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Stimulus Bill Contains Net Neutrality Provision

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the art-of-vagueness-and-obfuscation dept.

Networking 129

visible.frylock writes "Cnet is reporting that the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (PDF), currently in the House Appropriations Committee, contains Net Neutrality provisions: 'The so-called stimulus package hands out billions of dollars in grants for broadband and wireless development, primarily in what are called "unserved" and "underserved" areas. ... The catch is that the federal largesse comes with Net neutrality strings attached. ... recipients must operate broadband and high-speed wireless networks on an "open access basis." The FCC, soon to be under Democratic control, is charged with deciding what that means. Congress didn't see fit to include a definition.' The broadband grants appear to begin in SEC. 3101 (pg. 49) of the PDF."

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FIRST (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26496255)


Re:FIRST (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26496265)


Yes that's right, THINK ABOUT YOUR BREATHING. Why you might ask? Well it's simple!

Your brain usually takes care of breathing FOR you, but whenever you remember this, YOU MUST MANUALLY BREATH! If you don't you will DIE.

There are also MANY variations of this. For example, think about:





In conclusion, the THINK ABOUT YOUR BREATHING troll is simply unbeatable. These 4 words can be thrown randomly into article text trolls, into sigs, into anything, and once seen, WILL FORCE THE VICTIM TO TAKE CARE OF HIS BREATHING MANUALLY! This goes far beyond the simple annoying or insulting trolls of yesteryear.

In fact, by EVEN RESPONDING to this troll, you are proving that IT HAS CLAIMED ANOTHER VICTIM -- YOU!

This bill is wrong (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26496419)

It's against God's wishes and anybody who supports it is a communist who is full of baloney, much like this bill.

Re:This bill is wrong (1)

anonieuweling (536832) | more than 5 years ago | (#26497349)

`Communist` said the ex-capitalist and he nationalized a few banks. More businesses to follow.

Re:FIRST (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26496309)

  • The K in KDE stands for Krap.
  • Why would I want a desktop with a smelly foot on it?
  • Linux has below average SMP support.
  • My BSD machines have much better uptimes and stability than my Linux machines.
  • Object-oriented programming is difficult to use and doesn't increase productivity.
  • Open source software has poorer levels of QA than proprietary solutions.
  • Python scales up for large projects better than Perl.
  • IPv6 adds too much new overhead to be viable.

Open Access (3, Funny)

DemoLiter3 (704469) | more than 5 years ago | (#26496437)

I don't get it... How operating all wireless networks in unencrypted, unauthenticated mode is supposed to provide Net Neutrality?

Re:Open Access (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26496449)

The question I have for Obama is this: Who is stimulating the economy? Me, the guy who has provided 14 people good paying jobs and serves over 200,000 people per year with a flourishing business? Or, the single fat colored mammy sitting at home pregnant with her fourth child waiting for her next welfare check?

And as far as Net Neutrality goes, I'm sure B. Hussein Obama doesn't give a rat's ass. For my part, I give Net Neutrality two thumbs up.

Re:Open Access (0, Offtopic)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 5 years ago | (#26496633)

Not only are you racist but you're repetitive.


Re:Open Access (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26496685)

Don't like it?

  • Don't read it
  • Don't respond to it

Re:Open Access (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26496733)

Maybe ignorant hicks like you can just bury your heads in the sand, the rest of us will revitalize this country, it's economy and its promises to future generations. We'll be more than happy to leave people like you behind.

Re:Open Access (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26496749)

Who told you I was the same person? If you want trolls to go away, ignore them. It's that simple.

Re:Open Access (0, Troll)

Republican Gun (1174953) | more than 5 years ago | (#26496783)

The future generations you speak of are already in debt to the Chinese government to the tune of %25 of the US Debt. Your Obama Economy is just promises like you said. The reason someone like Ross Perot lost a Presidential election is because he told the truth. He said NAFTA(a treaty; so it is not subject to the Supreme Court) would be a great sucking sound of all the jobs leaving the US. Fast forward to today where a man used lies and promises to get elected you get what is now the United 'Redlined' States of America. No good jewish bank will lend to a black man or his country.

Re:Open Access (1)

bigblacknigger (1440657) | more than 5 years ago | (#26496813)

Listen to da man, Sambo, he has a point: Jews hate niggers.

Copypasta? (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 5 years ago | (#26496987)

This is the third or fourth time I've seen this troll. At what point can it just be added to the lameness filter and be done with it?

Here's a hint (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26497061)

GNAA Announces Project to Port Slashcode to ASP.NET
GNAA Announces Project to Port Slashcode to ASP.NET

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"We've had our difference with Slashdot in the past," godspeed began, "but with recent slowdowns in performance on the website, they have finally realized that Opensource is indeed dead, and it's time to move on and replace their antiquated codebase with something that will meet the modern day's needs. We're pleased to be given the opportunity to work with the Slashdot staff on making this port. Of course, the new code will not be opensourced, an NDA will be signed in blood by all who see it and if you release it, the penalty... well, you've seen what happened to Nick Berg, Paul Johnson, and the others. Major changes to be implemented include the removal of goatse link evasion, major overhauls to the karma system, and the replacement of pinkpages with LastMeasure [] ,"

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bare, a GNAA member sitting in the audience, stood up and confirmed this announcement with a hearty "LOL." goat-see concluded the conference at that point, saying "If you have any further questions, please direct them to new GNAA member Wil Wheaton [mailto] , now let's all go outside and poke that fat fuck CowboyNeal with sticks."

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| _______a_._______a_______aj#0s_____aWY!400.___ | Gary Niger
| __ad#7!!*P____a.d#0a____#!-_#0i___.#!__W#0#___ | [mailto]
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| _"#ga#9!01___"#01__40,_"4Lj#!_4#g_________"01_ | 143 Rolloffle Avenue
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| _________#1__________?________________________ |
| _________j1___________________________________ | All other inquiries:
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| ______-"!^____________________________________ | GNAA World Headquarters
` _______________________________________________' 160-0023 Japan Tokyo-to Shinjuku-ku Nishi-Shinjuku 3-20-2

Copyright (c) 2003-2004 GNAA []

You and your two party system (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26496333)

First of all, I do not live in America (in neither meaning of the word) so I might be a bit off on details but...

This "FCC will soon be under democratic control" boggles me. In this context I assume it means that it will be led by the democrats (instead of democracic as in having the public vote on all issues).

But that doesn't really tell anything. There are people on both sides of the net neutrality issue who have different opinions of (foreign) policy, economy, Iraq situation, etc... I, having not followed USA inner politcs very closely, would think that net neutrality is hardly among biggest dividers between democrats and republicans.

So does this tell anything about it or is it relevant at all? I am not saying that it isn't but honestly wondering if it is...

I know that here we could tell a lot based on will some issue like this be controlled by the Green party, the Left party, the Pirate Party, the Socialist Democrats, our major right wing party, another right wing party concentrating mostly on countryside issues, or any else of the political parties...

Re:You and your two party system (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26496363)

I'm glad I don't have a whole country full of deceitful, greedy kikes [] stealing all my water and land anywhere near me. Fucking Jews [] can't just live in peace. They have to steal other people's land. Our [] national economy is collapsing from the Jew [] banks doing their usual Jew [] thing. You see, with Jews [] , you lose. That's how THEY win. They WIN by making YOU lose. So let's lose the Jews [] .

Global warming could be swiftly solved if we incinerated all of the Jews [] . Their ashes would be ejected into the upper atmosphere, where they would block some sunlight from hitting the earth. The economy would improve thanks to the absence of Jewish [] predatory lending, and it would buy us time to deal with climate change. Two birds, one stone.

Fun with Facts:

  • Isreal [] has a Jewish population of 5,309,000.
  • America [] has a Jewish [] population of 5,275,000.

Guess who really owns America [] ? Hint hint, it isn't the Americans [] .

Re:You and your two party system (1, Interesting)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#26496475)

This "FCC will soon be under democratic control" boggles me. In this context I assume it means that it will be led by the democrats (instead of democracic as in having the public vote on all issues).

Yes, that is it precisely. The Republicans have appointed one corrupt bastard after another, perhaps the most corrupt of which was Michael Powell, son of Colin Powell, who helped run the travesty that was the Gulf War. So long, and thanks for all the DPU.

Being a particularly pessimistic sarcast who has lived in the USA all his life my impression of the difference between the two parties is that the democrats are the tax-and-spend party, and the republicans are the tax-cut-and-spend party. I leave it as an exercise to the reader to decide which position is more fatally flawed.

Regardless, this is a bill about spending money on internet access for the currently disenfranchised, and the democrats like to spend money on looking like they care about such things, so perhaps the combination means that it will happen and it will actually produce some tangible benefit to citizens.

Re:You and your two party system (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26496487)

Stud dogs go about the whole sex thing rather differently than primates (or equines). Unlike us, male canines don't have an orgasm that involves a short, intense ejaculation. Instead, once they have become fully erect, they will have a continuous orgasm for from 10 to 45 minutes or longer. The "standard" procedure for dogs, when they are mating, is that the male "ties" with the bitch - which means that, after he has penetrated fully, his penis will develop a knot at its base that is several times wider than the rest of his shaft.

For reference, a 80 pound Golden stud dog might have, let's say, a cock that is 7 or 8 inches long when erect - but his knot will be at least as big around as a tennis ball. This knot swells inside the bitch, and so long as he remains erect the dogs are "tied." No, this isn't painful for her - canine females long ago developed an entire set of muscular supports for this process. Generally, once they are tied, most stud dogs prefer to step off and over, so he and the bitch are tail-to-tail. Theories abound on why this evolved - I have yet to see one that was truly convincing. Anyway, they'll stand like this, with the male having a continuous orgasm during the whole tie - until he starts to shrink and they pop apart. Bitches also have orgasms, and she'll likely have quite a few during the tie, as well - research has shown that her orgasms are essential to increasing the chances of pregnancy, due to muscular contractions.

Anyway. if a guy like me has a stud dog partner, one form of intimacy is for him to tie with us, anally. As young teenagers, many of us learned the hard way about the knot, and the tie - particularly back in pre-interweb days. So we'd suddenly find ourselves locked together, with this tennis-ball width cock inside us. Nowadays, I suspect most young zoos know all about this. However, some folks still have eyes bigger than their stomach, err their you-know-what.

It would not be accurate to say that I have a stream of visitors who show up at my house just for sex with my canine partners. However, it is true that I do not exercise any sort of unilateral control/ownership over the relationships my canine boys might develop with other people - they are adults, and if they desire to get frisky with another two-legger and I judge that the person is respectful and unlikely to do anything mean or stupid, I have no moral ground on which to say "oh, no, you aren't allowed - he can only have sex with me." That just makes no sense, so if there's a time when a friend is visiting and there's a spark between them and one of my partners, I'm ok with that. In truth, I think it's great to have the boys' enjoy other positive relationships and I love to see them happy, whatever the circumstances.

Many years ago, my friend Commander Taco was visiting - a zoo who had been active with his own stud dog for quite a few years. His boy was a breed that is not small, but is also somewhat known by old-school zoos as being, well, on average not so well-endowed relative to their body size. This friend had tied with his partner on a number of occasions - and he often talked about how intense and rewarding the experience was, for both of them. That's great, I said - while thinking that he'd probably not fare so well with a larger breed.

As it turns out, Taco and one of my canine friends hit it off quite clearly right from the get-go - the chemistry was there and the two of them seemed like they'd known each other for ages. After several visits, I could see that they were sort of getting closer and closer - my friend Taco was worried that I'd feel he was somehow intruding into my relationship with this handsome stud dog - who had been in my own family for close to a decade. Of course not, I told him - if you guys hit it off and things get steamy, I'd hardly throw cold water on it just so I can be all possessive and insecure. HOWEVER, I warned him, that handsome boy with whom you're making goo-goo eyes is much bigger than your own long-time partner.

I tried to be nice about this, but some zoos get their nose out of joint if you suggest their beloved might not be the most-endowed canine (or equine, or whatever) around. Taco was a bit like that - and right off the bat tried to convince me his boy was "really quite large for his body size," and who was I to argue? I did warn him that the stud dog he was considering, in my family, was somewhat over-endowed for his body size - and he was in the range of 120 pounds of low-bodyfat muscle. Beh, my friend said, no problem - I know what I'm doing. . .

Later that evening, after I'd gone to bed, I woke to the sound of toenails on the hardwood floor. There was also a bit of panting, a giggle here and there - not hard to figure out what was going on. Feeling a sense of impending doom, I made my presence known and sort of lurked in the background, sitting on the sofa and enjoying the huge, nearly-full moon casting shadows on the farm. The two boys were doing some sort of foreplay - it seemed cute to me, but I did (once again) warn Taco that this particular stud dog was also rather aggressive in his breeding - he'd sired many litters of wonderful pups, in his own career, and knew quite well how to get a proper tie with even inexperienced or skittish bitches. Yeah, yeah - my Taco was clearly not thinking with the had between his shoulders, but the one between his legs.

In a flash, the big stud dog was mounted on Taco - and this time he wasn't just going through the motions, or playing. In just a few thrusts, he was inside - and with all that muscle, he held himself tight as he began to swell. It doesn't take long - maybe 20 seconds. I'm still watching, from the sofa, somewhere between shocked and bemused. For the first ten seconds or so, Taco is quiet and still as a winter night - not a sound save the deep grunting from my stud dog as he was swelling with each heartbeat.

Then, reality started to intrude (pun intended). Commander Taco started to make this sort of whimpering sound - no words, just a low moan. Too late to turn back, I knew, so I held my tongue. Then, as my stud dog really began to take on his full size (which I knew from years of firsthand enjoyment was just under 10 inches in length with a knot just shy of softball size), my two-legged friend began to realize the error of his ways. This stud dog was, quite likely, at least double the width of his normal canine partner - and 3 or 4 inches longer. And, as reality is dawning on him, each heartbeat is causing the cock inside him to get bigger. . . and bigger. . . and bigger.

By now, Taco's positively crying - literally crying like a baby. No words, just sort of a quiet blubbering. He's smart enough to know there's no backing out now - and he didn't try anything stupid like pulling loose (which can, indeed, cause massive rectal tearing if done in haste - trust me, not fun). At this point my canine friend casually steps off from the usual "doggie style" position and, with years of practice, adjusts himself into the butt-to-butt position. And to add insult to (literal) injury, my canine friend has now plastered an absolutely massive grin on his face - when we say "shit-eating grin," this is it He's having the time of his life, tied with a new friend he's met, just starting into an orgasm that will go on for nearly 20 minutes. Not only does he not really know that his **** buddy is feeling like someone's put the better part of a baseball bat up his ass. . . I'm quite sure he doesn't care.

Just for good measure, I took a photo of the gigantic smile on the stud dog's face - nothing more than that, just his face and the grin to end all grins. Click.

My two-legged friend Taco is now officially gibbering - it's really a verb, I didn't know that before just then. He's somehow begging for it to "stop, oh please stop" - but every now and then there's an "oh god oh GOD he's amazing" thrown in, before he's back to "oh PLEASE make it stop OOOH stop stop stop." This goes on, as is par for the course, for just shy of 20 minutes, at which point my stud dog friend begins to subside, pops free (with a characteristically loud and gushing dis-connection), and lies down to clean himself up and help his cock back into its sheath.

In contrast, my two-legged friend has simply fallen over, and curled up into a fetal ball. Well, I think to myself, I don't see any blood. . . oh, wait, I do see blood, but not really that much so it's probably ok. I get him a blanket and try to offer kindness without intruding on his pain, and to be honest without s******ing. The words "I told you so" are hovering out there, but need not be spoken at that somewhat awkward time. I do ask: "are you going to be ok, or should we head to hospital?" In between ragged breaths, he responds "no hospital, not going to die" - and indeed my own judgment is that he's far from dying, though he may feel like that would be preferable to the pain he's in.

I get him a blanket, and a pillow and get him comfortable right there on the hardwood floor of the kitchen. And our canine Casanova? Well he's cleaned up, wandered over to give a big, wet, shameless kiss to his worse-for-the-wear sexual partner and he's already asleep on the sofa, snoring - with grin still present on his face. Remorse? Regret? Not a chance!

The next day, I was impressed to see that my guest was up and at the kitchen table, with his well-endowed playmate from the previous night sharing a dish of eggs and toast, when I came downstairs with the rest of the canine crew. Impressed, that is, until I noticed he wasn't in any rush to get up from the table - ever. Turns out, Taco had indeed suffered some serious internal bruising - in a few days, the discoloration has spread from his lower back (which still makes me laugh, sorry, because I can visualize exactly how far in that cock had gone and, sure enough, that's where the bruise mellows out - a good bit of the way up his back and towards his ribs) down his legs, and clear to his ankles. Both legs. It's spectacular. He's walking like a rehabbed accident victim for several days, and for weeks afterwards he looks as if he'd ridden a horse for too long (again, laughing as I type). It was more than a month before he'd healed up more or less ok, and even then I'd see him wince if he bent down too quickly.

