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Call For Grant Proposals In Perl Development

kdawson posted more than 5 years ago | from the sand-in-the-oyster dept.

Perl 137

On Elpeleg writes "The Perl Foundation is giving out grants for Perl development ranging from $500 to $3,000 in February 2009. You neither need to have a large, complex, or lengthy project nor be a Perl master or guru. You are encouraged to submit a proposal if you have a good idea and the means and ability to accomplish your Perl project. The deadline for proposal submissions is January 31, 2009."

cancel ×

137 comments

Rules and Regulations (5, Funny)

schmidt349 (690948) | more than 5 years ago | (#26427093)

Your proposal must be submitted in the form of a self-aware regular expression with at least 200 backreferences.

Re:Rules and Regulations (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26427155)

I'm glad I don't have a whole country full of deceitful, greedy kikes stealing all my water and land anywhere near me. Fucking Jews can't just live in peace. They have to steal other people's land. Our national economy is collapsing from the Jewbanks doing their usual Jewthing. You see, with Jews, you lose. That's how THEY win. They WIN by making YOU lose. So let's lose the Jews.

Global warming could be swiftly solved if we incinerated all of the Jews. Their ashes would be ejected into the upper atmosphere, where they would block some sunlight from hitting the earth. The economy would improve thanks to the absence of Jewish predatory lending, and it would buy us time to deal with climate change. Two birds, one stone.

Fun with Facts:

  • Isreal has a Jewish population of 5,309,000.
  • America has a Jewish population of 5,275,000.

Guess who really owns America? Hint hint, it isn't the Americans.

Re:Rules and Regulations (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26427399)

I think it's about time you assholes get out of your ivory tower and realize your smugness and your lousy programming language does nothing but keep Computer Science back 20 years. Big deal! your precious C language can access the hardware. Big Whoop! you have no build in print function. I think it's about time to stop masturbating to your boring interrupt calls and grow up. The world is evolving and if we keep outself stuck to that crud that is C, we will no achieve worth while computing. So many projects would be so much better if your legacy dated language wasn't chosen. Yeah, I'm looking at you Linux and GTK. Writing a successful GUI program in C is just as ridiculous and time consuming as it gets. Grow up and realize there are other languages that are better suited for work rather than self satisfactory masturbation you retards get. Fuck Kernighan and Richie, those guys wrote good stuff back in the 70s when the tool was needed for the job. So while you are hunting down malloc() calls because that GUI that took you 10 years to write and pissing on itself in memory leaks the rest of the world will actually be getting some work done.

#include <fuckyou.h>
 
    int main(){
 
/* A very useless C program */
 
        fuck_the_c_language(0);
 
        return 0;
 
    }

Re:Rules and Regulations (-1, Offtopic)

icepick72 (834363) | more than 5 years ago | (#26427505)

Wow, both trollish and insightful, very engaging reading. Can't wait to see how this one turns out ...

Re:Rules and Regulations (1)

GigaplexNZ (1233886) | more than 5 years ago | (#26428697)

Insightful? On something that claims printf doesn't exist in C? You don't have to be a programmer to recognise the Hello World example.

Re:Rules and Regulations (1)

Lord Bitman (95493) | more than 5 years ago | (#26429835)

C doesn't have any "built in functions", that I'm aware of. It's got a standard library, yeah, but no "built ins". It's a pedantic issue of semantics, but it's technically true.

Re:Rules and Regulations (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26428589)

You sound like a Python programmer.

Re:Rules and Regulations (1)

RichardJenkins (1362463) | more than 5 years ago | (#26429801)

This is an awesome idea, can I implement the project in Python ;)

I propose (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26427215)

all women shave their pussies. Camel Toe!

Re:I propose (1)

bytesex (112972) | more than 5 years ago | (#26430133)

Funnily, that isn't even all too off-topic in a discussion on perl. But I'm not for it, anyway. I like my camels with a bit of hair.

