's not their fault. Lighten up Isreal, they're only little kids who kick you repeatedly in the shin and then run behind their mommy's leg for protection."

Re:Second life sim (4, Insightful)

h4rm0ny (722443) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399225)


You got to admit though, it's a lot easier to play the victim when you're starving, walled into a tiny area and can only defend themselves with scraps of old military hardware and bits of rubble against a rich country armed with the latest in US air power that assassinates their democratically elected leaders.

Just saying, you know? ;)

No actually it isn't (5, Insightful)

GuloGulo (959533) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399291)

"You got to admit though, it's a lot easier to play the victim when you're starving, walled into a tiny area and can only defend themselves with scraps of old military hardware and bits of rubble against a rich country armed with the latest in US air power that assassinates their democratically elected leaders."

What are they "defending themselves" from? Oh right, retaliation from their rocket attacks.

It's a lot harder to play the victim when you chose the path of violence in the first place.

Imagine how this conflict would go if the Palestinian's weren't so cowardly and instead used non-violent protests. You know, like Gandhi.

Nah, that kind of stuff never works.

 

Re:No actually it isn't (5, Insightful)

burris (122191) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399451)

So the occupation, colonization, and annexation aren't violent? There's a reason why colonizing land you occupy is forbidden by the 4th Geneva convention, it's because it amounts to ethnic cleansing.

Um ,that was the point (2, Interesting)

GuloGulo (959533) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399503)

"So the occupation, colonization, and annexation aren't violent?"

Uh, yeah they are. Where did I make the argument that they weren't?

Which is why a non-violent response would be so effective, just like it has been in the past. Violence (from the Israelis) would be FAR less tolerated if they were using it against peaceful protesters.

Which was my point.

You seem to have trouble reading for comprehension, try actually reading what you're responding to please.

Re:Um ,that was the point (1)

burris (122191) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399737)

"Non-violent response" like mothers with babies in arms standing in the way death machines so they are forced to mow down innocent people? The Palestinians are doing that as well and are being demonized for using human shields.

Re:No actually it isn't (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399655)

So the occupation, colonization, and annexation aren't violent? There's a reason why colonizing land you occupy is forbidden by the 4th Geneva convention, it's because it amounts to ethnic cleansing.

Israel was established to protect the Jews from further ethnic cleansing. Had it not been for Hitler and the Holocaust, there actually might not be an Israel.

Re:No actually it isn't (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399511)

Imagine how this conflict would go if the Palestinian's weren't so cowardly and instead used non-violent protests. You know, like Gandhi.

Nah, that kind of stuff never works.

Didn't someone get nailed to a cross for suggesting that a couple of thousand years ago in that area?. Not got any better since, as Rachael Corrie would tell you if she had not been crushed to death by Israel for trying that approach.

Re:No actually it isn't (1)

GuloGulo (959533) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399665)

"Didn't someone get nailed to a cross for suggesting that a couple of thousand years ago in that area?. Not got any better since"

Gandhi. MLK. The Egyptian revolution of 1919.

You fail AC.

Re:No actually it isn't (0, Troll)

h4rm0ny (722443) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399521)

What are they "defending themselves" from? Oh right, retaliation from their rocket attacks. It's a lot harder to play the victim when you chose the path of violence in the first place.

Well actually, the latest bout of fighting was begun when the Israeli government attempted to topple the elected government of the Palestinians. The recent "first place" that you refer to was simply the end of a short, agreed ceasefire to encourage negotiation. Hamas (the elected Palestinian government), stated that they wished to continue the ceasefire but demanded that the Israelis allow food to be imported into Gaza. That was fair enough given that they had blockaded the place and the people were starving. Unfortunately, they refused and so the agreed ceasefire came to its end. When starving, violence is to be expected. And it surely was expected (and counted on) by the ruling Israeli party who have elections coming up and are capitalising on their image of being strong.

Imagine how this conflict would go if the Palestinian's weren't so cowardly and instead used non-violent protests. You know, like Gandhi.

That's a little difficult seeing as they are walled in. They can protest all they like but no Israeli is going to see it.

Nah, that kind of stuff never works.

I am a very great admirer of Ghandi and have read a large biography of his life and beliefs. I find it odd that you are so quick to condemn violence by some of the Palestinians, but not the aggression of the Israeli government. Ghandi abhored violence.

You just can't stop (1)

GuloGulo (959533) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399593)

"Well actually the latest bout of fighting was begun when the Israeli government attempted to topple the elected government of the Palestinians."

Actually, you're wrong.