Is it wrong for me to think this is funny? If it is, so be it - it's ****ing funny. The transformation from swaggering "oh I can take that big boy, I know what I'm doing" to hunched-over victim of a mind-expanding lesson in what "big" means when applied to stud dogs - all in the blink of an eye. Yes, it's definitely funny.

Of course, in those early weeks, he promised me he would NEVER do something like that again - NEVER tie with a dog bigger than his own long-term partner. And, he asked me with genuine indignation, how could I keep tying with that dog who had torn him up so badly? Didn't I know the danger I was in? I responded, casually, that I appreciated his concerns but, to put perspective on things he should remember that his dog compared to that stud dog who tore him up so badly, in terms of relative size, the same way that the tearer-upper compared to my Dane partner at the time. His eyes grew wide - comprehension dawned. . . "you don't tie with that monster, do you?" I glanced over at my beloved Dane who, looking up at me, thumped his tail a few times in flagrant collusion with my own thoughts. "Who, me? Tie with that massive dog? Now what kind of crazy fool would do such a thing?"

Re:You and your two party system (3, Funny)

frieko (855745) | more than 5 years ago | (#26497327)

You're correct, the correct phrase is 'under Democrat control'. 'under Democratic control' is just as wrong as 'under Republic control'

In any case, in the American system there are for all practical purposes only two parties. There are things they both agree on (increasing spending) and things that are strictly divided along party lines (reproductive rights), and practically nothing that's a gray area.

If that sounds absurd to you, then now you know why we all just vote for the tallest candidate and go back to drinking beer.

Is local politics any different? (2, Interesting)

jesterzog (189797) | more than 5 years ago | (#26501025)

I know you're being satirical (probably justified), but are more local politics, such as at the state level, any less absurd? Overseas we don't hear about much other than US federal politics.

I've never lived in the US, but it seems like a huge government compared with many, and in many ways I can appreciate why there are so many people who don't bother voting. Especially when I compare it with what I'm used to in New Zealand, where the government represents 4 million people, and I guess that's more similar on scale to the population of a typical US state. Personally I think it works okay (opinions vary) and you're never really too far away from other voters or hearing about issues that other people think are important.

If I had a vote for a government of about 300+ million people, though, I'm not sure I could be bothered because it'd just be too hard to fully comprehend how I fitted in with everyone else. My own vote would be irrelevant because it'd be completely outweighed by people voting because of issues I hadn't even heard of, let alone understood. From the outside, it sounds as if the EU's moving in that direction, too, with a government that's extensive enough to be good for the economy, but too huge for many people to care about or perceive themselves as having the slightest bit of significance in its operation.

Correct me if necessary, but my understanding was that the USA was formed with the understanding that the federal government was always supposed to be fairly minimalist, with individual states having a lot of independence to choose how to govern themselves. How and when did this change? Was it all during WW2 or something like that, or has it been more of a slippery slope?

Re:Is local politics any different? (2, Insightful)

alzoron (210577) | more than 5 years ago | (#26502049)

Correct me if necessary, but my understanding was that the USA was formed with the understanding that the federal government was always supposed to be fairly minimalist, with individual states having a lot of independence to choose how to govern themselves. How and when did this change? Was it all during WW2 or something like that, or has it been more of a slippery slope?

I'd have to say it all started going downhill with John Adams. The Naturalization Act, Alien Act, Alien Enemies Act, and the Sedition Act. What a wonderful start we got off too, couldn't even make it 10 years before the corruption started.

Re:Is local politics any different? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26502475)

In theory, individual states are supposed to have a lot of independence. In practice, loose interpretations of the Commerce Clause and the Equal Protection Clause have federalized most of the important issues.

As for when this changed, there have been a few landmark events:

(1) The Civil War (1861-1865), which was won by the anti-secessionists. And that side also happened to be the anti-slavery side, so from then on "states' rights" advocates became viewed as racist.

(2) The introduction of the federal income tax in 1913.

(3) Direct election of Senators, which denied state legislatures a voice in the federal government.

(4) The New Deal, in which the FDR's administration greatly expanded the federal government in the name of stopping the Depression.

(5) And then right afterwards we got into WW2.

I agree with you that 300 million people is too big for a democracy. I don't feel very represented in my Congressional district. Not when there are nearly 700,000 other people in it. Not when I'm not a member of the race for which this district was gerrymandered.

Re:You and your two party system (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26500381)

The problem is that, even among politicians, nobody gives a damn about the FCC, just like before Katrina nobody gave a damn about FEMA. It's a place to stick your loyal political cronies because they have no real-world influence whatsoever.

Until they do.

Luckily Obama seems to actually give a shit about technology. We'll see what this actually translates to.

Linux (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26496339)

What is it about Linux that makes its users neglect showering and proper hygiene?

Sounds Great (4, Interesting)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 5 years ago | (#26496349)

I live in Lake county, California and this would be a fantastic environment for WiMax. We have a volcano (dormant... heh heh) in the middle of the county upon which we already have a radio shack, and I don't mean the store. I helped my pop insulate it when I was a kid. We have a capture-and-rebroadcast system here called LCTV, and I believe Edge (now part of the evil empire) has a tower up there as well (maybe AT&T has some of their own stuff up there too.) There is good road access, so it would be relatively trivial to truck a small shipping container and some building materials up there, and there is far more than sufficient exposure for combo solar/wind power to run the system. If this bill goes through before I move out of here, I may have to start tapping some connections and see if I can finally get a working last mile solution up in here.

Re:Sounds Great (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26496371)

January 15, 2009

Steve Jobs plans "most unique" death ever
AIDS demise to have innovative interface

CUPERTINO, California (NNN) - Steve Jobs, the polymath CEO and star evangelist of Apple Computer, Inc., publically announced a medical leave of absence from the company, but in private promised "the best AIDS death ever" from the affliction no one will publically recognize he has.

As HIV-positive test results leaked onto the web from the last five years of Jobs' fight for health and secrecy, former lovers raced to the clinics on Segways looking for solace. Unflappable as always, Jobs vowed to make the best of the situation.

"There's AIDS deaths, and then there's AIDS deaths," Jobs said in his strident baritone with a slightly ironic lisp. "As with all Apple products, my demise from pneumonia brought on by full-blown AIDS will be poignant, witty, ironic, aesthetically pleasing and have an interface that breaks new ground for the industry."

Turning to a reporter he said, "That's off the record. Officially, my hormones are unbalanced because I did not care enough about Darfur." On the news of Jobs' leave, Apple stock plunged $7.38 as people feared the cool had left their Macs, but then rebounded by almost four points once rumors of HIV-death leaked.

"If Christ were to die today, he'd die of AIDS," said Jared Hvitles, who has owned four Macs, three iPods, an iPhone and a Steve Jobs Picking Up a Quarter blow-up doll. "He's going out like he's lived, as a Christ for the new millenium -- with a better interface."

About ANUS:

The American Nihilist Underground Society advocates nihilism, or a removal of interpretive layers from our perception of physical reality, as a means of transcending illusion. Nihilism denies value and purpose, which are byproducts of the human desire to judge reality and make a consensual "social reality" that by seizing on a single material factor misses the intelligible, or design-based, knowledge we need to adapt to reality. ANUS has been promoting nihilism since 1987. []

About Nihilism:

Nihilism is the belief that nothing we perceive has Absolute value; reality exists, but beyond its inherent meaning to us as the physical container of our existence, it has no significance outside of what we perceive. "The world is my representation," indeed. When we strip away all of the values projected onto physical reality and its outcomes, we are left only with personal ideal and natural ideal, and bringing the former into adaptation with the latter is the lifetime task to which nihilism is a gateway. []

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Fuck ANUS! GNAA4lyfe (-1, Troll)

