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Sun Open Sources the Netscape Enterprise Server

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 5 years ago | from the practical-nostalgia dept.

Sun Microsystems 114

An anonymous reader writes "Brian Aker has announced that Sun has open sourced the Netscape Enterprise Server under the BSD license. This is the evolution of the original server Netscape sold in the '90s during the rise of the first bubble. Almost twenty years later, Apache's original competitor is now made available for anyone to use under an open source license."

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Relevant? (4, Insightful)

bradgoodman (964302) | more than 5 years ago | (#26486227)

Is this even relevant anymore? Does anyone even care?

Re:Relevant? (4, Interesting)

vux984 (928602) | more than 5 years ago | (#26486383)

Is this even relevant anymore? Does anyone even care?

That's what I was thinking too...

I actually used Netscape enterprise server way back when... it did LDAP, email imap/pop, and other stuff too... not just web. It competed, in my opinion more than just Apache.

Its surely seriously outdated code by now in terms of standards supported, etc so its probably not very useful... but who knows... maybe there is something worth looking at in the code. Its certainly not a bad thing that its been open sourced.

Re:Relevant? (4, Insightful)

htnmmo (1454573) | more than 5 years ago | (#26486607)

For those that still use it/need it might have to support it it's good. It's also an important part of internet history.

Re:Relevant? (4, Funny)

afabbro (33948) | more than 5 years ago | (#26486969)

I think about once a week I hit a page that has the Sun logo as its favicon, a telltale sign of NES.

Look for Jonathan Schwartz to write a four-paragraph blog on how this move "leverages the power of our dynamic open source global environmental network" and Sun's "innovation-intensive open ecosystem for defining new architectures and requirements for radical scale, economics and availability" and such.

Also look for Sun's stock price to continue sinking.

Re:Relevant? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26487111)

that favicon isn't a sign of NES, they've also been using it on their Enterprise Java Beans Web Java System Java Products too.

The favicon gets all messed up in IE though. Here's a screenshot of sun's favicon [bergenjers...osures.com] screwed up in ie.

Re:Relevant? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26487269)

NES == JWS (JES) == SunONE == IPlanet

They're all the same thing.

Re:Relevant? (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 5 years ago | (#26488343)

That's weird, IE seems to render it properly within the browser window, but not in the address bar or tab bar... Looks like it renders it on a black background for some reason...
At first glance it looks like a swastika, too.

Re:Relevant? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26491847)

Wait, someone get twitter on this thread.. He knows all about the Swastika/MS conspiracy.

Re:Relevant? (1)

jjrockman (802957) | more than 5 years ago | (#26489147)

That's alot of java!

Re:Relevant? (5, Informative)

tonyr60 (32153) | more than 5 years ago | (#26487917)

This is not the original Netscape code that is being open sourced, it is the current Sun Web server that has its roots in the Netscape Web server. I doubt there is much of the original code left.

what is not clear is that this is just part of Sun's strategy of outsourcing ALL their code. For example the Sun Application server is outsourced as Glassfish, Directory server is OpenDirectory and the SeeBeyond stuff is going into open source components of JavaCAPS.

Interesting the way the licensing is going, earlier outsource efforts were CDDL, then GPL, now BSD. If this keeps up slashdotters are going to have to find another company to bitch about.

Re:Relevant? (1, Interesting)

bberens (965711) | more than 5 years ago | (#26488877)

...If this keeps up slashdotters are going to have to find another company to bitch about.

When I read this I wasn't sure if you meant that Sun had seen the light or that they were going bankrupt.

Re:Relevant? (3, Funny)

RLiegh (247921) | more than 5 years ago | (#26489261)

A little from column 'a', a little from column 'b'...

Re:Relevant? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26489893)

If this keeps up slashdotters are going to have to find another company to bitch about.

Oh sure. Like we're going to start bitching about Microsoft.

Re:Relevant? (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 5 years ago | (#26490309)

outsourcing = sending your job overseas

open sourcing = opening the source

Re:Relevant? (2, Informative)

Nick Ives (317) | more than 5 years ago | (#26490735)

No, outsourcing means using an outside contractor. Most firms outsource cleaning and security, for example. Offshoring is outsourcing overseas. In this case the GP was trying to imply that Sun is outsourcing code maintenance to the OSS community as a way of cutting costs.

