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Valve Discusses Team Fortress 2's Future

Soulskill posted more than 5 years ago | from the improving-and-evolving dept.

First Person Shooters (Games) 135

The Escapist chatted with Valve's Robin Walker about how the Team Fortress 2 team has been listening to feedback and continually updating the game to fix problems and add to the gameplay experience. Walker mentions that ideas for new classes are "floating around," and that a new mode of play will be introduced soon. "'Players have driven our entire approach to designing achievements, the way we tie unlockables to those achievements and the design of those new weapons themselves. The choices we made within the Medic and Heavy updates were very much the result of the ways that players have used that combination of classes within the game. The addition of the payload game mode came from players requesting an old Team Fortress Classic map called Hunted, and describing what they did and didn't like in that map.' ... The Scout is the next class slated for the special treatment, and Walker expects the update will be available early this year. Additionally, the team is juggling a number of side projects at the moment, including finally bringing a year's worth of the downloadable content and upgrades to the Xbox 360 version of the game. A new Payload map is in the works, more community maps are on the way and the team will soon unveil a very different new game mode."

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FIST SPORT (0, Troll)

ringbarer (545020) | more than 5 years ago | (#26544237)

Actually, I can't find anything to troll about regarding Valve. They create quality games with non-intrusive DRM. So I'll just resort to the standard racist trolling.

OOOK OOOK BANANA FUCKED HIS LINES UP!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! THAT'S WHAT YOU GET WHEN YOU'VE GOT A HOUSE-NIGGER RUNNING THE COUNTRY!

Re:FIST SPORT (1)

EmperorKagato (689705) | more than 5 years ago | (#26550347)

I didn't know the Chief Justice's name was Banana.

Valve Time (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26544281)

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time

Re:Valve Time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26545755)

Hilarious and very true, but after playing Farcry 2 and STALKER:SoC, I will never again criticize Valve for postponing releases. Every one of their games that I've ever played had top-notch QC and gameplay, and only very rarely have I encountered show-stopper bugs (usually fixed in less than a couple of days.)

Compare this to the industry standard of: "Just push it out in time for $HOLIDAY and maybe we'll make it playable and fun later, if we get to it."

FC2 is beautiful and has great potential, but feels half-baked and tedious; at best a C- game. I don't want HL2:E3 to turn out the same way.

Re:Valve Time (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26546279)

Every one of their games that I've ever played had top-notch QC and gameplay, and only very rarely have I encountered show-stopper bugs (usually fixed in less than a couple of days.)

Must be nice. I haven't been able to play any of their games since they went to the whole valve/steam online setup.

According to their customer support, I have distributed my half life product key to over 1,000 people during the 3 weeks BEFORE I purchased the copy from a local Best Buy.

I'd call THAT a show-stopping bug they still haven't fixed. Oh, and they basically told me to just go spend another $50 for a new key.

Re:Valve Time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26546455)

bummer... I thought BB would let you return opened games for exchange for the same title. If not, one more reason not to shop there I guess.

Re:Valve Time (-1, Troll)

JoshJ (1009085) | more than 5 years ago | (#26550439)

Left 4 Dead was pretty clearly rushed out, and the 360 version still suffers from all the bugs- though that is going to be dealt with in a few weeks, it seems.

Re:Valve Time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26549123)

Which means late sumer will give us the Scout update and when DNF goes gold we get the new game mode.

Hunted? (3, Interesting)

Nursie (632944) | more than 5 years ago | (#26544311)

You mean the old "Hunted President" map?

Hell yes, that was great. I haven't played a lot of TF2, but back in the days of old I was a big player of TF (over quakeworld, not over HL, the original TF!). Is the old "Rock" map available too?

Re:Hunted? (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 5 years ago | (#26544355)

All we used to play was 2fort5, guess I missed out :D

Unreals "2 fort" maps was quite fun to, guess I should get back into FPSs :D

Re:Hunted? (1)

Nursie (632944) | more than 5 years ago | (#26544371)

2fort5?

I remember 2fort4... and later 4fort. The well... hedges... damned if I can remember the rest. Loved that game though.

Some of the user-created maps were amazing.

Re:Hunted? (3, Informative)

aliquis (678370) | more than 5 years ago | (#26544435)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cyo4CgwvLgA&fmt=18 [youtube.com] Video of map.

http://www.planetfortress.com/fragopolis/html/2fort5.html [planetfortress.com] General information about map.
http://www.planetfortress.com/engineering101/maps/forts.htmWhere [planetfortress.com] to put sentrys on map.

http://redfort.ytmnd.com/ [ytmnd.com] loool :D

http://www.fileshack.com/file.x?fid=9172 [fileshack.com] Download.

Re:Hunted? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26549513)

OMG, Mega-TF was the bomb diggity. I've been looking for something with 1/10th the playability and options of that for years...tribes came close...TF2 is fun....but I want 3 kinds of grenades for everyone...proxy mines...lazer drones...

Fan video of TF for HL. (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 5 years ago | (#26544499)

Omg, was browsing around videos and found this:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VqBPq48x6GA&fmt=18 [youtube.com]

Fucking amazing, I haven't played Halflife so I don't know how powerful the weapons and bunny jumping is there but I know the methods used and I so like to watch people with mad skills in a game :D

Re:Fan video of TF for HL. (1)

Nursie (632944) | more than 5 years ago | (#26544625)

Never really did get a handle on rocket or grenade jumping (and that's a pretty cool video), but I had some mad sniping skills back then.

Re:Fan video of TF for HL. (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 5 years ago | (#26544749)

I was told TFC was buggy, HL physics weird and that they was cheating by a friend enjoying watching time attacks, and the comment section was quite negative to, so maybe it wasn't as impressive as it looked to me as a Quaker :D

He told me to look at http://www.own-age.com/vids/1950 [own-age.com] instead (and a Q3 mod called defrag.)

Re:Hunted? (1)

afidel (530433) | more than 5 years ago | (#26546699)

The Well was by far my favorite map, it was great fun for just about every class but had special appeal to snipers. I loved playing with a 600DPI trackball, made it super easy to get a headshot =)

Re:Hunted? (1)

bigmouth_strikes (224629) | more than 5 years ago | (#26544485)

Oh, that was great fun. I played Half-life TF and the Hunted map exclusively for months and months. I loved that panicked look on the hunted guy, with only an umbrella for protection.

Re:Hunted? (1)

MrNiceguy_KS (800771) | more than 5 years ago | (#26545571)

Man, I miss Hunted so bad. The payload maps are fun - some of my favorites, in fact - but I still want Hunted.