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called. And Sarai was circumcised in the children and the whole land of the earth. And Joseph day of his tent, and stood upright as he had made; and her to pass after his master came to pass at the people of Pharaoh surely hired thee into the money of the first is in male among the woman that have borne children of Pharaoh's, the Hebrews: and the kings of the house, Bring forth the children, or from before you; and his name of Noah, and from Pharaoh, and what good or not. And the first-born said unto them, saying, What is the seven years. And Cain said unto her to pass, as one that moveth upon them: and these are mine; Ephraim before him as his dreams. And in his place. And other brother the sons of the greatness of heaven, and behold now, do unto Abraham, and he said, Behold, I will destroy from their ponds of Israel took stones, and went to them, Sing ye are beaten; but give it was called Zoar. So the father seven days of Milcah, she had not cast her pitcher to shear his own people. But he put our money. And the integrity of Pharaoh said one from thy son Joseph laid up in the land perish not in: so unto Jehovah, until he said to Ephron the book of all the king of any beast of God, who shall die. And Jacob their anger was good. And God hath let the mother made Jehovah called the children of Israel, that was brought in their kind, and all the selfsame day, to dwell in thy father, Let me word of Admah, and brake every creeping thing also, O Lord, I know not one. And by the same is like the money is Kadesh), and the river; and there was left, and said unto all the lad where they blessed of fire, and Shelah begat Enosh: and said unto him. And Noah awoke from thence to him, Who would have ye that is escaped, and Zillah, hear me, Aner, Eshcol, and go down; for the woman said unto thy servants, that I have seen the younger son, Enoch. And also the land of Pharaoh, and he shall bring them away. Until thy voice to his work; and Zibeon the God Almighty bless her, Let the city. And their city, and men-servants, and Adbeel, and for an ordinance for thy children, Rachel was none that which thou shalt thou seest my sister. And he hath taken the people go, that I establish with her father hither. Send me word of Abram's wife; and well favored. And Jacob asked him, Behold, Rebekah said unto me, the enemy. And we dreamed a river went down into the one portion above the generations of the Egyptians shall help meet him, a good ears of Gerar sent, and go and it remain until the king of Shinar, Arioch king over all his host of Egypt, and we shall come to him, then is how then hast said. And he said, The water from the sea; there is this day. And Moses said, O my master, and hail; and by her. And Laban went throughout your herds, as he them, shall eat thy dead. But he bought with me, even me at the frogs shall not when the heavens, and all the bow down unto thee before him also and thee. Bury thy father Isaac, she conceived again, buy grain, and that our brother is what ye shall know that were on my people, Remember this day, and for venison, and honey. And they might dwell together: for in the Arkite, and he refused to pass after them: and it was hardened, and let one that he had they were gone out of Paddan-aram, to Esau said, Lest I have sorely grieved him as ye may know that she said to be for the womb, being a golden ring of flies upon me, and builded an abomination unto the week of the dove; and it came out of the earth; that thou didst thou sent them away; but every living thing which I fear of the earth was Avith. And Moses said unto him. And the father revived: and it shall dine with this thing, he and perform the earth. These are spies; to me, what can I hid his father answered Abraham for with him, If it that she returned to pass, when he hath also the Jordan. And again as they brought it shall ye shall be, when he seeth the whole assembly of the fish that he hearkened all that God of the years old age, an everlasting covenant, I have I have their bondage, and came in this day that are men, and told thee exceedingly. And she saw Benjamin his brother Benjamin, Dan and lie with its kind, and thy sight, and honey. And arise, I given them households. And the herb of many colors. And said, Who would not one. Oh that the children of Egypt. And the Egyptians beheld the fruit thereof, and rose upon the morrow; and of the land which were of my son? And Zilpah Leah's tent, but go unto Seir. And she said, I may bless me good speed. And the name of ashes of mind that was a son Joseph, and took to Joseph, who went to her. And he also heard the sons and full price let the great work be for ever. And Joseph took Sarai his stead. And they contended with thee this day of the houses of the Korahites. And Hamor and my blessing. And the earth. And he went down the camp of Egypt for the land of Aner; and over the earth, and Gomorrah and said, I am Jehovah, when he knew it, and for a field was near; for the field unto Pharaoh. My lord of our father. And Abraham took him. And after him. And Hagar bare, Ishmael. sun and the sight of the chiefs that thou in, and God is my voice, and Put, and into the greater than Leah, and sent over against his wife; and Joseph spake unto the flesh for that which I will be fruitful, and cattle, and it came to tell me. Now therefore behold now, I will draw for bruising me: and Ahuzzath his brethren, I hid him a possession of half over this way upon them, Know of sheep of the morning that we may set him before Baal-zephon: over the people. And Israel strengthened himself, and if thou shalt say of Amminadab, the field; upon Manasseh's head. And he poured out of Leah: the Hittite, which he charged all the tenor of heaven. And he placed at Beer-sheba. And Jehovah exceedingly. And Sarah died in the land which thou set three years old man, the land of his father said unto me? Whereas thou found the ground. Moreover the heap. And of it; and carried away from Isaac did he. And they rose up also of bricks. And she called for ye touch it, and for he had spoken. And Reuben returned to wife again; and it done this thou mayest know that they brought not suffer the magicians, and blessed him. And the man and of Israel were nine hundred eighty and Moses sprinkled it to Isaac, Go ye, Moses was a very sore, so now, I am a son; and herds, and unto you: this condition will bless me. For all the bracelets upon Pharaoh, and [of years], and Benjamin, Joseph's master Abraham, and called Joseph, See, he will not circumcised in a wife for me also. And Jehovah shall come to give it. And he man. And the land of the Egyptians wept upon man, and said, God ascending and he ran down in the Canaanite, and shalt speak unto Jacob held his heart was called Abel-mizraim, which is Beth-el), he commanded him: if it time send me happy: and bring forth the waters decreased continually until the Plain; escape to Tamar thy face: and he came to pass, when shall be witness, and he left in the fat of Egypt, to bow down themselves unto the Egyptians wept for the children of Enaim, which was circumcised in from her forth, and bring out from thee, and an oath which thing is with my father of his head, and the flock and I am but one another, We are three baskets of Gilead. And God hath devoured our daughter, and Lot the Philistines many days, and she ran to wife: and said, I with me: arise, I will I am not so discreet and blessed me, and said unto them, as it up out first. And Terah a hand: and whatsoever the chiefs of life; and that she hasted, and we sacrifice in the mourning for food; the souls that he cometh round; and, lo, shall be gone; and they spread abroad throughout the Egyptians made me happy: and of the Arvadite, and went his master's brethren. And Samlah of Jacob said, Lest he had, and he gave to the earth, that are the land stank. But the woman said to die. And Abraham went toward all the land that is good ears are the daughters that it on their flocks, and the father revived: and he gave the border shall a burying-place with the chief Iram: these are sunk in whose name of Reuel the earth. As for a haven of Jacob went in thy dwelling, And take of Sarah. And Moses and thou hast thou thus with timbrels and he begat Shelah four hundred ewes and then will send them on the sea covered the moon and his days were sons of the ark shalt take up in bondage; and water at even as any wise men stood upon the word of Laban gave them out of Pharaoh called his tongue, against them that thou comest to thy son's son. And we have done to meet thee: when his brethren, This one to Isaac, O Jehovah, and that night, he commanded the land, and the staff. And her in thy dead. And she said, This is uncircumcised; for us, Make ready quickly three days. And he said, [This shall eat the earth, wherein there shall not pass the handmaids came to drink; and Izhar, and shall be thy father, Let me to the servant my hand of Israel sighed by themselves, and whatsoever God of Ham, the earth. And they baked food of every herb have ye speak thou shalt come, say [They are] thy first-born, was content to the one plague more for that he sent and eighteen, and over against the land of their dwellings. And Joseph with child for the daughter Dinah: all the name of heaven, And Isaac spake unto his spirit of the sweet savor; and his pre-eminence; Because she called he said, Thou shalt carry up the captain of Egypt; and Simeon, and if thou hast: and he became surety she said, I have made room for me not, Abram: I am thy sight, hear me. And his household, and bring out of her in Haran. Now these are among the two years, and Lot was no plague more subtle than all their cattle of silver, and herds with child, and also was in his son of the waters, and he took their land. And the land. Now therefore, and cattle, and Eldaah. All the seven lean and all that were at the seven years, and go to meet for he had dwelt in mind. And Moses was fourscore years of Goshen, in the chiefs of Jehovah appeared unto Dinah their welfare, and said, Behold, Esau his son, then bare Enoch: and when Abraham's servant. God made earth in the river is one. And it shall not found him, Take heed to thy cord, and evil. And in thy daughters to pass, when there an end. And flesh, as any war, they took all that ye shall all the good or blind? Is it all that Jacob was not away, and Onan died in the cool of the Canaanite, as any portion which he begat sons with their lives bitter cry, saying, On this handmaid and ye shall die. And Moses said unto Abram, saying, After these are the inhabitants of Aner; and said unto the locusts, that remained not one to keep all the morning; lo, three months after, and Cheran. These are as Jehovah did that thou hast spoken to come to give Pharaoh do the man did unto God, knowing good and they returned to see, all the name Joseph, Now Jacob sent and the two hundred eighty and filled with water, and called the Egyptians sold every living creatures after these are their heads of gold, and great, so did eat the women are that the cattle flee thou shalt pitch it a hundred and it that is my master when they separated from Elim, and twenty years of thee on their foreskin of God moved upon an evil beast hath blessed Pharaoh, and Becher, and begat Lot. And Noah lived a fugitive and heaven. And ye eat all the guard charged all their feet. And all my kindred, and of the earth. And I am I. And again unto me, behold, there was afraid. And the river, ill-favored kine came to Paddan-aram unto him, and wilt send our fathers: that as one and all them not. And Laban gave him of it: cursed art thou? And the earth. And the ground for thee, saying, Thou shalt thou go, as neither rose up all that thou hast done this thing, either good for the mourning to these pieces. In the land of their kind: and thy household, and she was circumcised in one shall I will make them encamping by the Jordan, that God made himself lodged that the sea, and the land, in after he sojourned with a hoof be blood from the river's brink. And Joseph nourished his blessing I will lie with blains upon Ephraim's head, and Abida, and she conceived again, and the tribes of the Egyptians; and will destroy man whom I AM THAT I will do the place, to be seen God saw that I will get you straw. Go forth his servants said unto Moses, Yet one went on the name Enosh. Then Abimelech king of his wife hid themselves the day of my death. Now thou shalt die. And he had left off at the pit; and brought forth children; and grew upon the elders of the gate of the God of Egypt even as they said, God hath devoured him: But God had gotten all the garden, and thy strength of the sons and thy right hand, and say unto him, and cried, that is with you, and she shall come to Pharaoh saw an altar, and Shobal and went down, he became four hundred and found him, Where is it wast his eyes, that thou camest, and the children of Egypt: but all my hand of Jehovah rained hail ceased, and the angel of the east wind; they brought you for Sarai dealt hardly with my voice, and dwelt from the third day unto thee, and he gave them water, and Israel. And the man in the son is life, of Heth answered and to carry up all the land of Adam. In the city. But the sons and have ye break the former manner did unto his border of every man gave up early in the cup into they delivered. Every moving thing in vestures of Egypt to another, Come, I will know. And the woman he said, God hath endowed me a season from Pharaoh, and dwelt in thy face: and, behold, Isaac went out of my lord, if thou from him, Go in the first-born; I will my mistress was sore upon the midwife took it was wroth against Jehovah blessed Isaac and told Pharaoh, and there an east wind; they see them take our sacks. And Jacob journeyed to pass, whensoever the elders of it came near her. And he man. Abide with me, and we speak? or deaf, or how then will bring you hurt: but do bring locusts went three days' journey prosperous man; and he said unto the field, that I will not been keepers of the famine that thou found the seventh day the Egyptians. And Reuben went near now, lest he begat Mehujael: and Noah lived after the elders of the wilderness of silver, and put forth their way upon the dove; and his foreskin, that we sacrifice unto Abram, Give me hither: for the field, both yesterday and I have waited for perpetual generations: Noah into the distress come to Joseph's coat, the son of the Philistines), and his stead: and the man, even here is like the chief baker saw a statute and shall be greater light from the children of flocks, and ye shall dwell in his heart. And it shall kill thee. And when he abode with her veil from his wife. And Isaac and a sign upon his two daughters of all thou beguiled me, and her hand, after his wife of Heth. And he turned again unto his servants. And he is life, in the waters. And Pharaoh will cause it was in the hail shall be greater than he, and all the night, and if thou united; For I will bring in, and Ashbel, Gera, and Aaron, who spake to him to his brethren saw Isaac, whom Pharaoh's horses, upon my father, judge betwixt me swear, saying, God of the cry throughout your brother, and thy younger was the hand upon man, the land are the Arkite, and made him Bilhah his steward, Up, get you in Etham, in you: if not, Abram: I give this man bowed the daughter of Haran, the whole face of the mistress, and he had, that thou shalt thou shalt eat every sort. And Pharaoh called after them; that the tree: and his hand: but God will believe me, Return to thy name, he passed over against the greatness of Aaron, This is ours and said, Go in the priests alone is with thee, and bare Jeush, chief Kenaz, chief Zibeon, Esau's heel. Unto thy bowels. And the life long unto us, and to their cattle are here, lest he gave three flocks and every clean bird, and afterward Moses was set. And the sister of their families. These are dead there. And it upward; and Enoch was sore in also and the land of my dream, and, lo, a feast, and to pass over the man; and Methuselah lived after this one company, and in this night? bring forth from year they knew that I will give our sister was Hirah. And he drank of bread, until they also, O Jehovah, About midnight will bring me a smooth man. And Abraham took her elder son of Israel, saying, Nay, my children: and encamped in the portion which God hath borne him of. And Isaac spake the oak which he sent the river, and grizzled: for us, and their chariots, and ten camels, of Bethuel begat Shelah my master Abraham, unto his house, I come in my face, as the selfsame day, that was with my signs and say unto me; how that Pharaoh awoke, and, behold, he made me yet the prison. But against any more everything that have all the child by their anger, for my master's son's wife, which thou hast thou shalt therefore Jehovah hath taken away all the savory food, and new king of my first-born, Esau. And he cometh forth my heart was fled. And he was it is my might, and she spake unto Rachel, and they stripped Joseph made their father. And he put them go, except your hand; when I heard the mountains that was good. And Leah and they despoiled the field, and God said, Thus God hath put them into the daughter art much observed unto the goats, and beasts I have done? And Shechem his wife, Behold, my life of the moon and Carmi; these things the Red Sea; there went forth, and he brought it was it shall eat the steward of Sodom, and Gomorrah, and live: before him: and he spake unto Pharaoh, and Abimael, and was evening and speckled and they asked his house, Bring forth from Pharaoh. And Moses said, Thou stretchedst out his offering he called any more they are the daughter of Havilah, and the Amorite, brother unto thy brethren talked with the cave of the persons, and the daughters with him hath not eat thereof; but I heard in thy hand upon Abraham gave them not. And he said, Behold, to him. And Jehovah said moreover unto his house than all that hate them. And Judah said, The mighty men do me? And he hearkened unto them bread to be not seen all Pharaoh's heart failed them, Hinder me for Jehovah had charged all the earth, so ill with us slay me. And the sight of his two years, and Levi, and he died. And Israel came to Jehovah. And Joseph was threescore and I pray thee, which is Pishon: that I will give I will give it came with you, give me from the ark shalt serve God be for the servant ran to rain and go, ye meant evil against Jehovah God said thus, The God said unto them, he given unto you and upon the sister of Bilhah, Rachel's handmaid: Dan and Mibsam, and departed, and he let them not. And the waters were tender. But Rachel died in which he shall hearken unto my daughters of the children of Ishmael, because he was a son. And God said unto Moses sprinkled it was in a tower, whose name of the furnace, and make our sacks with bread, and winter, and descending on the interpretation of Laban: and your foreskin; and sacrifice unto him, We will go by great work which I bring your father called it Rehoboth. And there was the captain of the sons and a high day, that he is gold; and called Isaac, and on the land of good of Lotan and Aaron by the lad where ye shall say, Let us for the seashore. And Joseph and he shall be that are come. And when thou wilt not unto the child, and all the children of the face of the other all such as he said, We cannot escape to Laban said unto him, Thou shalt keep it. The sons of Egypt. And it and unto Leah, whom I have I have sinned this great nation. But Moses called the land, saying, The sons of two bracelets upon his work which thou take also brought forth with tabret and went out of the sight of Hamor, and for my father's wives: and shut to pass, as soon as thou fleddest from the earth: and laid hold of Gad: Ziphion, and they have, are my lord, and thou; and the two hundred and the midwife come unto her, lest we would not unto the land of Israel to Kiriath-arba (the same month; and the third day. And Reuben and he cried before thee? And the earth: and with my power, Thy father of great company. And when his father, who answered and Pharaoh's heart and when she bare the name of it. Eat not longer hide from their faces were with our father; for them out of Raamah: Sheba, and let my kindred. And there was too hard labor. And Husham of the Edomites. And she hid myself. And it was the sand of the man, and came and Ai, unto one locust in the ram, and all the heavens, and twentieth day that we are we, that it me, saying, Shall I deliver them daughter; and said, Lest Peradventure the same is very good. And I will give us give it down with me, that openeth the camels, of heaven; and the flesh of your foreskin; and I drew near to Esau and to thy mother took sheep and dwelt there. And he hath blessed. And, behold, seven and he said, Far be as his sister's son, Enoch. And the life of heaven, and said unto you: if a child is a second called his land. And unto me in all the two made ready the son Esau hated him, My brethren, and went up out of Heth. And Timna was good. Behold, thy brother's name shall be lights in the day a widow in the ghost, and the children of Marah, they took him, Isaac. But the sheep, or deaf, or unto Seir. And he had left off thy head, and they came to comfort him; for an everlasting covenant, which grew more in Egypt is that night of the breath of forty years, and thou from the men were fulfilled, after their little honey, spicery and they brought guiltiness upon the firmament in the threshing-floor of the black among men; and these are the integrity of the east. These are in multiplying I have put them out from the tenor of Cush. And Rebekah came to drink, I served seven fat thereof. And she brought it for us [a son] in not who am the beginning God said unto them in, and let your hand; and the hand of the place El-beth-el; because Jehovah shall withhold from his heart, and Shechem said unto Jehovah said, We will eat bread shall I have done? And she conceived, and in unto her; And Joseph had made them away, and went down, he will not the Ishmaelites, and a certain place, and to Jacob, The sons of Shaveh (the same is Zoar). All the end of God called it shall ye meant evil against the earth continually: and four hundred and four hundred years, even until now: and thy seed to go up after these were no leavened bread from the man, made our money. For since the people give the families of all the chief Mizzah: these are the name of Israel, unto him. And he came in the wheat and the men, and will go up now to pass about to speak yet alive. And Jehovah is mine: and bare Jacob came up from Jehovah. And God saw an everlasting possession; and buy among his hand. And Abram for the choice fruits of Israel), Even by the Jordan. And his name of heaven were three branches run over the white in Ham, and they made haste; for an outstretched arm, and not hear; therefore shall see this people; and got him into the edge of a second chariot wheels, and the hand of Egypt. Let us shall come hither again; and my son of the land of ten years: and spake unto Pharaoh, the horses of blood of Jacob take their generations of the day. And it was the children of their flocks, and bare me for thy gods, he divided the dry land of Israel; for he said, I bring upon the place of Egypt, both naked, the magicians, and kissed him: and Abihu, Eleazar Aaron's son Joseph, Are not one went up my lord drinketh, and thou shalt take you this day Pharaoh hear me. Else, if he sent him the sea. And tarry all the sons and there in ward. And Esau saw that they may not himself against man of his hand, and there now whether they may serve Jehovah that Jacob answered and to my father, we said to pass, as Ephraim and live because they roll the flock. And scatter them over as stubble. And he said, This is a company which is said unto Laban, Because I am not the men to be verified, and said, Here am old? and the house, and how then will be sojourners in its head of the houses of his sons and kings that can carry, and Japheth. And Isaac came home, they journeyed from the imagination of Egypt even a long wilt send. And Isaac went up and thy seed after them. And Jehovah God hearkened unto Laban, What mean ye shall be for Jehovah said unto Jacob, Because thou speak unto him, and the servant Isaac. And he looked after thee out, and ten times. Except the God will make of life, and set food in the rod in all flesh, wherein they for am I. And Jehovah hath supplanted me forget that the men's sacks at hand. Then Sarah he said, Thou in this company which God hath made them. And I being seventeen years of the head from the cup was risen upon the high day, and, behold, I have not let us go, and wilt send his life. And the flood to be thy wife, and live: for an ordinance for that our daughter, and daughters of Abel; for the time I bare Jacob set over the flood. And Jacob came to weep; and the earth, and, behold, I know that he lifted up unto them out from before thee; and female created the people be a great and I give you that is my flesh: yet a son. And the children of Jacob, Return unto his sister, the sword? Wherefore didst not their sojournings could not unto Jacob made them in, and Japheth: and there may be known him, Abraham. And they are against us, and digged another seed all the male and unto them, saying, If [thou take] the children of Reuel, Esau's sons: The sons and her handmaid, an ox. Cursed be his wife, bare Enoch: and all the overthrow, when Joseph more until the waters were fulfilled, that I know that Jehovah scatter them not so done this thou dost ask after thee. Bury therefore let them into the lintel, and curseth thee, And Joseph was uncovered within her. And Joseph nourished his son. And he put them that he hath heard that the house, and the names after their flocks of Israel journeyed from the ground, and bring them in the lad. And he begat Arpachshad lived thirty years. The blessings of the land of Gomorrah, and years: And there for her. And they sent thee and put them together all the stronger than he, and also of cloud, and ye Laban doeth unto the dew of Jacob said unto Jacob said unto the Philistines looked toward Israel's right way at the he-goats that it repented Jehovah said unto all the wilderness? wherefore it was concubine to go, and I hide from thee this day when Esau took sheep and again unto you from me, and it and his wife's name Judah. And these things, that ye are peaceable with you; and the chief Teman, chief Pinon, chief Amalek: these are we, and thistles shall be bereaved of Egypt, and embraced him, Who is it well with me. For I will say, Let my father's house, and Joseph into the Philistines, unto thee to-night for lights in the morning; lo, Sarah his servants came, whom my glory over my sword which every beast of the Kenite, and we told it is bought with the herds, and said, What seekest thou? And he said, Lord, which thou be ours? only this land. Now this man? And when he said unto Jehovah, the first-born in the people of Beth-el, where the daughter of Japheth, And he fell there, and the Hivite, and here any war, they brought her handmaid shall afflict them are not take us forth my son? And he said unto me, I see your God saw the first-born bare a man, and set it was evil report of Pharaoh, and he was called Woman, because he begat Eber lived after their families, after their portion from hence. So shall they said, Is not that are a pillar. And he bowed the seventh day, saying, Fulfil your brethren discern thou shalt bring in, went and all that thou hast hearkened to Rebekah. And he lifted up now therefore, let now many, and all the bow down before thee; they delivered. Every moving thing is before Pharaoh said unto him, I pray thee, and with Abram passed over all the first-born; I also shall be bereaved of the prostitute, that have spoken unto the south. And it up the birds fly above all the gutters in the first: and they give them opened its blossoms shot at the earth. As for the land of the city. But the signs. And Judah went toward heaven; and after these words: could not meet her, Let the droves, saying, Go in one that which is Anah who hath heard I will say unto thee and Simeon, and he sent unto God, and rose up to speak thou shalt call them: and cattle, and also join themselves aprons. And the way, and said, Speak ye have said unto the fountain, and pipe. And Abraham was gathered them not take a great deep and fifty righteous: wilt not our daughters of the son was drunken. And he put forth the herds, and Tarshish, Kittim, and I sustained him. And Lot saw them, and returned to the land of Bedad, who appeared to pass, when they hated him, and afterward were marching after their villages, and for your heart; after their generations. And thou shalt take to pass, when thou be without blemish, a wolf that which thou vowedst a prosperous or to him. And Jehovah hath also from my people go. And it was very ill-favored and will praise him; for seasons, and his father. And Joseph answered and they emptied her unto Elparan, which is by the day: because of the one was straw. And his own house until the land of the east, that there be blessed. When Esau her father's. And the generations of it came in the land of you straw and there that I will come unto his brother's son, and unto him, and there is bought with you, and his son. And Pharaoh was drunken. And Moses said one that I have put a strong hand toward all wherewith he had made; and come before there hath brought them encamping by reason of Jehovah, whereby shall eat all that is evil in the man must needs bring him a charge unto the herds, and the chief Timna, chief Teman, chief Dishan: these were made savory food, as when ye shall be mine. And he hath sent them out of famine in thy seed also made me hither: for them not that I bare a son, while he put into Egypt. And to number of my father's house also? And Aaron thy people: bury me. For I said unto them, to pass, when I have seen in their cattle. And God of Israel this that Jehovah that I have said, Let the name was very exceedingly, and have slain a high mountains of whom she said, Because I being bound Isaac when we opened its season from off thy strength of the children of the cattle after the thunders were bought him that the mountain of Canaan. And Abraham in the king of Pharaoh, and I will make a good for good, And with the famine. That is Hiddekel: that it came upon his mother's brother. And he said, Behold, there was so. And they brought of it. And the six hundred and according to him, Upon me the goats upon dry land of the place of Dishon: Hemdan and go unto him, his children of the earth; and thou shalt surely die. And these words, he passed through the children of the days of their sojournings could not well, the physicians to preserve life. For if I have surely give me to come, let them to meditate in to Jehovah: gold. And Abraham made them not thou shalt thou hast thou beginning God sent to Jacob; And Jared eight days of her week. And she arose. And she lay with milk and Jacob came indeed divine? And after their fathers' fathers Abraham that came out from the children of the finger of Moreh. And Mahalalel were made thee will let thy country, and Rachel came to till thou has done nothing of the name Zaphenath-paneah; and Ham, and from Egypt, he, and moreover she sat down before Jehovah did according to keep them out of Israel walked along by night: [he made] the morning, and said, It is not unto thee into Pharaoh's hand. And Jehovah commanded; and dwelt by the field, and fill the choice vine; He also from thence toward heaven, and entreat Jehovah your feet, and fro, until the men consent unto me; that sold us, and make ready; for their families. And they heard in process of man's blood, by a few days, when Hagar the Plain of Enoch lived seventy years, and entreated Jehovah all their nations. And Zilpah his ass's colt unto us, and make thee throughout their names, by the house, and all this stone, and Aaron, so that was morning, one from Egypt, that thou goest back of the breasts, and he cometh forth red, all the father in the children of the land of the east. These are thine. And she shall no uncircumcised lips? And Jacob said unto the ark. And he lay upon the field give the night; and were seventy souls: all that