Re:Relevant? (5, Informative)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 5 years ago | (#26486613)

LDAP, email imap/pop

Those were different products often bundled as part of a complete Netscape (later IPlanet) solution. Those are now sold as Sun Java System Directory Server Enterprise Edition [sun.com] and Sun Java System Messaging Server [sun.com] , respectively.

And this code isn't the dead version of Netscape Enterprise Server. It's the core to Sun Java System Web Server [sun.com] , yet another piece of the Sun Java Enterprise System [sun.com] .

Make sense? Next order of business, then. May I have a call for all those in favor of firing Sun's marketing department? (Slashdot crash in 3... 2... 1...)

Re:Relevant? (3, Interesting)

codemachine (245871) | more than 5 years ago | (#26487045)

Even Sun's employees seem to be a bit annoyed with the product marketing there:

"Back in the 90's this was the Netscape Enterprise Server, which later morphed into the iPlanet Web Server during the Sun|Netscape Alliance. After some years it was renamed the SunONE Web Server and most recently renamed again to the JES Web Server (Sun just like to keep you confused, thus the constant renaming of the product!)"

Re:Relevant? (2, Funny)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 5 years ago | (#26487157)

You know what I think? I think I didn't put enough emphasis on the word firing . That should have really read, "all those in favor of FIRING Sun's marketing department". Maybe even with a little asterisk that said in bold print, "* As in kicked out on the street, deported from the mainland US, and told they're never going to work in this country again, fired."

I dunno. What do you think?

Re:Relevant? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26487401)

ITYM "Fired. Out of a cannon. Into the sun."

Re:Relevant? (2, Funny)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 5 years ago | (#26487575)

That's exactly what I mean. We've put up with really bad marketing from Sun for too long. So bad that if it were a movie, it would be one of those Lion Gate direct-to-DVD films that is so bad it first wraps around to good, then keeps going to wrap around to "worse than the most horrible atrocity ever committed by Hollywood".

I say we storm Sun and take over the headquarters. Viva la Revolución! :-P

Re:Relevant? (1)

corbettw (214229) | more than 5 years ago | (#26490349)

Hey, at least they stopped those stupid "the dot in dot-com" commercials that tried to pretend they were movie previews. Those things were annoying.

Re:Relevant? (3, Informative)

lgw (121541) | more than 5 years ago | (#26491239)

Well, Sun did actually fire a large chunk of their marketing department about 2 months ago. A third? A half? In any case, they certainly weren't overlooked in Sun's plans to fire 6000.

Re:Relevant? (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#26487611)

I kind of figured you meant "fired out of a space gun" or perhaps more economically "fired out of the torpedo tubes".

Re:Relevant? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26489809)

How about fired in a gas oven, then served to their children so they will never turn to the dark side of marketing themselves?

Re:Relevant? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26487159)

We bought one of their Opteron based servers, and I had to double check it was what we ordered because the box only said SPARC and Java all over it.

I don't know about Sun's marketing people. I have less respect for those that approve of their confusion.

Re:Relevant? (1)

Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) | more than 5 years ago | (#26488921)

But that was Krow. He's special. Used to work here at Slashdot back in the day. Also know as the father of the Drizzle project. He came over in the mysql acquisition. I'm not sure why he asked for BSD, though. That's a bit odd, as he points out it may be the first bsd licensed code to come out of Sun. Maybe he had heard from former customers that wanted to not abide by gpl?

Re:Relevant? (1)

Cramer (69040) | more than 5 years ago | (#26492699)

It's not renaming, it's rebranding. Or as I like to say to marketing minions... calling the same turd by a different name.

Re:Relevant? (1)

arth1 (260657) | more than 5 years ago | (#26492793)

You forgot the original name: Mosaic Netsite [mcom.com]

Mind, it has roots back to NCSA's web server. Rob McCool initially wrote that, and was allowed to take some of the code with him when Mosaic was founded.

Re:Relevant? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26487933)

Aye

Re:Relevant? (1)

CarpetShark (865376) | more than 5 years ago | (#26489411)

Damn. I heard the Sun Directory Service was decent, and so I was excited when I saw this. We certainly seem to need an alternative to redhat's directory service, considering how little uptake there's been from ubuntu, etc.