Re:Hunted? (1)

Kamokazi (1080091) | more than 5 years ago | (#26544991)

There are some community remakes of Rock, but none I have seen are anything like the old one. There is rock-inspired one called gas_kaboom, which is considerably smaller and can be quite fun.

Re:Hunted? (1)

The MAZZTer (911996) | more than 5 years ago | (#26546171)

Yeah someone ported the rock level, it plays pretty much the same. :) No upgraded visuals though.

Still haven't played it. (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 5 years ago | (#26544337)

I really liked Quake and Team Fortress but I still haven't played TF 2, mostly because I have a mac.

Anyway though wifi play on the DS suck I think it would had been a nice title on the DS. The graphics probably makes it somewhat easier to render with the very limited amount of polygons usable on the DS, the controls would probably work somewhat and the graphics would be good enough for old school enjoyment.

Too bad it will never happen =P, 360? Couldn't care less, I'd prefer it on PC any day.

Re:Still haven't played it. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26544439)

Actually, the number of engine features and intense shader-reliance make the game very CPU intensive, even compared to other Source games, though IANAGD(game developer). This would make a Nintendo DS port difficult, to say the least.

The graphics themselves aren't so bad; maxed out, I rarely lose any noticeable number of frames without the map design being abhorrent, on a years-old mid-range GPU. The CPU and memory load, on the other hand, is quite large, even with a dual core running at 4ghz and enough RAM to choke anything with less than 64-bits. While I'd honestly be impressed if anyone could manage to get the Source engine ported to a system with specs like the DS, I have my doubts about that happening any time soon, short of a complete butchering of the game, and the release of "Team Fortress 2: Puzzle Pack Extravaganza [Deluxe Edition]". The graphics are simply too complex, despite their retro and simplistic appearance.

Hopefully, though, once handhelds get enough power to become sentient, we'll see quite a few installs of TF2. Since, logically, every sentient being wants to play TF2... or at least Left4Dead.

Re:Still haven't played it. (1)

Bieeanda (961632) | more than 5 years ago | (#26544631)

"Team Fortress 2: Puzzle Pack Extravaganza [Deluxe Edition]".

You mean Peggle Extreme?

Re:Still haven't played it. (1)

Darundal (891860) | more than 5 years ago | (#26544727)

Actually, Peggle is already coming out for the DS.

Re:Still haven't played it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26544783)

Well, it's available for PC in the Orange Box,
and the PS3 and 360.

Re:Still haven't played it. (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 5 years ago | (#26544859)

I know, never got it if all "team fortress 2 orange box" is the whole box or just TF2 though, because there is a couple of those and a couple of just "orange box" when I search for prices, and I don't know if I want to waste storage on Windows, though I should.

Re:Still haven't played it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26545191)

On Steam, TF2 is listed both separately, and as part of the Orange Box pack, which includes Half Life 2, HL2 Episode 1, HL2 Episode 2, and Portal.

http://store.steampowered.com/sub/469/
http://store.steampowered.com/app/440/

Depending on how you look at it, either the Orange Box pack is very cheap, or all of the individual components are way too expensive. The same goes for just about everything on Steam.

If you buy the bundle, you're not required to have all of the games installed, or even to download them all.

Re:Still haven't played it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26545077)

Certainly the overall style would be suited to the DS (which has hardware cel-shading, I think), but obviously not with the same assets. The DS has a hard limit of 2048 vertexes per frame (that's the largest display list the 3D engine can process), but TF2 (or any modern PC game) would likely be using several times that per model.

Obviously it'd have to be a different game. Since Valve aren't really interested in consoles, and seem to be completely devoted to Microsoft for some crazy reason, it'd never happen.

Maybe the original Quake Team Fortress would work on QuakeDS?

Re:Still haven't played it. (1)

aliquis (678370) | more than 5 years ago | (#26545275)

Well, the DS has a Quake2 port to, though I think it requires a memory expansion (with Opera or EzFlash V 3in1 or similar.)

Re:Still haven't played it. (1)

Chabo (880571) | more than 5 years ago | (#26549783)

and seem to be completely devoted to Microsoft for some crazy reason

Not so much that, as apparently the PS3 is very hard to code for, especially when you're used to Windows coding. Apparently the 360 is easier to port from Windows, or to code alongside Windows.

Take a look at "How To Go From PC to Cross Platform Development Without Killing Your Studio" here:
http://valvesoftware.com/publications.html [valvesoftware.com]

Re:Still haven't played it. (1)

miscz (888242) | more than 5 years ago | (#26550097)

Meet the low-poly TF2 [tomtallian.com] .

Flagrun! (1)

Roger Wilcox (776904) | more than 5 years ago | (#26544507)

A game mechanic I hope to see return: collect multiple flags for the win.

Re:Flagrun! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26544791)

d0h, you mean like in capture the flag? like on ctf_turbine or ctf_2fort?
ok, ok, the flag is a briefcase full of intel...

Re:Flagrun! (1)

KasperMeerts (1305097) | more than 5 years ago | (#26544915)

The keyword here is multiple. It should be an interesting variation on the theme to collect multiple flags (briefcases, floppy disks, whatever...).

Re:Flagrun! (1)

srmalloy (263556) | more than 5 years ago | (#26545413)

As I understand it from reading the various map-developers' forums, there can be only one enemy intelligence object at a time. However, it is possible to create a series of captures by setting up the action that occurs when the enemy intelligence is secured to respawn the intelligence at the 'next' flag point, with the game objective for captures being set to require a capture from each intel spawn in turn.

Re:Flagrun! (1)

JCSoRocks (1142053) | more than 5 years ago | (#26547683)

Yes, we mappers have tried many different things to get multiple flags working but none of them have worked. Moving the flag spawn isn't too much of a problem. I did see someone trying to create a sort of "center flag" game but I never saw what came of it. He was working on placing one flag in the middle to be capped by either team.

Re:Flagrun! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26550583)

I think there was a map like that, although I could be mistaken -- might have been two briefcases, but I don't think so. You would grab the intel from the center outdoors area, and try to take it to the intel room in the *opposing* base to capture.

Re:Flagrun! (1)

JoshJ (1009085) | more than 5 years ago | (#26550509)

There's a version of Avanti which has the offense start with the flag, and have to move it to the point, and which point it is changes over time. There's also a one-way CTF map called stb_cowtown which has only one team trying to get the flag, and the other team defending, and a total of 4 flags on the map.