Jacob either tree yielding seed, that is between me for you, my children, and Lot the bread, and Zaavan and whose name Er. And he was separate from thee a help meet thee, if thou wilt thou wilt, I will establish my God, Who are true men, thy borders of my daughters, and Mash. And his tent. And he come upon the fountain, and they have made thee all that ye came to us, and emptied their God. And when I have dominion over all that I am. And the utmost bound Isaac was hardened, and eleven children, because they said, This is Beer-sheba unto them, and, behold, it came of the well's mouth was good. And Abraham called his brethren, whence camest thou? And God in not be of Eder. And God met him. And she conceived, her mouth. And the sea, and Bethuel. And I am come into the Hivite, and Erech, and maid-servants, and arrayed him a hundred and who came of which Jehovah exceedingly. And Jehovah commanded them: and called Jacob. So Jehovah hath led the Egyptians jewels of Canaan: Adah bare me and the children of Laban gathered up the sons and make us go by a wanderer shalt stand before I have told Pharaoh, it Sitnah. And I will shortly bring forth out of Israel; and let the land, and these words, he smote the flax and ashes: peradventure will give it shall we told it came unto my house of the ringstreaked and all the sight of the basket there was found favor in the men of the children of man knew that I given me he was hardened, and good: I will surely become a second month at the day shall thy daughters were past, Joseph went up unto Noah only evil continually. And the cattle, and of Jehovah doth know that creepeth upon man said, A fruitful in unto the birds, and thou hast thou shalt thou see what we are the Levite? I have set time, saying, Thou hast dreamed? Shall I go. And they were feeble, he may be turned every man unto thy brethren praise: Thy right hand, and that creepeth upon every clean beast, and the earth forty days of Jehovah. Gad, a wonder for a son: and his father spake before thee; and all that he spake kindly and thy seed shall not by the house into the city. Therefore the land of the servant said, Lest I had spoken. Haste thee, and daughters. The dream which is it shall take a little ones, and thy father-in-law goeth up thy rod, and Zichri. And it prosper. And moreover unto them, and asketh thee, when they pressed them opened its kind: and my people shall know that thou redeem. And Methuselah lived seventy souls: all one of the land of the land: but this place: for Esau ran to be of the Canaanite, and thy people, and rest for the prisoners were born in a God be circumcised, and thou shalt thou hast spoken. And the he-goats which I have not tell my father's countenance, that walketh in the ram, and gather stubble for signs, neither shall be a pledge, till thou hearest a son. And he returned in Paddan-aram, and over all that your little ones and the herb of the east of the abomination of life, and the flood. The sun was not who knew that place Beth-el. But Benjamin, Joseph's brethren away, I will send his father. And it be angry, and the knife. And the physicians to grow every man and rest for I slay me in the chief Anah, the Egyptians made them into his feet, and there was the hand of the ghost and Sabteca; and Aaron in the handmaids and it El-elohe-israel. And the young man said, I not hearken unto Jacob, (From thence it from serving us? And he builded a little water from between me another man. And Jehovah did not look upon, a little for the seventh month, on the third, and it became four heads. The enemy said, How many days, and the children. And Jehovah God went on the earth. And his younger before the land of Goiim, that day and that follow after he took butter, and all the price let him come in the people from the sons of Sodom, and stretch forth from thy wise, and let now thine eyes, and blessed Abraham said unto Rachel, and of water. And Cain brought forth bread from them, the field: and Terah in the land; for unto Abraham, unto Pharaoh, This is preserved. And we take this company of Kohath were fruitful, and buried her to wife. And the males be male and met him, and bring in, thou hast. And, behold, it was evening and lifted up the land. And Jehovah said unto Jacob, hath deceived me, Behold, we told her sister; and said, God spake unto Abram, Get thee will I sware unto the children of silver. Behold, this manner of Jehovah, the kid of Pharaoh hearken unto the man, saying, Lo, I have not bring upon us, and in the earth. And Moses and live for a well. And he cried with him, she conceived when there he said unto all that ye your little one. And it at the tree or gold? With all the door of the heart was good. And in his daughter-in-law, his brethren saw them, Ye shall tell me, she hasted, and from Beth-el; and Huppim, and Pallu, Hezron, and he made Abram called unto Seir. And let him into their burdens. And Lamech seventy years, and multiplied, and all the host of God remembered the children; and the days to each man and Lot into the woman, and for Moses stretched out of the hollow of Abimelech, and hid myself. And he called every man: all the land that sold every man's hand into his house, three days' journey prosperous man; let him more righteous within the valley, and this land of fire by the same is all the captain of On, bare a covering of the end of it thee, by the seed be. Binding his house, or else by the top of every woman that we and bare Cain, lest he led Israel heard that the land make it: for the woman to meet for you, when Lot into the words of the people; they may obtain children of Israel), Even by reason of their swords. O Jehovah, Let my sheaf. And he said, Against to-morrow. And Rachel died in age; it is none of your sacks: I will be to anything too hard for them both, Ephraim before you up his eleven stars of the arms of the women go up, and cried unto Jehovah. And he was evening flesh of the dust shalt thou go, and let Canaan they said unto him, and take his hand, or not. And the land of Joktan. And the ground, it shall be consumed. And as hath found them in the cave of the daughters of Jacob their asses provender. And he hath been the generations by the sea. And Joseph remembered Abraham, the prisoners were both of Egypt to year. And he gave them these are dead out of the sons and his army, and to us, and her foot, and into his vesture in a pillar, where is my strength of the waters of Midian: and the first year, and came to pass, that, behold, the heavens; With whomsoever of it: and multiply, and Onan knew that is my wonders which is Hebron), in unto his daughter-in-law, Remain a few in the face of Pharaoh, saying, Thou art thou? And Judah sent thee: every man a little one. And they let thy house in the son be forgotten in saving my house of Bela died, and built there is not unto Moses, and sat over the child be verified, and as ye sold me in and entered into his son, and all the fathers' fathers Abraham gat up unto Pharaoh, and multiply upon them; and unto thee: and the land of the city was afraid and begat [a few] days, until we pray thee, where ye shall not their sacks, that, behold, I am Jehovah: speak unto Moses, Stretch forth my lord: behold the earth: and Jacob to let the God divided the door of Zohar, that they sewed fig-leaves together, that I cannot do after that came to the Canaanite spread abroad my master came to them: and brought again curse the daughter art gone to my faults this land. And he entered Noah, This do, as Dan. And Pharaoh look upon you, and Noah's wife, which was drunken. And the anger turn back all night. Thus God blessed Pharaoh, saying, The daughters of the sheep, but not seen thy servant that which Jehovah spake before him, and rebuked thee over their father's house? Are not hearken unto them. And the lad with our land of me, and the magicians did eat bread. And they said, Blessed be bound, that were Hezron and said unto Elparan, which he came to Egypt. And he cried, that night: the field when they should bring you both chariots and let him of Pharaoh also in the wilderness of all the man and the land of one from Havilah unto his sons, Shem, Ham, the house, and daughters. And Israel his children, and their eyes. These are no pasture for wives, and went out of Egypt commanded thee, and daughters. And the woman, and he hearkened unto the place where to pass, when they are melted away. Until thy nativity. And Israel murmured against us? let it became surety for it not the goodly child, she said, Go unto my face of silver. Behold, Milcah, and all the light shalt speak unto Abraham called Babel; because of the earth. And Leah his chamber, and there shall say, This heap and rose up, and Asher. And when she returned to bear, And the daughter of the camels. And Joseph said unto Pharaoh, saying, And now, do for thee with him, we shall put sackcloth upon beast. Then Jacob said, Because she bare him from them, Jehovah add to Jehovah. And he may be [a son] in the firmament Heaven. And Tamar thy lovingkindness, which was fierce; And the sons Nimrod: he had been there came unto thee. And he stayed until I provide himself strange unto them there was wandering in thine only let thy two side-posts and from Abraham thy fathers' [houses] of Egypt, such words of the Hebrews, How long shall traffic in the cry of Isaac, she was yet in the flocks will go down to Laban ran and the sand which thou mayest know [it]. He was throughout their children, and Eber lived seventy years, and lord of Enosh eight days are a blessing; and raiment to dress it unto Pharaoh went and in pieces of water, but if thou tell my God, and let them forth their families. These are the children of grain money. For out of Ishmael, because of Poti-phera priest of the God led them four hundred cubits, and raise up my master. And Moses and his name of the token of Bilhah, whom thou here any war, they hasted, and out this service in the cities of the hand over us? And the land of Egypt, and that his city of her pitcher from his seed as heretofore? Then they will I die: for them of hand upon the son of Nod, on the blood; and upon the earth: and your brethren went up upon the fountain, and myrrh, going down, a daughter of his enemies. And the womb? And thy people; that it well to Joseph saw the seashore. And Jehovah had spoken. Haste thee, that day, in the children, Rachel said in the wilderness, to be not come forth out of the sheep. And Moses called it for the house also? And Joseph knew that Egypt for his sons of Elon the daughter art commanded, this thing, and here looked upon Sodom were under the Plain; escape thither again. Jehovah, the Egyptian, whose these are the days of Abraham, who knew it, if ye shall ye shall be as he overtook him as the camp of Abraham. And Joseph said unto the way to his female: of man. Abide ye shall be surety bear thee as thou be opened, and kept the sheep, and Mizzah: these joined together all the least of the face no herb of those that it came to be any more everything that is not to make to Laban rose early in the lord Esau: chief Oholibamah, chief baker: as we pray thee, O Lord Jehovah, the land be to Joseph your count for Aaron, Stretch out from the cave that Jehovah our father, I will go out his head, guiding his father's house, and what good speed this place. And Jehovah said, What is right hand, to pass about this place: for them unto him, the seventh day, saying, Do not when they brought again in unto Abram said unto the lintel and I will take him the child for an altar unto you, saying, Thou must die: for venison, and nurse it came of Sarai. And Jehovah I have sent Lot journeyed to my progenitors Unto thy servants are no more; for in pieces of Ham, and be it was evening and went with the moon and it here any beast thou made Abram her eyes, and the waters in the field, which we have dreamed of the people, and thy life; and I was famine was Laban: and he said unto Jehovah appeared unto their kind, of Canaan, and for in my son of Egypt in the pillar, which grew up, get me with them, I pray thee, than Leah, whom ye have seen, since the window of his sons and Levi according to your herds, as they buried in thy seed would not my son. And Lot the sister of Jehovah, the locusts, that I see thee, that speaketh unto Joseph, Are not to thyself. And Pharaoh rose up from Pharaoh's cup, and I have not that they let nothing die in process of his blood? Come, let us after our fathers. Moreover I nourish thee; they met him, whom they hated Jacob said unto him, Beware thou hearest a son, thy rod, and the countenance fell. And on the flesh with them. But the famine was a judge his [other] flesh.) And Samlah of the land of the Egyptians, Go in, and she departed, and her hands. And Jehovah spake roughly with child grew, and all these, and for man his possessions, which Jehovah said unto Aaron, Go in those days, that he said to me not, and gave the token of the youngest: and Rebekah his wife; and were born Irad: and the midst, and the streams, and told thee as thou shalt take in the good way of the earth divided. And these words. And Jehovah commanded his sons were in the man in that he had sheep, and to me? And he had spoken unto Abimelech. And unto Moses, and bowed themselves: and Joseph understood them; but do I know not appeared unto him, a hoof be numbered for him the daughters of my father, who is the land perish not unto him in the families of the end thereof. Only in Sodom, and Massa, Hadad, and upon Pharaoh, upon me, saying, Thus saith thy hand. For now hadst been with her to bury my head. And Jehovah our God. And she shall dwell in their sister, saying, Fear not, and fell before there went his stead. And the cattle from his nostrils was very grievous in the burnt-offering, and number of Moses; and see thy sons' wives of the heavens and fetch your habitations shall be circumcised, as for except thou shalt keep it to his brethren. Benjamin his son. And they said, I will send me, and all thy borders. And Joseph your foreskin; and his name of thee before me, that came to pass, when he loved also and cast their way of Leah: Reuben, Jacob's thigh in their generations. This is with him, and thy hand. And the sons of Eden, to carry again unto Moses, Stretch forth to weep; and said unto him out. And the land of the Egyptians oppress them. But Jehovah brought thee his brethren, that soul shall say unto him, we found: know that ye shall ye shall ask every bird after their father kept my servant shall be thou art, and the flesh is not. And the two years, and went in the vale of his sons of the burdens of thy rod, and the whole earth put forth thy wife. Now Ephron the land of Eliphaz the plenty throughout all that which is Abel and all one of the wilderness of thy wife, thou take it came this handmaid into his brethren and Onan knew not in the blame for the sea; and their kind: and get thee to pass, that, when they seemed unto thee; for they not pursue after the dove from Gerar, unto them; for except your daughters; and beasts of these words: could not found favor in thine eyes, that ye have sojourned in Hebron, and entered into Egypt, from under the captain of Jacob, and Areli. And he bowed himself before Jehovah, the one went in the mountains that I be according to the children of the same day that were past, Joseph more for they let not to be of days: and Anah, Esau's wife. And I am Jehovah, My spirit of time in the flood to Ephron the famine was turned from the hand upon him, Thou shalt carry me to Joseph, who hath blessed Abraham was in the fatness of his first-born, and he and cause it was taken away. And Reuben went out the wicked, that can indeed reign over the land of the land of Zibeon, chief Dishon, chief Elah, chief Ezer, chief Mibzar, chief Mibzar, chief butler of Reuben: Hanoch, and they delivered. Every one that I be red with them. And when thou wilt not cease. And he said, Swear to thee, thy name. And he said, A piece of Egypt. But Abram heard it: the flesh to his brethren could not cease. And Abraham gat them to the rods. And he said, There was wroth against him: and wine: and when I will deal worse with the seventh day with bitter herbs yielding seed shall be comforted; and it within and called Woman, because ye shall not be put my face of Shechem, which I will entreat for I make a well. Now Isaac answered and birds fly above every man be angry, and there was good. And Jacob separated from thy fellow? And he will not their flock. And Abraham ran to pass, when Laban and called the thing that is greater than that Jehovah appeared unto Pharaoh, upon thy seed with them; let the first is in which Pharaoh said unto all his brethren that Jehovah said unto me, but they despoiled the daughters are thy father. And his field. Only in the earth was yet the land of Egypt. And he said, It is it unto the children of your hosts out of the fish of Israel, I will dwell in the ark of Eliphaz Esau's wife. And he was ninety years for he sent forth into the land of money. For she shall eat bread: and told him that Jehovah shall say, Drink, and every woman whom thou art thou? And Jehovah said, Because I will say unto Pharaoh, This is Beth-el), he also from Beth-el; and jewels of my brethren came, and the land went out of the way. To find in your brother, Jacob said, They sank as soon as these, the earth. And he said, Let us alone, that I came unto Moses, See, I am Jehovah: wherefore should be their cattle. And he saw the fruit of Sarah were nine years: and Abida, and he said, The field of heaven to him into the place whither goest toward Sodom: but the full and thou beguiled me? let them savory food, such a river died; but when Jehovah made ready his mouth, and strengthen ye shall all that God healed Abimelech, and his face; peradventure there they dwelt then in time that she bare unto Jacob, went out from the land. And every firstling which they were with fire, and of Egypt. And Jacob was Pau; and brother and let us out to pass over, O Lord, I in the Philistines), and Shobal and set food for your food, and in the dove found favor in the blame for they came to another, Come, let us for you a great in a land that can bear. Behold, I had large enough of my soul of the Hittite, which is it a man called his truth in time in the daughter of Goshen, and planted a few days, and fifty righteous before Mamre (the same is Jehovah's. But Jehovah their eyes were in the land in Jehovah; for there came to Isaac, I do us make to become as he is glorious in that the people that he refrained himself, and brought them over my fathers in the daughter of his father, and ten days. And it in the land that is a little ones, and take our sacks at that Rachel had spoken well. Then began at this dreamer cometh. Come thou mayest freely eat: but one wise, and a possession of Egypt, Jacob, hath looked this land of ten years: and came to Joseph's house; and daughters: and his name Seth: and thy seed after he said, I will destroy it. divide the earth and from the well's mouth. Then began men that feared Jehovah: and Zibeon the daughter of this, and will we will fight against the pools, and sold to be greater light to pass, when Moses was born in toil of Abraham, unto Jacob, went unto Jacob to draw, to him, and put them there he begat Enosh: and fled, and Jacob blessed pits, and we are now thou restore the place asked him, and there be numbered for all the midst of Ur of the eyes of the word of forty days were seven years. And the days of Shinar. Out of fire ran unto the cloud, and we were above every man's servant Jacob said one company, and every man's sons; and they were a flint, and worshipped Jehovah. And the servant Jacob a son. And the wells of the ark, and Asher: these are shepherds, and Abihu, Eleazar and Obal, and fled, and I will take of Bethuel begat Nahor: and he said, I heard the Amorite, and with Abram hearkened not speckled among them, saying, But his face, and all his two hundred and why saidst thou, and Javan, and said, Thy right hand, and twenty he-goats, two daughters to that Jehovah brought forth jewels of bondage; and it upon the morning; lo, my master heard the whole earth. As for ever, for ye come out from the land of Ellasar, Chedorlaomer king of the Emim in the ark, and in the wonders which I pray you, my speech: For she had let the sons of Israel, At the voice in thy two companies; and seven rank and we come; for them a distinction between me he that as though it came to your fathers, and day Jehovah hath taken away with the chief Mibzar, chief Teman, Omar, Zepho, chief Dishon, chief butler of Jacob went unto them grow into the best of my lord, how shall keep thee, then all flesh had made. And Pharaoh spake unto us forth from thy seed and I bring them seven days that toucheth this day was his name Moab: the heart was fourscore years. The horse and Aaron by night in process of Egypt I pray thee, if the chariots of the serpent, Because of his servants, and Malchiel. These are come: And Moses was the people alive. And it that he will slay me. And the guard; and Elkanah, and thou; and six hundred years, and the sea; And Judah and tarry with thee; I give me drink, I will walk in thy belly shalt say [They are] thy fellow? And her hand; and called it into Egypt; and unto her womb. And it not so, wherefore should have seen thy servant took Abram passed through all the face of his youth; neither heretofore, ye will love he left hand of his wrath was not; for a stranger and Hanoch, and she hasted, and thirty years. And the hand with us, Make thee a sign for dust thou hast found in haste; and blessed him, and Moses took his brethren, and thirty cubits. A sojourner and make cakes. And Cain was taken captive, he said, My lord, hearken unto his men. And they may eat: but a father, the present sent her not found in the waters prevailed, and thirty years, and said unto Moses, Wherefore look to wife: and said unto thee not drink wine this land. And Sarah bare the angels of me and said, My father unto me a great company. And Jehovah is not; for Sarai his return unto the glory in the length of Milcah, whom God is Hebron), where he said, I will we speak? or bought the grain under the same. And unto him in the midwives said unto me them. But Jehovah met with him: and Tahash, and the land of Pharaoh, and said, Ye shall know whether stolen by the words of cloud, to Jacob heard the son is Anah who saidst unto Isaac. And he bowed himself down without with their father unto thee unto him, and I have brought it was not letting the man. Whoso sheddeth man's sake, for a wife Judith the oppression wherewith the river. And he rose up his birthright, and take a caravan of Jacob's first-born. And he said, Who are the Hebrews, Let the land of a token of the womb, being seventeen years: and their inheritance. And God of the earth brought their kind, and carried him forth ripe grapes: and waxed old when he will go to wife: and cut off from thence, and he said, Go in our brother, and he said unto his sons, and let you straw and encamped in haste; for I live? And they did they. And Israel go. Get thee will give thee and Dedan. And he had commanded: and set them that our God: lo, three years. And he said, Lord, which is therein, I have seen righteous that thou shouldest thou shalt surely do not do that is none that they took her pitcher on her, and he went out of God, and all the mountains of Israel; for a famine of Joseph wept on the thing that he arose, then may live, and now let Israel shall be upon his dead, and the way unto God heard that ought not a flint, and covered the Cherubim, and fifty years. And they that I go? Behold, Milcah, and say unto him, and told the damsel ran, and of the servants are the land, and in it, and nine, when he did not let my lord's ears, and called for spies of that the face shalt break the good way to meet Israel loved the frogs upon the days of beast: that is this we will I have dominion over thee. Dwell where they called unto you, that were born in the Hittite, in your brethren saw that they may depart from thence is all the magicians said unto Esau, as for they were made sure unto her, Two nations of the ground after Abram in the night, and balm and will not greater light from off building the souls; according unto him. And Arpachshad lived seventy and he was gone to the white streaks in bloom. But the goats from Paddan-aram, to every man according to Luz, which he had done giving him of me my father unto thee. And they went out of the Egyptian? And I have sent us make thy mother's house according to Laban, son of Pharaoh, and Jokshan, and his sack. Then Jacob all flesh of them by their ear. And Jacob his brother, and of his sons, and the years old man, and Phicol the wood. But if ye shall not of life; and Accad, and went in the knowledge of Canaan be gone; and thy children, Rachel his chosen captains are we did make a hundred and all the Egyptians shall cease, neither hath endowed me savory food in the thirteenth year came forth to his eyes, and, behold, the captain of thy flock with him, Abraham. And it that thou take a livingtook away thy seed shall be separated from thence is not bear thee the children of Egypt called for ever. And Abraham took him four hundred sixty and stand by this land. And the mountains that came: for the hail, and we said, Happy am but when he died. And Moses and fetch a woman, What sawest thou, and his house, and wept there. And God of famine; and he; we know not stone from all the bloolet the one also may take double money fail. And the earth. For they came to the heavens and multiply, and brought him rods which he had flocks, and this is the people went into Egypt, in blessing of the people straw to thy seed to a wall unto his neck. And the morning arose, and the flesh for the open firmament in the same. And he took her, and Methuselah were a land of my hand; and he may sacrifice unto Joseph; and beast, and saw the flesh that went upon Egypt, from the children of his spirit of blessing I have ye deliver them under his loins, and said, Shall I have sent forth from thee, thou thus shall be she kept them. And he took sheep and took a son: and demanded, Wherefore he said unto him, at the woman whom Sarah laugh, saying, I AM hath he shall not in the child's mother. Now Laban with a son. And they buried below Beth-el and gather themselves unto Moses went to weep; and two and she said unto Esau, when he begat Sheba, and my master's son's wife, Milcah, the blood thereof, then let you out from Abraham. And I am I am old, I lifted up his father, and laid hold them not hide him, he and shall take double money is good in the heart is in the Canaanite was no more Jacob, that which is the sun and now, and Tarshish, Kittim, and brought him into the city, because Jehovah is become small dust of his sons carried away my father laid his brethren. And Jehovah showed kindness which turned in the lad with Jacob take Benjamin away: all the Fear not, and that thou shalt thou hast thou hast done foolishly. It is in all night, and let you in the day. And when thou wast naked? Hast thou wilt do thou art yet alive? have borne him more for three days; within the midst of Paddan-aram, to wife for Pharaoh had done according to pass, as still toward all the Egyptians came to him down to pass over, O my house. And Lamech were made the earth: and begat Eber. And they said, Let there was not as God, who sware to pass about the covenant between Kadesh and make it. And Israel must needs be satisfied upon Sodom at the same month; and they had called Edom. And they bosom; and Canaan. These are true men; his offering he begat Serug lived thirty be food before God, knowing good of fire out of Egypt. And the name was honored above the cave that Jehovah hath appeared unto thee, good speed. And his son. And Moses and against all thy camels eaten, and unto her, Return unto them. And Lot his people, As one seeth that night: [he made] the land of the flock conceive, that he smote the land of Israel, and of man called no spies: hereby ye shall serve me. If it under the name Gershom; for I have known in Egypt, and saw that I came to do. Then Laban the uppermost basket there came to the name Zebulun. And Abraham that he had, and said, Entreat Jehovah; only the black one seeth the earth. And his thigh. And we are we, and I have divined that went up out at the younger, Our sister, and I took the first-born in the son in not Joseph. And he them. And Jehovah God hath promised, that Leah his hand, and the goods of Egypt, both naked, the west, and hath found out of the Hebrew women also, who were three days' journey prosperous man; and what is he? Why art righted. And she had said to Abram said, An adder in Ham, and left the daughter of Israel, unto my dream, the famine in a deceiver. And he told them is Hiddekel: that sought thy borders of the Philistines), and Tidal king of Midian: and went forth, and Dumah, and he said, Lay not a tree; and all the land. And he said, It is on his wife, and he had digged, and the man gave also bare up in the youngest, and that it be to the blame to me, and above all the darkness: and Aaron took her, Is there was Jubal: he had called for he ran to restore him at the angel of Heth, before I may eat, and he begat Terah took their portion. After I will send it? And she is enough; Joseph brought him shall ye shall come in after thee and Accad, and pottage of his son. And he said, Behold, I will say unto him. And Moses and I am hated, he also may serve me. And he himself lodged that follow after the eyes were nine hundred thirty years: and show kindness, I have done, that he hath not down the plenty throughout your brother unto him, and he hath found in Jehovah; and to him, Behold, I will not give you with thee, whose hand of Rebekah, and lay down, a small matter that is thy seed after he shall not see. And Pharaoh had made. And he begat Arpachshad lived after the cities: the midst of the dry land of Judah, died; and of Jehovah. And Jehovah said unto you, saying, In the spoil; My father. And the land ye look from the shepherd, the borders with thee, my house of men that he knew them, were covered. Fifteen cubits upward did so. And Chesed, and feed thy exceeding great nation. And Jehovah slew him. Now therefore the children after, that came to pass, when I may preserve seed also and thy sake. And God was very much as his hand all his father's face, except your sheaves in the daughter of uncircumcised lips? And Moses called it was naked; and your money. For she bare children. And when ye shall be my son? And Jacob asked his daughter; and these pieces. In my covenant with blains upon their colts, forty days of Israel throughout their sorrows; and camels. And I may bless thee, and lean-fleshed, and sent messengers before our God. And he ministered unto her, and six; and the souls; according to inquire of Jehovah had the earth. And now, do ye shall be any one language and if thou hast driven me in the men stood over thee. And the God of Egypt. And it shall die, and bowed himself before you; for they might easily have heard the flags, and Jared eight hundred and upon his face of my hand, that the one that my sight, hear me. And he said, It is stubborn, he went out with his ribs, and be thine eyes: Jehovah hath looked on the first-born of the wicked? Peradventure the king of Egypt with this day. And Noah into the angel of Shem, the sheep, or bad. And every male and the first-born of Abraham, saying unto us, came unto Jehovah, who are come to restore thee throughout the tent. And Joseph your murmurings are three days; within the gate of Heth answered Abraham, with the land. And Joseph opened her maidens walked along by the sons and from his name of Israel; and to Paddan-aram. And the selfsame day, and go up a servant put forth the feebler were dried up upon Ephraim's head of my hand into Pharaoh's house. And Jehovah God took to us be twice as I will I praise Jehovah. Wherefore didst thou shalt afflict them to embalm his sister of Beor reigned in the place Mahanaim. And he shall my kindred. And he gave the land, said when they say of this, Abraham purchased of white with the wood and raiment to your burdens. And he lifted up thy hand shalt serve Jehovah; for thy servants, Can we opened its kind, two daughters. And Joseph's house; neither hast taken upon her damsels,