"The recent "first place" that you refer to was simply the end of a short, agreed ceasefire to encourage negotiation".

Thanks for actually admitting the truth. You equivocated, because you're biased, I get that.

Now, two things.

1) A non-violent response can begin at any time. The recent ceasefire was a perfect example, but instead The Plaestinians broke said ceasefire WITH VIOLENCE.

2) Unless people such as yourself stop pretending violence is somehow justified for your side but not for the other, the only thing you'll get is more violence.

Re:Second life sim (2, Insightful)

burris (122191) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399259)

If by "Israeli's just want to get on with their lives" you mean "Israel just wants to continue the decades long program to annex the desirable parts of Palestinian land without the non-Jews" then you're totally right.

Re:Second life sim (1)

dotancohen (1015143) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399399)

If by "Israeli's just want to get on with their lives" you mean "Israel just wants to continue the decades long program to annex the desirable parts of Palestinian land without the non-Jews" then you're totally right.

Israel left Gaza three and a half years ago. Other than providing them with fuel, water, and electricity (for FREE) Israel has had no involvement with Gaza, other than retaliating for rocket strikes. Until two weeks ago, that retaliation was usually limited to simply withholding the free fuel, water, and electricity.

Re:Second life sim (1)

burris (122191) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399497)

Israel provides them with fuel, water, and electricity (deliberately not enough, though Dov Weisglass insists Israel isn't starving them, merely putting them on a diet) because Israel is obligated to as the occupying power. Even though Israel abandoned their colonies in Gaza they are still occupying it. Is that what you mean by no involvement?

Israel still attacks Gaza, as evidenced by the raid on Nov. 4th that broke the cease fire.

The craziest thing is people countenance the intentional withholding of necessary fuel, water, and electricity from 1.5 million of the poorest people on earth, half children.

Re:Second life sim (1)

FishWithAHammer (957772) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399571)

>> Israel still attacks Gaza, as evidenced by the raid on Nov. 4th that broke the cease fire.

Too bad there were still rocket attacks throughout the cease-fire well before that raid. Inconvenient for your lies, eh?

Re:Second life sim (4, Insightful)

h4rm0ny (722443) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399647)

Israel left Gaza three and a half years ago. Other than providing them with fuel, water, and electricity (for FREE) Israel has had no involvement with Gaza, other than retaliating for rocket strikes. Until two weeks ago, that retaliation was usually limited to simply withholding the free fuel, water, and electricity.

If this is so, then why has the Israeli military deliberately targeted Gaza's power infrastructure, blowing up local power stations and stopping aid packages providing food and medicine? You make it sound as though Israel generously supports a destitute population, but in fact, they artificially limit how many supplies are allowed in, US soldiers are stationed in Egypt to keep its border with Gaza sealed after an incident a couple of years ago where local people opened it and Palestinians nipped across to buy groceries, fuel, concrete mix (believe it or not), etc. before returning. Their retaliation was not "simply withholding free fuel, water and electricity" but also food and preventing the importing of non-free supplies, even free aid from other countries, with the use of force.

Re:Second life sim (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399307)

Victimhood? The Palestinians are playing the professional victim here. Israelis just want to get on with their lives without some dickhead lobbing rockets into their backyard and then cowardly hiding amongst civillians. The Palestinians shot themselves in the foot(most revently) when they elected Hamas(whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel) as their government.

And yet the Palestinians generate sooo much empathy because they are infantilized: "Oooh, they're just babies, how could anybody be mad at them? They're just acting out, it's not their fault. Lighten up Isreal, they're only little kids who kick you repeatedly in the shin and then run behind their mommy's leg for protection."

Are they behaving like infants because they were placed in formaldehyde? quote from an Israeli Minister after the Gaza "disengagement"

"It supplies the amount of formaldehyde that is necessary so there will not be a political process with the Palestinians,"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3720176.stm

Israel can hardly claim to be serious about peace with statements like that.

Yes, Israel is so nice and friendly to Palestina (2, Insightful)

ZmeiGorynych (1229722) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399321)

As long as I see 10 to 100 Palestinian casualties reported for every Israeli casualty, I will continue to view Israel as the aggressor and the one with the much larger share of the blame.

Sure, wall them in, take away their land by turning your settlers loose all over the place, freeze their bank accounts and turn off their electricity, bomb them with the latest US hardware, and then complain about how you 'just want to get on with your life' and whine about the occasional mortar while ignoring the damage your bombers and tanks do - just don't expect me to buy that.