Why TF2 is a joke (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26544671)

Valve really messed up TF2. First, the fact that it took forever to come out, which didn't help because of the high expectations. Second of all, the cartoon characters. It looks like a children's game. At a time when Valve could've really spiced up the types of weapons available to each class and really separated itself from other fps, Valve decides to remove the grenades. What a joke.

Since the release of Quake and TFC, there has not been a FPS that has really stood apart from the others. Apparently game developers now think the bigger the budget the better which is probably why no "gamer" I know plays new FPS games. New FPS primarily consist of an engine you've used before with different player models and maps. Nothing new. It's time for a change and fortunately developers _are_ going to have to change and be creative if they want to survive in this economy.

Re:Why TF2 is a joke (5, Insightful)

KasperMeerts (1305097) | more than 5 years ago | (#26545003)

Not inventive? You've got to be kidding me. I love it that there's 9 classes each with it's own weaknesses and strengths. That's different from most FPS'es I know.

And the graphics are fantastic. The cartoonesque atmosphere is a lot more fun than a realistic one would be.

The grenades were removed because of very valid reasons, like the stupid spamming at the beginning of every map. Too bad they had to include critical hits which ruins the game for me in a completely other way

Really, I don't understand what you want. You want innovation but at the same time you're mad at Valve because they didn't copy stuff from the old Team Fortress? That's pretty contradictory. And don't forget that a bad economy is not good for innovation, companies are more likely to stay with the old tried and true methods, because it's those which bring in the big bucks.

Re:Why TF2 is a joke (4, Insightful)

JCSoRocks (1142053) | more than 5 years ago | (#26547757)

Don't mind the obvious troll OP. He obviously hasn't read any of Valve's developer commentary that explains everything he's complaining about.

For example - Of course the characters look cartoonish. They're rocket and sticky jumping around, they're being healed by a giant blue raygun and they're fighting over bases they've built 100 feet from each other.

Parent - just play on a no-crit server.

Re:Why TF2 is a joke (1)

KasperMeerts (1305097) | more than 5 years ago | (#26548845)

Sometimes I do play one one, but it was more to somewhat prove that I'm no TF2 fan boy and dare to admit that I don't approve of every decision Valve had made. You just responded to my subtle psychology.

Re:Why TF2 is a joke (1)

ravenshrike (808508) | more than 5 years ago | (#26548137)

Toss a cooldown timer on the grenades and limit standard grenades to 2. Problem solved.

Re:Why TF2 is a joke (1)

philspear (1142299) | more than 5 years ago | (#26549025)

The grenades were removed because of very valid reasons, like the stupid spamming at the beginning of every map.

I agree. The grenades in TF1 were really unbalanced to where they were more important than the other weapons. In principle the different classes having different grenades was very interesting and could have furthered the different class concept, but in practice it made every class equally good at offense.

Medics in TF1 for example could be played on offense. The medpacks poisoned the other team and that seemed to be the primary use, and of course there were the grenades (I think, it's been a while). I can't remember what the medic's specific grenade did, but they were all devastating. A medic VS a heavy weapons guy was actually fairly evenly matched, you just lob a grenade, or poison him. It made the classes were pretty superficial. Sure you could heal people as a medic, provided they stood still and you ran right up to them, but this was rarely used from my experience. It was all about grenades. In TF2 on the other hand, a medic has to get pretty lucky to take out an enemy. As a medic, you heal your own team and stay away from the enemy at all costs, it's a totally different game play style.

The classes have completely different styles of play based largely on the removal of grenades.

Re:Why TF2 is a joke (1)

Draconius42 (751172) | more than 5 years ago | (#26550251)

Actually,equipped with the blutsauger, the medic can be quite competent on offense.

Re:Why TF2 is a joke (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26549053)

"Not inventive? You've got to be kidding me. I love it that there's 9 classes each with it's own weaknesses and strengths. That's different from most FPS'es I know."

The more classes doesn't necessarily make it better. I'd be happy with 4 or 5 exceptional classes.

BTW, "Its" is possessive and "It's" = "it is".

"And the graphics are fantastic. The cartoonesque atmosphere is a lot more fun than a realistic one would be."

That's your opinion. I think the cartoonesque atmosphere looks silly and something that a child would play. I don't know your age, but perhaps you're very young and this appeals to you in particular.

"The grenades were removed because of very valid reasons, like the stupid spamming at the beginning of every map."

I don't believe that there's any type of spamming in TFC. Grenades offer an interesting strategy to the game. Grenades are in plenty of other FPSs. If you think grenades are "spam", perhaps FPSs aren't for you.

"And don't forget that a bad economy is not good for innovation, companies are more likely to stay with the old tried and true methods, because it's those which bring in the big bucks."

Actually it's the exact opposite. With new forms of entertainment around every corner, game developers are looking for anything fresh and exciting to offer their customers (at least they are at my company). FPS are a dime a dozen and because of this, they're getting harder and harder to make back budget. Any serious gamer will tell you Doom3, Quake4, and yes, TF2 are terrible games. Of course, we are on Slashdot; so your safe groupthink response is valued much more than individual thought; or of someone who's been gaming since the late 1970s.

Re:Why TF2 is a joke (1)

Chabo (880571) | more than 5 years ago | (#26549859)

I don't believe that there's any type of spamming in TFC. Grenades offer an interesting strategy to the game. Grenades are in plenty of other FPSs. If you think grenades are "spam", perhaps FPSs aren't for you.

Obviously you've never played Dustbowl in TFC. The nadespam doesn't seem so bad if you usually play CTF maps (2fort, etc) instead of attack/defend.

Re:Why TF2 is a joke (1)

EmperorKagato (689705) | more than 5 years ago | (#26550633)

Actually it's the exact opposite. With new forms of entertainment around every corner, game developers are looking for anything fresh and exciting to offer their customers (at least they are at my company). FPS are a dime a dozen and because of this, they're getting harder and harder to make back budget. Any serious gamer will tell you Doom3, Quake4, and yes, TF2 are terrible games. Of course, we are on Slashdot; so your safe groupthink response is valued much more than individual thought; or of someone who's been gaming since the late 1970s.

Wow a lot of people must love playing TF2 since it is so crappy. Even on the competitive level they love to play it because of its controls, the level design and overall gameplay is mediocre. Our customers are saying "Hey! At the end of a long day the only thing I want to play right now is a terrible game. Let's play Team Fortress 2 and continue to be masochists!"

Yep. Not making back the amount we used in our budget on a game that sells over a million copies. Not at all

Damn, If only we made Crysis 3 with unachievable minnimum requirements we would make A FORTUNE!