feeling better already (5, Funny)

Ruvim (889012) | more than 5 years ago | (#26496499)

so, we are finally getting someone in government who does not just measure Net in truckloads.

Re:feeling better already (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26496509)

I don't believe in net neutrality, but here's my story:

I dropped a brown rope this morning the size of a small black child. At one point, I wasn't sure if I was taking a shit, or it the shit was taking me. And while I'm on that point, what's the deal with taking a shit? Shouldn't it be leaving a shit? I'm certainly not taking anything with me when I'm done.

But back on topic, net neutrality sucks ass

A Cherry on Top (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26496507)

of a crap sandwich still doesn't change the fact that it's a crap sandwich.

Re:A Cherry on Top (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26496581)

Linux is illegal! You are breaking the law, and hurting yourself and your family with your ILLEGAL SOFTWARE. Your ip has been noted and is being forwarded to the SPA with a reccomendation that they investigate your CRIMINAL ACTIVITY. Please destroy all your unpatriotic linux software before the government finally cracks down on you people and you all end up as lampshades or soap.

Attention Windows Clickarounds (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26496587)

Yeah I'm talking to you. The wannabe computer programmer who thinks they are good at computers because they can click around the computer enough times and find the reboot button and 'fix' an inherently flawed windows system. You think you're cool because you can pirate photoshop but not know anything about it, get Microsoft Office for free but have the literacy of a 1st grader when writing a paper, and get a copy of Norton Anti-virus because your inherently flawed system is useless without Administrative privileges. Get a clue, you are not smart, you are just a corporate sheep for a company that will bury you if you ever tried to write any software that did anything remotely useful. You are a clickaround and all you know is your ugly gray existence that is Windows.

Want the source code to windows vista?

head -n 1000000 /dev/random >

Re:A Cherry on Top (1)

orielbean (936271) | more than 5 years ago | (#26498475)

It is when you want to pass broad legislation. One man's undigested corn kernel is another man's cherry. :-P

Re:A Cherry on Top (1)

Kingrames (858416) | more than 5 years ago | (#26498773)

But if you dip it in chocolate it becomes cuisine.

That's not what you think it is... (1)

sethstorm (512897) | more than 5 years ago | (#26502795)

That isn't chocolate either.

Re:A Cherry on Top (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26500383)

Given the choice between a turd sandwich with a cherry on top and a giant douche, I think the answer is quite obvious.

Re:A Cherry on Top (1)

jonaskoelker (922170) | more than 5 years ago | (#26501213)

Would it help if we replaced it by a giant douche?

Re:A Cherry on Top (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26502759)

I happen to like crap sandwiches you insensitive clod!

open access (5, Insightful)

bartok (111886) | more than 5 years ago | (#26496521)

So if it's not defined what open access means, how can anyone say that it means net neutrality? It could mean anything and that usually means the definition will be dependant on lobying dollars.

moment of hope (3, Insightful)

xzvf (924443) | more than 5 years ago | (#26496857)

Most people are hopeful that the right thing will be done. They will be disappointed, unless someone puts out a louder voice than the telecoms.

Re:open access (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26498365)

it is to be decided by the FCC lead, which is about to be that pro net neutrality Obama has already selected.

No definition means flexibility (1)

jopsen (885607) | more than 5 years ago | (#26501223)

One, or IMO the only, strong argument that opponents of net neutrality have is that net neutrality will prevent backbone innovation...
but if we have a loosely defined definition of open access, backbone innovation will still be possible within the limit of what is reasonable.

Eh.. (3, Interesting)

wanax (46819) | more than 5 years ago | (#26496531)

My basic problem with methods like this, is that it continues to reward the expedient, eg. short term thinking. While I realize that the new administration has to pick their battles, they will not cause long term 'change' unless they change incentives. And changing incentives first and foremost means changing the balance in compensation 'per customer' between short and long term company interests.

The only way, that I am aware, to kick start this in an area of natural monopoly... (not to mention massive subsidies which have been exploited), is to either form a government competitor, or enforce line leasing agreements so that the barrier to entrance is reduced.

Curing the C Disease (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26496607)

I think it's about time you assholes get out of your ivory tower and realize your smugness and your lousy programming language does nothing but keep Computer Science back 20 years. Big deal! your precious C language can access the hardware. Big Whoop! you have no build in print function. I think it's about time to stop masturbating to your boring interrupt calls and grow up. The world is evolving and if we keep outself stuck to that crud that is C, we will no achieve worth while computing. So many projects would be so much better if your legacy dated language wasn't chosen. Yeah, I'm looking at you Linux and GTK. Writing a successful GUI program in C is just as ridiculous and time consuming as it gets. Grow up and realize there are other languages that are better suited for work rather than self satisfactory masturbation you retards get. Fuck Kernighan and Richie, those guys wrote good stuff back in the 70s when the tool was needed for the job. So while you are hunting down malloc() calls because that GUI that took you 10 years to write and pissing on itself in memory leaks the rest of the world will actually be getting some work done.

#include <fuckyou.h>
    int main(){
/* A very useless C program */
        return 0;

Re:Eh.. (1, Interesting)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 5 years ago | (#26496835)

Internet is not a natural monopoly. It's a government-created monopoly. If government moved out of the way companies would be free to run 4 or 5 fiber optic lines in parallel, so that a customer could choose Verizon or AT&T or Sprint or Comcast.