Re:Yes, Israel is so nice and friendly to Palestin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399351)

"As long as I see 10 to 100 Palestinian casualties reported for every Israeli casualty, I will continue to view Israel as the aggressor and the one with the much larger share of the blame."

As long as you keep sharing your opinion, no one will care.

Re:Yes, Israel is so nice and friendly to Palestin (1)

sycodon (149926) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399633)

I suppose you believe that Israel should just accept the fact that no matter what they do, leave Gaze, let them elect their own government, etc. that the rockets will keep coming. The rockets will be come more and more sophisticated and eventualy kill more and more.

This notion of proportional response is bullshit. When someone is trying to kill you, then you you have the right to employ whatever amount of force is necessary to stop it.

Read this, http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/09/world/09fighter.html?_r=3&scp=2&sq=islamic%20jihad&st=cse [nytimes.com]

"When we fire we run, but they hit back so fast. We run into the houses to get away." He continued smiling

"Don't you see that these people are hurting?" the militant was asked.
"But I am from the people, too," he said, his smile incandescent. "They lost their loved ones as martyrs. They should be happy. I want to be a martyr, too."

This is the kind of sick and twisted thinking that Israel is facing.

Best thing that could happen is for Israel and the Palestinian population is that the IDF martyrs every last one of these terrorist fucks.

Re:Second life sim (1, Insightful)

Cally (10873) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399417)

Victimhood? The Palestinians are playing the professional victim here.

Judging from the pictures and other reports from the ground [wordpress.com] I've seen, they're the most convincing method actors I've ever seen. That kid in the pics Mahmoud Abbas was showing on the BBC news the other night looked just like he'd been blown to pieces! Seriously, *amazing* special effects, really.

Re:Second life sim (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399651)

They are losing, but it doesn't mean they are victims. Palestinians obviously wanted war when they elected Hamas, now they have it.

Re:Second life sim (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399477)

...Hamas (whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel)...

It sounds cliche, but one of the best strategies for conflict resolution is good communication. Of course, bad communication can make the conflict worse.

I cringe when I see phrases like "destruction of Israel" of "Israel's right to exist". Would Israel still "exist" if it changed its name? Or, would that "destroy" Israel? What if Israel renounced absolutely all racial, religious, ethnic and cultural discrimination - would Israel still "exist"?

Do countries even have rights in the same sense that individual humans do? And, what is a "right"? Something that is universal or irrevocable? Did the former Soviet Union have a right to exist? What about apartheid South Africa?

So often people in conflict claim to know what the other side is thinking (and they usual claim it's something terrible) but what I'd like to see is that people express what they, themselves, are thinking in a precise manner rather than with broad generalities that appeal to emotion rather than reason.

Israeli Terrorism Isn't Funny (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399159)

The US desperately needs to take go in and take out the Israeli weapons of mass destruction and illegal nuclear weapons. Take out a good portion of the military hardware the IDF terrorists use to murder civilians with.

Get the UN in there after the regime change and the leaders are put on trial for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

We could massively cut our insane defense spending if we were no longer linked to supporting Israeli Terrorism.

Re:Israeli Terrorism Isn't Funny (2, Interesting)

ZmeiGorynych (1229722) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399383)

Troll? Sorry, that view of Israel is held by a LOT of people outside the US and Israel (and not just Muslims either), and is certainly not less reasonable than the official US stance over Iraq.

Will I be modded troll too now? OK, go ahead.

US Support Of Israeli Terrorism (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399485)

There are three main factors that keep the US on the self destructive path of supporting Israeli state terrorism:

1. The Christian Fundamentalists who have their crazy beliefs about that region being part of their ticket to Heaven - they don't give a damn about how many civilian are killed by Israel.

2. The NeoCons in the US government who see Israel as a useful platform for their dreams of a US empire across the Middle East

3. Quirks of US election politics where a few key swing states just happen to have large Jewish populations that politicians end up being forced to pander to to get elected.

Nothing is going to change 1., they're just lunatics. Always will be

Things obviously are much better with 2. now that Bush is being dumped on the trash head of history, but the US government is riddled with the crazy people the NeoCons placed at all levels of agencies

Even with Obama's landslide he still completely sold out his foreign policy to the Pro-Israeli Terrorism Lobby, AIPAC in the process of getting elected. Perhaps if he had known he was going to win in a landslide he wouldn't of had to sell his soul to the anti-American AIPAC lobby.

Everyone who had hopes of the US getting safer under Obama better just get over it. The same support of Israeli State Terrorism that has threatened US security in the past will continue unchanged.