Sorry if I'm not impressed... (2, Interesting)

Xest (935314) | more than 5 years ago | (#26544897)

I used to love the original QWTF, I thought it was fantastic, perhaps the game I spent more time on than any other, despite having to pay dialup costs per minute back then.

I followed TF ever since it came out, and when TF2 was originally announce as a mod for Quake II I was excited, I was equally excited when it was slated as a massive combat game with commanders and people dropping down out of helicopters as the screenshots showed for Half-Life and then it's own game. After around 5 years I got bored of waiting then something like 9 years on it finally arrived.

Yet, when it arrived, everything new had been dropped and it turned out to be some copy of the original TV, minus some pretty damn important features like grenades and coupled in with some horrible graphical style. Now they talk of some of the classic maps and game modes, perhaps they'll even bring grenades back.

But my point is this, whilst TF2 is great, people obviously want more. It's taken them 9 or 10 years to end up back where they started, mimicking QWTF and even then not quite (again no grenades, lack of old favourite maps). Surely the lesson to be learned by now is that if they want to immitate the success of the original then all they needed to do all along is simply immitate the original albeit with updated graphics (minus the cartoony theme change).

Yes, I very much miss the QWTF days, but it does really seem Valve is only just in recent years beginning to realise what the old QWTF fans said all along- just stay true to the original. They've had a decade to figure this out.

Grenades?? (4, Insightful)

jgtg32a (1173373) | more than 5 years ago | (#26544973)

The absence of grenades is one of the best parts of TF2

Re:Grenades?? (1)

VeNoM0619 (1058216) | more than 5 years ago | (#26548283)

Exactly, they dropped it because of nade spam. Not too long ago I played COD4 (where you had to train your guns...) which had tons of nade spam, people would spam all the spawns. It was so pointless and luck based about your death. Maybe it was just a bunch of small maps, but still someone from both teams died regardless. Hell I went to servers where people complained about nades and threatened to ban people for it, that's how out of control"nades for all" became in games.

Sure there's SLOW moving rockets in TF2, and pipebombs/stickies. Which admittedly was way overpowered but now you can destroy stickies, and only 1 class/person can keep shooting them (not all 12 players throwing nades everywhere).

Re:Sorry if I'm not impressed... (5, Insightful)

Orleron (835910) | more than 5 years ago | (#26545309)

Dude, I'm sorry. I couldn't disagree more. Yes, they did drop all of the original plans for that TF2 you mentioned, but the one that they made was still decent. If you wanted some highly advanced combat game, then I see your point. TF is not that, and never was. You should play Call of Duty or CS. TF2, first off, is SUPER balanced. They did a huge job at class balancing everything, and that meant eliminating grenades, correct. Eliminating grenades DOES make it less realistic, sure... but it also makes it more fun. In TF2 you can actually try to get down and dirty and spar with people by using whatever special tricks your class has. It won't be screwed up by some 12-year-old who can spam 3 grenades down a football field and just kill you (unless you play a Demoman in TF2 of course.) The point of TF2 is cartoon-like combat and fun. You have to suspend disbelief somewhat. If you insist on something realistic, then I can totally see why you say it sucks.

Re:Sorry if I'm not impressed... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26545807)

Dude, I'm sorry. I couldn't disagree more. Yes, they did drop all of the original plans for that TF2 you mentioned, but the one that they made was still decent. If you wanted some highly advanced combat game, then I see your point. TF is not that, and never was. You should play Call of Duty or CS. TF2, first off, is SUPER balanced. They did a huge job at class balancing everything, and that meant eliminating grenades, correct. Eliminating grenades DOES make it less realistic, sure... but it also makes it more fun. In TF2 you can actually try to get down and dirty and spar with people by using whatever special tricks your class has. It won't be screwed up by some 12-year-old who can spam 3 grenades down a football field and just kill you (unless you play a Demoman in TF2 of course.) The point of TF2 is cartoon-like combat and fun. You have to suspend disbelief somewhat. If you insist on something realistic, then I can totally see why you say it sucks.

class balance is good aside from the snipers.

Re:Sorry if I'm not impressed... (1)

JCSoRocks (1142053) | more than 5 years ago | (#26547793)

How so? I think snipers are perfectly balanced. Sure, a good sniper can be obnoxious but that's as it should be. If snipers are hassling you too much it's because the spies and snipers (and sometimes pyros!) on your team aren't doing their job.

Re:Sorry if I'm not impressed... (1)

miscz (888242) | more than 5 years ago | (#26550157)

Spies have better things to do which makes snipers the only viable countermeasure for other snipers. That's a problem IMHO.

Re:Sorry if I'm not impressed... (2)

Xest (935314) | more than 5 years ago | (#26546089)

I'm not looking for realism and can only assume by your comments you never played the original TF but instead only played TFC.

The original TF was well balanced and sparring was still perfectly possible, but grenades were an added tool in that on top. Grenades also added a whole new level of tactics through grenade jumps that are clearly missing from TF2 without them.

I didn't say it sucks either, I said it's simply not what it could have been if they'd stayed true to the original. QWTF had everything TF2 has and then some more without sacrificing balance or fun in any way at all. The entity system allowed for so much flexibility that we could have maps like hunted without needing it to be patched in as a new game mode also for example.

The fact you add in a note (and many complain) about playing a demoman allowing you to spam grenades annoyingly causing problems is demonstration in itself that TF2 is not as balanced as QWTF was. The fact Valve says the scout is due for some improvements and people complain about the weakness of the pyro is again, also evidence of this.

If you'd played QWTF you'd know that other than the obvious improvements in graphical detail, TF2 is less than that.

Re:Sorry if I'm not impressed... (1)

Orleron (835910) | more than 5 years ago | (#26546283)

Actually I played the original TF on Quakeworld when it first came out. I've been around as long as you. For the demoman comment, it's actually not unbalanced given the reload rate and number of nades in the cartridge. I was just being somewhat facetious. Granted, there were some strategic contraptions available through grenades in TF and TFC. However, in TF2 there are simply other strategies that replace those old paradigms, such as invincible medic/hwguy combos, healing at a distance, and other stuff.

Re:Sorry if I'm not impressed... (1)

brkello (642429) | more than 5 years ago | (#26547613)

Even if the game was perfectly balanced by all the divine powers in the universe, people still would complain something was unbalanced. People are dumb like that. It's a great game and I think you are looking at the past with rose colored glasses. It's the most fun I have had in an FPS since I did it competitively in college.

Re:Sorry if I'm not impressed... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26548093)

None of the classes "Need" improvement. They are adding some additional diversity to the classes through achievement system. The amount of achievements needed to unlock all items are easy enough that a below average player will be able to reach them. The more difficult "For bragging rights" achievements are much more difficult.