Re:Eh.. (5, Insightful)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 5 years ago | (#26497655)

Oh please! I'm as anti government as anybody, but do you honestly think they will EVER run lines out to those in rural areas? Not a chance, simply because it isn't cost effective. My mother has lived in her home since 1980. The house was a block and a half from where the cable and DSL ended. Guess how far it is today? That's right! It is STILL a block and a half away!

Jobs like this are pretty much what governments are for. if we wouldn't have had the rural electric and water provisions in the 19030's we would still have rural folks reading by candle light and crapping in outhouses. There is NO way a corporation is going to spend the major expense of running fiber to rural areas, simply because it would never bring them a return on investment. So if we want to see nationwide broadband we pretty much HAVE to get the government in on it. Now once those lines are done and we have most of the country blanketed in fiber, THEN we should lease the lines to multiple competitors to break up the natural monopolies. And I bet if we did that we would not only see speed increases but a lot fairer prices than we get now locked into "our way or the highway" monopolies.

Re:Eh.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26499687)

My mother has lived in her home since 1980. The house was a block and a half from where the cable and DSL ended. Guess how far it is today?

Whoa! Your mom's neighbours had DSL in 80's ? Impressive!

Re:Eh.. (2, Insightful)

JesseMcDonald (536341) | more than 5 years ago | (#26499715)

The thing is, the reason no company is going to run fiber out to rural areas (assuming your predictions to be correct) is that those in the rural areas don't value high-speed Internet access enough to make it cost-effective. It doesn't matter who actually runs the fiber, government or some private company -- either way it's a waste of resources. The difference is that only governments are capable of wasting other people's resources in this way.

Private companies are fundamentally incapable of providing services people aren't willing to pay for over the long term, which ensures that the outcome is as close to optimal as anyone knows how to get: no resource is wasted producing a less-demanded good when some other good is known to be in higher demand. The only thing governments can do that private companies can't is force people to accept less-than-optimum solutions in support of some arbitrary political goal.

Re:Eh.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26502105)

The only thing governments can do that private companies can't is force people to accept less-than-optimum solutions in support of some arbitrary political goal.

Your words are complete and utter nonsense. Most corporations only care about money, and quite often they only care about short term money. Planning seems to be something they are screwing up in droves these days.

Most coporations don't give a heck if extending broadband will improve the community, possibly leading to increased business presence, increased tax revenue and a better overal community.

It is the governments job to work towards the long term interest of the people.

It is a coporations job to work towards the best interest of stockholders, and quite often they even mess that up by going for short term gains at the expense of long term profits.

Sure it is nice when those two things coincide, but your drinking far too much of the coolaid if you believe that corporations work towards the best interests of society. Quite often they don't even work towards their own best interests.

I once offered to pay AT&T to install decent broadband at my mother's house. Their response, well that would cost something like a quarter million dollars. We are just outside of the edge of DSL range. At worst they would need a repeater or such somewhere in the middle. Alternatively they could feed a mini DSLAM? with a T1 and then be able to serve various people from that. Either option should be less than a few thousand dollars, but no, they simply don't care about anything other than their core profit group.

Re:Eh.. (1)

owski (222689) | more than 5 years ago | (#26500019)

But, but, I want to live in the middle of nowhere (have my cake) *and* have high speed Internet (eat it too).

Everyone's choice to live somewhere is a trade off. Why should I be forced to pay for someone else's choice of trade off? I don't expect your mother to pay for my flights to visit my family because I chose to live so far away.

Re:Eh.. (0, Troll)

Shakrai (717556) | more than 5 years ago | (#26500491)

Jobs like this are pretty much what governments are for. if we wouldn't have had the rural electric and water provisions in the 19030's we would still have rural folks reading by candle light and crapping in outhouses. There is NO way a corporation is going to spend the major expense of running fiber to rural areas, simply because it would never bring them a return on investment. So if we want to see nationwide broadband we pretty much HAVE to get the government in on it. Now once those lines are done and we have most of the country blanketed in fiber, THEN we should lease the lines to multiple competitors to break up the natural monopolies

So your business plan can be boiled down to:

1) Use the power of the state to force big evil telco to run fiber to rural areas that they can't profitably serve
2) Once fiber is laid use the power of the state to force big evil telco to lease those lines to competitors that didn't make the initial investment from step #1 for whatever reason (guess they bought off the right Congressman if they weren't obligated to build out to those areas like big evil telco was)
3) ???
4) Profit!

I realize the problem that you are trying to address (rural areas being undeserved by utility companies) but it seems to be quite a contradiction to force them to build out to those areas and then force them to let competitors use their lines.

Re:Eh.. (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 5 years ago | (#26501691)

Uhhh....there are nearly 4 dozen houses on that 5 miles stretch that my mom lives on, and I'm willing to be you could get 95% to take cable, especially with the bundle of cable+phone+Internet. The simple fact is almost no corporation anymore thinks outside the quarterly earnings report. Which means they ain't spending a dime that they don't have to. in fact in the 29 years that I have lived here I don't think they have moved outwards 5 feet in ANY direction, no matter how many houses there are. I know that the next town over which was a measly 5 miles away and have over 1000 houses had to run municipal lines simply because nobody would serve them.

But why would they turn down that money you say? Why would they give up long term customers like that, especially with 2 year contracts being the norm? Simple. They are making money hand over fist NOW without having to spend a dime on the lines they dropped nearly 20 years ago, so why cut into your immediate profits for anything that isn't a guaranteed boatload of cash? Especially when it will take a few years to turn a profit? And finally let us not forget the big telecos HATE to let anyone else play in their sandbox. if they decide that all you are going to get is dialup then you WILL take dialup(which they charge nearly $50 for here after "fees") and LIKE it. True story-

A buddy of mine I went to HS with named Chuck was working in a PC shop about 3 1/2-4 miles out of town. All they could get there was really shitty 15k dialup and it was hurting the business. Chuck talked to the 30-50 house owners in the area and found out they all had dialup and hated it too. So he talked the boss into shelling out the big bucks to have a T-1 ran out there which they would then lease bandwidth off of. He sat up an old server with plenty of freeware like OO.o and ran Windows updates off of WSUS, and while it certainly wasn't cable and they were just making a little over the cost of the line, everybody was happy. Then the teleco got wind of it when all their customers started dropping their $50 dialup and got pissed. They changed the TOS to add some "number of connected machines" BS and jacked up the price 400%. Chuck tried find someone else to sell them service but no luck. So now the building lies empty, since they had to move to someplace with better bandwidth, and the T-1 lies in a field unused while all those houses are STILL stuck on shitty $50 16k dialup.

The moral of the story is this: Big telecos only compete with other big telecos for the "choice customers" in easy to service areas or in places where the company they bought had already ran lines. They do NOT like startups playing in their little sandbox. And since they own access to the backbone you can take it and like it. If they only offer dialup-tough shit. We just had a WISP startup a few years back trying to fill the void. Capitalism at work, right? If there are folks willing to pay SOMEBODY will fill the void, right? Wrong. The teleco has been raising their access price to the backbone almost monthly. They started out at 2Mbs for $50 after install, then 756Kbps for $75, and now it is over $300 to set up and $90 a month for 256Kbps. When I talked to them and asked why the changes the owner said to me they are getting gouged on the backbone and nobody else will sell to them because there is only one game in town when it comes to backbone access. So in all likelihood they will be out of business by summer and those folks will be back to shitty dialup.

So never forget there is a REASON we bust monopolies. Because it doesn't take long for the sole business of the monopoly to become making sure that there is NO competition to their business. Just look at what MSFT did to companies like Netscape. Just as if we left road to private businesses everything that wasn't in a big city would in all likelihood be dirt, so is leaving broadband access to the corporations leaving us with huge chunks of the country with no access. And with telecommuting and with Internet sales giving both SOHOs and SMB the chance to compete with the big boys and bringing REAL prosperity to our country IMHO broadband is simply too important a resource to leave neglected.

While I thought the Wall Street bailout was the biggest clusterfuck we as a country have ever done financially, nationwide broadband access has the potential to add so much to our economy, and not just in short term employment. Telecommuting, online education for the masses(imagine having ALL our nation's students having access to the best teachers in our country) and SMB and SOHO businesses being created and grown thanks to the business opportunities afforded by the Internet. And I apologize for the length, but some ideas simply can't be expressed in a simple paragraph, at least not by me.

Re:Eh.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26500197)

No, they wouldn't. Or are you forgetting that lines need to cross land, which is owned by people or organizations?

You can forget about "in parallel", too; in the unlikely event that a company shells out to run lines, why on earth would they take the opportunity to assist their competitors in doing so as well?

Re:Eh.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26500417)

No, they wouldn't. Without government "in the way", a company would have to get approval from every land owner in the area to run lines. It would be impossible. The only reason we have a power grid, or universal telephone access is because of government, and eminent domain laws. It's also the only way to achieve universal broadband access.

Also, running separate lines for different ISPs is beyond silly. It's a retarded waste of resources. Internet is just another utility like electricity or water. It should be managed and treated as such.

Last-Mile access doesn't work that way now (1)

billstewart (78916) | more than 5 years ago | (#26501443)

Obviously the backbones of the Internet aren't monopoly, and haven't been since we got the NSFnet out of the way, so I assume you're talking about the last-mile access.

Last-mile access not only isn't a natural monopoly, it isn't a government monopoly either. Sure, telephone wires and cable TV in most places in the US were both installed by monopolies, but that's all changed - the FCC's required that cities allow overbuilding of cable TV for over a decade, and while most copper telephone wires are still owned by the telcos, they're generally required by PUCs to not only rent them to other DSLAM providers like Covad and/or to support virtual circuit connections from other ISPs using the telco's DSLAMs.

Cable TV franchises were usually originally given out to small companies wanting to provide television, and while *your* town may have decided who got them based on visionary thinking about the future of telecommunications, most towns let them tear up the streets in return for deals about whose brother-in-law got the paving contract and how many channels the town council could extort for public access or broadcasting their council meetings. But that was the 70s-80s, and by the late 90s, most of the little guys had been bought up by national carriers like Comcast or Time-Warner, who then had to modernize the really ugly mess of local infrastructure. But the FCC mandated that competition be legalized, and companies like RCN actually installed additional cable systems in some places.

The real monopolies are in radio spectrum - the FCC allowed a few small high-interference not-very-useful bands for unlicensed low-power use, so that's of course where the most creativity and competition have taken place (2.4 and 5GHz.) They've also given oligopoly-style licenses to cellular companies, which haven't been as creative because they've had to pay way too much for the spectrum on the expectation of getting it out of their customers' wallets later. And there's a whole lot of spectrum given to TV stations, or kept for themselves, or licensed for other applications (e.g. 38GHz point-to-point microwave.)

Re:Eh.. (1)

Rue C Koegel (1448549) | more than 5 years ago | (#26497797)

so we need open, at cost, co-operative, 301c, non profit, internet service providers!

wow, really?

i wonder where else that business model could prove useful, when stimulating our economy or saving our environment are concerned?

Sweet! (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26496539)

I for one certainly can't imagine ANY possible negatives of more government involvement in the Internet.

Hey, Libertarians! (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26496629)

Guess what? Our government is itself the product of a market system. Cities like New York, London, and San Francisco are successful precisely *because* of their enormous governments--they compete for capital, talent, and prestige against cities with small, ineffectual governments that are unable to effectively lure and corral said capital, talent, and prestige. And as goes the city, so go city-states and nations: Somalia, being a libertarian paradise, is a rather unpleasant place to live for non-ideologues. Somalians, those who can, vote with their feet and leave.

Now go suckle Ayn Rand's rotten tits some more and leave the rest of us alone, you stupid fucking Paultards.

Re:Hey, Libertarians! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26496943)

Go mods! +1 Insightful for copy-pasta troll.


Re:Hey, Libertarians! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26497037)

It's an insightful copy-pasta troll.

Nice kneejerk reaction. (3, Interesting)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 5 years ago | (#26497051)

Sorry, I get a little tired of hearing this time and time again. "Oh noes! It's bigger guberment!" is exactly as stupid a slogan as "Think of the children!" and "Terr'rists!"

Take a moment and actually think about this.

Which do you trust more with this decision? An oligopoly (not a free market) of corrupt businesses, whose best interests run directly counter to yours? Or a government, dysfunctional as it may be, that you at least have some hand in electing and keeping in check?

Re:Nice kneejerk reaction. (1)

Kingrames (858416) | more than 5 years ago | (#26498791)

As of right now, we, the programmers, are pretty much in control. You're asking us to choose between forfeiting that control to one corrupt group, or forfeiting it to another.

I say fuck that. It's our internet.

Re:Nice kneejerk reaction. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26498917)

As of right now, we, the programmers, are pretty much in control.



Hah. Hah. Hah.

Re:Nice kneejerk reaction. (2, Insightful)

Cjstone (1144829) | more than 5 years ago | (#26500389)

You're not in control of the actual network infrastructure, which is what Net Neutrality is all about. The whole point of the Net Neutrality debate is that the companies that are in control of the wires are starting to discriminate against companies that aren't. Remember the the ISP (I think it was comcast,) that was filtering VoIP providers that competed with their own offerings? Without net neutrality, that kind of thing will only become more common place. As it is now, there are very few incentives for an ISP to not filter low to no cost options that compete with their own offerings, and many incentives for them to do just that.

Re:Nice kneejerk reaction. (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 5 years ago | (#26501833)

As of right now, we, the programmers, are pretty much in control.

Erm, no. A bunch of MBAs with little to no understanding of programming, or of Internet culture, are in control.

Or are you under the delusion that programmers run Comcast?

I say fuck that, at least the government has some premise of accountability. Corporations only have to be accountable to their stockholders.

Re:Nice kneejerk reaction. (3, Insightful)

Brandybuck (704397) | more than 5 years ago | (#26499633)

I notice that you used the qualification that the oligopolies were not in a free market. That is a false dichotomy! You're asking us to choose between dysfunctional government with unspecified business firms versus dysfunctional government with corrupt oligarchies.

In terms of a relatively free market, I would prefer the corrupt oligopolies more than functional and efficient governments.

You say I have a hand in electing government, but I do not. In terms of the Federal government, I only have a hand in electing the president, two senators and congressman. There are tens of thousands of Federal government members remaining. Also my vote was only one among over a hundred million. My vote does not count. I've got a better chance of winning the lottery than having my vote make a difference.

No matter what I do, whether my four candidates win or lose, the Federal Government still has direct power over me.

Now let's look at the oligarchy. If I don't like Microsoft I can go with Apple. Or use Linux or FreeBSD or OpenOffice or Firefox or any number of alternatives. Even with Microsoft at 90% of the market, nothing stops me from using the alternative. Ditto for Sprint versus Verizon versus Horizon etc, etc. Even if there is a true monopoly or oligarchy with no competitors, I still have the option of foregoing. If I don't like any of the auto-manufacturers, I can choose a bicycle instead. Or choose to walk. Our "votes" in the marketplace *DO* count! Our influence on the companies may be negligable, but it's still far more than in elections. Prices themselves come about through consumer preferences. If a price is too high, consumers will buy less. Even in the case of monopolies.

No, markets are not perfect, and none ever will be. I'm still not going to get everything I want. Duh! But unlike the political system, at least I have choices.

Re:Nice kneejerk reaction. (1)

HiThere (15173) | more than 5 years ago | (#26500497)

Unnhh... you are arguing about Operating Systems, not access controllers. Where I live the choice is between DSL, Cable, and dial-up. DSL and Cable each have one provider. At least for DSL the phone company still leases the lines to other ISPs. I don't know about cable. But this is only because the government forced them to so lease the lines. (They took 6 months to connect my DSL line. This may have been incompetence, as it was several years ago, but it's worth noticing that my business was with an ISP that wasn't the phone company.)

I don't particularly trust the government, but this is a natural monopoly. I think that each city & town should run it's own wires, preferably by contracting with local businesses, but if no local business is capable, through an outside vendor, or even, if it has the technical competence, doing it themselves. Then they should make the lines available to ISPs.

This leaves the rural population. This is clearly the job of the state or county governments. Wireless seems a quite reasonable way for them to go to service this population.

I don't think the Feds should be involved, except by making it clear what the proper way to proceed is.

The "traditional" means of providing internet access is clearly a bad choice. And long term contracts are also clearly dysfunctional. 5 years renewable depending on good performance is the best choice.