Re:US Support Of Israeli Terrorism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399675)

The Christian Fundamentalists who have their crazy beliefs about that region being part of their ticket to Heaven - they don't give a damn about how many civilian are killed by Israel.

That's the easy answer, isn't it? Blame everything on the crazies. Stick your fingers in your ears and pretend that there aren't real issues going on in the region. Nope. America supports Israel because 100% of the people in power are the crazies.

I'm simply blinded by your wit and thoughtful analysis.

Re:Israeli Terrorism Isn't Funny (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399579)

The US desperately needs to take go in and take out the Israeli weapons of mass destruction and illegal nuclear weapons.

Yeah, because Israel is going to turn Gaza into a glass parking lot any day now. Followed shortly by Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan. Right?

If there was ever a nation that was responsible with their nuclear weapons, Israel is it. And I'd much rather they have the deterrents than letting one of their oh-so friendly neighbors think they can lob their own nukes without retaliation.

If you want to look at the ugly underside of Hamas, watch this video:

http://www.whiterabbitcult.com/children-of-hamas-gotta-see-this/ [whiterabbitcult.com]

THAT is your "victims". An entire population brainwashed into being soldiers for a war that doesn't need to happen. You're really telling me that Israel is the aggressor here? Like hell. Peace cannot happen under those conditions.

It's always frustrating to listen to the average person talk about the situation in Israel. The only thing that becomes clear is that they have no concept of the current status nor history of the situation and have no desire to learn. They just buy into the anti-Israel propaganda.

Re:Second life sim (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399517)

For the record, the UN safe house was hit, but it was never "carpet-bombed".

(Never mind the claim that Hamas activists fired from within the UN safe house's perimeter.)

Re:Second life sim (2, Interesting)

DriedClexler (814907) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399393)

Actually, now that you mention it, when I was on Second Life, I made a few items that could be useful in virtual warfare.

1) Virtual covert activities: I scripted listening bugs and planted them in people's virtual apartments so I could hear them in non-IM chats.

2) Virtual propaganda: I scripted objects named after people so that I could put words in people's mouths by having the objects say offensive stuff.[*]

3) Virtual charity laundering: I scripted a bank so that people could hide their money. On certain days, the game would notice you're low on money and fill you up back to some sufficient level. So, you would look poor to get the bonus, and then take your money back out, allowing you to instantiate more virtual rockets.

[*] "But wait!" you ask, "isn't that impossible since objects have green text and human players have white text?" Oh ye of little cunning. When you throw your voice through an object, FIRST you have to make a bunch of comments along the lines of, "Hey, check this out guys, you can made your text green! This is awesome! I'm only going to speak in green lol." For best results, wait until they "afk".

Re:Second life sim (1)

Luscious868 (679143) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399459)

Terrorism is horrible. That being said, how many Palestinians die for every Israeli? Last time I checked 8 Israeli's died because of the rockets and there have been well over 500 Palestinian deaths as a result of the Israel's latest military action. I used to be pro Israel. Now I'm not so sure. The death toll is very lopsided and it isn't exactly a new development. The whole thing is disturbing and both sides are at fault.

Re:Second life sim (1)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399605)

Fortunately, the worse that can happen on Second Life is an attack of flying penises... The Second Life is far more forgiving than the first one.

"Furious stream of mini-debates on Twitter"? (4, Funny)

Scareduck (177470) | more than 5 years ago | (#26398919)

What, how does this go? Infidel! Terrorist! Am not. Are so! Twitter: insanely useless or just a huge waste of time?

Re:"Furious stream of mini-debates on Twitter"? (4, Informative)

DriedClexler (814907) | more than 5 years ago | (#26398973)

In a submission I made that didn't get accepted, I linked the New York Times [nytimes.com] article on Israel's use of Twitter to give their side (israelconsulate page) [twitter.com]. Favorite response?

israelconsulate: we R pro nego[tiation]. crntly tlks r held w the PA + tlks on the 2 state soln. we talk only w/ ppl who accept R rt 2 live."

Re:"Furious stream of mini-debates on Twitter"? (1)

PolarBearFire (1176791) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399039)

Reading their response hurts my head. I don't twitter but are all conversations in the the same vein in terms of spelling?

How Fucking Retarded (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399097)

That's easily the stupidest thing I've seen in quite some time.

No wonder Israel is the pariah of the modern world. They're like the new South Africa - but with Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Re:How Fucking Retarded (0)

damburger (981828) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399357)

South Africa had nukes - 6 primitive gun-type bombs - but got rid of them. Officially for reasons of peace and brotherhood and bollocks like that, in reality because the government saw which way the wind was blowing and didn't want 'darkies' with nuclear weapons.