Scout in no way a weak class. It is probably the most skill based class to be effective and uses completely different tactics than every other class. It is weak in some situations just like every other class. I can fairly consistently take a Top 3 spot playing scout for an entire map cycle.

Re:Sorry if I'm not impressed... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26548187)

Your saying "weakness of the pyro" only tells me that you haven't played TF2. The pyro is currently considered one of the more overpowered classes. That will change as other classes get their upgrades, but still... you have no clue. Just as much as I haven't played any TF before TFC, you seem to have missed out on TF after TFC.

Oh, and the cartoony graphics are part of the whole theme. If you bash a game based on something like that, you're just grasping at straws.

Re:Sorry if I'm not impressed... (1)

gad_zuki! (70830) | more than 5 years ago | (#26546627)

If you insist on something realistic, then I can totally see why you say it sucks.

Exactly. Those who want realism can play the BF2 mod called Project Reality. One shot one kill, super slow, etc just like real warfare. I doubt most CS or TF2 players would think it was fun.

Re:Sorry if I'm not impressed... (4, Informative)

Still an AC (1390693) | more than 5 years ago | (#26547487)

TF2 used to be balanced. Then they started rolling out updates for classes on at a time. And if you don't have the new unlocks you are at a disadvantage. Even worse they tied to unlocks to lame ass achievements, alot of which require you do stuff that is counter to the whole team concept. Of course that just leads to achievement servers where you don't actually play you just do what you need to to unlock the weapons.

Re:Sorry if I'm not impressed... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26545763)

You do realize that there is a class that has grenades. It's called the demo

Re:Sorry if I'm not impressed... (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 5 years ago | (#26546467)

You do realise that if you think that's what I mean by grenades then you don't know what I'm referring to?

In QWTF, on top of standard weapons every class had normal hand grenades which could be cooked and a special grenade type- engineer had EMP grenade, scout had concussion, soldier had nail grenade etc.

Re:Sorry if I'm not impressed... (1)

Shihar (153932) | more than 5 years ago | (#26545847)

I personally was kind of disheartened by TF2. I know I got more millage out of TF than any other game. There were just so many delightful things about it... so many wonderful strategies. Do you recall the joys of the emp grenade? God, I loved that thing.

TF2 has its virtues. It is certainly better balanced than the original in terms of classes, but it achieved that balance by dumbing the game down immensely. The levels are a lot more linear and narrow, and in general they have just stripped out a lot of interesting game play options in favor of balance. Personally, I miss the old TF.

Balance? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26549329)

They didn't just dumb the game down, they flattened the learning curve and made it so skill has almost no bearing in your performance. Which ever team is more aggressive and sticks together better will win without fail. This is 'Movement Formation: The Game', which is why I only play custom games now, what few there are.

The only class that requires any coordination at all is the Sniper, which is just as well because the Sniper is goddamn terrible. The Pyro is by far the most versatile class with a nearly instant-kill weapon, damage over time on everything, mine-sweeping, rocket-proofing, moderate health and speed, and an unlockable weapon that makes your flamethrower even more instant-kill. He's followed by the Demoman, who does everything the Soldier can better and then some. Especially after the last update (super dispensers that can heal you as fast as you can repair your turret!) the Engineer can hold off the other team three to one, and if they're working in pairs or greater, forget taking down the turrets without your entire team focusing on them. (I call turrets 'death zone projectors' because that's exactly what they are.) The rest of the classes - Heavy, Medic, Soldier, Sniper, and Spy - are sub-par at best with the exception of the Scout, which tends to be a good objective-grabber but complete crap otherwise. (Frantic spy-checking and even a modicum of vigilance renders the Spy completely useless.)

Also, shotguns. Shotguns everywhere, and splash weapons too. Accuracy, what's that? The pistols are just as accurate as a shotgun spray, and you don't even aim better if you crouch. Dynamic play? Emergent behavior? A whole cast of classes that aren't pathetic one-trick ponies instead of a tiny few that dominate? Screw that, you get 'Counter Strike 4 Kids'.

Re:Sorry if I'm not impressed... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26548039)

Is there anything stopping some group from making a Mega TF mod of TF2? I also loved QWTF and particularly the Mega TF variants (medics dropping dirty syringes, snipers to call air strikes, etc). It'd be nice to see the same for TF2 and they could just add back in the classic grenades some of us miss. Could just make those server configurable options.

Re:Sorry if I'm not impressed... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26549579)

That's what I don't understand about their decision to get rid of the grenades. (Of course, there are a lot of things I don't understand about the game's direction.) In your server setup, you could just turn grenades on or off, simple as that. Instead, the grenades are gone but the meshes remain.

I've visited a few custom servers that have dynamite bundles and grenades enabled. Guess what? They don't hurt the gameplay at all, mostly because they did less damage than the Demoman's grenades and could be swept away. Anti-grenade evangelists are just whiners that use bad games like Call of Duty as examples while propping up shit arguments with silly notions of realism versus fun, like realism was even an issue here. In the case of the custom Team Fortress 2 games that had grenades where I've played, they weren't primary damage weapons but supplemental weapons for when three - just three - classes either ran out of ammo or got disadvantaged by cover. All of them did less damage than the primary explosive weapons (rockets, mines, and pipes), and would take repeated direct hits to even kill a Scout. With Medic support (or just a high-health class, which a good half of them are) you could run through nade-spam in these games no problem.

Maybe Supporting the Game... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26544969)

... would be a step in the right direction.

Those guys at Valve aren't stupid. (Hell, I've gotta hand it to them, they're some of the best developers around. They are to this generation what Blizzard was to the last.) When they realized that the honeymoon was over between gamers and Team Fortress 2, they poured all of their effort and energy into Left 4 Dead. Why'd they do that?

- As a competitive FPS, Team Fortress 2's gameplay doesn't add up. The balance is god awful. Did the Pyro really need a back-stab when the flamethrower was already practically OHKO? How many of the guns don't shoot sideways, anyway? Why yes, you should need half of your team or an ubercharge to handle one sentry turret. The only reason to play Soldier is if you have enough cover to spam your rockets, since they move slower than some of the classes run and only do respectable damage when you score a critical hit. (Meaning that the class is only good with saturation fire, which the Demoman can do much, much better. Let's not forget their pathetic conc-jump, which the Demoman is also better at.) There are too many issues with the gameplay to list, but you know one thing that does even the odds? All-crit servers.

