×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Linus Switches From KDE To Gnome

timothy posted more than 5 years ago | from the seldon-plan dept.

KDE 869

An anonymous reader writes "In a recent Computerworld interview, Linus revealed that he's switched to Gnome — this despite launching a heavily critical broadside against Gnome just a few years ago. His reason? He thinks KDE 4 is a 'disaster.' Although it's improved recently, he'll find many who agree with this prognosis, and KDE 4 can be painful to use." There's quite a bit of interesting stuff in this interview, besides, regarding the current state of Linux development.

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

869 comments

Yaaaay! (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26590995)

Second Post!

Re:Yaaaay! (1)

Shark (78448) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591043)

I can only imagine the shame of getting a first post wrong...

On topic though, I wonder if that will help motivate the Gnome project. I've always preferred it but I see the flaws just as well as its critiques.

P.S.: I hink I managed to steal your second post claims.

A reasoned analysis? That's good. (4, Insightful)

gcnaddict (841664) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591005)

I first read the summary wondering why anyone cares what Linus uses, but then I noticed that he agrees with the general consensus that KDE4 isn't turning out as well as everyone had hoped...

Here's to KDE doing better with v5.

Re:A reasoned analysis? That's good. (5, Interesting)

Artraze (600366) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591135)

Actually, it's really just more like KDE4 is turning out to be much more work than everyone expected. In less than a week, they'll be putting out 4.2 which will essentially be the first major bugfix/upgrade of KDE4. Version 4.0 was little more than a developer release, and the transition to 4.1 was aimed to include the minimum functionality necessary to actually allow it to replace 3.5. With 4.2, KDE4 should finally be (nearly) what it was intended to be, and further releases will probably focus on simply adding features.

In short, KDE4 is basically a year late.

Re:A reasoned analysis? That's good. (4, Insightful)

yog (19073) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591311)

"In short, KDE4 is basically a year late."

Late for what, though? I initially tried KDE4 because it came with the OpenSuse 11 upgrade and discovered it had a number of broken features. They also said that it was still in beta. I moved back to 3.5 and have had no problems. KDE 3.5 still works great and has plenty of eye candy for when you're bored.

Sometimes I get annoyed with something in Linux, and then I stop and think, wait a minute, this stuff is all free and people have volunteered their time to write a lot of it, so why should I be complaining. I'm just glad that it exists!

At this point, I use almost all open source software--browser, word processor, database, spreadsheet. I'm using H&R Taxcut this year, probably the only software I still purchase on a regular basis.

KDE (and Gnome, too, for that matter--on my Ubuntu laptop) is a fantastic system, very flexible and customizable. I find Windows annoying these days when I am forced to use it--everything's so fixed and locked down. It lacks so much stuff out of the box--you mean I can't just read pdf documents? or have virtual desktops? I need to download Firefox? I find the Mac only a bit better, but on the other hand the Mac allows you to use a nice Unix shell window and that makes everything all better :)

My next step is to extend my computing experience to the handheld, probably replacing my Palm T3 with an iPhone or Android phone over the next year or so. I have great confidence that I'll be able to synchronize and interoperate very well with a KDE/Gnome environment, less so in Windows (which will likely come with a rigid set of drivers and dependencies). But in using stuff on Linux, I find myself wrapping things up in convenient scripts and customizations that in the long run work better than Windows. Linux usually is "late" with stuff but the wait is usually worth it.

Re:A reasoned analysis? That's good. (1, Interesting)

Yetihehe (971185) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591575)

I find Windows annoying these days when I am forced to use it--everything's so fixed and locked down. It lacks so much stuff out of the box--you mean I can't just read pdf documents? or have virtual desktops? I need to download Firefox?

Now imagine if MS would ship pdf viewer with their system, adobe would shred them to pieces with anti-monopoly laws. Just look at problems IE shipping with windows generates (well, but without IE how will I download firefox?)

Re:A reasoned analysis? That's good. (5, Interesting)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591349)

In short, KDE4 is basically a year late.

And it is for that reason that I have such frustration with it...

It used to be, I could in good conscience make jokes about Windows, about how when Microsoft makes a "beta" release, it's what the rest of the world would call an Alpha, the release is really Beta quality, and SP1 is release candidate 1. By SP2, the product might be ready.

I could laugh about how Microsoft, and occasionally other proprietary shops, would follow that model, as opposed to the open source model, where the versioning seems to go, alpha is unstable (so beware), beta is good enough to use, release candidates are pretty solid, and release versions you can bet your business on.

But KDE4 was an alpha release. 4.1 was a beta release. Surrounding projects have done no better -- Amarok currently will not transcode automatically from flac to aac for ipods; it insists on mp3. This is a bug; it used to work. The stable Amarok won't fix the bug, because it's being depricated in favor of the kde4 version of Amarok, which doesn't yet support transcoding. WTF?

Kubuntu has done spectacularly bad as well. My mouse didn't work. Why? Because they included an update to the Bluez stack, to support a change to the kernel, but the KDE4 Bluetooth support hadn't been updated to support that new Bluez stack. Their solution? Drop bluetooth support in Kubuntu Intrepid. WTF?

It has been pretty much my own private Daily WTF as I continue to use KDE4. It's not yet so bad I'm going back to GNOME, but by this time next year, I suspect I'll be using something like Fluxbox again.

Re:A reasoned analysis? That's good. (1)

anss123 (985305) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591473)

Kubuntu has done spectacularly bad as well. My mouse didn't work. Why? Because they included an update to the Bluez stack, to support a change to the kernel, but the KDE4 Bluetooth support hadn't been updated to support that new Bluez stack. Their solution? Drop bluetooth support in Kubuntu Intrepid. WTF?

Eum, isn't KDE a shell? Why does it need to support Bluetooth, isn't that the job for the OS?

Re:A reasoned analysis? That's good. (5, Insightful)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591565)

Eum, isn't KDE a shell? Why does it need to support Bluetooth, isn't that the job for the OS?

Well, the OS supports the physical hardware. Most of the logic of managing which devices are allowed to connect and which aren't, among other things, is managed in user space by a stack called BlueZ, which mostly runs as a daemon and is controlled through arcane config files.