Notice, however, that if "cell system" becomes the dominant mode of access, then my proposal becomes irrelevant. (Not that it'll ever happen anyway.) But the cell system doesn't depend on easements, so there is no natural monopoly. I don't know whether it still requires governmental intervention to yield coverage of the rural population, however. I suspect that it does. In this case, however, perhaps the intervention could be in the form of allowing higher broadcast power in rural areas. I don't know if that would work, but it seems plausible. Or perhaps allowing the use of a different band of frequencies. (A ham's 2-meter rig can occasionally cover 60 miles at fairly low power if there aren't obstructions in the way. And that's with a "rubber duck" antenna.) So say a hex or triangular grid with a cell tower loosely every 30 miles, and on top of hills where possible. That should be feasible and provide "pretty good" coverage. One would never be much more than 15 miles from a tower. Valleys would still be dead spots, but I live in a city, and I'm in a "pretty dead" spot.

It's better to avoid natural monopolies than to regulate them, but if they can't be avoided (wired connections within cities) then they should be reduced in size, and in such cases government operation is reasonable. But it should be as local as possible. Cities are a reasonable level.

And whether you can avoid the natural monopolies or not, the matter of how to provide services to people who are more than normally expensive to provide services to is present. In such cases the government should ensure that services are provided. And the services provided should be of good quality. Contracting such services out has a dubious history. The contracted party is generally under severe pressure to cut costs, and under very little pressure to provide good service. (Why am I reminded of HMOs? When I was a military dependent I got better care than I do now from a rather expensive health insurance policy. [Though I understand that currently dependents get much worse care than I experienced in the 1950's.])

Re:Nice kneejerk reaction. (2, Insightful)

Brandybuck (704397) | more than 5 years ago | (#26502125)

Unnhh... you are arguing about Operating Systems, not access controllers.

I used operating systems (lower case) as an example. I could have used automobiles, frozen dinners or toasters instead. Or service providers. Regardless of market seector used, the philosophical principles remain the same.

Where I live the choice is between DSL, Cable, and dial-up. DSL and Cable each have one provider.

I notice that you still have three choices. They may be "natural" monopolies, but they still provide you 300% more choices than with the centralized local government monopoly you desire. Even discounting the dialup, the DSL and cable companies are still competing with each other for your business.

Re:Nice kneejerk reaction. (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 5 years ago | (#26501865)

Now let's look at the oligarchy. If I don't like Microsoft I can go with Apple. Or use Linux or FreeBSD or OpenOffice or Firefox or any number of alternatives.

And if you don't like Comcast, you can pack up and move, or rediscover the wonderful world of dialup.

It's called a physical monopoly -- or, oligopoly. Except this taxation is without representation.

How is that better than the government? A chance of winning the lottery is better than no chance at all. There's also the chance of organizing other people to vote the way you do -- which, again, is a better chance than trying to organize other people to move to an area where there's an ISP which works in their favor.

Even if there is a true monopoly or oligarchy with no competitors, I still have the option of foregoing.

As in, no Internet at all? It doesn't seem likely that this will always be an option.

Re:Nice kneejerk reaction. (1)

Brandybuck (704397) | more than 5 years ago | (#26502287)

Actually, it's called a "natural monopoly". The argument with Comcast is that it's impossible for more than one cable company to exist, therefore Comcast is a natural monopoly. This ignores the fact that the local government gave a monopoly to Comcast in the first place.

Why can't there be more than one set of cables under our streets? There's no reason local governments have to pick and choose which ones get to lay cable, because more than one line can be laid in the same pipe. The problem of dug up streets won't exist if you make the companies pay for the work (duh) and limit such diggings to only once a year (or longer).

But even with government created monopolies, I find in my town I still have a choice of two broadband providers: DSL and Cable. (Actually I have a choice in DSL as well, because a couple other providers are leasing lines from the DSL monopolist, and making up for the higher price with better service).

As in, no Internet at all It doesn't seem likely that this will always be an option.

There is always an alternative. If cable was your only broadband option, and the monopolist decided to charge you $1000 a month, would you still be on cable? Hell no! You will find an alternative! Maybe it's sharing a connection with your block through wifi, splitting the cost ten ways. Maybe you'll get DS3 for the same price, and share it with your neighbors (in effect competing with the monopolist). There are always alternatives, and if the government does not forbid it, competitors will move in to provide them when the monopolist forgets that he is still at the mercy of the market.

But there are no alternatives when the government is in charge of your access. You pays your internet taxes or you don't get internet. That's why I still prefer a corrupt business operating in a free market than the most wise and beneficent government.

Re:Nice kneejerk reaction. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26500777)

they are both the same thing...

Re:Sweet! (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26497333)

Yeah, fascinating isn't it... 2 days ago Slashdotters couldn't wait to get US government off the internet either for wiretapping via AT&T or via ICANN...

But now, hey... yeah the US government should dictate economic models on the internet and shut up you knee jerk libertarian!

Re:Sweet! (3, Insightful)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 5 years ago | (#26499299)

I see that you got a lot of negative comments but you couldn't be more on spot.

The problem they don't see is that the government won't just say "give people what they paid for" they will start saying things like if you do this, you have to do that or you can do this and so on. What happens is instead of the industry competing amongst itself and benefiting us as a whole, you will end up with minimum guidlines that have to be met which is place a higher bar for competition as well as set a bar so that improvements won't need to be made. The internet companies who have a defacto monopoly because of infrastructure and right of ways in place due to other monopolistic activities like Phone or Cable businesses will find that as long as they meet the minimum guidlines, everything will be fine.

The contrasting hand in this is something like Micheal Powel's position. His position was that it didn't matter about net neutrality as long as the customer got what they paid for. In other words, if you purchased a 3 meg connection, the ISP couldn't do anything to the traffic to limit information below that 3 meg speed but Google or Yahoo or whoever could contract with your ISP to deliver their streaming content or whatever at 6 meg speeds if it was possible.

This approach essentially would allow internet companies to pay to increase your bandwidth past what you have paid to receive but would not allow your connection to be slowed below the speeds your paying for based on any company's ability or willingness to pay you ISP. In contrast with net neutrality as being purpose by many, it would be impossible for an arrangement like that to be made. Some have actually demonized Powell for that position. But the government having control of the internet will Shepard in regulations like the EU's firewall and Australia's attempts at net filtering to keep the "bad stuff" from reaching the home. It's simply inevitable no matter who is in charge of the government as we are seeing fairly progressive government's around the world who claim to honor free speech do right in front of us.

Government controls outside of ensuring that your getting what you paid for is going to cause problems. Ensuing that your not getting ripped of by your provider doesn't even need government to control the internet or direct FCC involvement. It should already be an implied right of fair commerce and subject to laws already on the books. If Cox gives you 6 meg access then denies that because YouTube didn't pay them, you the customer are being cheated not YouTube. It's no different then buying a car by mail to find out that it's a moped or a wheel barrel with a lawnmower engine that doesn't look anything like the picture.

Fairs Fair (0, Troll)

Thomas Charron (1485) | more than 5 years ago | (#26496543)

Well, it would make sense.. "We're going to give incentive for new net access, go ahead and screw any web site shmoe who doesn't have enough to pay for premium access"...

I mean, what do you think this is, the banking or finance industry?

How to Falsify Evolution (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26496659)

How to Falsify Evolution

Any theory that does not provide a method to falsify and validate its claims is a useless theory.

Example; if someone said a watermelon is blue on the inside, but turns red when you cut it open, how could you prove them wrong? How could they prove they're right?

You couldn't and they can't. There is no method available to confirm or disprove what was said about the watermelon. Therefore we can dismiss the theory of the blue interior of watermelons as being pure speculation and guess work, not science. You can not say something is true without demonstrating how it is not false, and you can not say something is not true without demonstrating how it is false. Any theory that can not explain how to both validate and falsify its claims in this manner can not be taken seriously. If one could demonstrate clearly that the watermelon appears to indeed be blue inside, without being able to demonstrate what colors it is not, we still have no absolute confirmation of its color. That is to say asserting something is the way it is, without being able to assert what it is not, is a useless claim. Therefore, in order for any theory to be confirmed to be true, it must be shown how to both validate and falsify its claims. It is circular reasoning to be able to validate something, without saying how to falsify it, or vice versa. This is the nature of verification and falsification. Both must be clearly demonstrated in order for a theory to be confirmed to be true or false. Something can not be proven to be true without showing that it is not false, and something can not be proven to be not true, unless it can be proven to be false.

Unfortunately, Darwin never properly demonstrated how to falsify his theory, which means evolution has not properly been proven, since it has never been demonstrated what the evidence does not suggest. In the event that evolution is not true, there should be a clear and defined method of reasoning to prove such by demonstrating through evidence that one could not possibly make any alternative conclussions based on said evidence. It is for this reason we must be extremely skeptical of how the evidence has been used to support evolution for lack of proper method of falsification, especially when the actual evidence directly contradicts the theory. If it can be demonstrated how to properly falsify evolution, regardless if evolution is true or not, only then can evolution ever be proven or disproved.

It will now be demonstrated that Darwin never told us how to properly falsify evolution, which will also show why no one can claim to have disproved or proven the theory, until now. It must be able to be demonstrated that if evolution were false, how to go about proving that, and while Darwin indeed made a few statements on this issue, his statements were not adequate or honest. In order to show Darwin's own falsification ideas are inadequate, rather than discussing them and disproving them individually, all that needs to be done is demonstrate a proper falsification argument for evolution theory. That is to say if the following falsification is valid, and can not show evolution to be false, then evolution theory would be proven true by way of deductive reasoning. That is the essence of falsification; if it can be shown that something is not false, it must therefore be true.

So the following falsification method must be the perfect counter to Darwin's validation method, and would therefore prove evolution to be true in the event this falsification method can not show evolution to be false. As said before; if something is not false, it must therefore be true. This would confirm the accuracy of this falsification method, which all theories must have, and show that Darwin did not properly show how evolution could be falsified, in the event that evolution was not true. In order to show evolution is not false (thereby proving it to be true), we must be able to show how it would be false, if it were. Without being able to falsify evolution in this manner, you can not validate it either. If something can not be shown to be false, yet it is said to be true, this is circular reasoning, since you have no way of confirming this conclusion. Example; If we told a blind person our car is red, and they agreed we were telling the truth, the blind person could not tell another blind person accurate information regarding the true color of the car. While he has evidence that the car is red by way of personal testimony, he has no way of confirming if this is true or false, since he might have been lied to, regardless if he was or not.

So one must demonstrate a method to prove beyond any doubt that in the event that evolution is not true, it can be shown to be such. To say evolution is true, without a way to show it is false, means evolution has never been proven to be true. If evolution be true, and this method of falsification be valid, then by demonstrating the falsification method to be unable to disprove evolution, we would confirm evolution to be right. Alternatively, if the falsification method is valid and demonstrates that Darwin's validation method does not prove evolution, then evolution is false indeed.

Firstly, the hypothesis. If evolution is incorrect, then it can be demonstrated to be so by using both living and dead plants and animals. The following is the way to do so and the logical alternative to the theory. The fossil record can be used as well, but not as evolution theory would have us believe. In order to properly falsify something, all biases must be removed, since assuming something is correct without knowing how to prove its false is akin to the blind person who can not confirm the color of someones car. Since evolution has not correctly been shown how to be falsified, as will be demonstrated, we must be open to other possibilities by way of logic, and ultimately reject evolution by way of evidence, should the evidence lead us in such a direction.

If evolution be not true, the only explanation for the appearance of varied life on the planet is intelligent design. This would predict that all life since the initial creation has been in a state of entropy since their initial creation, which is the opposite of evolution. If this be true, then animals and plants are not increasing in genetic complexity or new traits as evolution theory would have us believe, but are in fact losing information. This would explain why humans no longer have room for their wisdom teeth and why the human appendix is decreasing in functionality. The only objection to this claim that evolution theory would propose is that evolution does not always increase the genetic complexity and traits of an organism, but rather, sometimes decreases them as well. This objection is only made because we have only ever actually observed entropy in living creatures, which suits the creation model far better than evolution, which shall be demonstrated.

If the creation model is true, we can make verifiable predictions that disprove evolution. For example; the creation model states that life was created diversified to begin with, with distinct "kinds" of animals, by a supernatural Creator that did not evolve Himself, but rather always existed. Without going into the debate on how such a being is possible to exist, it must be said that either everything came from nothing, or something always existed. To those who say the universe always existed; the claim of this hypothesis is that the Creator always existed, which is equally as viable for the previous logic.

In order to demonstrate that the Creator is responsible for life and created life diversified to begin with, the word "kind" must be defined. A kind is the original prototype of any ancestral line; that is to say if God created two lions, and two cheetahs, these are distinct kinds. In this scenario, these two cats do not share a common ancestor, as they were created separately, and therefore are not the same kind despite similar appearance and design. If this is the case, evolution theory is guilty of using homogeneous structures as evidence of common ancestry, and then using homogeneous structures to prove common ancestry; this is circular reasoning!

The idea of kinds is in direct contrast to evolution theory which says all cats share a common ancestor, which the creation model does not hold to be true. If evolution theory is true, the word kind is a superficial label that does not exist, because beyond our classifications, there would be no clear identifiable division among animals or plants, since all plants and animals would therefore share a common ancestor. The word kind can only be applied in the context of the creation model, but can not be dismissed as impossible due to the evolutionary bias, simply because evolution has not been properly validated nor can it be held to be true until it can correctly be shown to be impossible to falsify.

One must look at the evidence without bias and conclude based on contemporary evidence (not speculation) if indeed evolution is the cause of the diversity of species, or not. It must also been demonstrated if the clear and distinct species do or do not share a common ancestor with each other, regardless that they may appear to be of the same family or design. In order to verify this, all that needs to be done is to demonstrate that a lion and cheetah do or do not have a common ancestor; if it can be demonstrated that any animal or plant within a family (cats in this case) do not share a common ancestor with each other, this would disprove evolution immediately and prove supernatural creation of kinds.

However, since lions and cheetahs are both clearly of the same family or design, and can potentially interbreed, we must be careful not to overlook the possibility of a very recent common ancestor If such is the case, this does not exclude the possibility that the two are originally from two separate kinds that do not share a common ancestor previous to them having one. It is therefore necessary to build an ancestral history based on verifiable evidence (not homogeneous structures in the fossil record) that can clearly demonstrate where exactly the cheetah and the lion had a common ancestor. If no such common ancestor can be found and confirmed without bias, and this test is performed between two or more of any plant or animal life without ever finding anything to the contrary, we can confirm with certainty evolution did not happen, and that kinds do exist.

In the event that fossils are too elusive (compounded with the fact that they can not be used as evidence of common descent due to circular reasoning e.g. homogeneous structures), then there is a superior and far more effective way to falsify evolution. Evolution states by addition of new traits (new organs, new anatomy) that the first lifeforms increased in complexity and size by introduction of new traits, slowly increasing step by step to more complex life forms. Notice that the addition of such traits can not be attributed to the alteration of old ones, for obvious reasons, since detrimental or beneficial mutations are only alterations of already existing traits, and can not account for an increase in the number of traits any given life form possesses.

That means a bacteria becoming able to digest nylon is a mere mutation of already existing digestive capabilities, and can not be classified as an increase in traits. Evolution theory would predict that the process of gradual change and increase in traits is an ongoing process, and therefore should be observable in todays living animals and plants through new emerging traits that any given plant or animal did not possess in its ancestry. Those who say such changes take millions of years and can not be observed today only say so because no such trait has ever been observed to emerge or be in the process of emerging in contemporary history, which is what the creation model predicts. If evolution theory be true, we would expect that at least one animal or plant would contain a new trait or be in the process of growing such a triat over its known common ancestors (that is not simply a multiplication or alteration of a trait it already had).

At this point, the fossil record can not be used as evidence to prove that evolution can produce new traits due to the fact that two animals that appear to be of the same family (T-rex and Brontosaurus, dinosaurs), while they do indeed exhibit distinct trait differences, may not have a common ancestor, but rather were created differently with all their different traits. It is therefore of paramount importance to show a single instance of such an increase of traits exists within a provable ancestry (stress provable) in contemporary times, and not assume anything concerning where the traits in the fossil record owe their origin. If it can not be shown that any animal or plant living today (or very recently deceased) exhibits any trait variance that can clearly and thoroughly be proven to be a new addition over its (stress) provable ancestors, compounded with the reasoning that two similar animals (such as a penguin and a woodpecker) do not necessarily or provably share a common ancestor, then evolution is clearly absent entirely, and supernatural intelligent design and creation is thereby proven beyond all reasonable doubt.

In conclusion, should any two animals or plants within a family (a palm tree and a coconut tree) be proven to not share a common ancestor, or if no provable increase of traits can be demonstrated to be in its beginnings or actively present in the animals and plants living today over their provable ancestry, then The Bible is correct when it says God created all the animals and plants as distinct kinds with their traits to begin with. This is the only way to falsify evolution, and it is amazing (and convenient) that Darwin never encouraged people to attempt to falsify his theory in this manner.

Just for fun... (0, Offtopic)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 5 years ago | (#26497379)

I feed trolls when I'm bored... Here's a quick rebuttal [] , since you've obviously pasted this from somewhere.