- Related to the above, there's a reason Team Fortress 2 also goes by 'Counter Strike Casual'. Very few of the weapons are reliable, meaning that whether or not you take out an opponent (even at point blank range in the case of the Scout) is left to chance. That leaves team formation and movement at the fore which, while an admirable design choice, is not mutually exclusive to making the game more skill-oriented than this. If it weren't for ammo, you would literally get the same gameplay experience out of having everyone hold the left mouse button and 'w' and then move toward the enemy with the best formation winning. Even as a beginner's game that's shallow.

- Nobody likes making maps for Source. This is as true in Team Fortress 2 as it is for every other game since Half Life 2. A victim of its own success, games made for the Source engine raised the bar for quality in graphics, maps, and levels, but failed to make reproducing that any easier. It's very unusual for me to find custom maps in circulation on any server for any Source game, and Team Fortress 2 is no different. The maps it came with get very old very fast.

Since they already kind of fucked up with the game and people aren't going to buy it twice, why support it? Unfortunately, this 'throw it to the dogs' mentality only works with games that are actually easy and worthwhile to modify. Valve's art project had potential that was largely left unfulfilled, and now the game has extremely little good content and a lot of long standing problems that... Well, look at it this way. Ten years ago, the Half-Life mod community could've fixed this in a week. Not so now. If you as a company can't see your product getting more sales by you supporting it, the only reason you should support it is as a courtesy, and the revenue stream comes before courtesy. (Otherwise, courtesy is something you can't afford.)

One of the most addictive games around (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26545299)

TF2 and L4D while different, are both examples of Valve listening very closely to the community.

With TF2 in particular there are servers you can join just about any time of the day and experience very high level quality gameplay. The maps are for the most part decent, some are great, and the play is very balanced provided you get a 'Team' to act like a team. On a recent warpath map over the holidays we had 3.5 hour single match with 16 v 16 teams. Just about everyone on those teams was a top tier player. Intense action, balanced class distribution, and amazing individual and team play. the fact that you can log into an arbitrary server and experience that level of play is something that is missing from just about every other team experience out there.

Having said that. the scout doesn't really need an upgrade, people who are good at playing scout are already devastating. Most aren't very good. That doesn't make it a class problem. I personally would like to see the engineers (and I normally do not play engineer) have a bigger role. Once the engineers set up their equipment, there really is not much else for them to do. What would be great is the ability to use an uber charge to get an engineer through enemy lines, and to one of the enemy garages. The engineer being able to 'pick the lock' and then change the lock would give the team the ability to flank the enemy and force their respawn point back one level. It would make the battle a bit more non-linear and make distribution of engineers much more interesting (instead of the cloud of engineers at the current point). It also gives the engineers a tactical offensive capability. Also, spys could be used to pick the lock and let the engineers have a key which would give them access. That would accomplish the same thing but much more subtly.

A second addition I would like to see is to be able to pass objects between teammates. A demo could give a spy a bomb to plant. The medics could give away med-packs, anyone could bring an engineer metal (drop ammo).. etc..again, emphasizing the team aspect.

Its truly a great game, and while different from its predecessors without losing the core essence, it stands alone with the level of balance that exists across the classes.

I gave up on TF2 cause it's too laggy on my PC (1)

JSBiff (87824) | more than 5 years ago | (#26545687)

I should prelude this with a bit of info on my PC, to give some perspective. It's a Dell Inspiron laptop, so, in all fairness, it's not really a 'gaming PC'. It has a Core2Duo 2.0Ghz processor (I think the model number was T-7200), nVidia GForce Go 7200 video chipset, 1 Gig of RAM, and a 7200RPM hard drive (I payed extra for the faster HDD instead of going with the stock 5400RPM disk).

I think my system sits somewhere in the middle of PC's, performance-wise. I know there are systems that are much faster than mine, but also a lot of systems much slower.

Anyhow, I tried playing TF2 for awhile, but even with all the graphics settings turned down quite a lot, my computer just could not keep up with it for some reason. I play quite a lot of other 3D games on this laptop with no problems (or minimal problems). Since the most important attribute of an FPS is speed, I'm disappointed that TF2 doesn't scale down to middle-tier systems better.

Correction on the video chipset (1)

JSBiff (87824) | more than 5 years ago | (#26545735)

I realized after submitting, I had put the model for the GPU wrong. It's a GForce Go 7900, not 7200.

Re:I gave up on TF2 cause it's too laggy on my PC (1)

IICV (652597) | more than 5 years ago | (#26546071)

I don't know exactly when you bought that, but nowadays such a laptop is about one step above the bottom end, and given that it's a Dell Inspiron it probably was that way when you bought it. From the graphics card, I'd say you probably bought it two or three years ago; as such, it's an older, lower end computer. You shouldn't expect too much of it.

That being said, it's crippled for most purposes by that 1 GB of ram - on anything but a high-end laptop, memory is shared with the video card. You've actually got anything from 512 MB to 896 MB of usable ram. Spend $50 or so on two or even four gigabytes of laptop RAM (make sure you get the right type), and you might even be able to play TF2. You'll definitely notice a permanent speed difference.

Re:I gave up on TF2 cause it's too laggy on my PC (1)

JSBiff (87824) | more than 5 years ago | (#26546375)

Yes, it was about 2 years ago, I guess. I have, actually, been thinking about upgrading the RAM. The thing is, most games play OK for me, even on that system. Like I said, I know it's not top of the line, but games need to run on systems that are not top of the line, too. Historically, Valve games have run pretty well on reasonably older hardware. Half-Life 2, the Episodes, and Portal seemed to all do OK on my laptop (after I turned down the graphics some), just not TF2.

As for the nVidia, the GPU claims to have 256MB of it's own RAM. It should not be shared memory, so I should really have 1 Gig (of course, Windows XP and background services seem to use a good 400M+ when I'm running nothing else, so that is cutting me down to about 500M of useable RAM for games).

Re:I gave up on TF2 cause it's too laggy on my PC (1)

JCSoRocks (1142053) | more than 5 years ago | (#26547915)

You gotta realize that running a game on a 2 year old laptop is like running it on a 4 year old desktop. Unless you dropped an insane amount of money on your laptop, chances are it was equivalent to a lower mid-range PC when you bought it. Valve updated the Source Engine for all of the Orange Box games. They take advantage of it to varying degrees but my understanding is that TF2 has the most new effects. They've even added more over time. EP2 probably does all right because it's single player and it's not using all of the bells and whistles. In a 32 player game you've got a lot more going on. On my old machine I would have FPS issues on big CS servers. Lots of players meant lag for me. So I'd stick to smaller servers. I'd definitely get more RAM if you're not getting a new machine. 1 GB just doesn't cut it anymore. :)

Re:I gave up on TF2 cause it's too laggy on my PC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26546495)

Whoa now, only 1 Gig of RAM?