Now, I'm not afraid of arcane config files, but I was a bit spoiled. It was a few clicks to get my mouse working in KDE3. It would probably take me a few hours to learn enough to do it manually with BlueZ.

In KDE3, the bluetooth manager was a separate application. In KDE4, that's still true... sort of. It's also part of the "solid" system, I believe -- which is KDE4's hardware abstraction magic. It wires GUIs to potentially OS-specific backends -- looking at the config pane, it looks to support power management, network management, and bluetooth.

But the idea is that a KDE bluetooth manager should also work on Windows and OS X, neither of which will be running BlueZ. Similarly, the KDE network manager should work on Windows and OS X, neither of which will be running the Ubuntu-like NetworkManager.

Like so many parts of KDE4, it is a really good idea, and you can see how it has the potential for greatness.

Unfortunately, Ubuntu shipped incompatible versions of parts of this stack -- I believe it was that a new BlueZ was required by the new kernel, but the new BlueZ was incompatible with the old Solid. Which means that, out of the box, my mouse didn't work.

That was my introduction to KDE4: Why doesn't my fucking mouse work anymore? It's 2008, and my mouse doesn't work?!

I wish I could say it got better after that. It didn't -- it got worse.

Re:A reasoned analysis? That's good. (1)

xSauronx (608805) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591435)

I tried 4.1 around new years for a week. Almost....almost there. Dolphin choked regularly and I didnt like some other minor things about it (Dolphin) and KDE 4.1 had a few quirks (nothing bad, nothing more than gnome has)

I may try when 4.2 comes out, depending on what others say first. Im not in a hurry to switch DEs.

Re:A reasoned analysis? That's good. (4, Interesting)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591181)

I still go on a who cares... If you like KDE 4 and everyone else doesn't who really cares. If you don't like GNOME who really cares.
I can't speak for everyone but what is the point of caring what Linux, RMS, ESR, Bill Gates, President Obama... personal preferences are. The same goes with changing your mind, I switched from DOS/windows 3.1 to Linux back in 1994, Then I switched from Linux to Solaris in 2000, Solaris to Mac OS X in 2002. While I was primarly using Linux and Solaris I jumped around windows managers. FVWM, MWM, CDE, Enlightment, GNome, KDE, back and forth. You know what there are also some really smart people who Like Vista!
Every software sometimes they give you tradeoffs that you don't want. But for some other people they like those tradeoffs. KDE 4 may have moved in a direction that Linus doesn't like as well as a bunch of other people. However There are some people who do like what the tradeoffs were.

Re:A reasoned analysis? That's good. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26591249)

fuck you troll

Re:A reasoned analysis? That's good. (5, Informative)

Zephiris (788562) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591221)

KDE 4.0, and to a lesser degree 4.1, lacked quite a few nice customization features that KDE has had for the longest time. KDE 4.2 refixes the taskbar configuration...so you can actually do something useful with it again.
KDE 4.0 and 4.1 are nowhere near as functional or customizable as 3.5, 4.2 restores virtually all of it as well as adding compelling new standard/addon features.
4.0 was supposedly 'just a developer preview', and I personally think they dropped the ball on 4.1. Everyone was expecting it to just be 'ready'.
Though, one begs the question.
If Linus is an advanced user, why was he pressured to upgrade from 3.5 to 4.x in the first place? Couldn't he have just kept using 3.5 if that's what he preferred, rather than the GNOME which he hated?
I know the 'user friendly' distros tend to be a bit aggressive about pre-planned obsolescence, but that's little excuse not to find a supported and proper way to use the software and specific versions you prefer.

Re:A reasoned analysis? That's good. (3, Insightful)

aliquis (678370) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591291)

I don't understand why he couldn't use KDE 3.x until 4.x was more usable?

KDE 3.5 works great, Ubuntu dropped the ball (3, Interesting)

SgtChaireBourne (457691) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591579)

KDE 4 is not a year late, it's just being pushed out by the distros before it is ready instead of working with KDE 3.5.

KDE 3.5 still works great. KDE 4 is not yet in alpha stage, which is fine for those that like the bleeding edge. The side effect is that it is still really is slow, awkward, buggy and incomplete.

So, I'm not sure why Torvalds feels compelled to highlight this. The fault is not necessarily for KDE 4 using a long time to take form. The real mistake, perhaps an intentional one, is for distros like Ubuntu to roll out a clearly unready desktop. One really could question the intent there.

If Ubuntu, and others, were serious about helping rather than harming, they'd set up a nice KDE 3.5 as a default for options like Kubuntu or KDE-Fedora. Remember, years ago, Red Hat had tricked out both leading desktop environments with common themes, bells and whistles. I'd like to see a return to those brief moments of common sense.

A side effect of the unreadiness of KDE4, hiding of KDE 3.5 and the turds that M$-Novell is dropping in the GNOME punch bowl, is that users are discovering Xfce [apt], Fluxbox [apt], FVWM-crystal [apt] and many others. (Ubuntu URLS there) Speaking of running window managers without a desktop environment, Compiz can be run like that, too.

It makes sense... (4, Interesting)

rgo (986711) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591013)

Gnome doesn't get in your way. It doesn't shout "PLEASE CONFIGURE ME!" in your face as KDE does.

Re:It makes sense... (0, Flamebait)

siride (974284) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591029)

Yes, that's because you can't configure GNOME, and it doesn't do what you need it to do, so you just give up and accept the brown-plated shit that is given to you.

Re:It makes sense... (1, Flamebait)

Xabraxas (654195) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591069)

Yes, that's because you can't configure GNOME, and it doesn't do what you need it to do, so you just give up and accept the brown-plated shit that is given to you.

You could always just grow a brain and use gconf, but I guess it is just easier to bitch and moan.

Re:It makes sense... (4, Informative)

siride (974284) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591123)

Yes, I am aware of and use gconf. And it helps some, but there's still some bone-headed design decision. My favorite, of course, is how they made it so that cursor blinking is a global setting. It doesn't matter if you use gconf or not, either your cursor blinks everywhere, including the terminal, or it blinks nowhere. That is, neither setting is acceptable.

Re:It makes sense... (5, Insightful)

onefriedrice (1171917) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591231)

My favorite, of course, is how they made it so that cursor blinking is a global setting. It doesn't matter if you use gconf or not, either your cursor blinks everywhere, including the terminal, or it blinks nowhere. That is, neither setting is acceptable.