That isn't enough $$$ (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26427251)

Ha! They'll have to pay me more than $3000 to code in Perl

Re:That isn't enough $$$ (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26427269)

I make over 120K a year programming in Perl.

Re:That isn't enough $$$ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26427407)

I only make $86k (+misc stock), but then again, I'm not quite 2 years out of college.

Re:That isn't enough $$$ (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26431249)

I didn't realize you needed a college degree to suck cock in truck stop bathrooms.

Re:That isn't enough $$$ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26433961)

I suck at making money. I'm a damn wizard at perl and have been doing it for almost 10 years and have never come close to what you are making.

Pointless motivating with small money (2, Insightful)

EmbeddedJanitor (597831) | more than 5 years ago | (#26427553)

As parent says, nobody worthwhile is going to do these projects for the money. Even if you're earning only $20/hr (big money in some parts of the world), then $1k is just 50 hours - hardly worth doing for the money. For most higher paid programmers $1k is less than 20 hours.

That means you're really going to be doing it for the honor. In that case forget the money and rather make a "hall of fame", something like: http://armlinux.simtec.co.uk/whoswho.html [simtec.co.uk] . That's worth more for a good consultant and costs almost nothing to give out as a prize.

Re:That isn't enough $$$ (5, Interesting)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 5 years ago | (#26427973)

Six figure salaries for a programmer is a sign of doom for the language. Nobody else is willing to do your job because the rest of the world has moved on. If only I could have my days as a $35/hr. VB 6.0 programmer back.

I thought it meant you lived in NY/California? (4, Insightful)

BerntB (584621) | more than 5 years ago | (#26428361)

Some places DO seem to pay that kind of money. Or the GP lied. Or the really is good (the Perl world has some really smart and interesting people).

The real problem for Perl is the bad hype, which your tro... hrm, guessing without facts, is a typical example of.

Re:I thought it meant you lived in NY/California? (1)

sholsinger (1131365) | more than 5 years ago | (#26431387)

I get paid $50/hr for VB.NET stuff. (Northeast PA) There ARE still quite a few of VB6 to .NET port projects around, so don't give up hope just yet. And in most cases, you won't need to change too much. VB8(.NET 2.0) has a lot of legacy backward compatibilities built into the language to allow for VB6-style coding practices. And .NET2.0+ are much nicer to work with than 1.1, as with most M$ releases, you want to wait until the second service pack or version.

The .NET framework isn't difficult to understand or learn, and is well documented in most cases. Though the few cases that aren't are usually the most difficult and frustrating to troubleshoot. Especially without the source.

Re:I thought it meant you lived in NY/California? (1)

BerntB (584621) | more than 5 years ago | (#26431725)

Your comment ended up in the wrong place? I have never written a line of VB in my life and haven't programmed a Win computer for more than half a decade.

Re:That isn't enough $$$ (1)

somenickname (1270442) | more than 5 years ago | (#26428427)

US$35/hr to code in VB? I'm going to have to assume the benefits were good. Something along the lines of, "Location: Strip Club". I can think of no other plausible reason to subject yourself to that pain for so little money.

Re:That isn't enough $$$ (1)

larry bagina (561269) | more than 5 years ago | (#26431277)

In that case, Steve Ballmer and his 7-figure salary should be worried!

Re:That isn't enough $$$ (0, Offtopic)

TheModelEskimo (968202) | more than 5 years ago | (#26428415)

I don't get it. If you make like $129K or $121K, why don't you just say so, rather than this "over than" stuff? I don't think anybody's going to look at that and think, "hey, maybe he makes $900K! He did say *over*, after all!" That and you're posting as AC, which shouldn't make it a big deal... :D

Re:That isn't enough $$$ (0, Offtopic)

TheModelEskimo (968202) | more than 5 years ago | (#26428423)

"over than." sigh. I hope this vista upgrade finishes soon so I can go to bed.

Re:That isn't enough $$$ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26431423)

I make pretty good money doing Perl too but it seems right to give back too.