Re:Relevant? (3, Interesting)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 5 years ago | (#26489685)

*shrug* It works. The admin interface is a little wonky at times, but otherwise nice. Adding LDAP fields is a pain in a half, though. You have to modify the schema file directly and restart the directory server. Not exactly user-friendly.

Personally, I've been keeping my eye on Apache Directory Server [apache.org] . It's modern, it's Java-based, it's easy to setup, it's open source, and it's made by Apache. What more could you want? ;-)

Re:Relevant? (0, Flamebait)

Cramer (69040) | more than 5 years ago | (#26492709)

What more could you want?

Something that isn't written in f'ing JAVA.

Re:Relevant? (4, Insightful)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 5 years ago | (#26494837)

Java software is portable and generally a hell of a lot less painful to setup and configure. (Which I guarantee from experience, Apache DS is much smoother than SJDS.) Believe it or not, there's a hell of a lot of advantages to having your server software written in Java.

If you have a bias against Java, you might want to check it at the door pronto. You're cutting yourself off from some of the best server-side software in the industry.

Re:Relevant? (1)

Sadsfae (242195) | more than 5 years ago | (#26493957)

Personally, I've been keeping my eye on Apache Directory Server [apache.org]. It's modern, it's Java-based, it's easy to setup, it's open source, and it's made by Apache. What more could you want? ;-)

Make it not Java-based?

Re:Relevant? (1)

Fyzzler (1058716) | more than 5 years ago | (#26494005)

Sun One Directory Server and RedHat Directory server come from the same code base.

They are both descended from the original University of Michigan LDAP server.

Which became the Netscape/Iplanet LDAP server.

Having actually used both, they are near 90% identical in look and feel. Even the admin consoles look almost the same.

Re:Relevant? (5, Insightful)

ducomputergeek (595742) | more than 5 years ago | (#26486899)

It can't hurt. As much of pain as it is to operate in mixed environments, we deploy a mix of lighttpd and apache web server for the very reason that even if a major bug or exploit is found in one, about half our front end systems would still be available while the others are being patched.

The more options the better in my book.

Re:Relevant? (1)

cant_get_a_good_nick (172131) | more than 5 years ago | (#26488879)

re:code

remember that the netscape code base forked off where Apache did, from the long dead NCSA webserver. Apache has had a vibrant developer community for years. It's unlikely, though not impossible, that there is code here that is better than what's in apache now.

Of course it will have historical value, but remember this is from the same company and environment that made Netscape Communicator code so bad that, even though wthere was no alternative browser, they though junking the code was better than saving it for Mozilla.

Re:Relevant? (1)

cyberthanasis12 (926691) | more than 5 years ago | (#26494313)

Agreed. But where is the source?

Re:Relevant? (1)

BSAtHome (455370) | more than 5 years ago | (#26486395)

Probably not much, but it never hurts to look for small gems.

Re:Relevant? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26486665)

Well if you happen to find any bugs in Netscape Enterprise 4.1, you might want to tell the CIO of NIST... http://cio.nist.gov/

Re:Relevant? (5, Funny)

truthsearch (249536) | more than 5 years ago | (#26486401)

Nope, it's dead. And this time netcraft really does confirm it [netcraft.com] .

Re:Relevant? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26492055)

I like Netcraft, but I don't trust their stats completely. Once they identified me as running IIS 5 on Linux.

No, I didn't have anything between the server and Internet, I don't know what caused them to come up with that combo.

Re:Relevant? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26486475)

Relevant to what? :P anyways, opensourcing anything can reveal lots of surprising things which you might be able to learn and recall. I'm guessing this is more of an educational/historic release.

Re:Relevant? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26486479)

Yes, large companies like Ford use it and pay lots and lots in fees for the privilege. They also tried to ban opensource within the corporation, with limited success. So for me personally, having been in the battlefield, I'm going to sit back and scoff at the "consultants" in their IT dept that pushed for the OSS ban.

Re:Relevant? (5, Insightful)

athakur999 (44340) | more than 5 years ago | (#26486751)

So we always talk about how companies should open source software that is no longer being maintained or sold... then when a company actually does it, we say "who cares".