Wow. If that is your favorite thing to complain about, I guess Gnome must be pretty good...

Re:It makes sense... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26591305)

Jeez, why the fuss over a blinking cursor? Get over it.

Re:It makes sense... (1)

Xabraxas (654195) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591335)

That is, neither setting is acceptable.

Really? That's the best you could come up with? I guess that's my problem with the anti-GNOME crowd. I just don't find it necessary for you to be able to change whether or not the cursor blinks in every single application independently. I don't think that's a must-have feature for most people either. GNOME tries to avoid having all of those crufty configuration options to make it easier to use and configure. You can't include every option under the sun just because one or two people use those options and then expect the system to remain simple. It's also a mess for UI consistency to do things like that. Eliminating useless options like independent cursor blinking and other cruft makes the code smaller and less bug prone.

Re:It makes sense... (5, Insightful)

siride (974284) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591437)

What is wrong with having the options? And there is a very good reason why the terminal should have a separate setting for textfields: it's not a textfield and it doesn't act like one. I don't want an annoying blinking box of a cursor in my terminal. It is, however, nice to have a blinking cursor in textfields.

Now on to the rest of your points. Who does it hurt to have extra config options? If the defaults are sane, then regular users don't have to touch them, but for people who care, the options are available. I mean, I thought this was the whole point of Linux and FOSS, that you wouldn't have some monolithic entity telling you how you are going to use your computer and what is "best" for you. GNOME is the anti-thesis of this. GNOME knows how things should be. GNOME knows that you only need to care about blinking cursors globally. GNOME knows that you don't want to make good use of your screen real-estate so all themes have to have huge amounts of wasted space. GNOME knows that you don't want to change settings, so they are hidden away in gconf instead of being in a useful and documented config dialog. Etc. etc. etc.

Re:It makes sense... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26591497)

Yeah, but why on earth would I want a desktop with a smelly foot on it?

Re:It makes sense... (2, Interesting)

ArcherB (796902) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591451)

Yes, I am aware of and use gconf. And it helps some, but there's still some bone-headed design decision. My favorite, of course, is how they made it so that cursor blinking is a global setting. It doesn't matter if you use gconf or not, either your cursor blinks everywhere, including the terminal, or it blinks nowhere. That is, neither setting is acceptable.

Yeah. I like how I used to be able to sync my Palm based phone using KPilot. It wasn't great, but it kept my calendar and contact lists synced up with Kalendar and Kontact, which were great applications. Now, for no known reason, KPilot is no longer part of KDE since KDE4 and no other way to sync my Palm device with Kalendar and Kontact. In other words, I could do MORE in KDE 3.5 than I can do in KDE4.x! What a load of crap. Should I be able to do MORE with KDE4?

Sorry, but design decisions, I can get over and work around. If a Friggin Blinky Cursor is your biggest problem, then I'd say you got it pretty good. I lost functionality when I moved to KDE4! There are things that I simply can no longer do. I am stuck using G-Pilot and Evolution, both are Gnome apps. So again, design is simply a matter of making a desktop pretty. Functionality means that I can get stuff done. I can NOT do the things I need to do in KDE without Gnome.

Sorry, I loved KDE 3.x, but KDE4 sux and is completely unusable!

Re:It makes sense... (1)

siride (974284) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591529)

Goddamn it I didn't say it was my biggest problem. I just mentioned it because it was representative of the kind of philosophy and design decisions that go into GNOME.

Re:It makes sense... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26591131)

Flamewar already! I really did not expect that!

Honestly? (5, Funny)

copponex (13876) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591219)

Linus, Gnome, and KDE in are in the title. I'm surprised no one's been compared to Hitler yet.

Re:Honestly? (3, Funny)

G Morgan (979144) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591537)

Don't be silly. We'd have those Godwin's law quoting Nazi's dominating the thread then.

Re:It makes sense... (1)

MiKM (752717) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591233)

Even touching gconf is pretty much unnecessary these days. The only reason I've had to was to put the trash icon on the desktop.

Re:It makes sense... (5, Insightful)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591419)

You could always just grow a brain and use gconf,

Or I could be lazy and use KDE, which, instead of forcing me to use arcane commandline utilities and XML, provides me with a nice GUI and a much simpler, much more UNIX-y set of config files. KDE4 screwed it up a lot, but it's still nowhere near as bad as GNOME.

I'll remind people one of the older reasons Linus chose KDE: There's a nice GUI for configuring what each mouse button on the title bar of a window does. In GNOME, this functionality simply wasn't available. I assume it wasn't in a config file either, because Linus ended up having to write a patch. Once he wrote it, he couldn't figure out where to send it.

Now, if Linus fucking Torvalds can't figure out where to send a patch, you have a problem.

Re:It makes sense... (2, Insightful)

ickpoo (454860) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591207)

I recently switched to Gnome because KDE 4.1 whatever shipped with Fedora 10 was a cluster (wouldn't remember the position of stuff in the panel). Configuring Gnome was painful and significantly less intuitive that the previous versions of KDE.

The specific setting I wanted was focus follows mouse, don't raise. Setting this involved the configuration tool (don't know the name) and using gconf and using google to figure out what and where the configuration setting I'm looking for is. Even KDE 4.* made setting focus follows mouse easy, I'm not sure why Gnome choose to bury half the options.

Gnome is configurable, but the tool used to configure it (gconf) makes it significantly more complicated than it needs to be.

Re:It makes sense... (1)

Xabraxas (654195) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591467)

Gnome is configurable, but the tool used to configure it (gconf) makes it significantly more complicated than it needs to be.

How so? Open gconf-editor. Ctrl-F to search. Search for "focus". The first option returned is for mouse focus. The keys gernerally have descriptions and a list of available options too. What's so hard about that?

Re:It makes sense... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26591553)

How about a menu item called... lets think here for a moment... mouse? Nah, never happen.

Re:It makes sense... (4, Informative)

Darkk (1296127) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591587)

There is actually one tool I use alot is Ubuntu Tweak which fixes some of the gripes that we Gnome users complain about.