Wishlist (4, Insightful)

coryking (104614) | more than 5 years ago | (#26427279)

1) Better tools... improve EPIC. Perl lacks a good IDE.
2) Get perl running on IIS using ISAPI (basically, mod_perl for IIS).
3) Either finish Perl6 or give up. Nobody cares about the CLR thing, give us Perl6 the language. The delay in shipping Perl6 is killing the language.
4) ????
5) Create a branch in CPAN called Ponies::*. There are many libraries for ponies such as Ponies::Little or Ponies::Fast.

Re:Wishlist (2, Insightful)

dark12222000 (1076451) | more than 5 years ago | (#26427857)

1. It's perl. You really don't need any IDE.
2. If you're trying to use perl on IIS, you shouldn't be using perl.
3. Well, alright, I'll agree there.
4. !!!!
5. I'd like to place a vote for ...well crap, I can't actually think of anything CPAN lacks.

Re:Wishlist (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26431983)

Wow, you know nothing about Perl, right?

Your answers to 1) and 2) are ridiculous. One of the core assumptions of Perl is that the user (read: developer) knows best what (s)he wants to do, so the language isn't trying to railroad him/her in any particular way. There is no single "right way" to do things; so if somebody wants to use (or write) an IDE for Perl, that's fine, and if somebody wants to use Perl on IIS, that's fine, too.

Perl 6 is there for you to play with in the form of Pugs. I know that's not what you mean, of course; what you mean is Rakudo, which is also coming along nicely.

nonsense (1)

coryking (104614) | more than 5 years ago | (#26435135)

1) Good IDE's like eclipse or Visual Studio make a programmer more productive. They have refactoring tools, they analyze your code and make it easy to track down where stuff is, they parse your comments to provide very useful tooltips that describe function parameters (intellesense). Without such tools, it takes significantly longer to learn how a new project fits together. Just being able to right click on a bit of code that calls a method and say "goto definition" is worth the price alone.
2) Nonsense. PHP runs on IIS, why shouldn't perl. IIS has a lot of cool stuff going for it these days that apache doesn't.
3) Good.
4) #@$%
5) Ponies my friend, ponies.

Re:Wishlist (4, Informative)

ImustDIE (689509) | more than 5 years ago | (#26427929)

1) Better tools... improve EPIC. Perl lacks a good IDE.

Activestate's Komodo is a pretty decent IDE.

Re:Wishlist (1)

palegray.net (1195047) | more than 5 years ago | (#26428943)

Eh, I like Komodo all right, but I wind up writing the majority of my code in plain old gedit [gnome.org] . Actually, almost any editor with syntax highlighting is "good enough" for me. Several of my active projects number in the many thousands of lines of code, too.

Re:Wishlist (4, Informative)

bcrowell (177657) | more than 5 years ago | (#26427995)

The delay in shipping Perl6 is killing the language.

Perl is dead, Netcraft confirms it.

But seriously, why does it make perl any less viable a language if a production-quality perl 6 takes a long time? Perl 5 continues to be lovingly maintained. Perl 6 will be able to run perl 5 modules in compatibility mode. Perl 6 is already out, and if you want to use it, you can; it's just not yet up to the same very high standards of quality and performance as perl 5.

Re:Wishlist (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26431103)

Perl 6 will be able to run perl 5 modules in compatibility mode.

I won't hold my breath for that.

First, write a specification for the perl 5 language.

The idea of being able to reproduce by error-and-trial all that scary mess of special cases is absurd.

Re:Wishlist (1)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 5 years ago | (#26435345)

First, write a specification for the perl 5 language.

Simple: A program is well-formed Perl 5, if the Perl v5.10.0 interpreter doesn't give you any error for it. The semantics of a Perl 5 program is defined by the behaviour exhibited when run on the Perl v5.10.0 interpreter. :-)

It matters because it creates uncertianty. (1)

coryking (104614) | more than 5 years ago | (#26435181)

If you were starting a new project would you base it on Perl5 when you aren't sure Perl6 is just around the corner? No offense to anybody, but Perl6 is a classic example of the second system syndrome and serves as an excellent reminder of why it is never a good idea to rewrite code. While they were busy rewriting code, PHP, Ruby and Python cleaned their lunch.