Re:I gave up on TF2 cause it's too laggy on my PC (1)

JSBiff (87824) | more than 5 years ago | (#26547263)

I think I might be about ready to give up on PC gaming completely, lol. When I bought the computer, 2 years ago, 1 Gig of ram was quite a lot (though there were some systems selling with 2G, that was about the top).

PC Gaming is the only consumer market that thinks it's reasonable that something you buy today, will be almost completely unable to use content produced only 1 year after you buy the device, without constant upgrading. That'd be like an iPhone that couldn't play some of the songs on iTMS after a year, or a TV, which couldn't display some TV shows after 1 year.

At least with consoles, you get about 3 years before a system gets replaced with a 'new generation', and when it does, consoles are (comparatively) cheap.

That said, I'll probably at least spend the money to upgrade to 2 or 4 Gigs of RAM, as that is pretty cheap, but when I reach the day that this computer can no longer play most of the new games coming out, I think I'll just go the console route, like most other gamers.

Re:I gave up on TF2 cause it's too laggy on my PC (1)

Nos. (179609) | more than 5 years ago | (#26547619)

2 Years ago, 1G was not a lot of RAM, at least not if you are considering it for gaming.

As for a machine being obsolete in a year, I'm not sure where you got this idea. Almost two years ago I picked up an E6600 Dual Core (2.4Ghz), 2G ram, and an Nvidia 7950GT. Up until the holidays, I hadn't done a single upgrade and was playing new games, like Call of Duty world at war just fine. Over the holidays I found a good deal on RAM and went to 4 (well, 3.x) for something like $20, and also picked up a new 24" monitor. With that, I couldn't play the newest games at 1920x1080, so I picked up a 9800GT. Now I'm playing L4D, CoD, etc. with everything maxxed and seeing no noticeable drop in frame rates. So suggesting that its obsolete in 1 year is just not true. With minor upgrades (<$200), I'm still playing with graphics at their highest settings. I'm sure this machine will still be playing at relatively high settings for at least another year, which puts me at still less than $2000 over the lifetime of the machine. (Those are all CDN dollars). Not as cheap as a console, but I use it for more than just gaming.

Re:I gave up on TF2 cause it's too laggy on my PC (1)

mordenkhai (1167617) | more than 5 years ago | (#26547647)

My computer is 2.5 years old and there aren't any game out there that I haven't been able to play up to this 1/1/09. Only 1 game I cannot get to run well and that was due to this Xmas me receiving a video card, Mass Effect PC evidently likes older nVidia cards more than newer ones. So I am tempted to swap my card back to the old one till I am done with that game. People always complain that after 1 year you can't play new games, and honestly that is just not true. If you go to the local parts shop and make sure you only buy parts that are $80 or less, then yeah I can see it happening. However a mid range system at purchase should be fine for 3 years with 99% of all releases, very possibly 100% will be playable without the bells and whistles. If you want to give up on PC gaming because of a bad experience, I can understand. This weekend I sure wished I had an Xbox 360 w/ Mass Effect so I could play it rather than my PC copy. However, you don't have to go console in order to play the newer games. I also think people need to stop thinking (at least when gaming is concerned) that Laptop = PC. Its not the same thing. 2 Years ago 1GB was not good for a Desktop PC, 2GB was the solid average/min. People don't complain about "Next gen" console graphics by pointing at non HiDef releases on the DS or PSP. "PC" gaming on laptops is definitely the hardest way to go about playing games, you have the costs of needing mid range or better hardware, with it needing to be small and portable. Yikes! They are going to charge through the teeth for it.

Re:I gave up on TF2 cause it's too laggy on my PC (1)

Chabo (880571) | more than 5 years ago | (#26550417)

RAM is uber-cheap right now. You can get 2 or 4GB for VERY cheap. It's worth the upgrade, even just for everyday tasks. If you're running Vista, then 2GB is really the minimum now, with 4GB recommended.

That said, I think your issue with TF2 might actually be caused by the CPU, especially since you have a 7900. Most other games are very GPU-dependent, but Valve games are almost always CPU-bound.

My rig: P4 3.2, 1GB DDR400, GF 6600GT AGP. With that machine, I can play TF2, but I have to run it at 1024x768, and turn down most of the settings. But I can still get a decent framerate. That machine's about 5 years old not counting the video card, and about 3 years old if you do.

Your laptop seems like it has the specs to run all of the games out there, even if you have to settle on detail settings occasionally. If you want good gaming performance, and don't feel like you have to spend over $1000/year, then I suggest a desktop. You get more for your money, and it will stay current for longer. Right now you can get a pretty decent gaming machine, including an E8400 (or Q9400), 4GB RAM, and a 4850, for very cheap, and the performance will be great. Now's a good time to buy.

Re:I gave up on TF2 cause it's too laggy on my PC (1)

YojimboJango (978350) | more than 5 years ago | (#26547195)

According to the games system requirements you fall somewhere between minimum requirements and recommended. You should be able to play with the graphics on low to maybe medium and get about 30fps.

Your system is not a middle tier system. It is a low tier system. Thus you need to turn all the bells and whistles off. Keep in mind, right now TF2 only runs on a single core. Your dual core isn't helping you at all here.

There is hope for you though. Valve has stated that they are bringing over the multicore support that they implemented for Left4Dead to Team Fortress 2. Give it another month and things should start speeding up.

Re:I gave up on TF2 cause it's too laggy on my PC (1)

brkello (642429) | more than 5 years ago | (#26547919)

Laptops are going to be behind the curve for gaming right out of the box. Yours is a few years old. It might be mid-range for a general purpose PC perspective, but for gaming it is on the low end. It is too bad it doesn't scale better for you. It really is an enjoyable game.

Re:I gave up on TF2 cause it's too laggy on my PC (1)

ADRA (37398) | more than 5 years ago | (#26548933)

I don't know what other games you're playing on your -laptop-, but generally a laptop's Video processor is a heaping pile of bullocks unless you're paying for the super duper premium chips; in which case, they double as base board heaters.

Re:I gave up on TF2 cause it's too laggy on my PC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26549319)

You might need more RAM. I found most of the people I see with medium specs run it pretty well. My video card was great about 2 years ago or more. Now it's very mediocre, but the game runs fine. I do have a dual core and 2 gigs of RAM on win XP.

You aren't using Vista are ya? Get 4 gigs of RAM if you are.