Features of Ubuntu Tweak

        * View of Basic System Information(Distribution, Kernel, CPU, Memory, etc.)
        * GNOME Session Control
        * Auto Start Program Control
        * Show/Hide and Change Splash screen
        * Show/Hide desktop icons or Mounted Volumes
        * Show/Hide/Rename Computer, Home, Trash icon or Network icon
        * Tweak Metacity Window Managerâ(TM)s Style and Behavior
        * Compiz Fusion settings, Screen Edge Settings, Window Effects Settings, Menu Effect Settins
        * GNOME Panel Settings
        * Nautilus Settings
        * Advanced Power Management Settings
        * System Security Settings

http://ubuntu-tweak.com/ [ubuntu-tweak.com]

Re:It makes sense... (5, Insightful)

anagama (611277) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591277)

I used to be a KDE user spending hours tweaking my Desktop. Nothing wrong with that -- there are some cool setups out there. For the last couple years though, I've been using Gnome. Not because it's better or anything like that, it's just that I got tired of tweaking the look of my Desktop and I like Gnome's defaults better than KDE's.

I do like how Konqueror will let you just type "ssh://SOMEADDRESS" and act as nice file browser with all the drag and drop joy you get locally, and maybe Nautilus will let you do that -- it does let you set a server connection over SSH which obviates the need to type out "ssh://SOMEADDRESS" every time, but I still like Konqueror's functionality. Also, remote launching Konqueror works great, but remotely launching Nautilus is a disaster.

All that aside, I've simply grown tired of tweaking my Desktop. Half my computers still have the default wallpaper from whatever distro I installed. Luckily, the linux world has something for everyone -- KDE for tweakers, Gnome for the lazy or tired, xfce for the agile, Enlightenment for -- I dunno -- etc. etc. etc.

Use what makes you happy.

Re:It makes sense... (2, Interesting)

ArcherB (796902) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591303)

Yes, that's because you can't configure GNOME, and it doesn't do what you need it to do, so you just give up and accept the brown-plated shit that is given to you.

Since we are comparing Gnome to KDE, I have to call a serious BS on that. Since reading your comment, I decided to log off my Gnome desktop and log in using KDE4.1.

First, half of my "notification" icons in the kicker on the bottom are half blue. Before too long, all the icons will be gone completely.

Next, I run a dual monitor setup. My task bar is on the monitor on the left. I tried to drag it like I could in KDE3.5... nothing. I tried to right click on it like I do in Gnome. I got a menu, but "Move" was not an option. Finally, I figured out that I have to click on "Panel Settings", which put another panel on top of the first one, but still no way to move the panel. Finally, I learn through trial and error that the panel can be dragged and dropped, but only when the settings panel is open, and you can only drag the "settings" panel, not the actual panel itself. Oh, and it took three or four tries before I got it right. First it spread all my panel "widgets" all over the screen for no apparent reason. then it just moved the settings panel. The third try just moved the taskbar.... Finally, the panel moved to the right monitor, where I wanted it to begin with. It is listed as the "default" monitor, btw.

Also, there is no way to resize a panel like I could in kde3 and can still do in Gnome. There is no way to stack taskbar items like I could in KDE3 (I had it set to three rows of applications).

So, please, tell me again how KDE4.x is more configurable than Gnome.

Re:It makes sense... (1)

siride (974284) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591511)

Uhh, I didn't say KDE 4 was great, but simply that GNOME sucks. I am still using KDE 3.5 myself and probably won't switch to 4 until 4.2 or probably 4.3. Everything you mentioned about KDE 4 is spot on and that's part of why I don't like it. It's also missing features, has stability issues and is much slower than 3.5. KWin still can't do compositing without visual glitches and major slowdowns on my machine, where KDE 3.5 did just fine and compiz also works great.

Re:It makes sense... (5, Interesting)

htnmmo (1454573) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591127)

That might be what's wrong with KDE but I think it's important to note WHY Gnome might have done things better.

Gnome has a lot more backing from big names in computing and KDE doesn't. It's not just big money, it's a lot of experience in user interfaces. Companies like Sun, Novell, IBM have helped Gnome be better suited to users.

Sun's accessibility contributions were a big plus.

Re:It makes sense... (2, Insightful)

Bearhouse (1034238) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591195)

True, but then again, many people cite the 'ease' of configurability of KDE as being why they like it.

A halfway-house would be nice - good default installation but easy tweaking via GUI as users got more advanced and confident. A bit like - dare I say it - Windows does it. Then again, even with windows you still end up having to download stuff like TweakUi or other powertools - or directly ediing the registry - for some stuff, (or using the console, which is OK).

Re:It makes sense... (1)

anagama (611277) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591377)

... many people cite the 'ease' of configurability of KDE as being why they like it.

I actually gave KDE a go recently on a fresh install of a special purpose machine. After 15 minutes of trying to figure out how to change the Desktop font settings so that it wasn't black text with a white outline, I had to resort to google. KDE is ubertweakable, but that can make simple things hard to find. It was 3.5 though, not 4, so maybe things have improved, but I haven't KDE necessarily easy to configure. It just gives you a lot of options to twiddle.

Re:It makes sense... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26591283)

However, that's why Linus liked KDE3. Linus doesn't have much of a history of appreciating an elegant interface.

Re:It makes sense... (1)

CarpetShark (865376) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591503)

It doesn't shout "PLEASE CONFIGURE ME!" in your face as KDE does.

I was quite happy to configure KDE, when it had the options I needed. I was also stunned by the things that just worked without configuration in 3.x, that GNOME (and windows) still don't do.

However, with KDE 4.x, the only shouting I hear goes something like "I'm a prototype built with animated gifs and javascript. Please implement me! Preferably with standard GUI widgets instead of this silly theme stuff."

Re:It makes sense... (2, Insightful)

RichiH (749257) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591569)

True, Gnome simply ignores your wishes. And _if_ you want to configure Gnome stuff, it's either text files or their version of regedit.

No bad feelings, everyone should use what they want. But to claim that Gnome is easy to use is a misrepresentation in _my_ opinion.

Definitive. (2, Insightful)

Arthur Grumbine (1086397) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591017)

Linus switches from KDE to Gnome

Thus proving beyond the shadow of a doubt the weakness of arguments from authority.