Perl 6 is already out

It isn't out until I read about its release on Arstechnica and Slashdot.

Re:Wishlist (0, Offtopic)

[m1] (1392) | more than 5 years ago | (#26428049)

6) eliminate this bafflingly ridiculous notion of "references."

from http://perldoc.perl.org/perlreftut.html [perl.org] :

One of the most important new features in Perl 5 was the capability to manage complicated data structures like multidimensional arrays and nested hashes. To enable these, Perl 5 introduced a feature called `references', and using references is the key to managing complicated, structured data in Perl.

It boggles the mind that I have to go through this nonsense to store an array in an array. Guess what I have to do in order to store an array in an array in ruby...

or rather, guess what I don't have to do in order to store an array in an array in ruby (or probably python as well).

Re:Wishlist (1)

SputnikPanic (927985) | more than 5 years ago | (#26428225)

Now hang on just a second. You've got a 4-digit ID. Aren't you supposed to be sitting atop some mountain, impervious to cold and clime, telling all those dedicated enough to seek your wisdom how the meaning of all human existence can be expressed in one beautifully simple line of perl?

Re:Wishlist (1)

draven (387) | more than 5 years ago | (#26431399)

What's so cool about a 4 digit id?

Re:Wishlist (4, Interesting)

NickFortune (613926) | more than 5 years ago | (#26429121)

It boggles the mind that I have to go through this nonsense to store an array in an array. Guess what I have to do in order to store an array in an array in ruby...

Would it be something like this?

ruby -e '

foo=Array.new
foo[1]=Array.new
foo[1][2] = 3 '

or rather, guess what I don't have to do in order to store an array in an array in ruby

Something like this?

perl -e '$foo[1][2] = 3'

Perhaps it would help if you said which nonsense, specifically, struck you as being onerous?

Re:Wishlist (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26431335)

try

ruby -e 'foo = [[3]]'

Re:Wishlist (1)

pne (93383) | more than 5 years ago | (#26432483)

Then try

perl -e '$foo = [[3]]'

Pretty much the same thing.

['arrays', ['inside', 'other'], 'arrays', ['are', 'possible', ['in', 'Perl'], 'too']];

Re:Wishlist (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26431157)

I wouldn't call them "baffling". They're pretty simple in concept. The problem I have is in referencing and dereferencing them or testing for their existence or not (e.g., iterating through a list of them and finding the end of the list), which is crazy and quirky when they are nested several data structures deep. The operator precedence is all screwed up, or something, and the only way I've been able to reliably do it is by dumping them into temporary variables and dereferencing in stages. There's something I'm not getting, even though I've written a >10k line set of program modules in perl that use references extensively.

I've changed my mind. References are conceptually simple, but you're right, they are baffling when it comes to using them practically.

Re:Wishlist (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26428187)

5) Create a branch in CPAN called Ponies::*. There are many libraries for ponies such as Ponies::Little or Ponies::Fast.

Shouldn't those be inside the Object Management Group libraries?

Re:Wishlist (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26428295)

I'll probably get the "get off my lawn" response with this one, but I seriously don't get the dire need some "programmers" feel about having an IDE that matches the language their using. Just get to know emacs or vim and you'll never ask for an IDE again.

Re:Wishlist (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26431597)

You can stay on my lawn... it's ok.

Re:Wishlist (1)

coryking (104614) | more than 5 years ago | (#26435209)

emacs and vim aren't the same. Syntax coloring and auto-indentation are only 10% of what makes an IDE useful.

Re:Wishlist (4, Funny)

somenickname (1270442) | more than 5 years ago | (#26428321)

1) Better tools... improve EPIC. Perl lacks a good IDE.