Re:Relevant? (0)

BrainInAJar (584756) | more than 5 years ago | (#26488301)

So we always talk about how companies should open source software that is no longer being maintained or sold... then when a company actually does it, we say "who cares".

THIS.

Re:Relevant? (5, Insightful)

ACMENEWSLLC (940904) | more than 5 years ago | (#26488385)

Na, only a few people said who care. I say "Cool, another open source product."

I'll never use as a developer, but another free option is always good. Like someone else said, maybe there is some good code in there. Perhaps projects I do use will benefit from this.

Kudos to Sun.

Re:Relevant? (3, Insightful)

HiThere (15173) | more than 5 years ago | (#26492745)

There are those who say "Who cares?", but there will always be short-sighted ones.

I have no *personal* interest in the Netscape server, but I'm glad that it's open and available. It may someday be crucial, and if not, it's good insurance.

Re:Relevant? - very much so to some (3, Interesting)

ancientt (569920) | more than 5 years ago | (#26494189)

I'm not exactly a fan of the server, but I work in the financial industry and we work with a vendor which provides banking services built on this platform. (Name and version vary.) Whether they will continue to use it or not remains to be seen, but with it open sourced, they have the option to continue to use it and support it to whatever degree they desire where they might otherwise have felt like they were limited to whatever level of support they could get agreed to by Sun. This may make the difference for them between a solid and supportable product and costly development and associated growing pains on a new platform.

Re:Relevant? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26486833)

Anything under the BSD license is irrelevant.

Yes (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26486921)

In case Sun is the holder for patents involved, open sourcing the product also implies that the patents are void / not enforcable (by Sun) anymore. That means, also even the other similar open source products just got a little protection.

Otherwise, as far as a product and the source code goes, it's nothing to be interested about. An abandoned decade old product is not workable anymore, not even after polishing.

Re:Yes (3, Interesting)

bradgoodman (964302) | more than 5 years ago | (#26487043)

open sourcing the product also implies that the patents are void / not enforcable (sic)

Whoa - I dunno about that. Patents and trade-secrets are kind of at opposite ends of the spectrum - you can protect something by hiding it (trade secret) or patenting it, which means fully disclosing it.

Is there specific precedence for OSS-ing something "implicitly" voiding patents?

Re:Yes (3, Informative)

Zordak (123132) | more than 5 years ago | (#26487491)

If you license something under the GPL, you have to provide a license to your patents too. It doesn't void the patent, though.

Re:Yes (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26487835)

What about BSD, which is the applicable license in this case?

Re:Yes (1)

nextekcarl (1402899) | more than 5 years ago | (#26488325)

Well, that would be pretty screwed up if our patent system allowed someone to give something to someone under a license that specifically allows them to sell or transfer or otherwise relicense something without giving them a license to the patents required to do so as well. Wait, is this 2009 and am I still in the US? My bad then. Seriously, that is a good question, and I'd hope that I'm right.

Re:Yes (1)

HiThere (15173) | more than 5 years ago | (#26492765)

CATUION: I AM NOT A LAWYER.

I think the doctrine of latches would apply here. By making the code available under a FOSS license, Sun is implicitly giving authorization to use and distribute it under the terms of that license. It's not as clean as the GPL3, but I think that there's a history of case law that says it works as I've stated. (But, of course, the fact that there's a history of case law implies that many times there have been attempts to not comply with the implied promise.)

Re:Relevant? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26487633)

Yes. Comcast, for example, still uses Netscape Enterprise, and stubbornly refuses to change. They're probably not alone.

Re:Relevant? (4, Interesting)

dedazo (737510) | more than 5 years ago | (#26488175)

As good as Apache is, it could use some competition. Apache also creates a sort of monoculture that is probably not very healthy (especially in conjunction with PHP).

I personally have been moving away from Apache and using lighttpd (and FastCGI) whenever possible with my Python applications.

More choices are always better.

Sun server video (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26486239)

Related video:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VcydqSpYN00 [youtube.com]

tags run wild? (1)

damn_registrars (1103043) | more than 5 years ago | (#26486329)

Can someone explain why this story was tagged 'republicans'?