Re:Definitive. (1)

rolfwind (528248) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591137)

Thus proving beyond the shadow of a doubt the weakness of arguments from authority.

An argument from an authority is something to keep it mind. It shouldn't dictate your thinking.

Linus's needs at any one time will be different from yours or mine. And vice versa.

Anyway, I always liked Gnome. KDE used to feel really cluttered and buggy (many kde-based distros back in the day where the basic compiler stuff didn't work out of the box without throwing out errors, just trying to compile your basic helloworld.c for instance) although I haven't tried it since the 2.x day tbh.

Re:Definitive. (1)

AceofSpades19 (1107875) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591247)

Thus proving beyond the shadow of a doubt the weakness of arguments from authority.

An argument from an authority is something to keep it mind. It shouldn't dictate your thinking.

Linus's needs at any one time will be different from yours or mine. And vice versa.

Anyway, I always liked Gnome. KDE used to feel really cluttered and buggy (many kde-based distros back in the day where the basic compiler stuff didn't work out of the box without throwing out errors, just trying to compile your basic helloworld.c for instance) although I haven't tried it since the 2.x day tbh.

the distro's compiler not working is kde's fault?

Actually... (5, Insightful)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591535)

Actually, I think the key word is missing there. The real fallacy is "argument from false authority."

As a hypothetical example: If an recognized astrophysicist says that there's something fishy about the amount of existing dark matter, that's a real authority on the subject matter, and is certainly something to keep in mind. If Obama says it, he's just not qualified to make that kind of a judgment, and it's simply something to ignore. For all his authority in politics and law, he's as qualified to talk about astrophysics as the local barber.

In this case I don't think Linus is an authority on usability or anything even remotely relevant to KDE vs GNOME. It's his personal tastes vs yours, nothing more. Unless you happen to know that his tastes accidentally match yours to the letter, it's something to thoroughly ignore.

Of course, that won't stop people from being fashion victims and trying to imitate him anyway. That's why celebrity endorsements work. That's why you see video clips with Van Damme and whatnot saying that they play WoW, for example. Because a lot of John Does out there will try to be like monkeys imitating that celebrity. Or why you see Fatal1ty branded heatsinks, although I don't think he'd know enough physics to actually judge a design, nor the experience of having tested 100 heatsinks and picked the best. That's appeal to false authority.

I don't doubt that here too a lot of people switched to KDE just because Linus blasted GNOME, and will now hastily switch back to GNOME because Linus uses it now so it must be cool.

Re:Definitive. (1)

0xFCE2 (859134) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591257)

It's not only an argument from authority. I wouldn't care if Obama switched from KDE to Gnome, but Linus is a very technical minded person (aka a geek), and he's switching for a reason. And many other people with a similar mindest share this view.

No, proof of sanity (4, Insightful)

CarpetShark (865376) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591263)

Not quite. Back when Linus advocated KDE over GNOME, he was right on. KDE3.5 or so was vastly superior to GNOME in terms of features and polish. However, KDE 4.x has taken a step backwards, and shows no convincing signs of progress, which is why I've switched back to GNOME as well (having not used it since about 2.2). Linus is promoting the best option available at the time, without bias. Which is perfectly sane, and valid.

Basically, KDE has great tech. BUT core developers seem to have some sort of arrogance about listening to the community and some sort of project-deathwish which manifests in a horrible release process, minor versions that don't work until x.4 or so, and poor support for non-core developers. Moreover they've alienated some of the very groups they tried to encourage early in the KDE 4 brainstorming process. Finally, they generally seem to suffer from lack of manpower, which they have never really tried to solve. If you believed the hype the core devs were spouting, KDE 4 was going well, and no help was needed, until the product actually appeared as a release and everyone saw the real situation. KDE technology is great. If 4.4+ rocks the way 3.4+ did, and they don't make the same mistakes with 5.[0123], then they still have a chance. But for now, frankly, it's been terribly mismanaged.

Re:Definitive. (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591269)

Thus proving beyond the shadow of a doubt the weakness of arguments from authority.

Did Linus actually use an argument from authority? Did he say to use what he uses just because of the fact that he uses it?

ubuntu is gnome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26591045)

while I do think that gnome has come a long way I think that the fact that ubuntu, the most friendly (debatable) of the new big linux distro can't be ignored as a factor in this.

What, no love for other window managers? (2, Funny)

BadAnalogyGuy (945258) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591051)

Yes, KDE and Gnome are pretty big names when it comes to window managers, but there are other worthy WMs out there too!

Windows, for example.

Re:What, no love for other window managers? (4, Funny)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591059)

Yes, KDE and Gnome are pretty big names when it comes to window managers, but there are other worthy WMs out there too!

Windows, for example.

Yes, but does it run Linux? And what about that whole Beowulf cluster thing?

Re:What, no love for other window managers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26591555)

... *silence* bahwhahahh!!! wait, were you being serious?

Both Suck (1, Troll)

still-a-geek (653160) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591087)

Personally, KDE and Gnome both suck. They're both heavy-weight X-Window environments. I like XFCE better because it's simple, doesn't contain all of those "extra applications" I will never use, and is lightweight (IMHO).

Re:Both Suck (2, Funny)

im_thatoneguy (819432) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591205)

ersonally, KDE and Gnome both suck. They're both heavy-weight X-Window environments. I like XFCE better because it's simple, doesn't contain all of those "extra applications" I will never use, and is lightweight (IMHO).

So because a product has more features than you'll use it sucks?

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Re:Both Suck (1)

Anonymous Cowled (917825) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591245)

Personally, KDE and Gnome both suck. They're both heavy-weight X-Window environments. I like XFCE better because it's simple, doesn't contain all of those "extra applications" I will never use, and is lightweight (IMHO).

Lightweight? Try my current favourite: fluxbox. Weighing in at less than 4 MB for the WM... or Pek at less than 1MB!!

Re:Both Suck (3, Informative)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591479)

I actually got sick of having to learn and spend time on every new thing, and having people laugh at me while I was reading the iwconfig manpage, while they just clicked a menu on OS X and joined a wireless network.

With Kubuntu Hardy and KDE3, the joke was on them. Everything Just Worked, out of the box, with far more configurability than just about anything else. All those "extra applications" includes things like wifi, bluetooth, sound, and USB mass storage hotplug, as simple, intuitive GUIs that require no more learning than "Let's try right-clicking the Bluetooth icon... Oh, I get how this works."