Why would you need an IDE to write a single line of code?

Re:Wishlist (1)

Crayon Kid (700279) | more than 5 years ago | (#26432545)

Yeah. That's what ed is for.

Re:Wishlist (2, Insightful)

outZider (165286) | more than 5 years ago | (#26428469)

1) EPIC sucks, and so does Eclipse. Try ActiveState Komodo, but they half ass it anyway. Perl does need a good IDE.
2) Download ActiveState perl, set PerlISAPI.dll as the handler for your pl or cgi files, done. It's free, too.
3) Shut the hell up. Have you seen the amount of progress on Rakudo lately? Pugs, the reference implementation of Perl6, has been around for a while. The real thing, the real working thing, is in development and you can play with it and actually write scripts now.
4) Eat crap.
5) What.

Re:Wishlist (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26428577)

If you need a 300mb Java-based IDE to code perl, you're doing it wrong.

JAPH

Re:Wishlist (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26428609)

Let me fix that for you -

"The delay in shipping Perl6 is killing the language."

The delay in shipping Perl 6 KILLED the language.....

Re:Wishlist (2, Informative)

stop bothering me (1221424) | more than 5 years ago | (#26428647)

1) Better tools... improve EPIC. Perl lacks a good IDE

Have you seen Padre?. [perlide.org] A Perl IDE written in Perl.

Re:Wishlist (3, Insightful)

asackett (161377) | more than 5 years ago | (#26428897)

My Perl IDE is called XEmacs. Perhaps you've heard of it?

Re:Wishlist (1)

RichardJenkins (1362463) | more than 5 years ago | (#26429837)

Oh yeah, I've heard of it. Try using vi. To edit python files.

He he.

Re:Wishlist (1)

Myrddin Wyllt (1188671) | more than 5 years ago | (#26431013)

My Perl IDE is called XEmacs. Perhaps you've heard of it?

I agree that emacs is still the sensible choice; either that or setting the universal constants [xkcd.com] , which I understand works well for some [xkcd.com] people.

Re:Wishlist (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26429545)

1)http://it.slashdot.org/it/05/12/15/2112237.shtml?tid=145&tid=8 :(
2)Active State has had this for ages ... did they stop shipping it? https://www.activestate.com/Products/activeperl/system_requirements.plex "Perl for ISAPI: ISAPI compatible Web server such as IIS 4.0+ or PWS 4.0+"
3)Just drop the whole thing.
4)$$$
5)Factory::Glue::Process(\@Ponies);

Re:Wishlist (1)

bytesex (112972) | more than 5 years ago | (#26430215)

A standard cross-platform GUI library; perl is eminently suited for GUI work but we still have to make do with an interface to GTK. I know this isn't the nineties anymore, but GUI work still has a place.

Dead on with the perl6 thing. Continue with it, but call it something else. And produce perl6 with new and improved classes and runtime-context-free grammars and regexes without a VM.

Re:Wishlist (1)

berend botje (1401731) | more than 5 years ago | (#26431135)

Perl lacks one thing only: a compiler.

Having to install a metric boatload of modules and runtime on the clients system everytime you deploy an application gets old fast.

Re:Wishlist (1)

eneville (745111) | more than 5 years ago | (#26431617)

thats because its designed to be interpreted.

perlcc does produce binary output though

Hmmm... (1)

coryking (104614) | more than 5 years ago | (#26435283)

Having to install a metric boatload of modules and runtime on the clients system everytime you deploy an application gets old fast.

I agree with you on this. I've yet to see a really good "best practices for perl deployment".

That said, wait until you deploy a PHP application only to find that PHP wasn't compiled with some feature you were using. Good times.

Re:Wishlist (1)

x78 (1099371) | more than 5 years ago | (#26431161)

Heard of vi? lighttpd?