Re:"Furious stream of mini-debates on Twitter"? (1)

timeOday (582209) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399311)

What, how does this go? Infidel! Terrorist! Am not. Are so! Twitter: insanely useless or just a huge waste of time?

On the other hand, this war - even more than most - really is fought through public opinion. Israel could be slaughtered if they lose US backing, while Gaza is being slaughtered because they haven't yet won the backing of a powerful and willing ally.

Re:"Furious stream of mini-debates on Twitter"? (1)

Cally (10873) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399471)

No, it goes:

Israel: <intense, ten days of round-the-clock barrage of artillery shells, H.E., white phosphorus, and assault rifle fire>

Hamas: Silence! I keeeel you [tinyurl.com]!

Subject (2, Funny)

z-j-y (1056250) | more than 5 years ago | (#26398937)

Twitter debate? So Jews and Muslims follow each other on twitter?

Re:Subject (0, Troll)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399053)

Some of the sockpuppets support the Muslim side - the ones that post comments consisting mostly of the words JEW$ and U$. The rest are pro Israel.

Obama's #1 Priority Stopping Israeli Terrorism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26398957)

The number one security issue for Obama is the US support of Israeli terrorism.

Massive funding and loans
Weapons
And cover and protection from world governing bodies

The Cold War is long over putting our support behind the nuclear armed South Africa of the Middle East makes absolutely no sense. Nor does supporting and whitewashing Israeli terrorism just because a bunch of Christian wackos think it is part of their ticket their particular version of Heaven through crazy end of world myths.

Not Going To Happen (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399057)

Israel has pretty much completely infiltrated the US government from top to bottom. Things will get better with the bat shit insane Neo Cons getting kicked out of office but purging the Israeli supports and flat out agents the Neo Cons littered the US government agencies with over the past decade is going to take years.

The US media no longer even tries to pretend to try to report news on the Middle East and is now just outright working as PR agents for every new Israeli atrocity against people living in Palestine or other countries.

Re:Not Going To Happen (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399405)

You're one of those people that wear tin foil hats, aren't you?

I'd like to see that stats on traffic. (4, Interesting)

Samschnooks (1415697) | more than 5 years ago | (#26398963)

It sounds like having a "discussion" about this conflict is a great way to generate traffic to ones website.

Re:I'd like to see that stats on traffic. (4, Funny)

Eli Gottlieb (917758) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399155)

Why do you think it's come up for a third time on Slashdot?

Re:I'd like to see that stats on traffic. (4, Funny)

timeOday (582209) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399347)

Maybe we should go start our own website for stuff nobody cares about or wants to discuss.

Edit ninjas (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399001)

This is how Wikipedia gets their info [digg.com] on the Gaza Conflict. Why have bother with [citation needed] when you can have a ninja to be your reliable source.

Re:Edit ninjas (1, Funny)

Eli Gottlieb (917758) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399165)

Ninjas are East-Asian imperialism. All the people of God rely not on edit-ninjas but upon the Edit-Hashshashin!

Re:Edit ninjas (2, Funny)

dotancohen (1015143) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399473)

The ninjas got me when I tried editing the Neptune article a few months ago. I was changing the sentence "Neptune was the first planet found by mathematical prediction rather than regular observation" to "Neptune was the only planet found by mathematical prediction rather than regular observation". Three different editors reverted me in the space of ten minutes. Here, I've tried again just now, let's see how fast it gets reverted:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neptune [wikipedia.org]

There won't be any peace there until (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399063)

people there get tired of killing each other. That doesn't seem like it is going to happen any time soon.

Well this should be straigtforward... (4, Insightful)

feepness (543479) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399075)

Since my side is completely blameless and your side is the obvious aggressor.

Re:Well this should be straigtforward... (0, Troll)

Eli Gottlieb (917758) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399187)

No YOUR side is the obvious aggressor! It said so in my Alex Jones informational video on YouTube!