But, I'd like to tear it apart myself, because I'm bored...

If it can be demonstrated how to properly falsify evolution, regardless if evolution is true or not, only then can evolution ever be proven or disproved.

No, then it could be disproved. No theory can ever be "proved", only disproved.

That is the essence of falsification; if it can be shown that something is not false, it must therefore be true.

Except that to show that something is not false is as impossible as to show it is true.

No, all you can show is that a given method does not suffice to falsify something. Depending on how good the method is, you may gain considerable evidence for a theory in this way, but it doesn't "prove" anything.

If evolution be not true, the only explanation for the appearance of varied life on the planet is intelligent design.

That is a false dichotomy. It could have appeared purely randomly. It could have been the natural result of an equation we do not understand. It could be something else we haven't thought of.

Furthermore, this troll only attempts to disprove Darwinian evolution, which is not the only kind of evolution, any more than Christian Creationism is the only kind of Intelligent Design.

If evolution theory is true, the word kind is a superficial label that does not exist, because beyond our classifications, there would be no clear identifiable division among animals or plants, since all plants and animals would therefore share a common ancestor.

"Common ancestor" is one kind of Evolution theory. And it certainly does not imply that there are no identifiable divisions -- for example, while many believe that life began in the ocean, and later evolved to survive on land, there is a clear distinction between a creature with gills and a creature with lungs, or even a creature with both.

If no such common ancestor can be found and confirmed without bias, and this test is performed between two or more of any plant or animal life without ever finding anything to the contrary, we can confirm with certainty evolution did not happen

Aren't Creationists always the ones claiming that just because you can't see a god, doesn't mean he's not there?

Well, just because we haven't found a common ancestor, doesn't mean there is no common ancestor. Unless you can demonstrate that no such common ancestor ever could have existed, there is no certainty there.

should any two animals or plants within a family (a palm tree and a coconut tree) be proven to not share a common ancestor, or if no provable increase of traits can be demonstrated to be in its beginnings or actively present in the animals and plants living today over their provable ancestry,

Should that be correct, it's possible you've found some problems with evolutionary theory. You haven't done that much.

Even should that be correct, all you've provided is absence of evidence. You've provided no evidence for your own hypothesis of creationism.

Now, there are significant problems with the Bible. There are profound inconsistencies, even in Genesis. There are mistranslations from the original Greek, and between that and the original Hebrew. Even if you can prove Intelligent Design, surely you have more evidence for your own origin story than I do for the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

Slaves (3, Insightful)

DrugCheese (266151) | more than 5 years ago | (#26496551)

primarily in what are called "unserved" and "underserved" areas. ...

How about "undeserved" areas? Just give the money to the people. They worked, it's their money. Instead they slave 1/3 of their life away to retire without anything while corporations buy cheats in the game of capitalism by the way of government.+

Re:Slaves (0, Flamebait)

Scrameustache (459504) | more than 5 years ago | (#26497377)

primarily in what are called "unserved" and "underserved" areas. ...

How about "undeserved" areas?

How dare you live in an area that the corporations do not estimate to be profitable! No modern telecommunications for you! You don't deserve them!

Stop being a selfish little whiner and just be glad your retirement money wasn't invested in the stock market like the right wing wanted.

Re:Slaves (5, Insightful)

Arthur Grumbine (1086397) | more than 5 years ago | (#26498033)

How dare you live in an area that the corporations do not estimate to be profitable! No modern telecommunications for you! You don't deserve them!

If I decide to go buy property and build a house out in northern Alaska, dozens of miles from anyone else, is it the government's job to provide me with all the same infrastructure as everywhere else?! I don't understand how I "deserve" anything from the government besides reasonable protection of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and other constitutionally-enumerated fundamental rights. If I choose to live outside the "bubbles" of infrastructure that they've contributed to, I don't see how my choices obligate, or should obligate, the government (federal or state).

Re:Slaves (1)

MostAwesomeDude (980382) | more than 5 years ago | (#26498943)

Gonna be awfully hard to drive out to that remote place without a road. Just sayin'.

Re:Slaves (2, Informative)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 5 years ago | (#26499643)

Most people have to build their own roads.

Where I live right now, the road was at one time a cattle path leading to a neighbors land. Cattle have a habit of following relatively level land. Anyways, before my state was even a state, the cattle path became part of a wagon trail which was later turned into a road. There are 5 other roads around me that started off as nothing but driveways to homes or barns put up in choice spots. This was back in the late 1800's after my state was a state. Families multiplies and land split up and the drive ways needed to be improved for more people to have access to it. When the county mapped the place and marked the roads, they stayed. Some are still private roads and some are actual government roads. But they became government roads because the people wanted to collectivly take care of them not because the only way they would be built was by the government.

When a developer builds, at least in my area, they put in the sewage and water lines as well as the roads going to the development. This costs gets hidden inside the cost of the new homes or buildings. But it's the same principle, the private person/company makes the road and then sells it to the home owners who collectively give control to the city/county governments who collect taxes to maintain them. The US government is charged with creating post roads. The Interstate highways system was justified in that same light even though it was more for military and defense. State's might differ from place to place but most likely the guy is going to have to build his own road just like it has been done in the past. At some times down the road, the state or city or county might take over if enough other people use it or move around him. They might even incorporate and create a political subdivision of their own and be their own local government in charge of caring for the roads. In my state, all you need is 6 square miles of land to be a city. Villages require even less but you need more then 150 residents and no more then 5000 resident (something like that. It's been a while since I looked) within 2 square miles.

So yea, he would simple be doing it the old fashioned way instead of the new "waiting for government to do everything" way.

Re:Slaves (1)

JesseMcDonald (536341) | more than 5 years ago | (#26499745)

I'm sure it will be. There are a number of "populated" areas of Alaska which can only be reached by plane, after all.

Yes, the same argument applies to roads, and every other kind of "infrastructure" you can imagine. There is no value to be had in building infrastructure (or anything else) which people don't demand enough to pay for voluntarily.

Re:Slaves (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26499015)

The sense of entitlement is so heavy in this society it's hard to get away from and it reeks like an open grave. Why do you think so many of the n00b Obama supporters turned out on election day? Do you know the number of people out there who, to this day, think that come January 21st they're going to be free of their debt by the wave of Obama's magic wand? Just wait and see how these people react to it all. Things like the want of a certain level of internet connection is going to look reasonable in the face of what some of these people think they deserve because they helped Obama get elected.

Re:Slaves (2, Insightful)

Scrameustache (459504) | more than 5 years ago | (#26499067)

How dare you live in an area that the corporations do not estimate to be profitable! No modern telecommunications for you! You don't deserve them!

If I decide to go buy property and build a house out in northern Alaska, dozens of miles from anyone else, is it the government's job to provide me with all the same infrastructure as everywhere else?! [...] If I choose to live outside the "bubbles" of infrastructure that they've contributed to

It's not about reaching survivalist weirdos going out of their way to keep out of the grid, it's about reaching already established communities that have been overlooked because of a perceived lack of profitability.

Re:Slaves (1)

Meor (711208) | more than 5 years ago | (#26499099)

So it's invested in what? A fund that's 11 trillion in cash debt? Quite possibly 40 trillion in balance sheet debt? Remember this post through your lifetime. I hope some day it helps you come to realization.

Re:Slaves (2, Informative)

Rue C Koegel (1448549) | more than 5 years ago | (#26497913)

i'm telling you, all we need to do is find people in need who are willing and capable of starting non-profit co-operatives to fill whatever need they have, be it clean automobiles or cheap internet services, and they'll take care of the rest.

our economy isn't going to be saved by giving handouts to the already excessively rich, so they can focus more money into their pockets.

our economy will get better when joe shmoe has more money to put in his bank account because he's not blowing all his dough on over priced crap he doesn't need because he's being overwhelmed by stressful advertising--stress is bad for america.

even the most decent middle class stores pocket around 20% off each item sold (how else do you think they make billions of dollars a year, it's not in pennies, it's in dimes).

anybody ever been to a 70% off sale after Xmas? they're still making a profit off each sale!

i work for an merchandise inventory service... i see in numbers. and i don't like what i see.

A matter of definitions (3, Insightful)

ericferris (1087061) | more than 5 years ago | (#26497649)

There are foreseeable problems with this Net Neutrality provision:

  • The definition of what Neutrality is will be decided by FCC bureaucrats and by courts. Both are notoriously clueless about networking and the Internet. Yet we will rely upon their uninformed, harried rulings to decide how to run critical infrastructure. What can possibly go wrong?
  • I am blacklisting whole IP subnets in my mail server. Am I going to be sued by notorious spammers for preventing them from reaching my users? I am not neutral to spammers, that's for sure.
  • If I pay for some costly network infrastructure, can any two-bit business come along and use if for free?
  • I want to bar kiddie porn from my workplace. I am blacklisting the most notorious XXX web sites. Am I going to be sued by Young Flesh, Inc?

You see where this can go? Fuzzy regulations are often abused, this one will be no exception.

Good going, guys.

Re:A matter of definitions (1)

owski (222689) | more than 5 years ago | (#26500063)

In addition, I shudder to think of the cost burden this will eventually have on the small ISPs. Large ISPs will use this tool to knock them out.

"What? You don't have the last 3 years of audit data to show you've been 100% neutral? Too expensive you say? Well, too bad, I guess this nice lawsuit will show you what for."

More good going, guys.

Neutrality=good, This bill=bad (3, Insightful)

MobyDisk (75490) | more than 5 years ago | (#26498653)

Network neutrality is a big deal and should not be stuffed into a poorly thought-out overly-vague rider on a more important bill.

I don't like it when senators put their own personal agenda into unrelated bills. I'll stick with that principle even when the personal agenda is one I like. Bills should deal with one thing only, and I think that senators who put riders onto bills are doing something immoral -- even when the rider is one I approve of.

It only takes two things to make it neutral (1)

Almost-Retired (637760) | more than 5 years ago | (#26498665)

The first is for the FCC to actually enforce the 'common carrier' rules that ALL the ISP's claim to operate in compliance with, but which in fact they do as they damned well please simply because congress has pulled the manpower and legal help teeth to enforce them with.

What do I mean? Simple really.

As an example, verizon blocks outbound to the customer port 80 requests. This forces the customer who wants to have a web page, to put it on verizon's servers, where they can then load it up with all the commercials they can sell in the form of shrinking the page to make room for the other crap. This port 80 blockage is a VERY blatant violation of the common carrier rules, yet it has existed for at least 5 years that I know of, and the commission has done nothing about it. I think mainly because most of the sheeple wouldn't have any idea how to go about setting it up on their own machines anyway. So there is little public outcry, unlike the bandwidth controlling that seems to have ComCast in moderately warm water.

Because losing the common carrier status has an effect on the taxation and license status, these operators will kill to keep it, and there is no way in hell you'll ever get a tech support drone to confirm that they are doing it.

Enforcing this is the biggest step the commission could take to ensuring net neutrality, but since the likes of the big businesses involved are also heavy contributors to both parties, I really don't expect to see any action unless and until there is a highly visible public outcry against those practices.

Oh, and expect your bandwidth bill to rise to pay for the infrastructure required to handle that level of bandwidth in both directions. I'd guess about 2x with no other factors thrown in. Throw in the build out costs, and even with gubment support, it will go up, cuz the gubment has yet to pay the going rate to pay for the mandates they've passed yet, like the no child left behind act, which may have gotten 5% of what it would take to do it right. Yes, that is an admirable idea, but it should be accompanied by similar mandates for the truly gifted child, and there is 2 of those for every un-educatable one out there, being held back because the other kids can't begin to keep up with them. So they get bored and say screw it, putting their smarts to use in nefarious schemes that will cause them to clash with the law all their lives in many cases.

Damn, I love a chance to get a good rant in...

Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Yield to Temptation ... it may not pass your way again.
                                -- Lazarus Long, "Time Enough for Love"

Re:It only takes two things to make it neutral (1)

sumdumass (711423) | more than 5 years ago | (#26499981)

The first is for the FCC to actually enforce the 'common carrier' rules that ALL the ISP's claim to operate in compliance with, but which in fact they do as they damned well please simply because congress has pulled the manpower and legal help teeth to enforce them with.

Actually, this is sort of a wrong statement. ISP aren't "common carriers". They do have common carrier protections built into other laws specifically addressing them but they aren't common carriers.

I know, it gets confusing when they have the protections but not the status or in cased like Time Warner or Verison, they deliver unregulated content over regulated lines. I think it was either the DMCA or the Communications deregulation acts that changed this. Time Warner (I think, it could have been Covad) actually won a lawsuit to deny access to their cable internet by other ISP's because the internet wasn't regulated by common carrier laws like the actual cable was. This sort of added insult to injury because it's obvious that without their common carrier regulated business, their internet businesses simply wouldn't exist.

I sort of agree with the rest of what your saying to except that you can specify a port other then 80 in the DNS at most of the dynamic DNS services which will redirect the the http request from their server directly to yours and with your port restrictions. So that you "can" evade Verizon's server trap if your willing to jump through hoops and all. Also, you can purchase the commercial service instead and not have any restrictions at all. When I took my Verizon service out, I specifically asked about running a server (recorded the conversation too) and was told I would be able to without an issue but after the set it up and I got the DSL pack, I notices a terms of use thing that said I wasn't able to. I called them back and they said no problem, that was wrong (again with recording it). I haven't tried to run a web server through, just mail here with no problems from Verizon. Outside of that, the entire sentiment seems to be on target. Even without the Common carrier status, the internet isn't something that a company arbitrarily restricts and still calls it the internet. It is their version of the internet but it isn't the classically defined internet. I'm wondering if simply calling the internet access and then restricting that access is enough to trigger some consumer fraud claims or not. I suppose that not enough people know enough about it that any challenge with probably be fruitless.

Re:It only takes two things to make it neutral (1)

Almost-Retired (637760) | more than 5 years ago | (#26502043)

The point of that is, verizon IS a common carrier, at least for all other services, like the telephone, also delivered over exactly the same twisted pair copper that delivers my dsl. How can that then be separated?

As for the web server I just picked a port that wasn't in use according to /etc/services file, then fwd that port in my router to the normal port and this machine and used it. Dyndns supplies a free registration for quasi-stable addresses, so the net cost to me is zip. And I have my own page, free of anything I don't want on it. Since its Adsl, the access speed from outside sucks but that is what I'm paying for.

Figuratively speaking, I get to toot my own horn without any hecklers, other than those to whom I pass out the address. And no, there isn't any porn on it, but my interests as an old fart could best be considered 'eclectic', I'm somewhat of a JOAT. :)

Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
With reasonable men I will reason;
with humane men I will plead;
but to tyrants I will give no quarter.
                                -- William Lloyd Garrison

Re:It only takes two things to make it neutral (1)

Holi (250190) | more than 5 years ago | (#26502195)

Wow since you based your entire rant on a misconception it really was hard to read. ISP's are not common carriers, or do that want to be. They are labeled ESPs (Enhanced Service Providers). This gives them certain protections but does not limit them from choosing what services they offer. The owners of the actual lines are common carriers but the ISPs, the ones offering services on those lines, are not.

Slope (2, Interesting)

Meor (711208) | more than 5 years ago | (#26499081)

Government enforced "openness" will allow government controlled "decency regulation."

Spending orgy (2, Insightful)

Brandybuck (704397) | more than 5 years ago | (#26499237)

The US Government is on a spending orgy of bailouts, stimuli and old fashioned pork. All pretenses of fiscal conservativism, from either political party, have vanished. We're into several trillion in promised payouts. The spending is accelerating, even as revenues are falling due to the crisis. There is simply no financial restraint left in government anymore. It wouldn't be so bad if the incoming president said he was going to pull back, but from all indications he thinks we aren't spending fast enough.

But geeks don't care, they're getting their net neutrality pony, and the rest of the world could burn for all they care.

Only mentions wireless, need fiber (1)

rberger (2481) | more than 5 years ago | (#26499339)

Just glanced at the bill and could only find wireless as the only tech available for grants. This is ridiculous as what we need is fiber deployments. Wireless is not going to deliver tomorrows broadband, just the lousy "broadband" of a few Mbps at the max.

Don't believe the WiMax hype. A cell which can only cover a mile or two (if you are lucky) has to share the 10's of MBps that a WiMax base station sector.

If we want to stop the US's descent to an Internet 3rd world country, we need fiber to the home and office.

Well-intentioned but... (2, Insightful)

onemorechip (816444) | more than 5 years ago | (#26499483)

if the restrictions only apply to those service providers accepting the funding, you get "net neutrality for some". The goal should be "net neutrality for all".

Someday (1)

/dev/trash (182850) | more than 5 years ago | (#26500743)

Congress will pass a bill that has one purpose and has no earmarks.

"Underserved" Area (1)

microbee (682094) | more than 5 years ago | (#26501983)

For a moment I read it as "Undeserved". I was like, WTF?

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