Vi is not an IDE (1)

coryking (104614) | more than 5 years ago | (#26435333)

Syntax Coloring and auto-indentation is a baseline that every text editor should support. IDE's parse your code and give you useful information about it. They parse your comments (xmldoc for C#) and use them for tooltips. They help you find function declarations. They help you refactor your code. They help manage your files. They integrate into your version control system. And so on.

To go slightly off topic, I think intellesense was the best invention ever. It gives a programmer a very strong incentive to comment their functions and parameters because those comments show up right away in the IDE.

Re:Wishlist (1)

adamkennedy (121032) | more than 5 years ago | (#26431163)

> 1) Better tools... improve EPIC. Perl lacks a good IDE.

Padre [perlide.org] is improving in leaps and bounds so that problem should hopefully be gone soon.

Re:Wishlist (1)

shvytejimas (1083291) | more than 5 years ago | (#26431593)

5) Create a branch in CPAN called Ponies::*. There are many libraries for ponies such as Ponies::Little or Ponies::Fast

and Ponies::OMG

I propose... (-1, Flamebait)

CarpetShark (865376) | more than 5 years ago | (#26427343)

Let's just dump the thing, and switch to python... well, OK, ruby too, since perl types seem to dig that more.

Re:I propose... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26429023)

in theory I agree. In practice, you should try uninstalling it.

i just got off the toilet (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26427441)

i shit out an obama.

Proposal requirements (4, Funny)

NewbieProgrammerMan (558327) | more than 5 years ago | (#26427531)

You neither need to have a large, complex, or lengthy project nor be a Perl master or guru.

You do, however, have to be able to fit it all on one line.

Re:Proposal requirements (1)

martin-boundary (547041) | more than 5 years ago | (#26428905)

So, there's more than one way to get the grant?

Seriously (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26427643)

I propose:

1) Perl is placed into a paper sack
2) Sack is lit on fire
3) Sack is placed on porch
4) Doorbell is rung
5) Run

Re:Seriously (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26427887)

6)???
7)Profit!

Converter! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26427863)

I don't suppose a program to convert all my Perl programs over to a non-dead-end language is going to get any grant money? :)

Re:Converter! (1)

outZider (165286) | more than 5 years ago | (#26428479)

like?

Re:Converter! (1)

Tom9729 (1134127) | more than 5 years ago | (#26428805)

Since when is Perl dead?

Re:Converter! (2, Funny)

mobby_6kl (668092) | more than 5 years ago | (#26430127)

Perl is not dead, Parrot is. Though I've heard it might in fact be just resting.

Re:Converter! (0, Redundant)

eneville (745111) | more than 5 years ago | (#26431735)

its just pining

Re:Converter! (1)

spartacus_prime (861925) | more than 5 years ago | (#26433089)

no, it's stunned.

I'll get around to it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26427907)

All I need is an irritating little quirk in a shell and some time to smooth out a well-rounded glossy proposal.

House of glue (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26428229)

Perl is the best glue there is. It works on everything. Still, I would not build a house out of glue.

Re:House of glue (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26429539)

Perl is the best glue there is. It works on everything. Still, I would not build a house out of glue.

I thought we were still talking about ponies for a second...

here's a better idea (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26428603)

someone should make a bullshit undocumented language with fucked up syntax and call it "Eels".

then someone else can use it to make a bullshit framework for lazy fucks called Hovercraft.

Guess how many lines it takes in Ruby?

Does that include the lines to take the cock out of your mouth or not?

Greatly exagerated demise (1)

gpmanrpi (548447) | more than 5 years ago | (#26428995)

I think this hackneyed PERL is dead rhetoric is finally starting to annoy me. Is the current development direction moving away from PERL as a language for web development? Absolutely. I find myself using PERL for basic tasks I don't feel like writing code for in say C# or Java because it is annoying to do so and I can do it in a few lines in PERL. So the purpose of the language has changed dramatically and at the same time not at all, since that usage is pretty much at the heart of PERL's origins.
I say then that projects funded should help ensure that this remains the case. So perhaps more database interfaces for DBI. Perhaps a quick search through CPAN for things that have not been updated in a year or so. It might be easy and worth say $3,000 dollars or so to do. Minimal work minor update stuff because Perl6 stuff has moved much of the development for Perl5 into maintenance mode.