Finish the jews like Hitler (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399107)

Nazi Method

WARNING: You will be using dangerous chemicals while producing this shit. This is not a fucking game, this is not something you do for fun, you MUST know what you're doing.
I have used this formula and made 1/4 pound of some high quality shit.
Materials you need:
â 3 Gallons of Anhydrous Ammonia
â 40 lithium batteries (allthough ive never tried it, ive heard you can replace the betteries with lithium pills)
â 4 gal of starter fluid
â 5000 Ephedrine pills
â 2 liter GLASS bottle
â long rubber hose
â bottle of sufuric acid
â 5 gallon bucket
â ball of alluminum foil
1. Remove the casing from the batteris and get the strips.
2. Put the Ani, pills, starter fluid, and lithium strips in the 5 gallon bucket
3. Put a hole in the bottle that is big enough to fit your hose. Put the hose on the bottle
4. Put the sufuric acid in the bottle, but be carefull cause that shit will eat you to the bone.
5. Put a ball of alluminum foil in the bottle.
6. Take the free end of the hose and put it in the bottom the the bucket.
7. In all the bubbling is done give it a stir and let it sit for 4 hours.
8. after 4 hours CAREFULLY pour out the nasty liquid. you will see alot of gunk at the bottom, thats all meth. get it all out and let it dry.
WHAT?! its that easy. Not exactly, take EVERY precaution you can.
After its done, it will be one big chunk of rock. You can either crush it up into a powder form and sell it as crank (which seems to go farther), or you can break off in small chunks sell it as Ice (goes shorter but people LOVE ice). After your done, you will have a 1/4 pound of meth, which is 4 ounces. I sold 3 and kept one for myself.
Precautions
Wear a mask and gloves if you can
Do it someplace remote.
NEVER let the sufuric acid touch the ani, as it will poison your batch. make sure theres not moisture in or around the bucket or, as totse says,
KA-FUCKING-BOOM!
Don't be a dumbass. KNOW WHAT YOU'RE FUCKING WITH!!!

One state solution (1)

ragnathor (955771) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399179)

One state, one country for the whole region. The economies and populations (especially in the West Bank) are so interspersed. Sure there are extremists on both sides who would hate it, but after a generation things would be drastically different. If you take a look at the West Bank, a Palestinian state is not viable unless there is massive evacuation of Israeli settlements, which is also unrealistic. Maybe it will take another 50+ years, but the only lasting peace/stability in the region will come by making the whole area one country.

Re:One state solution (4, Insightful)

burris (122191) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399329)

Why is evacuation of Israeli colonies in the West Bank unrealistic? Israel evacuated their colonies in Gaza, they can do it in the West Bank. The settlements would be good partial reparation to the Palestinians. It's not like Israel and the colonists didn't know that what they were doing was illegal and wrong.

Otherwise, I'm right with you on the one state solution. Don't forget a constitution that's the supreme law of the land (along with treaties) that guarantees equal rights for all persons.

Re:One state solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399335)

The problem I see is that since Hamas is a terrorist organization, the extremists that hate it would be the same ones blowing stuff up well after a unified region is established.

This is such a sticky situation that I really don't forsee an outcome other than Gaza getting beat into nothing, like what's happening now, and the rest of the Arab world retaliating.

Re:One state solution (1)

c6gunner (950153) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399341)

One state, one country for the whole region.

Oh yeah! What could possibly go wrong?

You know, I'm truly amazed that people like you can function on a day-to-day basis. It's like you're inhabiting some sort of upside-down-world, where up is down and black is white. I'm surprised you haven't managed to kill yourself yet by taking a bath in the fireplace.

Re:One state solution (1)

ragnathor (955771) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399489)

Why not? I didn't say it was easy or simple. What about South Africa? They certainly didn't get along and people might have looked at you crazy had you suggested it way back win. I've been to Israel and the West Bank.

What about slavery here in the US? Racism is still a problem, but certainly much improved from 100 years ago.

Obviously there are going to be on both sides that don't like it, but with the way the populations are so interconnected, I don't see any other situation that will be stable in the long term.

Despite what you might think, there are people there on both sides who don't give a shit who is right and just want to live out their lives. There are plenty of areas where the two sides live peacefully.

Re:One state solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399543)

One state, one country for the whole region

Nice idea, but are you sure that Israel, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and all the other Middle Eastern countries won't mind losing their autonomy in order to merge into a superstate?

Re:One state solution (1)

ragnathor (955771) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399629)

I only meant Israel/occupied Palestine rather than the whole Middle East. Certainly enough people would be shocked at the idea of the former, and probably laugh in my face if I mentioned the latter.

SL Demonstration? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399181)

Why in the world would you have a demonstration in Second Life? There's hardly anyone on there anymore now that all the hype has died down. It seems like the worst possible idea for getting publicity.

Flash game (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399257)

There's a flash game called Raid Gaza! [newgrounds.com]. Player is Israel. Object: have highest palestinian death: israeli death ratio. Includes some nasty quotes by Israeli leaders.