Re:I gave up on TF2 cause it's too laggy on my PC (1)

miscz (888242) | more than 5 years ago | (#26550233)

Run it in DX8 mode. You loose shader effects but it runs leaps and bounds better on hardware of this class and doesn't actually look much worse. One of the computers I'm playing TF2 on has Athlon64 3500+ (single core), 1GB of RAM and GeForce 6600 (not 6600GT, big difference).

Valve, Please Kick EA In The Pants (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26546043)

Dear Valve:

Please kick EA in the ass so that the PS3 people can get some updates and enhancements. Though the press claims that PS3 is the console of the year/future, PS3 TF2 players are still sucking hind tit. It's been a year and a half since TF2 came to PS3 and we've had NOTHING since.

Re:Valve, Please Kick EA In The Pants (2, Funny)

Cornflake917 (515940) | more than 5 years ago | (#26547535)

Dear AC:

Please play TF2 on a PC: The platform that TF2 (or any fps for that matter) was meant to be played on.

Thanks

Re:Valve, Please Kick EA In The Pants (2, Insightful)

JCSoRocks (1142053) | more than 5 years ago | (#26548009)

I love that console users *expect* updates now. Even last-gen consoles never got updates.

Buying for the console is silly anyway. You pay $10-$20 more than you do for the PC version so that you can play the game using a terrible controller. Consoles are good for playing my BluRay, watching my NetFlix and playing Rock Band!

Disclaimer: I grew up on consoles so don't read that the wrong way.

Re:Valve, Please Kick EA In The Pants (0, Flamebait)

philspear (1142299) | more than 5 years ago | (#26549295)

I love that console users *expect* updates now. Even last-gen consoles never got updates.

That would have been pretty amazing if they did. Hard drives and broadband were only standard on the XBOX. Current gen consoles could and do handle it just fine. TF2 has been updated a few times, but that seems to have been just to prevent cheating. Halo has had substantial updates.

Buying for the console is silly anyway. You pay $10-$20 more than you do for the PC version so that you can play the game using a terrible controller.

How is the used PC-game market treating you? And you have to love that DRM. Also the games that don't get to PCs. And then there's the computer maintenece and updates, which we all know are more fun than actually playing games as soon as you turn on the console. You pay hundreds of dollars every so often just to play a smaller selection of games!

Disclaimer: I do PC game, but you have to realize that PC gaming is not perfect either.

Re:Valve, Please Kick EA In The Pants (1)

Hadlock (143607) | more than 5 years ago | (#26550085)

Buying for the console is silly anyway. You pay $10-$20 more than you do for the PC version so that you can play the game using a terrible controller.
 
I dont' disagree with this, but an interesting point on the PS2 was that you COULD play Half-Life on the PS2 with a USB mouse and keyboard. Probably the closest thing to a straight port as humanly possible. Also Left 4 Dead has 360 controller support in the PC version (you have to use a specialized autoexec.cfg file for it to work, but the on screen button overlays, 360 controller tips ect are there). We actually got console version split screen working on my computer with L4D using mouse+kbd as p1 & 360 controller as p2.

Re:Valve, Please Kick EA In The Pants (0, Flamebait)

philspear (1142299) | more than 5 years ago | (#26549467)

Dear cornflake,

I have an 8 year old PC that serves my computing needs but can't run TF2 and can't be updated to that point. Spending thousands of dollars on a gaming rig for one game (two maybe, I would probably play the updated HL1) is a decision so stupid even I wouldn't do it. I also don't even have enough free time to where I should be posting this, so I do not have enough time to set up said computer.

Therefore, please send me a gaming computer set up and ready to play TF2 and I will indeed play it as it was "meant" to be played. Until then, try not to assume what works for you will work for everyone.

Re:Valve, Please Kick EA In The Pants (2, Insightful)

Chabo (880571) | more than 5 years ago | (#26550571)

You can now buy a PC perfectly capable of playing TF2 on high settings for around $400-500, not including the OS or monitor.

http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=3486&p=3 [anandtech.com]
Take that machine, and spend $100 on a video card, and you have a gaming PC. Now, if you spend a bit more for the "budget" system they have listed, then you'll have a complete, balanced computer. But spending "thousands of dollars" is no longer necessary for gaming; it's frivolous spending.

Re:Valve, Please Kick EA In The Pants (1)

mrdoogee (1179081) | more than 5 years ago | (#26548563)

Sorry AC. I too own a PS3. Fortunately I also own a 360. I originally had Orange Box for PS3, I loved it. Portal, and even the HL2 games were a blast. Then I picked up playing TF2. It was more fun than I've had on a FPS in a long while. Eventually though, the glitching and balance issues got to me. Neither Valve or EA has any interest in patching. There is not a big enough user base of FPSes on the PS3 to justify it. So I sold my copy of TOB to Gamestop for $10. One day when valve issues the 360 update for it, I'll probably pick up a used copy.

TF2 is fun on the consoles, sure. But it really shines on the PC. I don't have a PC that runs it, but even I know that I miss the best features (modding, diverse community of players) by "settling" for the console version.

Re:Valve, Please Kick EA In The Pants (1)

ravenshrike (808508) | more than 5 years ago | (#26548629)

This is because Gabe Newell doesn't want to have his company to create a permanent set of programmers to program for the PS3, which if you want the game to be done well, you almost have to do. Either that or take much longer to write any updates or games. While sad, since Valve specializes in FPSs, and FPSs are best played on the PC(Although the two Resistances were good) this does not bother me overmuch.

unlockables (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26546197)

Unlockables ruined the game for so many, including myself. They have no place in a game like this.

Re:unlockables (1)

IndustrialComplex (975015) | more than 5 years ago | (#26549887)

Unlockables ruined the game for so many, including myself. They have no place in a game like this.

Could you expand on that? How did it 'ruin' the game? They tend to be slight gameplay changers, and really aren't necessary to enjoy playing as a vanilla character. Why would they 'have no place' in a game like this?

PS3 version abandoned by valve and EA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26546847)

"The Escapist chatted with Valve's Robin Walker about how the Team Fortress 2 team has been listening to feedback and continually updating the game to fix problems and add to the gameplay experience"

Really? Don't tell that to the PS3 fans. You might get an ear full. The PS3 version was basically abandoned by valve and EA. The problem is valve and EA had another company port it to PS3 and so they both claim they are not responsible for updates for it. This has caused PS3 users to be very upset with valve and EA.

Re:PS3 version abandoned by valve and EA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26549589)

Maybe those PS3 players could, oh I don't know, get upset with the company that did the port instead?

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