Re:Greatly exagerated demise (1)

davegaramond (632107) | more than 5 years ago | (#26431159)

Stop writing Perl as PERL please, it hurts my eye.

Re:Greatly exagerated demise (2, Funny)

Chysn (898420) | more than 5 years ago | (#26432123)

> Stop writing Perl as PERL please, it hurts my eye.

The cyclops has spoken!

you Fail it?! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26429169)

truth, for al Sling, return it to

Worth $500? (2, Funny)

MortenMW (968289) | more than 5 years ago | (#26429733)

#!/usr/local/bin/perl
print "Hello, world!\n";

How much will I get for this?

Finish Perl 6 or give up (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26430711)

The delay in releasing Perl 6 ( shut up with the idiot mantra, "It'll be ready when it's ready" ) has done more to kill off the language than any other factor.

New scripters have taken up Python or Ruby. Old timers have got frustrated at the philosophical debate about what it means to 'release' a language. Some of the people involved with the project appear to be having a bit of a laugh at the expense of the coders who have been using the language. No goals, no milestones. Some airy fairy notion that it will never be complete. The PR job alone has been a total disaster.

It would have been better not to mention Perl 6 until it was ready - haven't you Perl people learnt the lesson about announcing the next product before it is ready for sale and while you still have the old product to shift?

If a stable version of Perl 6 is not released in 2009 then Perl will be left dead in the water. That may already have been the case for some time.

Re:Finish Perl 6 or give up (1)

listening to triplej (813299) | more than 5 years ago | (#26433013)

Complaining about the long wait for Perl 6 is so 2003!

In the mean time the core Perl developers have been busy designing and building the programming language (and runtime environment) of the future.

2009 is the year to start getting excited about Perl 6 again!

For anyone paying attention, things have been really starting to come together in the last year.
- Parrot [parrot.org] is nearing 1.0 production release (in March 2009)!
- Perl 6 on Parrot [rakudo.org] (Rakudo) works and gets new features added every day (see recent note [rakudo.org] saying "now passing 765 more tests than two weeks ago")

There is nothing dead about Perl 6 apart from public opinion (which will change).

TPF grants just reinforce the commitment that is there to push ahead with the vision that is Perl.

Most people may have abandoned Perl for more fashionable languages at the moment, but when there is a shiny new Perl 6, the crowds will return (and Ruby will be looking quite old-skool).

I predict that the extra effort that has gone into designing Perl 6 will pay dividends 10 fold, with the language being a major player for the next 50 year (instead of 5).

Go Perl 6 !!!

Just finish Perl6 fer kreissakes (1)

onlyjoking (536550) | more than 5 years ago | (#26431125)

With Perl6 taking almost a decade to complete it doesn't make sense to waste this small amount of money on anything other than getting Perl6 out the door?

Re:Just finish Perl6 fer kreissakes (3, Informative)

ChrisDolan (24101) | more than 5 years ago | (#26431273)

The primary reason for the longevity of the Perl 6 development effort is shortage of volunteers. To put it harshly, people like you spend their energy complaining instead of helping.

The money is most certainly well-spent on both Perl 5 and Perl 6. I was a Perl Foundation grant recipient to work on Perl::Critic, a static analysis tool and code quality aid. My contributions are making a positive influence to help with the readability, maintainability and portability of large Perl 5 codebases. (read TFA and you'll see my name mentioned) Perl::Critic is being actively used in improving the Parrot codebase.

What have you done to help?

Re:Just finish Perl6 fer kreissakes (1)

cervo (626632) | more than 5 years ago | (#26434033)

I'm going to say that another thing missing is direction from the top. The last time I poked around (admittedly 6 or so months ago) it didn't look like there was a clear path laid out to release. More developers won't fix that. Without someone at the top directing things you have chaos. Not only that, but volunteers will lose motivation after a time. Many are goal oriented and want to see that they are making progress towards a goal.