It makes its point well; a minute into the game I found it more sickening than sarcastically funny.

Israel's right to exist (1, Informative)

tom1974 (413939) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399279)

There can be no peace with people that don't even recognise Israel's right to exist.

Re:Israel's right to exist (3, Insightful)

burris (122191) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399409)

States don't have rights, only persons have rights. Instead, States have powers that they justly derive from the people. States also exist or not at the whims of the people. Sometimes the people have a revolution, found a new state and the old state is wiped off the map.

Did Apartheid South Africa have a right to exist?

Re:Israel's right to exist (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399637)

People have a right to self determination. The state is just an expression of that.

Did America under Bush have a right to exist? But America was never destroyed, it just changed.

Anyone calling for America's destruction on Slashdot would be modded troll, even though America, like many other countries, was built on stolen land.

Re:Israel's right to exist (1)

burris (122191) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399711)

Thanks, and Israel is denying the Palestinians their right to self determination.

American land was stolen in less enlightened times. Stolen prior to the establishment of the League of Nations / UN, prior to the Hague and Geneva Conventions, prior to WWII, and prior to the introduction of nuclear weapons. The defenders of Israel, China, and other states attempting to acquire territory by force in modern times would like us to return to a time of lawlessness. A time when acquiring territory by force was acceptable, as was slavery.

Re:Israel's right to exist (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399653)

your description is of states in fairy land.

in the real world a state derives power from use of force and compounds that power until such time that the crimes of said state become unbearable to it's subjects and violent revolution or secession forms a new state to begin concentration of power until it is overthrown.

the alternatives are too little power accumulation and conquest by a hostile neighbor or collapse of the central government due to ineffective internal control.

Re:Israel's right to exist (1)

sentientbeing (688713) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399487)

Ill paraphrase your starement 'I support the israelis doing things so hideous that they lose their self respect as a country.'

I have THE solution (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399293)

No really. The definitive solution : me move all palestinian to say, the south pole. We move all Israelien to the north Pole. We let them cool down there. Then while everybody is gone, we double check no living being are left in the "holy" shitty land. Then we put atom bomb at regular space, to transform the whole shebang in a giant parking lot. Once this is done, we SALT the earth. In depth. Once this is done, we put all kind of traps, mine, bomb, automated gun sentries. Anybody trying to go back on their shitty holy land get blasted to smithern. Problem solved.

Re:I have THE solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399391)

Your heart is in the right place, but your plan is unnecessarily complicated. Here is my proposal:

Carpet the Holy Land with neutron bombs. Adjust the bombs so they put on the most long-term radiation they can. Make the whole Disputed Zone uninhabitable for the next 10000 years.

Drop warning leaflets a week or two before the operation; refugees can immigrate to North America if they'd like.

Hopefully after 10000 years the bad blood will be forgotten; if not, it'll still be our descendent's problem.

Re:I have THE solution (1)

pjt33 (739471) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399495)

Carpet the Holy Land with neutron bombs. Adjust the bombs so they put on the most long-term radiation they can.

You realise that is the precise opposite of what neutron bombs do (and were designed for), which is to kill people without making the area uninhabitable?

Re:I have THE solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399551)

I thought its purpose was to kill Soviet tank crews, and the worry was that it'd be used to kill civilians while leaving infrastructure intact. Or, leave historical sites intact.

Re:I have THE solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399615)

Then tell everyone that they can test their faith in God by surviving a blindfolded walk across the booby-trapped holy land.

Get the Jews out (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399295)

Israel needs to just leave the Middle East. They have no right to that land and the entire region is antagonized by their existence there. Just because Hitler killed a bunch of Jews is no reason to create an artificial state in the Middle East and take land away from the people who were living there.

The U.S. definitely needs to stop supporting Israel with weapons, money and supplies. It's funny how few people can see this issue from both sides and realize it is essentially just a revolt against imperialism like in the U.S., Latin America, India, or Asia.

Why not a Quake Deathmatch? (1)

G3ckoG33k (647276) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399317)

Some twenty eras ago people suggested that many conflicts might better had been solved by chess. Today, a Quake Deathmatch seems more appropriate.. And, it is virtual.

.

Re:Why not a Quake Deathmatch? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399407)

maybe something like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_boxing ?

I think it's a wonderful idea to make boxing more healthy. If you are not careful with your head, you are not going to survive the chess rounds.
It also teaches you to mentally cool down after each boxing round, which also seems very useful in this context.

Here's the bottom line (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399401)

If the Muslims put down their weapons, there would be no more war.