Then came Kubuntu Intrepid and KDE4. Bluetooth didn't work. Wireless became more complex, and no longer uses kdewallet to store things. I'm taking a long, hard look at things like xfce, fluxbox, or just rolling my own.

And... (1, Interesting)

El Lobo (994537) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591095)

I really find all those "celebrities" and "personalities" articles to be only anecdotal. So he likes Gnome? Fine. I'm sure some other "celebrity" likes KDE more. And some others use the command line only. Me? I like Windows more. Yes, It's not cool to say that in this play, but we're telling anecdotes here...so...I'm telling mine.

The point is, no matter what Linus, Stallman, Gates, Jobs use...that shouldn't matter for anyone else.

Re:And... (1)

ChienAndalu (1293930) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591439)

Do you pick out movies without reading reviews too? Just click the random button in Imdb?

Let me tell you, it's all fine and dandy until you stumble upon Battlefield Earth.

Or Microsoft Bob.

Anyone care? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26591103)

God Linus has spoken and now all Linux followers shall dump their false idols of KDE and embrace the new idol of Gnome. while this Linux follower has completely left the fold and follows the old path of Bill Gates and worships the new shiny Windows Vista.

Still why does anyone care? Use Gnome use KDE. Use proper sentences. It reminds me of all the other tech crap...Steve Jobs likes to scratch his ass with a matchbook cover...so Mac people start scratching their asses...Bill Gates uses the Constitution to blow his nose...you get the point. Use what works...thati s what the point of open source is. If it doesn't work try something else...but make that decision yourself.

Anonymous Coward...because I know you people and I don't want to have to hack off heads with my +1 Axe

Temporary measure (5, Insightful)

oever (233119) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591111)

Linus will be back. KDE 4.2 is turning out very nice and I'm sure he will give it a try. By upgrading his Fedora he was more or less forced to choose between GNOME 2 or KDE 4.0. Fedora should not have chosen KDE 4.0 over KDE 3.5. Only now with version 4.2 has KDE reached an acceptable level of quality again.

Re:Temporary measure (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26591281)

Yes,

But how do you imagine that people would test KDE 4 if distributions did not make them available early?

This is why Fedora is important for open source. Previously with KDE 4, now with ext4, it pushes OS development forward.

Re:Temporary measure (0, Troll)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591431)

well, I switched from being a long time KDE user to GNOME because of 4.2. what a train wreck!

Re:Temporary measure (2)

morbuz (592480) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591581)

well, I switched from being a long time KDE user to GNOME because of 4.2. what a train wreck!

KDE 4.2 has not been released yet.

Re:Temporary measure (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591493)

Linus will be back. KDE 4.2 is turning out very nice and I'm sure he will give it a try.

Indeed. I'm told it's even approaching the quality of a 4.0 release.

As it is, I've pretty much lost all faith. Kubuntu broke my Bluetooth with the Intrepid release. WTF?

Re:Temporary measure (1)

RichiH (749257) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591589)

Exactly. I switched to the 4 series on my laptop the day 4.1 came out. With 4.2, I will migrate my girlfriend (i.e. this weekend) and with 4.3, I plan to migrate my box at work.

KDE 4 is a downgrade (5, Informative)

kasdaye (1243382) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591115)

I used to use KDE 3 (Kubuntu) and I, somewhat recently, installed the latest version of Kubuntu with KDE 4. To be as clear as possible: KDE 4 is a trainwreck. At first I took it in stride and figured that a brand new release might be a little buggy, no harm. I'm using KDE 4.2 RC1 now and it's still horrible.

Re:KDE 4 is a downgrade (5, Insightful)

go_epsilon_go (802226) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591385)

It seems that nobody remembers the transition between KDE 1 and KDE 2. KDE 2 was a major redesign over the 1 series, and at the beginning had the same issues that KDE 4 right now has. But eventually it grew up into the beautiful 3.5 series. So I think we'll have what we're expecting from KDE 4 around 4.5 version. Go KDE! Just my 2 cents.

Tempest on a mousepad (5, Insightful)

Dystopian Rebel (714995) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591151)

Linus has plenty of other things to say in this interview. Why focus on this less important aspect of the discussion?

Because LT doesn't like how KDE is right now? That's his choice, just as it was to like KDE more than Gnome before.

Software is not perfect and it only achieves usefulness by stages, as LT himself mentions in discussing Git. A living project is a changing project. Not everyone is going to like the changes.

Re:Tempest on a mousepad (1)

blueg3 (192743) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591295)

Liking something isn't actually a choice, it's an opinion. Whether or not you use something is a choice.

Or to not quote him partially... (5, Informative)

pagaboy (1029878) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591157)

Linus says...

I used to be a KDE user. I thought KDE 4.0 was such a disaster I switched to GNOME. I hate the fact that my right button doesn't do what I want it to do. But the whole "break everything" model is painful for users and they can choose to use something else.
I realise the reason for the 4.0 release, but I think they did it badly. They did so may changes it was a half-baked release. It may turn out to be the right decision in the end and I will re-try KDE, but I suspect I'm not the only person they lost.
I got the update through Fedora and there was a mismatch from KDE 3 to KDE 4.0. The desktop was not as functional and it was just a bad experience for me. I'll revisit it when I reinstall the next machine which tends to be every six to eight months.

Which isn't exactly the same thing, and probably not many people at KDE will be all that surprised. KDE4 is new, it has teething problems. It was risk, but we'll find out later if it was a risk worth taking.

Now that is interesting (1, Interesting)

Seraphim_72 (622457) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591543)

I reinstall the next machine which tends to be every six to eight months.

For something that is so stable I am surprised that he reformats that often. I have no real insight here I just find it odd.

Sera

Show Some Leadership (1, Funny)

JoeSixpack00 (1327135) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591175)

As a long time (and current) supporter of KDE, I currently run a gnome only setup. Having said that...

1) I used KDE 4.1 under openSUSE, and I couldn't even remotely understand what all the fuss is about with KDE4. Maybe someone distros stabilize the desktop more than others.