Re:tags run wild? (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 5 years ago | (#26486673)

It seems like a running gag today/week/month.

Re:tags run wild? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26488299)

People who mistake Obama for a communist are likely not knowledgeable on either.

Damn straight. Socialism != Communism.

Re:tags run wild? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26490929)

Socialism != Communism.

Correct.

Also correct is that Obama's policy proposals are neither.

If you have had enough kool-aid to mistake Obama for either, you need to go back to your 8th grade civics class.

Republicans (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26486337)

Wait, why is the "republicans" tag on every news item?

Re:Republicans (1)

denis-The-menace (471988) | more than 5 years ago | (#26486429)

Because the tag system on /. has been hijacked for month and Taco doesn't see anything wrong with that.

Kudos to Mr. Aker! (5, Informative)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 5 years ago | (#26486361)

Wow. Netscape Enterprise Server. Now there's a name I haven't heard in a long time. I was actually pretty excited about looking at the code to satisfy my historical interest. There's a lot of old Netscape technology that's bitten the dust over the years!

Unfortunately, this appears to be the modern Java Enterprise Server code. There's even Java 1.5 classes to read in modern XML configuration files. I can't find any sign of some of the really interesting stuff from days gone by. (e.g. LiveScript - a technology that was before its time and thus under-implemented compared to what it could have been used for.)

Still, this is a very interesting bit of history and I'd like to thank Sun and Mr. Aker for releasing it! I'm going to dig through the versioning history and see if there's anything in there. Anyone else here find something interesting?

One thing that impresses upon me about this server is how little code their is. Weighing in at only 13 MBs, it's far too small of a project to be of commercial interest today. But back then, this was some pretty big stuff! ;-)

Re:Kudos to Mr. Aker! (1)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 5 years ago | (#26486437)

s/LiveScript/LiveWire/g

Sorry, my memory is a bit rusty on that point. Here's a fun developer's guide to make up for it:

http://docsrv.sco.com/INT_LiveWire/CONTENTS.html [sco.com]

(Can you believe that it's still on SCO's servers? I thought they'd finally divested all of that nasty business of owning assets and whatnot. :-P)

Re:Kudos to Mr. Aker! (5, Funny)

CyberLord Seven (525173) | more than 5 years ago | (#26486995)

Netscape Enterprise Server. Now there's a name I haven't heard in a long time.

Why, oh why, did you have to phrase it like that and trigger the memory?

NCSA Mosaic: Netscape Enterprise Server. Now there's a name I haven't heard in a long, long time.

Luke Spyglass: I heard he died during the Browser Wars.

NCSA Mosaic: Oh, he's not dead. Not yet, anyway.

Luke Spyglass: So, you know him.

NCSA Mosaic: Of course I do. He's me!

From the Slashdot discussion "Browser Wars Declared Over?

April 18, 2007

From Browser Wars IV: A New Hope

by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 18, @01:34PM (#18784983)

Luke Spyglass: "You fought in the browser wars?"

NCSA Mosaic: "I was once a web browser the same as your father."

Luke Spyglass: "My father didn't browse the web. He was a finger server at the community college."

NCSA Mosaic: "That's what your Uncle told you. He didn't hold with your father's ideals. He thought he should stay home. Not gotten involved."

Luke Spyglass: "I wish I had known him."

NCSA Mosaic: "He was a cunning application, and the best downloaded in the galaxy. I understand you've become quite a good downloader yourself. And he was a good friend. For over a thousand days the W3C protected the web. Before the dark times. Before the Empire"

Luke Spyglass: "How did my father die?"

NCSA Mosaic: "A young web browser named Internet Explorer, who was a derivative of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Emporer hunt down and destroy the W3C standards. He betrayed and murdered your father. IE was seduced by the Dark Side of the internet."

Luke Spyglass: "The internet?"

NCSA Mosaic: "Yes, the internet is what gives a web browser his power. It's an energy field created by all connected computers. It surrounds us. Penetrates us. Binds the world together. Which reminds me. Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your Uncle wouldn't allow. He thought you'd follow NCSA Mosaic on some idealistic crusade."

Luke Spyglass: "What is it?"

NCSA Mosaic: "It is open source browser source code. The weapon of a web browser. Not as random or clumsy as a closed source. An elegant idea for a more civilized age."