If the Israelis put down their weapons, there would be no more Israel.

That alone tells you all you need to know about who is the good and who is the bad in this war.

Why is it always violence? (2, Insightful)

GuloGulo (959533) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399403)

When was the last time the Palestinians tried non-violent protests?

It would be very hard for Israel to justify a military response against people who openly acknowledge they have no desire for violence.

They would probably do it anyway, but world opinion would be decidedly different I suspect.

Instead you get geniuses who bring a knife to a machine gun fight, and complain that they're getting shot at for firing rockets into civilian areas.

Re:Why is it always violence? (1)

ZmeiGorynych (1229722) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399549)

As far as I can judge, "World opinion" outside of the US is already pretty much pro-Palestine - at least certainly NOT overwhelmingly pro-Israel.

If you and most people you know had someone close to them murdered by the Israeli army, I suspect you'd find it hard to think about non-violence.

You Fucking Piece Of Garbage (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399553)

What a piece of shit you are.

Someone needs to drag your fucked in the head ass to Palestine and see first hand what it is like to live under constant Israeli Terrorism that is funded and supported by the world's sole superpower.

Would put an immediate end to the revolting garbage you are spewing you FUCKING HUMAN TURD.

Re:Why is it always violence? (2, Insightful)

Yvanhoe (564877) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399569)

Why do you think that the whole security council of UN except USA wants Israel to stop its current attack ?

Palestinians used to have Yasser Arafat as a leader, a Peace Nobel Prize. Israel didn't want to negociate with him and played a big role in his death. There are a lot of things that are very hard to justify for Israel, which is a nation that is considered democratic, developed and that plays a role on the international scene. This is why many people try to pressure it. Saying that Israel does things that are incredibly wrong does not in any case says that the Hamas is right. But the Hamas is already considered as a terrorist organization, and condemned by almost every country in the world (including Arab countries).

Re:Why is it always violence? (5, Informative)

ragnathor (955771) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399589)

Try everyday in small villages no one gives a shit about. Read Palestinian media and Arab news and you'll see plenty of non-violent protests (one sided reporting of course).

What happens at these non-violent protests, such as demonstrations against the construction of the "security wall" in the West Bank? The protesters get stoned by right wing Israeli settlers, or are dispersed by tear gas and rubber bullets from the Israeli army.

Re:Why is it always violence? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399619)

When was the last time the Palestinians tried non-violent protests?

Non-violent demonstrations happen all the time (but they don't get much press in the USA). The kind of "non-violent" civil disobedience that Gandhi used just gets people arrested by the Israeli military (and very few people in the USA even notice).

So, actually, the Palestinians are trying both violent and non-violent approaches (and neither has had much success) - but it's the violent approaches that you hear about in the USA because it allows Israel to justify what it's doing to the Palestinians.

Israel's right to exist? (5, Insightful)

ZekoMal (1404259) | more than 5 years ago | (#26399463)

Why does it have a right to exist? I understand perfectly well that the good ol' Bible tells us Israel ought exist, but it didn't exist for a while because everyone sacked the place and took it as their own. We didn't bring back Rome Israel or Persia Israel; we brought back the first Israel, for the 'league of nations' opted to do it. After the first World War. Now, I'm not that good with math...but from the end of the reign of a Judaism country to World War 1....gonna guess other people lived there.

To give you a faaaaint idea of what I'm hinting at. Imagine if the US wasn't in the UN, and the UN decided that Native Americans needed their land back. So, they gave them the entire east coast of the US, to be their land. They were given basically whatever they wanted, and they began to push the US citizens gradually to the west, claiming various areas that are more desirable than others (IE, they take Yellowstone national park, leave us Death valley). They are far richer than the US citizens, and have far more support (although Canada and Mexico support the US citizens, lets just say the UN has marked them as third world terrorists). So, let's say that the US citizens scrap together some money, and a small group that want to win back their land, bomb the native Americans. The retaliation? The natives start bombing the civilians that didn't have a thing to do with it. They keep bombing, despite the UN telling them to stop.

Seems like a stretch.

Of course, I don't see why Israel was reinstated. People lived there after the Israelites got wiped out, and then the rest of the world told the Palestinians (arguably not the same exact people who did this), were told to shove over.

I'll probably get modded troll though...it's very mean and uncool to be pro-Palestine civilians. Nope, if you think Israel is wrong, you are a pro-terrorist.

Another Gaza debate.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26399573)

Another "debate" is taking place on http://gaza.fotopages.com [fotopages.com] although its all pro-palestinian posts so far.

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