2) Most importantly, had another large figure in the OSS community made such a comment about the kernel (and justifiably so I might add), I don't think he would have liked it much. As a developer on another large project, you would think that Linux of all people would understand. This is the only problem I have with Linus: He knows a large percentage of the Linux community hang on his every word, yet he still acts like he's just a guy hanging out in a chatroom. Knowing this, you would think he'd be more responsible about the comments he makes. Even though no one "owns" Linux, you'd be in denial if you said he wasn't the one person that had a claim to the throne. So when Linux finally does get on the brink of widespread usage, how do you think the goody-goodies are going to respond when someone digs up old mailing list threads of him cursing like a sailor or being a jerk?

Please add the "hahaha" tag (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26591227)

Linus's lack of commitment confirms it: Linux GUIs still suck.

What is all this about? (5, Insightful)

VolkerLanz (1005127) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591237)

There are six pages of interview with Linus. Him now using Gnome instead of KDE is covered in three and a half paragraphs. Come on, this is a little sensationalist, picking on this rather minor issue for the headline, isn't it? No, I'm not new here, I just like to point out how childish that seems.

Linus says KDE 4.0 was a "half baked release". Yes it was. He complains he got the update pushed through Fedora and that it "was not as functional". I'm sure it wasn't. He also might want to reconsider his choice of Linux distribution if he isn't happy with their update policy.

We've been through this a million times here and on most any other tech site on the whole of the web: KDE 4.0 wasn't ready for general use, KDE themselves said so, it might have been a mistake to release it anyway, or not, the communication could have been a lot clearer, yada yada yada.

Linus thinks so, too. Fine. Also, yawn.

WTF (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26591259)

How the hell is this news? Who gives a shit what WM Linus is running? What's next - updates every time he compiles something or installs a new package?

You Linux faggots really need to get a life.

KDE 4 is a disaster (4, Insightful)

squoozer (730327) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591289)

I love KDE, I have done from the start, but there is no getting away from the fact that the way the switch to KDE 4 has been handled is a completely disaster (I've been using KDE 4.1 for a few months now). I can sort of see why the team directing KDE have done this but I'm sure it could have been handled a lot better than it has been.

Hind sight is a perfect science but before I radically changed KDE I would have made damn sure that the most popular software that relies on KDE was going to have a version ready about the same time KDE was released. Not having a KDE 4 version of Amarok for example is terrible.

Over all I think KDE will end up stronger for this change. The bits that are working are really nice I'm just worried that it will take 5 years to get to the point where full advantage can be taken of the effort that has been put in. In the end I think KDE will be the dominant desktop but Gnome must be seriously gaining support at the moment.

Re:KDE 4 is a disaster (1)

GleeBot (1301227) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591491)

In the end I think KDE will be the dominant desktop but Gnome must be seriously gaining support at the moment.

Didn't learn anything from Windows vs. Mac, did you?

Re:KDE 4 is a disaster (1)

JoeSixpack00 (1327135) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591561)

Hind sight is a perfect science but before I radically changed KDE I would have made damn sure that the most popular software that relies on KDE was going to have a version ready about the same time KDE was released. Not having a KDE 4 version of Amarok for example is terrible.

First of all, you can't make the developers get it done in time. Hell you can't even make them work hard towards a deadline. As one poster said before: so should KDE just become enlightenment? (on delay so long people lose interest) Secondly, This whole fuss about Amarok not being ready is just BS. Again, I used openSUSE, and I honestly had to check the about dialog to see what version of Amarok I was using. Third and most importantly, does anyone ever make this same argument for GNOME? Banshee wasn't exactly stable, yet I don't hear anyone screaming about that. The only reason this is an issue is because KDE is the biggest and most popular desktop environment. When GNOME makes blunders, it doesn't grab nearly as many headlines.

In the end I think KDE will be the dominant desktop but Gnome must be seriously gaining support at the moment.

I doubt it. The bottom line is people use KDE and GNOME for completely different reasons, and GNOME can't provide what KDE provides and vice versa. The same people who left will switch right back as soon as they're told it's stable, and the few people that stay on gnome will be replaced by GNOME users curious about the new stable KDE4.

Re:KDE 4 is a disaster (3, Interesting)

kimvette (919543) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591591)

The latest build of amaroK (2.0.1) is a heck of a lot better than the previous KDE 4.x amaroK builds. It still doesn't support syncing with MP3 players or mass storage devices but now the play list is searchable. I can live with it - if I need to sync with a player I can use the KDE3 version, but for just listening the KDE4 version is usable.

Now to be fair to the KDE team, much of it was a total rewrite and they have made it clear that KDE4 and early KDE4.1 will be missing a lot of legacy features, and that those missing features will be ported in as time goes on.

I hated KDE 4.0 - it was missing the folder view for the desktop. Ever since the Amiga and the original Mac I've expected the desktop to be a folder, and when I ran Win3x I ran Norton Desktop, which gave me a desktop folder metaphor.

I find the current KDE4 to be about as good as KDE up through 3.1 - usable, but not ideal, which made the availability of Gnome really nice. KDE 3.5 made me a diehard KDE user. I use KDE4.1 + compiz-fusion for my desktop environment, and have KDE 3.5 installed so I have access to all the apps with the kio slaves for work. I've come to hate gnome, with all of the dumbing down of the environment that has gone on for 5+ years -- ESPECIALLY the file open/save dialogs.

Also KDE isn't just for power users; I've sat novices in front of both gnome and KDE 3.5 and they invariably find their way around KDE 3.5 a lot easier. They can sit down and just use it without having to ask many questions.

Many accuse KDE of trying to be Windows, but my experience is that it has provided the best of Mac OS X and the best of Windows, a lot of additional functionality power users need (such as the kio slaves in konqueror, PLUS tabbed file management), AND provided the ability to extensively customize settings without having to recompile. On top of that, gnome uses a registry-style database for what settings you CAN tweak, and forces you to use gconf, whereas if there is a setting here or there that KDE does not provide a GUI for, you can tweak a config file and not have to recompile anything.

Linus has changed desktops before, and when KDE 4.x becomes more feature-rich expect to read remarks that he's changed back to KDE 4.x. IMHO, this is non-news. Something newsworthy from Linus would be that he's retiring from Linux kernel development, or he's decided FreeBSD is the way to go, or he's released the 3.0 version of the kernel.