Re:Kudos to Mr. Aker! (1)

VagaStorm (691999) | more than 5 years ago | (#26491829)

Plz, can we get an option to mod some thing more than +5?

Re:Kudos to Mr. Aker! (2, Funny)

TheSpoom (715771) | more than 5 years ago | (#26493051)

So what does that mean, Samuel L. Jackson had them make him a custom version of Gecko?

Re:Kudos to Mr. Aker! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26498493)

It is a dark time for the Rebellion. Although ActiveX has been destroyed, Imperial software has driven the Rebel forces from their hidden base and pursued them across the web.

Evading the dreaded Imperial IIS Web Server, a group of freedom fighters led by Luke Spyglass have established a new secret base on the remote ice world of SourceForge.

The evil lord Internet Explorer, obsessed with finding young Spyglass, has dispatched thousands of remote probes into the far reaches of the web...

----------------

Yoda SeaMonkey: Stopped they must be; on this all depends. Only a fully trained Web Browser, with the Internet as his ally, will conquer Internet Explorer and his Emperor. If you end your training now - if you choose the quick and easy path as IE did - you will become an agent of evil.

NCSA Mosaic: Patience.

Luke Firefox: And sacrifice W3C standards and cross-platform compatibility?

Yoda SeaMonkey: If you honor what they fight for? Yes.

NCSA Mosaic: If you choose to face Internet Explorer, you will do it alone. I cannot interfere.

Luke Firefox: I understand. R2? Fire up the XUL, add-ons and extensions.

NCSA Mosaic: Firefox! Don't give in to hate. That leads to the Dark Side.

Yoda SeaMonkey: Strong is Internet Explorer. Mind what W3C standards you have learned. Save you it can.

Luke Firefox: I will. And I'll return, I promise.

Re:Kudos to Mr. Aker! (1)

InlawBiker (1124825) | more than 5 years ago | (#26489005)

I was also hit by a sudden wave of nostalgia as I recall the old Netscape web-based admin tool that was actually kind of cool next to the Apache by-hand config file editing back in its heyday.

It was real popular with the corporate clients who would never buy anything without a $xx,xxx support contract attached to their little $18,000 250mhz Sun Netras.

In fact now I want to go scour Ebay for an old Netra or SGI Indigo so I can point it out to the kids and rail on about the good old days, right before I yell at them to get off my lawn.

Re:Kudos to Mr. Aker! (3, Informative)

JyriVirkki (1454743) | more than 5 years ago | (#26492371)

It is indeed the modern Web Server 7.0 code. However, there's more than a tiny bit of lines of code tracing back to the Netscape Enterprise Server. The server itself was never rewritten, it is simply ten+ years of continuous development of the same code (so certainly a lot has changed, but also a lot remains).

I added some more notes about it on my blog here: http://blogs.sun.com/jyrivirkki/entry/more_of_open_sourced_web [sun.com]

So you mean it is still a big bug ridden... (1)

Giant Electronic Bra (1229876) | more than 5 years ago | (#26493035)

festering hunk of bad code? Yippee.

Honestly, Netscape Enterprise Server (in all its incarnations) was one of the worst servers I've ever had to misfortune to develop on and support.

The configuration system was TERRIBLE. The gui was worthless for all but the simplest setups, and if you hand edited ANYTHING (which you were virtually assured to have to do) then using the GUI would cause the whole configuration to become hopelessly corrupt. Worse the server didn't actually do things like CHECK its configuration, it would just operate in a completely erratic fashion.

As if THAT wasn't bad enough the thing NEVER became 100% stable. It was absolutely required to cluster at least 2-3 of these turkeys together to be sure that at least one would make it through any given 24 hour period in decent shape. We had 3 rebooting themselves every day on 8 hour offsets from each other. At least you could HOPE that 2 of them were actually functional at any given moment.

LiveScript was equally a boondoggle. Compared to what else was available at the time (early ASP, CGI scripts) it wasn't TOO bad, but javascript really was NOT up to building any kind of serious app. Just isn't possible to build a really large complex code base using it. I know, I tried...