Re:Just finish Perl6 fer kreissakes (2, Interesting)

chromatic (9471) | more than 5 years ago | (#26435089)

Many are goal oriented and want to see that they are making progress towards a goal.

The Rakudo spectest chart [rakudo.de] has daily updates of exactly that.

The first thing that came to my mind.... (1)

hellstorm (26985) | more than 5 years ago | (#26431525)

when I read this post was the Ministry of Silly Walks and their grants, I don't know why :-P

Real webservices toolkit (2, Insightful)

plurgid (943247) | more than 5 years ago | (#26432125)

What is killing perl (at least at my job) is it's lack of a proper, modern, standards compliant webservices toolkit.

SOAP::Lite is a sorry mess. It's *simply amazing* that it works *at all*. I've tried to scratch that itch to fix it so many times, but the internals of SOAP::Lite are so *incredibly* convoluted, that it's damn near impossible.

Perl needs a completely new SOAP toolkit, with real WSDL support for all the different document modes.

That ONE thing will keep perl entrenched deep in the guts of the corporate world, in the end ... providing all of us perl hackers with job security for years to come.

So ... I've got a pretty steady day job, and no time at night. I already make 6 figgures, and I have a reasonable expectation of employment beyond 1 year.

Surely, there is one of us perlheads out there who is in a position to give a year up to really iron this out in perl. I'd donate even. Like I said, this would be the gift that keeps on giving to the perl community.

Re:Real webservices toolkit (1)

GargamelSpaceman (992546) | more than 5 years ago | (#26434833)

SOAP::Lite IS a sorry mess..

Definately what you say is true about how replacing it with something that actually works would be the gift that keeps giving to Perl.

There are alot of crap perl modules on CPAN with the word SOAP in the title. What a pity, because they do so much damage. A typical perl coder used to glancing at CPAN to see if there is an module available tells his boss, "Yep we can do SOAP," confident in the general high quality of CPAN modules thus far encountered. Then after spending weeks trying to get something to work ( and learning SOAP itself ) he realizes that SOAP::Lite is crap, and so is everything else on CPAN with the word SOAP in the title. CPAN has been the source of almost invariably high quality modules for the whole career of that perl programmer, but now his project is late due to the time required to learn SOAP, and figure out that SOAP::Lite is crap, and the time spent looking for perl alternatives that don't exist, and the time spent trying to fix SOAP::Lite. This programmer doesn't have any free time left to reimplement SOAP::XXX because they are spending all their effort trying to keep their job.

And later when the programmer has some time, they have figured out that SOAP is crap anyway and REST is the way to go for web services. And maybe languages like Perl or Java or Ruby or Python or C# aren't the way of the future for this sort of thing anyway.

Maybe the future will be something more along the lines of Nomadic Pict, or Mozart/Oz or maybe some new experimental linear logic programming language seemingly a perfect fit for exchanging web resources over the internet.

Re:Real webservices toolkit (1)

DaveV1.0 (203135) | more than 5 years ago | (#26435335)

So, make something better.

Proposal (1)

Stormy Dragon (800799) | more than 5 years ago | (#26433283)

Calculate the probability that holding down the shift key and hitting random numbers will produce a valid PERL program.

Open Source Porting (1)

Toad-san (64810) | more than 5 years ago | (#26434067)

I'm asking my sources for pointers to the some nice government-paid-for-it-so-we-own-it-right? Space Shuttle source code. Or some nice ICBM or IRBM or ABM firmware, that would do. Cruise missile? Cell phone GPS? Whatever.

Knock out a quick proposal for porting to perl (if it isn't written in perl already, that is), and off we go!

explain.pl program.pl (1)

nategoose (1004564) | more than 5 years ago | (#26434253)

What's needed is a perl script that reads other perl scripts and explains them to other programmers.
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