KDE4 is not a disaster by any means; the current situation is the lack of understanding that the KDE team is releasing limited but stable features, and that KDE4.x is not considered feature-complete by anyone at this time.

If you're missing KDE 3.5.x functionality and need it, perhaps you need to choose KDE 3.5.x, or at least do what I am doing and run KDE 3.5.x and KDE4.x side-by-side.

There are a lot of things missing from kwin that I really like and miss, but I am using it understanding that the environment isn't complete by any stretch of the imagination.

Best Linus quote from TFA (1)

gzipped_tar (1151931) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591317)

"End-users will do crazy things that no amount of testing infrastructure will get."

Actually TFA is quite good read about various things around Linux. The KDE vs. GNOME part is the least interesting IMO. Go read it and get modded down ;-)

A bug in TFA: the Qs and As are using the same font & color and there's no "Q:" or "A:" markers before them, so it looks like a monologue...

No last name anymore? (1)

damn_registrars (1103043) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591339)

Apparently there are no other people [wikipedia.org] named [wikipedia.org] Linus [wikipedia.org]?

I enjoy Linux as much as the next guy (maybe even more) but I don't think Torvalds is worthy of being regarded as the only Linus. Maybe if he were to win two Nobel prizes [wikipedia.org] I would be more impressed. Though perhaps he could be considered the head of a religion [wikipedia.org]?

Re:No last name anymore? (1)

DanZ23 (901353) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591585)

Because of the context used, I think it's completely reasonable to refer to him by his first name.

Do you really think someone on /. didn't know which Linus was being referenced? In the world of OSS, there really is only one "Linus".

I agree. Kde4 has issues (4, Insightful)

quo_vadis (889902) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591365)

I think Linus is right on this one. I have been using KDE based linux desktops on my primary computer for ~7 years now. KDE 4 is a huge step back. The even bigger problem is that linux distros (Kubuntu and OpenSuse) are happily pushing KDE4.1 as the default KDE desktop. In fact with Kubuntu 8.10, there is no option. For KDE 3.5 you have to use 8.04. KDE 4 takes the GNOME approach to desktops (i.e. user's IQ is equivalent to a mostly dead rodent of unusually small size and any options would confuse poor afore mentioned user and therefore options are bad). Before the GNOME loving flames begin, yes I know there exist external tools to start fiddling with options, but the amount of flexibility is not the same as KDE 3.5.10.

KDE 4 unfortunately takes the GNOME approach, and removes flexibility. Worse still, all the developer time for KDE 4 is now going into polishing the interface (which while shiny is no better or more intuitive than KDE 3.5) while not bothering fixing apps people actually use. For example, on KDE 4.2, if you add a webdav calendar from a https source which has a self signed cert, you will be prompted every time it reloads, whether you want to accept the cert or not. Yes thats right, even if you click accept cert permanently, the DE is incapable of understanding it. This has been outstanding for a while, but all recent activity seems to be towards fixing desktop effects or making the kicker work. Its ridiculous.

/rant

Who cares about big, bloated DEs. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 5 years ago | (#26591379)

DWM is where its at.

Crappy article format (1)

ChienAndalu (1293930) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591383)

Here [computerworld.com] is the print version.

It's a little bit frustrating to read because you can't tell the interviewers questions and the answers apart.

Waiting for the next step (0, Troll)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591389)

May 15, 2011

In a recent CNetComputerPCWorldNews article, Linus Torvalds revealed he's recently switched to a Mac - this despite launching a heavily critical broadside against OS X just a few years ago. His reason? He thinks Linux is a 'disaster.' Although it's improved recently, he'll find many who agree with this prognosis, and Linux can be painful to use.

A benefit of a doubt! (2)

A Wise Guy (1006169) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591417)

I was once a KDE user. I loved many aspects of it as much as Linus did. Gnome was easier to use but lacked certain features KDE offered. This was around 5 years ago. KDE4 was released and I read plenty of people's reviews who was forcing themselves liking it. I bet it was related to Linus's Love or liking for it. Today, I was about to give KDE4 another try until I ran into this article. This confirms my earlier experiences such as barfing into a bucket, headaches, nausea. I almost cried! In gnome, we have screenlets, awn, kiba-dock, compiz fusion. The posibilities are endless in creating touchpads with screenlets buttons as executables for certain applications or using awn or kiba-dock on a 65inch HD-television for navigation on your living room setup. It is way more customizable in my own opinion and very fluid at 200fps instead of plasmoids terrible animation of what looks like 3 fps.

It IS a disaster (5, Informative)

Lord Lode (1290856) | more than 5 years ago | (#26591489)

I've used KDE 4.1 for a month. Then I switched back to KDE 3.5, and was the happiest guy in the world to have my good old desktop back! I use Kate a lot for programming C++ and Actionscript projects. In KDE 3.5, Kate rocks. In KDE 4.1, they have, on purpose (by design) ruined the search function of Kate (no whole word option, it doesn't search for the same word in the different open documents), making it unusable for programming (especially refactoring). They have totally made the file managers unusable. No proper working tree. Konqueror can have a tree, but it has the most annoying horizontal autoscroll thing ever (again by design), and you can't drag anything to it. The unzip tool (Ark) is a joke (I've never seen it working). No possibility to have two rows in your taskbar. I *need* to have one row that acts as quick launch for programs, and another row that has the buttons of open windows, one for every window, and only the windows on the current desktop of the multi desktops. Terribly annoying behaviour in file managers and file open/save dialogs, it's so extremely hard, almost an annoying computer game, to select multiple files. Anything from dragging a rectangle around multiple files, to using ctrl + clicking, are all not working properly due to various reasons (such as when beginning to drag the rectangle, it thinks you want to drag 1 file, instead of dragging something around rectangles). Filenames in such lists are clickable everywhere, instead of only on the text of the name, and are in a very wide column by default, which is a second cause for making it hard to drag a rectangle around multiple files. The non-SVG cards in the card games are rescaled in a terribly ugly way, and the SVG card decks all have an ugly design.

But the productivity loss with kate and the file managers is still the worse of all, KDE has become unproductive as hell for me, and I use KDE 3.5 as long as possible.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...