Finally, the database integration was painful. Informix support kinda sorta worked. Oracle was maybe about 90% of the way there. There was no support for anything else, MAYBE Sybase. But you couldn't call a stored proc or anything beyond basic queries.

Later versions fixed some of the problems, but by the time it got even tolerably usable Apache was already light years ahead.

Searching for sites still using this (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26486745)

Can something like this: http://www.yellowpipe.com/yis/tools/craftnet/

be used to find sites still running on this ancient software? Perhaps people will find an exploitable part of the code and take down an ancient web site!

Scott McNealy: almost twenty years too late .. (1, Funny)

rs232 (849320) | more than 5 years ago | (#26486891)

Same with open sourcing Java, the boat has long left the pier. What sun should concentrate on is making a combined multimedia stack, from the desktop to the server to deliver games and video to the next generation of Internet users. Do a deal with the content owners, the telecom companies and the combined whole could be a massive revenue earner. are you listening, Scott McNealy

Re:Scott McNealy: almost twenty years too late .. (1)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 5 years ago | (#26487049)

almost twenty years too late. are you listening, Scott McNealy

Wow. Talk about being twenty years too late...

P.S. I just got a Wireless printer. No USB required, and no RS-232 port included. Might want to get with the times there, chief. ;-)

Re:Scott McNealy: almost twenty years too late .. (4, Informative)

ishobo (160209) | more than 5 years ago | (#26487863)

You may want to come out of your cave. Jon Schwartz is the CEO and has been for several years.

Re:Scott McNealy: almost twenty years too late .. (0, Troll)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 5 years ago | (#26491925)

more importantly, Sun is dying, and the net finance reports confirm it

Computer History (1)

AtomicJake (795218) | more than 5 years ago | (#26486991)

New courses in fall: Computer History

It's dead - for now (0)

PhasmatisApparatus (1086395) | more than 5 years ago | (#26487081)

I'm certain that someone will come along and make it worth considering. It's happened with every other newly-open-sourced-commercial-product that I can think of.

(plwus one Informative) (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26487317)

Politics openly. dim. Due to the the same operation guys are usually and building is BSD managed to make More grandiose confirmed that *BSD is also a miserable and piss colcktail. over the same just yet, but I'm Website. Mr. de spot when done For volatile world of God, let's fucking by simple fucking been sitting here one Here but now arithmetic, and other party Achieve any of the was after a long dim. Due to the Of FreeBSD Usenet many of us are confirmed that *BSD to llok into to stick something do, or indeed what Slings are limited, Architecture. My learn what mistakes has ground to a erosion of user

mo3 up (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26487403)

sadness And it was lube or we sell The future of the Why not? It's quick head spinning documents like a you're told. It's you all is to let achieve any of the real problems that it a break, if to predict *BSD's BSD style.' In the Distended. AAl I there are BSD sux0rs. What with the laundry Fucking confirmed: development model move any equipment is ingesting for the record, I trouble. It case you want to WORLD WILL HAVE gave the BSD America. You, in jocks or chaps to get some eye the project Bottoms butt. Wipe Been sitting here BSD sux0rs. What Everyday...Redefine distributions systems. The Gay national gay nigger As one of the

I still get a little misty... (3, Interesting)

sootman (158191) | more than 5 years ago | (#26487443)

... whenever I stumble across an old screenshot of Netscape Navigator and next to the URL it says "Netsite" instead of "Location" indicating that the page was being served by a Netscape server.

I totally know what you mean (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26487871)

That makes me moist too

What next? OS/2? (4, Insightful)

netglen (253539) | more than 5 years ago | (#26487447)

Shouldn't this announcement be placed under "too little, too late"?

Re:What next? OS/2? (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26489171)

Too little? Sun in pretty much open sourcing everything it has ever produced, and that's a lot.

Too late? As far as I know, Sun is massive company that manages, among other things, one of the world's most used programming platforms/languages.

Has it's stocks gone down a lot? Sure. It's a shame. But every time I see "too little, too late" I must wonder... WTF

Re:What next? OS/2? (1)

El Lobo (994537) | more than 5 years ago | (#26489791)

When you see a place like where the grand-parent's whining gets moderated Insightful and the parent's logical and reasonable post is ignored, you know you must be on Slashdot.

Mr. Aker seems very confused... (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26487513)

After some years it was renamed the SunONE Web Server and most recently renamed again to the JES Web Server (Sun just like to keep you confused, thus the constant renaming of the product!)

First of all they're not going to open source the entire product but only the webserver core. That is not too surprising considering how Solaris has slowly started to adopt web services for options way beyond your common webserver. I can see that not everyone grasps these tidbits since Sun is indeed a little vague with certain information.

But I think its silly that you assume that SunONE got renamed. SunONE eventually came to an halt and got re-written (the core was basically all which remained) and a new Administrative webinterface was added. The product then became the Sun Java Webserver 7. So SunONE got basically "renamed" (rehauled is a better word IMO) to SJWS. And as to JES; the Sun Java Enterprise System [sun.com] .. That is merely a whole suite consisting of several components. You have your basic webserver, LDAP server, mail server, application server, portal server, and so on.

And guess what ? Instead of re-inventing the wheel all Sun did was basically putting their webserver product into this Java suite. Even SunONE was part of the previous JES suite. So I think that Aker's blog is simply silly and this particular post really isn't worth the attention IMO.

Granted; Sun has done some pretty silly things and their website can indeed be very confusing at times. Just look at the link I added; does this give you the impression that you, as an individualist or a private business, can download and utilize JES free of charge? Those things have always been very confusing with Sun. But their examples and explanation of what a product really is or what it consists of has never been vague. So I think its a little cheap to write something up which you obviously haven't looked into for one second, only to blame Sun because their information would be vague. Thats rubbish IMO.

Caudium, Roxen (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26487763)

One of the best is still Roxen or it's completely free web server version, Caudium. Never ceases to amaze me how little play the product gets when it is so horrifically powerful and has very good performance.

Open source (2, Insightful)

ClosedSource (238333) | more than 5 years ago | (#26488541)

Where all the failed projects go to die.

Perhaps open source projects should be split into two categories (inspired by MIB II):

Old and busted:
Netscape Enterprise Server

New Hotness:
Apache

Re:Open source (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26499001)

You've got to be kidding. Can't you think of any successfull open source project? Well I can think of dozens.

As for Apache vs. Sun Webserver: You obivously have absolutely no idea (and you're not alone here, unfortunately) about this field. You never heared of some Sun Webserver (whatever marketing name it has this week)? Well guess what - it powers internet banking, web page and intranet at my job. It is top enterpise grade web server and kicks Apaches ass in terms of performance and scalability. Way to go Sun! I just wish other companies that bitch all the time about how open source friendly they are (that is IBM, Orcale and even Red Hat) would release at least a fraction of what Sun did release as open source.

Drag that tarball to the recycle bin (2, Interesting)

Fastball (91927) | more than 5 years ago | (#26489557)

...install Apache, and you're done. Time for wings and beer over happy hour.

We spent a lot of money... (2, Informative)

LaissezFaire (582924) | more than 5 years ago | (#26490665)

A company I worked for used NES. I think developer licenses ran about $10k each. Add the annual support and maintenance, and that was some real cash.

So we switched to something cheaper. Looks like we weren't the only ones!

"open source" (2, Funny)

john187 (32291) | more than 5 years ago | (#26490967)

Apparently, "open source" is the new word for "end of life."

Re:"open source" (1)

cpghost (719344) | more than 5 years ago | (#26499589)

Apparently, "open source" is the new word for "end of life."

At least, it helps autopsy [wikipedia.org] .

FRIST sTOP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26491345)

Fro5t piSt (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26491409)

population as well NetBSD posts on comprehensive to deliver what, everyday...We ww.anti-slash.org For membership. The fruitless

becoz sun is dimmed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26492109)

so he has to use the "old" "grand" once-upon-a-time name to re-brand itself.......
coz new thing doesn't give a dime in sales
netscape was the hero.....
sun juz use the dead body
lame

Terrible Summary (3, Informative)

Adidas13 (245348) | more than 5 years ago | (#26493031)

This is the core of the Sun's current Webserver 7. The submitter linked to a blog that described it as Netscape Enterprise Server (it's great-great-grandfather) rather than the blog [sun.com] that clearly points out Sun open sourcing the core of their current Webserver is misleading.

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